Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Sherman wants to see some throws

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Nov. 15, 2013 at 6:15 am with 89 Comments »
November 15, 2013 1:23 am

Good morning.

Richard Sherman doesn’t want to be tracking receivers all game without the ball coming at him. That’s what happened against Atlanta on Sunday. Matt Ryan didn’t throw at Sherman once, for multiple reasons. Those include constant pressure and Brandon Browner leaving the game.

Still, film shows Ryan hardly even progressed to his read on Sherman’s right side. So, in today’s notebook, we wrote about Sherman not seeing passes come his way lately.

On a separate note, I wouldn’t be surprised by an answer today on Percy Harvin’s availability for Sunday. Initially, I thought it wouldn’t be until game day, but, if he has another full practice Friday, we could hear from Pete Carroll that it’s likely Harvin will play. Stay tuned for that.

Once Harvin’s situation is clarified, we can all finally get back to talking about Andrew Luck.

Links:

> Bruce Irvin tells 710 ESPN the move to linebacker may have saved his career.

> Adrian Peterson says he’s happy for Percy Harvin.

> The Everett Herald writes that special teams will be a big factor Sunday.

> Seahawks.com has Throwback Thursday with pictures of some young chap who looks similar to Pete Carroll.

> NFL Films previews the game.

> The Vikings will be challenged by Seattle’s press coverage.

> The Colts rallied for a win last night against the Tennessee Titans.

> The NFL is considering expanding rules to protect the quarterback even more.

> Ed Reed rejoined Rex Ryan when he signed with the Giants Thursday.

 

Leave a comment Comments → 89
  1. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I wonder if Carroll has plans to use Harvin on special teams? We already have one of the best special teams in the NFL imo. Adding Harvin could take it to another level.

  2. yankinta says:

    GeorgiaHawk,, Pete already said that he won’t use PH for special team this weekend. He did say down the road in a few weeks, he will be using PH for returns though.

  3. HawkFromDay1 says:

    Bwahaha! Excellent point Todd – eager to get past this Percy Harvin distraction to focus on what this blog is all about – the Colts.

    Georgia – totally agree – I love our special teams. As weird as it sounds, I love watching Jon Ryan punt – he always makes it uncomfortable for the other team. And the coverage has been top notch.

    Harvin will definitely return kick offs (from what PC said).

    Golden is overdue to break a punt return too.

  4. yankinta says:

    2013 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS
    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

    Carolina is 1st, Arizona is 2nd and we are 3rd.

    I don’t think Denver will come out of the AFC with 20th ranked Defense….

  5. yankinta says:

    lol, I missed that…. I guess I don’t really read Todd’s Announcements…. mms.. :)

  6. The Colts won last night so there will be no Colts discussion today folks.

  7. yankinta says:

    lol,, yeah I didn’t believe in Ryan Fitzpatrick,, so that’s why I didn’t pick against the Colts this week. But I will be picking against the Colts next week. :)

  8. chuck_easton says:

    Will the team be handing out 5 by 7 glossy’s of Harvin so the fans in attendance can recognize him? Maybe they can put him in a different colour jersey for his first game somewhat like the goaltender in soccer or the designated defensive specialist in volleyball so those of us watching from home can easily identify the elusive and never before seen mythical being that is Percy!

    One game earlier than I thought we would see him. I fully expected December at the soonest. But it will be good to finally put the will he/won’t he debate behind us. Now let’s just knock wood he can keep from getting a nagging hangnail in one of the next 6 regular season games. We don’t want him returning to IR due to a bad manicure or some other ‘serious’ ailment. :)

    Percy needs to prove that his reputation of ‘always being injured’ is not true. I know my friends in California (Bay Area) have a pool going on if he re-injures himself before or during the SF game.

  9. RDPoulsbo says:

    If the league wants more protection, maybe they should stop making rules that encourage more passing, thus creating more chances to hit QBs with more dropbacks. One of their darlings has a broken collarbone and now they have to overreact.

    Sacks and his are up throughout the league. One theory I’ve heard that makes some sense I’d the lack of hitting means less practice for o-linemen learning how to protect. Maybe they should look at that as well.

  10. I am really hoping Percy gets on the field this weekend and shuts some of the people on this blog up. I suppose though that if you think he is ” always getting injured” he will have to play for the rest of career injury free. SMH.

  11. some interesting comments pulled from another site:

    For those people claiming to be football fans saying Seattle doesn’t have any receivers besides Harvin, here’s some interesting statistics for you.
    Seattle is 6th in the NFL in passing TDs with 18.
    Seattle is 4th in the NFL in passer efficiency rating at 104.3.
    Seattle is 2nd in the NFL in yards per pass attempt at 8.5.
    This, despite attempting the 2nd fewest passes in the entire NFL. This despite missing a greater part of their starting OL AND one Mr. Percy Harvin for almost the whole season.
    Granted, Russell Wilson is a really good QB, but he isn’t catching his own passes

  12. raymaines says:

    On this date in ‘Hawk history:

    1976: Jim Zorn passes for two touchdowns and runs for a third, but it isn’t enough as Fran Tarkenton throws a 5-yard touchdown in the fourth quarter to rally the Vikings to a 27-21 victory over the Seahawks in Minneapolis.

    Go ‘Hawks!!

  13. chuck_easton says:

    MNHawk,

    It is a perception that the rest of the country has about Harvin.

    Immediately being injured and missing the first 10 games of the season did nothing to silence that talk.

    You are correct. Harvin is going to pretty much have to go the rest of the year without so much as a cramp if the opinion that he is injury prone and made of glass is to be silenced.

    Fortunately for us he is a fancy new toy when the team already has some very smooth running parts.

    He is not desperately needed but anything he adds will be a major bonus.

  14. RDPoulsbo says:

    I think it has a lot more to do with the current trend offenses want to go to, “elite QB” paired with a “true #1 WR” like a Megatron, Fitz, Bryant, Johnson, etc. and just keep throwing one direction. I’ve hated this model since it started because it rarely wins SBs.

    Seattle doesn’t have a “true #1 WR.” Targets are spread out remarkably evenly. They also don’t have an “elite QB” since Wilson doesn’t throw for 300-400 yards a game. Therefore, people think Seattle’s passing game sucks. The pass protection sucks, but their overall passing game is just fine.

  15. thursday says:

    @MNHawk, same here. The constant mantra of his “fragile” state is tired, overblown and exaggerated.

    “we can all finally get back to talking about Andrew Luck.”

    lmao, good one.

  16. yankinta says:

    No, I disagree with most of you. People say that we have no Elite WR because the Opponent’s DC do not have to double team or have a plan for any one of our WR. Meaning our WR do not warrant a double team every time they line up outside the numbers….

    If you look at Top Receivers and/or Future Hall of Famers like Julio Jones, AJ Green, Reggie Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitz, Jimmy Graham etc, Teams have to usually double team them or pay close attention to them. Now PH will be our first WR that the other DC have to double team or pay close attention to….

    The reason we have Top 10 Passing numbers in the league despite attempting the 2nd fewest passes in the entire NFL, is Because we have a Top 3 QB playing for us.

  17. sluggo42 says:

    The Irvin story to LB is kind of been a low key this year. It’s actually kinda cool, and if he continues to get better there we will really have that #1 pick. He is too small for the Leo slot and is actually a perfect size for outside lb,er. And his speed is way above average. If he ends up being a TE killer, that will be a huge defensive gain. Obviously nobody likes using a 1 for a LB, but if he grows into a monster, then it’s eventually a solid pick. And first round picks are always second guessed anyways, unless it’s a 15 year all-star. But I like it. It’s kinda like Christine, not so much this first year, but in the next year or two, watch out. This team has lots of young budding possibilities for the next few seasons to continue our 10-year run of Super Bowl level of excellence.

  18. Dukeshire says:

    MNHawk – He has missed 19 games in 5 seasons. His rep for “always” being injured is earned, sadly, because he’s a ridiculous talent.

  19. ChrisHolmes says:

    Good stats there @LVHawk. Nice find.

  20. ChrisHolmes says:

    “Seattle is 2nd in the NFL in yards per pass attempt at 8.5.
    This, despite attempting the 2nd fewest passes in the entire NFL.”

    I really like that stat. It shows we’re pushing the ball down field, which Russell seems to do pretty well. And guys are making some yards after the catch, which always helps.

    Scary to think what Wilson could do behind a line that gives him time to read through his progressions.

  21. MikeFromNewJersey says:

    I dont think we will see much of Percy on special teams for the simple fact, there aren’t many kickoff returns anymore. Golden is going nowhere on punt returns so he won’t be bumped. So even if you put Percy back returning kicks, he may only get maybe one chance a game because pretty much every kick is a touchback with the new rules.

    Also I think Irvin is going to turn out to be one of the best OLB’s in the league by this time next year, right up there with Clay Mathews. I really think Pete is holding him back on purpose, they rarely use Irvin as a outside blitzer when he plays LB in base formations. I think they saving him for the playoffs and don’t want to show too much of it in the regular season.

  22. RDPoulsbo says:

    In your list yank, I count 1 SB ring and it took how many playoff chokes before Manning got it right? Not to mention he also had Harrison and the most credible running game he ever had. Maybe these guys will land in the HoF, but it’s not a consistent model if you want to win a SB.

    Maybe it puts fans in the seats, but it doesn’t win SBs. In the meantime, talking heads will keep trying to call Tony Romo as an elite QB because they follow this model.

  23. yankinta says:

    huh?? what list?? I don’t get it…

  24. SlickToxic21 says:

    I hope Percy does get in this week’s game, even if just for a dozen snaps or so…..gives him some time to recover if he needs it, with their bye week coming up. Plus then he’s ready for the New Orleans, San Fran HFA deciding games.
    Also, if the man’s going to get injured, then we still have time to continue our progress without him. Percy is a luxury at this point…I believe we can still win the SB without him.
    I also wonder if Pete and Co. are wanting to “save” him for the late stages of the season, so no one has tape on all of their different plays that involve him.

  25. Sorry Chuck_Easton, but Percy Harvin doesn’t need to prove anything to anyone. He can play 9 games a year as far as Im concerned. Haven’t had a game breaker like him since #84 from the Buckeye state. The last jersey I owned in fact, was Joey Galloway’s. I think I might still have it lol… #12thMan

  26. yankinta says:

    I sort of agree with MB9,, lol. Only because I think he will play more than 9 games a year. I LOVE this move by our FO. Absolutely love it!! :)

    RDPoulsbo,, I think you misunderstood my post at 8:49AM. Maybe you should re-read…

  27. Let’s all play a game, folks. We’ll call it ID the “Elite” QB.
    One of these QB’s is a consensus “elite” QB.
    The other is just a winner with ice in his veins. 2013 stats.

    QB 1 CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT
    194 340 57.1 2,256 6.64 13 81 6
    FUM QBR RAT
    3 56.9 82.7

    QB 2 CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT
    163 257 63.4 2,132 8.30 17 80 6
    FUM QBR RAT
    6 59.5 101.8

    One of these QB’s is Russell Wilson, the other Tom Brady.

    BTW, QB 2 had a higher passer rating than QB 1 last year, also:
    100 to 98.7.

    Interesting fact I discovered just now, Tom Brady has posted a 100 or better QB rating only 3 times in his Hall of Fame career. RW, if he keeps playing at this pace, is about to make it 2 for 2, 2 – 100 passer rating seasons in his first two years. Luck nor RGIII can not claim that. And he will demolish the most wins in first 2 years record also. Has 20 wins already, and needs 22 by the end of the year.
    Now all he needs is those RINGS.
    Russell Wilson, Super Bowl MVP: has a nice RING to it.

  28. Russell Okung has missed at least 18 games in four seasons. I don’t really hear people on this blog always referring to him as injury prone like they do Harvin. The migraine thing is what he is known for nationally even though he only missed a game or two from that. Sorry but all of the Harvin haters and the dismissive way they talk about him on this blog bug me. I think he will go down as our best receiver since #80.

  29. please excuse my cut/copy/paste editing skills…

  30. Percy will elevate this offense to new heights. The flexibility and versatility that he provides will confound defenses due to his ability to line up outside, in the slot, and in the backfield. We can reach into the goody bag and come up with lots of tasty plays when we motion Percy.

    Richard Sherman mentioned in one of his interviews that our D made a concerted effort to stop Harvin last year, with specifically designed packages and schemes to slow him down. We succeeded in slowing Harvin down, in part because he sprained his ankle, but then All Day torched us maybe because we were paying PH too much attention. I wouldn’t mind Beast Mode running loose because the Viks D is paying Harvin too much attention.

  31. yankinta says:

    loved it and absolutely agree with CCVI!! Totally agree with MNHawk too. :)

  32. seaturkeys says:

    Ed Reed joined the Jets.

  33. ChrisHolmes says:

    Great passing stats don’t equate to rings, sadly.

    I grew up a Dan Marino fan. I just loved the way he played the game. Fast release, laser accurate, punished defenses that tried to blitz him, picked defenses apart if they tried to sit back in coverage… But he never had a running game or a defense. He never got his ring because of it.

    Football, more than any other sport, is a total team game. You can’t just ride one superstar to the championship and win it.

    We have a great QB and a great “team”. Here’s hoping it works out this year.

  34. The injury prone label was attached to Harvin not just for missing games and his migraines, but for constantly having nagging injuries. He played through much if those, which speaks to his toughness. The issue is more durability than being injury prone, to be precise.

    Hes also been dogged by accusations of being a malcontent since HS. Not to mention all the whispers…

    Now, im not one to pay pay too much attention to rumors, but with that much smoke theres likely some flames…

    Yes, Harvin has much to prove in Seattle. His past performance means nothing. He will be judged– at least by me– on what he does as a Hawk, on and off the field.

    And yes, Okung has been injury prone. Its a problem. Its not a subject I want to dwell on, as I think hes much more integral to our offensive success than Harvin will ever be.

  35. Mike McCormack, whose lengthy NFL career included a stint as Seattle’s interim coach in 1982 and then as general manager and president from 1983-88 — which included the team’s first playoff seasons — died today.

    The Carolina Panthers, a team McCormack later helped build, made the announcement a short time ago.

    McCormack took over coaching duties of the Seahawks during the strike season of 1982 after the team’s initial coach, Jack Patera, was fired after two games. McCormack led Seattle to a 4-3 record.

    He then became GM and president during the first six years of the Chuck Knox coaching era, which included the run to the AFC title game in 1983 and a 12-4 season in 1984

  36. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Totally agree ChrisHolmes. I remember watching Marino throw darts all over the field. He was almost always the best QB on the field, but at the end of many games, the Dolphins would lose. Similar situation with Elway. As Seahawks fans we saw plenty of Elway and were often on the losing side. It wasn’t until Elway had a strong running game that he won the Superbowl, near the end of his career. P Manning had nice running game the year they won it all. With Wilson, we have a great QB as well as an incredible leader. Beast mode makes a huge difference and as the weather turns worse, will come into play all the more. This is a very solid team. They have talent, heart, skill and desire. This looks like the best overall mix of talent and experience I’d say we’ve ever had. Let’s go 10-1 in two days!!

  37. chuck_easton says:

    MNHawk,

    You must not have been around a couple of years ago when Okung couldn’t stay on the field for more than 3 games without re-injuring himself.

    He got away from that by playing every game last season and making it to the Pro-bowl.

    So, how many games has Harvin played for Seattle since signing that huge contract that paid him a guaranteed 22 million and counts 12.5 million per season against the cap?

    Oh, that’s right ZERO. And how many regular season games has Harvin missed since signing with Seattle? 10.

    And why did Harvin miss those 10 games? An injury. So if Harvin has missed 100% of the games played due to injury how does that not indicate an issue with injuries?

  38. chuck_easton says:

    So I stand by my statement. If Harvin wants to break the label that he can’t stay healthy he needs to come back and play the remaining games this season. He needs to actually start next year on the active roster. He needs to play more games than he misses.

    Until then he has rightfully earned that label. Harvin hasn’t done squat for my favorite team other than take 22 million, count 12.5 million towards the cap that could go to re-negotiate contracts of guys that actually PLAY (Sherman, Thomas, Tate, Baldwin…), and generally not contribute anything towards the current status of the team.

    So yes, I’m waiting for him to put up and shut up.

  39. Elite is defined by a lot more than passing stats. SB rings is pretty much a requirement also. But there are lots of intangibles, like being able to elevate everyone around you, who may not be anywhere near elite. Look at what Brady has done this year with a bunch of no-name WR’s. And being elite means being able to take the game on your shoulders and find a way to win. RW certainly has shown that more than once.

    I have no doubt RW can be an elite QB but really, he I cannot call him elite at this point in his career.

  40. trout_hound says:

    Harvin’s reputation for never playing was a bit compounded by the Purps putting him on IR last season when he probably only would have been out a few weeks due to his growing spat with the coach. I’m totally excited to see “flash” out there for the first time. He’s going to be on fire to show the Vikings that they suck for treating him badly. I predict Bevill will use him in the slot as a decoy a few times, then maybe get him a couple of slants and/or a WR screen to see what he can do once he shows he is in game shape. Maybe have him light things up on a go route. Hopefully he holds up, because after the bye, we’ll see what he can really do.

  41. Chris, there was a reason I compared Wilson to Brady, and not, for example, Philip Rivers or Matthew Stafford. I would much rather have a QB with modest stats that wins championships over someone with prolific stats and no rings. Wilson’s QB rating shows that it’s not really about the prolific yardage. The most important stats for a QB to measure how efficient and dynamic he is, you look at TDs, Ints, and YPA. The total passing yardage is not as important.
    I look at it as fine dining vs buffet.
    In other words: Quality over quantity.

    Brady has had more statistically prolific years since 2007 compared to his earlier years, but hasn’t won any championships since then because their team wasn’t as balanced.

    I specifically compared Wilson to Brady because that’s who I want him to emulate. But more younger Brady than older Brady.
    Clutch, fearless, and a winner.
    And you’re right, we do have a great D and a good cast around him.

    Time will tell if he can hoist that Lombardi for the city of Seattle.
    For someone as tireless and relentless as he is, and as young as he is,
    you have to say that the future is looking bright for us.

  42. Chuck I don’t know where you mean by “not been around a couple of years ago”. Seattle? This blog? If it’s one of those you’re right. I’ve lived in MN since 1999 and I only stumbled on this blog at the beginning of last year. I have been a Hawk fan since ’76 though and due to the inventions of TV and the internet, following the team is not that difficult. I also was lucky enough to follow Harvin his whole career so I guess we look at it from different perspectives. His has been healthy and dynamic much more than he has been injured. You may have missed 100% of his games but have seen him light teams up and break games open. With any luck I will again soon.

  43. RDPoulsbo says:

    Exactly ChrisHolmes. Now that type of game is spreading through the league in spite of having a long history of failure. Does anyone here really believe Calvin Johnson, AJ Green or Dez Bryant are going to lead their teams to deep playoff runs? As I’ve said before, there’s too many things that have to go right on any given play to be consistent enough and sustain winning, especially through the playoffs. All this for 5-6 touches a game on average.

    It’s pretty shocking to me that with the salary cap, GMs continue to shell out huge contracts for these kind of guys for so little production. Compare top WR and top RB contracts and you can see where the real value is, especially compared to the amount of production you get per offensive play.

    I was never a big fan of the Harvin trade, but I’m not a hater either. He’s going to have an impact playing out of the backfield as well so that should bring up his touches per game. Still, Tate has shown he can do much of what Harvin can in terms of YAC but at a much lower cost.

  44. “MNHawk – He has missed 19 games in 5 seasons. His rep for “always” being injured is earned, sadly, because he’s a ridiculous talent.”

    Um, no. It’s 20 now, but Chuck, and I assume you are as well, was talking about his reputation for being injury prone coming INTO this year. You can’t logically use games he’s missed THIS YEAR to back up that claim. He missed 10 games his first 4 years for an average of 2.5 games a year. I wouldn’t call a 184-190 pound player that gets the ball a lot injury prone for missing 2.5 games a year. Also, it is rumored that he could’ve came back last year if it was just a matter of health. The tag coming into 2013 stemmed primarily from a bunch of idiots that didn’t like him missing practice and/or game time with migraines IMO. As someone on this blog has said a few times, if you don’t like the decisions the owner makes then go out and buy a team of your own. Right. ;-)

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12569/percy-harvin

    “Now, im not one to pay pay too much attention to rumors, but with that much smoke theres likely some flames…”

    This is obviously sarcasm, right?

  45. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Great point RDPoulsbo. Calvin Johnson had a monster, record setting year with almost 2000 yards, yet the Lions ended up 4-12 last year, last in their division. Takes so much more than one stud receiver. Need solid team around it.

  46. Denver’s offense is scary good, and KC’s D is plain scary, but there is no other team in the league with the balance the Seahawks have on Offense, Defense, and Special Teams. Football outsiders DVOA back that up, as we are the only team ranked in the top 10 in all three categories. O-#8/D-#3/ST-#2.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2013/week-10-dvoa-ratings

    Brian Billick usually dogs the Hawks, but his article highlighting Toxic Differential shows that we are the most explosive team that allows the fewest explosive plays while having the best turnover differential. Philly has way more explosive plays, but also gives up way more.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000281155/article/toxic-differential-favors-seattle-seahawks-philadelphia-eagles

    Interesting stat, for those of you around for that brutal 1992 offense.
    Lead by the likes of Stan Gelbaugh, Dan McGwire, and Kelly Stouffer, that year’s Seahawks offense, especially passing offense, still ranks as the worst offense of the last 20+ years.

  47. Dukeshire says:

    Recievers are complimentary pieces, not foundations. That’s a concept some, like Tim Ruskell, do not understand.

  48. MoSeahawk12 says:

    I saw that 92 team in person many times and that was the worst offense I’ve seen. Dan McGwire was as bad a QB as I’ve seen. Hell, the whole group were terrible. Cortez Kennedy was about the only thing worth watching during that time. Really incredible that he won Defensive MVP on that awful 2-14 team. He was a stud x10.
    For you newer or younger fans.
    http://beforeitsnews.com/sports/2012/02/seahawks-cortez-kennedy-elected-to-pro-football-hall-of-fame-1720459.html

    http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/2012/7/31/Hall-of-Fame-Cortez-Kennedy-1992-MVP-Season/

  49. With the emphasis on the running game and Wilson’s ability to effectively distribute the ball to everyone (unlike Kapernick), WRs are complimentary pieces on the Seahawks.

    However, there is a disconnect with the philosophy of this team on the field vs how the front office has constructed player contracts. The cap money taken up this year by Rice, Miller and Harvin (near $30m?) is just ridiculous compared to how these players are utilized within the scheme of the team.

    And with Harvin, his longest play from scrimmage is just 53 yards which isn’t game breaker type numbers.

  50. Those 3 count as 25.6 mil against the 2013 cap. Miller had his contract set up to be big in 2013 and then it goes back down dramatically. Harvin counts only as 4.9 mil in 2013. 13.4 mil in 2014 if they keep him. Rice will count 2.4 mil against 2014 after they cut him.

  51. The percentage of their money spent on receivers is a product of their young football team. It’s not what I would call “rediculous” It has to do with having a QB, star defensive backs, and others still on their rookie contracts. It’ll have to change over time. Then it will be up to PC and JS to make that work. It will be quite the challenge for them but judging by what they’ve accomplished so far, I’m betting they can do it.

  52. 92 was my first year following the Hawks. I deserve a Scooby Snack for not being scared off by that pathetic offensive display. All-time awful.

  53. SandpointHawk says:

    I had season tickets in ’92, 350 miles each way and I made every home game…How could you not love those lovable losers? My first game in the dome and the wave started up, I though it was an earthquake happening, but oh my goodness Cortez alone was worth the 700 mile round trip… Go Hawks.

  54. I think Pete Carroll is all in on this season. That’s why the Percy Harvin signing and the extra defensive linemen. He knows it will be hard in the long run to keep this thing together. So they need to win it now while everyone is still here then figure out later how to make it work into the future. With a QB like Russell Wilson to build around I bet they will be able to pull that off too. But this is the year to get it all going and I’m loving it.

    Can’t wait to see Percy in action. I think the combination of Harvin, Tate, Baldwin, and Kearse will be the most dynamic receiving core in the NFL. They will be doing some great and exciting things and Russell doesn’t have to throw 45 or 50 times a game to make it happen like other big time QBs do.

  55. Dukeshire says:

    bbmate – “…if you don’t like the decisions the owner makes then go out and buy a team of your own.”

    I challenge you to find where I have ever criticized the Harvin signing. What I am saying is that his reputation for being oft injured is well earned. From missing whole games, to being pulled from games, to being game time decisions is something he’s dealt with his whole career. And it’s not a slight to his character, as you said, he’s a smaller guy. I’m in total agreement with Chuck regarding this. You don’t have to agree, but you also don’t have to be an ass about it either. That’s another poster’s purview on this blog.

  56. I was referring to Chuck when I made the comment about buying your own team. It was a failed attempt at sarcasm and wit. Obviously it wasn’t as clear as I thought it would be. I still think it is misleading to give the 19 or 20 missed game stat if we’re talking about his reputation before this year, but feel free to disagree. Not trying to yank yer chain. BTW, Luck is only a #13-14 QB!

  57. chuck_easton says:

    Nate,

    I don’t mind the team signing Harvin. I mind the fact that he has contributed zero and is getting paid that much. The team signed him with the idea that they would have someone actually out on the field.

    I’m more upset with the fact that Harvin is getting paid so much to never play a single snap. I’m hoping that changes soon, and I’m hoping he comes out like gangbusters.

    But I can also say the majority of the country is just waiting for his next injury.

  58. Fair enough. I would point out that the majority of the country are idiots IMO, but there ya go. My one significant qualm with the trade is his size and the potential for injury. I don’t give 2 spits that he’s getting paid while injured though. Plenty of players are getting underpaid. That’s how it goes.

    P.S. If you believe I’m too harsh in saying that the majority of people are idiots then I refer you to these polls.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/feb/16/20040216-113955-2061r/?page=all

  59. montanamike2 says:

    My overall concern is how Harvin affects whether we can re sign Tate, i don’t want to lose him. Perhaps he’ll be content if we win it all.

  60. All salaries affect the others, but I don’t think that’s a big issue anymore now that Rice is hurt and almost certain to be cut. I don’t see anyone giving Tate more than 7 mil a year. At this point anyways. And they can still cut Harvin after the year if they wish.

  61. chuck_easton says:

    I don’t see anyone giving Tate more than 7 million a year. I know Seattle can’t afford to give him more than that. I also think Rice will only be back on this team if Tate goes elsewhere and Rice then agrees to a salary reduction.

    The concern is what Tate THINKS he’s worth, and if he wants to test the market. Then all it takes is one desperate team (SF) to pony up the big payday.

  62. montanamike2 says:

    I think Tate will seek playmaker money.

  63. montanamike2 says:

    Is he a RFA?

  64. chuck_easton says:

    No, Tate will be a full UFA. I also think he want to be a #1 and will be looking for that 10-12 million payday. He won’t get it in Seattle.

    Our only hope is that nobody else thinks he’s worth it.

  65. Tate is a UFA. Baldwin is a RFA.

  66. chuck_easton says:

    Baldwin will be an RFA and I think they will tender him as high as a 2nd rounder.

  67. They always could franchise tag Tate for 10.5 mil, but I’d be totally shocked.

  68. RDPoulsbo says:

    No, I don’t like paying WRs big bucks, so it shouldn’t surprise you if I say they shouldn’t pay Tate too much north of $5 mil per year. It will be interesting how free agency plays out for the Hawks next year at WR with everyone expecting Rice to be cut, Tate a UFA and Baldwin an RFA. Suddenly, the top of of the depth chart will be gone or at least exposed to leaving.

  69. The Hawks really have to offer Baldwin a 2nd round tender if they expect to keep him. The tender level below 2nd round is original draft status which means the Hawks would get no compensation as he was undrafted. 2nd round tender is 2.023 mil for 700k more than the original round tender.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_free_agent

  70. I’d be willing to go to 6-7 mil on Tate, depending on how he plays the rest of the year. I think there’s very little chance that Baldwin isn’t here in 2014. I doubt any team is going to be willing to part with a 2nd round pick and pay Baldwin more than the Hawks would be willing to match.

  71. Dukeshire says:

    bbnate – Fair enough and I got ya now.

  72. raymaines says:

    I don’t want to actually look it up, but wasn’t most of Harvin’s time off due to the headaches that he seems to now have under control?

    BBMate: 15 yard personal foul for the “idiot” link. Late hit, out of bounds.

  73. ug Tate to SF would be flat our scarry!!! please NO!!!

  74. Sad news about the passing of Mike McCormack. He meant a lot to this franchise, whether today’s Seahawks fans know it or not.

    My Dad loved him, and the job he did as interim coach. He wanted him to be chosen as Coach, but was happy with Knox.

    McCormack wanted to stay Coach too, but Nordstrom told him he needed him as GM. McCormack really turned the team around and brought the players together.

  75. Considering Rices play as a Hawk–not to be confused with his stats–while making 7-8 million a year, I would say Tate is worth a good bit more. Hopefully he settles for a good bit less, though.

    I still think its idiocy to pay Harvin so much money. It’s just silly to pay that much in picks and salary to a guy who’s less than 6′ and 200 lbs who’s missing games every year but one. Tate has been more durable than Harvin.

    Whatever. If Harvin turns into a star and so does Tate, and Tate re-signs with us, I will be pumped.

  76. Bbmate–look, there has been a lot of talk regarding Harvin since college. As I said, I don’t believe everything said regarding players, but when it’s persistent, I tend to wonder. I’ve given the benefit of the doubt to guys like Lynch and Clemons, so far so good. I hope Harvin is the same way.

    Now, care to put the knives away? It’s getting old getting attacked passive-aggressive style every time you disagree with part of my comments. It used to be interesting to discuss our differences, but lately you seem to be just looking for the last (snarky) word.

  77. ChrisHolmes says:

    Sorry I wasn’t in on this thread consistently today. Just a few thoughts:

    a) I think Dukeshire hit it on the head: Receivers are complimentary parts, not cornerstones. History has proved this time and again, and I think it will continue to be so. And I think PC and Bevell understand this, as they run an offense that is run-oriented and spreads the field in the passing game (well, I’d say we have a two-part passing game really: run-action oriented, and then spread concept with multiple targets). In an offense like ours, you don’t need Larry Fitzgerald or Megatron, but you do need some guys who can win one-on-one. And fortunately, we have those guys. Harvin jut adds another weapon like that. Very dynamic, very explosive, and that’s how our passing game is geared.

    b) “I specifically compared Wilson to Brady because that’s who I want him to emulate. But more younger Brady than older Brady.
    Clutch, fearless, and a winner.
    And you’re right, we do have a great D and a good cast around him.”

    Oh no, I totally understand why you made that comparison. I would have made the same one. And I agree with you totally, 100%. I want Wilson to emulate the Brady’s and Mannings of the world.

    When Wilson came to camp last year and I kept reading about his voracious study habits, all I could think about was Peyton Manning. I mean, Manning’s study habits are legendary. Wilson seems to exhibit the same kind of internal drive and desire to be great, and he couples that with gifted talent, skills, and great study habits. He is the TOTAL package for a QB (minus the height that the talking heads seem to care so much about, but might be rethinking right about now…).

    I love Wilson because of his intangibles. Because he studies hard, wants to learn, wants to be great, and actually puts in the time and effort to do that. And he’s self deprecating and spreads the accolades to his teammates. He’s a class kid all around. Great leader.

    He’s everything I’ve ever wanted in a QB.

    We’re fortunate. Very. And I think this team is special and has a chance to do special things.

    And maybe more than anything, because I’ve followed Pete’s story since his New England days, I’d love for him to get a ring. He really took to heart everything that happened in his first foray into the NFL, and he concocted a plan if he ever got a 2nd chance. His thoughts and ideas changed and adapted based on those experiences.

    You don’t see a lot of guys get 2nd chances in the NFL because they won’t change. They won’t adapt. Coughlin is about the only other guy I can think of, offhand, to adapted his 2nd go-around. And he won 2 Superbowls because of it.

    Pete… grew as a head coach, I believe. Now he’s getting a chance to implement his ideas and they’re working. If they go all the way, he’ll have deserved it. And the FO for giving JS a chance to work with him. JS has been key.

  78. raymaines says:

    The two people who never seem to get enough credit for their Seahawk related activities are Russel Wilson’s parents. Those are two really awesome people! The world could use about a zillion more people like Mr. & Mrs. Wilson.

  79. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Receivers being complimentary parts and not cornerstones has been pretty much a no brainer for a long time. Nothing new to me or anyone else that’s been following the NFL for the last several decades.

    And you can say the same thing about RBs too.

  80. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Agree raymaines.

  81. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Good post ChrisHolmes.

    I think Wilson has some of the drive of Tom Brady, And some of the work ethic of Peyton Manning, and some of the elusiveness of Fran Tarkenton, and some of the coolness of Joe Montana, and some of the toughness of Brett Favre.

    We are very fortunate.

  82. Hey guys, I don’t know much football, all I know I learn here from y’all, but I do know grammar and I think the word you all want is “complementary player”. Otherwise you are talking about someone who is simply giving lots of props to his teammates.

    OK, back to the regular scheduled programming….

  83. Wr’s can’t throw their own passes, but neither can Qb’s catch their own passes. Having watched 29 years of football, and seeing the trend towards 60/40 passing in the NFL, I can tell you good Wr’s MATTER! But it’s more about building a corps of guys who work well together than it is about finding one great Wr and some scrubs.

    And PC’s insistence on the run has at times held us back. The problem we have is the line. With Lynch, RW, and our WR corps, we need a line good in run blocking and avg in pas pro to dominate. What we have is a crap line that is awful beyond belief in pass pro, and inconsistent at run blocking, avg slightly above avg.

    Discounting great WR’s seems to be flavor of the month for armchair GM’s, which is funny. Look at how many SB’s Brady has won since the Pats devalued WR’s, and would only spend real cash on…well, no one…then when they stopped winning, only on Moss…then No one…besides which , how many SB’s have been won in the last 15 years by run-first teams with great defenses?!

  84. MoSeahawk12 says:

    As I once mentioned, you have totally lost your joy in watching this team. These guys are 9-1, soon to be 10-1. Something you or I or any Seahawks fan has EVER seen. Yet you are completely overrun by the short comings of the O-line, the best free safety in the entire NFL and you are not able to enjoy this historic season. It’s pretty sad actually and I feel bad for the people close to you that probably don’t follow or enjoy football on any level because they see what it has done to you. If you could step back five feet and look at the body of work that has developed in the past four years, surely you could gain an inch of satisfaction from what this franchise has turned into based on it’s historic level of disappointment it has given you, me and the rest of us in the past. These guys are achieving things that none of us have ever seen, yet all dreamed about. You stew in the negative moments that not one guy in that locker room acknowledges. I find it so sad as I’ve been rooting for and hoping one day my favorite team the Seattle Seahawks would be the best, the World Champions. Yet you spend so much energy insulating yourself for the worst. Hey, we all chose how we want to be a fan. We bitch, complain and always have better ideas than the guys getting paid to do the job. Sometimes, it is actually OK to step back and look at the body of work and realize, this team is doing the right things, winning the right games, and leading in the important standings. First place in the ENTIRE NFC. They continue to play Seahawks way, they EARN home-field throughout. Don’t overlook that and miss it because you are so disenchanted with the past 29 years of being a fan. YOU and I have never Experienced this level of success watching this team. Don’t ruin the moment, by being hyper critical about everything, that every team has and has to deal with. I’m not trying to bag on you, but seriously, you’ve waited a really, really long time to be able to watch your team succeed like this. You probably couldn’t even imagine having this record and being this close. Don’t waste the rest of this season trying to match paint samples with each other. THIS IS WHY we CARE. Find 20, 30, 60 seconds to enjoy this situation. It is RARE.

  85. Mo–dude, you’re the one who’s lost their grip. Seriously, you have no clue. I pick and choose what comments to leave, and generally, I only post when I strongly disagree with someone.

    But that has little or nothing to do with my thoughts, behavior, or temperament outside this blog. None of you know me, so I will forgive you that. Also, often when I say something, it’s taken down the road ten miles by homer fans like you who invent their reality every minute out of whole cloth, yet deny the truth of the moment if it interferes with their world view.

    Earl Thomas is an often sloppy tackler with awful technique; he is not worthy of DPOY, IMO, but he’s a fine player who deserves a Pro bowl spot. Our line played well vs TB and ATL, but lousy vs 8 other teams–what else can you say? PH has yet to play down; I’m reserving judgement for now, but so far he’s a worse investment than Deion Branch.

    With an avg online, this team would be unbeatable.

    Ive enjoyed the past couple weeks, but the season still hangs in the balance. For you this is merely fun and entertainment, for me its much more; it’s my great passion. I don’t expect you to understand, but I do expect you to keep your opinions regarding my style of fandom to yourself, or face my analysis of your simple-minded fandom, which I guarantee you wont enjoy.

    I was quite happy about the current state of the team, until you and bbmate felt the need to inform me that I was miserable, simply because I don’t see things your way. I feel sorry for folks like you whose invented reality is so fragile that any dissenting voice threatens your peace of mind and sanity…

  86. People are ragging on our WR corps, which in my opinion is top-10, improving rapidly to top-5, yet they make excuse after excuse for our O-line, which is bottom-3 in the league.

    Our WR corps is two UDFA’s and one second round pick (and an IR’d FA) and they have outplayed a line of one top-5 pick, a first rounder, a second rounder, a third rounder, two sevenths, a sixth, and a couple FA’s…why the denial of how bad the line is, and yet the bagging on Tate and the rest continues…

  87. “Wr’s can’t throw their own passes, but neither can Qb’s catch their own passes. Having watched 29 years of football, and seeing the trend towards 60/40 passing in the NFL, I can tell you good Wr’s MATTER! But it’s more about building a corps of guys who work well together than it is about finding one great Wr and some scrubs.”

    I totally agree with this, STTBM. No passive-aggressiveness or snark there.

    Look, I have no idea whether or not you’re a miserable individual. You just come off like that many times on the blog IMO. And me and Mo are hardly the only ones here to say it. If many people have the same impression about you, then maybe it’s worth considering it’s validity? Maybe you just use this site primarily as an outlet to vent? I made the posts about you seemingly being unable to enjoy the ride because I genuinely felt bad for you if this was the case, whether you believe that or not. I could certainly be wrong, and whether or not you are miserable ultimately doesn’t affect me one bit. You have to live with yourself, not me. It has nothing to do with me worrying about you affecting my world view.

    I don’t disagree with you that the O-line is bad, although I believe you are severely hyperbolic about it. Especially when you factor in the injuries. But this is not my point. No matter how right someone is, a broken record is a broken record. Repetitive and annoying. ACIB was right about Aaron Curry. Still extremely annoying. Yank is right about much of what he has said about Luck IMO. Still annoying to bring it up every day unprovoked on a Seahawks blog.

    I agree that ET could get better in his tackling technique, but you choose to consistently focus on the flaw/s of one of the best players on the team and in the league. This is your style. I wonder why people perceive you as negative?

    “Our WR corps is two UDFA’s and one second round pick (and an IR’d FA) and they have outplayed a line of one top-5 pick, a first rounder, a second rounder, a third rounder, two sevenths, a sixth, and a couple FA’s…”

    Again, you don’t help your cause when you distort reality. Okung was picked 6th. Moffitt is long gone and retired. Though he would’ve been better than Sweezy, right? Okung has missed most of the season. Unger has been banged up most of the year and missed games. But I guess this doesn’t factor into how the line has played. Get real.

  88. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Ok. your reaction tells me all I need to know, It’s football man. I’m not judging. Your rage is seriously misplaced and I feel for the ones close to you. It’s Seahawks football. It’s been a very long , frustrating time. I get it. I’ve been following this team since I was ten years old. I get up every day and will only shower with a green towel. I have never down played another fan as what they do to get through the week. You simply state that it’s great entertainment for me. I have altered my life for this team and every team for the past thirty plus years. It’s stupid and has actually never done anything to help this team win or lose. I understand that and yet I still follow I very strict process that in my mind helps these guys win games. I went to Steve Largent’s retirement party. There were only about six thousand tickets for the event, but me and a buddy drove eighteen hours to be there and shake hands with the best receiver ever on the Seahawks and at the time in the entire NFL. It was an honor that I will never forget. I was fortunate to meet Dave Krieg, Curt Warner(my favorite player EVER outside of Walter Payton) and many of the current Seahawks greats. They were all there to honor one of the first and greatest NFL players ever, let alone the greatest Seahawk ever at the time. Way back in 1989. I’ve been on the sidelines with these guys. I’ve been in the locker room. When Moon held out I was there. When Cortez was busted for eating hotdogs on the sideline during preseason I was right there with him. He is still my most favorite professional athlete ever. He didn’t know me, but treated me with respect and friendship of somebody he had spent a lot of time with. I have cheered, yelled, cried and loved this team since I was ten years old. Please do not sit here and act like this is a casual existence for me and that it doesn’t matter or mean much to me. I clearly have touched a nerve in you and that has been thrown back on the very screen we all read about our team. I have never questioned your Seahawks hood and many times have indulged your opinion and have offered my take on certain areas to help bring you back, so that you could take a breath and enjoy this team, that you have NEVER seen before. 9-1, soon to be 10-1. My point is this. Be the fan that you want to be. Rag or cheer these guys. Right now they are 9-1. This is uncharted territory. Wins are wins and right now they have nine wins and only one loss. Complain about the O-line, the play of the safety and the ineptness of the entire team. That is obsoletely your right as a fan. But as the season only has six more games, decide at what point you will put all the stuff aside and actually tune into what this team is doing. It would really, really suck to miss this historic run as a fan. None of us have EVER seen this. At the end of the day, I don’t give half a crap how you watch, cheer, post regarding this team. I know, for me, this is as good as it’s ever been. I watch each game like I will never see it again. It means everything to me.

  89. Hey Slave, I understand your point of view and generally agree with many of your opinions. Some people get the wrong idea because generally your posts are long-winded, and you mostly point out weaknesses that the team needs to address.

    But I for one usually agree with 70-80% of what you have to say.
    We all have to admit that even though we are 9-1, we have won ugly a number of times. The main reason for those ugly wins was RW persevering and willing us to victory despite the ineptness of our O-Line. I believe our O-Line can become above avg when Okung, Unger, and Giac come back and gel together again. Plus we have some “cool” depth in Lem, Bailey, and Bowie now.

    I also agree that the PH trade is very much an unknown at this point.
    If he scores even a handful of clutch touchdowns and becomes an essential piece of the offense that makes crucial plays that get us a ring or two, I would say the trade was a success. I love having the explosive potential of Harvin, but wish we could’ve drafted Austin instead, but that was not an option. He would’ve been cheaper and affected our cap and pecking order of our team less, but we’ll see.
    I would be more comfortable giving Harvin around $8 mil a year, that way we could resign Tate for $5-7M and no one would be disgruntled.
    Percy does have street cred, and thereby locker room cred for his playmaking ability and dynamic playing style, and that don’t come cheap.

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