Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Can Carpenter reach his potential?

Post by Eric Williams on June 30, 2013 at 7:40 am with 154 Comments »
June 30, 2013 9:54 am
Seattle Seahawks guard James Carpenter walks off the field Monday, May 20, 2013, following an NFL football Organized Team Activity workout in Renton, Wash. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)
Seattle Seahawks guard James Carpenter walks off the field Monday, May 20, 2013, following an NFL football Organized Team Activity workout in Renton, Wash. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

My story today is the first of an occasional look this offseason at issues the Seattle Seahawks need to address once training camp begins.

Today’s story focuses on the offensive line, specifically the position battles at left and right guard.

The Seahawks are hopeful that James Carpenter can return from offseason knee surgery and wrestle away the starting job from Paul McQuistan at left guard. And at right guard, John Moffitt and J.R. Sweezy continue to battle for the starting job. Getting consistent play at both guard positions is one of the keys to the Seahawks solidifying the offensive line for the upcoming season.

Also, blog commenter Tyler Welch once again has put together a very useful Excel spreadsheet detailing this year’s 90-man roster, which you can check out here. Thanks again Tyler.

Avi Zaleon of the Beaumont Enterprise provides details on Seahawks safety Earl Thomas holding his annual football camp in his hometown of Orange, Texas, including a photo gallery.

Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. identifies Thomas as the player Seattle can least afford to lose besides the obvious choice of Russell Wilson.

Tom Mulhern of the Wisconsin State Journal catches up with Russell Wilson at his passing academy in Madison.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com focuses on the tight end position heading into training camp.

Detroit Lions defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham thinks quarterbacks will eventually get injured running the read option.

Pat Kirwan of CBS Sports has an interesting report on the important of run/pass balance in the NFL.

Len Pasquarelli, filling in for Dan Pompei writing for the National Football Post, has several interesting nuggets in his Sunday Football Blitz.

Rob Rang of NFLDraftScout.com finishes his Finding the Fits series with a look at the Rams.

San Francisco head coach Jim Harbaugh remains intense while waiting for a foul ball with his glove at an Oakland As game.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 154
  1. FairbanksDoug says:

    Eric, the link to your story doesn’t quite go there.

  2. We can only hope that Carp will be what the coaches wanted when he was drafted. Thinking It’s sink or swim time for him

  3. Carpenter and Okung side by side.. by the end of the season can the please please please remind us all just a little bit of Walt and Hutch. Carp still has a lot to learn, but those two could become a real force together by the time next year’s playoffs begin.

  4. And another good think about Carpenter taking over at LG is that McQuistan could move to RT where he could be an upgrade over Breno, I think. McQ has better technique, better balance, more strength, and longer arms than Breno. He should be at RT.

  5. Love the Harbaugh GIF, you expect that in the seconds after the GIF, Jimmy-boy decks the little girl and threatens both her and her distracted father for both being inattentive “slacker fans” instead of devoting their full attention to the game at hand!

  6. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    fairbanks, go to the header and click sports ,hawks/nfl. good write up eric thanks.

    i think Mc Quistan is here for this year at least so carp has a chance to prove he can stay healthy. after that i think some of these younger cheap guys take over. i think Bowie is a good all around lineman and it seems that moffit has got healthy and serious about football. i actually think there is a good chance moffit beats sweezy out at RG this year. although if sweezy wins out i wonder if moffit doesn’t become that swing back up lineman making it possible to release McQuistan. it will be interesting to see who is still here at the beginning of the season.

    have to say when McCoy went down i was very concerned. funny how hearing what miller has to say about the position can make you feel a little better. i see willson as being that deep threat down the seam that we have not had in a long time. my one fear is that he has a problem with drops like a lot of rookies do.

    i have been kicking around the receiver situation and think it will be a wild year. i think tate and harvin will be the go to guys with rice getting his share in big chunk plays. i think the running game with harvin and tate working underneath will get rice the 2-3 big plays a game deep. wouldn’t surprise me at the end of year if rice leads the team in TDs. i think after this year rice is asked to restructure and harvin get’s his garantee and is asked to restructure. it will be interesting to see who leads in catches yards and tds at end of season. me personally i think harvin get’s the catches/yards 75 or so for about 800-1000 , as i said i think rice leads the team with 15 td with most being like the end of the new england game, catch =TD. going to be a fun year. i can not remember the last time i was this excited going into a season.

  7. An interesting look at Height and Arm Length of our O linemen:

    Built to Play C or G:
    Max Unger 6’5″/32″
    John Moffitt 6’4″/33″

    Built to Play OT:
    Russell Okung 6’5″/36″
    McQuistan 6’6″/35.5″

    Tweeners:
    James Carpenter 6’5″/34″
    JR Sweezy 6’5″/34″
    Breno Giacomini 6’7″/32.5″ (very short arms for an OT)

  8. hawkfaninok – No doubt its going to be interesting to see how the WR competition plays out.

    I’m skeptical that Tate will remain a go-to guy for Wilson. Its happened last year, and I was surprised, but I can’t see it happening this year. Harvin will be much more than just a slot receiver this year. He’ll play at RB and I think its likely he’ll play at split end also. Tate could not compete at slot, he doesn’t have the moves, so he could not play anywhere except split end and PR. Harvin can run routes from anywhere.

    Harvin is taller than Tate and shiftier and every bit as fast. He’ll not only play slot but will be an upgrade over Tate at split end whenever they line him up there. I think Harvin is going to reduce Tate’s snaps this year.

    I can see 2-wide sets with:
    Flanker – Rice
    SE – Harvin

    3-wide:
    Flanker – Rice
    SE-Tate
    Slot – Harvin

    4-wide
    Flanker – Rice
    SE – Tate
    Slot – Harvin
    Slot – Baldwin

  9. bbnate420 says:

    No hope for Carp. Way too fat. ;-)

    Stevos, I don’t think McQ is stronger than Breno. The rest of that might be right.

    I’d be very surprised if McQ doesn’t stay with the team in 2013. Remember that they haven’t signed a vet OT to replace Omiyale either. I think McQ is the 3rd OT right now. Maybe a young guy can step up and take it over? McQ can play every o-line position except center. You can’t say that about anyone else on the team.

  10. GeorgiaHawk says:

    My guess is that Carp is closer to 375.

  11. Thank you Tyler Welch!!!

  12. GeorgiaHawk says:

    My bad, I just couldn’t help myself.

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9353190

  13. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Btw, I’m usually at my computer eating chips and drinking beer when I make comments about Carp. Lol.

  14. jawpeace says:

    I agree with the others who said McQ is not going any where this season. No need to cut him to save 3 million in cap space. The team right now has roughly 5 million in space and no real glaring needs to fill. After camp and if we lose a few Hawks to injury, we can still pick up a veteran or two who might get cut later with the 5 mil.

    However I do not see Paul McQ coming back next season. That position will be filled with younger cheaper talent. The 3 million will be a part of Thomas or Sherman’s new contract.

  15. GeorgiaHawk says:

    In 1970 only 1 lineman weighed over 300lbs. Today there are 532.

    http://www.nola.com/running/index.ssf/2013/06/optimum_performance_nfl_lineme.html

  16. bbnate420 says:

    jawpeace, the 3 mil could be rolled over to future caps. There is a reason to save it. It’s not a use it or lose it proposition. I said I think McQ stays, but that’s because he fills a need. We’d be screwed pretty quickly if some o-line injuries hit and we don’t have McQ.

  17. In response to a few people asking where I am in some other discussions, I’m still alive and here, I just don’t post as much… don’t have a ton of time anymore. I’ll be back around for football season. Don’t you fret ;)

  18. I’m kinda hoping that AZ’s WR Michael Floyd doesn’t start out any faster than Larry Fitzgerald did. I don’t know how much longer Fitz can play, but I don’t like the idea of even SEA’s DBs having to cover those two for very long with CP back there. Guess it’ll depend on how good their OL can pass and run-block this season. We don’t get them ’till week 7 at their place, so we should have Clemons, Irvin and Avril at least to pressure their QB. Still, their receiving corps is not a bad one…

  19. Stevos, let me play devil’s advocate a bit. I feel like PC/DB won’t want to put Harvin at SE that much because that decreases the versatility and explosiveness of the offense by taking Golden Tate off the field. And remember that PC was recently quoted as saying they want to get Tate the ball more, not less, acknowledging his playmaking ability.

    PH is a dynamic, versatile player than can be explosive at many different positions, but most effective from the slot where he can create mismatches running the ball, and that’s where I anticipate him receiving the lion’s share of his snaps. And that will also make our offense more potent by having Tate as another weapon lining up outside.

    Harvin is all of one inch taller than Tate, 5’11″ to 5’10″, but Tate outweighs him by 18 lbs, 202 to 184. In fact, Tate weighs exactly the same as Sidney Rice at 202 lbs, and Rice is 6″ taller. That extra mass no doubt helps Tate get leverage when he out-competes DB’s for the ball in the air. Although PH is the more versatile, superior overall player, Golden Tate is the better SE.

    I don’t remember PH making plays as dynamic as GT while lined up outside. If you youtube Harvin, most of his highlights are either runs, returns or explosive plays from short catches he extended, like bubble screens. If you youtube Tate, most of his highlights are of him out-jumping /out-leveraging DB’s and winning on the outside for the ball.
    In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and say Tate is our best wideout at boxing defenders out and fighting for the ball.

    When was the last time you saw even Sidney Rice with all his height, win a jump ball, or wrestle the ball away from someone like Anquan Boldin? You need a combination of ups, mass for leverage, and want-to to fight for the ball outside. Maybe Chris Harper will develop into our own version of Boldin, but right now GT is the best at it and the only proven one on the roster. Even if you’re not totally sold on Tate, you still have to admit that he has an uncanny knack for coming down with the ball in traffic.

    Another thing to consider is that PH has never played a full season, and never had more than 6 TD’s receiving in one year. GT has stayed healthy the past couple years, playing in 31 out of 32 games and had 7 TD’s in his 1st yr starting at SE. He’s also clutch, with all 7 of his TD’s coming when the team was tied or trailing. He’ll only get better and better with experience this year. Let’s give them both a chance to shine in this multi-dimensional offense.

  20. That fool jimbo harbaugh goes jawface like, 24/7. It’s gonna wear everybody down around him at some point. You can not sustain that level of intensity for very long.

    I remember awhile back that his doc ordered him to work less and cut down on caffeine. Eventually, if he keeps it up, either he’ll break down or his team will get tired of it and will tune him out.

    Go Hawks!

  21. Ewalters7354 says:

    Actually Sidney Rice upped his weight to 215 last season.But other than that you’re spot on.

  22. RADEON – remember… you were going to meet me at the Pirates game in Burgh a couple of nights ago? That’s why I asked… checking to see if you were going to be around. Oh well…

    Unrelated – I am on a bus with a guy who was a caddie for Easley. Green. Moyer and Sam Mc… at a Hawks golf outing last year. Something about Hawks charities. He said those guys were nice/awesome. Fun stuff.

  23. Kinda hate the thought of not having Clemons and Irvin for week 2…

  24. Eric, do u see Carp displaying the effort and attitude required to just get back on the field, much less excel? I have never heard reports from insiders noting his hard work and desire, both of which are required to fulfill his potential.

  25. tchristensen says:

    I’d have to agree with Hawkfaninoklahoma on John Moffitt beating out J.R. Sweezy for the right guard spot. Along with his physique, Moffitt seems to have changed his personality this off season and has come back focused and determined. His experience over Sweezy may give him the nod.

  26. I’ve been saying for a while now that the Read Option is going to get some QBs hurt. While it does help that Kaep and Griffin can throw the ball (Newton has the arm but not the brain), once these guys get outside the tackle box, they lose a lot of their Roughing the Passer protection. Eventually, you’re gonna get a Demarcus Ware that’s just going to cue up on the QB every time, letting the rest of the D worry about the pitch or pass. Eventually, you get popped enough you’ll start playing scared I don’t care WHO you are. 2nd year QBs (I only consider Kaep to be in his second year) are going to be even more prone to this.

    Thankfully, RW isn’t used as a Read Option QB like the others. Cunningham’s article didn’t even mention him. We may use the RO on occasion, but for the most part RW is a passer that can run.

  27. CCVI – good points. Either way, it will be fun to watch it play out.

  28. HonHawksLSB says:

    Eric you are Rotoworld’s #1 source for Hawks info. Nice work.

    Another cold weather Superbowl this year, see you in NYC! Much better then Detroit.

  29. ajinoregon says:

    “There are two factors working for McQuistan…He is Seattle’s most versatile lineman…Plus, he has a history with Cable dating back to the pair’s days in Oakland.”

    I’d say, with all due respect Eric, that the best thing he has going for him is that Carpenter has not proved that he can stay healthy for an entire season, and McQuistan is his back-up.

    Like every Seahawk fan, I’m rooting for him to make it. A dominant left-side would be an awesome throwback. But I’m not holding my breath in all honesty.

  30. sluggo42 says:

    Carp is gihugic large. And superhuman strong.

    But if he cannot control his weight and conditioning, he is as good as teats on a board. Talk about a win lose scenario. Him and Okung on the left side will be as good or better thank jones and hutch… Unmoveable objects, guaranteed three yards…just falling forward.

  31. Carpenter has never had a problem with his weight. He’s had an injured and re-injured knee. He wasn’t in great shape as a rookie, but no rookie was in great shape in 2011 because there was no offseason program, but he completed his rehab last year in record time and was in great shape for a guy coming off rehab. The only Seahawks O lineman who had a weight problem last year was Moffitt.

    I was looking up the combine measurements of all our O linemen. Reports have been that Carpenter has focused on getting stronger during this offseason, but that wasn’t always true. At his combine, he had 23 bench presses at 225 lbs. Pretty average.

    When Carp came out of college, Tom Cable was drafting him on potential, not what he had accomplished. He had only played 2 years of major college ball after 2 years of Jr college. Even at this stage of his career, he’s still just a pup. If he stays healthy, we could see him grow up this year into a very different player than last year. (but “better than Hutch” sluggo42? You must be kidding.)

    Strength tests of our O linemen at their scouting combines before their drafts:

    Bench Press Reps at 225 lbs

    Okung 38
    JeanPierre 30
    McQuistan 28
    Carpenter 23
    Moffitt 23
    Giacomini 23
    Unger 22
    Sweezy 21

    2013 rookies:
    Seymour 30
    Bailey 27
    Bowie 19

  32. montanamike2 says:

    Happy Canada day to the folks in the north.
    I think Carpenter is a beast and if he stays healthy this year we will have a dominating left side on the o-line. This is a make it or break it year for him and if he steps up, he makes Pete look even smarter for picking him. If we only wanted good guys we go backwards to the Ruskell era, but i’d still stay away from certain players no matter how much talent may be there. I think we pick up players that will “buy in”, but not the one’s who don’t. I would never draft Dez Bryant or Hernandez but i can see where they might think Kellen Winslow is a bad influence and can ruin chemistry/undermine the team leaders.

  33. sluggo42 says:

    “Better than Hutch”?

    Ok, ok, maybe I got caught up in the moment, but that was speaking best case scenario…
    He has also had two years of professionally guided weight training since college. I’m guessing he does a little better than 23 reps now-a-days. Impresses to see Okung at 38 reps… Now that’s nice…

    Is it a high humidity up there in Seattle today? Down in SoCal here it’s hot and muggy already at 7:00 am

  34. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Two rookies that definitely were not in good shape in 2011 was Carpenter and moffitt.
    Moffitt appears to have finally taken his training and eating habits more seriously of late and has gotten his weight down.

    Hopefully Carp is doing the same because we need them both if for anything solid depth.

    BTW- I don’t buy into the assumption that just because there was no offseason programs players can’t be self motivated and stay in great shape.
    Baldwin and Sherman are two rookies that come to mind that year.

  35. bird_spit says:

    It’s still a cool but humid morning, but around here, when it breaches 75 degrees, it’s hot. Heading to 90+ later today.

    A strong, fearless oline is the secret sauce of our offense. I have trust in Cable to get the best out of these guys. Get ready to see a new Sweezy this year. It’s going to be fun to watch that oline come together this year. Having a healthy Carp would be excellent, but without him, Cable will draw up plan B. No worries…

  36. Georgia – true, there were some impressive rookies in 2011 who came to camp in shape after no OTAs. I remember Baldwin in particular. That dude has discipline.

    I also remember Moffitt in training camp that year soaked in sweat and looking like he was going to puke and pass out. lol.

    92 degrees F in Seattle yesterday, Sluggo. Hot and dry. Players are lucky they are not running gassers at the VMAC this week.

  37. CCVI–Preach it!

    Stevos–Dont get your man-crush on Rice; he’s been a total underachiever except for one year with Favre. The guy just isnt very physical, and he has lost speed. Tate opens a lot of stuff up for him by pulling the safety deep, though Rice returns the favor at times.

    Tate’s a lot better player than you give him credit for, and he’s improving by the week; Rice has peaked and is fading already.

    Harvin is not a great outside WR, period. Tate has the potential to play every single position, as he’s fast enough and has the hops and physicality to play SE, he’s strong enough to play FL, and he’s agile enough to play the slot. Granted, he needs work on his slot routes and learning to split the zone, but he’s improving rapidly at route-running.

    If anything, the Hawks will be likely to try a WR triumvirate of Harvin, Tate, and Baldwin with Harper coming off the bench next year. I could see Tate taking over FL/Slot with Baldwin playing Slot/Fl and Harvin at SE in a year easier than I could see them continuing to pay Rice 8 million a year for mediocre play and letting a young improving playmaker like Tate walk for no compensation.

    Time will tell.

  38. On Carpenter;

    If we get anything out of him other than a couple games of crappy gimpy play it will be a miracle and a bonus. IF he can get in shape and healthy I expect him to be a decent if not spectacular G, a road grader in the run game and a mediocre pass protector at best. But that would be a hell of a lot better than what we’ve seen so far.

    And him showing up out of shape is his own damned fault! He was drafted TWO ROUNDS ahead of where he expected to be, with all that money, and instead of being professional and hiring a trainer and busting his ass to get in shape, knowing there was likely to be no Training Camp, he sat on his fat ass and got even fatter, then sucked and then got injured. Cry me a river, this guy was lazy and pathetic, and wasted his rookie year because he didnt have the self-discipline to do what he knew he needed to do to be ready to play. I guess he was used to having his hand held…

    I hope he shows well, but Im sure not holding my breath.

  39. montanamike2 says:

    I hear you STTBM, dude should have shown up in shape no excuses.

  40. bbnate420 says:

    Bench press is a bit overrated. There are a lot of things that go into overall strength. I’d rather see what the 0-linemen squat. It’s also about technique and footwork. It doesn’t matter if you’re strong as hell if you’re completely off balance.

  41. Since there has been a lot of talk about overrated players – has everyone read the article on NFL.com about all time under and over rated players of each team. (they have not done Seattle yet)

    Some of the teams are good reads – others – not so much!

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000209072/article/alltime-underrated-players-and-overrated-for-every-team

  42. chuck_easton says:

    STTBM,

    I don’t get your man-hate for Rice. He was the #1 receiver on the team last year. He had as many TDs as Tae. Ate hasn’t surpassed him yet. iF he des that this year we can have this conversation in 2014 and you will be ahead of the pack.

    Right now it comes off as you rooting for te bet WR on the team (rght now) to fail just so your man crush Tater can be the man.

    I’m rooting for them both to have a monster season.

    My concern is if Tate does do as great as you think he will, he’s going to price himself right off the team and some other WR desperate team will give him the huge payday that Seattle likely won’t.

  43. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM isn’t impressed with Rice as a player. He’s been rather consistent with that. He likes to make his opinion of Rice well known. Either he thinks you have to get 1,000 yards to be a good WR or he has an amateur scouting report of his own that doesn’t look fondly on Rice. Many here don’t agree. Thus is life. With as many receivers as we have and the fact that I believe they’ll still run the ball at least 50 % of the time, I don’t see any of the receivers getting 1,000 yards. Not without an injury. There’s only one ball.

  44. bbnate–Or perhaps Ive watched Rice closely since his days in Minnesota, and watched him lose speed, get multiple concussions without being hit, and have one reason after another for not producing as he was expected to–and Im not talking just stats. But I suppose in your mind its one or the other, with nothing in between, since you disagree with me….

    I have many problems with Rice, not least of which is his huge pay. He isnt physical enough in my mind to be a number one WR, and he isnt the kind of guy when its third or fourth down and 12, that even when everyone in the world knows he’s getting the ball, he’s gonna make the play, and yet thats the level he’s paid at.

    There were some games he looked very good last year, and others where just when we needed him most, he couldnt get it done. Look, I was thrilled but nervous when we signed him, and my opinion took until after the season to solidify to its present state.

    Dont believe me? Then go back and find my comments that were standing up for him around weeks 8-12. But in the final month plus the playoffs, I felt his play–not just his stats–fell off.

    Now that Tate is FINALLY showing he is beginning to get it, I cant see keeping an older (as in older than Tate) player like RIice who is on the decline and who lacks physicality and elite speed–or even better than average speed–at the expense of a such a dynamic player.

    And while I was stoked when we drafted Tate, I was also a big critic of his performance and attitude early on. However, I also was aware that Tate only played WR for two years before going pro, and that he would likely take 2-3 years to get going (which is what happened).

    Tate had the same number of TD’s as Rice, and his were very hard-earned, dynamic plays the likes of which few players in the NFL could match. Rice’s, for the most part, were not nearly as impressive.

    If anyone bags on Tate unfairly or trumpets the supposed greatness of a player I feel is only slightly above average, then Im going to state my countering opinion, which is what this blog is for. Or at least I thought it was…perhaps its really just a forum for everyone to droolingly agree with the sainted opinions of a few….

    Chuck–I would never root for a player to fail unless he’s someone like Tebow the fake humble or other scumbags like Rapistburger and Ray Lewis–certainly not a guy like Rice who is still a decent player and for all I know has never been in trouble here.

    But Ive already made up my mind that Tate is worth keeping at whatever cost, and that Rice is not the kind of FL this team needs, certainly not at anything close to what he’s being paid. In my mind, he should refund about half what he’s been paid in Seattle. He’s getting paid based on hype and expectations that will never be met because he’s not the player he was before he hurt his hip, shoulder, brain, etc…

    As I said before, Tate is getting better rapidly, and is already one of the more dynamic WR’s in the game, while Rice is slowing and not the all-around top-flight player we all hoped he would be.

  45. Tate was producing more game-changing plays per game than Rice with less opportunity, and making more out of less. Im ready to move on from Rice right now, and I bet the staff is too, its only the cap hit thats kept him safe this far.

    Color me shocked if he’s on the team next year without a drastic pay reduction.

  46. If Tate is the paid the same as Rice then he would be under performing due to pay. He is not worth ANY cost IMO but I would love to see him stay around. Actually I REALLY like the way our WR compliment each other right now – especially if Harper pans out the way we hope.

    Tate and Harvin are “playmakers” Rice has come up big as well at times. and we all know that at times he could have made things happen and Wilson didn’t see him/get him the ball at certain times. It’s not like it would have made him look like Megatron but some of those plays would have really been big.

    I don’t ever see Tate in the slot – they haven’t played him there when we really needed someone there so why would they move him there in the future? Our 5 deep right now (IMO) Harvin, Rice, Tate, Baldwin, Harper (I think he gets the nod over the hold overs due to his unique body/talents) are versatile, good blockers, good receivers, and most can play multiple positions – what more could you want?

    We will start to see – all over the roster – the team having to make tough choices on who to keep and who to let walk – lets hope we can be as good or better than the Pats have been over the last decade on those decisions. If we do, I think we have a potential 3-5 trips to the Superbowl over the next 7-10 years.

  47. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, relax before you blow your aorta dude. Yes, we can have differing opinions on here. When did I say you couldn’t? All I did was give an opinion, but you act like I slapped your mom. And it was one or the other. You don’t think he’s that good because you’ve watched him and formed an opinion, i.e. your amateur scouting report. Amateur wasn’t meant to be demeaning, but I don’t believe you’re a professional scout. Do you get paid to scout NFL players? If not, that makes you an amateur.

    Look, you can think Tate is better than Rice all you want. And we can think the opposite. The objective statistics don’t lean heavily one way or the other. Tate may turn out to be better than Rice, but he isn’t yet IMO. He also has never been focused on by opposing defenses like he’s a number one. Has he? Did teams focus on Rice or Tate for at least much of last year? Tate hadn’t done much going into 2012.

    You seem to talk like your scouting report on Rice is fact. Rice seemed fast enough on that last TD in the NE game. Rice averaged 0.3 yards less a catch than Tate did. You act like Tate is a big play threat and Rice is getting 8 yards a catch. As far as not making tough or important catches, did you see some of the highlight reel catches he made in 2012? The one on the sideline in the playoffs versus Wash? I guess the last play versus the Bears wasn’t either tough or a big play?

    Your comment about the coaching staff only keeping him because of the cap hit is just speculative nonsense. Nothing more. His salary isn’t guaranteed in 2013. The Hawks would save 6.1 mil in 2013 if they released him. Seems like you’d look that up before making that kind of statement.

    Will Rice be here for sure in 2014? Will they keep Tate over Rice? I’ve said a number of times that I don’t know. It depends on numerous factors that will occur during the season. Not sure why you think PC/JS have made up their minds before they have to? But right now I believe Rice is the better receiver. Many people do. You’re hardly part of some overwhelming majority. I’m not saying that you can’t have a minority opinion or that you might not even turn out to be right about some of what you say. But your opinion of Rice is hardly strongly supported by objective data. It’s just your amateur scouting report. Which is fine. We all evaluate players in our own way on here.

  48. nate – I certainly wasn’t saying that bench press is a defining stat of any kind, just an interesting addition to the conversation. Yes of course bench press does not make one player better than another, it just measures upper body strength at a point in time.

    I read a lot of questionable statements on here, and misimpressions people have about players, like “Giacomini is stronger than McQuistan”, or “Carpenter is the strongest man on the team”, or “Carpenter is fat and lazy” etc etc. – things that are just factually wrong. So its always good to take a look at some facts.

  49. bbnate420 says:

    Stevos, I’m not sure those things are factually wrong. It depends exactly how you define overall strength. I don’t think any of us have enough information about the players to say who is just purely the strongest overall. It’d be interesting to see them compete in some of the pure strength events in the World’s Strongest Man competition. I’d say that Breno plays stronger than McQ in the run game from what I’ve seen of them. Just an opinion.

  50. STTBM, I always enjoy your posts, dude, but your Golden Tate man-love is over the top.

    Tate produces “more game-changing plays per game than Rice” ??

    Yeah right. If you throw the ball deep to Tate five times, he’ll catch it once for a TD and make the ESPN highlights. Five passes to Sidney Rice and he’ll gain three or four first downs.

    Golden Tate
    42 games / 101 receptions
    2.4 receptions/game
    12.8 yd avg
    10 TD (0.2/game)

    Sidney Rice
    70 games / 228 receptions
    3.3 receptions/game
    14.7 yd avg
    27 TD (0.4/game)

    Rice has a pricey contract, yes, but that’s the only complaint I have about him. Rice and Harvin are a clear step above every other WR on the Seahawks. Everything Tate can do at split end can be done better by Harvin. Anything Tate can do from the slot can be done better by Harvin or Baldwin.

    If Harvin, Rice, and Baldwin stay healthy this year, I’d bet Tate ends up with less than 30 receptions in 2013.

  51. yellaman says:

    Harbaugh link is priceless… hey Jim why don’t you relax for once and just enjoy the moment (That’s what I would say to him)

  52. chuck_easton says:

    On the brighter side we are debating which of the top 4 WRs is the true #1 and who will have the tester season.

    Sure beats amending the fact that we have no WRs for the QB to throw to, which was the case just a few years ago when Hass was the starter.

  53. chuck_easton says:

    Tester=better

    I don’t know how auto correct could have come up with that one.

  54. “I don’t see any of the receivers getting 1,000 yards. Not without an injury. There’s only one ball.”

    If he’s healthy, got to think they’ll target Harvin enough to get 80+ catches on the year, and he may get to or top 1,000. But you’re right, there are a lot of targets this year, and we’ll still want to run the ball.

    I’ve got no beef with Rice, though I’d agree he’s being paid like a true #1 threat, and hasn’t produced at that level. But, it’s not my money, and we’re clearly a better team w/him than w/out him, and that’s all that matters for the ’13 season. When the day comes that we have to give bigger paydays to our young stars, he’ll likely be re-structured. And bbnate’s example of the gamewinner he caught against the Bears is a good one – - guys who take that kind of blow and catch the ball, will never hear a complaint from me.

  55. Ewalters7354 says:

    I’m sorry but Harvin isn’t a better split end than Tate.Dude barely can get pass press coverage.But as a slot guy Harvin is the man.Just my two cents.

  56. bbnate420 says:

    I don’t think a lot of people put Rice’s contract in the right perspective. He’s not paid as much as some here seem to insinuate. He’s not in the top 10 paid WRs. The 10th highest paid WR makes an average of 9.4 mil a year. Rice makes an average of 8.2 mil a year. I think Rice is the 14th highest paid WR, which is about where I’d rate him. Here’s a list of the top 10. At least Greg Jennings, Santanio Holmes, and Garcon also make more on average than Rice.

    http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/wide-receiver

  57. bbnate420 says:

    I know BobbyK has an opinion?

  58. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Funny as this is at least the third time we’ve had this debate in the past month or so. Rice was by far the most consistant, reliable receiver we had last year. Don’t recall any drops and made a bunch of clutch plays, first downs, moved the chains, torched the Patriots and was a flat out stud against the Bears. He opened up the field for Tate. He was also breaking in a rookie QB on a running team. Never complained and showed up every week. He was open plenty and Wilson either didn’t have time or didn’t see him as he was rolling to his left. Rice was a critical component of last years success and will be a strong reason for continued success this season. I’m not seeing his lack of speed and he has great hands. Dude is a great receiver.

    Nothing wrong with Tate, as he stepped up big last year, but he still freelances a bit much out there. Even Percy said Tate doesn’t always run the route the right way at the correct depth, but is a playmaker. Rice makes our entire receiving core stronger than it’s ever been. He is teaching the others how to be a pro.

  59. sluggo42 says:

    I wonder how things would shake out amongst the receivers if we were a pass first offense.
    Rook QB
    Marshawn
    Now next year, Harvin is in the mix.

    I see harvin stealing plays from Baldwin. That’s the odd guy out from my view, even though he is great…
    Like Nate dog says, there is only one ball…

  60. sluggo42 says:

    Well, it appears this thread is about dead now, I usually make the last post only to find a new thread is going strong…

  61. montanamike2 says:

    I think Rice is a lot like Miller. They both do what is asked of them even if it means losing personal stats. Rice frees up someone else because he’s always drawing coverage, true i’d rather have Megatron, but there are 31 other teams that would too. Miller is a stud and just because he can’t always catch because we use him to block a lot doesn’t mean he can’t. Both are expensive but necessary for this year, for the record i love Tate too and he already stated that he “owes this team”, for the 2 years it took for him to get going. We have a crowded WR position so i’d still take a wait and see approach and see how the season plays out before i decide who i think we should cut or restructure.

  62. montanamike2 says:

    Not this time Sluggo.

  63. bbnate420 says:

    MoSeahawk, I blame STTBM. ;-)

    Sluggo, I agree that Baldwin will be the odd man out a lot of the time if the other 3 remain healthy. I would see our 3 WR set having Rice at FL, Tate at SE, and Harvin in the slot. This is football though. Guys get injured. I think Baldwin will be around in 2014 to pick up the slack if Tate or Rice are gone.

  64. I think that we’re all in agreement that our WR corps is badass.
    Rice is solid if unspectacular, and Tate and Harvin have a chance to be really explosive in our offense. Throw dbfresh in the mix, and you’ve got something special.

    For those of you like klm008 who enjoy stats, Football Outsiders has a good breakdown of WR’s for 2012 using advanced stats.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

    Rice and Tate both rank highly on the 2 stats they use for WR’s.

    Sidney Rice is ranked #14 in DYAR, Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement, which translates to the total value of a WR over replacement level. Golden Tate checks in not far behind at #17.
    Megatron is #1 in DYAR, so the Hawk duo’s rankings make sense since SR and GT were slightly devalued in our offense because we emphasized the run much more than the pass. They did not have prolific output through no fault of their own, certainly not for lack of talent or skill, but only due to the limited number of touches/lack of opportunities.

    They both rank much higher in the second stat, because of the way our offense is designed. We make our scoring chances count because we use play action derived from a stout run game to set up explosive vertical plays.

    Tate is 4th in the NFL in DVOA, Defense-adjusted Value Over Average, which translates to value per offensive play over an avg NFL WR in the same situation. This explains why PC wants to get GT more involved, since he gets a lot of bang for his buck per touch. Sidney Rice ranks high on DVOA as well, notching in at #7.

    Considering how infrequently we threw the ball compared to other teams, it’s no surprise that GT and SR are both very high on the value per offensive play rankings, both with 7 TD’s even with limited chances.

  65. bbnate420 says:

    Very, very good post, CCVI. A lot of FO stats are very good. So are some of the ones from PFF, but a number of them are very suspect if you don’t place them in perspective. PFF doesn’t seem to account for playing time very well. One thing that is very, very hard to quantify is which receiver is commanding the defenses’ attention.

  66. bbnate420 says:

    Thanks, Saidpoint. That was sweet, my brotha.

    I like how he refrained from commenting on that turd in SF. He’s in Sea. He’s focused on that. I do like Sherm being Sherm though. Do what you do, my brotha.

  67. bbnate420 says:

    *Sandpoint

  68. sluggo42 says:

    Yes, the new thread is being posted as I write this…, nice try Mike…

  69. wazzulander says:

    Sorry sluggo…

    Nobody hit on the 2nd most irreplaceable player question? I agree with the choice of ET, I don’t agree Sherm would be the next choice (based on depth), probably Okung or Wagner would be next for me.

    Rice was fantastic last year. That catch in the Bears game was just one of several he had where he got absolutely crushed but still made the catch. He also had some fantastic sideline grabs and of course the bomb against the Pats. I like Tate a lot to, such an incredible skill set and so explosive, its not an either or situation…yet.

  70. sluggo42 says:

    C’mon Eric, throw me a bone here mate!

  71. bbnate420 says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81YrAaDuMGw

    Here you go, Sluggo. Good morning. Hawks are the topic, talk amongst yourselves.

  72. bbnate420 says:

    The only problem is you have Angie Mentink, the clueless Mariners lackey, flapping her gums for a little while.

  73. FairbanksDoug says:

    Pretty harsh on Angie.

  74. bbnate420 says:

    Mueller, Sims, Blowers, and Krueger are team lackeys too. I’m not sure if that makes you feel better. Buhner is the only one you will get some real spit from sometimes. I take that back, Brad Adam will give it straight sometimes. He’s one of the only redeeming factors on the ROOT coverage.

  75. bbnate–Read your first paragraph of the comment I replied to over again. You did not, in point of fact, simply state a countering opinion. You put words in my mouth, and misrepresented my meaning, which I corrected.

    And Im not upset, I just dont care for words being put in my mouth. Yes, I am an amateur same as everyone else on this blog.

    As for teams focusing on Rice or Tate, it didnt appear to me that teams worry much about Rice. He doesnt have the speed or athleticism to demand double-teams, though he is a more skilled route runner than Tate.

    I never said Rice didnt make any big catches or make any big plays: just that Tate made more with less. Look at Tate’s plays in the TOP 100 on NFL.com from last year–he made ridiculously athletic plays nearly every game–Rice did not.

    You guys seem to think I hate Rice or think he stinks–nothing could be further from the truth. But he is a terrifically frustrating signing, and IMO doesnt justify nearly the salary he earns, and I want a different FL unless he’s willing to take a huge paycut, and I damn sure dont want to see Tate leave and get better and better, and us keep overpaying for a guy who’s only slightly above average for a starting FL and who’s physical makeup limits what he can do.

  76. bbnate–Your wording was condescending in the first paragraph, IMO. But no worries, Im fine with you not seeing Rice/Tate the way I do.

    Stevos–Youre using Tate’s first couple seasons, which I think is utterly wrong-headed. Tate played WR for two years before he came here, and never had a second training camp, which was a huge stumbling block for him, while Rice at the same time had been in the league for several years already, and played WR far longer than Tate. Yet over the same time period, Rice barely outperformed Tate–and Tate was benched for a lot of those games, so his snaps were far fewer with far fewer opportunities than Rice.

    My comment was referencing this season, specifically after the first 5-6 games, the point when Seattle started feeding those two the ball and Wilson began to “get it”.

    But even bringing in ALL Tate’s career shows that a guy who will make half of what Rice makes in a season over FOUR YEARS and has been onfield for far fewer snaps has performed at nearly the same level, stats wise, just proves my point; Rice isnt a top-flight WR, nor worth anything close to what he’s paid.

    They are different players entirely, with different abilities and limitations, but from watching both closely, I feel Tate is rapidly improving, has a much higher ceiling, is a far better athlete, and is a much more sound investment than Sidney Rice.

    Wasnt Rice’s contract at the time in the top-10? Yet he never, ever performed up to that level.

    And I dont buy that Harvin is a better SE than Tate–thats just not true at all. Watch and see, Seattle will not use Harvin at SE much but will keep Tate there. Once Rice is gone, maybe they move Harvin outside, but I think all signs point to Seattle using Harvin in the slot/backfield/in motion most of the time he’s onfield.

    As for the bomb in NE, that was totally due to horrible Safety and CB play by the Pats–Rice wasnt even running full speed, and his route wasnt that complicated, it was just a terrible performance by the Pats secondary, and a well-designed play by Seattle’s staff, to take advantage of said terrible secondary.

    If Tate leaves, and we keep Rice around, within a month y’all are gonna see Tate ripping it up in Jax or somewhere, and Rice fading out as his speed continues to diminish, and wish Seattle had kept the younger playmaker around…

    You guys are welcome to your opinions on Rice and Tate, but I cant understand it…the last 10-12 games of the season, Tate was the better player, from where I sit, and while Rice had some good games, he had some games where he was a ghost as well, while Tate seemed to be getting 3-4 touches a game, and made them all count BIGTIME.

  77. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, “Either he thinks you have to get 1,000 yards to be a good WR or he has an amateur scouting report of his own that doesn’t look fondly on Rice.” That’s what I said. “He” was you in this scenario. I didn’t really put words in your mouth. I just said that you’re not a fan of Rice due to YOUR amateur scouting report of Rice. Like I said, amateur isn’t meant to be offensive. It just means that you’re not paid to evaluate players. Just like at least 99% of the rest of us I would assume.

    And I was right! You think Rice isn’t nearly as good as some of us think due to YOUR scouting report of him, i.e. your impression of him from watching him play. You admit you don’t think he’s a number 1 from watching him. Am I wrong about that? That’s fine. It’s your opinion. I don’t agree. And many other don’t either.

    “He isnt physical enough in my mind to be a number one WR, and he isnt the kind of guy when its third or fourth down and 12, that even when everyone in the world knows he’s getting the ball, he’s gonna make the play, and yet thats the level he’s paid at.”

    Those are YOUR words, dude. That insinuates IMO that you don’t think he makes big catches when they’re needed to be made. I pointed out examples of where I think you’re wrong. Think what you want. I will too. To take a page from the Duke, I think you like to promote the narrative you’ve developed. You probably won’t quit until you’ve been thoroughly dis-proven.

  78. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, which post did you perceive as condescending? The 4:00 pm one?

  79. bbnate420 says:

    Or the 2:47 one? I just said that you’ve repeated your opinion of Rice a number of times. Which is true. And I wasn’t suggesting that you shouldn’t. You have the right to your opinion. So do the rest of us. No offense was meant. I think I said as much. If you thought it was offensive, I apologize for that. It wasn’t my intent.

  80. bbnate420 says:

    You are almost veering into Yankster territory with your guarantees, STTBM. They may come back to bite you in the butt. I try not to pretend I know the future. I ultimately just want the Hawks to win. I don’t care that much if Tate or Rice is the primary receiver that accomplishes that. Like I said, PC/JS have the 2013 season to decide on Rice and Tate. Why not take it? Your comment about Rice’s contract was just bullshit. Deal with it.

  81. The last four regular season games, Tate had 10 catches for 202 yards, while Rice had 7 catches for 125 yards. Seattle was using Baldwin, the TE’s etc more, and we were winning by 50-burgers.

    The previous 4 games, Tate had 15 catches for 231 yards and 4 TD’s, while Rice also had 15 catches for 257 yards and 4 TD’s, nearly mirror images of each other.

    Before that, Rice was outplaying Tate, or at least getting more opportunities and making more catches.

    In the playoffs, Rice had 1 catch for 27 yards vs WAS and 4 catches for 60 yards vs ATL (0 TD’s), while Tate had 4 catches for 35 yards vs WAS and 6 catches for 103 yards and a TD vs ATL. Rice was targeted 4 times the WAS game, with only one catch, targeted 9 times with 4 catches the second. Tate was targeted 5 times vs WAS with 4 catches, and targeted 8 times vs ATL with 6 catches. Tate’s catch/target percentage is markedly higher than Rice’s.

    While stats are not the whole story, it seems clear that Tate is outplaying Rice down the stretch and is our most valuable WR.

  82. bbnate–Comparing me to Yankster! That hurts! Its only my opinion, but I feel strongly that Tate will continue improving and make us all gnash our teeth if Seattle lets him get away.

    “Either he thinks you have to get 1,000 yards to be a good WR or he has an amateur scouting report of his own that doesn’t look fondly on Rice.”

    One, I dont think you have to get 1,000 yards to be a good or great WR, as evidenced by my huge Bobby Engram man-crush, and the fact that Im trumpeting Tate, who wasnt even close to that last year. Two, Ive never ever made out like my opinions are some kind of scouting report, amateur or otherwise. I may have strident opinions on things I feel strongly about, but I’ve never claimed to be anything but a fan with an analytical mind, no better and no worse than many on this blog.

    I just disagreed with the way you interpreted and restated my reasoning.

    The only reason I keep posting the same reasoning and opinion regarding Tate/Rice is that the same folks keep bagging on Tate and talking up Rice (and using the same reasoning), which I find a) laughable and b) annoying as hell…so Im moved to respond.

    Ive always stood up for Tate, when his play warranted it, but I also questioned his work ethic esp when he admitted he’d been a punk his rookie year, and when he thought he was a maple bar bandito…

    And having a minority opinion is certainly no guarantee of being wrong, history has ample examples of that. Doesnt make me right necessarily either, Im aware of that.

    This season will go a long way towards forming the Hawks of the next 3-4 years. If Tate continues on his trajectory since the 5th game last year, he’s gonna be a star. And I think–and hope-we’ll resign him and let Rice walk if he doesnt take a cut. But time will tell.

  83. Rice makes some big catches; IMO, he doesnt make enough of them to justify his fame or his contract or getting more targets than Tate. It would seem that the Hawks are beginning to think that way too, as Tate got more targets than Rice by a good margin in the playoffs.

    Of course, thats incomplete information, as its quite possible there are more contributing factors to that, such as Rice perhaps being targeted more than Tate by the defense, or Seattle being less willing in a playoff game to throw the ball deeper downfield (I could be wrong, but I believe Rice usually is targeted further downfield than Tate, as Tate gets quite a bit of shorter, quicker throws to take advantage of his athleticism.), etc etc…

    As for Rice’s contract, it was my understanding they are paying him 7-8 million this year if they keep him, and the cap hit would still be considerable if they cut him this year, but not anywhere near as bad if they cut him next year. Its been talked about on this blog many times in the offseason, and most of us agreed that due to the cap hit, it was likely that barring a total disintegration of skills/speed, Rice was safe this year. Where was your vitriol then?!

    And yeah, its utter supposition that if it wasnt for the cap hit this year, Seattle would seriously have considered cutting/reducing his salary. But Im far from the only one to state that opinion this offseason. Relax, I never said it was a stone-engraved FACT that Seattle would cut him, but its what I think….

    And Im glad Rice is on our team this year, I just wish he wasnt taking up so much capspace. Just like CCVI, I think this year is gonna be awesome and our WR corps will be the best in the league.

    We’re probably gonna lose either Rice or Baldwin or both–not to mention getting priced out of the Tate market–so I intend to enjoy the hell out of this year. The stats might not be huge, but I could see Baldwin getting 35 catches for over 500 yards, and the other three all getting more than 50 catches and 700 yards, and I expect Millers stats to increase as well.

  84. bbnate420 says:

    God damn it, I had a longer post and it was erased.

  85. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, I was just saying that your opinion of Tate is an amateur scouting report. It’s not meant to be offensive. My opinion of Rice, and every other player actually, is the same thing. It was just meant to mean it’s your subjective opinion. Time will tell.

  86. bbnate420 says:

    And STTBM, Rice’s contract isn’t guaranteed in 2013. If people said it was or insinuated as such, I guess I missed it. Regardless, I think PC/JS will release him if they’re done with him like you.

  87. tchristensen says:

    WHERE”S ERIC?

  88. bbnate–No one said Rice’s contract was guaranteed in 2013, but many of us have discussed that the cap hit was such that he would be unlikely to be cut in 2013, but in 2014 the cap hit from his signing bonus drops enough so it would be more palatable for the Hawks to cut him.

    I hate it when it eats my long posts, though I bet a few (or more than a few) wish it would eat more of my tomes! ;p

    Can anyone tell I havent had anyone around to argue hawks with lately?!

  89. MoSeahawk12 says:

    And to think this article was about Carpenter’s potential….99 comments later. This group doesn’t always see eye to eye and often there are conflicts and disagreements. However, I’m pretty certain as many of us our long term Seahawks fans, that we have to be pretty excited with this team that Coach Pete and GMaster John have assembled in now the start of year four.

    To have the problems we have, like debating the quality of our starting receivers. We’re loaded at receiver, running back, defensive back field and have a young up and coming linebacker crew to go along with a above average O and D line. Oh and our second year QB might be pretty good when it’s all said and done.

    Training camp starts in about three and a half weeks. We have what I like to call….Good Problems!

  90. Mo–Agreed!

    Someone should post a list of the Seahawks rookie class of draftees and UDFA’s, and we could make a list as to the ones most likely to end up on another teams active roster, and the ones to make the team/Practice Squad…anyone interested?!

  91. Ewalters7354 says:

    Tate and Rice are two totally different receivers.Aside from Rice the Hawks have all short to average sized guys.And we all know Pete loves a big X receiver.

  92. bbnate420 says:

    This thread has 10 different links. That’s how Morning Links goes. We’re all good. People been much bigger corn holes before, and I know I have.

    STTBM, I didn’t say anyone said that Rice’s 2013 salary is guaranteed, but your argument makes no sense IMO unless it is. They owe 3.6 mil if they release him before 2013. 2.4 mil if they release him before 2014. They would save 6.1 mil by releasing him before the 2013 season. Thems the facts.

  93. I love both Rice and Tate, but if the Seahawks had to cut one of them right now, I’d hope it would be Rice. My answer would be the same if their salaries were identical. I think Tate is a play-maker and will be more valuable to the Seahawks long-term than Rice. I love Rice though and hope the Seahawks can somehow keep both (very unlikely).

  94. SandpointHawk says:

    Release Percy…Hell release Wilson…

  95. SandpointHawk says:

    Speaking of Golden Tate,looks like the new Times scribe might have been looking at the TNT blog for ideas….

    http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2021149426_seahawks09xml.html

  96. SandpointHawk says:

    Danny (Tie Boy) and Brock (I’m going surfing) on the Read option in 2013….

    http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2021149426_seahawks09xml.html

  97. SandpointHawk says:

    Oh my, this should start a debate among the faithful….

    “All-Pro center Max Unger and Pro Bowl left tackle Russell Okung get most of the attention when it comes to the Seahawks’ offensive line. But right tackle Breno Giacomini and guard Paul McQuistan also are playing their parts in the offensive success.”

    http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/Seahawks%E2%80%99-line-includes-a-pair-of-unsung-heroes-in-Paul-McQuistan-and-Breno-Giacomini/a9d3a7d0-0b46-43ae-ac8e-41c6f017b976

  98. Right now on NFL32 – the future of golden Tate

  99. dirtbiker_joey says:

    Tate and Rice will both have 1,000+ yards and 10+ TDs this season.

    So will Harvin.

    And Baldwin.

    And Miller and Willson.

    That gives Wilson 6,000+ yards and 60+ TDs!

    With Lynch running for 2,000+ yards and 15 TDs, Turbo getting 800/5, and Michael adding 500/5, this is going to be a historically great offense.

    Coupled with the best defense in the NFL, look for the Seahawks to set an NFL record for point differential on their way to a 16-0 record and their first ever Lombardi Trophy!

  100. Southendzone says:

    To the spreadsheet creator: Great job! Lots of great info in there.

    Noticed a tiny formula inconsistency though in X3:X12. The range for the countif is starting a little lower each time, looks like it was copied down w/o fixing the reference. If you correct the starting of the range to H15 for all of those you will get the true counts. It’s currently missing 3 players.

    Awesome info, thanks!

  101. dirtbiker_joey–Har!

  102. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    here’s one for everyone,

    hawks come out of training camp with a few surprises making the 53 man roster.
    the hawks have an epic season shattering every team record on the way to a 14-2 season losing only to the falcons and rams. the true redemption is in the fact that rams beat the 49ers in the wildcard and the hawks destroy the rams in the divisional round to go on and crush the falcons 58 to 16 in the nfc championship. this all is polished off by the dismantling of the payton manning mystique as the hawks run away with a close game in the 4th to win their first of 3 consecutive superbowl titles. on their way the hawks set team records in rushing yards,touchdowns, interceptions, sacks and take aways.

    you may scoff at this wild prediction but something happens on the way to the Lombardi trophy . the players making the most get together and all restructure their deals to make it possible to keep this team together long term. even the greatest QB in hawks history signs a 10 year deal for 10 mill a year when his time comes.
    the hawks go on to win 7 of next 10 superbowls becoming the greatest dynasty in football history.

    if you are going to dream why not really dream

  103. Dukeshire says:

    I’ve been out of town camping; what was the rap on Harvin’s dust up? No one’s talking about it so must not be too serious.

  104. blueshq says:

    I still think you’re OK! That dream is what keeps me going. And I think it’s getting pretty close to reality. I’ve been on board since before the first training camp and I’ve never been this confident and excited! Every year my wife says “yeah, you always say that” when I try to tell her how great the Seahawks are going to be this year. But this is different! We actually are the team to beat!!!!! After all these years!

  105. blueshq says:

    Maybe my favorite writer of all time (Dave Bolling) can rescue us?

  106. sluggo42 says:

    Wow, great tangle guys, and still civil about it! Bravo! Well done.
    Tough time of the year, the waiting is killing all of us, but it’s a good time to straighten up the rest of our lives. I am learning a few new sets with my band mate, and we are programming lots of backing tracks. And the house is finally going to start construction. (My rental burned down in April)

    So keep the chins up and continue to fight fairly, and the season will be with us shortly!

    War hawks!

  107. My wife told me I’m obsessed in a very concerned tone of voice when she caught me watching a Seahawks highlight video on YouTube the other day. Anyone else have that problem?

  108. raymaines says:

    That depends on exactly what you think the problem is, the wife or the video.

  109. montanamike2 says:

    I hope we get a new thread tomorrow.

  110. OrrObb, I have BetterAtLifeThanYou on heavy rotation around my house.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/BetterAtLifeThanYou

    My favorite is Marshawn Lynch’s 2012 highlight collection.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bT5FA3am5E

    Can’t get enough of Beast trucking Dashon Goldson 1:32

    I just read it man. I just read it. lol.

  111. sluggo42 says:

    Well, I just watched a pile of highlights of rice and Tate.
    One thing that I was reminded of is that little pip-squeak QB we have can put a little zip on the ball.

    Tate AND Rice, both guys made some fantastic catches. ( the beast mode highlight reel was awesome too)

    I think slave is just saying that rice gets a lot of money, not that he sucks. Is it that Tate is just really good and deserves some more money?
    Our offense doesn’t cater to making any WR a star, so it’s hard for them to appear so. And now harvin is going to reduce their numbers even further, so this will become even more difficult.

    I think theynarenboth terrific, and since Tate is younger, the nod goes to him.

  112. sluggo42 says:

    Ok Eric, you may now post the new thread…

  113. seahawkNJ says:

    I need a slab of meat….I can’t look at carp anymore.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG7LjVCj50Y

  114. I used to love this blog. When a couple of days go by and no new links, it leaves itself susceptible to another paper or sports entity. How hard is it to copy and paste links so there is a new chat taking place?

    How much revenue is missed by not having banner ads on the side?

    Have you ever thought about doing more contesting?

    It won’t be long…stay tuned.

    GO HAWKS!

  115. seahawksteven777 says:

    Did Eric go on vacation or something? Seems kinda odd that there hasn’t been a new Morning Links yet.

  116. For all we know Eric is puking his guts out or has a family emergency; relax and hijack the thread if you have something you wanna talk about…

  117. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Or perhaps at the mall with Moffitt.

  118. doubledink says:

    Something might be happening behind the scenes that may not be good. I have a foreboding feeling…
    This amount of silence is not normal.

  119. GeorgiaHawk says:

    This is actually a very well written article for bleacherreport imo. I also read the whole thing this time before posting it, lol.

    Wow! Being last in the NFL, ( for our Defense ) in 3rd and 8 situations is something they really need to improve on this year.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1692626-where-can-the-seattle-seahawks-improve-most-in-2013

  120. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Carpenter posted a photo on Twitter yesterday saying that he had just ran drills with the D Line. That’s good news. He is a giant man. Maybe they switch him to D Line. (probably not)
    Find it at @JEcarpenter77 on Twitter

  121. GeorgiaHawk says:

    All that built up frustration of chasing Wilson around last year, (to no avail) has appeared to finally catch up to Brooks. Lol.

  122. ryanryan says:

    some interesting tidbits from the roster:

    P Jon Ryan has been on the team the longest

    39 undrafted, 51 drafted (I wonder if that’s average?)

  123. sluggo42 says:

    Wow, what a concept, Carp as a nose tackle. Crash the middle big man! Just knock everyone down.

    But, the first guy to cut block him and BAM goes his knees. Done…… Ok forget that…

  124. bobby, i tried adding you to facebook (kevin zamiskie jr)

  125. bbnate420 says:

    Maybe our fearless leader is getting poached?

  126. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Could be nate. I’ve been thinking for awhile now that ESPN would be calling his name eventually.

  127. Ewalters7354 says:

    Sluggo lol poor Carp.He seems to be our offensive version of Marcus Tubbs

  128. montanamike2 says:

    I’ve seen Eric on NFL network and ESPN a few times,i hope it’s that and not something bad like a death in the family.

  129. bbnate420 says:

    BTW, it’s been 3 days. Not exactly time to freak out.

  130. raymaines says:

    Three days of fun and music and nothing but fun and music…

  131. montanamike2 says:

    In perspective it is the independence day weekend and the slowest part of the season, i’m sure Eric is fine. I hope we milk that Brooks story to death nationally , the 49r’s deserve it, especially Harbaugh. I decided to try and stay away from “friends” who smash me on the head with a bottle 3 times to soften up my head, before he pummels me in the face for trying to keep them from driving when totally wasted. Happy 4th to those in the ‘States.

  132. montanamike2 says:

    And threatens to shoot me with his gun.

  133. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Great to hear that Wagner is having good off season.
    The competition for depth at linebacker is something I’m looking forward to seeing.

    http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/With-Seahawks-linebackers-it-all-starts-with-the-Ws/2a132b9a-2d5c-45a2-bc0b-2de9e26afdf3

  134. GeorgiaHawk says:

    That’s Willson, Clark Judge, and to me he is a little more intriguing then McGrath for backup TE. I wouldn’t be surprised if they both make the team though.
    How about this for an idea, would if the team could use Harper at both WR and TE? Kind of a hybrid position. Isn’t Harper about the same height and about 10 pounds less than Hernandez?

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/22623655/nfl-training-camp-preview-seattle-seahawks

  135. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Some Rams fans seem to know something about Carpenter that most of us don’t know. Lol, hope they are right.

    http://ramblinfan.com/2013/07/04/nfc-west-all-star-team-offense-edition/

  136. GeorgiaHawk says:

    BTW- Happy 4th of July.

  137. Dukeshire says:

    Might be a slow time of the year, but it’s unlike Eric to take days off from the blog on the heels of a furlow. Like Montana, I too hope it’s nothing more than some more time off.

  138. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Yea, hopefully Eric just needs a little more time away from us.

    Tater tots for breakfast anyone?

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000216120/article/making-the-leap-no-31-seattle-seahawks-golden-tate

  139. SandpointHawk says:

    Judge says we lost Steven Hauschka. He re-signed. How long are they going to misspell Willson?

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