Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Hawks, Schneider winning arms race

Post by Eric Williams on March 14, 2013 at 8:06 am with 134 Comments »
March 14, 2013 9:34 am

Russell Wilson, John Schneider

Dave Boling of The News Tribune believes the Seattle Seahawks aggressive approach in free agency, led by general manager John Schneider, is helping the team win the talent acquisition competition with NFC West division rival San Francisco.

After securing Percy Harvin in a trade with Minnestoa, Seattle’s latest salvo is the Seahawks agreeing to terms with Detroit Lions free agent defensive end Cliff Avril.

Boling: “Fans are eagerly measuring how these two moves have affected the balance in the NFC West Division.

And that shows exactly how the Seattle-San Francisco rivalry has ripened. It’s not a thing that gets hyper-intensive on two Sundays in the fall, but demands a fan’s year-round attention.

Schneider upped the ante Wednesday with the Avril signing.

Your move, Niners.”

Here’s my story on the Avril signing.

John Boyle of The Everett Herald provides a report from the University of Washington’s pro day, where cornerback Desmond Trufant had a strong workout in front of scouts from a nine NFL teams – Seattle, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Denver, New England, Kansas City, Oakland, Jacksonville and New Orleans. Seattle’s contingent included defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, linebackers coach Ken Norton Jr., secondary coach Kris Richard and defensive passing game coordinator Rocky Seto.

Danny O’Neil of The Seattle Times believes the small amount the Seahawks are paying Russell Wilson in his rookie deal allows them to spend more money on free agency this year.

ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports former Seahawk Leon Washington is visiting the Patriots.

Robert Mays of Grantland writes about Steve Hutchinson and the overlooked value of guards in the NFL.

ESPN’s Jake Thomases has a nice feature on Anna Wilson, the younger sister of Russell Wilson, and one of the best high school girls basketball players in the nation.

Jeff Reynolds of NFLDraftScout.com says that Alabama defensive tackle Jesse Williams had a strong workout at his pro day, including a 40-yard time of 4.84 seconds at 6-3 and 326 pounds.

Categories:
Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 134
  1. OregonHawk says:

    ? Avril Trade?

  2. JazBadAzz says:

    Its funny how the media trying to spin this off season moves as if the Seahawks are trying to keep up with the whiners….on the contrary, Pete and John march to their on drums! Trailblazing and the moves around the league is telling!

    Look at Sando article about the whiners moving to change scheme and how close it looks to what we do in his breakdown.

  3. yankinta says:

    Top 5 on my Wish List :

    1) Trade Flynn for 3rd rd. pick in 2013 and conditional pick in 2014. I believe he can be decent starting QB (better than Alex Smith next year). Which would mean high round pick in 2014.

    2) Draft a Stud LB (Chase Thomas will do, maybe 4th or 5th round)

    3) Draft a 3-Technique DT

    4) Draft a TE (Josh Reed or Gavin Escobar will do)

    5) Draft Matt Scott (QB from Arizona)

  4. bbnate420 says:

    They’re not getting even a 3rd for Flynn much less a 3rd and a high pick in 2014. It doesn’t matter what any of us think about him, it matters what the teams looking for a QB think of him.

  5. raymaines says:

    “Danny O’Neil of The Seattle Times believes the small amount the Seahawks are paying Russell Wilson in his rookie deal allows them to spend more money on free agency this year.”

    Insightful little bugger isn’t he.

  6. bbnate420 says:

    Having to pay peanuts to RW allows them to spend more money elsewhere? Thanks for the insight, Captain Obvious (Mr. O’Neill).

    I have a question about Anna Wilson. Is she too short?

  7. Dukeshire says:

    Boling doesn’t feel the Seattle / SF rivalry isnt “hyper-intensive” on Sunday? Perhaps if he’s comparing it to Pitt / Balt, but this has become the most intense rivalry Seattle has had since the ’80s with the Raiders. And after the savage beating Seattle put on them Sunday night in December, it will only get hotter.

  8. yankinta says:

    Yeah, we’ll see about that. There are still at least 4 teams with QB need, and there only one capable starting option at QB. That is Matt Flynn. I am sure all those teams would be okay with conditional pick in 2014. If Matt Flynn turns out to be a decent QB, they’ll gladly give up high pick in 2014.

  9. Dukeshire says:

    O’Neil is a fool. I’ve never cared for him. It’s surprising actually that with his special brand of generalizations a national outlet hasn’t scooped him up.

  10. bbnate420 says:

    Boling was saying that it’s not JUST hyper-intensive on 2 Sundays. It’s a year round rivalry. I think anyways.

  11. yankinta says:

    I think we’re done with Free Agents,, except for whether or not to resign Alan Branch. Looking forward to the DRAFT and Matt Flynn Trade!!

  12. yankinta says:

    And also Do we keep Paul McQuistan at $3.375M cap numbers??

  13. raymaines says:

    Wouldn’t it be ironic if Anna Wilson was 6’3″?

  14. chuck_e, lol, thanks for that quote from big B McK. I think of him more as a rented school bus than a Maserati needing insurance but that’s neither here nor there. Maybe if the market gets really slow, dead slow, he will consider signing for “less”. He would make a nice blue & neon green wearing swing tackle regardless of what he wants. Starting LT $$? Sheesh, how selfish.

    On to another ring wearing veteran that I wouldn’t mind at a discount price. Now that young Cliff Avril is in the fold, DT Richard Seymour makes some sense. He’s versatile enough for our line and hasn’t been a champ in some time. I remember being pretty pissed when NE snagged him before us in the draft.

  15. bbnate420 says:

    Fitzpatrick is out there. Cassell, Palmer, and Kolb could all become UFAs. Kolb and Cassell are likely to reportedly. Kolb hasn’t been healthy, but has been at least decent when he was. I think Cassell sucks, but he’s had 2 good seasons as a starting QB. 2 more than Flynn. And they don’t have to give up any picks for these guys, and all may be cheaper than Flynn. Not to mention QBs available in the draft. Flynn was an UFA last year. Nobody would give him more than 6.5 mil a year, 10 mil guaranteed. What did he prove this season that changed that? That he could lose a starting QB competition? Now somebody is going to give up a 3rd and high, presumably 2nd or higher, 2014 pick? You can tell me you told me so if it happens, but I wouldn’t hold your breath.

  16. JazBad, I agree. The ‘Seahawks following 49ers blueprint’ meme is overplayed. Harbaugh inherited a mature team in SF where he inherited a stout defense and ball-control offense. Carroll tore his team down and rebuilt it from scratch according to his own ideas. Both coaches have a Pac-10 mentality, but the comparisons are overplayed.

    Harbaughs challenge will be keeping his D strong as Justin Smith declines, and trying to find better DBs. Carroll’s challenge will be keeping a steady supply of chewing gum while his team matures and wreaks havoc on the NFL.

  17. SandpointHawk says:

    Great line…Re: O’Neil

    …It’s surprising actually that with his special brand of generalizations a national outlet hasn’t scooped him up.

  18. Yeah, dreams of getting a high draft pick for matt Flynn should be shelved. Teams have options out there.

    Trading away Flynn’s high salary would help the team IF we can FIRST get an experienced QB to replace him. This is why a trade of Flynn for Tarvaris Jackson plus a low draft pick would be a good trade for us. And I know BobbyK joins me in wanting TJack back in Seattle.

  19. bbnate420 says:

    Anna Wilson is significantly shorter than RW in the picture they show, but they don’t show what shoes they are wearing. RW could be in high heels?

    I think the Hawks have to sign at least 1 more UFA, a kicker. I guess with Wiggs they don’t have to. I would think a 3rd OT too. Definitely if they release McQ.

  20. lol! yes, Danny O is a bit of a fool, but the little guy makes me laugh. I like him.

  21. bbnate420 says:

    Danny’s funny. He might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he’s entertaining. At least in his chats.

  22. I’m loving the fact that we are getting Avril! Here we go!!!

  23. RDPoulsbo says:

    I still think Flynn will be traded for at least a 3rd and a conditional pick in 2014. There are simply too many teams that need a starting quality QB than there are to be had via FA, draft or trade. People calling guys like Gerrard starters (in NY of all places)? There’s only so many Smiths and Barkleys in the draft to be had and one of those teams left out will pull the trigger for a relatively low cost, low risk option like Flynn. A the end of the day, coaches don’t like to be fired for having a dumpster fire at QB and not doing anything about it.

  24. Release McQuistan? Ouch! No way. He’s a starter at any of four positions, one of the most dependable O lineman we have, and definitely the most versatile. But at $3 mil this year it should be a priority to restructure and extend his contract. Under a more reasonable contract, I’d keep him in Seattle until he retires. And while they are at it, they should restructure Carpenter’s deal too.

  25. yankinta says:

    Can’t compare last year QB market to this year’s QB market!!!

    There were a little interest in Matt Flynn because there was Payton Manning in the Free agent market and 4 First Round Rated QB in the draft last year. There were 6 teams with QB needs and we were the only one left out and we signed Matt Flynn.

    This year, there are ZERO first round rated QB in the draft this year, maybe Geno Smith but everyone agrees he’d be a reach/risk.

    There are 4 Teams with REAL QB needs, currently!!

    Matt Flynn has more upside than Fitzpatrick, Cassell, Palmer, and Kolb. There is a market for him. Watch and Learn…..

  26. You just never know with these guys but I just don’t see McQuiston going anywhere. He has too many positives to not keep him.

    Very versatile and really not overly expensive. Yes, it is kind of high but not crazy high.

    Of course those twins will do whatever they have to do to make the team better, or give them better opportunities.

  27. Dukeshire says:

    bbnate – I think you’re right. I misread what Boling was intending to say.

  28. bbnate420 says:

    There’s no way Carp is restructuring. He is making approx. 4.5 mil the next 2 years and 3.1 of it is guaranteed. His cap hit in 2013 would actually go up a little over 1 mil if he is released before 2013. Actually, it would be the same if they did it after june 1. There’s nothing to gain by releasing him.

  29. bbnate420 says:

    “Watch and learn….”

    LOL! It sounds like you took a shot of that homer kool-aid and went back for seconds. I don’t know what draft analysis you’re looking at, but everyone I’ve seen has Geno Smith going in the first. The question is how high. Most have 2 QBs going in the 1st. Do you know how long it’s been since a QB wasn’t drafted in the 1st round? 1996 was the last time. The Tards can have Smith if they want him. I will watch and laugh when Flynn doesn’t garner anything close to your delusional scenario.

    P.S. I would LOVE it if you were right. I just can’t delude myself that much.

  30. bbnate420 says:

    Flynn certainly isn’t low risk and isn’t necessarily lost cost either. Not compared to a drafted QB anyways. Probably the UFA QBs too.

  31. yankinta says:

    lol, be sure to come back and say, Yankinta, I did watch and I did learn, after we trade Flynn.

  32. bbnate420 says:

    I will be sure to come back and rub it in. I might’ve let it slide before.

  33. yankinta says:

    lol, great!!! look forward to it!! :)

  34. seahawk44 says:

    I hope to keep Flynn on the roster this season for the super bowl run. It is comforting to know that the backup qb can come in and be productive in case of an unfortunate injury.

    It would be a terrible scenario if Flynn was traded, Wilson suffered an injury and the unknown backup qb came in and could not be productive. Then everyone here would be saying …if only we still had Flynn!

  35. RDPoulsbo says:

    I thought we were talking starting quality QBs bbnate. If you believe the NY media is going to give Rex Ryan a pass going into the season with Garrard/Sanchez, then you may need a psychiatric exam. There’s a few other coaches on the hot seat because of their QB situation as well.

    There are none of those starting quality QBs in FA and 1 or 2, maybe 3 in the draft if you count Glennon. Then there’s a guy like Flynn out there for the teams on the outside looking in. If Smith, Barkley and Glennon all go in the 1st round, it’s easy to see Flynn’s stock rise because again, coaches or GMs for that matter don’t like being fired for not at least trying to do anything about a QB mess.

  36. I agree but I am saying if/when we get the offer (at least a 3rd round pick), we cannot say No. JS/PC will not say no.

    Plus, I’ve been watching RW play since his college days, it’s not likely that he will get seriously injured on the field, so I am not that worried about it.

  37. Dukeshire says:

    Not just trade Flynn, but get a 3rd and a ’14 comp pick. When it doesn’t happen I won’t “rub it in”, but I will remember the hubris of “watch and learn”. lol

  38. RDPoulsbo says:

    Well, I certainly was wrong about Flynn being the starter last year so it’s not like I pretend I’m right all the time. I will say I was right about Leon being cut before FA started when they signed Harvin so it’s not like I’m wrong all the time either.

    If there’s one thing that we know to this point, it’s that the FO is going all in on a Superbowl run these next 2 years. That means fewer plan Bs in exchange for winning now. Backup QB is just that, a plan B. Meanwhile, they could still someone in a d-line rotation that could be expected to play in games or even someone who could play gunner when Obomanu is eventually cut for that matter.

  39. Southendzone says:

    Yakinta, I’ll come back here too and congratulate you as the Nostradamus of all Seahawk knowledge if you’re right about that 3rd rounder.

    Look forward to doing it too.

  40. bbnate420 says:

    Having 3 QBs drafted in the 1st round ADDS to Flynn’s value? Can someone explain this rationale to me? BobbyK? Duke?

    RGIII and Luck were the only QBs in the 2012 draft without significant question marks. Geno Smith is every bit, if not better, the prospect that Weeden was.

    I never mentioned Garrard, but why did they sign him? To be the 3rd string QB? That makes no sense. The Palmer, Fitzpatrick, Palmer, and Cassell all have started full seasons and had at least a decent one. Flynn hasn’t. Fitzpatrick is very similar to Flynn. Again, There were plenty of teams with QB issues when he was a UFA and he didn’t exactly have teams beating his door down.

    Time will tell. I hope your guys’ fan fantasy comes true. I really do.

  41. bbnate420 says:

    See, Palmer is so good I had to list him twice. He’s like 2 QBs!

    Yantinka said a 3rd and a high pick in 14. Presumably at least another 3rd or better. RD said a 3rd and conditional in 14.

  42. well I certainly am “watching and learning. lol.

    I’ll be all for any reasonable trade of Flynn AFTER we secure an experienced backup for Wilson.

    My first season as a football fan was 1972, when I watched Bob Griese get his ankle broken in week 5, Earl Morrall came in and won 11 games in a row, Griese returned to win the AFC Championship game and Super Bowl. 17-0. The greatest season in the history of the NFL, and it could not have happened if the Dolphins had not had a backup QB who could carry the team. I’ll never understand why some people don’t value backup QBs appropriately.

  43. lol, again, read my post at 9:23…. you’ll get your answer.

    You forgot that Miami liked Ryan T. (he had a HIGH – First round grade) so that’s why they didn’t want to sign Flynn.

    Fitzpatrick has proven to be a below average NFL Starter. It’s lazy to compare him to Flynn.

    David Garrard’s contract is not guaranteed. If he doesn’t make the Roster, the Jets won’t owe him anything….

  44. I’m having a hard time reading this thread, and can’t believe how many people want to trade Flynn. I for one wouldn’t like to see it…in fact I’m jumping up and down on the side of how foolish that would be.

    Let’s not be spoiled by the fact that Wilson started and played every meaningful snap in 2012. Players get hurt routinely, and QBs are suceptable to signifigant injuries. You MUST have a quality, experienced back ready at any moment. Flynn knows the playbook and the players. That’s not easily replaced.

    Do we really need another 3rd round pick that badly? Think about it folks. He aint bitchin, so why rip up that insurance policy?

  45. No, I didn’t say that. I said 2013 3rd round pick and 2014 conditional pick. But if Matt Flynn can prove that he’s a decent NFL Starter, that conditional pick will become a High Round Pick in 2014.

    Go read my post at 8:23 AM

  46. Let’s review the three decision makers who were on the same team with Flynn and had an opportunity to bring him over on the cheap -

    Joe Philbin – Flynn’s OC his entire career in Green Bay. Had Matt Moore at his starting QB. He made an effort but it was minimal given the 2 year, $13m contract Flynn signed with Seattle. That was barely above Charlie Whitehurst money. Some called this the worst starting QB situation in the NFL that offseason.

    Gus Bradley – Starting QB is Blaine Gabbert or even Chad Henne. This is the worst starting QB situation in the NFL right now.

    John Idzrik – Starting QB is Mark Sanchez. David Garrard has been signed to compete. Kevin Kolb might be signed as well. This is the second worst situation in the NFL (without Kolb).

    Yet, none of these last 2 with a bottom starting QB situation will even pony up a 4th or 5th round pick for a very modest salary? What does that say about Flynn?

  47. seahawksteven777 says:

    I don’t get the talk or hope of Flynn getting dealt for a 3rd round pick and such. I understand it’s probably wishful thinking but put yourself in the other teams shoes. Would YOU give up a 3rd to acquire Flynn if say you’re the Bills when there are numerous other serviceable quarterbacks similar to Flynn that can be had for almost nothing?

    Not trying to bash anyone because I’d be pretty giddy if we were able to get that from someone but it’s just not a reasonable trade from a realistic perspective.

  48. Yankinta, we’re all entitled to our opinions. I’ve seen your earlier posts, and feel bad that you have to put in so much effort to explain your position.

    I personally don’t see a scenario in which moving Flynn becomes a good move. Time will tell if JS has other ideas, though.

    You’re right in that some players are good at managing their game to limit or avoid injury. But never say never.

  49. RDPoulsbo says:

    nate: You’re comparing last year’s market to this year. Last year had several starting quality QBs in the draft, including Tannehill and Weeden. There were plenty of starters to go around last year. Not so much this year. As for the guys you list, they are proven failures, especially Palmer and Palmer given his age. Flynn is maybe unproven, but the rule of thumb is if a QB shows he shouldn’t be a starter, then he shouldn’t be brought in to start…of course T-Jack was the exception, right? Right?

    And yes, if those 3 QBs get drafted in the 1st, the QB cupboard will be bare with a couple teams still holding 2nd round picks with no QB and their potential pink slips, so the bidding will go up. If Glennon is still out there in the 2nd, they will probably try to use their 2nd to get him. It’s simple supply and demand.

  50. seahawksteven777, As we know, our Front Office is getting a ton of respect around the league right now. Yes, they will copy our methods when it comes to solving the QB needs. This means, they will look for a stop-gap QB, without committing Kolb money, while they look for the Franchise QB in the draft.

    Yes, if I were them, I would trade Matt Flynn for a 3rd and 2014 conditional pick. I won’t lose credit if Flynn turns out to be a bust (i.e, Charlie Whitehurst) and I will gladly give up a high round 2014 pick, if Flynn is a decent/above average NFL Starter.

    The alternatives (2 other options) could cost them their GM jobs.

  51. “Fitzpatrick has proven to be a below average NFL Starter. It’s lazy to compare him to Flynn.”

    yankita, as a long-suffering Bills fan as well as a Seahawks fan, I can’t let that statement pass. After two career starts (one of them in week-16-garbage-time) Matt Flynn has yet to prove anything close to what Ryan Fitzpatrick has demonstrated over the 74 games he’s played in.

    Matt Flynn’s two starts:

    2010:
    24-of-37, 251 yd, 3 TD
    2011:
    31-of-44, 480 yd, 6 TD

    Ryan Fitzpatrick’s best games:

    2010:
    29-of-43, 382 yd, 4 TD
    21-of-34, 316 yd, 4 TD
    20-of-30, 220 yd, 3 TD
    2011:
    17-of-25, 208 yd, 4 TD
    28-of-46, 264 yd, 3 TD
    26-0f-39, 264 yd, 3 TD
    29-of-46, 307 yd, 2 TD
    31-of-47, 316 yd, 2 TD
    27-of-40, 369 yd, 2 TD
    2012:
    22-of-35, 208 yd, 3 TD
    27-of-35, 225 yd, 3 TD
    18-of-32, 195 yd, 3 TD
    27-of-40, 337 yd, 2 TD
    22-of-39, 350 yd, 4 TD

  52. Pabs – you don’t know that – at all. They may have OFFERED at 4th and JS said no!

    Also, In the Miami situations the HEAD coach wanted Tannehill so that complicated matters

    it is quite possible when Pete said at the end of the season they planned on keeping Flynn, he was telling the truth.

    IF someone came in and offered a something crazy high I am sure they would take it, but they have no “need” to just dump him.

  53. Stevos, I’m sorry but I don’t think you’ve heard the infamous Prank Phone Call that was made the Bills GM last week. You should listen to it. He was very clear on what he thinks of Fitzpatrick on the phone. :) Apparently, he also believes that Fitzpatrick is not an NFL starter.

    Matt Flynn on the other hand has not had an Opportunity so we cannot conclude either way. :)

  54. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    nate, not agreeing or disagreeing with either of you but…palmer/fitz/cassell are know commodities in that they are know to suck canal water. at least with flynn there is a bit of unknown there. let’s face it he has looked good in his two starts. the above 3 haven’t put two good starts in a together in years. now will someone give up a 3rd for flynn? doubt it but i never thought we would get squat for curry either.

  55. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’m simply saying with Seattle pushing for the Superbowl now, so Flynn is more of a $5 mil luxury, not a need. His value is more in trading him so they can get a player to contribute on the field now than keeping him in a year where starting QBs are in high demand. Seattle’s a team that can get by signing Palmer, Cassell or Kolb on the cheap, not a team like the Cards, Jets, Jags, Bills or arguably the Raiders or Vikings. Coaches and GMs will need to do what they need to do to try to hold onto their jobs, even if it means getting a guy with promise to start this year and try to get by until they can find a better option when the market gets better. It’s not hoping it happens, it’s just the way I see it on a pure cost vs. benefit basis.

    Besides, if you believe any of those QBs mentioned are starting quality QBs for coaches on the hot seat, then you would have to believe they would be good #2s at a cheaper price and also allow them to keep guys like Kam or Tate next year for another SB run.

  56. yankita, the Bills decided that Fitzpatrick is not their starter at the inflated contract they offered him. They couldn’t keep paying his salary and they were smart to cut him. Likewise, if the Seahawks had Tarvaris Jackson on their roster, we would be smart to cut Matt Flynn and his inflated salary.

    No coach in the NFL – no one in 5 years – has ever picked Matt Flynn as their team’s starter.

    Fitzpatrick has won 27 games and thrown 92 TDs in 8 years
    Flynn has won 1 game and thrown 9 TDs in 5 years

    Flynn might be a capable starter for some team someday, but so far every coach in the NFL has passed on him as their starter. The only people who think he’s Jesus are a few Seahawks fans. Its time for the Flynn-sanity to end.

  57. If you cut Flynn and pay for a back-up to come in, how much or you really saving considering the hit you take even if Flynn leaves? Also, are we that deseperate for a 3rd rd or lower pick?

  58. lol, I was saying trade Matt Flynn, after the 75th overall pick last year. So I was never a Matt Flynn Fan at all. I am just being Real.

    Fitzpatrick had a chance to start and failed.
    Matt Flynn has never had a chance to start.

    Most of those coaches and GMs that passed on Matt Flynn (when they had a QB need) are FIRED now. What does that say about them? :)

  59. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    RDP, couldn’t agree more . i am a coach on the hot seat and i am going to bring in a QB that got his last coach fired? i didn’t really like coaching anyways,lol.
    COME ON MAN!

  60. TruBlu – again, TJack would be that bargain backup QB who is the perfect fit and has experience with our coaches and players. I don’t see any other way to dump Flynn’s salary and not leave ourselves vulnerable at backup QB.

    Besides, BobbyK and me really want good old TJack back. Where is Bobby today?

  61. If you can guarantee that Wilson won’t get hurt, then by all means trade Flynn. If you can’t guarantee that Wilson won’t get hurt, you’d better have a good insurance policy or a great team can have an entire season destroyed by one injury to its QB. I wrote this last week and it sums up my feelings on keeping Flynn 100%.

    http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/03/04/matt-flynn-should-remain-with-seattle-seahawks/

  62. Stevos – I’m not taking the bait. :)

  63. Good, Bobby and I agree. Time to bring back Tjack!

  64. RDPoulsbo says:

    TruBlu: Flynn won’t get cut or traded for a pick that’s 4th or lower. The cap cost is about $2 mil lower to trade him vs. cut him because of the guaranteed portion of his salary so that’s a different matter. Also if he’s let go and another team picks him up and he’s decent, that could mean a compensatory pick in 2015, so there’s little benefit to trading him for a 3rd day pick.

  65. No one can guarantee that RW won’t get into a car accident next month….but if the offer is higher then 3rd round pick, I know JS/PC will not say No.

  66. Yeah TJack fit soooo well that they signed Flynn AND drafted RW – and never gave Tjack a real chance after that.

    It was pretty clear he was #3 in the pecking order here and they didn’t really want to use him. He wanted out and they let him out and still got something for him!

  67. chuck_easton says:

    TruBlu,

    There is no real value to releasing Flynn. That is the one optin that I think is entirely off the table. Here are the breakdowns:

    FLYNN ON THE TEAM:

    $7.25 million of salary against the cap.

    FLYNN TRADED:

    $4 million still goes against the cap ($3.25 million savings.)

    FLYNN RELEASED:

    $6 million against the cap immediately ( $ 1 million savings).

    So, to trade Flynn team realizes an added $3.25 million, but now has to find, sign and pay a backup. Even bargain basement backups are getting in the range of 2 million. Actual savings 1.25 million.

    To release Flynn 1 million saved, but now we have to sign a backup. There goes the million and likely more.

    As things look unless Seattle desperately needs the $3.25 million cap savings minus the cost for a new backup they have no urgency to trade Flynn.

    Flynn and Wilson combined only count $7.75 mill towards the cap this year. There are quite a few teams paying that to just one QB.

    My bet is Flynn stays unless some team comes in and offers something totally crazy. I don’t see that happening with Cassell, Kolb, Fitzpatrick, Quinn, Tebow, Campbell, and a few I’m forgetting all available for no trade compensation.

  68. Nice analysis, RD and Chuck. Time to send your resumes to Schneider.

  69. chuck_easton, what about next year’s Cap number?? Are we really gonna pay him 7 million ?? You’d just release him without getting anything back?

    Thank God, JS/PC is smarter than that….

  70. On another note – I know we don’t “need” him but would anyone draft Tyrann Mathieu – “HoneyBadger” if he was still around at 56?

  71. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chuck again which one of those QB’s didn’t get his coach fired?

  72. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    if i am a coach i am not bringing them in for anything other than 3rd string they suck.
    now i think flynn won’t move because A.contract/picks

  73. Yakinta – so basically you say, trade him for whatever now just so we get something out of him. (don’t refer back to your previous posts because you just contradicted those)

    Never mind the fact it will cost us MORE in cap space to trade or release him THIS year. Any space we WASTE this year we lose for next year

  74. HawkfaninMT says:

    @XCMan: 56? No 4th round? Yes 3 Round? Maybe
    Just my opinion

  75. xcman, when did I say that?? lol., read my very first post at 8:23 AM,, scroll up and read. :)

  76. I am saying, if we wait until next year, the Demand won’t be so high anymore, so we will have to release him for nothing. We won’t pay him 7 plus millions!!!

    Gotta trade while the demand is high.

  77. Ewalters7354 says:

    Trade the best backup in the league? If you are making a “Super Bowl” run you don’t trade Flynn.Even if RW takes care of himself some injuries can’t be avoided.

    I will admit I’m tired if the Red Bryant experiment though. Injuries or not.Sorry but I couldn’t hold it in any longer.

  78. RDPoulsbo says:

    As I’ve said, my opinion is just as valid as everyone else’s. If everyone was in agreement, then this blog would be a boring place.

    I don’t think they even have Mathieu on their board. JS/PC have said they do have a minimum height for CB. They sure love their tall CBs. I’d have to believe just the 5’9″ height doesn’t meet that height. They do need a nickel CB who could possibly be a future starter though. Wreh-Wilson from Connecticut seems to be an intriguing middle round prospect though.

  79. Chuck – nice analysis. I always thought the number that should be looked at is not what Flynn is costing us, but what the team has tied up in the QB position. As you pointed out, it is not that bad relative to other teams. I would stay pat on our QB’s.

  80. You have to wonder if KC would’ve made the deal for Alex Smith if they knew Kolb would be available off the scrap heap? Wouldn’t Reid prefer a QB he’s far more familiar with? I’d guess so.

    I don’t think Flynn is going anywhere. So long as RW’s mindset isn’t altered by the fact that Flynn is making a ton more $$$, the Hawks are actually ahead of the game in terms of money locked up in the QB position – that is, they aren’t paying more than a fraction of what the NE’s, DEN’s, DAL’s, and ATL’s of the NFL are paying for their QBs. Seattle is getting the most bang for their buck in the league and it’s not even close.

  81. “I will admit I’m tired if the Red Bryant experiment though. Injuries or not.Sorry but I couldn’t hold it in any longer.”

    Interesting comment, Ewalters. Not that I agree, but how to value Red Bryant is an important debate this team must have internally.

    I would say that Red’s best games as a DE have coincided with the most dominant Seahawks defensive performances in the past five years. This makes him among the most important players on the team. On the other hand, he’s played only one 16 game season in which he wasn’t limited by injuries at some point. He’s a great and frustrating player.

  82. chuck_easton says:

    Yankinta,

    Let’s just say for argument sake (and because my money is on this happening) Flynn is still a Seahawk in 2013.

    We get insurance for any unforseen injury to Wilson in a year where it’s win now. Going to an unproven, or worse yet, rookie backup even for 2 or 3 games could mean the difference between a home play-off game and not making the play-offs at all.

    2014 rolls around and there are still no takers for a trade. Flynn can be released in 2014 at a total cap hit of $2 million. That’s 2 million less than what it would cost to TRADE him this year AND we got another year of his services.

    And I wait for rebuttal…

  83. GeorgiaRay says:

    I’m with yankinta…..lets trade all of our 7th round draft picks for 3rd rounders, and future provisionals!! Our guys are the best and deserve it, plus we want it, so it must be so!!!

    Git ‘r dun…..

  84. GeorgiaRay says:

    *sarcasm*

  85. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    lol, chuck. no rebuttal. i have agreat idea let’s move red back to DT and tell him make it work. i don’t know how you can get 4 blocked field goals and extra point and not be a good DT

  86. beavercleaver says:

    And for all those saying TJack is a “cheap” alternative, he was resigned by Buffalo in Feb. for $4.5 million! He costs almost as much as Flynn! and he was behind Flynn on the depth chart.

  87. CDHawkFan says:

    I have ask you before but you will conveniently ignore the question, prove the demand for Flynn is high (reference some articles by NFL connected people). I think you are making that up and it looks foolish, hence the bashing from multiple people.

    Also, I thought I read that the Bills release of Fitzpatrick didn’t save hardly anything in cap space, like less than 200k. But who cares, it’s the Bills.

  88. chuck_easton, you are basically saying, you’d turn down trade offer if someone were to offer you, at least 3rd round pick and 2014 conditional pick for Matt Flynn? That is way too high of a price for an insurance, without even thinking about the cap numbers…..

    We cannot live in fears. Our FO is known to take chances and that is why all of a sudden, the entire league is showing respect and copying our methods.

    I’m just glad you’re not running our FO and our FO is a forward thinking group. :)

  89. beavercleaver says:

    Per james Walker of ESPN, ” However, it is somewhat baffling that Buffalo made it a priority to re-sign backup quarterback Tarvaris Jackson (one year, $4.5 million) and backup cornerback Leodis McKelvin (four years, $20 million) to sizable contracts before getting Levitre in the fold.”

  90. beavercleaver, if you only listen to talking heads on ESPN or other networks, then I don’t know what to say to you…. smh.

  91. GeorgiaRay says:

    Again (without the sarcasm),

    Please explain the logic of any NFL front office who was uninterested in a 7th round draft pick, UFA, with 2 NFL starts while he was available, trading away a 3rd rounder and a conditional future….? Bad math to me…

  92. James Walker missed important details on Jackson’s contract – like $4.5m is the max value if he starts most of the season. If he’s a backup, it drops down to under $2m.

  93. Yakinta – I’m just glad you’re not running our FO and our FO is a forward thinking group. The very same is true for you.

    I don’t want you putting us in a stupid situation that WASTES cap space and available cash. Which are the most prized commodities in todays NFL.

    As Chuck has said, and I have said. IF the team gets a HIGH draft pick or Multiple draft picks we would expect them to trade Flynn. The point is there ISN’T anyone beating down the door to get him

    and you reply “Thank God, JS/PC is smarter than that….” IMPLYING – trade him for anything this year so we “get something for him” totally contradicting yourself from earlier.

  94. I’m betting Matt Flynn stays put this year unless some kind of “know you off your feet” offer is presented to PC/JS. I keep looking at the overall positional cost and even keeping Flynn we’re in really good shape there and Flynn doesn’t seem to be squawking and making clubhouse noise to be traded.

    For the same reasons I also think we’ll keep McQ. He can play 4 different o-line positions, so whether he is a starter or a backup, the guy has experience, he stays healthy, and from a positional standpoint his ROI is much greater than his cost. In fact his greatest value may be in a back-up role because it allows us to carry one less OL, knowing he can step in for anyone of 4 guys.

  95. beaver — Tarvaris Jackson’s contract with Buffalo is 1 year for $1.75 million plus incentives. Affordable.

  96. Paul McQuistan is the swiss army knife of our offensive line. Versatile, dependable, valuable.

    And yet, the mullett haircut is definitely a problem:
    http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3711/paul-mcquistan

  97. chuck_easton says:

    yankinta,

    What I said was IF some team came forward with a CRAZY offer the team should and likely would do the trade. And yes, I consider your idea that some NFL team is just salivating to hand Seattle a 3rd this year and a conditional 2014 for Flynn a CRAZY offer. So I don’t see it happening…

    Now, back to your idea. Where is this team? Name names. Why would they offer Seattle a 3rd, let alone throw in another pick? Who are they trying to outbid? Where is the value for them?

    waiting…

    Still waiting…

    Oh, and while I was waiting Cassell was released by KC and has already signed with Minnesota so don’t mention the Vikes as a likely trade partner.

  98. Keep waiting, chuck. I liked your earlier argument showing the costs of keeping or cutting Flynn. I wish this topic would go away (but alas, we’ll need to beat it to death and still get nowhere). JS said best at the combine. They are in a good place with their QBs…next year is a whole new ball game.

    Any other big trades today?

  99. The Vikings picked up Matt Cassel…that’s one less QB on the waiting list.

  100. I keep waiting to see where Steven Jackson goes. Denver??? heck, why not

  101. Oops, I see he is now an Atlanta Falcon.

  102. Southendzone says:

    On Flynn,

    Exactly what Chuck said. Look at who’s out there now
    Kolb, Flynn, Fitzpatrick. 2 of them cost you no picks and probably a smaller contract, Flynn cost draft picks and you pick up his contract.

    What we need is another team with Andy Reid running it so they are willing to outbid no other takers with an offer that stinks of desperation.

    Barring another team like this willing to overpay when there’s no reason to do so, we are NOT going to get the miracle 3rd round pick offer for Flynn.

  103. yankinta says:

    lol,, that is why I said it’s on my wish list. Back to my original post at 8:23AM. I am sure y’all can read. :)

    If you don’t think there aren’t any teams that are interested or they are not already talking based on what the talking head on ESPN are saying,, then u r Naive!!! Smh…

  104. This offseason is already messing with one of my FF teams (3 player std. keeper).

    Harvin plus Lynch and Wilson and Seattle D.

    Not trying to be a homer it just came out that way along with Rogers, Cobb, Decker, T. Smith, Blackmon, A. Brown an A. Rodriguez, Moreno, Sproles and Ballard. Also Denver D.

    Going to make for some interesting choices out of Seattle.

  105. Forgot to add Jordy Nelson also.

  106. Yes Yakinta we can – clearly right now you can’t

  107. RDPoulsbo says:

    Georgia: Wouldn’t you say a guy like Tom Brady is worth more than a 6th round pick? Cassel was traded for a 2nd after being drafted in the 7th by the Patriots. It’s called manufacturing value using player development. It’s not Seattle’s responsibility that he pan out elsewhere. It’s the perception that he could vs. known commodities that haven’t. If he were widely considered a franchise QB, we’d be saying he’s worth a 1st or high 2nd. Again, don’t confuse last year’s market with this year. I don’t think any trade would come until the draft. That’s when GMs and coaches will especially be under pressure to deliver while they watch their QB options dwindle. Right now, teams are thinking of taking care of things in the draft, only not everyone can.

  108. yankinta says:

    lol xcman,, nice comeback. lmbo

  109. RDPoulsbo says:

    Yes, there are QB options out there that are cheaper and cost no picks, but they are cheap and cost nothing because they’ve proven they can’t deliver. No GM on the hot seat would consider them options when their job is on the line. Cost and value are completely separate things. You could give JaMarcus Russell an NFL minimum contract right now. That sure would be cheap, but it sure wouldn’t be good.

  110. chuck_easton says:

    Poulsbo,

    But the issue is supply AND demand. We have the supply. We have a quality guy sitting on our bench that very well could/should be a starting QB in the NFL.

    Ok, great. Where’s the demand? The year of the rookie QB run that saw guys like Ponder, Gabbert, Locker, Tebow and such go in the 1st round was the perfect storm of draft years for incoming QB’s.

    This year, not so much. Most teams already have their starter and are firmly entrenched in their choice.

    Is there a possibility that Flynn is better than some of the guys starting? As a Flynn supporter last year I’d say yep, you betcha…

    Is there a team out there that is RIGHT NOW, TODAY, AS WE SPEAK, so unhappy with their QB choice that they would happily give Seattle a draft pick and take on Flynn’s salary?

    That’s why I challenged yankinta to name names. Who is this team? Even if it’s just wild speculation, make a pitch. Sell me on it. Tell me why it could happen.

    It isn’t enough to just say “there are plenty of teams out there…really trust me…I know more than you…I’m glad you aren’t running this team…you are niave and know nothing…”

    I’m more than willing to be won over. I still haven’t heard the Who, What, When, Where, Why and How that all good reporters are taught to sell their breaking story.

    Here, I’ll help. The only team I see out there with a desperate need at QB is Arizona. Two problems there. 1) they just signed Drew Stanton to come in and be the latest attempt at QB saviour 2) They are seriously considering releasing Kolb because they have too many QB’s 3) they are IN OUR DIVISION

  111. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    the great part about all this conjecture is that flynn will or won’t be here the rest of this year based on what the front office thinks is best without consulting any of us. i would much rather talk other possible free agent pick ups or draft than keep kicking this dead horse.feel free to kick away thou the horse is dead it doesn’t mind.

  112. chuck_easton says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma,

    But you are missing the whole point. When I coached my son’s soccer team we always taught the kids “if it moves, kick it…if it doesn’t move, kick it until it moves…”

    Maybe if we keep kicking the dead horse it will get up and start moving!

  113. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chuck, who/oakland, why because they can cut palmer and save a ton of cap room, offer 4yh this year 5th next. my guess is thou he is not going anywhere because they just don’t care to give him away for that. i would feel bad for flynn going to oakland thou. another idea trade 2nd or third picks. ok i am done with this horse.

  114. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    lmao chuck. Jacksonville got a good young DT under contract they mite swap?

  115. RDPoulsbo says:

    chuck: As I mentioned earlier, look at the Bills, Jets, Jags, or Cards. Those teams alone means one of them will be left out trying to get Geno Smith, Barkley or Glennon. Then there’s pressure to at least bring in competition in Minnesota and Oakland. That’s why I feel if there will be a trade, it will happen during the draft. A 3rd round pick and $5 mil for 1 year (it’s not likely he’d play out that 3rd year of his contract no matter his performance) with no long term cap issue isn’t much when you consider they’re looking for a starting QB. In each of those cities, coaches or GMs are on the hot seat, so they don’t have the luxury of tanking a season with a guy like Palmer to try again in 2014.

    It seems we all forget that PC was potentially on the hot seat last year if he couldn’t produce a QB. That was enough to bring in Flynn on the contract he got in a year when there were a lot of quality QBs in the draft. These coaches or GMs are actually on the hot seat with even fewer options. That’s why there’ll be a market come draft time.

  116. freedom_X says:

    I think it works the other way around, using Seattle as a example. A QB-needy team will secure a veteran QB before the draft. They will have identified the best QB for their situation and they’ll try to acquire him ASAP (which is what Seattle did.)

    They won’t wait for draft day because then it’s up to chance whether they’ll get the guy they want (either as a veteran or as a draft pick.) The exception of course, is if the team owns a top-2 or 3 pick.

    As we all know now, if Seattle knew they’d get Wilson in the draft they might not have signed Flynn at all.

    If a team was counting on a QB in the draft, they had better make sure ahead of time they’re in draft position to get one. And if they fail, I would say they’re pretty incompetent. Almost all teams have their veteran in place well before the draft. The only common exception is if a team is desperate because they lose their QB unexpectedly (injury, etc.)

  117. martygivens says:

    The Wilson’s are an amazing family – truly inspiring! Glad to have Russell as the face of the ‘Hawks! Hope he stays here his entire career (and maybe he can talk his sister into playing at UW)!

  118. Hammajamma says:

    Re: O’Neil. He’s no fool. He may be goofy, but he has a better than average insight into the NFL game. Some of that doesn’t always translate well in print when you’re talking to the masses, but he’s a pretty sharp little leprechaun.

  119. RDPoulsbo says:

    Flynn was probably the 2nd best FA out there after Manning last year. I’m not counting Brees since he was going to be franchised if he didn’t sign. If Seattle didn’t get Flynn, would the fanbase have settled for a guy like Kerry Collins or Kyle Orton as potential starters from the free agent market? Those guys sucked, but Flynn was the guy unproven guy with potential most people thought was the odds on favorite to start even after Wilson was drafted. Flynn was just as unproven then as he is now in the eyes of the league. Instead of those guys we all see as washed up, has beens/never weres from 2012, we’re talking about a different set of guys like Palmer, Kolb or Fitzpatrick who are just as much the washed up QBs of the league as those 2012 guys. There’s nobody in the FA market with potential this year. That’s why the 49ers got as much as they did out of Smith. Those GMs are going to start feeling that hot seat come April, and they’re not going to be credible if they’re stuck trying to talk up Gerrard or Stanton.

  120. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    leon signs with pats

  121. CDHawkFan says:

    Freedom, I see it the other way. First off, Seattle didn’t have to trade for Flynn, he was a FA signee. The Hawks are in the driver seat, if they identify someone they like in the draft this year and pick them, then they will trade Flynn during or after the draft for a pick next year. A pick next year will be better value since its a year away, and the team/GM getting Flynn will not be looked at as taking a big risk since most people are ‘win now’. I think for the Hawks to agree it would need to be a 3rd next year, which is about the value of a 4th this year. Possible, but they have to find a desperate front office.

  122. CDHawkFan says:

    Should have said, if they pick someone in the draft this year AND the have an offer for Flynn for at least a 3rd (to replace the Harvin pick), I think they will pull the trigger to free up some $.

  123. So we would be better with trading Flynn and having some of his salary still count against the cap AND getting T-Jack back AND paying his $4.5 million salary? Am I missing something?

  124. RDPoulsbo says:

    Finding a guy in the draft to help you win now like someone who could be part of a d-line rotation, someone who can pass protect better than Breno, a #2 TE that won’t drop more balls than he can catches or even just provide ST help. In any case, a guy who can be on the field to contribute week in, week out not insurance against your worst fears. If they want to win now, then they should do everything they can to win now.

  125. Good for Leon! I didn’t think he’d be on the market long…still too much potential there. Only problem I have with it is that I hate the PATS! ;-)

  126. SeahawkFan12 says:

    Trading Flynn is the best option. Please stop making it sound like we are doomed without him, should Wilson go down. His talent is underwhelming, thus the lack of interest in him from QB-needy teams. Please get over the man-crush with mediocrity.

  127. SeahawkFan12 says:

    If cutting him would not be as detrimental against the salary cap, my supposition is Flynn would have been cut already.

  128. chuck_easton says:

    SeahawkFan12,

    No man crush there at all. We are all madly in mancrush love with Wilson, didn’t you get the memo?

    But there has to be somebody to be a backup. So, look at it this way.

    Chase Daniels just signed a 3 year $10 million (yes that’s over 3 million a year) deal to be Alex Smith’s backup in KC.

    So, we trade Flynn. Even after the trade he counts 4 million against the cap. We get a whopping 3.25 million savings. We then go out and spend 2 to 3 million of that to bring in another backup that doesn’t know the system. Yeah, the team really needs that extra $250K.

    It’s not about the money. It’s about having a quality backup. If there is no savings in trading Flynn, then why do it? Only reason you trade him is if some team completely pulls a Panic buy and gives Seattle a 2 or a 3 come draft day. If that happens then bubye Mr. Flynn and have a great year.

    Why give Flynn away for some draft pick in the 4-7th round range only to have to pay someone else to come in that is going to cost pretty much the same as the guy you already have?

    So, SeahawkFan12, when you go to your business tomorrow you are going to fire the number two guy who has been with you for the last year and then go out and hire some new guy for pretty much the same price just because it isn’t good to have that number 2 guy breathing down your number 1′s neck? Great way to run a business.

  129. SeahawkFan12 says:

    Great post, chuck. I respect that, and my point was IF we are talking about backup QBs moving/staying/etc then trade him and get a guy who fits in our offense better. I realize Flynn is not a statue in the pocket, but he’s far from fleet-footed and athletic–despite what the lunatic Flynn die-hards will have you believe. I still think he’
    s a backup at best. He’s just not a leader, a starter, nor someone who will take a franchise to the Super Bowl. He’s a maintenance guy at best, so keep him in that role and pray Wilson never goes down.

  130. SeahawkFan12 says:

    And chuck, as a business owner in reality, I would not fire a great employee if he fit a role we both knew he was destined to fit. My #2 will always be a #2…at best. I’m always on the lookout for awesome talent, so nobody feels complacent or cozy, and constantly pushes themselves to excel. And I get that sense from the FO, too. My #2 doesn’t even compare to my #1. Just like Wilson v. Flynn. Good post, Chuck, and I totally get your point. ;)

  131. never heard anyone on here call Flynn, “far from fleet-footed and athletic–despite what the lunatic Flynn die-hards will have you believe”

    again revisionist by Lunatic ;)

  132. bbnate420 says:

    A little reality:

    Not that it will happen, but the TJack contract is 2.25 mil if a backup. As much savings as releasing Flynn, 3.25 mil against the 2013 and 2014 caps. If you trade him for just a pick, you save 5.25 mil against the 2013-2014 caps minus whatever it costs for his replacement. The point would be you get your backup and a pick. Not likely to happen, and I wouldn’t do it unless the pick was significant.

    Palmer, 4,000+ yards, 22 TDs, 14 INTs, and a 85.3 QB rating in 2012 playing for the sorry ass Raiders, sorry E. That makes him a bad starting QB? I honestly think some people here don’t even bother to research a player before they make definitive statements about them. His contract is huge starting this year, a 15.3 mil cap hit in 2013. He will be old in 10 years when they are finally any good, sorry again E. That’s why the Raiders would release him. A team doesn’t have to pay that crazy salary if they sign him after he is released.

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