Seahawks Insider

Carroll: T.O. show debuts in Denver

Post by Eric Williams on Aug. 16, 2012 at 1:53 pm with 67 Comments »
August 16, 2012 3:24 pm
Seattle Seahawks' Terrell Owens during NFL football training camp, Wednesday, Aug. 8, 2012, in Renton, Wash. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

The Seattle Seahawks had their last full practice today in anticipation of Saturday’s game at Denver, the first road game of the exhibition season.

Seattle will hold a walk-through practice Friday morning at the team’s Renton headquarters before travelling to Denver later in the day.

And for the first time we’ll see Terrell Owens in a game for the Seahawks, according to head coach Pete Carroll.

“He’s going to play this weekend,” Carroll said. He’s ready to go. He had two good weeks of work, and he came in, in great shape. So he’s ready to go. I’m not going to tell you how many plays it will be, we’ll see how it goes. But he’s going to play early in the game.”

Owens worked at flanker with the second unit, but he did see a handful of snaps with the starters today. And Owens continues to make some explosive plays during practice, particularly in red zone and on bubble screens on the perimeter of the defense. So even at 38, Owens still has the ability to create plays after the catch.

Carroll said he’s interested to see where Owens fits in with the rest of the receiver group.

“I like our group a lot,” Carroll said. “And we’ve become even more competitive, and more experienced with the guys who have come in to add to it. And we’re just going to wait. We don’t have to do anything right now. We’ll just keep giving these guys turns in practice, and get familiar and comfortable with them. And then also see them in the game and add it all up together at the end.

“But it’s a really good position group for us right now.”

Asked if Marshawn Lynch will make his preseason debut, Carroll once again was noncommittal.

“I’m not going to share that with you,” Carroll said coyly. “You’ll have to wait and see.”

Training camp officially over
Seahawks training camp officially came to an end this afternoon. And has they have done in the past, family and friends of the players attended practice today and had a barbeque afterwards.

Carroll believes that his team is ready for the meat of the preseason schedule after grinding through the first two weeks of camp.

“We’ve seen a bunch of guys,” Carroll said. “We’ve got a lot of information on our young guys, with these next few weeks and games being very important. But as far as the camp process and understanding how these guys learn. Do they fit? Kind of understanding the process of developing roles for them because we know what they can do, all of that’s moving.

“The quarterback process has been excellent. We’ve learned a ton. And guys have been very compliant to make it a really good camp. They’ve worked really hard to add to it on the field. So I’ve got not complaints at all.”

Hawks add a center
With backup centers John Moffitt (elbow) and Lemuel Jeannpierre (groin) out, the Seahawks added depth at that position by signing free agent Kris O’Dowd.

A USC product, O’Dowd spent some time with the N.Y. Jets last season, and has some familiar with Seattle’s zone blocking scheme, having played for assistant offensive line coach Pat Ruel at USC.

“He’s worked with Pat Ruel for a long time,” Carroll said. “So Pat will be able to communicate more quickly I think than maybe another guy, so the familiarity will help us in that regard. Those guys were up late last night, and they were up early this morning working on it. And he can’t get into pads until game day, so we won’t know a whole lot about him.

“But Kris is a good, tough, smart football player. And we know that about him.”

The Seahawks cut kicker Carson Wiggs for a second time to make room for O’Dowd.

Carroll said right now O’Dowd is an emergency guy, and Rishaw Johnson will work at center with the second unit.

Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll throws a football during team warm-ups before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Chicago, Sunday, Dec. 18, 2011. (AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast)

Carroll’s football throwing quest continues
Each year around his birthday, Carroll attempts to throw a football as far as his age. And with Carroll turning 61 on Sept. 15, the Seahawks once again are conveniently travelling to Denver again.

Last year Carroll threw a ball 62 yards, but he used a yellow football that looked conspicuously like a NERF football. Carroll said he will attempt that feat in the Mile High City again this year.

“I’m right where I need to be at this time,” joked Carroll. “Fortunately again we’re playing Denver in the preseason, right around my birthday. This is close enough. This does fall within the time frames that surround my birthday. So we will take that shot again.”

Injury update
Tight end Anthony McCoy (hamstring) and receiver Golden Tate returned to action today. Tate’s injury is unknown, but he did have his right hand taped up, the same one he fractured during offseason workouts.

New players sitting out today include receiver Ben Obomanu (neck) defensive lineman Pep Levingston and defensive end Jason Jones (knee). Others who did not practice include linebacker Matt McCoy (knee), defensive end Cordarro Law (ankle), tight end Zach Miller (head), cornerback Ron Parker (knee) and linebacker Mike Morgan (concussion). Cornerback Walter Thurmond (leg) and offensive lineman James Carpenter (knee) remain on the physically unable to perform (PUP) list.

Carroll said that Morgan and Miller will not play this week.

Carroll said that Obomanu has a pinched nerve in his neck, but he’s expected to play on Saturday. The same goes for tight end Cameron Morrah, who has been sitting out to nurse a sore toe that he had to deal with last season.

Parker came to camp with a sore knee, Carroll said, and likely will not play against Denver.

Linebacker coach Ken Norton Jr. also returned to practice after missing the last two days, but no reason has been given for his absence.

Answers to your questions

A couple people have asked about players eligible for the practice squad, including Ricardo Lockette and Kris Durham. As you know, the rules for eligibility for practice squad are convoluted. You need to only point to receiver Mike Haas being practice squad eligibility in 2009, even though he was active for nine games while with the Bears the year before.

I believe both Durham and Lockette are eligible for the practice squad this year.

Here’s a pretty good break down of the practice squad rules.

Also, someone asked why I believe Terrell Owens and Braylon Edwards will not both make the active roster.

I don’t believe Seattle will sign one of the two to be the fifth or six receiver on the team, because that player needs to be able to play special teams, or might not be on the active, 45-man roster for games. And I don’t believe strong personalities like Owens or Edwards will be able to keep quiet if they are not active for games.

The only wild card is if Sidney Rice is not healthy going into the regular season. In that scenario, keeping both players gives you some insurance and experience at the position.

Leave a comment Comments → 67
  1. Dukeshire says:

    Eric, you reasoning with regard to Edwards and TO makes sense to me. I would think with Seattle lack of depth at slpit-end, Braylon wins out, if it comes down to those two. (Rice’s health not withstanding.)

  2. Between Owens and Edwards it’s a really tough choice. I almost think Edwards is a better fit for us, until I read things like T.O. and his YAC abilities (bubble screens, etc.). I’m torn, but I also think only one of them can probably stay and be happy. Both stay and I’d be worried about one or both of them getting a bad attitude. If they do both happen to stay, I hope PC has the courage to drop them immediately if lockerroom problems arise. We don’t need NYJ’s type of problems with this young group of guys.

  3. JMSeaTown says:

    I think they end up keeping both TO and Braylon… Kickoff S/T are far less important since the rule change, IMO.

  4. bbnate420 says:

    Thanks for the answer, Eric.

  5. Hammajamma says:

    Eric, agree with your reasoning on TO/Edwards, but I don’t know if PC does. I think he takes the top six playmakers and let’s winning cure potential attitude issues.

  6. You also win games on special teams and I can’t see having guys that far down on the depth chart who cannot help us there, too.

  7. RDPoulsbo says:

    If you’re a #4 or #5 WR on a team that rarely uses 4 WR sets, you’re not a playmaker while sitting on the bench. You are one as a gunner who can get down field and force fair catches or down a ball inside the 10 yard line.

  8. Hammajamma says:

    So he keeps OBO over one of those guys, even if they dance in the end zone all preseason? I get the special teams logic, I just think he might value playmakers enough to find a way. Well see.

  9. HonHawksLSB says:

    TO looks so old in that picture. Has there ever been a successful WR in the NFL at age 38? I know he is a physical freak and all but the odds are stacked against him.

  10. HonHawksLSB says:

    I mean Pete looks younger than TO…

  11. HonHawksLSB says:

    Is that TO or Greg Oden wearing 10?

  12. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I hear so much love fest for Rice and Tate around here, however why would the FO even consider bringing in TO and Edwards if they were that good?
    Here’s hoping we find another baldwin or two soon.

  13. Sparky12 says:

    GeorgiaHawk-I think “insurance” comes to mind for one. Rice with his injuries, and Tate having great camps, but disappearing during the season.

  14. DanielleMND says:

    “Has there ever been a successful WR in the NFL at age 38?”

    Jerry Rice. 75 catches at age 38, 83 catches at age 39, and 92 catches at age 40.

  15. Well JS did say they were looking for a WR in the draft but that position didn’t fall they way the wanted to get a guy they liked. So they are looking.

    Rice – plays great – when he can play and they have to be prepared to go with or without him.

    Tate – Potential is great but it needs to come out one the field more often.

    I think the next 2 games will really shake out the WR some more

    1. GT did not stand out as a #1 guy but how will he do with TO and BE and maybe DB on the field at the same time.

    2. Edwards looked great against the lower string guys but what about the #1′s

    3. Can TO get open in a game. 7 on 7 is one thing but what about a different team

    4. Maybe we will see guys like Durham/Lockette/Butler working with specific duties on ST to see if they can make an impact there.

    This will be one battle – I will be watching at length. Last game I was keeping an eye on the lines :)

  16. Sparky12 says:

    One caveoat with Tate, he did start to come on late last year.

  17. Sparky12 says:

    oops- caveot! ( dont use them big words often! )

  18. It’s funny that we are talking TO VS. BE, when if these two are anywhere near their potential they are better than anything we have.

    If we started them at wideout 1 and 2 we field one of the finer tandems in the NFCW maybe NFC. Rice is not proven reliable and w/o him the rest are .500 club fodder.

  19. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Sparky12 – I hear you. It’s very frustrating to me to hear all the hoopla about Tate, and then a undrafted free agent comes in and gets it from day one.
    This team will do some amazing things if this wr situation becomes a strength, imo.

  20. I wouldn’t go so far as to crowns these guys “the best” just yet for 2 reasons

    1. Fitz and just about anyone are a Duo that would be very difficult to better

    2. Neither of these guys have proved themselves against another teams #1′s (yet)

    Hopefully we will see #2 happening in the very near future!

  21. GeorgiaHawk says:

    DanielleMND- Did you change your user name? I hope you didn’t do it because of the jerk comments posting last night and this morning. I liked you as nidhighe, however to each their own.

    BTW- Your postings are great and funny at times to.

  22. yellaman says:

    I would like to see if Lockette could get out on the field for special team. This argument that we have to keep obo for special teams purposes isn’t fair to the other guys fighting for a roster spot. I know rice, baldwin, edwards, and owens will not be much help on special teams but you can use lockette tate, butler and durham to see if they can play ST. Because obo isn’t the only guy who can play ST. I like the debate and just eant the hawks to get the best playmakers at the wr position. ST can find players from other reserve positions

  23. JMSeaTown says:

    Megatron is better than Fitz, & not just by a little. Fitz over Andre. I’d take a healthy 4.5 TO over brittle bones Sidney Rice… I’m gonna go out on a limb and say either TO or Braylon has a better season (stat wise) than Sid…

  24. Dukeshire says:

    DanielleMND – Jerry Rice… great call.

  25. Georgia… Totally agree on Tate… it also bothers me about the McCoy drops.. crap! The guy is paid to catch a football! Grrr….
    BTW, off topic, but are you in the Atlanta area? Move from the northwest? Just curious…

  26. The reference to “the Best” was to the NFCW which is why I only mentioned Fitz.

    I agree Rice is brittle but we still have not seen TO compete yet this season. Let’s not label him the savior until we at least see him PLAY a game or 2 – I don’t think he is a #1 guy anymore but still a potential valuable guy to have on your team!!!

  27. The thing about TO is that he’s done pretty well against our “D”, which as we know, isn’t too shabby… Just sayin…

  28. True but mainly in 7 on 7

  29. RDPoulsbo says:

    yellaman: What’s not fair about it? Obo is willing and capable of doing the dirty work on ST. The other guys are not. It’s always hard to get players willing to play ST, much less excel. How do you think Craig Terrill was able to stick on the 53 man roster for so long? It certainly wasn’t for his DT abilities in the last few years with the team. Contributing on ST is contributing to the team winning games. There’s no way you can deny that.

  30. RDPoulsbo says:

    To follow up, ST isn’t just throwing a bunch of backups out on the field about 10-15 plays a game to go run around and see what happens when the ball is kicked. Especially at that level, players have a job to do just like any other play. Most backups are weeded through every year to find ST guys. Guys like Lockette, Durham, etc. have obviously can’t play ST to the coaches’ satisfaction. It goes into a player’s overall evaluation when cuts are made, especially with bottom of the depth chart guys. Guys who are unlikely to see action on offense or defense because of the depth ahead of them, but can still suit up and make plays nonetheless.

    If Leon Washington didn’t return kicks, I’d bet money that he’d be cut. But making plays on ST isn’t just for the returners or kicker/punters. Getting by blockers to force a fair catch or having the alertness of downing a ball on the 1 without falling into the end zone is also making a play.

  31. yellaman says:

    RD I agree that depth guys need to play ST but my agrument is a guy ( like OBO) shouldn’t make the team if he is not one of the top ( top 6 WR) at his position. How do we know that Lockette, Tate, or Durham don’t want to play ST if it means they make the 53 man roster. I just don’t want the hawks keep Obo unless he is one of the Top 6 WR on this team. If this team is all about competition then it should be that way for each position no matter if your a first string player or in this case the 5/6th string players. Now if it is true that lockette, Durham and even tate don’t work as ST players then that should say alot about there willingness to make this team. If I was Lockette or Durham and even Tate I would be taking every opportunity to try and make this team and would be willing to play ST. I don’t think its fair Obo gets a pass as a WR if he is not one of the top 6. Thats my only agrument.

  32. GeorgiaHawk says:

    IBGoofy- I want all Seahawk players to do well, even when they leave, however when your biggest claim to fame in two and a half years is stealing maple bars, perhaps the FO would want to take a look at some other long shot options like they have.

    Lived in the Seattle area 24 years. moved to Georgia in 86. lived in the Atlanta area for 26 years. However Oregon and Tennessee are my two favorite states.

    Dukeshire is a lucky guy to live in Oregon, imo.

  33. yellaman says:

    Here’s my concern with the WR unit. lets say Rice is a go to start the season and then Baldwin, Edwards, and Owens show up as your #2-4 WR. It could happen Who should the team keep as its remaining 2 WR? Tate and OBO? What about Butler,Lockette and Durham? That’s my agrument about keeping Obo because of ST play. Tate, Obo, Butler, Lockette, and Durham better be willing to play ST because with this scenario we only have 2 postions for 5 guys and how do you say keep Obo as your 6th WR if he is the worst of the 5 guys. I don’t want the hawks to give up on another playmaker if he can play ST like Obo.

  34. Dukeshire says:

    RDPoulsbo – I couldn’t agree more with regards to your ST evaluation.

    GeorgiaHawk – I’ll be the first to admit I am lucky, I love living in Portland. Especially during summer, this is a special place. Get your ass out here in May…

  35. Soggybuc says:

    If Lockette could show he has what it takes to play ST he would have been on the active roster last year and not the PS! IMHO he doesn’t have the size to play gunner and make tackles, he’s a one trick pony and the roster only can support so many of those, everyone else earns the spot by virtue of ST play.
    Obo just isn’t capable of playing ST. he’s good at it! hence why he has had an NFL job since his rookie year.

    RD, only gripe I have is your dogging of CT, he was never a great DT but he was good enough to spell the front line guys. he could be trusted to do his job and thats very important when your filling out the back end of the roster.

  36. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’m not sure why you find it so unfair when on the one hand you have a guy who can play a position while not among the best at that position is when it comes to the 10-15 or so plays a game that determines field position. In Obo’s example, his WR ability plus ST ability = his overall ability to help the team win. Same goes with Farwell, who will probably make the team even though he probably wouldn’t make on his LB abilities alone.

    How do I know the guys you mention aren’t capable of playing ST? They have practice for this sort of thing and none of those guys have ever seen the ST play in preseason, this year or last. They surely have been put through the drills. It’s pretty standard that all coaching staffs look for ST contributors during TC. I think you discount ST play and the skill required to play it way too much.

  37. RDPoulsbo says:

    Soggy, CT was an OK 3-tech for a while. I’m not going to criticize him for the first few years he played. But especially the last 2 years or so, it was just brutal watching him go out there on defense. Still, I had no problem with him being on the team. He showed he could be a good ST contributor. He does have the franchise record for FG blocks.

  38. Georgia, gotta say Duke has the big advantage, Portland is awesome! Those Ore beaches & golf courses I’ve been to many times. 2nd week in July wife & I were in Portland. Like Nashville but don’t know much more about the state except that my Lady and I have seen some wild driving there, LOL! I’m back & forth from FL to Wa St. Love WA St…

    Do you recall my asking over and over what Tate’s status was during his rookie year? Like you, I’ve grown tired of his ‘potential’… Info on him that first year was very hush, hush…

  39. ST play goes beyond “willing” it must include “ability” to play it effectively.

  40. I want Pete to keep 7 wr’s. Rice is a china doll, and Tate still hasn’t proven himself over a full season. I really don’t have faith in many of our wr’s the way they treat the pigskin like a hot potato. I still have nightmares about that 08 season when Hass had no one to throw it to. At least TO is a physical specimen that is proven and hasn’t been injured many times in his career. And Edwards still may have his best years ahead of him if he stays hungry.
    1. Rice
    2. Baldwin
    3. Owens
    4. Edwards
    5. Tate
    6. Obomanu
    7. Butler

  41. Btw I could care less if TO looked like yoda as long as he produces.

  42. SeventiesHawksFan says:

    Hmmmmm, if I am following the reasoning of EW and several posters here:

    Obamanu on ST > in value than aging but healthy and fast T.O. who can:

    A. Step in for Sidney Rice in case of injury AND ALSO

    B. Be a true difference-maker 3rd or 4th receiver inside the red zone AT ANY TIME, including and especially when Rice is also on the field.

    If I am doing the likely math, Obamanu on ST is worth less than three additional TD’s for all opposing teams for the entire season. And his impact will be less than an average of three yards per return in terms of opponent’s kick return field position.

    In fact, it’s hard to argue that he’s even worth that much, because his ST play is simply not THAT critical nor irreplaceable. Obamanu, while solid and dependable, simply isn’t THAT talented or that kind of difference maker on kick return coverage.

    Whereas a healthy and capable T.O. on the field is worth at least three extra touchdowns for himself alone and one could reasonably postulate that he is also worth far more production for other playmakers around him, who will enjoy more single or mismatched coverages, especially inside the 20 yard line. He’s also worth an untold number of extra first downs in third down situations.

    What doesn’t seem to be appreciated here are the match up nightmares for an opposing defense with (choose your combination of) Winslow, Rice, Baldwin, TO, Edwards, Lynch, Miller, and possibly Tate or Butler on a compressed field. Under this scenario, someone who has the ability to open is going to be single covered with a too slow linebacker or too small corner.

    All of which will also take additional pressure off whichever new QB is going to be making the throw when the field becomes compressed.

    In my simple estimation: the value of the above combination of playmakers with TO as one of the available option > in value that Obo on ST. Far greater.

    While also on the subject of other receivers, let’s also agree that the likes of Lockette and Durham, while interesing downfield and stretch the field threats are quite simply not candidates to be your short yardage and precise route runners when the field gets smaller. So while their ability to stretch a defense with 60 yards left to go is nice and all, their current abilities simply don’t count for nearly as much when it really matters and an opposing defense is about to tighten up, bring heat and more confusing and exotic looks for our young QB’s to contend with.

    In addition, PC and JS were willing to bring TO to camp in the first place. Meaning some kind of decision or calculation was made prior to his arrival. He’s not the kind of player that gets to show up at camp and try out, unless they clearly feel that there is an important need or contingency that makes PC / JS consider him potentially NECESSARY.

    I would suspect that the decision was made prior to TO even showing up at camp that if he is healthy and shows that he’s still got flashes of the TO who is simple dangerous on the field AND he won’t be a major disruption to the team, then he makes the roster. And so far that seems to be precisely what’s happening.

    Lastly, I think Lockette and Durham are PS bound at best. And PC is simply NOT going to have both a young and still developing and learning Flynn (or Russell) AND ALSO have a young and still developing WR who both can’t get of of blocks in press coverage and can’t concentrate on catching the football on the field at the same time VERY OFTEN.

    And definitely not in critical situations. Which means you can’t use them much when you are inside your own 30. And you simply don’t want them on the field much when you are inside your opponent’s 20.

    So if I am betting on what PC / JS will decide: Rice, Baldwin, Tate are all the locks to make the team. Those three all know the playbook and system to start with (as do Butler and Obo).

    Edwards has played his way onto the team through his preseason and camp performance already. And he’s the physical specimen that PC seems to want.

    Butler, while not what PC seems to want in terms of size, is both enough of a downfield threat and a solid enough route runner in short and medium yardage (not quite Engram-esque yet though) who will also frequently enjoy single and nickel corner coverage on third down that he also makes the team. And he’s been playing with the #1′s in camp too much. I don’t think PC gives him those reps with his young QB’s if he’s not going to be around.

    I think the only real remaining decision left for PC is simply whether TO shows enough from here on out.

  43. Great rant other than I haven’t found a single post saying keep Obo over TO – Obo as the last guy yes- not in the top 4

  44. jchawks08 says:

    Fairly solid WR/ST debate here. It’s at times entertaining to see the different arguments to keep one guy over the other. I respect everyone’s opinion. Unless I’ve missed something in the daily threads, I haven’t seen much if anything about Durham or Lockette. Pretty sure we can consider them off the 53 man roster. So that leaves Rice, Baldwin, Owens, Tate, Edwards,and Obo. If they keep a 7th and I wouldn’t be shocked at all, then Butler. In that order.

    CVVI, Props to you as I just scrolled up to see if I missed anyone and I noticed your post and you’ve got the same set of guys in the same order as I. :D

    Anyway.. So how ’bout that QB battle? I think Flynn should start. lolol! Where’s Pabuwal? He take his ball and go home?

  45. jchawks08 says:

    And for the Tate haters, in 5 starts, he was 3rd on the team in receptions, and 2nd in receiving TD’s last year. Facts suck, I know..

  46. I realize that Obomanu has excelled at ST gunner the past couple of years, and he most likely is favored to keep his job as #6 WR and ST.

    But not necessarily. Consider some reasons this year may be different.

    1) Special Teams is a young man’s game. After 5 years, Obo may need to step aside for younger guys to take those hits.

    2) We have a number of younger, fast players on this roster now that weren’t here previously. Improved depth means improved special teams and potential replacements for Obomanu. Lane, Guy, and Toomer are young fast players who should all make the team and will be racing downfield on special teams.

    3) In an interview recently, Obomanu was a little hostile to the question of playing special teams. He didn’t want to talk about it. He may be willing to play ST when the season starts, but in camp, he would only talk about winning a WR spot.

    4) Who among us has seen special teams practice lately at the VMAC? I haven’t. I’d be interested to know which other players are practicing at the gunner position besides Obomanu.

  47. fijihawksfan says:

    I think it would be a real mistake to give up on Butler too soon. Remember that we traded 3rd, 5th, and 7th round picks to select him in the 3rd round a few years ago. He has game-breaking speed and is a tough little nut. Is it his fault a previous coach insisted on continually throwing him the fourth-down fade? Butler recently suffered a horrendous injury, a broken leg similar to what Leon Wahington went through, but he has shown he may be able to come all the way back from that, like Leon has. I also think we cannot justify keeping a wide receiver for his special team abilities, ie. Obe-wan. I think we cannot keep two geriatrics, ie. Edwards and Owens. I think we cannot keep two “maybes” in Durham and Lockette. Hence my keepers:

    Rice (PUP?)
    Tate
    Baldwin
    Butler
    Owens or Edwards
    Lockette or Durham

  48. Rice can NOT PUP he has already been in training camp

  49. seatowntp says:

    What has Durham done this year to earn a spot on this roster?

  50. The Tater-Haters piss me off. They’ve come out of the woodwork since training camp, but werent anywhere near so vocal at the end of last season, or in the offseason. Why the change? It certainly isnt because Tate has done anything wrong since last season–on the contrary, he’s done very well in camp and practices and did fine last week in limited playing time. Its becuase its easy to blame the state of our WR on Tate and his slow development, rather than the more complicated truth, that blame belongs in several places; Carrol and Schneider for buring a pick on Durham (so far a total dud), spending all the money on Rice only to see him break like glass every time he hits the ground, and not really doing much to improve the corps until they hit panic mode recently and signed three aging players…and all of the recievers who arent stepping up–Rice, Obo, Lockette, Tate, Butler–all of them have been underwhelming, all share blame.

    And Tate was a known project, which is why a guy that talented fell so far in the draft. He only played WR for two years before coming here, and obviously the lockout really hurt him last year. Now is the time for him to step up, and he’s shown every indication that he is, and will continue to do so.

    Of course, Tate is a bonehead and pathetically immature–or at least he was until this year. This year he’s fought through injuries and seems to have improved all facets of his game, including his attitude. I for one am sure he’s a lock to make the team, and am expecting big things from him this year.

    But we still need TO and Edwards to not only make the team, but step up bigtime in games. Becuase you know damn well that Rice and his stupid thick dreads are one turf bounce away from IR.

    I dont want Durham on this team. We need a skinny injury-prone inconsistent WR like we need T-Jack to start…

    I like Lockette, but he hasnt shown he’s ready to play yet. So far this preseason, it looks to me like we’ll end up with
    Rice
    Tate
    Baldwin
    Edwards
    and One or two more, between TO, Butler, Lockette, and OBO.

    Butler would be hard to let go, considering his route running and speed–and what happens if Baldwin gets injured? Butler is gonna make someone a great slot wr, it might as well be us.

    I think its gonna be a tough call. Lockette may not make the PS if we cut him, OBO is valuable for ST and until the last half of last year had reliable hands, TO is TO, and Butler…well, he’s still so fast and such a tough little dude how can you not root for him?

    Basically I have no idea who makes the team. I just take 5000 words to say so. But I think both Edwards and TO have a chance to make the team..we’ll see what they do in the Denver game…

  51. I’m not a tater hater, I have been excited about him ever since his crazy punt returns in Denver a couple years back in 2010. I’m just waiting for him to have his breakout year and grow the hell up. But It is true that we had high hopes for him as a 2nd rd pick and at least part of his slow growth process was due to his immaturity and attitude. He basically admitted to it during a recent interview. he hasn’t proven himself yet, but I hope he does soon.
    I agree butler could be very good, and we probably should keep TO and BE. Think about it, game on the line, would you trust the hands of Obo, Lockette, or Durham? Lockette has a habit of bobbling and then recovering to catch the ball.

  52. Dukeshire says:

    “Of course, Tate is a bonehead and pathetically immature–or at least he was until this year.” How he plays this year remains to be seen, but that’s exactly why there are so many “Tater-haters”

  53. SandpointHawk says:

    TO BE or not TO BE, that is the question…..

    Sorry I couldn’t help myself…

  54. jchawks08 says:

    Good one, Sandpoint!
    Yes, I’ll be the 1st one to admit that Tates progress has been slooooow going, but he is progressing as we saw specifically at the end of last year.
    I just go back to this video of his last year at Notre Dame: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Shq4-9Xn5M&feature=fvst
    My God, the highlights… I watched this after we drafted him and thought he’d be a star right away. Better late than never!

  55. ryanryan says:

    its a little early for me to speculate due to owens not having played in a game. lets just be happy that the qb play has been good enough to actually EVALUATE the receiver position, for that i am thankful.

    that said, here is my prediction without enough evidence to do so objectively:

    peanut brittle
    tater tot
    doug e fresh
    ‘dougie’
    jeaves
    sharpie
    obi wan

    cut:
    crash davis

    ps:
    rocket
    duck confit

  56. bird_spit says:

    Rice Cake
    Tate
    Baldwin
    TO
    Edwards
    Butler
    Lockette (ps)
    Durham(ps)
    Obo(cut)

    I would have 6 on the 53, and try to pass lockette and Durham to the ps. I loved obo, but those drops are too much, and it’s time to move on. I would have my scouts out there looking to grab upgrades when the cutdowns take place. I seriously doubt his is the season opening list, because we all know they are not happy with what they have, otherwise they would never have reached out to Owens. If we lose Lockette, I will still sleep well.

    I think WR is the leak link on this team. I think hawks are set at QB, and it’s a really good feeling.

  57. bird_spit says:

    *weak link

  58. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’m also one who has never liked Tate, but no one can deny that he turned it on late last season and all reports this offseason is he has carried it through TC and he’s arguably having the best camp of any of the WRs. All indications are the light has finally been turned, so I see no reason to continue to harp on the past.

    People holding out for Edwards and Owens need to remember both of these guys washed out of the league last year. Let’s not pretend they were the playmakers they once were. The the odds are these guys are more likely to revert back to the very reasons they were watching football at home on Sundays than to rejuvenate their careers at their age. At best, they are 1 and done guys like BMW.

  59. steffonator says:

    If BE and TO both happen to make it here with the Seahawks and do great, just think about the excitement across the Nfl, people are just going to have to see them play, it brings attention to us “way” out here in the boonies. Good Free agents keep picking East Coast teams to sign with. Maybe we’ll get a look. My brother-in -law back in Buffalo, who’s close to a few players on the team said TO was great in the locker room, injury and Stevie Johnson and new coaching got him cut, not his ability. These two guys can set a standard for our young players, heck TO’s going to the Hall of Fame. I hope they both do great Sat. What a year we might have. Lord have mercy… Go Hawks!!

  60. SeventiesHawksFan says:

    I don’t think PC/JS are part of the ‘Tater Hater’ crowd any longer, which is what really matters.

    Though one could reasonably argue that (apart from Golden himself) the coaching staff did more to foster fan resentment through both their reasonable commentary of his readiness and performance, which was further reinforced by simply not putting him on the field as a starter and in a limited role.

    All in all, Tate is progressing along the rather ‘normal’ trajectory for a receiver anyway. He’s in his third year, and anyone watching can see that he has ‘matured’, ‘stepped up’ and is ready to have his ‘break out’ season. Which is now reasonable to expect.

    Meaning knows the playbook, his role, coaches’ expectations, is integrated with the team, and now has a better sense of the nuances of what to and when. All things that one does not expect of a rookie receiver.

    And all of which will put him on the field more often and allow him to let his natural abilities to be maximized when the ball gets in his hands.

    I don’t think the doughnut shop caper or ‘immaturity’ just out of college means much. Since those things aren’t the kinds of things that are either permanent or fatal. It’s what happens after the issues and problems are identified and understood by Golden that matters. And he seems to have gotten it.

    He got caught doing something that was kinda funny and wasn’t about criminal malice toward another party. And he got called out for having a lazy and entitled mentality that got him benched and didn’t get to see the field much, as well as widespread fan and media disdain and disapproval. All of which in the end seemed to rather help with pointing him in the right direction.

  61. SeventiesHawksFan says:

    As for BE and TO, all indications are that they have ‘gotten it’ too. Along the same lines that Mike Williams did for at least one season.

    Which may be all than one should expect from either, though it’s very, very reasonable to think that Edwards could have multiple productive years still in front of him, assuming his apparent newfound focus stays with him over an extended duration. Which could be a rather fabulous thing for our team.

    PC seems to be able to pull off these reclamation and transformative ‘projects’ as well as any coach in the league though. I can’t think of too many other coaches who have had this kind of success.

    And I am not referring to just behavioral reclamations. He’s willing to experiment and take chances with devastating injuries (Washington, Thurmond, even Butler), undrafted rookies and out of the league cast offs (Baldwin, Bates, Browner), late rounders who quickly become starters (no list of plnames necessary for those paying attention), and coaches with a less than personal history (Cable).

    The ability to mine and find talent from what the rest of the league considers the broken and unwanted is rather astonishing.

    And it seems to suit his apparent philosophy and style, which is that the past is now in the rearview mirror and what to him matters is what you can accomplish moving forward.

    I think he meant it when he said in the first press conference commentary after TO arrived that he doesn’t care what happened in the past.

    Though he also was aware of it and did care enough that he plotted and went through with the TO ‘punking’ the team in a meeting stunt, which I think was actually a pretty brilliant move. Even if the whole thing was kinda contrived and awkward for those watching.

    But it allowed T.O. to at least indicate that he recognizes all of his past nonsense without having to state directly, ‘I’m different now’. A denial that would only get eye rolls and yeah sure’s from anyone listening.

    And it also allowed PC to let the team know in a way that is more telling than a prepared statement or speech: I’m onboard with this guy being here.

    The tacit but important sub-message to EVERYONE on the team is: You do your part and perform and make things better for us and help us win . . . and I’ll be onboard with you too.

  62. Dukeshire says:

    Tate is responsible for his own actions and his lack of preparation, not the staff. I would ask that some actually make that argument that the staff “fostered” fan resentment. I’m not sure where the narrative, that it takes 3 seasons for WRs to develop / “breakout” / etc… comes from, but I don’t agree with it and have seen little evidence of it. That is, Tate’s trajectory would seem to align with a middling yet capable receiver without ever realizing the production for which he would seem to be capable. Maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps he’ll become a 1000+ yard, guy for the duration of his career, from here forward. I suspect however, he’ll be a solid 700ish guy who may spike to 1000 in a career season.

  63. I think we’re going to look back at the ’10 draft at the end of this season and be thrilled with our 2nd round selection that year.

  64. bbnate420 says:

    TO didn’t wash out last year. He tore his ACL in the offseason.

  65. Edwards is a lock to make the team at this point if he keeps making plays in games and practice. If T.O. has a good showing, I’d say he has a good chance of making the team.

    They’re probably going to keep 6 WRs:

    Rice
    Baldwin
    Tate
    Edwards
    Owens
    Lockette

    I just can’t see Lockette passing through waivers.

  66. jzulaski says:

    I don’t know, Eric. I think that Pete is going to carry both Braylon Edwards AND T.O.

    Can you imagine if these guys can still make plays? We would have Zack Miller AND Kellen Winslow at Tight End with T.O., Edwards, Rice, and Baldwin at WR with Tate and Obomanu to spell some of them every once in a while.

    I like the potential there.

    I figure we’ll try to get Lockette past waivers onto the practice squad. I think he can squeek by.

    Can’t wait for the game tomorrow night. ;-)

    Z

  67. bbnate420 says:

    Lockette made it to the PS last year, and he hasn’t put up any tape so far this year. Rice, Tate, and Baldwin are all young. They’re going to add another young/younger receiver next offseason. Bank on it.

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