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Morning links: Jackson the starter? Same as it ever was

Post by Eric Williams on June 25, 2012 at 8:05 am with 43 Comments »
June 25, 2012 8:05 am
Seattle Seahawks quarterback Tarvaris Jackson warms up before the start of an NFL football game between the St. Louis Rams and the Seattle Seahawks Sunday, Nov. 20, 2011, in St. Louis. (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

Good morning. I want to say thanks again to Dave Boling for expertly filling in for me last week.

A report surfaced last week nationally after ESPN’s John Clayton reported that Tarvaris Jackson will get the first-team reps to begin Seattle’s training camp.

This news apparently came as a surprise to folks who follow the league nationally, but it’s something we reported here at the end of minicamp two weeks ago.

Basically, nothing has been decided yet. No one is really ahead in the three-way battle between Jackson, Matt Flynn and Russell Wilson, and Jackson will continue to get the first reps because he’s the incumbent starter.

While nothing has changed, I do get a sense in talking with Pete Carroll that a decision will be made sooner rather than later once training camp begins at the end of July. I would be surprised if the competition extended beyond the second preseason game at Denver on Aug. 18, and perhaps the team will make a decision after the opening exhibition game at home on Aug. 11 against Tennessee.

Here’s what Carroll had to say about the matter two weeks ago:

“It’s going to take us until we start playing (exhibition) games to where we’ll see something happen, I think. At this point they’re doing everything they can do with the opportunities and they look good, so I can’t tell you that there’s anything that’s happened other than we’ll stay with the same format going into (training) camp. I don’t think that will change. T-Jack (Tarvaris Jackson) will go first and away we go. But other than that, let the games begin. We’ll be really excited to see what happens.”

Check out the latest Real Robinson Report by Seattle fullback Michael Robinson in the video clip below. It includes interviews from Seattle players during the final week of minicamp, including rookie Bruce Irvin slipping up and referring to his new team as the Redskins.

According to ProFootballTalk.com, the Seahawks have $7.47 million in cap space. Obviously, the negotiation of Chris Clemons’ contract could affect that number. But Seattle also has to make decisions on Mike Williams and Tarvaris Jackson in making final roster cuts.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com checks in with Sidney Rice, who says he could have played through the shoulder injury last year, but two concussions in three weeks cut short his season.

ESPN’s John Clayton talks with Seattle rookie linebacker Bobby Wagner in this audio link.

KJR-AM’s Dave “Softy” Mahler talks with Seattle rookie safety Winston Guy in this audio link.

Doug Farrar of Yahoo Sports lists the top 10 breakout performances by undrafted rookie free agents over the years. Warren Moon and Brandon Browner make the list.

Matt Bowen of the National Football Post diagrams how to get pressure through the A gap in a 3-man front using the zone blitz.

Mike Freeman of CBS Sports puts Mike Vick atop his list of the top 10 NFL biggest jerks. Matt Hasselbeck makes Freeman’s list of the top 10 good guys in the league.

The NFL Network will kickoff a morning show called “NFL AM”, which will begin July 30th.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 43
  1. Dukeshire says:

    Welcome back, Eric. I honestly can’t imagine a scenario where either Jackson or Flynn would have been able to show enough, in *non contact* OTAs to clearly differentiate themselves. As soon as the pads are on, we’ll see the picture come into focus.

  2. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Yes, welcome back Eric!

    I am looking forward to your training camp reports.

    BTW- Who do you think of all the undrafted free agent rookies has the best chance to make the team?

  3. Soggybuc says:

    Anyone seen a date for Camp to start? I would think the Hawks would be trying for an early date.

  4. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I mean undrafted signed rookies.

  5. Antonio Cromartie has 12 kids! Shawn Kemp…move on over. There’s a new king of kids at the top of that list. That’s hilarious.

    And the Eagles with a bazillion dollars in cap space AND all that talent. That’s kind of scary. I wonder who else is still out there that they could add to an already talent laden team.

    Regarding the 3 headed monster QB debate, I with you Duke. There is no way any significant decision was going to happen in OTA’s. IF PC had made a move, there would be more scrutiny at this juncture than he’d prefer to have. I think the order is right for now. Tjack needs to prove himself and Flynn has to ‘earn’ the job. It puts a fire under both. I’m pretty intrigued by Wilson, but don’t really expect him to make a huge impression this early on. I think it comes down to Tjack or Flynn…may the best man win.

    GO HAWKS!

  6. chuck_easton says:

    The national media picking up on Jackson being the ‘starter’ on day one of camp is no news for those that actually pay attention to the team.

    The national media just assumed that Flynn was the starter.

    So, they hear that Jackson is the starter going into camp and it’s suddenly big news. We will see numerous reports over the next few weeks about how Seattle made a big mistake in giving Flynn such a large contract and how we will be terrible because we still have Jackson as our starter.

    Hey, those big time East Coast writers have to have some drama to justify their high salaries.

  7. Soggybuc says:

    In a way splitting the reps early as they are might be helpful as well in helping whoever is 2 or 3 get more work in.
    very much like how Cable moves guys around on the line and gets them time at other positions so no matter what happens he has options with guys to plug and play.
    To me one getting all the reps only becomes super important when you are in that one week window to get ready for Sunday. so right now every chance RW gets to run the 1′s can only help him if his number gets called in week 10.
    What if TJ Yates had gotten reps with Houstons 1′s during camp instead of the middle of a game?

  8. GeorgiaHawk: Of the undrafted rookie free agents, I would says OG Rishaw Johnson has the best shot at making the final roster. WR Jermaine Kearse also was playing well before he suffered a foot injury, and if he can get healthy has a shot of making the practice squad. Others who have made an impact include S DeShawn Shead, WR Phil Bates and DE Cordarro Law.

    SoggyBuc: No official date yet on the beginning of training camp, but I think it will begin around July 28.

  9. While it did not provide any new information, the John Clayton report did confirm some of what I was speculating about a few weeks ago. Carroll has never sounded “jacked up” about Flynn. He doesn’t even seem the least bit excited. With Jackson, he calls him the starter and says its his job to lose but at the same time he’s willing to give Jackson’s job to another QB. With Wilson, he has an absolute man crush but never really discusses how close Wilson is to the starting job. He wants Wilson to take this job and run with it for the next 10 years. Wilson is his guy.

    Therefore, I must revise my probabilities of starting Week 1 to:
    Jackson 50%
    Wilson 30%
    Flynn 20%

    If anything changes, I anticipate Jackson and Wilson narrowing the gap.

  10. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    while flynn is not great he is much more effective in the short to mid range game then jackson. i would put flynn at 50% wilson 30 jackson 20. my reasoning based on the fact that jackson is not very good at getting the ball out quick where as flynn can. in the end by next year i would expect wilson to be starting.

  11. bbnate420 says:

    Well, if Cromartie ends up broke, I guess we’ll know why. ;-)

  12. footballscaa says:

    Let Breno Giacomini or Lazarius Levingston start at QB. That way it’ll seem fun and competitive. ~

  13. bbnate420 says:

    It’s weird how no reporter has ever been a jerk.

    And I have NO love for “Rapelisburger” or the Stealers but, 2 ALLEGATIONS a jerk does not make IMO.

  14. Cordarro Law courstesy of Seahawks.com

    http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/Laying-down-the-Law/066960c8-7489-4454-bb86-c24d840aa7eb

    Sounds interesting and way below the radar. Here’s more…

    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70592&draftyear=2012&genpos=DE

    Fits the LEO position. Good to hear. We need some depth at that position. Damn, I love Schneider and the rest of our scout team!

  15. Hawksince77 says:

    pab,

    I think that’s exactly right. PC has never been jacked about Flynn. He has gone out of his way to dispense any notion that Flynn has a job (“he’s not carrying the money around in his pocket during practice”).

    PC wants to see if RW can succeed in a real NFL game. If he can (and PC probably believes he will) than PC can comfortably start him this year.

    If that happens, then suddenly TJack looks much better as a back-up than Flynn. He knows the offense, fits the QB prototype PC likes, and won’t require as many reps during the season to remain ready.

    They like Portis as the developmental guy. Cheap, young, athletic, lots of upside, and based on PC’s comments, a player who has steadily improved.

    So that’s what we could possibly see this year: RW starting, TJack the backup, Portis number 3.

  16. Hawksince77 says:

    If Flynn doesn’t make the team, does that make his aquisition a pure waste?

    I don’t think so. At the time, he was the best FA available. Without having signed him, Seattle enters the draft desperate for a QB. Without signing Flynn, they probably don’t get Wagner.

    The signing made sense at the time. But as we have seen countless times, what matters for PC is what happens on the field. If Flynn can’t beat out TJack (or a rookie, for that matter), nobody here should be sorry to see him go.

  17. I see no scenario where the Seahawks release Flynn this year.

  18. seahawk44 says:

    People …..when you see M2 play in a real game, then you will realize he is a winner. And PC hasn’t given much of a clue as to who is leading because they all look good in a practice situation. It is ridiculous to think Flynn won’t be on this roster, & I put his chance of starting at 85%.

  19. Dukeshire says:

    Adjusting those “probabilities” prior to camp, is just like draft “experts” adjusting mock drafts before the Sr Bowl. Whimsical.

  20. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Agree seahawk44. Except I put Flynn at 55%, Wilson at 40%, and Jackson at 5%.
    The only way I see Jackson as the starter is if Flynn and Wilson really stink up the preseason or get injured.

    And thanks Eric for the undrafted rookie thoughts. I am rooting for Bates to make the team.

  21. GeorgiaHawk says:

    BTW- It wouldn’t bother me at all if it takes the whole preseason to figure the qb situation out. And if it’s not figured out by then it will not bother me to take this thing into the regular season if need to be.
    But once this is resolved I hope the starting qb will be starting for a long time!
    Unless of course it’s Jackson, then I will be looking ahead into next years draft for our future starting qb. Lol.

  22. An early timetable on naming a starter benefits Jackson. Flynn and Wilson want to drag this out as long as they can.

  23. I simply dont see that Carrol not spazzing out in ectstasty over Flynn means he doesnt want Flynn to win the job, or that Flynn wont make the team. I cant believe I even have to say this: y’all are freaking out, trying to read the tea leaves and poring and worrying over every word that comes out of Coach’s mouth–BEFORE training camp has even started! OMFG thats some funny S#@T!!

    Seriously, when was the last time Carrol said what really really thought regarding the qb situation? I mean, completely openened up about all facets of it? Um, NEVER! Thats right, he isnt going to tip his hand.

    For one thing, that would be stupid. Carrol is not stupid. For another, there are other ways to read his behavior and words. He talked Curry up too, then cut his butt. He talked Hass up, then gave him the bums rush with that insulting one-year deal. He talked Tatupu up, then offered him an ultimatum he knew Tats couldnt handle. See a pattern here, people? Yeah, Perhaps Carrol is talking T-Jack up because he’d love to get a bag of chips in trade, or at least jedi-mind trick Jackson into finally making the leap to real NFL starter. Perhaps he isnt sure Flynn will be great from day one, and is waiting…

    Of course it would be awesome if Wilson was the QBOTF, a sure-fire Pro Bowler for the next 10 years. That would, in fact, be the best-case scenario, wouldnt it? Flynn stepping up and making Jackson look foolish by putting up 27 points in his first game, and executing a two-minute drill at halftime that resulted in a TD, then winning the game on a TD with 10 seconds left would be the next best thing. After that, the likely pipe dream of Jackson suddenly “getting it” and morphing from a good stop-gap to a real player would be the next best thing…

    I dont think Carrol has a clear favorite, but perhaps he really does want Russell Wilson to be the guy right away. Nothing wrong with that. But he isnt going to give that away in the press, so y’all a grasping at straws. Carrol will let them compete, and preseason WILL sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

    And then we will get on with real football. Thank the football Gods. Amen.

  24. “Seriously, when was the last time Carrol said what really really thought regarding the qb situation? I mean, completely openened up about all facets of it? Um, NEVER! Thats right, he isnt going to tip his hand.”

    I seem to remember Carroll proclaiming Jackson the undisputed starter last year – before Camp opened. No one believed him on this board and when it was apparent Carroll wasn’t backing down, this board went downright angry wondering why the beloved Whitehurst wasn’t given a chance.

    And then when Whitehurst pulled off the game winning drive against the Giants, Carroll offered little praise.

    And then when Flynn was signed, Carroll said he would have to compete for the job with Jackson. Not many on this board believed him, including Eric.

    And then Carroll/Schneider practically telegraphed their love for Russell Wilson before the draft. It wasn’t a huge surprise the night Wilson was drafted.

    So to answer your question, the last time Carroll was honest about the QB situation was everytime during the past year.

  25. Dukeshire says:

    I can’t believe any of the three wouldn’t want the starter to be named sooner than later, in camp. I think, the longer it goes, the better it would look for Jackson.

  26. I would figure the sooner he names the QB, the better it is for the current leader (who happens to be the incumbent).

  27. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I know some of you are tired of BobbyKs persistant rants on how Jackson is a terrible starting qb, and I don’t like constant silly name calling either, however BobbyK is dead on with his analysis of Jackson! He just goes over the top sometimes, imo.

    I remember last year when the F.O. decided to let Hasselbeck walk. I was just outraged to see him go and have Jackson of all qbs replace him.
    I was persistent with my dislike of that move to the point of others on this blog getting tired of my griping.
    So I finally said that I would not talk about Hasselbeck for a long time.
    So what happens then? About 6 of the next 10 threads are about Hasselbeck. What else was I to talk about?

    Now we have a few weeks probably 60% of the threads talking about our qb situation.

    So what the hell now is BobbyK going to do with that? Cut the guy some slack! He doesn’t hate Jackson, he just wants what is best for this team like all of us would want.

    Here’s a good example-

    Morning links: Jackson the starter? Same as it ever was.

    So don’t blame BobbyK if he responds honestly to these persistent threads about our qb situation.

    Again I don’t like constant name calling on players, however I believe that BobbyK is right about Jackson, and many fans that just want to wallow at the 500 mark for the next few years for the sake of keeping Jackson as our #1 qb will be in for a surprise.

  28. Hawksince77 says:

    pab, I think you are right again. PC has been clear about the position since he joined the team. Sure, Hass was his guy year one – who else did he have? Sure, he wanted Hass back, but not at any price. Yes, he means for this to be a genuine competition, and I truly believe that he will start the player at the position he thinks gives the Seahawks the best chance to win. Regardless of pedigree, draft position, experience or signing bonus.

    As far as some of us with an opinion about who that might be, it has more to do with what we know about the three players and PC than anything else. Some of us think that TJack is a sub-mediocre NFL QB. Others of us think that Flynn is mildly mediocre with the upside of Hasselbeck (certainly nothing to sneeze at). We also know what PC likes in his QBs – attributes missing from Matt Flynn’s arsonal.

    We also know what PC thinks about RW, a player who just happens to fit to a tee what PC wants at the position. A player far more athletic and accomplished (at this stage of his career) than either of his compatriots.

    So the question is: when will RW be ready for the big stage? Some of us believe sooner rather than later, based on his character and his history.

    So it’s not just what has taken place (and not taken place) in camp. There is more to the thoughts related to who might land where within the next few months.

  29. GeorgiaHawk says:

    This says about all as to why Hasselbeck would have been better than the T- Jack project last year.
    Do we really need to go through another season to learn this lesson again?

    http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/37996/jaws-on-hasselbeck-as-the-no-18-qb

  30. Unless Flynn, or Wilson look amazing in the preseason the opening day starter will be TJ. I get the feeling PC wants one of his guys at QB, and Flynn(JS) at this point is less likely to get a non injury related start than RW. TJ did show improvement last year, especially later in the season. Sometimes it takes a while before some QB’s can pull it together(Hasslebeck) and even then it wasn’t rare for him to look good one play, but awful the next while keeping a seasonal QB rating aroung 80-90. It’s Flynn or RW job to win, but…TJ gets the nod over Miami boy, and RW.

  31. I still believe that if Jackson is the starter for his season then PC is not long for this job.

    Tjack is NOT the QBOTF – He will forever be an AVERAGE QB at best. If MF or RW can not beat him out by the end of Training camp (preferably) or early in this season then we are in trouble for a long time because PC/JS don’t have a good idea how to evaluate a good QB for the NFL, and will have struck out 4 times early in rebuilding process. Whitehurst, Tjack, Flynn, Wilson.

    Now IF Flynn/Wilson pan out then all of these scenarios are mute points

    With our QB play of the last 2 years we will be 7-9 to 9-7 forever and every so ofter get a 10-6 record. that is not good enough for me. I want 8-8. . . 9-7 on the bad years – see NE, Pitt, Balt, Indy for the last number of years. But I do want to take Balt off the list since they have not really been in the hunt for the SB in most years since they don’t have the offense to get past the other teams.

    I do find it funny that the QB’s they have wanted for the NFL are NOT the types of QB’s that he went after/had at USC.

  32. GeorgiaHawk, thanks for posting that. Looks like some of those Titan fans are liking Matt H and recognizing that he’s a pretty darn good QB – I’m still pissed that he isn’t a Seahawk anymore…but I won’t go there.

  33. QB play will never probably be the strength our the Hawks again, and it doesn’t have to be. Pitt, NE(First Brady SB), Balt, and NYG/NYJ are all led by the defense/RB with a mediocre QB, but have stellar defenses. The only team now where QB is the strength of the team are GB, NO, NE, SD, and everyone else is SOL. This year was a deep QB class in the draft, but not free agency, and we got our QB of the future. It’s slightly unreasonable for a rookie RW to beat out TJ to start the season, and Flynn hasn’t shown up yet, but fans are ready to anoint him with oil.

    In order of importance to our team I think QB falls behind our young secondary staying healthy, Lynch/Turbin, O-Line(Lots of depth), Pass Rush getting better, Our LB’s developing, improved special teams play on all sides(Smith never beat us).

  34. bbnate420 says:

    TJ had a better rating in 2011 than Hasselbeck had his last three years here. Fact! Hasselbeck probably wouldn’t have survived the first half of 2011 behind our o-line. Hasselbeck played on a good team with one of the best o-lines last year and he produced. Hasselbeck still only had a QB rating 3 points better than TJ last year, 82.4 to 79.2. Fact! Regardless, Hasselbeck is gone and he ain’t comin back. It is pointless to continually rehash this old argument.

    How about we let PC name a starter and, then we can whine about his decision. I think it’s very short sighted to say that if RW isn’t starting early in the year that PC/JS cannot evaluate QBs. Most rookies, especially those picked in the third round, don’t come in and light the league on fire from day one. PC/JS made a mistake with CBJ. You cannot say the same with TJ IMO. They didn’t sign him to a deal with the expectation that he would be the QBOF. He was their best option last year. Some people act like you can just go out and grab a Franchise QB. If it was that true then every team would have one. You have to play the hand you’re dealt. They could not trade up to #1 or 2 to get a QB this year. They tried to go after Manning. He didn’t want to come here.

  35. Georgia – Like BobbyK, we all know your feelings toward Tjack and like his rants, they’re boring, repetitive and quite frankly pointless. Asking me/us to lay off of BobbyK is hilarious. Maybe I’m in the minority, but I guess I’d prefer to see something different than the same old schtick to what I consider to be a pretty good teammate and stand up guy who played through a tough injury. Please don’t mistake this as me saying that he lit the world on fire…he didn’t. He was the best we had last year and I think it’s safe to say, we’ve upgraded the overall postion with the additions of Flynn and Wilson.

    Aaron Curry on the other hand IMO was absolutely worthy of harsh criticism. I thought it was the worst pick of the Ruskell regime, period. Although those rants got old as well, he did get shipped out and a team (granted the Raiders) actually gave 2 picks for him which is more than the sack of potatoes I thought he was worth.

    Hasselbeck for the record chose to walk away. HE did so after being offered a 1 year deal which he rejected. HE chose to go to Tenn b/c of the longer term contract. I get it. It’s just business. I loved Matt and also would have preferred to have him finish here, but the truth was that he was getting up there in years and had become quite fragile. Additionally, he would take more risks which at times yielded great results and at others, gave the opposition tremendous field position.

    Tjack went 7-7 with a makeshift line and his top 2 WRs down. Not stellar, not bad. He did get sacked a lot, but played more ball control which by my understanding is what PC prefers. Again, he didn’t light the world on fire, but Whitehurst wasn’t the answer.

    IF Flynn can come in and win the job, I’m good with it and will be rooting my ass off for the Hawks. IF RW does it, I’d be stunned and yet pleasantly surprised and would root equally for him as well. IF Tjack wins same thing and will ultimately trust PC’s judgement as him being the guy that gives us the best chance to win. And again, I’ll be rooting my butt off for him and the rest of the team. After all, they are my (our) team.

    Seeing people lay odds as to who wins the QB job is also pretty pointless. Who cares? And if you’re right, what would you like? An atta boy? Puh-leaze. It’s kind of entertaining to see just how many bloggers are always looking to be right and the vigorous debates that take place when they’re challenged and someone doesn’t agree with them (like this post ;-) ).

    Ridiculing the opposing teams can be funny, but can sometimes fall on deaf ears if the team you’re mocking happens to be pretty good and proves it on the field.

    I personally am interested in learning about the team’s development, getting in depth about the players, coaching and staff, broadening the scope of the schemes we implement, what players are moving up/down the depth chart, opposing teams (especially within the division) analysis, etc. Tjoke cracks and odds as to who win the QB position are a drag. Why not set the odds for all positions and really bore us to tears? How about setting the odds for how long PC and JS will be together?

    C’mon man.

    It’s still the best blog IMO on the Hawks, but the relentless rants over the years regarding Tjack, Hutch, Curry (to the degree it was)and so many others just lacks a lot of substance.

    Do some homework. Provide some good links. Beating a dead horse is easy and lazy.

    I welcome your responses.

    GO HAWKS!

  36. bird_spit says:

    What’s more annoying about BK rants about tjack, are the rants about the bk rants. When I read any of these rants about other posters it really ticks me off.. later boys.

  37. GeorgiaHawk says:

    joreb- I agree with you about learning more of the teams development and so on, and you can see that by what I posted in the begining of this thread about undrafted rookie signings. When I first got on this thread my first reaction was ” Oh no, not another qb thread!” But after a two beers I jumped in to what most others were talking about. My mistake for staying on topic. Lol.

    Believe me, I would rather talk about other things right now but this thread like so many others, and I am sure so many more down the road is about the qbs again.
    I don’t know what to do about that other than to just stay off topic when they come up. Any suggestions?

    I have tried to not stay on just one topic and grind it into the ground as best that I can, but I’m sure somewhere down the road I will be back with a comment or two about our qb situation.

    Slow times right now joreb, so if you are bored of things on this blog you can always do something about it and start posting the things you want to talk about, or post some links, or stats. I would be more then happy to talk about anything else not related to the qb situation.

    Just don’t blame me if I’m off the the main topic of the threads moving forward. Lol.

  38. seahawk44 says:

    Just change the topic.

    I was just in Vegas, and these are one casinos current odds to win the NFC:

    Green Bay 10 to 3
    San Francisco 11 to 2
    Arizona 25 to 1
    Seattle 30 to 1
    St. Louis 40 to 1

  39. I’d take those for the Seahawks.

  40. Dukeshire says:

    10 to 3? 11 to 2? Those sound like Leroy’s lines, to me.

  41. mindnbrad says:

    We’re back to Aaron Curry talk? What, no Ruskell complaints? :)

    Another hilarious Rob Report. Thought Baldwin was awesome. Anyone else notice that Winston Guy’s white sheet in his locker actually said, “Dexter Davis” at the top? Hmmmm…..

  42. I used to live in Vegas and those odds are great! They never seem to give the Hawks any love, but that’s ok…they have yet to win a SB.

    I’ll let up on BK as he has toned it down quite a bit. I actually very much appreciate his and everyone’s input when it’s not so repetitive.

    And yes, it is a slow time of the year…for now.

    GO HAWKS!

  43. On the QB’s there’s only one right answer: Let them play, let the preseason sort this out.

    We don’t need to handicap the race because we all have our bias. Hopefully, PC makes this call without bias (or perhaps with bias toward his end goal).

    We all know the attributes each player brings to the table and we know there are serious question marks about each player. It makes no sense to compare one to the other because they don’t really do the same thing for the team. I think the reason games will decide it is because it will take games to see which attribute best fits the surrounding talent. I am really looking forward to the preseason this year because we will have a REALLY good reason to watch.

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