Seahawks Insider

Final: Seahawks 30, St. Louis 13

Post by Doug Pacey / The News Tribune on Dec. 12, 2011 at 8:57 pm with 46 Comments »
December 12, 2011 8:59 pm

Well, that was an offensive slugfest. The Seahawks beat St. Louis 30-13 Monday night in an ugly game, but it’s a win and Seattle will take it.

Special teams were big for Seattle — the Seahawks returned a block punt for a TD, had a couple long kick returns and downed a punt at the 6-yard line — and the offense rode Marshawn Lynch in the second half. He topped 100 yards for the fifth time in the past six games.

With the win, Seattle stays in playoff contention. The Seahawks have a tough road ahead — they essentially have to win out and hope a few other teams lose — but it’s possible. After what’s happened so far this season, why not, right?

You can view game stats here.

Here are some questions to ponder. Please leave us your comments below.

1. Special teams played a big role, from the reverse on the opening kickoff, the block punt returned for a TD and Leon Washington’s long kickoff return in the third quarter, how pleased were you with Seattle’s special teams? Anything that should be cleaned up?

2. Since becoming a full-time starter in Week 4, linebacker K.J. Wright had one of his better games, recording a sack for the second straight game and was in one some key plays. Has he solidified himself at outside linebacker for next season?

3. Doug Baldwin continues to build a rapport with Tarvaris Jackson. With 718 receiving yards and four games left to play, the undrafted rookie has an outside chance at becoming a 1,000-yard receiver. Could he do anything more to impress you?

4. Marshawn Lynch topped 100 rushing yards for the fifth time in the past six games. His contract is up after this season. What’s your approach to resigning him?

5. Admit it, when the Rams pulled within 10 points, 23-13 in the fourth quarter, did you squirm? Even a little?

6. What else stood out to you/bothered you about this game?

Leave a comment Comments → 46
  1. It’s all impressive.

  2. GeorgiaHawk says:

    If we had just an average qb we would have won by 40.

  3. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Doug Baldwin, and Marshawn Lynch are no doubt MVPs for the Seahawks this year! Imo.

  4. 1. They did some good and bad things. Loved the Baldwin block. It’s better than earlier in the year when it was usually a bad thing from this unit. I was glad to see Hauschka bounce back and make his next FG after that relatively easy miss.

    2. I think Wright was drafted to be the starter at SAM next season. However, he’s elevating his game to another level. I like it.

    3. I don’t know how anyone could not like Doug Baldwin. Doesn’t he know that well over 90% of rookie WRs aren’t supposed to be overly good or productive. He’s unique (in a great way).

    4. He needs to be resigned but I think we’re all snakebitten by $haun getting paid, too. Sure, the Beast is only 25 and Shaun was 29, but still I think most people in the NFL are worried about paying big bucks for a RB on a long-term contract. Personally, I have no problem having him play ’12 under the franchise tag (though that certainly is NOT ideal). It keeps him following the carrot, as Holmgren would say. This regime wants to be young and they traded for him to be part of the long-term solution so it does make the most sense to get him locked up for 4-5 years if both sides can agree (which is best for everyone involved). Stay tuned.

    5. The Rams are so terrible that I was not worried one bit. Why is their franchise QB allowed to play a meaningless game when he was hobbling around? It hurt to watch him try to move around. Sure, he sucked tonight, but why play a guy in a meaningless game for the team when he’s clearly not even at 50-60%. There’s a reason the Rams are worthless and it’s not just all injuries either.

    6. I would challenge anyone here to find someone who has believed in Golden Tate around here from the moment he was drafted than me. I’ve believed in that guy from day one and was utterly thrilled when we stole him late in that second round. However, what the hell is he doing with all these celebrations like he just won a Super Bowl on routine or above average plays? He seriously needs to eat some Barry Sander pie. Go ahead and be excited, but keep the celebration within reason given the game situation. My gosh.

    7. Other: I know this was just the Rams and they suck, but I’m really buying into this team being ready to win it all in ’12 with a real QB. I know we need a situational pass rusher added and some interior depth for the defensive line, but we’re really starting to look like we have a lot of pieces to be great SOON. This guy thinks exactly like me:
    http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3708/tarvaris-jackson

  5. “Barry Sanders”

  6. 1. ST & Lynch won the game

    2. One would certainly think so.

    3. He’s obviously the team’s best receiver this year. QUESTION: as an undrafted FA, how long is he under the Seahawks’ control? If he’s am FA, they need to extend him NOW.

    4. Do so but be careful. I’ll admit I was wrong about Lynch, but I see 2 concerns:

    A. Many experts say he has as much NFL mileage as an average 28 yo. Will he wear out quickly?

    B. Why did he suck so badly last year? Which is the real Lynch, 2010 & the first 1/4 of 2010, or the 2nd & 3rd quarters of 1011?

    5. Only a little. As bad as we are, The Lambs are much worse.

    6. TJ is not the answer. Bill Levy is apparently on a gambler’s payroll; more 1 sided anti-Seattle calls. Why has Zach Miller disappeared? With a decent QB, we could be quite good in 2012 when the O line, Rice & CB’s come back from injury. One of the reasons we sucked so bad early on is due to the lockout; we added more pieces (including Bevell than most).
    I still put that on PC, he knew there was a lock out. I more & more a free with those calling for Carp to be moved to LG & get a real RT. If we can score a premium QB & RT in the 2012 draft or FA & if we can institute some discipline on the penalties we could be contending for real by 2013.

  7. God I can’t type!!!! Can we have a post editing option? Please??!

  8. moo – he’s under team control for four years.

  9. The QB and TE were the only players Seattle had on offense that were better than the Rams equivalents.

    I hope the Rams keep Sam Bradford as their QB for the next 10 years. He is a stiff.

  10. “moo – he’s under team control for four years.”

    Thanks Bobby, that’s great news.

  11. pabuwal, did we watch the same game??

    I don’t know if Bradford is ever going to live up to being a #1 pick, but I’d take a HEALTHY Bradford over TJ any day!

  12. Think about it this way, what if TJ might be turning out to be a Rapistburger clone? He hangs in there waiting for the WRs to get open going into his own ‘beast mode’ shaking off defenders.. You have to admire his perseverance.. (yes i had to look up how to spell that)

    Is this his 1st full yr as a starter? How did Ben fare in his 1st year?
    Ok before all of you starting calling me dumb (bobbyk)

    Just something to think about. How did anybody do in their 1st full yr as a starting QB with the full support of his team??
    (i dont see any more CW supporters posting)

    I’m not sold that TJ is the future but could he be the future?

  13. For the record, I called Bradford a stiff during the offseason when big things were expected of him and said the best he would be is a low end game manager.

  14. “If we had just an average qb we would have won by 40.”

    Not sure what TJ did to deserve that comment.

    I think he’s getting better as he’s getting healthier, and getting more gametime. Made at least 2 very nice throws that I can recall to Baldwin. Managed the game very well. The whole team was a little sloppy in failing to convert from in close a couple times, but his passer rating tonight was 96.4, seems like that’s above-average.

  15. What a find Baldwin was as a free agent. When they showed that montage of him returning a kickoff, catching/downing our own punt at the 5, blocking a punt, and then making a key catch – what an unbelievable contributor.

    Other notes – loved hearing Gruden praise the team, praise what Carroll has done. It deserves recognition. Carroll has completely turned over an aging, undertalented roster in under 2 years, and put together a young, super-physical, athletic squad, with a ton of size and speed. I think Browner and Sherman are getting better and better too (bs call on Browner on that last PI), and with the fastest safety in the league backing them up, they can afford to be physical.

    Hawks are heading in the right direction there’s not a doubt in my mind. Imagine the misery of being a Rams fan these days.

  16. pabs – Jackson has bad games and you blame it on missing practice. Or it is someone elses fault.

    Bradford misses more practice/games and you say he sucks when he plays like crap. Did you watch him barely get some handoffs made b/c he was so hobbled or not being able to push off because of his injury?

    It’s like you make up excuses for Jackson to not be good and you fail to acknowledge when someone else is clearly hurt and not anywhere close to healthy and pretend injury doesn’t exist (or count). Your double standard is really weird.

  17. freedom_X says:

    Bradford is on the 2nd worst team in the NFL, and team that might have less offensively than any other. No QB is going to perform well in that situation. The Rams line looks like the early season Seattle line in pass protection.

    Lynch is playing better now because the line is far better. On Lynch’s TD run, he actually had a seam he could hit at full speed, no cut needed. If Lynch had this blocking last year, he’d have the same results. His own efforts are still making the O-line look better than it is, but the line has definitely gotten far better run blocking than last year, and the 1st third of this year.

    St. Louis may have more talent on the O-line, but it’s not playing as a unit nearly as well. 5 mediocre talents playing as a unit and not making mistakes will give better results that 5 studs who do their own thing and make 3-4 mistakes each per game (not penalties, just making mistakes like missing an assignment or line call or losing concentration.) That’s the main difference between Seattle and St. Louis on offense.

  18. “For the record, I called Bradford a stiff during the offseason when big things were expected of him and said the best he would be is a low end game manager.”

    It’s true, you did. You don’t give any credence though to the idea that he’s banged up and playing being a terrible line w/out too much talent to help him? I give that sentiment some credit. He looked bad tonight for sure, but he’s gimpy, and hasn’t played/practiced in awhile.

    Rams offense looked like what we looked like against good teams at the nadir of the past couple years.

  19. It is absolutely amazing how quickly they turned an aging, talentless roster into one of the more talented Seahawks squads in recent memory.

    I became a believer after that Falcons game and loaded my Fantasy team up with Seahawks. I have won 5 of the past 6 to sneak into the playoffs.

  20. One thing I said for Jackson coming into the year was that he’s a good dude. From his time in MN I never once heard a bad word about him and he’s even exceeded expectations in Seattle with respect to being a great guy, great teammate, hard worker, leader, etc.

    He’s a hard guy not to like on a personal level (not that any of us know him, but it seems legit that he’s such a good guy) but I do not believe he’s a good QB. That’s my frustration.

    It’s like people whine and complain about Ruskell only going after good people who were bad players and yet when we have our own great guy in Jackson, all people want to do is the Ruskell approach of hoping he can get the job done b/c he’s a good guy (yet they will still, deservedly, bash Ruskell).

  21. And one more thing – I was one of the few that groused a little bit when they got rid of Curry earlier this year. Shows what I know. KJ Wright is flat out better. Not better for the salary, better period. Impact game tonight, and he’s only getting better too.

  22. “pabuwal
    Dec. 12, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    It is absolutely amazing how quickly they turned an aging, talentless roster into one of the more talented Seahawks squads in recent memory.”

    I agree 100%. I can’t believe I wrote what I wrote a little while ago, but I now believe that a legit/decent QB can potentially take this team to the Super Bowl next year with a few minor off-season alterations.

  23. “He’s a hard guy not to like on a personal level (not that any of us know him, but it seems legit that he’s such a good guy) but I do not believe he’s a good QB. That’s my frustration.”

    He made some very decent throws tonight, you gotta admit. And he seems to be trending upward. I acknowledge that you have to take the competition into account, but he did well against the eagles too.

    He may never zing it in there like Rodgers, but hanging in and taking a hit to make a throw, commanding the respect of your team, managing a game, those are all important aspects too.

  24. Bobbyk – yes, Jackson has had some bad games but he hasn’t looked dreadful the entire year like Bradford has. The Seahawks OL is decimated, losing stud Okung and their best WR is gone for the year. They have very good talent when healthy which they clearly are not right now.

    Both Bradford and Jackson have a very good RB, one good WR with a bunch of journeymen and an OL in shambles. The talent level on both offenses wasn’t all that much different last night. I do think the Seahawks offense is far better than the Rams when both teams are fully healthy.

  25. The reason I said 2 years for serious contention is I ASSUME the QB is going to come in the draft. If they surprise us with a blockbuster trade, it could be 2012.

    The penalty issue has GOT to be addressed, though; no matter how good the talent is.

    I do agree, unlike the Rams we do have hope.

  26. FleaFlicker says:

    I’m more and more impressed with Tom Cable as the season goes on. Replacement at LT and first play of the game is Marshawn ramble for 13 yards left and 100+ for the game.

    As much as I want TJac to get better and settle into the offense, he’s not where he needs to be. Maybe if he was a rookie, you’d have some hope but at year five or six in the league he’s just a better version of Charlie.

    I heart Doug Baldwin.

  27. freedom_X says:

    If Seattle didn’t have an average QB, Seattle would have lost by at least 7.

    Jackson didn’t make mistakes. Bad QB’s make mistakes – fumbles, interceptions. He made safe throws, and didn’t put the team in a bad position. Not Pro Bowl stuff, but it’s what an average QB should do for a Pete Carroll team. Average there doesn’t mean throw for 400 yds and 4 TD’s one game then throw 4 picks and a fumble the next.

    If Lynch wants DeAngelo Williams money, I think Seattle should let him go. I don’t really believe there’s another team that will pay that kind of money. The RB position is really getting devalued, as low round picks produce over and over all around the league. Zach Miller money probably is more reasonable. It would be too much of a blow to Lynch, if I were him, to take less than that.

    It can work out as long as both sides don’t let their ego get in the way. If Lynch is looking for Williams or better money, Seattle can let him shop. If Lynch can’t get it, then hopefully he’d take a lesser offer from Seattle. But if egos get in the way, Lynch will feel disrespected and burn his bridges if Seattle doesn’t give him Williams money, and Seattle will try to move on too quickly and “prove” how wrong Lynch was for not accepting their original offer.

  28. Re the run game with the back up o line: don’t forget the announcers said that statistically the Lambs have the worst run d in the NFL.

  29. Carroll isn’t going to give up a lot of draft capital to nab one of the top 3 QBs this year. He isn’t going to overpay in free agency either. For the people who want Jackson replaced, your best hope is they strike gold in the mid rounds and that player starts in 2013.

    Jackson has a shot to go 9-5 as a starter this year which would be the second highest winning percentage of any Seahawks starting quarterback since 1990. Carroll won’t dismiss that easily.

  30. pabuwal, a #8 hater is a #7 supporter.
    go figure.

  31. What I saw:

    Rams were pathetic. Their fielding the worst offensive line I’ve seen in the NFL in years, and a QB who could just barely walk. This game should have been a blowout.

    And if Rice, Okung, and Moffit were healthy, I think it would have been a blowout. The reason it was close is because our backup O line and our backup WRs were weak. McQuistan is not a LT, and I’m so tired of watching Golden Tate screw up his routes that I’d be fine if they cut him tomorrow. I’m sick of watching Tate celebrate his one catch a game.

    On the bright side, Marshawn is a stud, Baldwin is money, our DBs are Badasses, Wright is showing instincts, and TJack is a winner who could be better if he had more talent around him.

  32. I’d call myself a Jackson supporter. I want to give him a chance and see if he keeps improving. I’m not against drafting a QB to compete with Jackson next year — I just don’t want the Seahawks to give up too much to do so. If PC and JS believe in RGIII and trade up to get him, I certainly won’t complain. But if they draft a stud like Jason Pierre-Paul, I’ll be more excited.

  33. Bottom line, its fun to watch our D continuing to make progress. On the Offense side, its impossible to see much progress when the staring lineup includes Giacomini, Jeanpierre, McQuistan, Williams, and Tate – all of whom should be sitting on the bench.

  34. freedom_X says:

    I believe Tate is coming along. Mike Williams is the guy who should be sitting on the bench, from a production standpoint.

    Last year, Seattle faced statistically horrible teams and flopped. If they now are able just to beat the teams “they should beat”, then that’s progress. I don’t think that much of teams who get a couple upsets then lay down to 3 or 4 teams supposedly worse than them. They still have some of that (Cleveland, Redskins.)

  35. Dukeshire says:

    If Seattle played a capable team last night, they would not have won. The Rams are terrible. Seattle played a very sloppy game, most of the way. The ‘Hawks did do some nice things, but let’s not forget how inept the Rams were in the Red Zone. They need to tighten up run d on first down, 2 fumbles from Jackson, 9 more penalties, and 2 half-back option passes typically don’t beat good teams in the NFL.

  36. Southendzone says:

    Have to know: Were the 2 PI calls at the end of the game in the end-zone as bad as they looked from my seat at CLINK? From my vantage point the 1st (long pass going to N end zone) looked like Sherman played the ball 100%, extending to deflect it with zero contact.

    The 2nd one (short, in S. End zone) looked like a terrible pass, neither player could reach the ball and there was significant separation between receiver and DB, don’t get that PI one bit.

    So for those who watched at home, how did they look?

  37. i was used to getting prime time games fun win tho
    to bad we dont have a real qb or we coudl be really good

  38. pabs – you said that the talent level on this team is better than you can remember in a long time and yet Jackson gets the credit for the record like he’s doing it himself (b/c our run game had been so dominant the last 5 years)? A game manager doesn’t have more picks than TDs and did people forget about the fumbles last night? A “game manager” doesn’t do that. Just b/c we didn’t lose the ball doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. This young team has the potential to be really good with a sub-standard QB but has a chance to be great with an actual decent QB. Just b/c people want to root for a Ruskell player (not good, but a good person), doesn’t mean we should settle at that position. And who are the big 3 QBs? Luck, Barkley, RGIII, Jones… which is left off the list?

  39. bird_spit says:

    Who ever picks the match ups on Monday Night Football needs to loose their job. Both teams effectively out of playoff contention. I guess the pick was which 2010 7-9 team wins the division, might have a shot in 2011? Any way, I would bet ESPN lost 98% of the viewers even before the game started. I’m happy for the 98%. The was probably one of the worst games of the week.

    Doug Baldwin and Marshawn were definitely worth watching. Our run stuffing D was fun to watch. But really, what I think we saw was practice between a 1st and 2nd team.

    That said, Tom Cable is the Man. Where would this team be without his guys preparation? Hawks need to lock him up.

    Pete Carroll has his team playing with huge chips on their shoulders. You can just feel with a few select areas next year, these Hawks could be a really good club. Assuming SF and Arizona maintain and improve, the question needs to be asked, if the strength of the NFC has moved West? ( Green Bay withstanding).

    As a fan of the Seahawks, it’s definitely fun to watch the progress. This game was meaningless Monday Night practice.

  40. Palerydr says:

    @southendzone the first PI was against Sherman I believe. He put his right hand on the rec shoulder and in slow mo you could tell he gave a slight tug on the pads. I believe that a Revis/Woodson would have gotten that call Sherman did not. PI #2 was against Browner I believe on that it was a similar play he put his right hand on top of the Rec shoulder more for balance it looked to me again Revis/Woodson get the benefit of the doubt on that call Browner now has a rep and he doesn’t.

  41. mojjonation says:

    While ST may have cost us a game or two (SF and CIN), they have made strides. Washignton is Washington. His vision on kickoffs is ridiculous. I think we had another illegal block or hold on ST (and crazy enough, it was on Baldwin). Our ST is above average and it has bailed us out in the past more than it has cost us.

    KJW is playing himself into a bigger role. He is pretty much everything Curry isn’t, except a payroll burden. I don’t recall him being lost in coverage, but sicne Seattle played so much press last night with 8 in the box, he didn’t have to.

    What can you say about DB that hasn’t already been said? The guy is smart. He did come from Stanford. If he could do anything, maybe he could tell Tate to hold his mouth and actions in check until he has a few 8 or ten catch games under his belt.

    Where is the proof that Beast Mode has 28 year old knees in a 25 year old body? He might just be tougher than most. He runs behind his pads and his yards after contact is just stupid. A 4 or 5 year deal with maybe some escalator/incentive clauses, and some type of verbage that Seattle can use if he pulls a $haun. If we let him go, someone will pick him up for what he wants/deserves. At only 25, there are plenty of teams that would take a chacne on him and pay him what he is looking for. If he gets the franchise tag put on him, I’m not sure how he wil take it. He has been a hard worker since he got here with no on or off the field trouble. If he sees it as a snub (which I doubt), he may just tank it and move on. He may turn out to be another Curt Warner or Marshall Faulk. Only time will tell.

    Straight up eye roll. The commentators were talking about how St. Louis hadn’t scored an offensive touchdown in three games. It takes St. Louis 72 tries with the aid of two penalties to finally get into the end zone from the one yard line. I think that Levy and his crew had something to do with it, but I won’t blame it all on them. Seattle had tightened up it’s D in the second half and held Jackson to 15 yards I think. Bradford was hobbled, we were daring him to throw it, I think we had it locked up. Bradford got half of his passing yards on two plays. St. Louis was never really a threat, I just think we didn’t take the game serious enough.

    Pen-null-tees. 9 more. All unsportsmanlike penalties are uncalled for and can and should be avoided. I’ve said this before, every umpire group in the league pays attention to our secondary because they have been told to. Browner and Sherman don’t do any more than Revis, Woodson, Bailey, or any other defensive backfield in the league. They just get called for it more because they are early on in their NFL careers. Hopefully next year, some of those calls will go away. Jaworski was even complaining that the refs don’t just let guys play. But when you have a league that has gone pass happy and doesn’t allow anyone or anything to touch a QB, something is going to give. Getting called for a false start at home. What gives? I know we have youth on our side and an eagerness to get going, but you can’t always go on sound or on one.

    Everything is improving. It has been against mediocre and lower competition, but it is still improvement. You play how you practice. If practice is loose, then you play loose. At times with the youth it can be problematic (penalties, blown assignments). Even if the schedule is weak, the players are able to hone their skills and practice their techniques in hopes thay have them figured out by the time they play a good team.

  42. sherminator says:

    Southendzone -

    the 1st PI on Sherman was valid – he pulled on the receiver’s front shoulder while reaching around from the rear, and it was obvious. Revis or Asmougha might have gotten away with that, but no Seahawk. The 2nd PI was bogus. It was the “hand on the farside hip” type. That was a bogus call. It can appear to be hooking, but it is really just feeling where the receiver is while keeping your eyes on the ball. If you can’t do that while playing DB, then you might as well just rush 11 every time instead. As a former (way long ago and not very good) DB, I just hate the way the game is called now.

  43. “The 2nd PI was bogus. It was the “hand on the farside hip” type. That was a bogus call.”

    totally agree. Browner is getting reputation calls, which is b.s.

  44. The only thing I question is the journalism credentials of the writer of the lead article. Rather than doing the job of sports coverage and analysis (and having an opinion), a series of questions are put out there to make the readers do it. Is that normal?

    On the other hand, I’m here for free. I guess you get what you pay for…

  45. Dukeshire says:

    sharke – The re-cap post after a game, for the better part of 3 years now, is designed to initiate immediate reaction from the readers and generate conversation. In short; yes, it’s normal. The guys (Eric, Doug, Dave, et al.) don’t have time for an in-depth post as they are quickly heading to the locker-room for post game quotes, pressers and interviews. The analysis comes later, generally the next day. I would actually suggest getting a feel for the blog and it’s rhythms before questioning anyone’s “journalistic credentials” if I may.

  46. sharke – like Duke said, this is a blog, not an article. Blogs, at their best, are informal discussions with readers.

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