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Morning links: Gurode to visit Hawks

Post by Eric Williams on Aug. 30, 2011 at 8:44 am with 57 Comments »
August 30, 2011 8:50 am
Dallas Cowboys center Andre Gurode (65) during an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears Sunday, Sept. 19, 2010 in Arlington, Texas. (AP Photo/Tim Sharp)

ESPN’s John Clayton is reporting that Andre Gurode, recently released by the Dallas Cowboys, will visit Seattle this afternoon.

Clayton reports that Gurode has generated interest from six teams.
The five-time Pro Bowler was let go by the Cowboys after declining to restructure his $5.5 million base salary for 2011.

However, with the Seahawks recent struggles up front, the 33-year-old would add some much-needed experience. A natural center, the Seahawks could plug him in the middle and move Max Unger to right guard. Or they could plug in Gurode at center and move third round pick John Moffitt to the bench.

Gurode played for Seattle offensive line coach Tom Cable while he coached at Colorado, and also played some guard for the Cowboys before moving to center in 2006.

Here’s some background on what happened with Gurode in Dallas.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com tells us what worked and what did not work from Saturday’s game.

Dave Wyman of ESPN 710 Seattle explains why Tarvaris Jackson is facing so much pressure in the pocket the first three games of the preseason.

Jim Moore of ESPN 710 Seattle again wonders aloud why Jackson is the starter over Charlie Whitehurst.

Peter King of Sports Illustrated picks Seattle to finish 6-10 and finish third in the NFC West. He says St. Louis will win the division at 9-7, followed by Arizona at 7-9, Seattle at 6-10 and San Francisco at 5-11. King also predicts Falcons will take down the Chargers, 24–20, in Super Bowl XLVI.

Matt Bowen of the National Football Post breaks down the perils of running Cover 2 in the red zone.

Mike Silver of Yahoo Sports writes that players from New Orleans defense are using Marshawn Lynch’s fabled run as motivation to play better this season.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 57
  1. chuck_easton says:

    I wish there was no report that Gurode was coming in. Even if it just to kick the tires we are now going to have to listen to people on here all day wondering:

    When we will sign him
    “Just pay him what he wants”
    Who is going to be benched
    How great it is to get him

    Then when he eventually signs somewhere else we will have to have days of :

    Why didn’t they sign him
    This FO is so stupid to let him get away
    Now we’re doomed, the sky is falling, here comes a 2-14 season.

    Fact is, he’s an older Center who was let go by his team because he’s not worth $5.5 million anymore. He won’t suddenly make us a better team. We are not a pro-bowl center away from being a contender.

    Also, I don’t see how this helps the line gel other than you give one of the two rookies time to practice all season before they are thrown to the wolves next year. But I really don’t see either Unger or Moffitt as the problem. If anything Carpenter is the one that needs help and bringing in a Center does nothing to improve the RT position.

  2. Just focus on the intrigue, Chuck…the intrigue!

  3. Kingpear says:

    Chuck

    I really don’t care about the useless chatter, but I agree with you on the Carpenter issue. To me it seems to be easier to cover the mistakes of a guard inside than the RT getting his @ss handed to him by Von Miller.

    If anything, we should take a declining LT moved to RT, or veteran RT to give some stability to the right side. But that would require the FO to admit that Carp was a reach.

  4. We need to remember that Carpenter has been on the field practicing as an NFL Player for a total of only about 30 hours so far.

    No OTAs, shortened camp, etc. He’ll be okay when he gets into game shape and after a little seasoning.

    They’ll use RBs and TEs when necessary to help him in pass pro until he adjusts.

    Couldn’t hurt to have a pro-bowl center in the house even if he is getting a bit long in the tooth. Seems doubtful he’d accept a back-up roll.

  5. chuck_easton says:

    He definitely won’t accept a backup role. He will go to some team that will give him starter’s money and a starters job. If that turns out to be Seattle, so be it.

    I’m going to break my own rule here, but that would mean Unger to the bench or Unger to RG and Moffitt to the bench. OK let the chatter begin.

  6. The CNNSI analysis of Carpenter coming out was:

    Analysis: “Carpenter has been a terrific player for Alabama and is a prospect who does not look the part yet plays well every weekend. He’ll be slightly downgraded because of his poor athleticism, but he has potential at guard or possibly left tackle in the right system.”

    This analysis pretty much describes what we have seen from him so far.

    We have a pretty good collection of OL experts on this board and no one saw Carpenter being taken that high. Maybe all these guys were right and Cable was wrong?

  7. “possibly left tackle in the right system.”

    Don’t they mean right tackle? He doesn’t seem well suited to LT in the NFL at all.

  8. beavercleaver says:

    This presents an interesting dilemma. I agree that Unger is not the problem and Moffit isn’t really either – but 2 rookies on the right side is a problem. Lost in the discussion of the poor pass protection is the missed assignments in the run blocking that I’ve seen in the past 2 games. Defensive guys coming through gaps untouched to hit RB in the backfield. Right now, for us having all these “Big huge road graders” I haven’t seen a lot of push except defenses pushing us back and lots of missed assignments.
    I don’t think having rookies (even 1st rounders) playing a back up role makes them a failure or a bust. Personally I would try to get a veteran RG & LG and have Moffit and Carp be quality depth. The offense can’t even function as it is now.
    Bringing in an experienced 5 time pro bowler won’t hurt the line. But he will want to play C which would probably move Unger to RG and Moffit to a back up role. The problem I see in that is Unger is a Tobeck type center, undersized but smart and feisty. He’s not a big overpowering RG. That , IMHO, could hurt the run game. My two cents.

  9. beavercleaver says:

    Sorry , where I put RG &LG I meant RG &RT. Wheres my proof reader.

  10. Dukeshire says:

    Why does Gurode coming in sent Moffitt to the bench? Moffitt’s the least of their problems up front, let alone to be replaced by Unger.

    In Moffitt’s case, if we’re talking missed assignments, that’s going to happen. They’ve been in camp what, 5 weeks? Let him play through it until he shows he simply can’t pick it up. We’re not even close to that point yet. However, if we’re talking a physical issue where he simply can’t perform regardless if he’s assignment correct, then that’s another matter. Haven’t seen that at all.

  11. I have mixed feelings in this one. I hate to bring in another lineman on the downside of his career. That hasn’t worked out for the Hawks in the past. I also want to the offense to function a little better and last Saturday was utter dysfunction.

  12. chuck_easton says:

    Duke,

    That’s my point. Gurode is a Center. What does getting a new Center have to do with helping the line as it stands rignt now?

    You move one of the two guys (Unger or Moffitt) to the bench that haven’t appeared to be an issue. If the team wants to go out and get an older quality RT and give Carpenter time to learn the system OK. But Center doesn’t make sense other than he’s a ‘big name’ and former pro-bowler.

  13. It seems like to front office needs to decide how patient it is going to be with the youth movement vs. Putting the best product possible on the field. A line with 4 guys with limited or no experience is going to struggle. This should come as no surprise to anyone.

    Http://hawkandroll.blogspot.com

  14. bird_spit says:

    Holmgren was the one that said draft DL, FA for OL. Experience matters most on the OL. DL can use quickness to compensate for stupid (but def not true for LB aka Curry).

  15. GriffinNW says:

    rossijt – Who says the guy is on the downside of his career? Has he lost a step in his game? If I read correctly, he has made the pro bowl the past 5 years, and he also didn’t want to restructure his contract. That doesn’t really mean he is on the downside, though he is 33 years old, which seems to be one of the main issues. That and taking away from the new guys.

  16. OCHawkFan says:

    Birdspit….Holmgren did the exact opposite. He used the draft to acquire the two best OL is Hawks history (Jones and Hutch), and used FA to acquire DL (Wistrom, Fischer, Darby, etc.). The only impact DL he drafted was Tubbs.

  17. Tobeck went to the pro-bowl when he was 35, and he didn’t have nearly the same physical talent as Gurode. He could decline and still play at a high level for 3-5 more years barring injuries.

  18. Jones was already a Seahawk when Holmy took over.

  19. If you think about it, though…Gurode may be able to help Moffit and Carpenter more than Unger…plus Gurode would upgrade play at his position as well. That way, we only have the right side to worry about…Okung, Gallery, Gurode sounds pretty good to me.

  20. Dukeshire says:

    chuck_easton – I have no problem with that and tend to agree. I was commenting on Eric and beavercleaver’s comments. (I read yours after and see where you mirror Eric a bit…)

  21. I want TJack to have every op to excell and until they shore up the o line it’s not going to happen. Maybe a pro bowl center is a step in the right direction for a season or two. No telling who else might pop up shortly. Certain they are well under the cap currently.

  22. ryanryan says:

    perhaps Unger isn’t calling the right assignments and thats why protection is breaking down? Maybe Unger didn’t tell Carpenter to block Von Miller, he just said stand there, look slow and make sure you’re available to pick Jackson up after he is planted into the turf…stupid Unger, that MUST be it.

    a little cynical, I know.

    And chuck – quite a few of us thought that we didn’t have a chance to get Zach Miller either. Besides, isn’t that why we log on here – to chat about the shoulda, woulda and coulda’s with the organization? If not that, what?

  23. chuck_easton says:

    We are in agreement Duke,

    Is Gurode an upgrade over Unger? Almost definitely. But here’s my analogy

    You have three cars parked in your driveway from left to right:

    Lexus, Honda, Pinto

    Why upgrade the Lexus to a BMW only to move the Lexus one spot over to the spot occupied by the Honda, get rid of the Honda and leave the Pinto sitting in the driveway?

    Sure you upraded two spots but did you need to upgrade the Lexus (or Honda)? Wouldn’t it be better to do something about the Pinto first?

  24. chuck_easton says:

    I know it’s harsh equating Carpenter to a Pinto and he may very well be a Benz that just needs time and a full detailing, but right now his position is the most glaring ‘eyesore’ out there.

  25. Everyone is blaming no OTA’s or camp on carpenter not playing well. Then how come Camiri is not having the same issues in Chicago?

    Since we picked before Camiri was picked in think that is a legit question. Even on draft day many of us asked that question.

    Maybe we should hire someone else draft round 1 and 2 for us. We seem to kick butt after that

  26. I have heard Tim Ryan on Sirius radio talk in length about how difficult it can be to move from the left side to the right for a lineman everything you have been doing is backwards. I would think it would take any rookie a few games to become accustomed to the change. If Okung had been asked to move to the right he may have had problems also, so I am not to worried yet. To me Unger may be undersized and may be better as a back up.

  27. I’d equate Carpenter to something more like a Sherman Tank.

  28. If we don sign him I think we will need to find a long term solution to unger. You can’t think that
    1. I didn’t beat out Spencer and they let him go
    2. They are now bringing in an old fart to take my place

    Therefore: they don’t really want me.

    Gotta be hard to play in those conditions

  29. Dukeshire says:

    Here’s the other thing, if the intend to sign him, wouldn’t they have to make 3 cuts today? Or is Chuck right, a possible trade in the works…

  30. Who said trade – didn’t see that anywhere, But who knows what might be happening!!

    These guys do keep you on the edge of your seat!

  31. beavercleaver says:

    Duke, Gurode sending Moffit to the bench is just based off of several assumptions and not a given.
    You would assume Gurode would only sign on as a starter and he doesn’t play RT. So he replaces Unger at C. Okay, Unger to the bench but that doesn’t solve the problem of two Rooks on the right side. Unger has some veteran experience at RG. Does he start in place of Moffit? Thats for Cable to decide, but I made the assumption that he does. The true facts are it’s the two tackles that are struggling (the most) and that 5 weeks or not the NFL regular season is not the place for excuses or a training ground for wannabes. The fan base and press will not put up with the line play we have seen for an entire season waiting for players to “gel.”
    I think PC is wisely using the preseason to evaluate and see what he has to do. I think he was hoping for vast improvement from the Minn. game to the Denver game. Didn’t happen. PC and Cable will need to decide who plays and who sits and learns.

  32. Ewalters7354 says:

    Its crazy how people automatically think that once a person reaches 30 or older that you are washed up.The reason ybe Cowbowys cut the man is because they are struggling with the cap issues.The guy can play and will bring much needed help and experience along the oline.Pete Carroll wants to win NOW even though we may not he wants to put the best players on the field.I like Max Unger and would be happy if he continues to be our starting center.My whole thing is why isn’t Pete bringing.g in any QB’s and sticking with Tjack.He’s not even letting Charlie compete for the job.

  33. beavercleaver says:

    Nobody ever mentions that we didn’t resign Willis this offseason and he was picked up for peanuts. He was a decent veteran backup RT. Be nice to still have him right now.

  34. Sarcasticus says:

    Carpenter is not a great lineman. He was not great at Alabama. Trust me, I live in Alabama, love The Tide, and watch every game (often times twice). He is an imposing player who rarely imposes his will on defenses. At Alabama, it seemed like he usually played for a tie. The DE got some push but not enough to reach the qb, or Carpenter shielded him just enough to let the backs get the edge.

    I think he can be a serviceable RT in the NFL with enough experience. Don’t expect anything more than that. If for some reason he flips the switch and becomes amazing, we can all rejoice. I wouldn’t bet on it, though.

  35. Dukeshire says:

    beavercleaver – I hear you. And considering that Carp is the first rounder it’s “safe” to presume they’ll give him the benefit of the doubt over a 3rd rounder. But, despite blown assignments at times, Moffitt hasn’t played badly all things considered IMO and I’m not convinced replacing him with Unger is an upgrade. That is, if Unger comes in and plays at a similar level, all that’s been done is arrest Moffitt’s maturation, so to speak. At least IMO.

  36. The Hawks just cut DT Alford and S Thenarse.

  37. the cover 2 article is a interesting read!! short and easy to understand!!

  38. Dukeshire says:

    Sarcasticus – I remember during the SR Bowl after being so impressed with Carp’s practices, you said basically the same thing. My concern with him is the lateral quickness. Granted, Von MIller’s going to make a lot of tackles look slow. But That wasn’t an isolated game. Very early still and a long way to go.

  39. Hawks couldn’t push the ball over the goal after 4 attempts from the 1. Gurode is suppose to be an excellent run blocker, Unger is not. Moffitt is probably secure at RG.
    A move like this isn’t something I’ll question it is the one’s that have led up to it. Never seen so much invested into an offensive line and still it is one of the worst. At least Okung should make it back for the opener. TE next to Carpenter should do the trick. Can only hope.

  40. ballgame says:

    So I was trying to get a handle on what the Hawk’s final roster will look like and if you assume that they keep at least 3 QB’s, 4 RB’s, 5 WR’s, 3 TE’s, 10 OL, 9 DL, 5 Lb’s, 9 DB’s, and 3 ST. that gives them 51 players.

    So really the guys fighting the last 2 spots would be J. Johnson, Legree, Sherman (I’m counting maxwell as one of the 9 DB’s already), M. McCoy, Bryd, Clayton, & Durham. I would assume that since Durham is 4th round pick he makes it. So that leaves 1 spot left for the remaining 6 guys, of course if they cut Tate then there would be 2 spots left.

    Either way we are going to be cutting some good football players. A problem we haven’t had in years.

  41. Dave Wyman’s article explains alotta the pressure TJax is getting on the opponent DCs not having OTAs and having half the practices to work with under the new CBA. They’re trying out every blitz package in preseason games and/or bringing six every down, using preseason games for practices. SEA has been putting Carp on an island to see how he’ll do. For a LT moving to RT with 1,000 less chances to practice, we’ve ended up getting what we’ve seen.

    Andre Gurode might be an improvement over Unger at run-blkg (which still seems kinda contradictory to me for a zone-blkg team). Unger has been good this pre-season at pass-pro, but haven’t been impressed at Unger’s run-blkg (yet). Maybe I need a new prescription for my glasses, but I sure wouldn’t move Unger to RG. Unger’s a hummer, a Cable ZBing RG needs to be at least a deuce and a half (Moffitt). Keep Miller in beside Carp to block against the Dumervilles and Von Millers.

    For a RT Carp isn’t very quick-footed, he’s stiff in the hips – doesn’t change direction well, gets high-centered in pass-pro, was late off the snap a coupla times in DEN and SD, and occasionally dives (unbalanced) to the defender and then gets beat inside with a double-move. All these problems might improve with further play at the RT position, and they sure as heck should improve with a good blocking TE on his side (when needed).

  42. Portis might go to the PS. Hawks could keep 2 QBs and still have an emergency QB with our FB M.Robinson.

  43. ballgame says:

    klm008: that is what I was thinking to, but everyone seems to think that he would get claimed and not make it through waivers, so I included him on the final roster, although after looking at the guys we would have to cut I would rather take that chance.

  44. Mr Williams:
    SEA also had a Mike Karney visit today(?) Anything on that?

  45. ballgame-
    I noticed they didn’t play Portis at DEN, so thought they might be trying to keep him ‘under wraps’ maybe. See if he plays vs OAK.

  46. I think we get to dress 54 guys this season. I didn’t see STs on your list Ryan, Reed and the long snapper?

  47. ballgame says:

    nope roster still set at 53 guys, the only change is before you could only have 45 guys active with 1 3rd QB for the 46 guy. This year you get 46 guys whoever you want them to be. and the 3 ST guys included Rya, Reed, and Gresham (LS).

  48. By signing Jackson, whether the front office knows it or not, they gave up on the season. They basically told me that: “We suck at our QB evaluations but we’ve done a great job with everything.”

    My vision is 2012 and there’s no way that Unger/Moffitt/Carpenter shouldn’t go into that season having gone through an entire season together (health can always change this). It’s long term thinking and that’s what needs to be done if we want to build this thing the right way. All we ever hear about is how continuity is so damn important for an offensive line… so give them that chance to grow together. There’s a lot of things in life where you have to take your lumps in orger to gain that experience or wisdom to get to where you want to go. Adding Gurode makes our offensive line better, I have no doubt about it, he’s still a good player, but sometimes you’ve got to realize that the short term fix isn’t worth it. I hope the long term vision wins out over the short term gratification.

  49. ballgame says:

    @ BobbyK: I agree with you that they are punting this season, but I actually think that by signing Jackson they can evaluate QB’s. I think they looked at Andy Dalton vs next years draft class made up their mind that they would get there guy next year. Which given the option I think is really smart. They then took a flyer on Jackson hoping that he might develop if cuddled. Really are QB play can’t be worse that what we got last year regardless of who plays QB.

  50. Jackson isn’t going to win a play-off game throwing for over 300 yards. And it can always be worse (even with improved offensive weapons). We’re about to see…

  51. piperfeltcher says:

    Judging from our O-line it is a good thing we did not draft a QB as he would just get killed and lose confidence.

  52. ballgame says:

    Being reported that John Carlson is done for the year with shoulder surgery.

  53. chuck_easton says:

    Yep,

    Now no cuts at TE to speak of. McCoy is the backup and Byrd is the 3rd string TE. Once Morrah comes back from PUP, if he does, things can change.

  54. I’m a little bit relieved, actually….I like Carlson…but I like all of our TEs. This will give Byrd and McCoy a chance to develop, so maybe there will be some trade value there by next year.

  55. Sarcasticus says:

    Right now I would just settle for Carpenter not being a liability. He doesn’t have to be great.

  56. LuckyCharms says:

    @ ballgame

    That roster you put forth is pretty accurate I think in terms of how many they’ll keep at those positions. Agree they’ll keep Durham, but is he really going to play? I mean, the way Baldwin has played in camp he’s the 4th WR imo. Tate will play sparingly a snap or two, or if someone gets hurt.

    My point is that keeping a player around just because he was your 4th rd pick hurts the team because someone else must be let go. As far as RB, I view Washington and Forsett as similar style players, with Washington being more of the slasher/speed guy. I’d keep him and Clayton and let Forsett go. Clayton has showed toughness running inside.

    As far as QB, unless they think Portis is “their QB of the future”, then he probably should be on the practice squad for a year. Again, it hurts to have a player who isn’t going to play barring injury take up a valuable roster spot.

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