Seahawks Insider

Take of the week: Should Mora stay or go?

Post by Eric Williams on Jan. 2, 2010 at 8:42 am with 99 Comments »
January 2, 2010 9:04 am
Seattle Seahawks head coach Jim Mora, Ted Warren/AP
Seattle Seahawks head coach Jim Mora, Ted Warren/AP

Editor’s note: This is a weekly series where frequent contributors to the comments section of the Seahawks Insider blog are offered a forum to voice their opinion on a specific topic of choice involving the Seahawks. Submissions are read and edited beforehand.

Show Mora the door

BY H.D. Price (Nighthawk2)

The Seattle Seahawks appear to be a team divided, and a team adrift. Three of Seattle’s receivers recently were on a local radio station throwing the coach under the bus – specifically the offensive coordinator – in Deion Branch, T.J. Houshmandzadeh and Nate Burleson.

Before that, offensive guard Rob Sims fired pot shots at head coach Jim Mora. Earlier in the season Mora, during a post-game press conference, threw kicker Olindo Mare under the bus (after the Chicago game I believe it was) and then the offensive line got the same treatment (after the Houston game).

This kind of toxic atmosphere and acrimonious attitude between players and coaches cannot be tolerated. A winning organization does not have a player going on the air saying he’s smarter than the coaches and knows better than they do because he previously was on a franchise that won a couple of Super Bowls, especially one who has done nothing to justify the huge contract he was given, and mugs for the camera saying in effect to other teams “trade for me.” It’s just one more sign that Mora has lost this team and it is completely rudderless.

Moragrant_9

The Seahawks have lost 22 of the last 31 games over the last, two seasons, and they’re out of playoff contention for the second straight year. In all likelihood it will be 23 out of 32 after Sunday. Nine wins in two seasons, combined.

The architect of this disaster was, of course, former GM Tim Ruskell, who resigned about halfway through the season when he finally figured out they weren’t going to renew his contract at season’s end. Mora is Ruskell’s guy. He was brought in as a secondary coach by Ruskell, and then later hired to replace Mike Holmgren when the longtime head coach decided to take a year away from the game.

The personnel problems are in Ruskell’s lap, and in my opinion a big turnover of the roster is needed (starting with Branch and other injury-prone, malignant personalities and non performers). But part of the problem is the misuse or even non-use of some players who showed talent this year, such as Justin Forsett, who got stuck behind Julius Jones when it was clear whenever Forsett was on the field that he was the superior player and playmaker.

Then there was the negation of John Carlson’s talents as a receiver by keeping him in for blocking because the offensive tackle position was ignored in the 2009 offseason. I don’t recall seeing many options used to get Carlson more involved that a good OC should come up with. The linebackers were not used effectively throughout the season for pass or run blitzes, few if any halftime adjustments made during games, and the same bland, repetitive promises and blaming certain players or positions with “we’re going to work hard, we’re going to fix this” as the losses piled up. I don’t think Mora is a bad guy nor his staff bad guys, but I do think, as a fan for 30-plus years, he’s not the right guy to be head coach here.

The players clearly tuned out weeks ago. Ruskell built the funeral pyre and lit the match for what was a Super Bowl team four years ago, and Mora threw gas on the fire to burn it down.

Hiring a new GM is a first step. That new GM needs to hire a new head coach who will bring in a new staff and a new roster. Firing a coach after one season is unusual, but not unprecedented. Eric Mangini may be fired after this season, his first at Cleveland. Ray Rhodes was fired by Green Bay in 2000 after one year. Then-Packers GM Ron Wolf said something interesting regarding Rhodes that seems relevant to Mora’s tenure here: “For whatever reason, our players did not respond to this program. We will begin our search for a new coach at once.”

Wolf made no effort to hide his disappointment.

“Is he a different coach than I thought he was?” he said of Rhodes. “Yes, the answer to that is yes. What I think we have to have here is a well-disciplined, tough, hard-nosed football team. That’s the way you’re successful in this business. We have to develop that. We don’t have that here.”

We don’t have that here either. And for that and a variety of reasons I think the best thing for the Seahawks is to fire Jim Mora and his staff and start over with a new GM, a new coaching staff and a new roster.

Moraintense_9

Keep Mora: Change takes time

BY Jerry Vincent (HawkFan1951)

After the last, three games, I understand most people are in the “let’s blow this team, the coaches and front office up” mode, but I would like to make a comparison here. I am focusing on players, and not coaches (I’ll save that comparison for another time).

If we use the 2005 Super Bowl team as the “high point” of the franchise, then let’s compare players.

There are nine players from the SB team still with the Seahawks (16.98%), four on offense and five on defense. Thy include Matt Hasselbeck, Seneca Wallace, Sean Locklear and Walter Jones on offense, and Marcus Trufant, Jordan Babineaux, Lofa Tatupu, Leroy Hill and Craig Terrill on defense.

tatupuhurt_7

Three of those players (2 Offense, 1 Defense) have spent all or part of this season on IR/PUP (so lets take away two of them, Walter Jones as one and Tatupu/Trufant split the year as two. This reduces the 2005 players to 13.20%). That makes 83.02% (or 87.80%) of the current team new players since 2005. Former president and general manager Tim Ruskell is responsible for those “new” selections. In previous posts, that’s why I’ve called this “TR’s team.” TR focused on players with “character.” TR passed on players with troubled or problem pasts… on or off the field.

Add to the equation that in the last, four years, TR failed repeatedly to fix the O-line to protect Hasselbeck, and also failed to get a quality RB to replace Shaun Alexander. For a ‘Defense minded” GM, TR also brought in older, injury plagued players for limited “upgrades” to the defense (and it didn’t work). To me, it’s clear why this current team has the problems they do.

That’s my comparison. Now let me comment on several other points.

1. Now that TR is gone, why focus all the blow-torches on current head coach Jim Mora? Look at the players he’s been dealt to work with. Look at the “character culture” TR brought into the clubhouse!

Last week, Mora spoke about wanting to get some “dirt bags” for players. Not dirt bags off the field but for the 5 – 10 seconds of each play. To me, THAT said more about rejecting TR’s legacy than anything Mora has said all season!

Is THAT the reason some of these players have tuned out? Maybe. I do think the hand writing is on the wall inside the locker-room that there will be more ‘older players’ out looking for a job with another team next year than are kept. This is SOLELY to change the culture in the locker room. If the culture of an organization is going to change, it MUST change from the TOP, DOWN. There’s no other way for it to become effective!

2. Comparing Mora to Ken Whisenhunt is hilarious! Whisenhunt took over a perennial loser in Arizona and had nowhere to go but UP. Mora replaced a legend in Mike Holmgren that had built the team nucleus in 2005. During the time since, TR systematically destroyed the culture by not making the team BETTER during his time as head of the team’s football operations.

This team is not the same as last year’s team or the years previous. It will not be the same team in the years to come. Mora does not make the plays on the field, players do. Remember what Chuck Knox used to say, “Football players make football plays!”

Working with the new management, Mora deserves an honest chance to make the changes in players and culture to fix these problems. With these current players, one year is not being given an honest chance to succeed. “Change” takes time.

Categories:
Take of the week
Leave a comment Comments → 99
  1. One thing Whiz had going to him that Mora doesn’t is inheriting talent like Warner, Fitz, Boldin, Dockett, Dansby, Wilson, etc. Heck, I believe that all of the Pro Bowlers for AZ except Rodgers-Cromartie were players that Denny Green brought in, but didn’t get more time to gel with.

    Winning certainly cures all ills. How many times has Boldin thrown Whiz under the bus? He’s cried like a little baby over and over again about his contract, pouted when they went to the Super Bowl, and even questioned the manhood of his coach after being inactive earlier this year.

    Both good articles by the way (1951/nighthawk).

  2. snydro22 says:

    Whether Mora stays or not, Knapp has to go.. They won’t be getting any more of my money as long as Greg Knapp is employed..

  3. bulldog80 says:

    Good reads guys. However, on Mora it’s very simple. He has failed to make any positive difference on this football team in way. You can blame talent all you want, but there is no reason to believe that this staff would do anything better with different talent. I would be ok with the losing as long as there was even a glimmer of hope that we were going to actually improve. This team has actually gotten worse from week to week. This staff has shown they are clueless, as well as, classless. They need to be shown the door. The seahawks fans deserve better than this. Nighthawk, your article gets checkmate

  4. fenderdb says:

    I was wary of Mora taking the job after he lead such a dismal secondary in 2008. I feel strongly that the way the transition was handled really put a sour note Holmgren’s last season and has basically put our team into a downward spiral ever since.

    I think the bad decisions of the last 3 seasons have made it necessary to clean house completely and start fresh.

    Top to bottom.

    Let Mora spend a few years as a positions coach elsewhere or doing Color on Fox.

  5. pabuwal says:

    Somehow the team which we knew was bad early on has gotten significantly worse as the season has progressed. This with an easier schedule and a fairly healthy team.

  6. yellaman says:

    Well said Eric- The coaching staff has lost this team ( for weeks now) and its time to clean house. The new GM should have some say as to the coaches on this team and if he wants to bring back mora that’s ok with me. ( I think Mora should get another year) but the OC & DC (knapp & Bradley) they have to go. The new GM is going to bring in players to run a system. Maybe the new GM likes players that fit a certain style of play (like the 3-4 defense) and he shouldn’t have to bring in players to fit this coaching staff philosophy. The coaching staff needs to be able to adapt to the talent. That is the biggest problem with this team is the lack of overall talent and the coaching staffs inability to not use team personnel effectively. We know that this team is not Super bowl contenders but they shouldn’t be the worst playng team in the league right now either

  7. yellaman says:

    Let me say I like Jim Mora- BUT YOU CAN’T CALL OUT PLAYERS IN THE MEDIA THEN EXPECT THEM TO PERFORM FOR YOU ON SUNDAY’S. ALSO HE SHOWS TO MUCH LOYALTY TO HIS VETERAN PLAYERS AND HIS COACHING STAFF EVEN WHEN THEY ARE FAILING HIM. FOOTBALL IS A TOUGH BUSINESS AND HE NEEDS TO GET TOUGHER. wHEN THE MEDIA ASKS HIM ABOUT APLEYR WHO IS NOT PERFORMING UP TO PAR SAY NO COMMENT BECAUSE THE FANS ALREADY KNOW THAT PLAYER IS PLAYING HORRIBLE. IF THE MEDIA ASKS HIM TO GRADE AN AREA OF THE TEAM DON’T SUGAR COAT IT AND EXPECT THE FANS TO BUY THE $@#$ HE IS SHOVELING mORA JUST NEED TO BE REAL AND SAY WE NEED TO UPGRADE THE THAT AREA

  8. ElPerroGrandeIII says:

    Jim Mora is a horriifc coach who brought in a bunch of his croanies who are even more horrific than he is. Unfortunately we have a terrible owner and some bozo named Lieweke with ZERO football experience running the team. The Hawks have, unfortunately, become a joke of a franchise and are likely to remain one until Paul Allen wakes up from his coma and sells the team to someone who “gets it”.

  9. ArterioZ says:

    I have no problem with removing Mora after this season.

    What he has demonstrated this year is that he is not a superstar coach who gets the very best out of his players. The team has performed worse as this season unfolded (and the injured players returned).

    If the new GM has another head coach in mind, he should be able to hire him.

  10. Eric,

    I really like how you had a “for” and “against” on the same topic. It reminds me of the election pamphlets where they let supporters and opponents present their best arguments.

  11. 1951, nighthawk,

    Great job guys!

  12. This is such a tough call with Mora because he’s a hometown guy and because he’s so young. If (yes, I know…that’s a big IF) we keep him and he turns out to be great, we’ll have a coaching staff that could be in place for the next 20-25 years. If we hire a Gruden, Shanahan, or Cowher, we may get another Superbow.l but they’ll be more likely than Mora to leave coaching again, which puts us back into the market for another coach.

    I really think part of Lieweke’s vision is to hire young, hungry coaches and managers, so we can build a dynasty and maintain that tradition for a long time.

    If we can bring in Eckert as GM from Philidelphia, and bring in Zorn as OC, I think we could give Mora one more year to prove himself. I would really like to see how much this team would improve with a decent OL and a pass rush.

  13. My vote is by by Mora. If for no other reason:

    1. The idiotic hiring of Greg Knapp
    2. The lack of use of Forsett & Carlson
    3. Changing the offense that most of these players (esp Matt) knew like the back of there hand

  14. vichawkfan says:

    All the reasons above plus the fact the team has shown ZERO continuity or heart down the stretch. All the other crappy teams, Oakland/KC/Lions have at least given effort, and I know Mora keeps telling us that the team is fighting hard, so he’s also a patronizing liar.

  15. Hey guys,

    Please be sure to post your remarks on these “Take Of The Week” threads to ensure that they are popular enough to justify keeping them. I think there’s a lot of value to these posts because they add a lot more content and conversation points and because the perspective is different from what Eric and Ryan can provide as TNT employees.

    Thanks for your efforts, guys!

  16. Dukeshire says:

    I like the point / counter point layout.

    For my money I’m with the “show Mora the door” crowd. Of all the things I can point to that would articulate my reasons why, none of them are as baffling to me as the “change the culture” hyperbole. This is a team with a winning background. A perennial division winner and he wants to change that mindset. (I can only presume that is what he’s referring to. In all honesty, I really have no idea what that means. It strikes me as something the blow hards on ESPN came up with and has now been adapted by the masses, including coaches when they have little in the way of substance to offer. But I digress…) Anyone who wants to “change” that and isn’t thoughtful enough to realize what it is that he is suggesting. isn’t trustworthy enough to right this ship, IMO. This “culture” needs restoring and the first step was to let Ruskell go. The next will be to replace Mora, IMO. However, without a GM in place, I think it’s unlikely (until that position is filled). That may be weeks, if the ‘Hawks are serious about any candidate whose teams’ are in the playoffs. That and that alone may be enough to save Mora’s job for another season.

    Knapp, on the other hand, should be out of a job within 72 hours. He is an absolute disaster, his strategy, play-calling, mis-use of personnel, lack of game day adjustments and an offensive unit that universally distrusts him make Mora look like Bill Walsh by comparison.

    ElPerro – Leiweke is not running the football team. Ruston Webster is botching that assignment.

    Nice work fellas. Well done.

  17. Nighthawks and HawkFan1951, great stuff, guys!

    Eric, this is an excellent idea. Hopefully you can kick back a little while still posting great stuff! Thanks.

  18. Good point, Duke. The Seahawks don’t need to “change the culture” of a team that considered themselves a top-tier winning franchise only a year or two ago. The recent change to thinking like losers is the change that has to go.

  19. BlueTalon says:

    Duke and Stevos, you missed the point on the culture thing. Regardless of how much or little foundation in fact the reputation had, people have always labeled the Seahawks as a “finesse” team, as opposed to a “smashmouth” team. The climate Mora wanted to change was from a “finesse” climate to a “smashmouth” climate — I thought that was pretty clear from the things he said at the time that that was his intent. Now, he obviously hasn’t succeeded in creating that change, but that was his stated goal.

  20. Dukeshire says:

    “…people have always labeled the Seahawks as a “finesse” team, as opposed to a “smashmouth” team” – Are you suggestingthen, that he wanted to change peoples perception? Or the reality of what was happening on the field?

  21. I like this feature…thanks for incorporating it in.

    I’ll preface my comments by saying I was excited about Mora coming in, I think we all were to some extent. I believed his enthusiasm would spark some fire into our players that had been missing for a couple years. What I’ve come to question though, in all these discussions about keeping him around or letting him go, is the fact that his experience as a HC is very limited. Granted he has been in this league a long time, his dad was an HC for years (not a great one, though) and he’s been an understudy to a lot of talented HC’s. When you’re talking about replacing a coach, in this situation I think it’s fair to recognize that Mora hasn’t proven anything not only in Seattle but in Atlanta as well. For all of those hoping to keep him around I’d ask why him over someone with experience and who has proven he can win for more than a year or two (insert Gruden, Cowher, or any of the other big names out there).

    Great posts…here’s hoping for a short offseason with some moves that can get us excited for 2010 and beyond.

  22. I meant to finnish that paragraph by saying sometimes those given an opportunity to be a head coach just don’t have what it takes and it would benefit the organization to cut ties now versus constantly waiting for the coaches and players to realize their “talents.” If you don’t have, you don’t have it…and I think that’s what we’re dealing with here with Mora, he just doesn’t seem to have it.

  23. HawkFan1951, I was intrigued by your title “Change takes time”, as I would agree that the total turnover in coaching staff and schemes we saw this year usually leads to more losses for a team, and cannot be expected to bear fruit right away.

    But in your post, you really don’t support that statement. Instead, you retread old arguments about Tim Ruskell putting “soft” players on the team. I think this is overblown. Holmgren’s WCO was often called a soft finesse team. That didn’t bother Holmgren a bit, he laughed it off and coached his team to execute and win.

    Our coaching problems go far beyond “attitude”. Our young coaching staff, after capturing the players’ attention with their high-energy training camp, have shown themselves to be:
    1) ineffective at game planning each week,
    2) ineffective adjusting their schemes to the talent they have on their roster, and
    3) ineffective making half-time adjustments during games.

    These are Mora’s responsibilities. This is bad coaching.

    I agree with the idea that Mora wants a tougher team. But I don’t see that on the field.

    When Jim Mora said good offensive linemen need to be “dirt bags”, he’s talking about toughness. He didn’t mean he wants more bad-character jerks on the team. Ruskell’s avoidance of bringing bad-character guys to the team after clearing out jerks like Simmons and Stevens were among the few Good things he did.

    The question is whether Mora can unleash the potential of his players or not. That’s his job. From what I’ve seen, Mora and his coaches have failed to effectively teach the player’s their new schemes they wanted to teach, and now I am questioning their ability to adapt their schemes to the players they have.

    All players that make it onto NFL rosters are phenomenal athletes. They have all proven their ability to compete and win time and again. When a roster full of pro athletes looks as uncoordinated and lost as ours, Its time to look to the coaches and ask why.

    Why haven’t Mora’s players and schemes shown progress? Why do the Seahawks look more lost now than back in September? I’m running out of patience for Mora.

  24. ElPerroGrandeIII says:

    “we keep him and he turns out to be great, we’ll have a coaching staff that could be in place for the next 20-25 years”

    Perhaps the dumbest thing ever written. When was an NFL coaching staff in place for 25 years? Also, Mora and his staff are so pathetic I’d rather have the Seahawks leave town then have them around for another 25 hours, let alone 25 years.

  25. Not that this has been brought up, but I’ve been thinking this for awhile, and it bothers me when Ruskell/Mora would compare themselves with other first year coaches.

    I think Seattle and Indianapolis are unique. Neither team would have been in need of a coach if their former coaches had really wanted to stay around. I know Ruskell wanted his own guy; bla, bla, bla… I don’t want to turn this post into a “Holmgren got pushed out” or “Holmgren wanted to go somewhere else” statement. That’s not the point and I don’t care to agrue it. The fact is that under normal circumstances after last year, Dungy and Holmgren would not have been fired if their situations weren’t the way they were.

    Most first year coaches are in chage because the team they are taking over were terrible. Granted, the Seahawks were terrible last year, but they were not terrible to the point (thanks to injuries) where their coach would have been fired after last season (assuming Holmgren had another year on his contract).

    That means all Ruskell/Mora wanted to do is compare themselves to pathetic franchises who were so bad that their coaches got fired. These are bottom feeder franchises like Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, etc. Those are franchises who need to change their “culture.” But then again, I guess Mora wants to change our “culture” as several have already mentioned today and I agree with those of you who have said this that it’s ridiculous he thinks he needs to change it. Not that I’m trying to defend Mora, because I’m not, but I think he was referring to the fact that we are perceived as a “soft” franchise. The reporter was asking about the national perception and that’s part of where the “culture” thing came from. Still, I thought it was done with a bit of poor taste right as I saw that interview. Think of the positives, we only have to put up with one more game tomorrow (normally it’s one of the saddest days in my year, and this year I can’t wait for it to get over).

  26. Anyone else watching the game? I’ve seen most of the first half and have been impressed with Okung. I really hadn’t had much of a chance to see him this year. And the best part is that he’s going up against some pretty decent competition too. It’s one thing to read a bunch of internet sites saying the same thing about a player, but it’s another to actually see them for yourself. And this guy would look good in a Seahawk uniform.

  27. pabuwal says:

    You can’t call TB a bottom feeder franchise. They’ve had a great decade and were 9-7 last year after losing 4 in a row.

  28. And then, for the most part, they cleaned house, right? They went with a rookie QB. They got rid of a talented coach because they didn’t like him anymore and replaced him with some clown. You’re right, they haven’t been a bottom feeder franchise… but they are one now. Kind of like we have, all of a sudden, become. And it sucks.

  29. pabuwal says:

    Yeah, pretty much, although I have to wonder if TB has bottomed out and is now making the climb up. That would be pretty impressive if they were able to do it that quickly and it would say something about cleaning house and getting rid of former greatness rather than holding onto the past (Gruden).

    I don’t know where the Seahawks bottom is, although getting the cupcake schedule back sure would help. If Houston wins tomorrow, 6 of the road games were against teams that finished the year with winning records. They only played 7 total from 2004-2007.

  30. mrbaileyboy says:

    This is really a good feature. I hope the powers that run the paper keep it going.

    Mora is in over his head. Comments he makes show me a lack of maturity and good judgement. Not the qualities one looks for in any leadership position.

    Mora being fired in Atlanta because of shooting off his mouth without thinking should have been a red flag to Ruskell.

  31. earther says:

    Stevos:I think this is overblown. Holmgren’s WCO was often called a soft finesse team. That didn’t bother Holmgren a bit, he laughed it off and coached his team to execute and win.

    Yeah, that’s a misnomer. Always has been. There’s never been anything “un-tough” about a West Coast Offense. It’s just a different philosophy that emphasizes timing, precision and balance. In fact, since the 80′s everybody’s adopted those principles to some extent or another, although the only coach other than Seifert who ever came close to emulating Bill Walsh’s style was Holmgren (I saw a glimmer of it in Philadelphia in 2006 when Jeff Garcia took over for injured Donovan McNabb but I think, for the most part, Andy Reid’s got something different going with McNabb that seems to work pretty well).

    If you ask me calling anything having to do with the NFL “soft” is dumb. It’s like calling Conan O’Brien “funny” or Julia Roberts “attractive”. “Disorganized” is usually the adjective that is most appropriate when it comes to teams that appear soft.

    I agree with the idea that Mora wants a tougher team. But I don’t see that on the field.

    Me neither.

  32. I’m watching Russell Okung playing in the Cotton Bowl now.

    He supposedly has a bad knee injured this week that almost caused him to be held out. But he’s playing every snap and pancaking his man pretty effectively. He’s playing against an undersized speed rusher who had a lot of sacks and TFL, but he’s getting no real competition from him.

    I have a very hard time with the idea of scouting college athletes. I played college ball and feel I can judge defensive skills a bit, but imagining any of these guys going against NFL pros is just guesswork, even for the pro scouts.

    But I’m watching a LOT making a pass rusher disappear and protecting his QB play after play. I haven’t seen anyone in a Seahawks uniform do that lately. I’m ready. Okung looks fine to me at pick #7.

  33. I’m watching the same thing you are. I like what I see.

  34. pabuwal says:

    I always assumed that the reason the Seahawks were considered “soft” under Holmgren is they would pretty much lose every tough road game they played. Holmgren was 3-28 in road games against teams that finished the year with a winning record. There is an element of fraud there when we consider his in the context of his Seahawks tenure.

    “Tough” teams go on the road, play good teams and punch them in the mouth (offensively or defensively) kind of like what Arizona did to Carolina last year. That’s the greatest feeling as a fan. At least I think it is, given that I have been to many of these games and have left feeling I was the one punched in the mouth.

  35. earther says:

    pabuwal:I don’t know where the Seahawks bottom is, although getting the cupcake schedule back sure would help.

    What? You think Seattle had a tough schedule this year. In 15 games their opponents (counting each NFC West teams twice) had a record of 110-130, or a .458% winning percentage.

  36. The WCO 49ers set a record for number of consecutive games won on the road. Even though they were a “finesse” team, they were a “tough” team for winning all those games on the road. I was watching some top 10 or 20 show and that was voted one of the most impossible records to break (individual or team records).

  37. earther – I think he meant that we played a hard schedule this year, whereas we’ve had a ver easy schedule in about 5 years before that. If we got that easy schedule back, then we’d naturally improve.

  38. earther says:

    BobbyK:I think he meant that we played a hard schedule this year

    That’s why I pointed out that they had a very easy schedule this year.

  39. pabuwal says:

    Earther, 4 of those opponents were the Rams x2, the Bucs and the Lions. Take away those 4 and you get 103-77. The road schedule this year was brutal, something the Seahawks haven’t had to deal with in a very long time. And that worked to the Seahawks benefit.

  40. pabuwal says:

    The Seahawks played 5-6 games against playoff teams this year. They played 9 total from 2003-2007 with a record of 0-9.

  41. earther says:

    pabuwal:Earther, 4 of those opponents were the Rams x2, the Bucs and the Lions. Take away those 4 and you get 103-77.

    Well, since you can apply that same silly sophistry to every single team in the league I find it a little difficult to take your argument seriously.

  42. pabuwal says:

    So you really think this year’s Seahawks road schedule is the same as it was during the 2003-2007 run? This year had 5-6 road games against playoff teams vs 9 TOTAL from 2003-2007.

    If you really think that this year was an easy schedule, it’s impossible to take you seriously.

  43. earther says:

    pabuwal:So you really think this year’s Seahawks road schedule is the same as it was during the 2003-2007 run?

    I didn’t say anything about a road schedule. Neither did you until all this furious backpedaling started.

    Look, it seems pretty evident to me that you think I’m dumb and can be persuaded by these shunts and dodges. I’m not. If you want to contend that Seattle had a difficult schedule this year then go ahead. I contradicted it once, that’s enough for me. Go ahead and repeat it a thousand times if you like. I’ll keep quiet from now on (unless, of course, somebody else makes the same error sometime in the future. Then I might point out that they are wrong one more time. I do that sometimes).

  44. pabuwal says:

    Somehow you missed the fact every post I made today on this topic discussed the road schedule.

  45. seahawklovertoo says:

    It is very interesting to me that none has noticed these facts: 1) the first notice the team gave Mora after throwing Mare under the bus (even though we lost the Chicago game because of bad coaches calls on offense) was the game in Indy . 2) We haven’t won a game ever since he did the same to Spencer (and the OL) I do call Mora “the moron” (and some of you as well for the same reason) simply b/c if one is not “getting it” then they fully deserve the rough treatment. In Moras case, he is just NOT a HC caliber… I don’t think he is ( any sport ) coaching material. When I post something you don’t like , I get the cold shoulder treatment
    and get called ugly names . How do you think our ( millionaire ) players feel when Mora does the same? After all, they WERE successful enough in college football vs. Moras only accomplishment was a championship in “pant pockets billiards”.

  46. Dukeshire says:

    What in god’s name are you trying to say? What facts? You may have a terrific point, but it’s lost within a series of indecipherable sentences. Come on SLtoo, help us out by making your posts easier to read. (I apologize if this comes across as dickish and I don’t mean to single you out, it’s just that I’m tired of laboring through sloppy posts. This applies to several posters.)

  47. seahawklovertoo says:

    The first point was something I had recognized and posted right after the Colts game ( since everybody wandered about the lack of effort from our players ) that this team is NOT BUYING MORAS B.S. In other words, they have given-up on him as their coach. When that happens, the only way to get rid of a lousy coach is to stop winning until that coach is dismissed !! For that observation I was rewarded by animosity and insults form many of you (including you Duke and BK )
    The second point is self explanatory (I hope) .
    In other words , we could have kept Ruskell and fired Mora instead . With another coaching staff we would have finished at minimum of 8 – 8. I am glad that Ruskell was canned… all I am saying is the rest of the Tampa/Atlanta idiots should have been gone too.

  48. seahawklovertoo says:

    I have apologized many times for my poor writing skills and have tried many times to explain why it is so bad…I am done apologizing.

  49. seahawklovertoo says:

    Sorry, I’ll try again. In pro sports there is no such thing as : “me” or “I” or “him” . Even in the (individual) sport like tennis, when the coach speaks he/she uses “us”.
    Mora alienated his team when he singled out Mare as the sole reason for that loss. If he had included himself and the other coaches (together with the kicker)
    everything would have been different now. Than he did the same with Spencer after the Houston loss. ( Spencer didn’t put a gun to his head to play him injured for a whole month).

  50. elkhorn says:

    I am 50/50 on Mora. I am not happy with the way things are going, but I am not going to get all rattled and go ALL CAPS on anyone. People judge him by 2008′s secondary performance. Its not as if he has great talent back there, only Trufant and Wilson could maybe start somewhere else and Wilson is the Verne Troyer of corners. It seems to me people think that a coach can magically make Babs and Grant into great safeties, or turn Locklear into Walter Jones. Mora isnt without fault, but unless he wanted to keep Holmgrens entire playbook, he is working a system with players that for the most part he didnt pick. The WCO wasnt working the last couple seasons under Holmgren anyway, the amount of third and long draw plays can attest to that. Mora does dumb things like let a marginal center like Spencer snap with his off hand rather than let Unger move over. But it wasnt his fault Ruskell didnt address the offensive line, and the lack of a line is the source of most of the problems on the offense. Not having a true number one reciever doesnt help either.

    As far as not using Forsett, he makes plays, and seems to never stop moving and it looks good. But when Jones was out and the opposing team game planned for Forsett, they shut him down too. Jones isnt the answer, but Forsett cant be our main guy in my opinion.

    With so many personnel problems, its irresponsible to blame guys like Hasselbeck or Mora. You cant hand a broken team over to a coach and then get mad because the team that went 4-12 under Hall of Fame coach Mike Holmgren isnt performing.

  51. All of us here seem so pissed off about losing that every little point turns into an argument.

    SLT, I don’t think you’re wrong. Mora’s attitude and statements probably have cost him cred with his players. But I suggested that is overblown because I think the problems with our coaching staff are much bigger than that alone.

    As I enumerated above, our coaches have not demonstrated that they assessed their talent and developed schemes that could help these guys win. They haven’t demonstrated they can teach players to improve week by week. They haven’t proved they can coach on the field and make adjustments. To me, the past three games have brought these things clearly into the light.

    And, yes, along with all that ,Mora says dumb things when a microphone is put in front of his face. I just happen think that’s the least of our problems.

    If I could roll up all the points made by every commenter here, I think they would add up to a massive indictment of Mora that is at least partially true, and should be enough to send him packing.

  52. Dukeshire says:

    Got ‘cha. And I will agree with that. I thought is was poor form when it was Mare he called out and again with Spencer. Have you also noticed that he fails to call out the D, specifically the secondary? His old unit?

    When have I ever insulted you? I was one of the first here (that I know of) to suggest the team had quit on Mora. I would never endorse or encourage losing as a means to get a coach fired. So if that is something you put forward (I don’t remember that exactly) then I’m sure I did disagree. In any case, thanks for the clarification.

  53. I like the format – and the chance for posters to participate in this manner on the blog is fun.

    I’m done with Mora and his OC and DC – maybe this is just frustration after the showing of the past several games – but it has been embarrassing, and I think in order for patience/give-him-time to be justified, you need to see some seeds of improvement – and the second half of this season has been the opposite.

    And – I recognize this is a sort of unfair sentiment – but, there’s something about Mora that just makes me view him as, I don’t know, not a guy of substance. Holmgren, who personifies that quality, is a tough act to follow – but I don’t find myself liking/rooting much for Mora – and I do think it’s telling that not one of his players has raised his hand to say that Mora should be kept next year.

    New GM, two first-rounders, let’s start the re-build.

  54. seahawklovertoo says:

    OK, Duke . I admit about walking around with a chip on my shoulder. I have prided myself for not taking any $hit from no-one so far and always being the last one standing …. but, I also need to learn to be more tolerant of other people as well. Being on this blog with you there is like free therapy for me. I am really a nice guy. One more thing, I have done a lot in my life , been many places ( two filled-up passports can prove that ) so, it doesn’t take me long to figure things.
    When ordinary people question my calls kind of gets me upset (I don’t have the patience to wait for someone to understand something that I figured out three months ago….) I must learn the lesson in tolerance.
    Sorry to all about everything I wrote on this blog.

  55. Mr_Fish says:

    Broncos coach Josh McDaniels to all those Seahawks fans complaining about Mora’s public comments about players:

    “You call that throwing a guy under the bus? That’s nothing! Here, let me show you how to REALLY throw them under the bus…”

  56. elkhorn says:

    Yeah he is keeping his best WR out and a TE for disciplinary reasons when his team still has a chance at the playoffs?

  57. Mr_Fish says:

    McDaniels is doing exactly what Mora is accused of doing to Spencer: he’s publicly doubting the severity of Marshall’s injury and its impact on his ability to play.

    I say “accused” because I don’t think what Mora said actually meant what many people think it did. McDaniels, on the other hand, has left no room for doubt about his meaning.

  58. BobbyAyala says:

    Mora ain’t going anywhere, dude.

  59. seahawklovertoo – I don’t remember making fun of you, but if you said it, it must be true. Things like that stick with a person if you were on the wrong end of it. Hey, I’m as guilty as any of some run-on posts so if I was critical of that, please don’t take it too seriously. It’s like the pot calling the kettle black (joke).

  60. Dukeshire says:

    SL2 – No matter what our opinions are, we all want the same thing; A Super Bowl winning team. And trust me, I can be got too. Ask Bobby, he’s goaded me more than once, lol. They don’t call people like us fans (fanatics) for nothing. All good.

  61. earther says:

    Stevos:Mora’s attitude and statements probably have cost him cred with his players. But I suggested that is overblown because I think the problems with our coaching staff are much bigger than that alone.

    I agree but you have to admit that player alienation is a very common early sign of a coaching staff headed for the exit. That and the quarterback shuffle,… “O.K… maybe we should try this guy,…. oops that didn’t work,… o.k. let’s try this guy or go back to the first guy….”. Of course the shuffle isn’t likely to happen in Seattle because Wallace has had so many starts over the past couple of years already that it’s pretty clear that things don’t get better with him driving the offense.

    The chorus of boos from your own players has to be problematic though. Actually, I think it’s been pretty tame compared to some teams (Hasselbeck: “It’s my fault because I don’t understand the offense”. Yeah right, I’ll give you points for discretion but that’s still pretty blunt) however they still give one the impression of a crew of guys who would rather be playing somewhere else. That’s never good.

  62. earther says:

    seahawklovertoo:…. but, I also need to learn to be more tolerant of other people as well.

    If you feel the need to blow off steam you can call me names if you like. I don’t mind.

  63. Dukeshire says:

    My 2 cents regarding that: as problematic and troublesome as “losing” your team is (and I really believe Mora has) I too think there are larger issues at work. Simply put, I don’t see a team prepared to compete (this is from game, one when the Rams essentially handed them the victory) on Sundays. They seem to be out of synch, unable to execute even the simplest plays, outside of those scripted to start the game, with any regularity. A rash of holding and illegal procedure penalties that represent (to me) a thorough lack of discipline and attention to detail. An irrational refusal to put their best players on the field, but rather stick to the opening day depth chart regardless of circumstance and performance. All this COMBINED with a locker room that appears to no longer be willing to put in the effort for their coach, necessary to be competitive and this is what you’ve got. I agree with Stevo, that the cred he lost with his players is the collective result of all Mora’s missteps and public criticisms for his players. As poor of a leader he appears to be, he is even an even worse teacher and coach regarding Xs and Os, IMO.

  64. Dukeshire says:

    oops; *he is an even*…

  65. What was that about a tough road schedule? Well, seen enough black top in my day to stake a road closure sign. Spent the last 4 years, as a back seat driver traveling some very rough terrain behind this Crash Dummy, Tim Ruskell. If the goal was such as a demolition derby… he hoists the trophy.

    I can’t emphasize enough how disappointed I’ve become with this organization over the failure to insert Holmgren as the Seahawks commander-in-chief. Although I don’t hold Mora responsible for the lack of evident team talent it is his responsibility to perfect execution. Under Holmgren penalties were nearly nonexistent and emphasis to detail was explicit. In this department Mora and Co. fail miserably like a distant bleep on a navigational chart.

    The misuse of available resources is inexcusable. Primarily, blocking TE John Carlson. The teams leading receiver one year ago. Knapp’s excuse “Carlson is unable to get into his route”. No sh!t! He lines up next to the tackles. Hey, lets say you become creative and put him in motion. Maybe line him up as an H back. Holmgren didn’t seem to find it difficult to make good use of him. According to Knapp/Mora he needs to lower his shoulder or some such BS. As a coach it is their responsibility to see that he is taught that nonsense. Excuse me Knapp/Mora, should I use my super human telepathy powers to coach him up?

    Now I’m just plain irritated. I’ve given my 2 cents or used up my dime. :)

    Good Bye

  66. eyeland says:

    Unbelievable that a coach and his staff have systematically dismantled a franchise in one year. Here we are going into 2010 with a bunch of 2ND tier players. What happened for us to be so fortunate. We had a chance at Holmgren. But to no avail our front office must be just tired of winning. We have officially gone in another direction.

  67. seahawklovertoo says:

    Duke, sorry about disagreeing with You….Just look at the latest examples : the Titans. Kerry is much better QB than Young and they started 0-6 with him (b/c Fisher refused to make the switch on his own). Players like to play for Young , they support him and now, they are winning for him. The same thing happened when the Bulls let the Kings come back from 35 points down in the second half and win that game by four on home court. If that is not sandbagging your coach
    then I don’t know what it is. That is a clear message to the ownership that Vinnie Del Negro should go or, change his ways.
    Military troops have done the same . In WW1 Russian Army just quit fighting the
    Austrians b/c they had no respect for their tzar and the whole Romanof ruling family. In WW2 Yugoslav Army did the same to their king, etc. I can give you many more examples but I think You got my point.

  68. Oldbutslow says:

    Thanks for the guest articles. Nice to have a different point of view, occasionally.

    The team can keep or can Mora, and I can live with it. It is important to give the new GM the power to build his team. Let him do his job.

    To establish a zone blocking scheme, essentially a finesse approach, and then complain because they are not smash mouth was puzzling.

    When Ruskell was hired, they used a talent head hunter to find him. Is the team using a similar system again?

  69. SL2 – As a history teacher I appreciate the historical references. Nice.

    The only fault in the Tennessee analogy is that it was the opposite last year when Vince Young was the problem and once Kerry Collins took over they became a much better and compete team. The team actually played much better for Collins than they did for Young and it appeared he was the more trusted QB that players wanted to play for (as opposed to Young, when he wouldn’t go back in the game, and then had the cops searching for him afterwards on a rumor of him being unstable and potentially taking his own life).

    This year, as you said, it’s a much different story. Winnig cures many things though… as I mentioned with the Boldin stuff earlier. If we had a player do to Mora, what Boldin has done to Whiz, all the fans would be in more of an uproar than they already are about calling for someone’s head.

  70. nighthawk2 says:

    Blaming all of this mess on Ruskell doesn’t make sense. Yes, he put a crap team together and destroyed a Super Bowl team. Mora did nothing this season, however, to try to get the most out of what he had, and neither did his offensive coordinator Greg Knapp. I saw nothing, absolutely nothing, from either of those guys that makes me think they’d have looked great if they’d had the Minnnesota Vikings or the Philadelphia Eagles to work with. They looked lost and inept all season long. Good coaches change schemes to fit personnel and come up with halftime adjustments and in-game adjustments to situations on the field. Mora and Knapp doen’t. Is that Ruskell’s fault, or does it indicate they’re not good coaches? As late as last season most people were still on the Ruskell bandwagon when I’d been saying he sucked as a GM for years. Now he’s fired, and his hand picked guy is head coach and led this team to disaster. Does anyone think Mora fought Ruskell on any of his personnel decisions, saying “Hey Timmy, it’s really stupid to ignore the offensive tackle position and depend solely on a 35 year old guy coming back from microfracture surgery, let’s pick up a tackle somewhere in free agency or the draft!”? I don’t. Mora was brought in to be subservient, he was brought in because he would keep his mouth shut and would owe his job to Tim Ruskell. His patron is gone, and he should be too.

  71. As a coach, I don’t think you can expect people to be professionals just because they are, well, professionals.

    The stupid penalties of 2009 are one example. They don’t happen nearly as much to some coaches (Holmgren) as they do others (Mora). This is coaching and I fault our current staff 100% for the increase in dumb penalties we see on a week to week basis.

    Did these penalties happen under Holmgren? Yes. But not nearly to the degree they are happening now and it is troubling.

    I am not going to claim to be an expert football coach, but I am going to provide one example of “coaching something up” which Mora isn’t clearly doing with his team.

    The purpose of every game in any sport is to win (with integrity too, that’s why I like the Ruskell character stuff and will never compromise on that, to a certain degree).

    Going off for a moment, but will get back to the original point:

    In baseball, our kids would always get out of the way of a pitch thrown at them. It made no sense. If a ball is coming at you, you are guaranteed (100%) to get on base. But by getting out of the way, you aren’t guaranteed that and are hurting the team (as most great players, even at our level, get on base less than 50% of the time). So we came up with an idea for a “Warrior Award” for the person who was hit by the most pitches during the season. This was a bigger trophy and had more presige than something like best hitter or best pitcher (I don’t believe in an MVP, as it’s a team effort). The reason is because, as coaches, we emphasized it over and over and over again. If you emphasize something enough, players will respond. We emphasized getting on base in any way possible, the importance of taking extra bases on the basepaths, etc. You need to do the “little things” to win, but those “little things” must be coached up too. You can’t be like Mora and expect them to happen because of “accountability” and his rhetoric.

    This is my point – if we would have been internally mad when some kid jumped out of the way of a 75 mph fastball that would have hit them in the butt, then it would have happened over and over. If Mora’s approach isn’t working like saying we can’t keep doing this or that… then it’s his job as a coach to get the behavior to stop (stupid penalties) as that original manner isn’t working.

    And before you run to the conclusion that I would expect our young adults to get hit in the face, head area, or ankles (any bone on bone area) with a pitch, you are mistaken. I never expected a kid to take a pitch into an area where they could have gotten severely hurt. But a pitch to your butt or bicep, to me, isn’t a big deal. I’m a lanky guy who has taken his fair share of 85-90 mph fastballs to those areas and they don’t do the damage you think they would.

  72. seahawklovertoo says:

    BK, did I pass? I use history as a teaching tool how not to repeat the past mistakes and how it shapes nations cultures, national mentality and behavior. If one wants to be an (successful ) profiler, then history is the best teacher.
    I can’t wait to see if we get Heckert or DeCosta for our GM and see what they’ll do to get our team better.
    I still like BKs suggestion to go after FA OLmen ( O’Neil, Jahri Evans and/or Mankins ) plus a good #1 WR….even though the idea of having Okung or Bulaga and Iupati leaves me salivating.

  73. nighthawk – I agree with most of what you had to say, but I can say that in all honesty, I think Mora is a better coach than Brad Childress of Minnesota. I’m not claiming Mora is good, nor am I saying he shouldn’t be fired… I’m just saying Childress is that bad. Both are top 5 worst coaches in the NFL. The Vikings are winning in spite of him, not because of him. With that much available talent, I think Mora would be winning with the Vikings too.

  74. To get to the Super Bowl next year, this is what has to happen (on field talent) in no particular order:

    Defensive Lineman who can rush the passer and, therefore, make all players around him better. That’s what the great ones do.

    Safety.

    Playmaker. Whether it’s a RB or WR… we need someone who can put fear, for good reason, into opposing defensive coordinators.

    Offensive Line. And I’m not talking about one position on this unit. We’re talking multiple positions of major improvement that are needed.

    Other than that, we’re Super Bowl bound:) Too bad a DL like I mentioned don’t grow on trees.

  75. CYRREEN says:

    A coach should be good enough to develop player’s talent. If Mora had as many talented players as Minnesota handed to him on a silver platter, does Moron deserve the $5 million salary per year?

    The man is an idiot, and he needs to go.

  76. Dukeshire says:

    SL2 – I’m not sure you have disagreed with me. Because as I said; “as problematic and troublesome as “losing” your team is (and I really believe Mora has)…”, see that? I believe Mora has lost this team. What I’m saying, is that Mora’s failings as a coach and leader caused this team to stop playing for him. This team’s lack of heart and effort has not caused him to be a bad coach, just the opposite. In keeping with your WWI theme; the Russians had great early success, however, after 3 years of war (1917) their economy finally collapsed, nearly 3/4 of a million Russians were killed and the rise of the Bolsheviks and Lenin and his desire to end the war led to the military to “quit fighting because they had no respect for the tsar”. Lack of respect for the tsar (Mora) did not cause those things to happen, those things caused (more or less) their lack of desire to continue. In much the same way as Mora’s mismanagement has led this team to quit on him. (I too am a fan of history :) )

  77. seahawklovertoo – Ruskell was like the French building the Maginot Line. Whenever there was a problem, he would overkill to fix it (as the French did with their German “problem”), often without regard to other areas that were in need of routine maintenance or foolishly thinking that since they were good in an area in one year that that would automatically mean they couldn’t ever get bad at it (like never thinking the area to the North couldn’t be penetrated b/c of the forest/mtns, although times and technology was changing the rules of the game).

    Our WR situation last year was well documented, but Burleson was coming back (him getting hurt in week 1 last year was a great thing for him being ready for ’10), Branch was coming off a good end of the season in ’09 of making plays, and Housh had been a historically healthy player. That was a pretty good trio, on paper, heading into ’10. And some were optimistic about guys like Obo and Logan Payne too. I can totally understand why Ruskell wanted to get a young guy like Deon Butler, especially when you factor in the ages of Housh, Branch, and Burleson.

    However, Ruskell should have looked at the overall state of the team and realized that it wasn’t worth trading into the late 3rd round if it meant giving up the 1st pick in the 5th round, an early pick in the 7th round, and giving up our 3rd round pick in 2010 simply because we had a problem at the WR position in ’09. Now, if we were stacked and young at every position except WR (and nobody young was going to hit free agency), then I would have been all for that trade.

    Yes, revisionist history is easy, but when you wonder, at the time, if it’s a good idea… you can revisit the history. The Butler trade, at the time, didn’t seem smart, nor does it now. I like him and I think he’s going to be a decent player for us, but I bet the 5th and 7th could have worked out and the early 3rd rounder that we’re about to miss out on could have been used more wisely.

    At the same time, Deon Butler never asked the Seahawks to trade 3 picks for him so we shouldn’t hold this against him either. As fans, we need to support him going forward, and I will…

  78. snydro22 says:

    I just created a new blog. I even paid for a web address.

    I am looking for two or three people who are interested to be co-authors.

    The people I have in mind are Dukeshire and NightHawk2. I would also think BobbyK would be great. I think there is a place for almost everyone. Would Audible be interested in gathering up links to Hawks info?

    I’d like there to be kind of distinguished roles. NightHawk would be the voice of discontent. Dukeshire and BobbyK could provide analysis and a more positive spin. Of course, the draft will be a huge focus, and I know BobbyK could be worth his weight in gold when it comes to that. Personally, I will take sort of an editor’s role, mostly proofreading and putting finishing touches.

    There is no time demand, this is just something fun for the SeahawksInsider faithful. Our own place to get our thoughts out there. I am currently working on a logo design.

    BobbyAyala, despite our beefs, you are a great writer. Interested in contributing?

  79. CYRREEN – I agree.

  80. I is a gud wrider… can i halp yoo syndro?

  81. Mora should be allowed to stay or go depending on if he can get Deion Branch to shut his dumb mouth.

    Just kidding, he should definitely go either way.

  82. Hawkfan1951 says:

    First, I want to thank Eric for giving me the opportunity to post my view point!! THANK YOU!!

    I also want to thank everyone for their comments and compliments. At Eric’s suggestion, I was in the process of rewriting part of my section… but got a little too much ‘holiday cheer’ the last week (couldn’t drink then, and still can’t now… oh well) and didn’t get my changes in in time. Now, my head is mostly clear… and I’ll see what I can clear up.

    Duke wrote: “Of all the things I can point to that would articulate my reasons why, none of them are as baffling to me as the “change the culture” hyperbole. This is a team with a winning background. A perennial division winner and he wants to change that mindset. (I can only presume that is what he’s referring to.”

    Duke, I can see where I didn’t explain my “change of culture” statement as well as I should.

    First, let’s go back to the W/L record from ’05 to present.

    2005 – 13 W, 3L
    2006 – 9W, 7L
    2007 – 10W, 6L
    2008 – 4W, 12L
    2009 – 5W, 10L (with 1 game to go)

    Total: 39W vs. 38L’s. 50.648% winning over 5 years does not breed success!

    This is the TR Change of Culture I’m talking about. Mike Holmgren had his team culture prior to TR coming in the organization. TR squashed that culture and brought in his own. I always saw TR as a “By God, I’M the Boss and you damn well better know it” type of person. I believe he cut off people that didn’t think like him or had any disagreements, my best case in point is the Hutchinson fiasco. The 4.9 year culture shift TR brought has been the main reason for this team’s poor performance, especially over the last 2 years. Failure to replace quality players, failure to fix the “O” line, failure to get a effective “D” line…and on and on. THAT’S the culture that needs changing now.

    One point not to be forgotten, even with the decline of the 2007 and 2008 teams, the Seahawks play in the NFC West, and until the coaching changes at AZ and SF came over the last 2 years, the NFC West wasn’t that tough of competition for the Hawks.

    Stevos wrote:

    “HawkFan1951, I was intrigued by your title “Change takes time”, as I would agree that the total turnover in coaching staff and schemes we saw this year usually leads to more losses for a team, and cannot be expected to bear fruit right away.

    But in your post, you really don’t support that statement. Instead, you retread old arguments about Tim Ruskell putting “soft” players on the team. I think this is overblown. Holmgren’s WCO was often called a soft finesse team. That didn’t bother Holmgren a bit, he laughed it off and coached his team to execute and win.

    Our coaching problems go far beyond “attitude”. Our young coaching staff, after capturing the players’ attention with their high-energy training camp, have shown themselves to be:
    1) ineffective at game planning each week,
    2) ineffective adjusting their schemes to the talent they have on their roster, and
    3) ineffective making half-time adjustments during games.”

    Stevos, I agree with you. I hope the above comments help clear up what I wanted to say.

    I also agree with you that the WCO is based on timing. For Matt Hasselbeck’s entire career, he’s been coached that way. This year, I think it’s clear that not only has the timing not been there, but it hasn’t been stressed.

    The obvious reason is the “O” line isn’t giving him more than a couple of seconds to get the ball to another player without being rushed, hit or sacked. Matt doesn’t have a healthy Shaun Alexander type of RB to keep defenses from focusing on him. (Yes, Forsett has shown excellent capabilities, but I think one of the Team dynamics has been “Play the money” and not necessarily “play the most effective player, regardless of salary.”)

    I especially agree with your points, 2 and 3. I do think Knapp especially is fixated on his vision of the offense, that he’s not making necessary or good adjustments as they are needed. I remember the game against (I think) the Cards here. Mora made the decision to change from “Let’s run first” to “Let’s throw the ball first.” For THAT game, that was a needed change. And (I think) in the Houston game, telling Knapp to go for it on 4th down. THAT’S making HIS changes for this team.

    Someone said that Knapp should be fired within 72 hours of tomorrow’s game. Personally, I wouldn’t wait THAT long! I don’t see Knapp making changes away from his vision. I’d rather see Knapp go after 1 year, than Mora.

    Last point.

    Mike Holmgren had basically 5 years with the Hawks to change the team around and be winners.

    TR had 4.9 years in which he brought in HIS players and HIS coaches. I don’t think that combination of players/coaches worked for the new “Team System” that was started this year. I don’t think all the current players fit this system. Coaches coach the players they have… it takes the players AND coaches to be “on the same page” every day.

    Does that mean this isn’t a good system? No. I don’t think it’s had a fair chance.

    I also don’t think Coach Mora has had a chance to:

    1) make his team the way he wants. He’s had to deal with the 9 players from MH and the rest from TR. Mora hasn’t had a chance to put “his stamp” on this team.

    2) Mora’s had to deal with TR’s requirements/rules. Again, I believe his statement about wanting to get some dirt-bags was a direct rejection of TR’s practice of drafting/acquiring players of character. (I had the privilege of meeting Reggie McKenzie and Kenny Easley in ‘85. Both men were very polite, and Mr. Easley even seemed a bit shy in the setting I met him. And even tho I was an ARMY Paratrooper with combat experience… I’d crap my britches if I had to face either of them on a football field!!! Those were men of character that were HUGE Badass’s on the football field!)

    I think Jim Mora deserves 1 more year, with his players and his system to see if he can be a winner.

    Do I think Jim Mora has been the perfect coach this year? No. I wouldn’t throw ANY player ‘under the bus’ for any reason. Especially not at this level. “Praise in public, criticize in PRIVATE” would have been better. I hope he learns from these mistakes.

    I am now going to re-re-re-learn from MY mistake and go take some aspirin…… Ugh!!!

    Thanks!!

    Go Hawks!!!

  83. snydro22 says:

    http://www.hawksnest12.com/

    The only real need for this blog is that it will be completely uncensored. Let’s face it, most of us are old enough to read the occasional dirty word. And if you’re under 18, but your parents have given you the keys to the internet, a Hawks blog is the last thing on the web that will twist your little brain..

  84. snydro22 says:

    A few things about this blog that I won’t budge on -

    1. Zero Ads – I hate them.

    2. Everyone is welcome. No editing comments or deleting them, unless it’s something completely offensive like racial slurs.

    3. I created the format, but it will be a completely contributor based site, and no one has the final say on anything. It has to be a democracy.

    If it takes off, it takes off. If not, then it was worth a shot.

    I listed some people above that I would love to get involved, but anyone on here is welcome to jump on board now if they want to help get it started.

  85. Southendzone says:

    Good articles by both and enjoy the point – counterpoint format.

    I’ve got about 19 toes in the dump Mora camp and my left pinky toe in the ‘give him another shot’ camp. Since this has been hashed over a lot I’ll focus just one part of the reason I’m unhappy with Mora’s HC performance this year.

    His handling of media / press conferences! Over and over again he seemed to be bumbling his way through the press conferences and making stupid statements that to me would be detrimental to the overall morale of the team. Started with the Mare thing, evolved into the famous Dirtbag speech and along the way one that really rubbed me the wrong way was the “Hey we were 4-12 last year”, implying that this stinking heap of team had somehow improved under his leadership.

    None of this seems like it would help foster unity within the team, with the performance and w/l record spiraling downwards he has to do a better job than this with his public statements to help keep this team together in spirit & attitude.

  86. Dukeshire says:

    Good morning, everyone. Well, here it is, the last game. I remember last year feeling this way at the end of last season; can’t wait for it to be over, next year wi be better. Um… Seahawks; do no t allow Johnson to become the all time single season rushing leader. DON’T DO IT! Also, preventing him from getting 2000 yards will be a nice bonus as well. Good luck, men.

  87. seahawklovertoo says:

    Duke, You got Your “historical facts” from the ’50s/’60s US gov’ B.S. propaganda on communism (I’ve red those as well). Russia’ economy was a total disaster before the WW1 begun, and V. I. Lenin had nothing to do with any outcome of the war. I do read well in Russian and I got my facts from there (one advantage of school education in Ol’ Europe ). It is one thing to read about history, quite another to get your sources/facts right and learn from the things you’ve red. ( As one of my professors used to say : “try not to be bigger Catholic than the Pope”).
    I don’t need to click on some web link to read things so, I can declare I know history too. I did know history even before I knew of computers, plus being multi-lingual helps as well. I can teach history anywhere right now (without a degree in history) but, American authorities would not like what I (and the World ) know. History people learn in class rooms here is not what really happened in the past ( even in the American past) . If you don’t believe me, buy and read : ” A People’s History of US of America” by Dr. Howard Zinn.

  88. seahawklovertoo says:

    Duke, I honestly think you should stick with your football only.

  89. Dukeshire says:

    SL2 – Good lord. First of all, this is a football blog not a place to delve into political matters, in depth. So what I did was continue your analogy with a very broad brush. Nothing I said has any foundation in propaganda. So lets pick apart you a couple of your criticisms; 1 – I said when their “economy finally collapsed”. FINALLY. That implies it was in some trouble or on unsound footing prior to the war. 2 – If your suggesting that the Bolsheviks taking power and overthrowing the tsar “had nothing to do with any outcome of the war.” you are sadly misinformed.

    If you want to debate the finer points of WWI or other political matters, please email Eric and I’m sure he’d be happy to pass along my email address and we can continue this discussion in greater detail. Although you continue to allude to a worldly backround, my instincts tell me you education is informal at best. That may give you a sense of street smarts and that’s fine but I too have been around and have not found my “formal” education to be limiting. You “honestly suggest I stick to football only”? I suggest you support your criticisms with fact and not hyperbole.

  90. Dukeshire says:

    I really wish there was a edit function after your posts go up. – *So let’s pick apart…*, If *you’re* suggesting…, tell me *your* education…

  91. Cornutt says:

    Yeah, an edit option wood be good. :)

    Go Hawks……?

  92. Cornutt says:

    Ps– what’s up with all the historical diatribes? Flaunting obscure historical references on a football blog says nothing about your intelligence. In fact, it seems more like a lack of self esteem thing…

  93. Dukeshire says:

    Cornutt – You’d have to go back to SL2′s reference about the team quitting on Mora. He referenced the Russian army in WWI as an example and I continued the analogy, to his chagrin. In any case, somehow we ended up here… ugh, sorry.

  94. earther says:

    Cornutt:Ps– what’s up with all the historical diatribes? Flaunting obscure historical references on a football blog says nothing about your intelligence. In fact, it seems more like a lack of self esteem thing.

    Rats!!! Does that mean I’m way out of line if I say the Seattle offensive game plans remind me a lot of King George III’s night terrors?

  95. Double LOL!

  96. HawkSoop says:

    Just posting to say good job 1951 and nighthawk!

    This is a great format and fun to read, keep it up!

  97. Cornutt says:

    Lol, good stuff ya’ll. No apologies needed Duke, I read all the posts and saw how it started.

    Really, I just needed something to b!tch about.

    Cheers!

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