Seahawks Insider

Packers 48, Seahawks 10 — Postgame reader reaction thread.

Post by Ryan Divish on Dec. 27, 2009 at 1:10 pm with 115 Comments »
December 27, 2009 1:12 pm
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Wow, just, wow.

Did I think the Seahawks would win? No.

Did I think they would lose this bad? No, not really.

Yes, the Packers are better. But this was ridiculous.

Where do I begin?

Matt with four picks, the Hawks give up 48 points, three to some guy named Brandon Jackson.

Just when you thought last week was worse, you have this week. It was like Lord of the Flies on the game chat. There are some unhappy fans. Talk of more paper bags and booing for next week’s home game.

So go ahead and rant about this team.

And answer me this question: “Can the Seahawks really bring Jim Mora back next season?”

Categories:
General Seahawks
Leave a comment Comments → 115
  1. I am numb, just numb.

    Mora has lost this team. Fire Jim Mora.

  2. I never thought Brandon Jackson was all that good when he played at Nebraska (even though he ended up a 2nd round pick).

  3. For the first time in my 27 years as a Seahawks fan, I am plain old embarrassed to be a fan of this team.

    At least in 1992 they played hard and lost close at the end of the year.

  4. princeaden says:

    Mora and co. have most certianly “changed the culture” of this football team. No, Mora and co. CANNOT be retained. Can there be a worse team in the NFL is the real question. I would say absolutely not.

  5. I don’t know how Mora can be brought back. No clue. Is there anyone out there who thinks he should be brought back?

    The little penalties are simply sickening. The greats don’t have players do that on the regular basis that Mora’s team has them happening to. I know the players are accountable but it’s the coaches job to coach certain things up too. Why is it that Holmgren didn’t have them happen on as regular of a basis that they’re happening under Mora? Coaching!

    It’s a commical or tragic joke — depending on the spin you want to put on it. Nevertheless, we are a joke right now.

  6. pabuwal – I reached that level of embarassment after the game last week. Either way, it sucks to be us.

  7. princeaden says:

    I’ve never said this before, but Matt must go in the complete tear down that must happen.

  8. Dukeshire says:

    I have never thought that Leiweke would have any restrictions on who the new GM would be able to hire or fire. Regardless, there is no way Mora comes back next year. It simply cannot happen under any conditions. There is not a single reasonable argument that an be made in his favor. This team’s play is a shameful display of undisciplined, disinterested ineptitude.

  9. It is embarrassing – and this team is in total disarray on every level. I’m still a little stunned it has gotten this bad, this fast. Even earlier this season we were competitive – now, we are sub-NFL in every facet of the game (except punting and FG kicking – no need to lump those guys in, I suppose).

    What in the world has Mora done to merit another year? He’s clearly lost this team – and we are finishing on the worst run of games I can remember in my years as a fan. Get this p.o.s. season over already . . .

  10. Duke – stop. You’re giving Mora too much credit.

  11. “I’ve never said this before, but Matt must go in the complete tear down that must happen”

    I’m closer to that than I’ve ever been too . . .another terrible performance today.

  12. Dukeshire says:

    Perhaps. His preparations appear to be far worse than that.

  13. fire all the coaches

  14. williambryan says:

    even eric manginis team is winning now…ERIC MANGINI? I can’t wait to hear moras press conference. “i dont know… i liked our effort, but if i had the answers i would have done them by now. its not an easy thing…”

    A good coach has answers, they can put there finger on the problems. and they dont let this happen week after week. My wife and i were talking after the first packers TD about what the final score would be. I said 38-14 for the packers, and at the time i thought to myself ‘they cant lose that bad can they?’… I was wrong. If somehow the hawks can play against the titans and keep it close at least (maybe even win, if young gets injured or something) then you will hear the calls to keep Mora. But IMO the hawks need to rid themselves of any ties to Ruskell. Mora, his whole staff, and Webster too. Start fresh.

  15. yellaman says:

    Only way Mora can come back is if he makes changes to his coaching staff. DC & OC need to go and the new GM gets to help hire these positions. Mora will have to accept some changes to his coachiung staff and if he doesn’t then let him go. Also he can no longer call out players in public. this is bad for the team even if we all agree with his words

  16. I just can’t believe how much the team has regressed since the optimism of pre-season. This coaching staff has turned even the good players in to poor players such as: Carslon great 1st year but gone backwards, Trufant got worse, Hass dropped off worse than anyone, Curry poor coaching means he has failed to fulfill his potential, etc, etc.

  17. Only problem with thinking Hass needs to go – is that we have so many other holes on this team . ..

    I still have this hope/belief that the offensive scheme, the receivers, the o-line, are big parts of his downturn – but 4 picks is 4 picks. Can’t win like that.

    Here are my keepers in an ideal world for 2010:

    Hass
    Forsett
    Housh
    Burleson
    Carlson
    Unger

    Mebane
    Lofa
    Curry
    Hawthorne
    Wilson
    Grant (overpaid, but decent imo)
    Trufant (assuming he is not this imposter we’ve seen this year)

    Ryan
    Mare

  18. williambryan says:

    Ryan, I think the worst reflection on Mora and his team right now is who is better off? The hawks under Mora or the Bucs under Morris? The fact that this is even a question tells us all we need to know. The bucs fans have it pretty good right now and as another poster commented, you can’t really argue that the hawks aren’t the worst team right now.

  19. yellaman says:

    How did Mora get this job without interviewing other candidates? Ruskell has set this franchise back at least 5 yrs. The coaches staff needs to be let go. Mora can stay but he should lose his power of who is on his coaching staff

  20. I have a legit question that doesn’t concern Mora.

    Our roster for the final game of the season:

    Why can’t we IR guys like Obo, Burleson, possibly Wilson, etc. And then, it would be smart to release guys with no future here… that is, guys who we don’t think will be part of this rebuilding effort like Milloy or Terrill.

    Then we take whoever our scouts deem as the best players on other teams’ practice squads and sign them to our active roster. Thus, they become our possession heading into next season and training camp.

    I know there’s not a bunch of Pro Bowlers who are on practice squads, but those type of guys are exacly what we need to bring into this rebuilding phase. They all have to be relatively young. They are obviously minimum salary type of players. And if they are on a practice squad in the first place, many teams must see something in them as far as an NFL future is concerned.

    And there is a track record of there being plenty of good players in the NFL who spent some time on a practice squad before they developed.

    I know it may not be a popular decision but it is in the best interest in the long term plan of the Seattle Seahawks. It’s not like a guy like Terrill won’t get his pay check for week 17. He’s still going to get it even if he’s “unemployed.” He gets paid, even though he may be at home watching the game in front of the tv.

    The easy thing to do if you’re Webster is to play the year out because what’s in the best long term interests of the organization is something that would take a lot of guts and courage to do (as I outlined in the above scenario).

    How many of you can honestly say that you would rather have some older player with no future here on our active roster heading into next season… or some current 23 year old practice squad guy from some other team who could develop into a helpful NFL player? I think the choice is obvious.

  21. I do not know if there is a stat, but our avg loss differential must be close to 18 points. We must be leading the league..by a lot. The lopsided losses are not player issues, they are coaching issues. Teams that lose, but hang tough, do so because good coaching gets below average players in the positions to make plays. We, on paper I thought, had good players, who are completely lost. How can a new GM come in and seriously consider this job if they are not given the power to tear it down their way…a condition that Mora stays is deal breaker in my opinion for any decent, quality GM to come in here.

  22. freedom_X says:

    I’m leaning towards Mora being cut loose because the team is getting worse, not better. If the team had a bad start but finished strong, you could say the team is finally getting used to the “system” and coming together.

    But the team is getting worse and worse instead. With a trend like that, there’s no reason to believe the team will better next year with the same coaching. If you’re going to fire a guy after one year, fire the guy that is showing that his team isn’t getting any better, and in fact is getting worse.

    Not sure what’s going on with Hasselbeck now. He played much better when he had no protection. (at least wasn’t killing the team with mistakes.) I thought he did all he could given what he had back then. But now that he has a bit more time, it seems like he’s trying to do too much, or he’s just not in sync.

    This was a game where Teel should have been thrown in. Not a case of your leader fighting to the end – in this case, much of the beating was your leader’s fault, and leaving him in could only dampen the spirits of those who still had to play (i.e. accountability.)

  23. Now I understand why Holmgren keeps such a tight rope on his quarterbacks. Just look at how bad Hasselbeck plays when he’s not in constant contact with the coach. He just plain sucks. He looks just like he did when we were all chanting “Dilfer” a decade ago.

  24. freedom_X says:

    1st, healthy players on IR would be a finable offense by the NFL, maybe even draft picks if it was part of a big master plan.

    2nd, the guys on IR might have performance incentives, so if you basically take them out for the season they might get pretty upset.

    I actually believe Cincinnati, of all teams, may have a great practice squad approach. Instead of filling it with random talent, they identify a set of, say offensive linemen, and strive to keep them practicing together as a unit as long as possible. This makes for a true practice squad – not just fodder for the full-time roster to practice against, but a chance for them to work as a team and truly learn.

    Injuries caused a lot of shuffling on the Seattle practice squad, but a lot of the moves (such as the running back juggling) made no sense, and made me think they really didn’t know who or what they wanted on that sqaud in the 1st place.

  25. The reason Hass is getting worse as the weeks go by is because each weak is that much more time that Hass has been without Holmgren and Zorn.

  26. I am a huge Matt supporter, but I need to rethink my thoughts of him and the QB position heading into next year. Every position needs to be properly critiqued and many, many changes must be made. Matt has been flat out terrible for two weeks in a row now. I’m not jumping off of his bandwagon yet. I still firmly believe in him for a few more years and believe that he’d be a hell of a lot better if there were more talent in front of him, and a legit deep threat, but there comes a time when you need to assess everyone in an honest manner and not let personal feelings get in the way of what he used to be.

  27. princeaden says:

    BobbyK- That is an excellent idea. I would much rather we start the the rebuilding now with a roster loaded with young guys, as many as possible.

  28. I do not believe that all our players suck. I think this team can be rebuilt quickly in 1 or 2 years. The Seahawks may have few impact players left. but they have a number of good players. Average NFL players who are well-coached can win games. Just look at Denver, or Tampa Bay lately.

    The common denominator for our players is not that they all suck. It is that all our players are unmotivated, undisciplined, and poorly coached.

  29. freedom_X — I didn’t mean putting guys on IR who aren’t hurt. Burleson has a high ankle sprain and it normally takes a lot longer to come back than what he has (from the time he got hurt, to week 17). The way Wilson looked… it doesn’t look like he’ll be able to play next week, which means he’s a legit candidate for IR. And some of the dead weight guys like Milloy, who has been a great professional, simply is done. He serves no value heading into ’10, whereas a PS guy could come in and compete as a hungry 22-24 year old.

  30. Look at the arc or Hasselbeck’s career. In his early years he was erratic, his arm was questionable, he made bad decisions. Then, behind a solid O line and running game and good coaching, he learned to use his skills very effectively in Holmgren’s system.

    Now, without the line, running game, and coaching, he looks like he did as a young erratic QB, except that now his arm strength is gone.

    I hate to say it, but Matt is in the twilight of his career. He should be a Seahawk next year because there is no one yet to replace him, but he needs to be pushed to the bench by a younger player asap.

  31. BobbyK, A hungry 22-24 year old will taper out during the offseason IMO. Flashes of greatness now could and likely would fade away.

    And who else is hoping that we get hammered by Tennessee next week, and Mora gets promptly shown the door by Paul Allen.

  32. and Stevos, I can’t disagree with you more.

    I still have faith in hasselbeck. He’s one of the only players I have faith left in honestly. He needs to get into a rhythm, and he’s unable to do that behind such a shaky o-line and lack of a running game.

  33. RADEoN – Players normally are rejuvinated in the off-season and their focus (whether with the Seahawks or anyone else) is to work hard and make the team (especially players without long term contracts and fighting to make the roster). Every player in the NFL has a goal to be in tip top shape heading into training camp. Well, maybe not the kicker for the Raiders. His idea is jelly rolls or something like that. Plack looked that way too.

  34. Also, Forsett nearly doubles Jones on the same amount of carries, yet Jim Moron doesn’t leave him in to play. Eat glass mora.

  35. RADEoN – Agreed with your Hass take. But I will admit I don’t have as much faith in him as I did a month or two ago. At the same time, after all the abuse he’s taken on a monthly basis… could anyone really not be flustered by week 16 after the ass kicking he’s been handed this past season?

  36. Mora, in his post-game press conference, just told me all I need to know: “Matt is healthy. As healthy as can be expected at this time of the year.”

    8 interceptions in two weeks. Not all his fault, but former Pro Bowlers don’t do that until they are in their final years and declining, arm strength gone. That’s where Matt is in his career.

    I’m sure Matt can still come back and win a few games next year. Because he’s a warrior. But to depend on him for another 2 or 3 years?? You might as well depend on Big Walt to come back.

  37. I don’t think Manning standing on Brady’s shoulders could do well after what he’s been through.

  38. Maybe Matt’s just trying to get some protection next year by playing horrible we loose, the more we loose the better the draft picks we get.
    As for the rest of the game pure undiscipline..which shows a poor coaching staff. Heads need to roll
    Any one want my tickets to next weeks game, dont feel like the drive to seattle and all of the other costs associated

  39. “RADEoN – Agreed with your Hass take. But I will admit I don’t have as much faith in him as I did a month or two ago. At the same time, after all the abuse he’s taken on a monthly basis… could anyone really not be flustered by week 16 after the ass kicking he’s been handed this past season.”

    That’s where I am too – faith is cracking a little bit. I do think the offensive scheme and terrible o-line play are contributing – and I think his receivers are not getting separation or making plays on the ball – but a guy w/his experience can’t throw picks like that first one today. Not ready to throw in the towel – but closer than I’ve been since he became the starter.

  40. Dukeshire says:

    It’s nor accident that both Matt and Seneca has regressed significantly wothout Holmgren, IMO. However, it’s apparent that the injuries Matt has sustained over the past 2 seasons alone have taken a major toll (not to mention all the hits over the 9 years before that). I don’t see how they can’t address his replacement in this years draft, unless of course they think Teel can be that guy. And with due respect to Eric and Ryan, Teel needs to see some snaps in net weeks game, at worst in the 4th quarter (should that game be also resemble each of the previous 3).

  41. FireRuskellNow says:

    FIRE EVERYBODY INCLUDING THAT IDIOT LEIWEKE WHO THINKS WE NEED TO HAVE THE NEXT GM JOIN US!!! EVERYTHING RELATED TO THIS FRANCHISE IS PATHETIC!!!

    THATS WHAT YOU BUFFOONS GET FOR LETTING HOLMGREN GO

  42. “It’s nor accident that both Matt and Seneca has regressed significantly wothout Holmgren, IMO”

    Zorn too . . .

  43. FireRuskellNow says:

    THIS DEFENSE IS COMPLETE CRAP BY THE WAY WORST IN THE LEAGUE, YOU GO RIGHT TO HELL TIM RUSKELL FOR TEARING APART OUR ELITE PASSING OFFENSE AND GIVING US THIS TURD

  44. williambryan says:

    Even the TV guys have been giving it to mora in the nicest way they can. Every time Forsett would run the ball during a Lynch and Pitts telecrew, John Lynch would ask aloud ‘I dont know why Jim Mora doesn’t go to him more?’ This week Brian Billick confirmed what has been said on this blog…”Mora comes out and says ‘we’re changing the culture’…But the culture here has been winning, these guys are used to winning, so…” That was about what Billick said today.

  45. Dukeshire says:

    Williamb – I remember that comment. As ridiculous as Billick is, he had a damn good point. One that we’ve been wondering about for months.

  46. mkelly534 says:

    Ruskell’s entire posse must be shown the door. This team has gone backwards two years in a row with no end in sight. Even if we pick a great GM/Coach combo, it looks like at least two years and two drafts to get back to competitive. If we keep on the same path, we will be the Rams or the Lions. Our team will be in chaos if we do not act now and act with authority to stop this bleeding.

  47. mkelly534 says:

    I also believe Mora should be a college coach where his enthusiasm and emotion can work for him ala Pete Carroll (also a piss poor NFL coach.)\

  48. I can’t stand Billick but he was right on with that comment. And, they kept saying Matt said before the game/during the week that he just isn’t quite in sync in this system?!? One game left, and the guy who was able to get and excel in a complex, Holmgren-designed system is still baffled by Mora/Knapp’s?

  49. fivecardstud says:

    You can’t blame Mora. I’m not a big Mora fan but from the looks on his face during the game he was as stunned as everybody else. Lets face it, it starts at Qb. Hasselbeck has to be in a rythem to be productive but you can’t always have a rythem going. We need a QB that can play in all situations, and not our backup QB, WE need a new good one. Next we need an oline. No matter how good the QB is if the oline can’t protect him he can’t do anything. Then we need to get rid of jones, why they play that guy I’ll never know. He always, always looks for the biggest mob on the field ant runs right into them and either looses yrds or no gain. Thank God we have Forsett and our defense are so tough guys. They play 95% of the game. The offense gets up 3plays . and back to the bench. Then the punting team 1 play and the defense 12, 13 plays later finally get a 2 minute break while Hasselbeck and company get up for 3 quick plays. Except for Hasselbeck, I agree with pdway and his keepers for next yr:
    Forsett
    Housh
    Burleson
    Carlson
    Unger
    Mebane
    Lofa
    Curry
    Hawthorne
    Wilson
    Grant
    Trufant
    Ryan
    Mare

  50. Dukeshire says:

    ” If we keep on the same path, we will be the Rams or the Lions.” The Seahawks are worse than both those teams. Both of them, the Lions in particular, have reached the bottom, purged their rosters, employed new coaches and / or GMs and have begun the journey to respectability and competitiveness. The ‘Hawks have not yet begun that process. They are passing each other headed in opposite directions. Seahawks fans are in no position to look down on any team in the league, at this point.

  51. I agree with you Mkelly,

    But it will still take a new GM and a new Head Coach AND and couple of years to rebuild. Even with Holmgren as President that would have been the same.

    What needs to be done FIRST is that Mora must be taken out of the equation, not given more time to dither with this team. That would only keep us stuck where we are now.

  52. HawkSoop says:

    Maybe someone can convince Mora to run for governor of alaska… I hear they have an opening.

  53. devisscher says:

    I feel pretty good, I won 455 euro (about 655 dollar) betting on the Packers.

    Mora is a joke. He’ll probably find something or someone to blame this week’s loss on. And he already has one more win than last year. He could say Holmgren made a mess of this team and he must clean up. He’ll probably forget that this team was one of the least flagged teams in the NFL until this year. How many penalties did we have today?

    All I want for christmas is a new FO and coaching staff.

  54. fivecardstud says:

    I’ll bet they already decided to keep Mora and thats probably why Holgren took the Browns job instead of returning to the Seahawks. If they keep Mora and company I’ll become a Dever Donkey fan, and I hate the donkeys. Oh sorry they still call them Broncos don’t they. Probably start calling the Seahawks the Seattle Donkies.

  55. BobbyAyala says:

    For the first time in a really, really long time, I didn’t even watch the game.

    There are now three things in life you can count on: Death, taxes and a humiliating Seahawks loss.

    Once again, for all of you who think Mora is gone, he’s not, plain and simple.

    Tod Leiweke will not, under any circumstances, allow him to be fired after one season.

    Someone said earlier that Ruskell set this franchise back five years.

    I would say for the Hawks to get back to the level they were at before Ruskell was hired is going to be much, much longer than just five years.

  56. BobbyAyala says:

    This is what happens when a group of suits make football decisions.

    They don’t know what it takes to win.

    They rode Holmgren’s coat tails then thought they could it themselves.

    The Seattle Seahawks aren’t worthy of the 12th Man.

  57. jandyhenson says:

    I’m sitting here watching the Broncos fall apart against the Eagles. The only positive I can take away from today is that the Seahawks will have two fairly high draft picks.

  58. Dukeshire says:

    “This is what happens when a group of suits make football decisions.” As a matter of clarification; what suits made what decisions?

  59. BobbyAyala says:

    Vulcan decided Mike Holmgren couldn’t GM.

  60. BobbyAyala says:

    Andy Reid is Holmgren’s protege, and he seems to handle the dual roles just fine.

    Vulcan has a long, sordid history of imposing their will on the team itself.

  61. BobbyAyala says:

    “We’re not going to join them, they’re going to join us.”

    Yeah, good luck with that, Tod.

  62. I was ready for another horrible road performance today… and it ended up even worse than I thought it’d be (and my expectations were extremely low). And the margin of defeat keeps getting worse. I know the Packers are good, but they hammered on us worse than the Vikings did too, at least as far as the scoreboard is concerned. I look forward to the Seahawks each Sunday so much… but now I just want next Sunday to be over with…

  63. BobbyAyala says:

    “Matt is our quarterback and we’re going to keep him in there and try to have successful snaps, even when we’re not having a successful game,” Mora said. “We’re trying to plant that seed that we’re going to fight until the very end.”

    LOL!!!

    Keep planting those seeds Jimmy Boy.

    Anyone else think Mora should be working for a motivational poster company making the “Hang in there Baby” prints with the cats dangling from household objects?

    Dude, the guy is just in way over his head.

    It’s so embarrassing.

  64. jandyhenson says:

    I’ve always hated when teams dump a head coach after only one season. For better or worse the Seahawks decline started last season while Holmgren was still here. With the lack of talent on our O line (losing Walt was huge) and secondary no coach woud have succeeded this year. With that said we still have a good qb, an improving young defensive front 7 and a RB (Forsett) that is an emerging star. With a good draft and a couple solid free agent acquisitions on the O line we can turn this around fairly quickly. Just hope that the Hawks make the right decision with the GM.

  65. Dukeshire says:

    Not only do the Eagles have a CEO, Jeffrey Lurie, but a GM, Tom Heckert, as well. While Andy Reid has final say on all personnel decisions as VP of Football Operations, he works in concert with Heckert. They work together, Reid is not on his own.

    Again, I’m curious what football decisions have “suits” made here?

  66. Dukeshire says:

    I guess we could make Allen the CEO, that should make people happy. All of those except the ones who want Allen gone as well, that is.

  67. BobbyAyala says:

    I just gave you one, Duke.

    Continue to support the corporate leadership, they clearly have the ship righted and steaming toward winning waters.

  68. BobbyAyala says:

    No, I want Allen to realize that his people need to stay out of the business of trying to win football games and hand that responsibility off to people that are rooted in the game.

    I want Allen to tell Tod Leiweke that personal friendships aren’t the most important thing.

  69. Dukeshire says:

    BobbyAyala – There is no evidence that Leiweke allows personal friendships to dictate his decisions. He does allow football people to make football decisions. And when the fail in that capacity, he lets them go. Whitsett and Ruskell are two and there is no reason to believe he is demanding that whoever is brought aboard must retain Mora. His presser you may point to? Many, many coaches have been canned at the end of the season after receiving a vote of support form the front office.

  70. jandyhenson says:

    Another Eagles touchdown! Pathetic Broncos…. How’s Alphonso Smith working out for ya???

  71. I love PA.

    Leiweke makes business decisions, and I’m fine with that.

    Ruskell is the guy who made the football decisions. Leiweke didn’t tell him who to sign or who to draft. He doesn’t tell Mora who to play. Paul Allen doesn’t tell anyone who to put on the practice squad.

    Once it was determined that Ruskell didn’t deserve an extention, Leiweke made the appropriate decision (with obvious assurances from PA). As we are seeing, Ruskell wasn’t the answer. But he was good that first year with the pieces he assembled to a team already here. On one hand, Leiweke made a good hire (’05 Super Bowl run), on the other they made a bad hire (with the crap we’re putting up with now). It’s safe to say we need a GM who is going to right this ship. But the thing I’m thankful for is that whoever we bring in, our suits aren’t going to tell the football people what to do. Any GM candidate would love, you would think, the situation he’d have in Seattle (full control and a rich owner).

  72. It’s a longshot, but it would be huge if the Broncos could find a way to lose next week against the Chiefs. That single loss could mean almost 10 spots (from this moment) higher in the draft for us the way things seem to be falling.

  73. BobbyAyala says:

    “There is no evidence that Leiweke allows personal friendships to dictate his decisions.”

    I suppose the fact that this team hired Mora without an interview process was all the evidence I need to refute this statement.

    Since when does organizational influence in decision making work from the ground up?

  74. BobbyAyala says:

    “Leiweke didn’t tell him who to sign or who to draft. ”

    I’m sure that no one above Ruskell had any input whatsoever in the hiring of Jim Mora Jr. without an interview process.

  75. BobbyAyala says:

    This entire coaching staff was put together on a wink-and-nod basis.

    The Hawks hire friends to the detriment of the football product.

    Look at Whitsitt. No prior NFL experience, but he’s hired here because of his relationship with PA in Portland.

  76. jandyhenson says:

    The Mora hire was not that bad of a decision. He’s a local guy, had some success in Atlanta and had a year under Holmgren. Yeah I would like to have seen Shanahan or Gruden here, but, how much more would they have done considering the personnel?

  77. jandyhenson says:

    Don’t forget Whitsitt hired Holmgren. He was also fired by PA.

  78. BobbyAyala says:

    You guys make good points, and perhaps I’m wrong.

    But one thing is clear, the only two people to put W’s on the board in the history of this franchise are Mike Holmgren and Chuck Knox, and those two men were born with footballs in their hands.

    I don’t understand how bad it has to get around here before fans start to realize there are fundamental organizational failures.

  79. Dukeshire says:

    BobbyAyala – Football people (Ruskell) made the decision to replace Holmgren with Mora after Holmgren retired, not Leiweke. And now Ruskell is gone. Whitsett too was fired by Leiweke. It seems to me he brings in football people and allows them to do their job without interference. Do you have anything of substance to base your implications on?

  80. jandyhenson says:

    I agree with you regarding organizational failures, but, I think we have gone a long way toward fixing that by alowing Ruskell to leave. The Seahawks have made horrible personnel decisions over the last few years (Branch, Shaun, Hutch). The only way to fix it is to get a quality GM.

    BTW Broncos are making a comeback. Wouldn’t a Bronco win just cap off the misery today.

  81. Dukeshire says:

    Look, we’re all frustrated and upset about the state of our beloved Seahawks but I have faith that whoever is brought aboard will be expected to bring them back to contention, given all the “tools” necessary and allowed to his job without interference.

  82. BobbyAyala says:

    “Do you have anything of substance to base your implications on? ”

    Just logic.

    Someone has to be held accountable.

  83. BobbyAyala says:

    “but I have faith that whoever is brought aboard will be expected to bring them back to contention, ”

    Ruskell was expected to maintain contention.

    I’m not saying the organization doesn’t want to win, I’m saying they don’t make very wise decisions toward that end.

  84. jandyhenson says:

    Duke- I agree with your comments. Another way to look at this, The NFC West is horrible. Kurt Warner cannot continue to play at the same level much longer and Matt Leinart hasn’t shown much. A couple positive or negative moves by any team can change the entire divisional landscape. Things are not as dismal as they seem.

  85. Swordfish10 says:

    Prediction: If the Seahawks don’t clean house, including Head Coach and take a brand new direction, next year will include some non-sellouts and TV blackouts. Is this what PA wants? The Seahawks a no-class bottom dweller ? A good start (other than smarter drafting) is an old-fashioned hard-nosed Defense minded HC and a nastier attitude throughout.

  86. BobbyAyala says:

    The VMAC is a good example of the state of the Seahawks, in my opinion.

    They are a lot of fluff and not enough substance.

    I believe that is a direct result of the mission statements Tod Leiweke guides the organization with.

    I believe the top of the pyramid is something along the lines of: Maintain fan support with first-class facilities and operations.

    I believe “win football games” is somewhere in the middle of the pyramid.

    The only evidence I have is the product the team rolls out, and that includes everything, not just the coaches and players.

    It appears the Seahawks have followed the Mariners model of “fill seats first, worry about the team second.”

  87. jandyhenson says:

    How can the Colts give up a chance at going undefeated? I think giving up momentum is a huge mistake. Look at what happened to the Saints…

  88. Dukeshire says:

    Ruskell turned out to be a failure, true, despite a promising start. And I’m sure that mistakes made along the way, regarding the hiring process, will not be repeated. Ruskell was a first time GM and made decisions like it.

    It’s the rest of my quote that brings home my point about more than expectations, but given all the things necessary to succeed.

    “Someone has to be held accountable.” Correct. To date, it’s been Ruskell and moving forward I will be shocked if it’s not Mora as well.

  89. Dukeshire says:

    VMAC is a state of the art facility designed to attract players (FAs) and provide the team with all that is necessary to maximize their ability. It is all about fielding a wining team, from what I can tell.

  90. BobbyAyala says:

    I respect Paul Allen, but Paul Allen is a business man and a sports fan.

    He has never won a championship in either basketball and football despite the fact that he has more means than any other owner in either league.

    Meanwhile, a guy like George Steinbrenner eats, drinks and breathes one word: “Win.”

    So, based on that track record, and all of the evidence, the logical conclusion is that PA is more interested in making money than winning games.

    That sounds harsh, it sounds like blasphemy, and, I feel a little dirty typing it, but, it’s at least worth examining without instantly brushing it off.

  91. BobbyAyala says:

    “VMAC is a state of the art facility designed to attract players (FAs) and provide the team with all that is necessary to maximize their ability.”

    Except it has done neither.

  92. BobbyAyala says:

    Well, I take that back, it attracts players. But, at the same time, makes them awfully soft.

  93. jandyhenson says:

    If you clean house now and start from scratch it may be a decade or more before this team contends again. There is a lot of youth on the fied for Seattle right now and it is frustrating to watch them play like they have lately. On the other hand they have the tools in place now to improve. I believe we need to dump a few high-priced veterans (Branch, Kerney, Grant) and bring in a couple players on the o-line.

  94. jandyhenson says:

    No salary cap in baseball means Steinbrenner can buy championships. If PA didn’t have constraints I’m sure he would do the same.

  95. Dukeshire says:

    With due respect, you make it sound as if the Seahawks have never had success under Allen. They have 5 division championships and a Super Bowl appearance in his 13 seasons as owner. If anything, this is the exception for his ownership, not the rule.

  96. BobbyAyala says:

    True, but they’ve also played in the weakest division in the history of the NFL.

    Besides 2005, the Seahawks have never dominated the West.

    Stringing together countless 9-7 titles is hardly setting the world on fire.

    When the Seahawks have a defense that intimidates opponents, when they have offensive players that other teams must gameplan for, then they will have respect around the league.

    Until then, it’s all just fluff.

  97. BobbyAyala says:

    “No salary cap in baseball means Steinbrenner can buy championships. If PA didn’t have constraints I’m sure he would do the same. ”

    Different games, true, but the concept is the same.

    Otherwise, you can’t explain the Colts and the Patriots. The difference is, in football you put your money into smart football people. You also don’t hand out huge contracts to 30 year old running backs who have peaked.

    Different game, same concept.

  98. jandyhenson says:

    “The difference is, in football you put your money into smart football people. You also don’t hand out huge contracts to 30 year old running backs who have peaked”

    I agree. As I said in my earlier post:

    “The Seahawks have made horrible personnel decisions over the last few years (Branch, Shaun, Hutch). The only way to fix it is to get a quality GM.”

    The concept between having unlimited money to spend (baseball) and having to strategicaly operate within the cap are different. The Colts and Patriots have not always been great. Their GM’s have done a good job of drafting and signing FA’s. The owners involovement has been limited. Ruskell has been our problem. Hopefully the organization will bring in a quality GM.

  99. Dukeshire says:

    BobbyAyala – We can agree to disagree then. But I when I go to Qwest next SUnday and look up at the championship banners, I won’t be thinking fluff. You can if you like. You know something, the Steinbrenner thing works the other way too, ask Redskin fans.

  100. bigmike04 says:

    To person say Jim Mora jr had good career in Atlanta got to be joking, Mora was riding Mike Vick as QB in his 1st yr but soon as team started to figure how to defend against Vick than Mora threw him under the bus.

    Mora need to be fired to make an example out him along with his coaching staff as he says the same stuff each week with no improvement.

    Mora should have gone through the hiring process like alot of team but no Hawks didn’t bring anyone else but hand him the job because of Russell relationship with him.

  101. snydro22 says:

    BobbyAyala,

    How do you plan to get my money? Paypal?

  102. Bernie42 says:

    Here are my keepers in an ideal world for 2010:

    Hass
    Forsett
    Housh
    Burleson
    Carlson
    Unger

    Mebane
    Lofa
    Curry
    Hawthorne
    Wilson
    Grant (overpaid, but decent imo)
    Trufant (assuming he is not this imposter we’ve seen this year)

    Ryan
    Mare

    I agree with this list (from pdway), but I think trading Hawthorne would be best for him and for us (he is starting-caliber). I also would add Butler and Tapp, just ’cause they’re young and should continue to improve.

  103. jandyhenson says:

    bigmike-Mora took a 5-11 team, went 11-5 with and made it to the NFC Championship game in his first season with Atlanta. His next 2 seasons were marginal. He was not great, but had some success.

  104. I have to wonder about Leiweke defending Mora in any way… You don’t have to be a scholar, a great business man, leader… whatever, to realize that Mora has lost this team… All one needs to do is watch the games, listen to the press conferences and listen to the 12th man…. If Leiweke truly is a leader and wants to fill the stadium next year, he better be sure Mora is gone… To ignore what’s happening would be ignorant and would HAVE to jeopordize one’s position/job security… regardless of job level or friendships…

  105. Bernie42…. agree totally about Butler & Tapp… don’t agree about Hawthorne being traded…. This year, again, is a perfect example why one would want 4 quality LB’s… injuries … Even if all stay healthy, the Def Coordinator should know how to get the maximum from those players…

  106. Dukeshire says:

    What did you expect Leiweke to say? Of course he’s going to have Mora’s back, in public, during the season.

  107. jzelazny says:

    Hasselbeck will be playing for the Browns next season.

  108. Bernie42-
    I’d remove Grant if after moving him back to FS he continued poor play, and at least add Hill, Cole, Sims, Red, Griffith, Reed, Laury, SW and Schmitt to your list. I take these guy’s performance stats into account at ProFootballFocus, as well as knowing that 8 players is usually the most any team can lose at one time and not end up 2-14 the following year, and that special teams needs some cover guys, etc.

    jandyhenson-
    “Mora took a 5-11 team, went 11-5 with and made it to the NFC Championship game in his first season with Atlanta….”

    Gotta look a little deeper at that.

    Prior to Mora, Dan Reeves, was HC for ATL from ’97 to ’03. Prior to Reeves joining the Falcons as HC, the Falcons finished ’96 at 3-13.

    Reeves 1st yr record (’97) was 7-9, 2nd in NFCW.

    His 2nd year there (’98), Reeves took the Falcons to 14-2, 1st in NFCW, winning their first NFC Championship. He also underwent quadruple-bypass heart surgery in Dec that season, returned to the sidelines 3 wks later. Reeves led the Falcons to SB 33 in ’99 (after the ’98 season) losing to his old team, the Broncos.

    ’99: 5-11, 3rd in NFCW, no playoffs.
    ’00: 4-12, 5th in NFCW, no playoffs.
    ’01: Drafted Vick and Crumpler, went 7-9, 3rd in NFCS. Wade Phillips hired as DC.
    ’02: 9-6-1, 2nd in NFCS, went 1-1 in playoffs, lost to PHI in NFC Divisionals.

    ’03: By now ATL was a one-man team. Vick broke his leg in preseason and was out 3.5 mns. Reeves went 2-10 with Vicks backups, who weren’t very good. Vick came back to QB in game 13 and ATL beat CAR. Blank fired Reeves and started to headhunt for a new HC as Phillips finished out the season with Vick, ending up 5-11. In ’03 ATL won 3 games and lost 1 with Vick playing.

    ’04: Mora was hired as HC early Jan, TR was hired about a week later. Vick was healthy and played all season and ATL ended reg season 11-5, 1st in NFCS, going 1-1 in postseason.

    ’05: 8-8, 3rd NFCS, no playoffs.

    ’06: 7-9, 3rd NFCS, no playoffs.

  109. Mora and all of his coaches need to go. He blames the shortcomings of his teams on his players. That may be true but a true leader doesn’t call out his employees in public. All it sounds like is Mora trying anything to save his job even if it means throwing people under the bus. This happened in Atlanta and sure seems to be happening here now to. Time to start grooming Matt’s replacement and to get rid of Wallace. He will never be a starting QB. Also get rid of the high priced veteran’s lioke Jones, Kearney, Branch and others.

  110. MattandCindy says:

    There will be a line of fans holding pitchforks and torches if Jim Mora is back here next season. I know it’s only been 1 year, but we are watching a man with no confidence stand on the sideline, and he’s completely lost at press conferences. You would have to be an ignorant fool to not notice the contempt on the faces of every player we have.

  111. nighthawk2 says:

    I’ll answer that question Ryan, the answer is not only NO!, not only Hell NO! but it’s $&%( NO! Jim Mora is an unitigated disaster, keeping him as head coach makes about as much sense as making George W. Bush FEMA director or appointing Charlie Manson as activities director for Boys Club, the results you’ll get will make you puke. If Tod Leiweke wants to keep Mora then he needs to be fired, hell he needs to be fired anyway. Leiweke wouldn’t know a football from a watermelon and comes from a hockey and basketball background, his job description sounds like he’s a business manager for Paul Allen:

    “Tod Leiweke enters his sixth season with the Seattle Seahawks after joining the club in June 2003. The 2008 season is Leiweke’s 26th season in professional sports. Leiweke serves as Chief Executive Officer for the Seattle Seahawks and oversees all aspects of the club. In addition, he is president of First and Goal Inc., the organization that manages Qwest Field and Event Center for the state of Washington. On March 1, 2007, Paul Allen named him CEO of Vulcan Sports and Entertainment, a new entity in which Leiweke assumes responsibility for all aspects of the Seahawks, First and Goal Inc, the Allen-owned Portland Trail Blazers and Rose Garden…”

    http://www.seahawks.com/team/staff/Tod-Leiweke/d910d7fc-c998-4e0a-893a-cca47017938c

    His title is CEO of Vulcan Sports and Entertainment, the Seahawks, First & Goal Inc and, worst of all, the Sounders. Fine, go be a business manager, and let’s put a football guy in as team president and abolish the “CEO of the Seahawks” title, and Tod can continue to be a huckster and sell tickets.

    Jim Mora is in way over his head, he’s clueless and his staff is as incompetent as he is. We see weekly why Greg Knapp got his play calling duties taken away in Oakland last year, the DC is in only his 4th year as an NFL coach (three years as LB coach at Tampa after 10 years as head coach of football factory North Dakota State), he kept the same “strength and conditioning” coaches that led the league injuries last year (and years before) , and can someone explain why Larry Marmie, a disaster everywhere he’s been, still has anything to do with our secondary?? Yeah, I know he’s listed as an assistant, he still sucks. Dan Quinn, who’s seemingly never stayed anywhere longer than two years, is not only DL coach but “assistant head coach”? Bleech. Bruce DeHaven heads perhaps the worst ST unit in the league. And Leiweke wants this guy back as head coach? This is a guy who throws players under the bus but never looks at himself or his staff, refuses to think there’s anything wrong with his coaching or staff’s decisions, runs out the same tired, inane crap at press conferences about “fixing things” and “working harder” 15 games into the season and has lost this team. What will fix things is a new GM who can judge talent, a coach who knows what he’s doing and can hire a competent staff, and players with guts and some stones. Ever seen North Dallas Forty? I want some offensive linemen like O.W. Shaddock and Joe Bob Priddy.

  112. snydro22 says:

    Hey NightHawk,

    I like your idea about what to do with Tod Leiweke.. And apparently so do the Hawks, because that’s how it is..

    We are looking for a new President, because, in case you forgot, ours was just fired..

    Bob Kraft is the CEO of the Patriots. Do you think he makes football decisions?

    Neither does Leiweke.. Look at all the stuff he is in charge of overseeing.. and you think he’s watching game film in his free time? Umm…

  113. markd1961 says:

    Mora needs to be fired and Matt needs to be benched. I wanna see Seneca take the team against Vince Young and Tennessee to close out the season.

  114. Mora,Knapp & Bradley,oh the whole group of Coaches for the Hawks need to be fired.. Take Liweke out,call one of the proven GM`s. Hire all new Coaches..play Teel,feature Forsett..bench J.J.,quit going to Branch go to Housh,Butler,Carlson

  115. I vote BobbyK poster of the week!!

    Bobby, work something up for the Practice Squad guys, how a team, once it is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, should focus on the future. TNT should publish it!!

    I think our FO failed miserably in that regard and that responsibility falls on Ruston Webster, this should eliminate him from contention as our future GM.

    Our coach keeps trotting out veterans who are not playing well, why? Our coaching staff is failing to develop players, it should cost them their jobs as well. Hass, Jones, Griffith, Branch… why are they playing? None are playing well – none are developmental types. Wallace/Teel is probably no better than Hass, but at least they are developmental prospects. Forsett, Schmitt, Butler have shown fire and skills – they need to develop in order for the team to improve in ’10 and beyond.

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