Seahawks Insider

Pete Carroll: Seahawks starters to play some in Denver but kids will play “bulk”

Post by Gregg Bell / The News Tribune on Aug. 6, 2014 at 12:20 pm with 139 Comments »
August 6, 2014 5:22 pm
Expect to see this -- Marshawn Lynch in a hoodie -- instead of a helmet Thursday night in Denver (Elaine Thompson / AP photo).
Expect to see this — Marshawn Lynch in a hoodie — instead of a helmet Thursday night in Denver (Elaine Thompson / AP photo).

The Seahawks just finished a walk-through practice without pads or helmets that lasted less than an hour — standard fare for a team that is boarding buses to Sea-Tac Airport within the hour for its flight to Denver for Thursday night’s preseason opener.

Coach Pete Carroll played coy when asked how long his starters will play in the psuedo-Super Bowl rematch with the Broncos.

“The starters will be out there for a while, but the bulk of the game will be played by the young guys,” Carroll said.

One starter you almost certainly won’t see in anything but his signature, preseason-game outfit of hoodie pulled up over his head: Marshawn Lynch. The star running back rarely plays in exhibition games, anyway, and this time he is only a week into practicing following a short contract holdout from training camp.

“He’s coming along,” Carroll said, before adding, “he needs a lot of work to get back.”

Here’s video at what else Carroll said, including his proclamation that “it’s time to turn that page” away from winning the Super Bowl six months ago:

Other quick notes:

–Carroll says guard James Carpenter, who recently missed a few days with a calf injury, will be in uniform in Denver. But the coach wasn’t sure if the starter will be able to play. As usual, Carroll said the Seahawks will be conservative on bringing banged up players back for these four preseason games

–Speedy Paul Richardson, the rookie second-round pick who returned to practice Monday from a shoulder injury, will play. Richardson starred at the University of Colorado in Boulder, about 45 minutes north of Denver.

–Fellow rookie wide receiver Kevin Norwood will not play — for a while. The fourth-round pick out of Alabama had a bone spur surgically removed from his foot on Tuesday, Carroll said. The coach says Norwood could be back to practice before the end of the preseason. That injury creates opportunities for free agents such as CFL veteran Chris Matthews and former Washington Husky Kevin Smith, as well as a chance for Phil Bates to seize a higher standing the crowded wide-receiver pecking order.

–Carroll would like to get all four of his quarterbacks game time against the Broncos, but B.J. Daniels may not appear. The waiver acquisition last year from the 49ers “tweaked his groin,” in the coach’s words. That’s more game time for Terrelle Pryor and Tavaris Jackson to battle it out for the primary backup job behind Russell Wilson. An educated (if I may be so bold to call it “educated”) guess is that Pryor and Jackson, not necessarily in that order, split the final three quarters Thursday.

–Rookie fourth-round pick Kevin Pierre-Louis won’t play at outside linebacker because of an oblique strain. Seattle already had Bruce Irvin, Super Bowl MVP Malcolm Smith and Korey Toomer at that position, so rookie free agent Horace Miller will likely play a lot

–Free-agent wide receiver David Gilreath hasn’t practiced recently. Carroll said Gilreath has a concussion.

–From the Gee, Thanks Department: The team cut cornerback Trey Wolfe, one day after the Seahawks signed him out of Division II — and then had him line up opposite Percy Harvin and other veterans in practice. The free agent (predictably) allowed numerous catches. The team signed Michael Dobson, a 6-foot, 191-pound defensive back out of East Carolina, to take the open roster spot. Dobson got some extra tutoring from coaches for a few minutes on the field following today’s practice

Leave a comment Comments → 139
  1. Dont count Kevin Smith out. While I think he’s more likely headed to another teams roster or our PS, the kid looks good and makes plays and is strong and tough.

    Good news of sorts for Norwood; its not a lis franc injury, and it doesnt look like IR for him. I think he’s got a spot locked up if he can get going by Game One. Otherwise he might get IR anyway.

    Gilreath is toast.

  2. seaturkeys says:

    I hope it’s not an ugly game without Jeanpierre.

  3. montanamike2 says:

    Very surprised about Norwood, i thought he was done. Sorry to get back so late mocarob, i do have Directv, i’m going to check that out right away.

  4. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Agree seaturkeys.

    I don’t want to see Unger in there long across from (“I can block out the sun with my big butt & make it Knighton on you”)

  5. ohiohawkfan says:

    Georgia – “I can block out the sun with my big butt & make it Knighton on you”

    That was damn funny

  6. Dukeshire says:

    It’s going to be fun to watch TP and Jackson battle for the backup QB position. By all accounts, Pryor has looked good in camp and if that translates to game action Jackson’s days could be numbered.

  7. wazzulander says:

    I’m anxious to see Christine Michaels play and if anyone can take the lead in the punt return competition.

  8. Based on practice reports and recent transactions I updated the roster “analysis” I have been maintaining. On offence…..

    Quarterbacks: Last year kept 2
    Virtual lock: Russell Wilson
    Looking safe: Tarvaris Jackson.
    Longer odds: Terrelle Pryor, B.J. Daniels

    Running backs: Last year kept 5
    Virtual locks: Marshawn Lynch, Robert Turbin, Christine Michael,
    Looking safe: Derrick Coleman
    Longer odds: Spencer Ware, Kiero Small, Dimitrius Bronson

    Wide receivers: Last year kept 5
    Virtual locks: Percy Harvin, Doug Baldwin, Paul Richardson, Jermaine Kearse
    Looking safe: Kevin Norwood
    Longer odds: Ricardo Lockette , Phil Bates, Arceto Clark, Chris Mathews, Bryan Walters, David Gilreath, Presley Morrell, Kevin Smith
    Injured Reserve: Taylor Price

    Tight ends: Last year kept 2
    Virtual Locks: Zach Miller, Luke Willson
    Looking safe: Cooper Helfet
    Longer odds: Chase Dixon, Allen RaShaun
    Injured reserve: Anthony McCoy

    Offensive line: Last year kept 10
    Virtual locks: Russell Okung, James Carpenter, Max Unger, J.R. Sweezy, Justin Britt, Alvin Bailey, Eric Winston
    Looking safe: Lemuel Jeanpierre, Wade Smith
    Longer odds: Gary Gilliam, Stephen Schilling, Caylin Hauptmann, Greg Van Roten, Brandon Cory, C.J. Davis, Nate Isles

  9. And on defence and specials…..

    Defensive line: Last year kept 10
    Virtual locks: Brandon Mebane, Tony McDaniel, Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Kevin Williams
    Looking safe: Jordan Hill, Greg Scruggs, Cassius Marsh, Benson Mayowa
    Longer odds:,D’Anthony Smith, Michael Brooks, Jackson Jeffcoat, Andru Pulu, Jimmy Staten
    Injured reserve: Jesse Williams

    Linebackers: Last year kept 7
    Virual locks: K.J. Wright, Bobby Wagner, Bruce Irvin, Malcolm Smith
    Looking safe: Kevin Pierre-Louis, Korey Toomer,
    Longer odds: Brock Coyle, O’Brian Schofield, Mike Taylor, Mike Morgan, Heath Farwell, Horace Miller, Marcus Dowtin

    Defensive backs: Last year kept 9
    Virtual locks: Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Byron Maxwell, Jeremy Lane, Tharold Simon
    Looking safe: Jeron Johnson, De Shawn Shead
    Longer odds: Phillip Adams, Thomas Terrell, Eric Pinkins, Akeem Auguste, A.J. Jefferson, Terrance Parks, Michael Dobson, Steven Terrell

    Specialists: Last year kept 3
    Virtual locks: Clint Gresham (LS), Steven Hauschka (K), Jon Ryan (P)

  10. DreadHawks says:

    I fing it odd how last year they raved about Lynchs great shape and this year “he needs alot of work to get back.” Hmmm.Maybe I’m reading too much into it.

  11. Reading way too much into it.

  12. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I agree with you Duke on Pryor/Jackson.

    Pryor has so much upside & (like you said) if it shows in pre-season.
    I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Pryor as backup.

  13. yankinta says:

    Hmmm…. I have mixed feelings about BJ Daniels….

    On one hand, I want to see what he can do since I was not able to watch 49ers pre season games last year, where he was making a ton of plays…. But if he plays well, we might not be able to stash him on P-Squad.

    On the other hand, I rather him not play that much that way,, no one would see what he can do and the chances of him getting picked up on waiver is less likely….

    As for competition for backup QB spot, I’m betting and hoping the Pryor wins. :)

  14. Hammajamma says:

    I realize Carroll is not timid about going with young guys, but I would stunned (at this point) if they kept Pryor over Jackson. If he’s become a more consistent and mistake-free QB, then I can see it. But I need to see it.

  15. chuck_easton says:

    Well I don’t have a horse in the race (can’t use the older form of that saying thanks to Mr. Vick) so I don’t care which QB wins the backup job.

    The business side of me says Pryor is going to have to be decidedly better than TJack to take that #2 job.

    All things being equal the guaranteed money would likely be the tie breaker.

    May the better QB win.

  16. Gregg Bell says:

    Wazzulander: Carroll was coy today when asked if Earl Thomas would get the first crack at being the punt returner. “You’ll have to wait and see,” is what the coach said. My view is Thomas is too valuable to the defense to return punts, but we’ll see.

  17. yankinta says:

    Best Case Scenario for Building Dynasty:

    * Pryor wins the competition and T-Jack getting traded to another team that had QB injury during a preseason game.

    * Pryor would likely get a bigger contract than T-Jack next year, which would result in getting us better Comp Pick.

    * BJ Daniels or another QB becomes our Backup QB in 2015. (My money is on BJ Daniels)

  18. Gregg Bell says:

    DreadHawks, re: Lynch: Just a thought: Perhaps Carroll is sending a veiled message now, way before the games get real and stakes are high, to other veterans with contracts due to expire in coming years that holding out will put you in the “needs-a-lot-of-work-to-get-back” category with the coaching staff. Just a hunch. I’ve known many coaches, Carroll included, to deliver messaging agendas like that when they talk about their star players.

  19. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I totally agree with Gregg about Thomas being too valuable to the defense to return punts.

  20. wazzulander says:

    Yeah, thanks Gregg, I think I’m in the minority in not being overly concerned about Earl returning punts. He seems so confident and set on doing it that I’m real curious to see how well he does.

    BTW, welcome aboard and you are off to a heck of a start! Great stuff so far!!

  21. GeorgiaHawk says:


    My best case scenario for building a dynasty.

    * Wilson never getting injured.

  22. yankinta says:

    GeorgiaHawk,, lol true but your point and my point are mutually exclusive. Even if Wilson nevet gets inured, we Still/Always need a backup QB.

  23. sluggo42 says:

    Very pleased with Norwoods situation. I said earlier he was aMy choice as rookie of the year. I think his sure hands make him the ultimate check down safety basket.

  24. most curious to see Michael, Simon, an the rookies (Richardson and Marsh). some interesting stuff for this pre-season.

    agree w/the posters who think that Pryor is really going to have to show something new and improved to beat out Tarvaris, who seems to be well situated these days as the veteran, reliable, won’t-kill-you if Wilson goes down for a game, back-up QB.

  25. I heard Pryor has not looked good in camp. He is fast and can heave a deep ball, but otherwise is not accurate with his throws.

    Considering T Jack has a guaranteed deal and is a better QB, I don’t think there is any chance Pryor will be the #2 this season. Maybe next year.

  26. Dukeshire says:

    GeorgiaHawk – Exactly. A player that theoretically would never see the field has no relevance on building a dynasty.

  27. I can see Earl returning punts. I believe Pete values special teams, I.e field position, more than most due to our defense. Our D is able to pin the opponents back easier, therefore, the punt return is that much more valuable and we will more than likely have short fields more times than not if not chances to actually score on them.

  28. Basically, Pete thinks it’s worth it to allow Earl to return punts.

  29. Gregg Bell says:

    seaturkeys, GeorgiaHawk: Re: Jeanpierre: I got my Frenchmen mixed. It’s rookie fourth-round pick LB Kevin Pierre-Louis with the oblique strain who will not play in Denver. Backup center Jeanpierre is alive and well — much to the relief of Max Unger.

    Sorry about the mistake. The great Dave B. tipped me off to re-check the audio. Thanks Dave.

  30. pabuwal says:

    Pryor has the same shot at beating out Jackson for number 2 QB spot this year as I do of beating Wilson out for the number 1 spot.

  31. If Earl Thomas returns a punt in a regular season game, I will eat my hat.

  32. mocarob says:

    What kind of hat?

  33. montanamike2 says:

    It’s nice to see the new guy, Gregg Bell, being active in our discussions and interacting with us. I’m glad to hear Lem is going to be active at center after all. Since we need a backup QB after this year, i think this might be the year we keep 3 on the roster with next year possibly being Pryor at the #2 after TJack is gone, or the possibility of trading one after a QB goes down. Will Pryor be affordable as the backup QB? It doesn’t seem like he has a lot of options right now.

  34. pabuwal says:

    I think 3 QBs is a virtual certainty (Wilson, Jackson and Pryor) with BJ Daniels at home with Yank offering expert QB insights.

  35. I am HIGHLY concerned with Earl returning kicks!! Many other options I would rather see return kicks

    Heck Pryor

  36. PLUHawkFan says:

    I’m not terribly concerned about ET returning punts. I think the best player regardless of their “other” position should play. In my unscientific research, I see no reason to conclude that “Punt returner” is higher risk for injury then other positions.

    With the speed at which ET plays, he’s just as likely to get hurt playing safety. He’s elusive enough and has good enough vision I believe to avoid most big hits. Getting injured playing football though is just part of the game. I don’t subscribe to the “he’s too valuable to risk”. He is EXTREMELY valuable, but part of his value if things work out the way they appear is that he’s one hell of a punt returner.

    All of that said, if the difference is minuscule between him and the next best option then by all means save some wear and tear on his body and go with 2nd best option. But only if it’s REALLY close.

    Otherwise we should play best player at every position. Always compete!!

  37. confucious says:

    I agree with you xman. No way in hell do I want my most irreplaceable man on D returning kicks.

  38. jboard1 says:

    TruBlu, regarding Earl…it’s true our defense can do that and get the ball back…but our D relies on Earl to make things function. He is the oil that makes the gears turn. If he goes down returning punts, the situation is much different on D without him. I would rather see someone else returns punts, and especially during the preseason. While i drool of the thought of how Well Earl would do returning punts, i’d say the risk is not worth the reward given all of the other speedy options we have.

  39. I don’t remember Deon being coddled

  40. Plus, how many people have actually gotten injured returning punts?

  41. jboard1 says:

    No clue, just my 2 cents that without Earl the D is not as lethal. Freaks me out.

  42. Southendzone says:

    Blocis, a couple suggestions:

    Pretty sure chase dixon got cut, might wanna remove him

    Hearing lots of chatter that Hauptmann getting significant reps and likely to make roster

    Toomer been out with hammy for a long time now, may not be looking safe

    Heard somewhere jeffcoat is working as SAM, not sure if that affects your chart.

    Aside from that its all reasonable

  43. Toomer will have a hard time making the team IMO – there are rumors that he can not remember his assignments – the learning part is a tough part for him. He has all the physical gifts….

  44. Oldslow says:

    Nice new banner up top, there.

  45. Ray_Maines says:

    RE: Punt returner.

    It’s all about Value Over Replacement. How good is your second best punt returner? How good is your second best free safety? I don’t want to see ET or Sherman returning punts. How about Phil Bates?

  46. jawpeace says:

    I like the new banner as well, Glad to hear our French lineman is good. JP is a lock to make the team and I thought he would have been an up grade at the guard position if he got to start last year.

  47. Interesting comparison between QBs TP & TJax who has played in Bevell’s offense at least since ’07. In ’11 TP came in for one snap in the week 7 game KC@OAK causing a penalty and running for a loss. That was it for ’11. In ’12 TP played in 3 games, 4 snaps v.KC in week 15, 3 snaps @CAR in week 16, and played the entire game @SD in week 17, 65 snaps. Overall a pedestrian ’12 season. In ’13 TP played most of 9 games and part of two more. Weeks 3 and 5 he had good full games, but the rest were not so good. I don’t think Cable had much to do with TP’s career in OAK, but wonder if TP would really be any better behind Cable’s OL than TJax, since TP has not been known for having particularly good passing performances in games. TP can scramble, but other than weeks 3 and 5 of ’13 he has not had positive passing performances in games, per PFF.

  48. Ewalters7354 says:

    Wasn’t Golden Tate valuable to the offense? Did Pete let him play receiver only? Nope!

    The reason you guys don’t want ET back there is because of possible injuries.But dude can get hurt playing defense too.I think if Earl is any good back there he’ll be the guy.

    Percy is g valuable to the offense but you think Pete is gonna take him off kick returns?

  49. When you have Doug Baldwin and Percy Harvin on your team, having Earl Thomas returning punts is just plain stupid.

  50. montanamike2 says:

    I’m on the fence on this one, ET would have to be a game changer like Harvin. We won a SB without Harvin even with all his gifts of speed and such, no way we win a SB without ET.

  51. Ewalters….. injuries is only one part of the reason that ET should not return punts. The other reason is ball security. WR’s and RB’s are all used to carrying and securing the ball. Using players who only play and practice defence to carry the ball is highly risky.

    Baldwin and Harvin are better options.

  52. jboard1 says:

    Spot on Ray.

    The difference i see with Golden is that he was just a receiver. Not the best receiver in the league, as ET is at his position. Earl is not replaceable, where Golden was. They proved they didn’t think as highly of him, essentially letting him walk.

    Regardless, I think we have to trust PC to make the best decision, but i personally hope it’s not ET. If it is, I will be excited to see him shine, but will hold my breath every time he touches a return.

    Oh, and the Seahawks play today! Woohoo!

  53. montanamike2 says:

    Exactly! Today’s the day!!!!!!!

  54. Ewalters7354 says:

    Baldwin and Harvin never returned punts dude so how is it stupid? Golden Tate wasn’t the best but he was a key part to the offense and had good chemistry with RW.He was considered by some the top receiver on the team and still returned punts.

    Not to mention Percy was injured and Pete still let him return kicks.

    Pete Carroll would never say ET and Sherm are in the competition if he was worried about them getting injured.

  55. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Tate wasn’t just replaceable, the FO was able to upgrade him with Harvin.

    It will be interesting to see how ET does in pre-season if they give him punt return touches.

    If he has trouble handling the ball the experiment will be over quick.
    Much like the Turbin kick return experiment.

  56. Ewalters7354 says:

    Let put Phil Bates back there because we don’t want Earl to risk getting injured and he fumbles with the game on the line…I bet some of you would be the first to say get him from back there lol

  57. SandpointHawk says:

    Better photo Gregg, good job.

  58. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I can’t help but think of all the dropped possible ints that ET had a couple years back.

    Then I think of all the great ints he had last year.

    I don’t know? How about Kearse returning punts?

  59. montanamike2 says:

    I had assumed it would be Richardson, with Harvin returning Kicks. That kind of speed would give us a terror at returns, but i’m not Pete.

  60. Ray_Maines says:

    In about, you know, TWELVE more hours we’ll all be glued to our TV’s. Guys in real uniforms playing an actual game (sort of). Go ‘Hawks!!

  61. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I can see your point with regards to ET returning punts Ewalters.
    If ET wants to do it that bad I wouldn’t bet against him succeeding.

    It’s just us older Seahawks fans went through this awhile back with the great Kenny Easley & it didn’t turn out well.

  62. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Montana, I really don’t want to see Richardson back there.

    I just don’t think he would hold up for long.

    It has to be someone like Tate that has durability to go along with his toughness & break away talent. Imo.

  63. Ewalters…. you correct in that neither Baldwin or Harvin have ever returned punts.

    Still, they have returned kicks and as WR’s handle the ball in traffic / get tackled all the time. I think that makes them better suited to be a punt returner than Earl Thomas.

  64. Paul Richardson has exactly one college PR on his resume.

  65. Ewalters7354 says:

    I agree with that blocis.Personally,I don’t wanna see ET return punts either.Just think Pete will give him every shot to be the man back there.We’ve seen Richard Sherman return punts in preseason his rookie year and he showed he’s not elusive or fast enough to be a threat back there.

  66. montanamike2 says:

    GeorgiaHawk he may be too slight of frame as you suggest.

  67. Ewalters7354 says:

    Earl Thomas will be a potential fumble machine with those small hands of his lol

  68. Ewalters7354 says:

    I’m working in Raleigh NC until Sunday so I won’t be able to catch the game.Dammit!!

  69. jboard1 says:

    Russell has big hands, let’s see if he would be a good punt returner! :) JK JK JK, please god no

  70. DFloydd says:

    Wow. So much hand wringing over Earl returning punts. He’s as likely to get hurt returning punts as when he’s tackling receivers in the open field. Bunch of nervous Nellie’s on this blog. If he has proven to be the best so far in camp then let’s see what he can do in game situations. He’s a fumble machine waiting to happen? He “could” get hurt? Really? I really don’t see it as a big deal. He’s a football player and a great one at that. I say if he wants to do it and is capable then go for it Earl. I don’t believe in “protecting” your best players. I like the coach’s guts. Any slight edge in a game is invaluable. In Pete I Trust

  71. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire and Georgia, you guys are Short Sighted if you think “A player that theoretically would never see the field has no relevance on building a dynasty.”

    He would have relevance on building a dynasty, if we can trade that player to get draft picks, and/or let him go as a Free Agent to another team and we get Comp Picks back,, and we can use these picks to go get another Byron Maxwell or J. Lane etc,, And of course to do that we need to have another viable option like BJ Daniel to replace that player…

  72. Ewalters7354 says:

    He’s a potential fumble machine with those small hands.You left that out lol

  73. I remember Warner and Easley hurting themselves returning punts. Its way more dangerous than playing FS. However, if that wuss Deion Sanders could return punts, so can Earl.

    Im still against the idea, but I wont go all wonky if they use him. Still, we have solid WR’s and lots of fast athletes who we could try instead.

  74. Ewalters7354 says:

    If Bj Daniels was good he would be in he competition,but he’s not.I think he’ll be cut as soon as the first wave of cuts come around.

    Bye bye Bj

  75. wazzulander says:

    I think its safe to assume anyone who shows ball security issues (game or practice) will be removed from the punt return competition. I don’t mind seeing Earl compete at punt returner because its consistent with Carroll’s message of competition and valuing special teams. If he is a Deon or Hester like game changer than that would be an incredible asset. But I would think Harvin has that kind of potential more than anyone, I’m curious why he hasn’t been a punt returner before.

  76. Pryor has enough athletic gifts and has shown enough intelligence that Seattle feels he’s worth looking into as a possible backup to RW, longterm, at the very least. If he continues to improve through preseason, and they think his ceiling is high, they will find a way to keep him.

    What that means for T-Jack I dont know, but we shall see.

  77. I really liked the old RW picture, but a pic of him with the Lombardi is genius. Nice job, Gregg!

    And thank you for posting comments, and for letting us know about your mistake on JeanPierre, I was worried we’d have no C for much of the game lol!

  78. Ray_Maines says:

    Something else about ET returning punts: In the preseason there are about 40 crazy people on each team that are going to be cut in a week or two and need to make a name for themselves on special teams. They’ll do just about anything to anybody to secure a job, and I don’t want any Seahawk with any value on the field during a kickoff or a punt.

  79. pabuwal says:

    Russell Wilson running some read option to Terrell Pryor returning punts.

  80. yankinta says:

    STTBM,, I agree with you but Even IF Pryor makes the roster, we cannot afford him next year. He will be a free agent next year and we’re not paying our Backup QB more than a minimum salary since RW will be making 22 Mill a year…. Hopefully he will get a decent contract with another team and we’ll get back comp picks…

    That is how Dynasties are built. :)

  81. montanamike2 says:

    I had a list of players i wanted to see tonight, now you can add Brock Coyle to that list.

  82. yankinta says:

    WOW,, Here’s a FUN FACT for All Seahawks Fans… :)

    “Pete Carroll was sure about Seattle. And Seattle was … cautiously optimistic about Pete Carroll.

    Here’s proof: In 2010, his first season as coach of the Seahawks, Carroll made his “Win Forever” book available at booths and the team store at the stadium. Seattle opened at home and beat the San Francisco 49ers, 31-6, undoubtedly leaving elated Seahawks fans intrigued about the USC coaching transplant’s words of wisdom.

    The next day, Ben Malcolmson, Carroll’s right-hand man, called the team store to check on book sales. No restocking was required.

    Total sales among that crowd of 67,044?

    Three books.”

  83. Ray_Maines says:

    That’s kind of funny because I just bought a brand new, hardcover copy on Amazon for less than $10. I’t not here yet so I can’t give a review, but I’m hoping that the more we know about PC, the easier it will be to figure him out.

  84. jboard1 says:

    I bought the book the first year it was for sale. Good read. Definitely made me believe in Pete and buy in to what he was bringing here. Pretty cool to see it all come to fruition.

  85. Dukeshire says:

    yankinta – Yes. to build a dynasty, teams have to draft well. I think we’re all aware of that. But if you believe Georgia and I are “shortsighted”, I would argue that your view that comp picks, or trading a player that never sees the field for a low round pick that may develop into a serviceable starter is grossly myopic.

    Regarding the punt returner situation: the reason I’m against Thomas doing it (and I have no doubt he’d work his ass off to be of value as a returner) is because he is such a violent defender that I don’t want to see him taking any more unnecessary hits. HIs value as FS far outweighs whatever his contributions might potentially be as a returner, in my opinion.

  86. GeorgiaHawk says:


    It’s nice to have extra draft picks but more importantly it’s what you do with the draft picks you have.

    Example- Lately the 49ers have been getting lots of comp picks.

    How is their dynasty doing?

    The Seahawks haven’t been getting all those comp picks however they still find the hidden gems, or perhaps more importantly develop them.

    It isn’t going to matter one way or the other with regards to building a dynasty if the Seahawks do or don’t get comp picks for backup qbs.

    That’s a very simplistic way to look at it imo.

    But again any extra picks are always nice.

  87. yankinta says:

    Dude, I’m not talking about drafting well. I’m talking about collecting extra draft picks, as much as possible… you’re being ignorant.. smh..

  88. yankinta says:


    lol you’re comparing 49ers FO to JS/PC FO? I’ve been saying for the last 3 years that 49ers FO (current regime) are not good at evaluating players. No one wanted to believe me because ESPN said otherwise,,

    yes, player development is a key as well but it all starts with getting a chance to draft players….

    And No, we’re not gonna hit every single draft pick,, we’ll miss a few, That’s why it’s CRUCIAL to collect as much draft picks as Possible….

  89. TallyHawk says:

    I’m in agreement with those that don’t want ET returning punts but if he proves to be the best option I won’t be upset about it.

    Yank, what is it about BJ Daniels that has you convinced he can become the eventual back up QB?

  90. PLUHawkFan says:

    To all of you hand wringing over ET possibly returning punts. There are lot’s of arguments on both sides.. good ones. What it boils down to me though is this, do we trust PC and the coaches. Do we not think they consider all the same points we do? Think about that honestly, do we actually have the gall to think we know better then them? If we do we’re in the wrong profession, we should be football coaches, scouts etc.

    For me, PC has completely earned my trust in his evaluations and decisions. Is he perfect? Of course not, NOBODY IS. But between him and JS they are batting 350++. I’ll take that any day of the week.

    As far as Punt Returner goes, may the best man win the job irregardless of who it is. Oh, one last thought. I saw mention of ET having bad hands, did any of us consider (especially with how competitive he is) that being a punt returner is one way to “improve” his ball handling skills? Hmmmm?

    Excited for the preseason game today. Go Hawks!

  91. Ewalters7354 says:

    Punt return won’t help improve his ball skills.That doesn’t even make sense. A punt returner has to be able to track the ball while it’s in the air in a total different way than intercepting a pass.Maybe I took the bait,but I couldn’t resist.

  92. Ewalters7354 says:

    Ball handling skills* my bad

  93. OregonHawk says:

    Doug Baldwin has returned 4 kickoff’s for the ‘Hawks, He returned kickoff’s and punt returns at Stanford

  94. Dukeshire says:

    yankinta – “Extra” picks without drafting well are thoroughly useless. Not unlike yourself.

  95. MikeFromNewJersey says:

    I would use Paul Richardson or Chris Michael as my punt returner.

  96. GeorgiaHawk says:


    How do you think the Seahawks organization was able to become a dominant Super Bowl winner without having extra comp picks from backup qbs?

    The biggest value I see us getting from our back up qbs with regards to dynasty would be if we occasionally use the physical talents of Prior in our offense & use him in practice to prepare for the likes of Newton & Kaep.
    I’m sure we are going to get a few comp picks each year now & the ones that could really make a difference (imo) are the ones we get from players like Smith & Maxwell if we lose them.

    Our potential backup qb comp picks will have little or no barring on any dynasty as I see it, however I hope you are right about finding another gem if we actually do get extra picks from our back up qbs down the road.

  97. yankinta says:

    lol, there’s not point explaining things to ignorant people… smh.

  98. yankinta says:

    GeorgiaHawk,, each and every extra draft picks counts because like I said we will not hit on every single pick. We hit a few and we’ll miss a few. That’s why having as much extra picks is crucial to our Dynasty. it’s Simple Math.

    Yes, we have become a SB winner but to build a Dynasty after our core players getting their first big contract,, getting as much extra picks is crucial. Some may come via Comp picks and others may come via trades.

  99. montanamike2 says:

    I thought that was a good post Georgia.

  100. montanamike2 says:

    I like the idea of someone to play the read option against us in practice.

  101. jboard1 says:

    Can’t we all just get along?! Good lord, football season is among us

  102. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Sure every pick counts but I won’t be disappointed about creating a dynasty here if we don’t get any comp picks from backup qbs in the future.

    Keeping Wilson healthy is priority #1.

    Which brings us back to the o-line again.


  103. I think Pryor sticks too – JS/PC love athletes, and he’s a big-time athlete, just may not be a good enough QB to ever get on the field in the traditional QB role. Still think he may see some plays in a different role this year.

    I think we’ve been over this argument already, but no way do I want to see our most important defensive player back there returning punts. Cost/benefit doesn’t warrant it.

  104. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Thanks montana,

    You are one of the most level headed posters here.
    And funny when we all need a good laugh.

    Always worth the time to read your posts.

  105. Dukeshire says:

    I like how the Troll contradicts himself. Makes for fun reading.

  106. When we acquired Pryor, I made a comment about him running the scout team offence for weeks we play Colin Kaepernick and the 49ers. Can you think of ANY other back-up QB in the NFL who can imitate Kaepernick as well as Pryor can? I seriously believe this was one of the reasons we acquired him.

  107. I’d like to see Pryor returning punts as the 3rd string QB.

  108. ChrisHolmes says:

    I get the argument Yank is making. I remember reading about this… Peter King wrote an article about the Baltimore Ravens (who have amassed more compensatory picks in the past decade than anyone else). You can find the article here:

    Relevant quote from the article, quoting assistant GM Eric DeCosta:

    “The idea behind amassing picks, and especially compensatory picks, is to improve the odds. The Ravens didn’t necessarily have the same philosophy in the late 1990s, DeCosta says, but it has developed over time and been influenced by studying teams around the league.”

    ““We look at the draft as, in some respects, a luck-driven process. The more picks you have, the more chances you have to get a good player,” DeCosta says. “When we look at teams that draft well, it’s not necessarily that they’re drafting better than anybody else, it seems to be that they have more picks. There’s definitely a correlation between the amount of picks and drafting good players.””

    If you subscribe to the idea that hitting on draft picks is largely a luck-based process, then this methodology makes sense. Patriots have been doing this for years and maintaining a playoff contender every year.

    Now, I think we could argue all day about how much of a team’s success in the draft is luck-based and how much if it is due to scouting, philosophy, etc. From an anecdotal perspective, it sure seems like this Seahawks FO has a much better grasp and how to draft quality players than previous regimes.

    There’s no question that more picks = more chances to nab quality players, if that simply means using those draft picks as currency to move up/down the draft and select targeted players. More draft picks = drafting power. You can simply do more on draft day, by either selecting more players, or packaging picks and using them as currency.

    All of that said – every roster in the NFL sits in one of several “states”, and right now Seattle’s roster has reached a specific state: namely, very deep. So amassing a lot of picks doesn’t help Seattle nearly as much as it might help a team like Cleveland or Tampa Bay. Seattle has a very deep roster. If Seattle selects 13 players in the draft in spring, the odds are against half of those players making the squad, due to the current depth of the roster. Thus, you have just wasted draft picks. You’ve blown your currency.

    Bottom line – there’s a lot of variables to this equation. One can attempt to simplify it down to “more picks = better”, but that’s not really the case. One has to take into account current roster depth, and the draft class itself. Having a ton of picks may be mathematically desirable, but if the draft class itself is not deep, then your picks aren’t going to be as strong as if it were a deep class. If you need WR’s in a draft class that is thin at WR, then having 13 picks really isn’t helpful. But if the draft class happens to be deep at a position of need for your team… well, those extra picks can help you hit on a player at a position of need, and that’s a good thing.

    It takes all variables to make the equation work: picks, scouting, ability to coach players up, system fit, finding ways to tap into a player’s unique strengths and talents, and the depth of the draft class itself.

    More picks don’t automatically mean more better players.

    And if anyone needed any convincing, a little draft pick history should suffice. Plenty of teams have walked into the draft with 12 or 13 or 14 picks, and three years later not a single one of those players is playing for the club.

    It isn’t entirely luck, so it isn’t just about straight math homey.

  109. But….. I don’t know how Pryor makes the 53 and we keep 3 TE’s and we keep 6 WR’s. Something has to give.

  110. Nice post ChrisHolmes.

  111. Dukeshire says:

    Chris – That’s all well and good, but the fact remains without drafting well, the picks are useless. Of course more picks is better; no one’s arguing against that. But King punctuates my point:

    “More picks don’t automatically mean more better players.

    And if anyone needed any convincing, a little draft pick history should suffice. Plenty of teams have walked into the draft with 12 or 13 or 14 picks, and three years later not a single one of those players is playing for the club.”

  112. GeorgiaHawk says:

    And Yankinta,

    Duke makes some valid points.

  113. Dukeshire says:

    I’m ignorant.

  114. GeorgiaHawk says:

    And although this team has drafted (overall) about as good as a team can the past few years could they have made it to or win a Super Bowl without the players they didn’t draft?

    I don’t think so.

  115. ChrisHolmes says:


    I am in no way disagreeing with you.

    From a pure mathematical standpoint, more picks = higher chance of picking a good player. This would be especially true if the draft took place in a black box. In a blind draft… you’d want to maximize your picks.

    The draft is obviously not a blind one, so there are other variables to the equation. A team’s skill at identifying potentially successful NFL players obviously factors into the equation.

    The point I think Baltimore’s FO makes is pretty simple: while more draft picks don’t “automatically” mean more better players, they do increase the odds of getting a good player. So why not try and accumulate as many picks as possible? And again, a team doesn’t have to use all their picks on players – they can package and move around, so flexibility is also a factor.

    Yes – if you don’t draft well the picks are “worthless”. But if you don’t draft well, then it doesn’t matter if you had 3 picks or 13. Regardless of picks, you’re on the wrong side of the four-quadrant chart.

    Now… if you can draft well (and I think we’d all agree Seattle’s FO seems pretty good at it) then take your pick: more or less draft picks?

    More would increase your odds of bringing home another Richard Sherman or Russell Wilson…

  116. MoSeahawk12 says:

    The good news is that wanker has never had anything explained.

  117. Dukeshire says:

    Chris – Of course.

  118. I don’t think teams are allowed to trade comp. picks. But you can trade your own and still have the comps left.

  119. ChrisHolmes says:

    “could they have made it to or win a Super Bowl without the players they didn’t draft?”

    Not just the drafts – but look at the FA’s they’ve brought in and the trades they made?

    Lynch – trade
    Harvin – trade
    Avril – FA
    Bennett – FA

    And drafting… Start with ET and work your way from there.

    Seattle’s FO has been really good at identifying guys that they think can do special things for their team, and utilizing those guys in unique ways; maximizing their talent, getting guys to buy-in to the system, and putting them in positions to win individual battles.

    It’s a whole team concept, really. Does anyone, for one second, think that Tom Coughlin or Lovie Smith wins a Superbowl with this team? Pete’s the perfect coach for these guys. Yeah, they’re great players – no question – but Pete has figured out how to maximize their abilities. That is no small task.

  120. montanamike2 says:

    I believe we have the most picks this year than in the last 3. Is this draft very deep? At what positions?

  121. yankinta says:

    GeorgiaHawk,, I didn’t say More picks automatically mean more better players.

    Giving more picks to this FO is not the same as giving more picks to any other FO in the league. This FO can use more picks MUCH better than anyone.

    This FO is different. This FO do things that are unconventional. Which is hard for some people to understand. This FO can find gems in the late round CONSISTENTLY… which is unheard of…

  122. montanamike2 says:

    Our late round gems are amazing, first rounders not so much.

  123. Ray_Maines says:

    Statistically there isn’t much difference between the first player chosen in the draft at any given position and the second or even third player chosen at that position in terms of NFL success (# of Pro-bowls, length of career, HofF, etc.).

    Meaning that trading down for more picks is almost always a good thing. And YES(!), you have to use your picks wisely.

  124. montanamike2 says:

    I really like how we screw everyone’s mock drafts up by just going and getting who we want regardless of where they’re supposed to go. I hope Michael is as advertized, AP like. Another physical back would be awesome.

  125. doubledink says:

    Yank, “I’ve been saying for the last 3 years that…”

    For the record you haven’t even been on here for 2 years yet. Your first post was Aug 12, 2012 endorsing Russell Wilson AFTER he was named the starter. Just sayin.

  126. “Our late round gems are amazing, first rounders not so much.”

    We should trade away our firsts for a bunch of 6 & 7s next year.

  127. doubledink says:

    STTBM, my comment previous thread on you being the resident O-line troll was tongue-in-cheek. It wasn’t meant as an insult. I should have clarified.

  128. TallyHawk says:

    I think we can all agree this FO has done a good job drafting. To me where they have excelled is in the development of the players they’ve drafted. Their ability to identify a players strengths and put them in positions to maximize those strengths is what sets them apart, IMO.

  129. Dukeshire says:

    double- Please don’t confuse him with facts.

  130. doubledink–Ok, no worries. Ive gone and done the same thing, and it sucks to be misunderstood. Were good.

    I have no problem with anyone who disagrees with me–many of my opinions go against the grain. I also have no problem discussing or even arguing my opinion with those who disagree. But I do get frustrated when some outright namecall, or passive-aggressively insult me rather than debate point by point. And it gets old to be told Im wrong simply because the majority disagree with me; thats a logical fallacy.

    We all have our strident opinions, and every one of us has had an opinion dissected and logically destroyed by someone else at one point or another. I know its happened to me a few times, and Ive done the same to others tons of times. But it shouldnt be a personal attack to disagree…I know I’d like to meet everyone on here, even Yankinta. I’d even buy him a beer despite him being underage lol!

  131. GeorgiaHawk says:

    So after all that you end your post with a personal attack?


    I think you have the few times & the tons of times backwards.

  132. Georgia–That most certainly was not a personal attack. There’s nothing wrong with being a kid–I was one once, just like you were lol! He pretty much admitted it was true anyhow. I was only teasing him a bit. Plus, I was dead serious–I’d buy anyone on here a beer and chat with them, it would be awesome.

    There havent been very many times when someone has bothered to point by point use facts/stats/logic/analysis to debunk one of my opinions. But the times its happened have been pretty epic, I must say.

    I try to adhere to the saying Dont Believe Everything You Think. Im passionate in my opinions, but Im also willing to change my mind with new information. Im just not going to change my mind when the counter-argument consists of “Well, youre not a coach” or “Most people disagree with you so you must be wrong”, or “The Seahawks won the SB so the line must have been competent” lol!

  133. GeorgiaHawk says:

    When did Yankinta say he was a kid?

    Are you assuming this?

    If you are going to constantly whine about being personally attacked by others why do you continue to think it’s ok for you to do it?

    Just doesn’t make any sense.

  134. Georgia–Awhile back, I called him out for it, and he pretty much refused to touch the issue, in my mind The Bagpipe Didnt Say No. If you didnt see it, it was probably during your long absence; you missed quite a bit.

    I cut him quite a bit of slack because he’s still in k-12, and its not an attack to say the dude is underage for beer. Just as its not an attack to say I obsess over the line, or Bobbyk geeks out over the JFK asasination; both those things are true. If you think my teasing him a bit is picking on him, Im sorry; it wasnt meant that way, and I thought it pointed but rather gentle. Again, he gets cut a lot more slack from me than he otherwise would, and I think the same is true of others.

    Its fine that you constantly stand up for him, even when he’s being deliberately annoying and ridiculous and trying to pick fights, but put your fists down, Im not attacking him.

    I would appreciate it if you would stop attacking me every time I reference a conversation on this blog you dont happen to remember; your memory is about as good as mine lately.

  135. Seriously, the jousting at windmills is getting old. No need to get all Don Quixote on me…We used to have some pretty good discussions, And I used to like arguing with you over stuff. But lately you just want to pick a fight, especially with anyone who gets tired of Y-boys Shtick.

    If you want to get ticked at someone for attacking the dude, there are plenty of others who are much more pointed in their words.

  136. GeorgiaHawk says:

    The bag pipe?

    There you go again proving my point.

  137. Duke you can’t be ignorant because certain people never call names…. well 95% of the time

  138. Georgia–The reference is to a story by Shel Silversteen. Sorry youre so ignorant, but its par for the course…

  139. Dukeshire says:

    xcman – Thanks for the laugh.

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