Seahawks Insider

Morning Links: In Sherman, Gary Payton sees something he recognizes

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on July 21, 2014 at 1:07 am with 39 Comments »
July 21, 2014 1:07 am

Good morning.

Training camp is here this week. Thursday, players are scheduled to show up. Friday, training camp starts. The camp schedule:

Date Time
July 25 10 a.m.
July 26 10 a.m.
July 27 10 a.m.
July 29 10 a.m.
July 30 10 a.m.
July 31 10 a.m.
Aug. 1 10 a.m.
Aug. 2 1 p.m.
Aug. 4 11 a.m.
Aug. 5 10 a.m.
Aug. 10 10 a.m.
Aug. 12 10 a.m.


This morning, single-game tickets go on sale at 10. Fans will be limited to purchasing a total of four tickets. From the team:

One-thousand upper level single-game tickets per home game will be available at the CenturyLink Field NW Box Office. Fans may purchase a total of four single-game tickets per person. Beginning at 8 a.m., fans will enjoy a live DJ, inflatables, and Blitz and Sea Gals will be on site. The Seahawks Pro Shop will also be open and will include a one-day only sidewalk sale.

Additionally, 650 bleacher seats, standing-room only and scattered single-game tickets will be available for each home game through or Ticketmaster by phone at 800-745-3000, beginning at 10 a.m.

A limited number of tickets have been held for members of the Blue Pride season ticket wait list. These fans are currently being notified to purchase tickets on a priority basis.

Sunday, Richard Sherman held his celebrity softball game at Safeco Field. Among the folks in the press box was our John McGrath, who took his usual engaging tact when writing. At the game was perhaps Seattle’s pre-eminent trash-talker, Gary Payton. McGrath compared Sherman and Payton, brothers in boastfulness. From McGrath:

When Payton sees Sherman, he sees a football version of himself about 15 or 20 years ago: A lockdown defender whose drive to compete was enhanced by the ability to give better than he got during verbal skirmishes.

“He’s old school,” Payton said of Sherman. “He thinks he can get in somebody’s head. … If you can talk it and walk it and you can do it, that’s what he’s been doing. I like that, because that’s what I did in basketball.”

When Payton played, wars of words were commonplace in the NBA. Michael Jordan and Larry Bird might have been beloved by fans, but they were masters of the same head-game tactics that have turned Sherman into a pariah beyond Seattle.

“They don’t want trash talking in any of our sports,” Payton said. “A lot of these commissioners are trying to change up things. They don’t want kids talking crazy. I think it’s part of the game.”


> There was a big turnout for Sherman’s softball game, with 22,000 in the stands and former Sonics, Seahawks and others playing. Among the players was Kobe Bryant. When asked why he participated, Bryant said because “(Sherman is) psycho like me.”

> A photo gallery from the softball game.

> Jim Moore of 710 ESPN with 10 reasons the Seahawks will repeat.

> ESPN’s John Clayton says there will be a big battle for the Seahawks’ big receiver spot in camp. Candidates: Sidney Rice, Chris Matthews, Ricardo Lockette and rookie Kevin Norwood. For me, Matthews will have to do the most to catch up in camp since injuries limited him during OTAs and minicamp.

Also, Clayton writes he expects teams to pick up the pace offensively in order to get more snaps. If that’s the case, the Seahawks will already have a built-in counter with their tendency to use a broad defensive line rotation.

> This came out a few days back, but, in case you missed it, SI’s Greg Bishop recently spent time with Mike Holmgren. Lots of interesting stuff in there, including Holmgren leaving the Seahawks’ Week 2 game last year against San Francisco, in the first quarter, in part because he was upset with the cheer Pete Carroll received.

“All of a sudden, I hear this big cheer,” he says. “This roar. And here comes Pete Carroll running out of the locker room.”

The roar bothered Holmgren more than he expected. It bothered him not because fans seemed excited to lose their voices for Carroll, the man with Holmgren’s old job title, that of Seahawks coach. It bothered Holmgren because for all the years he spent immersed in professional football, he could hardly remember a crowd reacting that way for him.

> Peter King has the Seahawks atop his pre-camp edition of the “Fine 15.”  That ranking includes this interesting line:

3. San Francisco. If I trusted Colin Kaepernick as much as I trust Russell Wilson, 1 and 3 would be reversed.

> Jeffri Chadiha at ESPN calls the St. Louis Rams a “sleeper” for the upcoming season and says the Rams are poised to take a huge leap forward.


Leave a comment Comments → 39
  1. CDHawkFan says:

    Is this the same Jeffri Chadiha that said;

    Give Pete Carroll about one year before he starts realizing the mistake he just made. By that time, he’ll be wondering why he resigned from USC to become head coach of the Seattle Seahawks.


    Regardless of how optimistic some Carroll supporters may be about this news, the man is going to fail in the NFL.


    The players also won’t be embracing him like they have in college. Before you know it, that constant smile that has become Carroll’s trademark will be harder and harder to find


    Now that they’ve drawn the Seattle Seahawks in Super Bowl XLVIII, the Broncos are looking even more like a team about to claim its third championship in franchise history.


    For all the great things Seattle has accomplished this season, the Seahawks are arriving at the wrong place at the wrong time


    There’s no question the Seahawks have a great defense: relentless pass rush, speed and athleticism at linebacker and aggressive ball hawks on the back end. What they don’t have, however, is an offense that is dynamic enough to exploit a Broncos defense that has been depleted by injuries

  2. SandpointHawk says:

    Nice CDHawkFan, nice work indeed…Welcome back Todd…

  3. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Good Thomas pic.

    Chadihe Chadiha ha ha ha ha.

    Lol CDHawkFan.

  4. djbargelt says:

    CDHawkFan: Great post on that airhead Chadiha

    Todd: Welcome back – the natives have been restless

    Holmgren quote: Geez Coach, sour grapes or what !!!

    Peter Kings quote: What we all know about Kap vs RW – Trust in Russ!

  5. Southendzone says:

    Hmm Peter King currently thinks Hawks best, Pack 2nd, and SF 3rd.

    However if he trusted Cap as much as Wilson, 1st and 3rd would be reversed.

    How would him feeling better about Capernick make the Hawks fall below Green Bay? That is illogical.

  6. montanamike2 says:

    Not sure if this will warrant a suspension, it doesn’t seem too serious:

    Poor Holmie got his feelings hurt, he seems a bit biased.

  7. montanamike2 says:

    I think the Rams will leapfrog the Whiners this year.

  8. sherminator says:

    I think the Holmgren story is being mis-interpreted. Holmgren didn’t remember hearing the cheers because he was too immersed in coaching. That was a big part of the story – that he missed smelling some of the roses along the way because he is obsessed with being a coach.

  9. HawkFromDay1 says:

    Niners primed for a crash. 3 NFC championships and no ring? That kinda train just doesn’t keep going in today’s NFL.

    Rams as a sleeper? No no no. A sleeper is a team you don’t realize will be good. The Rams are an excellent team and would probably win at least 3 of the 8 NFL divisions. Weren’t they 5-1 in the best division in football last year?

    Holmgren – Love you dude, but your teams were based on minimizing risk while playing with a virtually impossible level of precision. In other words: boring. No one shrieked for you because they were afraid they’d get detention. You brought in college prima donnas you thought you could “fix” and bought high-priced, aged-out free agents – not they kind of guys that inspire a visceral sense that “he’s one of us.” Pete’s teams are based on the inherent chaos of football – they embrace, encourage and create the entropy the universe naturally degenerates toward. He brings in the hungry, huddled masses – guys it would be morally objectionable to not get behind. Pete plays the game the way we see and know the world to be – chaotic and emotional, randomly assigning reward and tragedy regardless of an individual’s sin or grace. It’s the postmodern era of football.

  10. Wow, Todd, talk about taking a quote out of context to twist the meaning! Sheesh, its obvious that Holmgren wasnt upset that Carrol was being cheered–he was upset that he cant remember being cheered like that here, and he WANTS it. He’s forgotten too much, he forgot to smell the roses and now he wants back in.

    And Im no longer a fan of Holmgren, nor did I appreciate this particular MMBQ piece. In fact, I thought it was one of the most poorly written sob-story piles of BS Ive ever read.

    However, no need to stir up controversy and demonize Holmy with a partially quoted anecdote.

  11. Holmgren forgets he destroyed a playoff-caliber team with a fine passing attack one piece at a time, and spent four years with a team eerily similar on offense to Ground Chuck–only with a weak defense. He made so many mistakes as GM (not just in the draft, but in firing good players for silly emotional reasons)that it seemed the team would never get off the ground…

    It took him five years to make the SB. It took him four years of hell to get decent. Contrast that with Carrol; Carrol got us to the playoffs and beat the world champs in a very fun game to watch right off the bat. He seemed to stumble the year after that, but then had us dropping 50 points on the NINERS! And we WON a SB four years into it….

    Sorry, Holmgren, but you sit firmly behind Chuck Knox as THIRD best coach in Seattle’s history, mostly because of your stubbornness and outsize (not healthy) ego. And your many, many stupid decisions as GM. But worst of all, for your Hubris in insisting you did everything right and would still draft Jerramy Stevens.

    You can go to hell for that one.

  12. Hard to say if the Rams will be the team they’ve been supposed to be for a couple years now. They’ve had enough high draft picks to rebuild the Nineties Cowboys.

    Same with the Cards. We know the D is scary, but losing Dansby and Washington will hurt. And Palmer aint what he once was. However, with decent young backs, and Fitz and Floyd, they will move the ball–even on us.

    Seattle is still the team to beat until proven otherwise, no matter how much East Coast and Cali Media hate that fact. Deal, America….

  13. yankinta says:

    lol,CDHF,, loved it. Jeffri Chadiha is a bigger Idiot than JAWs but not as big as Pete Prisco. But they’re all Pretty Big IDIOTS… smh…

  14. ChrisHolmes says:

    @CDHawkFan Now that was an awesome post. Chadiha… suck it.

    I read the whole MMQB piece this weekend when it came out; kind of disappointed that it was twisted out of context here to make it look like Holmgren has sour grapes. The very next line in that article, regarding the cheering is, “He’s sure it happened.” He just couldn’t remember it, because, as STTBM said, he was getting too wrapped up in the job, the losses, and not enjoying the journey.

    Contrary to STTBM, I thought the piece was really good. I thought it was a very honest and open look at what it’s like to go from coaching a Superbowl team to being a retired guy working at a food bank. In fact, I actually was quite shocked to read that article, and to see the stuff they were able to tease out of Holmgren… Not sure I’d have been that honest with press.

    That transition, from coach to retirement, has to be REALLY hard; I can’t imagine any of us handling it well. I know I wouldn’t. You do something you love for that long, something that feeds a need like that, and then suddenly you’re fired and “retired”? I just can’t imagine that. There has to be a gaping hole now. I’m sure it would be difficult for any of us if we were in that situation…

    I still love the Holmgren years; have no animosity toward him as a coach at all. He did it his way, and we came within a couple of flags of winning against Pittsburgh. If we’d have won that Superbowl, pretty sure everyone’s harsh opinions would be a bit different.

    Moot point anyway; we have a great coach – the best one we’ve ever had, and the best team we’ve ever had. And a SB win. It’s all good. No need to trash the past. Nothing to gain from that.

  15. doubledink says:

    Well said, ChrisHolmes.

    Something I appreciated in that article is how his wife Cathy doesn’t pull any punches with him. She seems to have had a firmer grasp on the big picture all along, unseduced by the fame and glory, knowing that those things don’t satisfy the real needs of her man.

  16. jawpeace says:

    My Holmgren autograph and picture of him is not going anywhere. I think the lesson Holmgren shared is something everyone needs to take to heart. The joy of the journey can be lost if you get to focused on the next goal. Stop and smell the roses.

  17. Excellent points, Chris, and without coming off as a grouchy d-bag like I did. I need to eat some breakfast BEFORE I OD on coffee (Decaf) lol!

    Im sure Holmgren is having a difficult transition. I just have no sympathy for a guy who demanded so much money from Cleveland, a guy who is so wealthy and so well connected he could be darned near saving the World, rather than moping about accomplishing very little.

    The sad fact is, Holmgrens way is no longer relevant in the NFL. Like so many coaches before him, he stopped innovating, and kept doing “what used to work” even though it began to fail time and time again…One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome. That is what Holmgren did his last couple years.

    While he isnt really insane, he’s crazy if he thinks he could step back in as HC of the Cowboys, say, and run his tired old system the same old way, calling the same plays in the same situations, and have any more success than he did his final two years.

    Its over. He’s no longer a good coach, he’s a guy who USED to be a good coach.

  18. seahawksteven777 says:

    Apologies if this has been shared on here already but check this out:

    Apparently, there will be more emphasis on calling defensive pass interference/holding. Being that Seahawks play so aggressive, this is not a thing we want to hear.

    Honestly, the NFL might as well be flag football if they are going to keep pushing the rules towards offenses.

  19. yankinta says:

    seahawksteven777,, well that’s not necessarily true because when the league showed the officials examples of these plays that should have been called with this new emphasis,, there were ZERO Hawks plays….

    You can read what Mike Pereira wrote about it here,, :)

  20. Ray_Maines says:

    Another thing to consider is that Pete Carroll has gone to great lengths to include the fans in his program, and all of us 12’s have embraced our role as noise makers and fans. Mike Holmgren was just as popular during his tenure but fans weren’t so overtly supportive then.

    The reminder I take from this though is to (sherminator) “smell the roses”, or to (ChrisHolmes) “enjoy the journey”. We’ve all seen the Facebook thing about the last wishes of a dying man NEVER being “Dang, I wish I could have spent more time at the office.”

  21. montanamike2 says:

    Like i said yesterday, i think the new rules will hurt Browner especially. Harbaugh will cry and get some PI penalties on us but i don’t know how much the Refs are tired of his antics.

  22. montanamike2 says:

    Good point about the Rams having boatloads of picks from that RGknee trade.

  23. The Rams would be a contender if they didn’t go with Journeyman Sam Bradford as their QB.

    You guys are unfairly killing Holmgren. He’s only human and those thoughts are only natural. If you want to bash him, bash him on how he only won because he had a weak schedule and strong home field advantage. It’s because of him that fans spent years thinking the Seahawks couldn’t win on the East Coast. The reality was his teams, including the 2005 teams, were inflated because of the schedule and home field. With Carroll’s Seahawks, we see good teams win anyplace and anywhere. If I didn’t believe that, I wouldn’t have shelled out a mortgage payment (or 3 depending on where you live in the country) to watch the Super Bowl. I certainly wasn’t going to shell out a dime to watch them lose in Detroit.

  24. RDPoulsbo says:

    Damn…didn’t get any tickets today.

    I also don’t think the emphasis on illegal contact will effect the D as much as most people think. Yes, there’s some press going on but it’s still a Cover-3 shell. Most of the contact at the line is a single stab to disrupt timing at the snap. Otherwise, it’s pretty much tight zone coverage and contact is incidental throughout the route.

  25. RDPoulsbo says:

    The Rams would be good if they had a decent o-line, but they’re still looking for a guy to replace Orlando Pace. I also believe Bradford is a good QB, but he’s not nearly as mobile as Wilson. Both the Hawks and Rams have had very bad o-lines in recent years, but the difference has been Wilson’s escapability while Bradford gets pounded into the turf repeatedly.

  26. montanamike2 says:

    Good post Pabs, those were some valid points. PC did get the 12’s whipped into a frenzy and it’s true that teams fear us anywhere anytime, but we’re especially scary at home now. Teams that used to look at the schedule and count us as a probable win don’t anymore.

  27. Ray_Maines says:

    The LOB rule? Seriously?

    RW throws a pretty good deep ball. I’m looking forward to hamstrung defensive backs trying to deal with Percy Harvin or Paul Richardson. Tell me how some 5’9″ guy, under officiating scrutiny, is going to deal with Sidney Rice or Kevin Norwood? You don’t think Angry DB or Jermaine Kearse will flourish under these rules? Game on.

    And for another thing, I don’t think the LOB are one trick ponies, and even if they are that one trick isn’t contact downfield. For example, the lick KC put on D. Thomas in the first Qtr. of the SB wasn’t “illegal contact.” This is the Legion Of Boom, not the Legion Of Holding.

  28. montanamike2 says:

    We were talking the other day whether Wilson would win on another team, i totally believe if he was on the Rams they would be a serious contender.

  29. montanamike2 says:

    My favorite hit of all time.

  30. ChrisHolmes says:

    Yeah, that’s the takeaway I got from the Holmgren piece, which I really do think is so important, and that’s to smell the roses/enjoy the journey. This is something I really appreciate about PC, is that he (at least appears) to really enjoy the moment as it’s happening. That’s something rare, it seems, in this profession.

    And I don’t mean to sound like Holmgren shouldn’t be criticized; STTBM is right on that count – he got paid a lot in Cleveland and didn’t produce. But I was not surprised at that result. Holmgren’s prowess always was in one very singular area: passing offense. That was his specialty, and that is where he excelled.

    But he had no mind for the defensive side of the ball, and his ability to evaluate talent was dreadful. That 2005 Superbowl team… would have been no match for the 2013/2014 Seahawks. Holmgren maximized that offense. I believe he got everything out of those guys he possibly could have; they overachieved a bit, I think. But we didn’t have much of a defense, and our receivers were unreliable at best (I find it rather amazing, even today, that we were the #1 offense that season).

    Holmgren overreached his capabilities. We saw it first hand in Seattle; he just wasn’t a good talent evaluator, and he was too loyal to the guys he drafted. In Clieveland, his shortcomings as a talent guy were magnified.

    If he would have stuck to coaching offense, Holmgren might have won a couple more superbowls with someone (I still think he would have been awesome in Dallas with Romo and those Wr’s, and someone like Wade Phillips running the Defense).

  31. yankinta says:

    montanamike2,, RW would make any other Top 20 team a Serious Contender…

  32. montanamike2 says:
  33. montanamike2 says:

    It blows my mind that year 3 is when QB’s usually make a jump in their progress.

  34. Ray_Maines says:

    I suppose Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers have weakness too although I don’t follow them or really care, but I’m encouraged that RW is as good as he is and yet has correctable flaws. Heck yes, give me some of that year three improvement.

    And please God, improve the O-Line so Russell doesn’t have to duck and run on every pass play. Give the boy some healthy receivers, an improved line, monster running backs and we’ll see time of possession and scoring numbers that most NFL fans could only dream about.

    About 96 hours ’til Training Camp. Go ‘Hawks!

  35. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Agree, Wilson on any other team in the NFC West would win the division & have a good chance at winning the Super Bowl.

    The other teams simple don’t have an elite QB like we do.

    Top five, soon to be top three, & headed for the top.

    In just two years Wilson is already the Seahawks best QB ever.
    With his supporting cast the sky is the limit for Wilson.

  36. doubledink says:

    These new rule enforcements will affect other defenses (read less talented) more than they will the LOB. That means higher productivity for the offense.

  37. Seattle will have some calls go against them that will be frustrating. In that, they will not be alone, though its entirely possible they get made an example out of as revenge for daring to win a SB against Manning. However, it wont destroy the D or even make us lose games, and here’s why I think that: Just as Chancellor adjusted to the rules emphasis and got a couple fines at first, then once he became acclimated began to ratchet up his play with CLEAN hits, so too will PC’s Defense, and the LOB in particular, have a few bumps but then learn to push it to the limit, WITHIN the rules.

    PC has shown a track record of making sure his guys can play within the rules (for the most part) and play HARD. This illegal contact will be no different.

    But Im not looking forward to the bumps in the road–I might blow a gasket lol!

  38. I like Holmgren. He took us further than we had ever been before. I wish he had cared more about defense though. He also liked to get too careful on offense when we had a lead, and try to “run out the clock” in the 3rd quarter sometimes. Or so it seemed.

    I wish him well in his life, and he has lots of cash and a wife to tell him what to do, so there is no feeling sorry for him.

    Walking out in the first half of the Seahawks game seems weird. Why even go?

    And I really don’t enjoy any of Holmgrens work on Seattle radio. I feel the same with Dungy and Cowher on tv. I just don’t care what they have to say. They are yesterdays NFL news. But that’s not being mean to those guys, I just think we could cut the NFL talking heads by 50% or so and not miss any of them.

    Chadiha saying the Rams are going to break out is surely a curse for them, since he gets everything exactly back areswards wrong.

  39. rramstad says:

    Yeah, there are many things I very much liked about Mike Holmgren as head coach, but one thing that PC and JS definitely do differently is the way they handle the fans. Famously, when some players were discussing how some change would be perceived by the fans, Mike said “(f word) the fans” in the locker room. This leaked out, and created a minor controversy. PC has always told the fans that he appreciates their passion and has been consistent. MH was definitely two faced about the fans, giving us a game ball for the false start game vs the Giants, but behind the scenes mocking and ripping into anyone who seemed to be overly concerned about the fans.

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