Seahawks Insider

Morning Links: Babineaux says Lynch ‘wants to be paid’

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on June 14, 2014 at 10:36 am with 88 Comments »
June 14, 2014 10:50 am

Good morning.

As we head toward Tuesday’s start of mandatory minicamp, another voice has said Marshawn Lynch is not happy with his contract.

Former Seahawk Jordan Babineaux said Lynch “wants to be paid.”

“I don’t see Marshawn walking away just yet,” Babineaux said on the NFL Network. “He’s working on his training. He’s doing the normal things that he always does. We actually went out last week when I was in Seattle and he and I had a conversation and had a drink. The bottom line is, it is about the money. When a guy starts producing the way Marshawn has been producing, he wants to be paid.”

Also of note is Babineaux, a former Lynch teammate, saying he was in Seattle with Lynch. That means Lynch was in town while OTAs were going on, but still chose not to participate. Unlike minicamp, OTAs are voluntary.

Links:

> Our Dave Boling says the offensive line can take a significant step forward simply by staying healthy.

> Hall of Fame coach Chuck Knoll died Friday. He was 82.

> Danny O’Neil at 710 ESPN says if Lynch stages a staredown, the Seahawks can’t blink.

> It took a good chunk of the season, but Cliff Avril sees the benefits of the defensive line rotation.

> ESPN with a feature on Steven Hauschka.

> You can vote on the top 10 Seahawks in history at ESPN.

> The Chiefs whacked cornerback Brandon Flowers yesterday to save cap space. Flowers, 28, made the Pro Bowl last year.

> The 49ers don’t see a sophomore slump on the horizon for standout safety Eric Reid.

> A roundup of observations on the Cardinals’ offseason work.

> The St. Louis Post-Dispatch says the Rams need to improve their offense, not just their defense.

Leave a comment Comments → 88
  1. tchristensen says:

    I don’t see the team caving in to :Lynch unless it were to increase his pay for the upcoming season by a million or so but that would set a precedent I don’t believe the team should set. This is a no win situation.

  2. AzulVerde says:

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Lynch and so appreciate his work for the team. That being said I also think he probably has outperformed his contract. However, though I’m not pro-management necessarily, I do think he should honor his contract. Now there is absolutely “NOTHING” wrong with asking for a raise, especially since he “has” outperformed his contract. He did sign a contract though, so “ask for the raise” Marshawn, by all means. Maybe the Hawks will do something to sweeten the pot a little. DO NOT hold out though, that is not being a man of your word and honoring the contract you signed. That not only sends the wrong signal to the organization (i.e.: I’m greedy and self centered or not team oriented), but puts both the you and management in a bad position.

    Ask for the Raise Marshawn, nothing at all wrong with that. I trust our organization enough to say that they will be stand-up about it. They will either say, we can restructure your deal in a way you get a tad more upfront money, or they will say we’re sorry but with our cap situation and the need to resign Wilson we just can’t. Either way, be a man of your word and play out your contract. It’s not like the team has snubbed you in any way shape or form, and you have been paid fairly well in market terms for a RB, even if you have slightly outperformed your contract.

    MyNicklesWorth

  3. Macabrevity says:

    Marshawn deserves more based on production and is not going to get it next year, so I don’t begrudge him this at all. The reality of the situation is that we’ll have to move on without him earlier than expected if he’s indeed trying to leverage the franchise.

    RIP Chuck Knoll – Great coach from a great era of football.

    As for the Rams improving their offense… not gonna happen as long as they have Brian ‘the QB toaster’ Schottenheimer in anyway associated with the offensive side of the ball.

  4. Singularitarian says:

    I gotta say it must suck to be a running back in today’s nfl. Your about the best at your position, and you got a safety, a corner, and an unproven wide reciever all making close to double your salary. There is no way that anyone has been more important than ML the last few years, and he takes more of a toll on his body as well. That being said he really doesn’t have a lot of leverage right now as he wouldn’t get much more money anywhere else after this year. He’s probably came to the realization he’ll be cut next year and he’s not happy about it

  5. Singularitarian says:

    Throw in talk of a committee approach this year and I can understand the frustration

  6. Singularitarian says:

    It would definitely suck if he got into the mentality of ” %=*# it, I’ll be off the team next year no matter what I do”, and that mentality seeped into his game

  7. AZBubba71 says:

    I love Lynch and do not blame him (yet) for attempting to leverage the Seahawks before training camp. I’ll only be concerned about this if Lynch refuses to report once training camp begins.

    1.) Lynch is among the top five paid running backs in the NFL.

    2.) Lynch just finished year 2 of a 4 year deal that he was more than happy to sign his name to only 24 months ago.

    3.) Running backs are expendable assets in today’s NFL (comparable to LBs on the defensive side of the ball in the Seahawks structure).

    4.) The Seahawks have competent backups with Michael and Turbin waiting for their chance.

    5.) With a healthy Percy Harvin, additional WRs, and an ever maturing Russell Wilson, the Seahawks could throw a little bit more this year to alleviate the running game without Lynch.

    6.) Negotiating with Lynch would set a horrible precedent for Carroll/Schneider and the Seahawks. More players would attempt to do the same thing after experiencing success (winning the Super Bowl). With the salary cap in place, that is unacceptable and makes long term planning nearly impossible for Schneider.

    Management should ignore Lynch until he doesn’t report for training camp. At that point, I would not fine him (those fines are often revoked once the player returns anyway) if he holds out…merely let him make a decision about either reporting to camp or retiring. A trade to a non contending AFC team would also be a slight possibility if they made a tremendous offer (he could go back to Buffalo, or play for Jacksonville, Oakland, etc.)

  8. I wouldn’t nessisarily call Lynch expendable. Unlike other rb’s, I think the Hawks need Lynch more then Lynch needs the Hawks. Can’t really instill our bruising tempo without Lynch, even Pete said so at the town meeting. Do the a Hawks really want to gamble a chance at another championship with Micheal? I think there’s too much on the line to do that.

  9. AZBubba71 says:

    I really do love the way Lynch runs. He has made some of the most impressive, creative and tough two yard runs that I have ever seen during the past four seasons (when other RBs would have taken a two to four yard loss).

    However, the offensive line should be better (an in shape Carpenter, a more experienced Bowie/Bailey, a healthy Unger, and Britt. It may be time for the Seahawks to see if they have drafted well at the RB position (a #2 for Michael and a #3 for Turbin).

  10. banosser says:

    Marshon made about $15M in Buffalo and counting his $5M for this upcoming season he will have made ~$22M in Seattle… He is currently the 5th highest paid RB in the NFL.. at a time when that position is quickly becoming devalued… Adrian Petersen is WAY over paid ($24M in the next 2 yrs) LeSean McCoy will have a near $12M cap hit in ’15 (we’ll see what happens there after this yr) Forte has a nearly $9M cap hit next yr with only $1M in dead money.. He won’t see that money and we’ll see if he survives this yr ($7.9M cap $2M dead) In reality Marshon you and your agent agreed to a 3 yr $22M contract with $17M guaranteed (Frank Gore is on the last yr of a 3yr/$19.2M contract with 0 guaranteed).. You were allowed to be the free spirit that you are and were large part of a SB championship team, and I hope you return this yr.. but do what your heart tells you.. sit out the entire preseason if you want.. then come in for one more Beastmode yr.. or check out and get cut.. Perhaps Bradley would trade a 6th/5th for you?

  11. banosser says:

    chuck_easton
    JUNE 13, 2014 AT 7:46 AM
    “TruBlu,

    That’s all well and good, but you don’t pay a player for what they have done in the past. You pay them for future performance.

    Lynch is coming to the end of his career. He isn’t going to get another big contract when this one ends either by Lynch being released next season or when it runs out at the end of 2015. Most likely the former.

    The team would have to rip up his current contract and give a new one entirely. The league doesn’t just allow for a player to be slipped a few ‘extra bucks’.

    If the team rips up his contract today the full remaining 3M from the original signing bonus goes on the Cap immediately. So before they ‘slip a little more guaranteed money’ they start with a 3M cap hit.

    Say they re-write the contract and give Lynch another 6M bonus, 1M guaranteed salary this year and have an non guaranteed contract of 6M next year. Marshawn gets 7M cash instead of the 5.5M his current contract will pay him for this year. So, that is an extra 1.5M in Marshawn’s pocket this year.

    What does the team get? This year’s cap hit would stay at 7M. If Marshawn played next year the cap hit would again be 9M. But if the team followed through with the apparent plan and cut him next year the dead money would be 3M for the team and not the 1.5M it would be under the current contract.

    How is that good business for the team?”

  12. jawpeace says:

    Here was my top ten list I made at the Espn article.
    1. Walter Jones- 9x Pro Bowl, 2000′s All Decade Team, Best OT of All-Time, HOF
    2. Steve Largent- 7x Pro Bowl, 80′s All Decade Team, 13, 089 Rec. Yds., 100 TD’s, HOF
    3. Tez Kennedy- 8x Pro Bowl, 90′s All Decade Team, ’92 DPOY, HOF
    4. Kenny Easley- 5x Pro Bowl, ROY, ’83 DPOY, 80′s All Decade Team
    5. Jacob Green- 2x Pro Bowl,116 Sacks unofficial, sacks didn’t become official stat till ’82
    6. Mack Strong Whole career with the Hawks and blocked for multiple 1000 yard backs
    7. Dave Brown 62 career ints ranked 7th all-time at his retirement, and 50 Hawk ints remains team record.
    8. Shaun Alexander NFL MVP in 2005. NFL’s 2000 All-Decade team. Career over 10,000 all purpose yards.
    9. Dave Kreig/ mud bone 19 seasons total, 81.5 life time passer rating
    10 Joe Nash The last die hard, Seahawks-record 218 career games over 15 seasons. 47.5 sacks

  13. AZBubba71 says:

    No Curt Warner on that list?

  14. CDHawkFan says:

    Reid needs to worry about being concussion free, 2 in your rookie year isn’t good.

  15. I believe Michael will become an effective runner, but his game seems more based on quickness and shiftiness than ML. If PC wants to continue to base the offense around that tough, bruising running style, we should have drafted Eddie Lacy instead of Michael. Lacy seems to me a more logical successor to Lynch where we would still miss Beast Mode but would miss him less.

  16. jawpeace says:

    Azbub, it is only supposed to be ten players. So I was torn on where to put him. I thought about dropping Kreig out and putting in Warner at #10. But having one RB on the list I wanted to recognize a QB. So who would you take out to put Warner in?

  17. T.D. Knee!! Thanks for the great blog work this off season. Hope yer healing well. You’ll be back to shuckin’ and jiving in no time. :)

  18. Singularitarian says:

    I would have at least 4 current players in my top 10 seahawks of all time list. That would be earl, sherm, Wilson, and ML. I don’t need to wait, they are in. Kam and Bane could make it

  19. Southendzone says:

    LYnch retiring is hella unlikely. U think he gonna give up 5.5 m plus pay back half of his signing bonus (3m)?

  20. 1. Walter Jones
    2. Steve Largent
    3. Kenney Easley
    4. Cortez Kennedy
    5. Shawn Alexander
    6. Jacob Green
    7. Dave Brown
    8. Matt Hasslebeck
    9. John L. Williams
    10. Joe Nash

  21. Lynch was a star when we signed his last contract. He signed for star money. He hasn’t outperformed his “old” contract, he’s earned the hefty salary he was given.

    It’s not like he was Sherman outperforming a 5th round rookie contract.

    1. Walt
    2. Largent
    3. Tez
    4. Easley
    5. $haun
    6. Green
    7. Hasselbeck
    8. John L. Williams
    9. Sherman (already – and rising)
    10. ET (already – and rising; probably should be ahead of Sherm since he’s played one more season, but Sherm had “The Tip”).

    I was in a wedding yesterday and we had to do “something” creative for an entrance when we were announced. The woman I walked with didn’t have any ideas, so we did the Sherman/Crabtree entrance. She fell back tipping her flowers to me and I pulled the Malcolm Smith and caught them just the way Sherm and Smith did almost on the ground. It was pretty fun.

  22. Bobby, our lists are so close I wish you’d followed the rule of no one currently on the team. I’m glad beat you to the send key.

    That reenactment of “The Tip” sounds really cool did it get filmed?

  23. Southendzone says:

    Pretty clear that any list gotta have Walter, Largent, Cortez, & Easley at the top.

    I don’t have my whole list thought out but one major difference is I’d have Shaun pretty low, maybe not cracking the top 10.

    In terms of best Seattle RBs of all times, my list is :

    Warner
    Lynch
    Shaun

    I just really loved Curt Warner. I remember watching him and thinking he could be the greatest ever, remember him always challenging Eric Dickerson for the rushing title, but then getting injured. Maybe it’s one of those things I can’t put in perspective well cause it happened when I was young, like seeing Star Wars when you’re a kid and it’s just the most awesome thing in your life because you’re only 9 years old.

    I’d also give Sherman more credit for his contributions and probably have him around #6.

  24. What unproven WR is making double the money?

  25. It’s a tough call on the QB for the top ten. Love Dave K and really thought he was a tough competitor. Matt is an awesome, classy dude and represented the Hawks well. I still hold Jim Zorn in my heart as our first bonafide QB…and a lefty! ;-)

    Marshawn has been the heart and soul of this team and set the tone for the past 2-3 years. I think Pete and John know that and will do something for ML. Don’t know what but I don’t think they’ll blow him off either. He is important to this club right now, this year. As an Aggie, I’m a Michael fan but he is unproven when compared to ML and Turbo and I have a feeling Turbo will step up big time this year. Michael needs to grow up and prove it on the field.

  26. As much as a bunch of us give a lot of credit to Walt and Hutch for $haun winning the MVP in ’05 – he is the only Seahawk in the history of the frachise to win that award. As much as it was a team effort, it usually is with many people who win it.

    I love Warner, but I think $haun did more over his career to warrant being in the top 10. If we had a list of favorite players of all time, I’d easily have Warner towards the top of that list while $haun wouldn’t sniff it.

  27. Southendzone says:

    That’s where you have to figure out the selection criteria. Alexander put up some great seasons, but on pure talent, based on their peak and ignoring injuries, I think Warner was better, faster, more elite athletically.

    Regardless of any stats Shaun put up, I have a hard time bringing him into a top 10 list, ring of honor discussion or other accolades due to his attitude. I’d rank Hasslebeck above Shaun just because Matt was all-in and wanted to win here so bad.

    The way your list is constructed, I think there’s a case to put Hutch on it, he was truly elite at his position.

  28. Feb – Seahawks
    June – Kings
    June – Spurs
    October – ?

    It’s a pleasure to have the Spurs join “us” as winners of one of the 4 major sports.

  29. AZBubba71 says:

    Southendzone–I feel the same way about Warner. Just loved his game when I was a kid (12 years old in 1983). I still believe, that if not for the astroturf caused ACL injury against the Browns, Warner would have soon been recognized as the best RB in the league (yes, better than Dickerson). He could run, catch, block…and had a tremendous team first attitude. He was the perfect running back for Knox and I consider his injury to be among the most tragic sports injuries that nobody outside of WA seems to recognize.

    jaw–I would either replace Nash or Brown. Though he put up great career numbers, I don’t remember Brown being dominant or feared. I have a feeling that his numbers were so high because teams purposely targeted him on a consistent basis. My friends and I used to joke (keep in mind that we were in our early teens), that his last name is Brown because he is about to become toast.

  30. jawpeace says:

    LOL the one I remember especially early in his career was “Big Foot Harper”. That guy was burned more than Bush JR. But to give Harper some credit he did start to become a good CB later in his career and then he left to another team.

    I was thinking the other day if PC and JS had this current team prior to the free agency era. I can’t imagine how many championships they could have won. Of course that means that we would not have two very important pieces last year in Micheal B. and Cliff A. But the way they have drafted it would have been a Super Dynasty. I still think the Hawks are going to be making a dynasty for themselves but in the FA era that is very hard and not what it could have been due to losing good players.

  31. bsinnitt says:

    My top 10 of previous Hawks would be:

    1. Walter Jones
    2. Steve Largent
    3. Cortez Kennedy
    4. Ken Easley
    5. Curt Warner
    6. Shaun Alexander
    7. Jacob Green
    8. Matthew Hasselbeck
    9. Jacob Green
    10. Michael Sinclair

    Honorable mention to Eugene Robinson, Dave Brown, Dave Krieg, John L. Williams and Marcus Trufant.

  32. bsinnitt says:

    Whoops, indecisive on where to put Jacob Green. Should have removed him from the 7th spot and added Eugene Robinson at 10.

  33. vichawkfan says:

    @theMMQB: Boss is on vacation, so we let @VernonDavis85 write MMQB. He talks holdout, losing to SEA and NFL’s biggest problem: http://t.co/8sbxXC23GX

    Seems like a decent dude. Clearly understands how good Russell is.

  34. mquinn73 says:

    My top 10 greatest Seahawks…

    1. Walter Jones
    2. Steve Largent
    3. Cortez Kennedy
    4. Dave Krieg
    5. Matt Hasselback
    6. Shaun Alexander
    7. Kenny Easley
    8. Curt Warner
    9. Jacob Green
    10. Joe Nash

    As a fan from back in ’79, I have a real soft spot for the Chuck Knox era guys – especially John L. Williams & Fredd Young. However, I do think there is a general over-ranking (is that even a word?) of Easley and his contribution to the organisation. For me, the combination of longevity and consistent performance means that beyond the obvious Jones-Largent-Kennedy trio, Krieg, Hasselback and Alexander ranked higher than #35. I even considered moving Green and Nash up a few spots.

    Still love Curt Warner’s cutbacks….

  35. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Vernon Davis is right about Russell Wilson, just like he was right last year when he said the Seahawks are building a dynasty.

  36. banosser says:

    Any info on how Jeffcoat has been doing??

  37. Macabrevity says:

    mquinn73 – get Joe Nash off that list :P

    That guy put up numbers because he was constantly blown 5 yards off the LoS only to recover and get in on the tackle like a slow LB. Not my favorite NT by a long shot – although I do like the personality and that era of Hawk’s football. He wouldn’t make my top 50 Hawks though…

  38. montanamike2 says:

    I still can’t believe Jeffcoat wasn’t drafted! I think he was a steal for us as an UDFA. I think he’s going to be a high caliber player.

  39. Macabrevity says:

    Hey Chuck, curious if our resident legal expert could chime in on this…

    I keep hearing people on the radio calling in about the Marshawn situation and saying “he signed the contract, he should honor it.”

    I run my own business and write up contracts for my clients all the time, it’s a mutual agreement so we know what will be done, what will be paid, it’s not always a binding deed with biblical ramifications (as in you’ll burn if you reneg.) I have contracts with clients so we have a record and an expectation of what will happen and what will be paid, and if at any time one side decides it’s not good enough, we either re-work it or move on. There’s no code of honor being broken at all, never any hard feelings….

    I’m sick of these radio callers saying we should dump Marshawn (don’t know if you’ve heard much of the chatter) when it seems to me a normal and expected part of the business to renegotiate when conditions change.

    My question to you, is where does this idea that a contract should be honored to the end come from, and is it valid? Anyway, I won’t go on about it, since I’m not an expert, just curious what your take (or anyone else’s here is for that matter.)

  40. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Speaking of Davis, the Seahawks played him 3 times last season, Jimmy Graham 2 & Julius Thomas 1.

    That’s six games for a total of 134 yards for a whopping average of about 22 yards per game.

    All three are trying to get some big money right now.

    All three are owned by Kam & co.

  41. montanamike2 says:

    You’d have to pay me more to take hits from Kam 3 times a year too.

  42. “But… But…I’m JIMMY!!”

  43. montanamike2 says:

    That interview with Irvin after the NO game was the funniest all last season.

  44. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I can’t help but think that when you have his teammates like Bennett on the NFL network this morning saying that (Lynch deserves to be paid more) it has to put some pressure on the FO to throw him a bone.

  45. chkn_liddle says:

    Mac, I was thinking the same thing. I work in academia and tenured professors outperform their contracts all the time, They then “hold-out” for more money by exploring a move to another University. They are either allowed to leave or given a better deal to stay. We all cheer them on when this happens! If Lynch were a neurosurgery professor at the University of Iowa, there would be no problem.

    There is also no problem, by the way, when the team asks the player to renegotiate as several did this year. There is at least a social class bias in play when we castigate the players in these situations. Maybe it’s natural, because we identify with them and from that perspective, we find them greedy. “If someone paid me $3million dollars to play football, I would never complain” Of course, any given fan would be a greedy diva from day one and Marshawn would be a model of tact and decorum by comparison. Could you imagine sitting down for contract negotiations with some of the blog divas?

  46. montanamike2 says:

    The Broncos spent all their energy keeping Marshawn from going off in the SB that it opened it up for everybody else. His impact on this team can’t be ignored.

  47. yankinta says:

    montanamike2,, that’s not just with Marshawn. That’s with any Young QBs. You are supposed to shut down the running game and make them beat you. But Denver didn’t realize that RW is a Special QB. The Best QB to come into NFL in the History of NFL… Now they know. :)

  48. The idea that Seattle cant allow Marshawn to get more money because it would set a bad precedent is a fallacy. Chris Clemons not only wanted more money, he held out, and Seattle eventually caved and paid him fairly. He also had vastly outperformed his contract.

    Lynch has outperformed his contract, and he knows full well he got hosed with his contract; he wont see the 9 mill for 2015.

    The problem with contracts is they are one-way, in favor of teams; if the player outperforms his contract, he can either ask nicely for a raise, hold out until he gets one, or tough it out and get hosed. Or retire.

    On the other hand, if a team signs a guy and he underperforms, they can cut the player at any time, with only bonus money and salary cap repercussions, and the player has no recourse.

    That is why, when a guy is outplaying his contract–especially when its someone as important to the mentality of our team like Lynch–I believe its good business to cough up some more dough.

    Now, if Lynch expects 9 million this year, he’s out of his mind. But I see nothing wrong with coughing up 1-2 million more this year, tweaking his contract a little.

    He’s worth more than half what ET, Sherm, and Harvin are being paid and this is his last year to be paid well. Pay the man.

    Again, they caved to Clemons, who held out–why not make a nice gesture and cough some up to the guy that is the heart and soul of this team?

  49. montanamike2 says:

    I would redo his contract so that he gets a little more this year and we don’t take a cap hit next year when he’s released.

  50. My top 10 Hawks of the past(as players, not as representatives of Seattle):

    1) Steve Largent
    2) Walter Jones
    3) Cortez Kennedy
    4) Matt Hasselbeck
    5) John L. Williams
    6) Kenny Easley
    7) Curt Warner
    8) Sean Alexander
    9) Jacob Green
    10) Eugene Robinson

    11) Brian Blades
    12) Marcus Trufant
    13) Joe Nash
    14) Chris Warren
    15) Bobby Engram

  51. I probably should have Green ahead of Alexander and Warner, and perhaps Easley and John L. And Engram should be higher.

    I dont agree, Maca, that Nash sucked. He was a solid player who did the dirty work so guys like Jeff Bryant and Green could get the sacks and the credit. Even David Wyman had much respect for the man, and thats good enough for me to take his opinion over yours, never mind my own opinion from having watched his entire career.

    Jeff Bryant should be there ahead of Nash though…

    I give up. I cant make a top-10 Hawks List…

  52. montanamike–I think if they re-do his contract, it will foul the cap up and all his signing bonus counts on this years cap. I think its more likely they find a way to pay him a million or two more of his 2015 salary this year, so they can keep him on board next year for a reasonable deal, even if he loses a step. That way, their cap doesnt get fouled up…

  53. montanamike2 says:

    Whatever works, if 2015 is the year so be it.

  54. GeorgiaHawk says:

    The best-

    1.Jones
    2.Largent
    3.Easley
    4.Kennedy
    5.Green

    The next five could be filled with 20 or more other players.

    6.Hutch
    7.Mawae
    8.Williams
    9.Galloway
    10.Warner

    Five current players that I think has a good chance to crack the top ten down the road-

    Wilson
    Sherman
    Thomas
    Lynch
    Kam

  55. Southendzone says:

    If they re-do his cap, one thing I’m fairly sure is unavoidable is the additional $1.5M prorated bonus in 2015 gets pushed to this year.

    But they can make up for that with the new contract by making the “new” version of his 2014 salary much less than the 5.5 it currently is. You can push his hit off to future years with a new signing bonus so OK for now, but pain down the road.

    It’s an effective short term solution to get him more guaranteed $ this year and not blow up the cap.

    an aside: I like seeing Brian Blades making the outside top 10 list of somebody above. I was considering him myself.

  56. yankinta says:

    STTBM,, that’s comparing apples and organes when you compare the situation with Lynch and Clemons… Lynch is already getting paid like a TOP 5 RB in the NFL and is only 2 years into his new lucrative contract.

    It will set a bad precedent and I bet our FO will not do it. If this happens, then you can expect Sherman, Thomas and Kam to hold out next year….

  57. yankinta says:

    I hope he doesn’t retire though. I’d like to get something back for him in a trade. Although it seems unlikely, I don’t think it’s impossible.

  58. Regarding Kevin Williams signing with the Seahawks –

    “He ultimately picked the Seahawks over the Patriots, agreeing to a one-year deal with them on Thursday night and taking a little less money than he said the Patriots had offered.”

    http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/7223/williams-vikings-interest-was-shocking

    In other words, he’s not pigging out at the trough like his former Vikings DL teammate.

  59. Yankinta–Clemons was also only a year or two into a contract, and he was making more than Lynch. Clemons isnt a top-5 pass rusher in the NFL, though he was perfect for us.

    The fact remains Lynch is outperforming his contract, just like Clemons. Its apples and oranges. Who cares if Lynch is making top-5 money, he’s a top-3 back, and he’s being paid a good deal less then we were paying Clemons.

    You think Arian Foster is better than Lynch?

  60. Ha, I meant apples to apples…

  61. yankinta says:

    lol, you asked Who cares if Lynch is already making top-5 money?? Ummmmm the FO cares and all those Seahawks players’ agents that are watching this closely,, Care. :)

  62. Georgia–Man, I wouldnt count Joey Galloway in the top 100 Seahawks players, but to each his own lol! Im not putting the Ice Fisherman in any top 10 list, unless its Top 10 Ass%%*$5! Plus, neither him nor Mawae were here long enough–they left after their rookie deals.

    I do agree that many of our current squad will be considered all-time great Hawks; Sherm, ET, Wilson, Lynch, Kam…I think Wagner has a good shot, and maybe another LB if we can keep one past their rookie deal!

    Mebane gets consideration as well, he’s been a rock.

  63. Lynch doesnt care if he’s making Top-5 money, he’s making less money than Foster and everyone knows he’s a better back. He’s also making half what several guys on the team are making, and he’s sacrificing more for the team. The fact remains he’s underpaid, and no one appreciates being underpaid, especially not in their last year or two of football.

  64. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Lynch isn’t making top five average money for RBs.

    I think he deserves to be making around what McCoy is. In the mid 7 mil range.

    McCoy is arguably running behind the best line in the NFL.

    Lynch not so much.

    “Throw him a bone Pete.”

  65. 3 Year Total Compensation (2012-2014):
    Peterson: $33.3m (no signing bonus paid in this period)
    Foster: $29.8m (signing bonus paid in 2012)
    Rice: $25.5m (signing bonus paid in 2012)
    Forte: $23.0m (signing bonus paid in 2012)
    Lynch: #22.5m (signing bonus paid in 2012)
    McCoy: $20.5m (signing bonus paid in 2012)

    Lynch might have the case he’s been underpaid around $2m total over the 3 years. That’s really not enough to justify a renegotiation and is nothing like the Clemons situation.

    Lynch does have the most postseason TD runs of 25+ yards in NFL history at 4. The next closest player has 2.

  66. TallyHawk says:

    How has Lynch outperformed his contract? He’s pocketed 17 mil in 2 seasons on it so far and will be at 22.5 at the end of the upcoming one. That’s not chump change especially for a RB now days.

  67. For all we know the Hawks are working on something with Lynch as we speak. This upcoming week with the minicamp will tell a lot about what is going on with Lynch, if he shows up and participates or not

  68. banosser says:

    Counting last yr and this yr Foster will make $11M in base salary.. Marshon will make $12M.. and LeSean will have made $10.6M.. and Forte will have made $7.7M

    So whose been paid better?

  69. Southendzone says:

    I’m starting to come around to the player side here. As it’s been said already, the team holds all the power in NFL contracts.

    Marshawn knows he’s close to his last significant earnings in the NFL and wants to maximize them. That’s why I don’t buy any sort of retirement threat.

    The Hawks threw Browner some $ when they didn’t have to because they respected his contributions. They could keep things friendly here and do the same with Marshawn.

  70. Browner had outperformed his contract by a great deal. Unless someone is comparing Lynch to the Foster contract, I don’t see how anyone can make the argument Lynch has been underpaid enough to justify a renegotiation. He’s right in line with Rice, Forte and McCoy.

    And if you didn’t know that the Front Office is smarter than using the Foster contract as a comp, Yank will be happy to let you remind you of this.

  71. banosser says:

    Marshon essentially signed a 3yr $22M contract with $17M guaranteed.. that don’t suck, but since he had a bumped salary last yr and ‘only’ $5M this yr he’s ‘under paid’… I ain’t buyin it

  72. Southendzone says:

    Ya Pab, in terms of raw $, he has had a good contract. I think just something where they bump up some guaranteed money makes sense.

    Not that I could ever get in Marshawn’s head, but it makes sense that it’s NEXT year he’s worried about.

  73. chuck_easton says:

    To answer Macbrevity about NFL contracts and to again explain why the team can’t just ‘throw Lynch a bone’ as Georgia suggests I’ll give my contract 101 lecture.

    In the business world there are two very specific types of contracts and many people don’t understand which contract model is used in the NFL for player contracts.

    Employment Contract

    Employer and employee agree that the employee will do a certain job description for a certain pay. It can be annually or hourly but the terms are clear.

    There will be wording in the contract that allows the employer to terminate the contract with cause if the employee isn’t performing or for other reasons.

    The contract also allows for the employee to terminate the contract, with some length of notice, for any reason. The reason is usually the employee realizes he/she isn’t getting paid enough or some other employer has offered the person more money.

    Employment contracts can have durations to them such as yearly, monthly, and in some cases multi-years, but it is clear that the contract can be ended (not broken, ended) by either party at any time for certain conditions.

    Services Contract

    Company “A” needs the specific services that Company “B” can provide.

    The two parties enter into a contract that states Company “A” will pay a certain amount (can be flat rate, annually, monthly, whatever) directly to Company “B”.

    In exchange for that payment Company “B” will provide a specific service that they have and that Company “A” needs. Usually Company “B” has either convinced Company “A” that they have the ability to provide the services at a better price, better delivery schedule, or better quality than other companies that could provide the services to Company “A”.

    A contract is signed. Company “B” agrees to a contract duration, and a set payment schedule. The standard Services Contract has specific wording that allows Company “A” to terminate the contract at any time during the duration of the contract if Company “B” is not meeting their performance goals, their deliverables, or the quality of the services are not what Company “A” expected.

    Few Services Contract allow Company “B” to go back to Company “A” and state that they have outperformed the contract and demand more money. I have done Services Contracts that have wording that says if Company “B” exceeds expectations by X then there can be a bonus paid. (i.e. an NFL incentive clause).

    Every Services Contract I have ever drafted or reviewed will make it very difficult for Company “B” to terminate the contract. They are the party that agreed that they could provide a certain service, at a specific rate, over a determined amount of time. Company “A” entered the contract in good faith that Company “B” would do job X, for Y amount of years, at Z compensation.

    Company “B” can usually get out of the contract, but the terms are quite harsh and invariably have a buyout fee. Company “B” either buys their way out of the contract, they can refuse to continue providing the services, likely leading to fines or repayment of fees already paid, or they must simply finish out the duration of the contract.

    NFL Contracts

    In looking at the construct of the above Contract models you can quickly see that NFL player contracts are not Employment Contracts.

    The team can annually review the performance of the player and if they determine he has not provided adequate services as expected from the contract then upon annual review they can terminate the contract. The team is still ‘honouring’ the contract because there is specific wording that grants them this ability without penalty. A team can cut a player mid-season, but the contract has provisions for that as well. If the player was on the roster on opening day of regular season, then they get the full amount of their contract for the season.
    If there is guaranteed money owed to the player, the player still receives that money owed. If there was a bonus paid out and that bonus is being ‘charged’ to the company on a pro-rated basis for the life of the contract then the full amount owing becomes due (think taxes).

    A player can’t go to his team and say “That team over there is ready to pay me X amount more money so I’m going to ‘work’ for them”. The player has agreed to provide his unique and specific SERVICES to the team for a set duration and at a set price.

    Just as in a Services Contract a Player can threaten to withhold his services to the team, but at a cost in fines, potential return of bonus money, and such.

    A player can’t quit and find another ‘employer’ because they are not happy. The player isn’t an employee of the team. He is a Service Provider. He has agreed to provide that team with his unique and specific skilled services for a set time at a set price.

    Now on Lynch.

    If the team really has decided that this contract will be the last between Lynch and the Seahawks, why would they do anything now? And even if the team wanted to do something what are the ramifications?

    Lynch has two years left on his 4 year contract. He received a 6M signing bonus and annual base salaries of 2012: 4M, 2013: 7M, 2014: 5M, and 2015: 5.5M. 2012 and 2013 salaries were fully guaranteed so Lynch was getting those years even if he blew out his knee first play of 2012. So Lynch has already received the fully guaranteed $17M of the contract.

    This is the first non-guaranteed year. But as a veteran Lynch’s 2014 salary becomes fully guaranteed if he’s on the roster game 1. He also gets a 500K roster bonus for being on the team for that Thursday night game against GB. In total, Lynch gets another 5.5M guaranteed if he’s on the team for the first game of the 2014 regular season.

    Lynch would now be up to $22.5M paid out of the original 4 year $30M contract. Only the 2015 base salary of $5.5M and 2015 roster bonus of $2M (or $7.5M total in 2015) would be left to be paid.

    That $6M signing bonus was pro-rated over the 4 years of the contract. There is a CAP hit of $1.5M each season for money already paid to Lynch in 2012. If Lynch is cut this season (not gonna happen) the remaining $3M of the bonus money becomes immediately due on this year’s cap.

    If Lynch is cut next year for Cap reasons (also considered performance reasons under the contract…i.e. the performance may still be good, but not good enough to justify a 9M cap hit), there would still be a $1.5M Cap hit next season as the final installment of the original bonus.

    To answer Georgia. There is nothing that allows a team to just give a player some extra money. Violates the CBA and would be used to circumvent the CAP by some unethical team. So to give Lynch any more money the team either has to extend Lynch another few years, or rip up his current contract entirely.

    Again, if the decision is to move on from Lynch either after 2014 or after 2015 at the latest, why extend him?

    To rip up the contract would mean the remaining $3M of the signing bonus becomes due immediately on this year’s CAP, just as if Lynch was cut. So you Start with a $3M CAP hit before you start thinking about new money.

    Lynch’s contract already gives him $5.5M this year, 5M base and 500K roster bonus. So the new contract is going to have to do something to get Lynch more than $5.5M this year. If it is in straight salary or salary + bonus it still goes on the CAP this season.

    Theoretically they pay Lynch his $2M roster bonus this year instead of next year and they still pay him is $5M base, or better yet they pay him the $5.5M he would get next year. Lynch now gets $7.5M this year instead of $5.5 so he gets two million more. But the CAP hit for 2014 will go up from $7M to $10.5M for 2014. $7.5 pay plus 3M from the original bonus. So team loses $3.5M in CAP space to give Lynch an additional $2M this year. And would Lynch consider $2M more enough?

    The good news for the above scenario is the team could keep Lynch in 2015 for $5.5M and lower the 2015 CAP hit to $5.5M from $9M and save $3.5M in CAP space next year, or they could still cut him next year and have no CAP hit at all.

    If the team goes Bonus money, they could lower this year’s cap hit but they would have a bigger CAP hit next year (above the $1.5M the current contract would have) either by cutting Lynch or keeping him.

    Any scenario that anyone can come up with to ‘give Lynch a bone’ this year will cost the team more CAP money.

    Lynch has been great. We all love him. But if the team really has decided to move on, what reason would they have for incurring further CAP loss for a player that is under contract and likely will not be here after this year?

  74. chuck_easton says:

    And sorry for the long post!

  75. Exactly, Chuck. Im no lawyer, but I thought just about the only way to get Lynch more bucks this year without trashing the cap is to take the money he’s due to make next year and pay it this year…that way he’s cheap next year.

    But that only works if Seattle intends to have him around next year, and Im doubting they do.

    Pabs et al–You cant compare the last two years: we’re all talking about THIS year. THIS year, Lynch will be underpaid. He earned every damned dollar they paid him the last three years, and this year he’s worth more to us than 5.5 million–at least IMO. THIS year, McCoy is due more than 7 million, AP is due 11.6 million or something like that. Even Arian Foster is making more than Lynch THIS YEAR.

    Everyone knows Lynch wont be getting his final years salary; no wonder he wants his money now. Of course, its his fault (and his agents) that he agreed to this contract, and Seattle isnt legally obligated to renegotiate, but this isnt a Darrelle Revis move on Lynch’s part; his 2015 money will not happen as he will be cut, and he’s due to make less than he’s worth this year.

  76. Chuck, that was excellent!!! Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

    Everyone seems to be writing ML off next year. Why? Who’s to say he won’t be productive for years to come, especially if we do start to move in the direction of a RB by committee approach.

  77. GeorgiaHawk says:

    In fairness to Lynch he has to rush for 1500 yards to get (what I think is a 1/2 mil bonus.)

    How can he do that with sharing the rushing duties more?

    (Throw him a bone) is a figure of speech that can mean several things from a pat on the back to re-doing his contract.

  78. Macabrevity says:

    Chuck, thanks for the informative post, and for taking the time. You should cut and paste that and email it to 710 ESPN. They seriously need to take Chuck’s Contracts 101 course.

  79. Georgia–Exactly. Unless the line improves dramatically–and maybe not even then–how can he run for that many yards? Im pretty sure that Lynch didnt forsee the line taking a step backward last season, and that cost him.

    While I fully expect the line to be far better than last year (especially since we HAVE to have better luck regarding injuries), I dont see him getting the blocking of say, Philly or the Niners.

    Taking into account quality of offensive lines, and strength of opponents, I think Lynch’s performance last year was remarkable, and the best RB performance in the NFL. Only AP can claim to be better, and that was arguable the last couple years.

  80. Macabrevity says:

    As for Joe Nash, he had the respect of his teammates, the media, and played a looong time and was very productive. Just not my type of NT for that era of football. I remember watching Tim Krumrie go down for the Bengals in ’88 (I think) and they brought in this guy Grant who was just collapsing the pocket, erasing the belly on run plays, just sheer force pressing the center straight back, and from that point on I became maybe unnecessarily critical of the way Nash played. I can appreciate the arguments for Nash, but he just didn’t play the style I liked at the time, I was a relatively new football fan (started watching in ’83) and it left quite an impression.

  81. Riding Lynch to death while we have a crappy line, then dumping him just when the line looks to be solidifying is eerily similar to what happened with poor Matt Hasselbeck.

    Hass would have been better off to sit out his last couple years here (except then he wouldnt have the NO game, his last and finest in Seattle), at least long-term; all he got for his efforts was one playoff win and a body that got beaten down so hard, it failed him just when he needed it most in his next starting gig. Playing out the string here with a crappy team robbed him of a couple years of good play at the end, Im sure of it.

    Just like Favre with the Jets, Hass’ first half of the year starting for the Titans was great; he was playing fine football, held back a bit in the fourth quarter by his idiot conservative coach, but regularly putting up 250 yards by the fourth quarter and leaving the D with a lead…then his body broke down and the slide to backup qb status began…

    How much longer can Lynch’s body make up for a terrible O-line? Thats one question I never want answered; I want the line to step up and help Lynch out, give him at least one year of badass blocking so he can go out on top and in style, without destroying himself.

  82. Maca–Nash actually could rush the passer. His problem was he played the scheme Knox and his DC asked him to. He did his job. Wyman in one of his book paints a picture of a guy who was asked to do all the dirty work, and who got no credit even from coaches, but who did it humbly and willingly. Wyman felt bad about the way Nash was taken for granted.

    So, remember that the man played the game exactly the way he was asked to play–not necessarily the way he would have liked. It wasnt ability that held him back, but the role he was asked to fill.

    While certainly no All-Pro physical freak, Nash was a good player for a lot of years.

  83. yankinta says:

    Not only does Bennett want Lynch to cash in,, Bennett’s agent, Earl’s agent, Sherman’s agent and Kam’s agent would all like Lynch to cash in. They want their clients to be making Top 3 Position Salaries every year.. Top 5 isn’t good enough.

    They need Lynch to set a precedent here so that they’ll be able to hold out for more money starting next year. :)

    I’m so glad JS/PC are in Charge and will NOT Allow this to happen. This is how Dynasties are built. It’s not about this upcoming season, it’s about having a chance to win multiple Super Bowls in Next Few Years..

  84. The precedent was already set by Chris Clemons. Whether its top-5 money or not is irrelevant. He’s not making an amount comparable to his contribution or sacrifice, nor is he paid fairly when compared to his peers. He’s a top-3 RB, and should be paid accordingly, especially since its his last year here at full pay/strength in all likelihood.

  85. yankinta says:

    STTBM,, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Maybe you should look up Clemons’ contract details when he held out. :)

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