Seahawks Insider

Offensive line on the Seahawks’ radar at Thursday’s draft

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on May 5, 2014 at 3:00 am with 90 Comments »
May 5, 2014 10:24 am

When something is difficult to quantify, it tends to create more experts.

These folks step into the subjectivity. They hug it, embrace, announce what they see and know, purporting it as fact. They are the offensive line assessors.

Picking out the guard or tackle who was misplaced during a play can be a chore. The results of others tend to tell the story of the line, particularly failure: Can’t run? Line’s fault. Sacked a lot? The line’s fault.

The Seahawks went through this last season, surviving much of the year with backups manning the line. Left tackle Russell Okung (eight games) and right tackle Breno Giacomini (seven games) missed large chunks of time last season. Center Max Unger dealt with various injuries and concussion issues. Right guard J.R. Sweezy missed a game. Paul McQuistan and James Carpenter rotated at left guard.

The line — no matter who was doing the judging — was a mess much of the year. And, two of those players have departed. That’s why the Seahawks are often projected to take a lineman with their first-round pick in Thursday’s draft.

Giacomini and McQuistan went elsewhere in free agency. Giacomini landed closer to his native New England by signing with the New York Jets. McQuistan signed with the Cleveland Browns. Carpenter was sent notice last Friday when the Seahawks decided not to pick up the fifth-year option on his rookie contract. Since being selected with the 25th overall pick in 2011, Carpenter’s effectiveness has fluctuated. No need for a stat to confirm that since he shared snaps with McQuistan last season, whom the Seahawks did not feel compelled to re-sign.

The Seahawks began to bring in offensive line replacements last season by signing undrafted free agent Alvin Bailey and drafting Michael Bowie in the seventh round. Bowie filled-in for Giacomini and Bailey was used as an extra tight in jumbo sets. Bowie is the in-house leader to take over for Giacomini. Bailey could rotate at left guard with Carpenter, replacing McQuistan. Seattle also signed Stephen Schilling for depth in the offseason. Still, the Seahawks are likely to pursue another lineman.

Seattle will have quality line options to look at late in the first round.

UCLA lineman Xavier Su’a-Filo has been linked to the Seahawks. He played tackle and guard during his three seasons with the Bruins. He started all 13 games in 2013, seven at left guard and six at left tackle. He’s 6-foot-4 and 307 pounds.

Su’a-Filo is already 23 years old because he spent two years on a LDS mission during college.

“I think my mission helped me mature as a man; not only emotionally, spiritually, but physically,” Su’a-Filo said. “It helped me in football. When I came home, it wasn’t easy. I had a full offseason to work out and prepare for that season, but I think as far as health goes and my game, I have a lot of things to work on.”

Another Pac-12 lineman is also a possibility for Seattle.

Stanford’s David Yankey is a versatile guard who left college early. Calm, large and polite at the NFL combine in Indianapolis, Yankey handled most questions with a smile. After measuring 6-foot-5 ½ and 315 pounds, he’ll have plenty to smile about after being drafted May 8, particularly if he lands with the world champions.

Yankey is among the record number of underclassmen who have entered the draft early this year. He’ll be graduating this spring, which will get that priority out of the way.

“The thing that made it easy to make my decision is I wasn’t focused on what other guys were doing,” Yankey said. “It was about me and where I was as a person. It was something I talked about with my family a little bit. We felt it was right for me to come out.”

Yankey said he’s able to play everything except center, the kind of versatility the Seahawks used and coveted last season when linemen were injured.

Nevada guard Joel Bitonio (6-4, 302) and Virginia tackle Morgan Moses (6-6, 314) are also in the mix.

Leave a comment Comments → 90
  1. How many ways can you polish up a turd?!

    You don’t have to be an expert to notice that even with the starters, this line stumbled out the gate and never reached competence.

    And noting that McQ had lost a step, FatCarp couldn’t beat him out, Sweezy was a bottom-tier G and Giacomini fell apart was pretty much born out by Seattles roster moves. If they thought those guys did well, they’d all be on the team.

    Lynch and RW made that line look far better than they were; implying the line got the blame unfairly is laughable at best, insanity at worst.

    All hyperbole aside, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear; so why try Todd? This reads like a Farnsworth infotainment article.

  2. montanamike2 says:

    Xavier Su’a-Filo would be good if he’s still there. I wish we had something even close to the Whiners o-line.

  3. montanamike2 says:

    Depending on that toe injury, we might have to replace Okung too. Sweezy should be better in year 3 of a new position, Unger hopefully has his pects healed, but we do have a lot of holes to fill. Hopefully we can do something in later rounds or UDFA’s.

  4. Sweezy will get better, and hopefully Carpenter as we’ll. I’m excited to see the new line this year. I just hate lame excuses; I’m really sure Lynchs poor execution was to blame for the lines struggles, and RW held the ball too long every pass play…

    And I’m King of Siam…

  5. montanamike2 says:

    I hope Carpenter gets better so we can either trade him or get a comp pick at years end, much like a car that’s a POS but runs well for the moment. Sell it while it’s running good.

  6. HawkFromDay1 says:

    Yankey doesn’t seem to have the nastiness Cable would prefer. And Sua-Filo isn’t massive quite like we seem to like. Not buying it with either of these guys

    I really like Trai Turner from LSU. Not a ton of technique in his game but he’s mean, strong and just shoves people around.

    Also liking Urschel from Penn State – seems like the new Chris Gray at RG (yes the maligned Chris Gray! the guy we just couldn’t replace no matter how many rookies/FA’s we brought it – the Dave Krieg of RG’s).

    Last one – Gabe Jackson from Miss St. This year’s Larry Warford. 330 but has that dancing bear mobility.

    And SOMEONE PLEASE take a flier on Spencer Long – Jake Long’s brother. Injured so next year will be an NFL redshirt, but I think the dude can play.

    But Stanley Jean-Baptiste will be our first pick. Book it.

  7. I still hope Carp plays well and resigns–he’s a Free Agent at years end, so no trade. And I mean it when I say there’s hope for the line.

    I’m still hopeful we trade down and draft Martavis Bryant and then a RT. but if JS isn’t using a smokescreen they intend Bowie for RT and may try to get a DE or Bucannon, the S from WSU.

  8. BobbyK says:

    Personally, I hope they draft a tackle because I think Bowie has a chance to be a really good guard in the NFL but I don’t see him being a stud tackle in the league. Drafting a guard means Bowie will play his “natural” position, but the position he doesn’t project to as well in the NFL. Drafting a tackle means we can add a tackle AND add a stud left guard in Bowie and we can be put out of our misery with the Carp failure. But if they ultimately take a guard, WR, LB, DL, or whatever… I guess I really don’t care because for the first time EVER I actually trust those in charge.

  9. montanamike2 says:

    I prefer Bowie at guard too.

  10. GeorgiaHawk says:

    How many ways can you beat a dead horse?

    I got an idea, draft o-line in rounds 1 and 2, then next year spend lots of money on free agent o-lineman.
    That should help us have one of the best o-line in the NFL.

    Of course that will mean we won’t be able to sign Avril, Maxwell, Wright and Smith. But who cares, defense doesn’t win championships right?

    Having one of the best o-line is the way to go according to some blog GMs.

    Or we can take the FO approach and continue to build our o-line with the idea that defense and an elite QB is the best way to win championships.

    I personally trust the FO way.

  11. SaigonSun says:

    I know all about our O.L. needs. .. but, I am almost 100% sure our top pick will either be traded, or it will be a WR , maybe a DL.

  12. ChrisHolmes says:

    We won the Superbowl with a crap OL.

    Imagine what we’ll do with a few more capable bodies.

    And I’m with BobbyK: draft a Tackle, so we can move Bowie to guard. That would be great.

  13. Macabrevity says:

    There’s a school of thought out there that says RW makes the O-Line looks worse because he holds onto the ball for so long. I’d be tempted to buy that as a possibility except for the fact that Marshawn tends to have tacklers draped all over him the exact second he gets the hand-off. I guess RW holds onto the ball too long even on run plays apparently.

    As for the draft – I’d be pretty happy with Moses or Bitonio, not so high on the above-mentioned Yankey or Kouandijo )who looks to me like a Carpenter clone…)

  14. HawkFromDay1 says:

    I would argue RW makes the OL look good, because he slips out of 3 sacks a game…

  15. Southendzone says:

    I’ve come around, I was really hoping for WR 1st, and OL 2nd, but changed my mind. Feel like we need to get some fresh blood in there, particularly for the RT position.

    I also read a couple things on Trai Turner recently, he had some favorable write ups and seems like a beast physically.

    Somehow I don’t see this regime taking Xavier at #32 (even if he’s there). Haven’t seen them go that high for a guard before, not counting Carp, I don’t know what they thought he was when they drafted him, G or T.

  16. HawkfaninMT says:

    I am in the keep drafting the OL in mid to late rounds and letting them gel… My favorite pick at this point would be in round 4 with LDT from Canada, the aforementioned Trai Turner, or Brandon Thomas in the 5th to take over at G once Carp leaves after this year

  17. Just FYI Todd. This is wrong:

    “The Seahawks began to bring in offensive line replacements in last season’s draft by selecting Alvin Bailey and Michael Bowie in the seventh round.”

    Bowie was a 7th round draft choice. Bailey was an UDFA.

  18. cerjam says:

    I believe Carroll when he says we are a run first team,we take a lineman before a receiver in the draft would be my bet.

  19. jammer says:

    The Hawks drafted 2 other OLinemen late in last year’s draft, one (Jared Simith) was still here as a PS player at the end of the season so Todd is right. The other is on SF’s roster at present.

    Greg VanRoten was missed out in the story above, which is unfortunate as he is an interesting backup level candidate.

    I genuinely hope the team doesn’t draft a G with pick 32, but the FO will take the guy they think improves the pile the best.

  20. The Hawks are not taking a guard in the first round. An offensive tackle? Perhaps, if they see someone as a potential game 1 starter at RT – James or Bitonio.

    More likely they will select a dynamic athlete on the D line or a WR.

    They trust Cable to develop the O line in the later rounds, especially on the interior. And the depth is not as bad as some experts think, as Lemuel JP was resigned, Unger will be healthier, Bowie and Bailey can both play guard, and they signed the guy from the Packers who plays inside and has game experience. Plus a lighter, motivated James Carpenter.

  21. chuck_easton says:

    The message has been sent to Carp loud and clear. This is his make or break year. He comes into camp IN SHAPE and ready to compete or he will find himself gone by the end of the season (if not sooner).

    I always got the impression Carp was one of those players that bought into the idea that he was a 1st rounder so his spot was guaranteed.

    Let’s see what he does when he knows he has to work for it. If he continues to respond as he has in the past, he just doesn’t have the desire to play and he can walk next year. If some team gives him a chance it definitely won’t be for the kind of money he got from his rookie contract.

    My concern is he’ll be another Andre Smith. Guy was terrible until the contract year and then played lights out. Held out for the big payday and then immediately went right back into the tank once he got paid again.

  22. Jammer,

    Okay, I will change my phrasing from ‘this is wrong’ to ‘this is misleading’. Because it sure sounds like they drafted Bailey in the 7th round. No big deal, just wanted to point it out so Todd could correct if he wanted.

  23. fargomonkey says:

    I think there is truth to both ideas; that Wilson does tend to hold the ball a long time, though he slips out of and avoids sacks other QB’s would take, AND the lone is just not very good, though it really was very injured last year.

    In the end though, while the line could CLEARLY use an upgrade in a few spots, they did in fact win the Super Bowl with that line, so the formula the Seahawks are using is working, and shouldn’t be changed.

    Point is, I just want to see the Seahawks keep on doing what they’ve been doing, following Pete and John’s long term blueprint for the team, no matter how much media and fan pressure comes to bear against them to change.
    If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! And in case anyone wondered…it AIN’T BROKE!

    The really great thing about this particular draft is, the two areas where the team would seem to need help, just happen to be the two deepest parts of the draft, at wide receiver and the offensive line. Both of those areas of this draft are DEEP, seriously DEEP.
    That puts the Seahawks in a fantastic position this draft.
    The depth in this draft couldn’t have come along at a more opportune time for the Seahawks.
    It’s a really good time to be a Seahawks fan guys!

  24. pabuwal says:

    I’m surprised Bailey isn’t being penciled in at RT.

    A short, mobile QB will always take more sacks than a taller, immobile QB with similar pocket presence. However, like I said when they drafted Wilson, that will not stop him from being an elite QB. It’s the only drawback he has.

    I’m perfectly fine with an OL of Okung, Bowie, Unger, Sweezy and Bailey going into the season. More depth never hurts.

  25. Georgia–I havent seen anyone advocating drafting multiple linemen in a row this year, nor blowing up the line and starting from scratch, or even bringing in multiple FA linemen. Certainly I havent supported anything so drastic.

    I want a WR with our first pick, and a RT with the second. Thats it. And I dont want to see another oversized bloated G drafted to play RT. Enough, just get a guy who has pass pro talent and a tude, and coach him up–thats what Cable is for! You can teach run blocking, but pass pro takes not only skill but actual talent, and the struggles of all our RT’s since Cable got here are testament to that fact.

    And its not like either we keep the line intact and ride or die with what we already have, or else draft multiple linemen and spend huge dollars in free agency. No one but you has suggested that fixing the line means losing a ton of other players. None of that has to happen, and no one is saying we have to have a top-5, ELITE offensive line.

    But expecting to win another Super Bowl with a line like last seasons is just stupid. You do need a competent offensive line to win regularly, especially if you intend to be a run-first team and dont want your franchise qb turned into hamburger every third and long.

    All we have to do is find COMPETENT starting G’s and a RT. None of them need be Pro Bowlers, just AVERAGE. But so far, we might as well wish for the moon.

    Bowie showed he is a better player at LG and RG than anyone else on the roster, yet they are still trying to force him into the RT position that he’s just not suited for at the NFL level, and that frustrates me no end. Im still hopeful its smokescreen, and that he ends up starting at one G position. If that were to happen, we just need a decent RT and we’ve suddenly got an average to above avg line. Voila!

    As for beating a dead horse, as long as the line is struggling, that horse is alive and well and not doing its job–thus the well deserved beating. When the line is finally fixed, I will be gushing over them–but not until.

  26. Pabs–thats the line I would like to see, but sounds like Cable just wont give up on FatCarp, and wont give up on the idea he can make big slow guys play RT.

  27. Yes, there were times RW held the ball too long, but he generally avoided sacks when doing that. And there were many, many more instances where the line allowed pressure within two seconds, and only RW’s magnificent scrambling saved them from multiple-sacks per half.

    And if we had the Niners line, Lynch would have run for 1800 yards and 20 TD’s.

  28. pabuwal says:

    Yet the Niners line (considered to be the closest thing to a Fortress Line) was abused by the Seahawks DL.

    The Seahawks OL played well against bad to average defenses but average to bad against great defendes. That doesn’t sound too different than the 49ers Fortress Line.

    From the Saints Monday Night game to the NFC Championship game, the Seahawks faced nothing but great Defenses. Naturally their line looked below average. When they finally faced an average Defense in the Super Bowl, they played the role of the abusers.

    In terms of the OL and camp, I think the LG and RT will be totally open to competition and Bowie and Bailey will win out.

  29. ljarllrajl says:

    Yankey and Suo Filo are not 1st round talents. There is no pro-bowls in their futures.

  30. Pabs–Our offensive line played crap vs Denver, at least in the run game. Denvers D-line and LB’s abused Seattle’s offensive line all night–its just PC gameplanned for that, and whupped them with short passes and Harvin.

    I shudder to think what would have happened if Denver had Wolfe and Vickerson, not to mention their starting LT, C, CB etc.

    Our line looked avg at best in pass pro, and terrible in the run game that day. We won in spite of them, not because of them. And if we want another win, it will come with a better O-line or not at all.

    I give far more credit to PC’s game plan than to the line for the SB victory, not to mention the D.

  31. pabuwal says:

    You’re right that the run game struggled against Denver, but Denver had one of the better run defenses in the NFL. Good run games generally struggle against good run defenses, absent a big play here and there. Even back to the Hutchinson/Jones days, the Seahawks run game struggled against good run defenses. They made their yards against the low end Defenses.

    I didn’t get the sense that pass protection was an issue at all in the playoffs for the Seahawks, especially in the Denver game.

  32. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I recall the o-line not giving up a sack or a QB hit in the Super Bowl.
    I’ll take average pass protection any day if they play like they did in the Super Bowl.

    Also it was only the first half that our inside running game was shut down.

    I’ve only re watched the Super Bowl like 25 times now, and it never gets old. Lol.

  33. Todd Dybas says:


    I clarified the language. Thanks for pointing it out.

    — Todd

  34. It’s pretty clear to me that Denver keyed on stopping the run. You know, the whole ‘Russell Wilson is a game manager’ story line.

    That’s why Seattle was still throwing late in the game, because that’s what the defense was giving them.

  35. They have not invested more into their defense or QB than they have their OL. They have just hit on their later picks better. Their first ever pick was Okung and then ET. They later dedicated their first two picks the draft on OL. They also gave Gallery too much and then gave a big extension to Unger. They have significantly tried to invest into their OL, it’s just that it’s the only unit they haven’t exactly hit on the way they would have liked.

  36. Bobbyk–Exactly. Its not that they havent invested, its just that they’ve invested poorly. Moffitt was an unequivocal bust, and Carpnenter has one year to keep from ending up in the same boat. Gallery and McQ werent exactly worth the cost, Breno flamed out after one decent year, Unger battled multiple injuries last year, Sweezy is what you’d expect, and Okung has had one year in three where he was healthy.

    With the term genius being overused in this day and age, its annoying to hear it used in conjunction with JS and PC. Genius’s dont draft Carpenters and Moffitts, then try to make due with guys like Sweezy, McQ, and Giacomini (who got paid something like 4.5 million to suck last year).

    I trust JS and PC as much as the next guy, probably more than most, but their picks on the O-line are terrible. Their track record thus far is poor on the O-line. Im hopeful that ends this year.

    It wouldnt surprise me if they took a DE and a WR with their first two picks though. Cable wants a big slow footed RT and he thinks he has that in Bowie. Im betting if they go that route this year, Bowie is starting at G in 2015 and Carp is history…but time will tell.

  37. The whole point of the ZBS is to get 3-4 yards per play NO MATTER WHAT. In other words, to be able to run when everyone in the stadium knows youre going to, and to do it with low-round guys no one else wants.

    If our line worked the way its supposed to, Lynch would be challenging SA’s record of 28 TD’s rushing, instead of sitting around 11-12 every year.

  38. Singularitarian says:

    People recommend that Joel Bitonio move to guard but he is very much a tackle, at least in college

  39. Southendzone says:

    “Geniuses don’t draft Carp & Moffitt”?

    They are irrefutable geniuses in their field and selecting some under-performing OL players don’t make it untrue.

    What JS/PC did with this team was phenomenal. They scoured every corner of the earth to bring in new talent. Had more roster turnover than was ever seen before in the league. Instilled a culture of winning. Brought home the Lombardi to Seattle. No other GM/HC combo would have gotten it done for us.

    By that logic, Ty Cobb wasn’t a great hitter because he failed 63% of the time.

    By that logic, Albert Einstein wasn’t a genius because he made mistakes in his first 7 proofs of E=mc2.

    Lombardi: Renton, WA

    case closed.

  40. MoSeahawk12 says:

    It’s not like they took a punter in the 3rd round. There isn’t one GM/coach combo that hits 100% now or in the history of this sport or any sport. Moffit decided he didn’t want to play and they shipped him off regardless of where he was drafted. That’s on Moffit, plan and simple. Pre draft guides had Moffit rated pretty high, so it’s not like they just drove through the Taco Bell drive through and signed the guy taking their order. Also, the injuries where very real last year and when three of your five starting O-lineman miss half the season, you will be lucky to win nine games, let alone sixteen. Bashing the O-line day in and day out without acknowledging that limits your stance. You never mention the success in the playoffs against top defenses, including over 100 for Lynch against the 9ers. Only player all season. It’s not like they abandoned the run after being down 10-0 early in that game. Todd as a professional writer has provided context for the line and to discard that information truly shows you think you know more than the guys running the show. Time to update your GM resume. This blog is just holding you back.

  41. freedom_X says:

    As far as the personnel acumen of Schneider and Carroll – did they or didn’t they win a Super Bowl? Isn’t the team still considered to be loaded with young talent?

    Anyone who can bring a NFL championship to Southern Alaska is a genius to me.

  42. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Good point Southendzone.

    I read somewhere the other day that 50% of all first round picks become busts so I would guess that the percentage would be higher for late first rounders.

    Hopefully that won’t apply to Carp, Irvin or this year’s first round pick.

    Btw- One thing I would like to see improve on the o-line is for them to cut down on those drive killing penalties.
    Even in the Super Bowl there were three or four of those.
    Two by Okung.

  43. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Oh no! I just gave more fuel to STTBM.


  44. South–Irrefutable geniuses?! Now who’s on to hyperbole? Genius, again, is a drastically overused word nowadays. I wouldnt go so far as to label either PC or JS a genius just yet.

    In 30 plus years of watching NFL football, I can only name two flat-out Genius coaches; Bellicheat and Bill Walsh. Im not bestowing that label on everyone who wins a SB, thats for sure. But to each his own.

    Mo–You are exactly right, no one hits on all their picks. Not even the sainted Bill Walsh. And yes, I am aware and have discussed the injuries to Seattle’s line. However, both before the injuries and after, Seattle’s line played much worse than in the second half of 2012, which was a major disappointment.

    Yeah, I think Todd’s logic in this article is garbage. He quite often makes opinionated statements that are later proven illogical and/or untrue, yet I have never seen him admit to it. Again, you dont need to be an expert to notice when a guy attempts to block a man, only to fail to hold the block, leading to a busted play. Nor do you need to be an expert to rank Seattle’s offensive line performance as a whole as below average by a good bit over the last year.

    As for the line’s performance in the playoffs, they struggled a good bit vs NO and flat sucked at run blocking in the SB, and Im giving a good bit of the credit to Lynch for just being a beast in the Title game. The line still wasnt good, and insisting it was is just silly.

    Even though you are far less analytical than I am–and often attempt to legitimize a terrible O-line by making broad sweeping statements like “Well, they were good enough to win a Super Bowl”–you appear to bleieve that you are an expert, and therefore your opinion superior to mine; yet you offer little or no analysis of plays or critiques of individual players nor even a logical rebuttal.

    As usual, simply because Im not ready to anoint JS and PC as geniuses, someone has to spazz out. As usual, suggesting that the offensive line is below avg and in serious need of an upgrade at 2-3 positions causes the lumpers to have a coronary. You can bet JS and PC know damn well the line wasnt up to par, and have a plan to address it, and you can bet your ass they arent gonna stand pat, reasoning “Well, they were good enough to win the SB, so lets just keep the line as-is”.

  45. Georgia–I would love to see a 10-year break down of first round picks, and how many were labeled busts. Heck, Im willing to take one guys opinion on it, just for fun. Bucky Brooks isnt perfect, but he’s ok, he could do it. 50% bust rate sounds high to me, but I havent counted so it could be true…

    I think the penalties were a case of Okung being out of shape and playing hobbled by injuries more than anything. When youre not yourself, you compensate by holding, you get sloppy. Okung’s injuries have to be a real concern moving forward…

    And yeah, as much as Ive stood up for Irvin, with him being older than the avg, he’s really got to show something this year. At least we have ET and Harvin to watch this year, they are first rounders, and if Harvin can just stay healthy he’ll surely be no bust.

  46. Southendzone says:

    What makes a genius?

    “exceptional intellectual or creative power or other natural ability’

    PC/JS are the reigning champions of innovation in terms of personnel moves & philosophy.

    Sherman, Maxwell, Browner, RW, Baldwin, Red Bryant, Lynch, Bennett, Competition, Win Forever. The whole idea of tall corners & PC’s cover-3 scheme.

    How do you measure it?

    Develop under-valued players into superstars? CHECK
    One of the best statistical defenses ever? CHECK
    2 of the best defensive players in the league on your team? CHECK
    Win the Superbowl? CHECK

  47. EzraMelech says:

    @STTBM I’ll agree with you that I wouldn’t use the word “genius” when it comes to JS/PC, however, that being said I would say they are VERY good. One last caveat, they are only as good as the people they surround themselves with. Remember, they are the ones making the final decision, but they have lots and lots of info they get from their scouts and other coaches.

    Here’s what it boils down to in my humble opinion. PC is a very very good defensive minded coach, and a defensive talent evaluator. Though I’m sure he has many scouts giving him info, plus the fact until recently he was intimately familiar with lots of college level talent our “home runs” on defense are because that’s PC’s strength.

    Russell Wilson from all I have read was JS’s brainchild, he saw him liked him, evaluated him as a good Quarterback and sold PC on picking him up. I believe with all the experience and people he’s been around that JS is a good to very good Talent evaluator “overall”.

    Where I think our OLine failures have come is from scouting and even more important Tom Cable. Again this is just my humble opinion, but I don’t rate Cable as a good Talent evaluator. I believe he is above average to maybe good OLine coach, but not talent evaluator.

    I really think Cable has been the one pushing JS/PC to make the moves they have. Now if they Trust Cable, who else are they going to listen to when making draft choices? Hopefully, they have learned from last couple years that maybe cable isn’t the best to listen to in this situation, and maybe they have made some changes on how they scout OLineman. “shrug”

    Who knows… My long winded point is Top GM’s, Managers, Coaches etc, are at least partially only as good as the people they surround themselves with. The best know their own strengths and weaknesses and surround themselves with people who make them better in the weak areas. I think JS/PC have been astounding in this area (but can always improve more)

    So maybe Genius’s is a bit overused, but it’s not entirely inaccurate.


  48. Ezra–You bring up some excellent points. One of the things that made Walsh a genius was his Miles Davis-like ability to spot–and hire–the very brightest minds as assistant coaches. Just as Davis’ band members all ended up leading band of their own and becoming stars, so too practically every single one of Walsh’s assistants became head coaches, and many moved up the chain to coordinator. Mike Holmgren was very similar (he was one of those young up-and-comers Walsh found), in that he hired excellent assistants. With Holmy though, it became apparent when he stopped hiring young talent, and relied on old friends (once in Seattle) that much of his success was in fact due to his hired help, and not his own “genius”, unlike Walsh. And when he stopped hiring younger guys, he began to lose his edge.

    All I meant was Im not ready to anoint JS and PC geniuses just yet. I think JS is one of the best GM’s in the world, but he’s got to start hitting some home runs in the first round besides ET, and fix that line, before I dub him a Genius.

    I remember discussing the Genius thing with some folks on another blog years back, and someone there had the Scarcity of Genius Theory all mapped out. It made sense. The only guy as a playerI can feel solid naming as a genius is Peyton Manning, maybe Lofa Tatupu before him.

    Think about it. Real Geniuses are not just those at the top of their field, they are much rarer than that. Geniuses: Phil Jackson maybe, Miles Davis, Muhammad Ali, Tesla, Einstein…notice Im not naming Bill Parcells, Joe Gibbs, or even Joe Montana (not sure on him). True genius is rare.

  49. pabuwal says:

    You’ll only know someone is a genius until after the fact.

    An average OL will always look bad against a great Defense. Does that mean the solution is to run out and get a great OL? But, a great OL like the 49ers looked bad against a great Defense in the NFC Championship Game. They couldn’t run and they couldn’t protect the QB.

    How many teams have won a SB this century with a great OL? 2009 Saints, 2000 Ravens. Anyone else? More teams have won a SB this century with an average to bad OL than a great one.

    The moral of this story, striving for a great OL and pining for interchangeable players like Steve Hutchinson is pointless (oh no, I went there – now I’m an idiot!). A moral which was pointed out in the middle of last season, before the Seahawks won the SB and the complaints about the OL were the loudest.

  50. SRVHawk says:

    Arguing the semantics of the word “genius” is utterly pointless IMO. PC/JS have done with the Hawks something that is very rare in the NFL. They’re certainly at the top of their field. That’s not something most people that flap their gums on here can truthfully claim, myself included.

    It’s almost as if some would rather have a great o-line and confirm their biases than to follow the proven course that has been set here. Many conflate their opinion with some kind of professional or objective evaluation. And have the nerve to criticize Todd when he simply provides some context. I also wonder what would become of some if they didn’t have the o-line to constantly bitch about?

    “I read somewhere the other day that 50% of all first round picks become busts so I would guess that the percentage would be higher for late first rounders.”

    Georgia, I’ve read that and posted it many times here in the past in an attempt to dispel the popular fallacy that JS/PC have been BAD in the 1st round. They’ve been somewhere around average. People just get tunnel-vision and lose sight of what the context is.

    Whether or not it is 50/50 in the 1st round is obviously subjective. It depends on how you rate the players and what expectations you place on them. When I’ve gone back through some past 1st rounds and looked, 50/50 seems at least close to right to me.

  51. Seattle’s offensive line was terrible the first half of 2012, then picked it up considerably the last half of the year. They reverted to form in 2013, before, during and after the injury problems took starters out of the lineup.

    No one is saying we have to rank 5th in rushing stats and pass pro to win consistently. But getting somewhere between 15th and 20th in pass pro, and remaining in the top 4-7 in rushing should be a workable goal without breaking the bank on the cost of personnel along the line.

    Now, Im talking subjective ranking without taking into account RW and Lynch, which is virtually impossible to do. But the line wasnt nearly good enough last year, and I think we’re gonna need a decent line more than ever now, as we begin having to pay guys and start losing them to FA.

  52. And total yards gained via the run is a flawed stat to use for judging a line’s performance. YPC is a lot more indicative of their ranking, and Seattle’s fell more than a ypc from 2012 to 2013, and I dont believe Lynch lost that much of a step.

  53. EzraMelech says:

    STTBM I’ll agree with everything you said – one thing. I would label Lombardie, Belichick, Gibbs, Landry, Walsh a genius in “their field”. LOL Joe Montana might have been what made Walsh a “genius” *Grin. IIRC Walsh won every Super Bowl with Montana, (would he have won with another Quarterback?) Thats a question for another day… I regress.

    There are the few Geniuses like Tesla, Einstein who had just brilliant overall minds period. But there are many more who are Geniuses in their own rights in their particular field of study or talent. We can name Musical geniuses as example of there bright in one aspect, but not very smart in others…

    Anyway.. JS/PC aren’t geniuses “yet” I’ll agree, but if they keep up this run in a few years i’ll be ready to anoint them with that title. We’ll see.


  54. EzraMelech says:

    And sorry for the typo’s i’m doing this on stupid iPhone…

  55. pabuwal says:

    Has any team won a SB with such great, young talent but have gotten so little out of their 1st round draft picks in that Super Bowl winning year? Thomas is the only 1st round pick who outperformed his draft position in 2013. Certainly, Okung, Carpenter, Irvin and Harvin did not outperform their draft positions last year.

    It’s been a long time since the Seahawks faced the caliber of defenses they faced when they played NO, SF, NYG, Arizona, STL, NO and SF to finish last year. If they played a lesser caliber of defenses (aka any team not in the NFC West or NFC South), the argument on how bad their Offensive Line is would be very difficult to make. I actually pointed this out before this very same stretch last year. I am going to go so far as to say that the 2005 line wouldn’t have had too much more success in this stretch than the 2013 line did). They would have been better, but not by much as everyone thinks.

  56. SRV–“Picking out the guard or tackle who was misplaced during a play can be a chore. The results of others tend to tell the story of the line, particularly failure: Can’t run? Line’s fault. Sacked a lot? The line’s fault.”

    Um, yeah, like I said; Its not all that hard to see Giacomini fail to seal the edge and so hold his man, bringing back a HUGE run by Turbin. Its not hard to notice FatCarp get run past on a third down…

    When Lynch is getting 72 of his first 85 yards from scrimmage AFTER CONTACT, YEAH, I’d say blame the line. And while RW did cause a few sacks by holding the ball for eternity, he ran away from instantaneous pressure far more often. That mid-season stretch where he was getting the crap beat out of him every play? Yeah, I blame the line.

    Again, you dont need to be an expert to see McQ/Carp were awful, and so was Giac. You dont need to be an expert to see the line wasnt particularly good.

    I dont call what Todd wrote context. Its a lame excuse for an under performing line.

  57. To be fair Pabs, Okung and Harvin had serious injuries. Those happen. And both fought manfully to return too soon from them. Yeah, I we’d drafted Muhammad Wilkerson and anyone besides Irvin and Carp, but they have one more year to find their mojo–lets hope its 2014!

  58. MoSeahawk12 says:

    So by providing stats that support the line had success in the playoffs with Lynch going for over 100 against the 9er and leading all rushers in the playoffs isn’t enough for you smart guy? I have often listed stats that support the fact that the oline had a lot of success during the playoffs, even though they went against top defenses that stacked the line to stop Lynch. Because we all know you think your opinion is the only one we want to hear all day. Somebody certainly enjoys the sound of their own typing…
    The line will be different this year. There will be at least two new starters. They have a lot of room for improvement. Injuries on the Oline make a huge difference in performance. Continuity and inexperience are two killers of oline play. This is not high school football. This team had that in spades last year. But please keep blaming Cable as he was forced to insert two late round rookies for half the season. You give Cable too much blame and too much credit for the power you think he has.

    For someone as analytical as you think you are you spend most of your time spewing hyperbole and resorting to childish name calling of players. I’ve certainly never expressed myself as an expert, yet anyone that disagrees with you or calls you out on the same three topics that you live in are speaking only in broad sweeping statements. Who was the one that said the line was an Epic Fail!. Or my HS dline would beat our oline? Those are clearly hyperbole, sweeping statements that an analytical person wouldn’t make.

    I’m out of the as the line turns takeovers. It’s May and the draft is in three days. I’m looking forward to that topic.

  59. Southendzone says:

    Both of our FA O line were signed on the open market this offseason. If only those GMs would have read the tnt blog think of the money they could have saved.

  60. Mo–Whats with your propensity for insults, sarcasm, and faint praise? If you hate discussing the line so much, and you cant be civil–which, I remind you, is part of the rules of this blog–then why are you repeat commenting on here?

    Remind me of your stats that disprove ProFootballFoucus’ advanced stats that not only paint Seattle’s line as one of the worst in the league all year, but individuals like Gaicomini, Sweezy, and Carp/McQ as among the very worst in the league at their positions. We all know that even intelligent stat geeks with all-22 film wont know the ins and outs of each play, but My God Man, to say anyone who thinks the line isnt great is an idiot is simply mind-boggling. Are you for real?

    Lynch ran for 100 yards vs the Niners, and most of the credit lies with him. What about vs NO and vs Denver?

    As for my opinion being the only one people want to hear, thats obviously rubbish. A) while a good number of folks think the line wasnt good enough last year, we can all agree my opinions arent the most popular and B) Most of my posts are rebuttals or replies to comments others–including you–post towards me. Wouldnt it be rude to simply ignore multiple comments directed at me?

    Again, this is a blog about the Seahawks, and this very thread is about the offensive line, and who’s to blame for their performance. Thats what I am discussing, as much as I see fit to. If you dont wish to discuss the relevant topic, then dont–but dont bash those like me who are following blog rules and wish to discuss the line.

  61. South–Har!

  62. Southendzone says:

    I bet you a hundred bucks that Todd puts up posts like these with a giant smile on his face, then invites his buddies over to drink beers and watch us bicker about the same shit every day.

  63. SRVHawk says:

    “, but My God Man, to say anyone who thinks the line isnt great is an idiot is simply mind-boggling. Are you for real?”

    Talk about a straw man argument. Who ever said that?

  64. SRV–Not in so many words, but he’s come pretty close. Have you read the reams of comments he’s directed at me–all while castigating me for commenting too much?!

  65. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Please show me where I said “to say anyone who thinks the line isnt great is an idiot” please, I can wait.
    I have never said the line is great and anyone that thinks otherwise is an idiot. You really like to put words in other peoples posts. Maybe you should work on reading comprehension and less hiding behind the blog rules threats that you love to make. You have violated as much as anyone. You don’t want to go there.
    In case you would like actual game facts.
    Lynch carried 28 times for 140 yards and two touchdowns against the Saints.
    The Seahawks rushed for 118 of their 174 yards between the tackles, the most allowed by the Saints defense in a game this season.
    Marshawn Lynch eclipsed at least 130 rushing yards for the third time in his postseason career. Only Terrell Davis and Thurman Thomas have more 130-plus games since the current playoff format started in 1990.

    Are you for real?

  66. MoSeahawk12 says:

    What would Josh Brown say?

  67. MO–Thats what I got from all your comments. You cant stand to admit Seattle’s offensive line performed among the bottom of the league, and anyone who says as much gets roundly criticized and attacked by you.

    Ive only ever answered back–you continually and repeatedly insult me, and you know it. You continually invent your own blog rules–the constant “You like your opinions too much” or “You post too many comments” type of thing gets really old.

    You are right, my bad, Seattle DID block well vs the run against NO in the playoffs. As you say, the majority was between the tackles. They couldnt block for squat in the SB, even with 2 of the top 3 DT’s for Denver out due to injury.

    Keep your sarcastic namecalling to yourself (“Smart Guy”), and remember; this is a blog for those who wish to discuss all things Seahawks; and this particular thread is devoted to the offensive line. If youre not into the discussion, then dont join it. I happen to want to discuss the line, as its the only glaring weakness on this team. And Im going to post as much or as little of my opinions on that subject as I want, regardless of whether it pleases you.

  68. Josh Brown would say something totally irrelevant and likely insane. Kind of like some commenters on here…

  69. MoSeahawk12 says:

    No what I can’t stand is one poster that only bashes the oline and never acknowledges the massive injuries they suffered. There is not another poster here that leaves that part out. It’s not anyone, it’s just you. I don’t care that they performed near the bottom of the league as there are viable reasons for that. You have been called out on this by a lot of us here. It’s not just me, last week there were at least half a dozen other posters that mentioned this and yet you live in Egypt.
    4.7 yards per rush in the Superbowl in case you were curious of how bad they sucked.

  70. EzraMelech says:

    Mo and STTBM,

    1. Remember, typing, texting, writing etc is the “WORST” form of communication there is. You cannot read body language, hear tone of voice etc. Words are only something like 15% of communication. So it’s very easy for “ANYONE” to take something thats written here out of context.

    2. This is a blog for discussion and even disagreement, but we can all do it without resulting in name calling or bashing another blogger. Argue, make your points, but in end agree to disagree without belittling another. “Thats the essence of the blog rules. MO YES i’m pointing fingers here.

    3. Last but certainly not least, EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion. Even if at times that opinion seems outlandish or by most sane persons view is wrong. Irregardless we can discuss it all and even tussle and squabble at one another without being overly rude!!!!

    Best policy is to use “facts” or stats and try to make your argument… then reason. Nobody wins when someone says “your an idiot and your wrong”.. Thus the reason I preface many of my statements with IMHO.

    My2CentsWorth. Play nice all please!!! ;)

  71. Mo–Im not leaving the injuries out. They had a detrimental effect on the line’s performance. Ive never once said that it didnt affect the line to have so many injuries. Ive posted many comments about Unger and Okung not being themselves all year, likely due to injury.

    But McQ and Sweezy werent hurt, they just didnt play well. Giacomini wasnt playing well before he got hurt, and didnt play well after he came back. Bowie wasnt good at RT, but he played well at RG and LG. Carp had nagging injuries, but played all year–at a rather less than avg level.

    And this week there are at least half a dozen commenters here who agree that the line isnt good, and that injuries are not the main reason for that.

    And in point of fact, if JS and PC thought that McQ and Giacomini did such a fine job, they would have kept them; instead, both players got their walking papers and were told their services were no longer needed here. And if JS and PC thought Carpenter was playing well, they might have exercised his option to ensure they keep him around while working out a long-term deal; but that didnt happen, did it?

    The difference between our positions is you ignore the fact that our line–with the starters–came out sucking right off the bat, and continued to stuck after they all got healthy enough to play. Yes, Okung and Unger never healed 100% and their play reflected that. But the rest dont have injuries for excuses.

    Yeah, that 4.7 yards per rush includes 2 rushed for 45 yards by Percy Harvin on a trick play ran twice. Outside that, what was the ypc for Lynch, RW, and Turbo? Not much, thats what. Lynch avg 2.6 ypc, Turbin 2.8 ypc. Yep, thats smokin’ good blocking! RW avg 8.7 yards per rush, 16 of those on one play.

    On actual (non-trick play) running plays, Seattle ran 24 times for 64 yards. Thats less than 3.0 ypc! Hardly the stuff SB champions are usually made of. Which is why I give tremendous credit to PC for recognizing the likelihood that Denver would sell out to stop the run, and gameplanned accordingly with short passes off-set by timely trick plays.

    Stats can be used to lie, unless they come with a little analysis. But you dont do analysis. You just look for facts that back up your broad-based opinion. And thats fine–youre a Big Picture guy, a lumper not a splitter. There’s nothing wrong with that, except you think that makes you a better person, and it doesnt.

    Face it, the line sucked at run blocking in the SB. 2.7 ypc between Turbin and Lynch. Lynch, the toughest player in the NFL!

    You keep saying I refuse to take into account the O-line injuries, but its just not true. But go ahead, believe what you choose. Mo-land must be an interesting place, to say the least..

  72. Ezra–Thank you for being the voice of reason.

    I have lots of fun arguing/debating with the commenters on this blog. Once in awhile, I even change my mind due to someone’s arguments! But its no fun to be belittled and called sarcastic names on a consistent basis.

    And Ive told Mo–and others–numerous times during discussions that they are welcome to their opinion, even as they are telling me to stop commenting simply because I post more than they like, and have a differing opinion.

  73. Southendzone says:

    What? Body language and tone don’t come through in blog posts?

    Why do I spend so much time & effort trying to be a sarcastic prick then? I give up.

  74. EzraMelech says:

    South, Don’t give up my friend. You do an admirable job of being that sarcastic prick!!! *Grin j/k. LOL
    (Did my joking tone come thru?)


  75. Mo–


    How about you stop being the Pot calling the Kettle black?! More quotes from you:

    “Because we all know you think your opinion is the only one we want to hear all day.”

    “Somebody certainly enjoys the sound of their own typing…”

    Or how about when youre simply insulting:

    “What would Josh Brown say?”, and “and yet you live in Egypt.” and “Maybe you should work on reading comprehension and less hiding behind the blog rules threats that you love to make” or how about “…and leading all rushers in the playoffs isn’t enough for you smart guy?”

    Yes, Ive used hyperbole. Do you really believe I think my old HS football team could outplay any NFL team, ever?! Some hyperbole was used to try to inject humor into a tense discussion, some to let off steam, but never in utter seriousness. I enjoy writing with reckless exaggeration from time to time.

    And you dont? How about:

    “so it’s not like they just drove through the Taco Bell drive through and signed the guy taking their order.”

    Hyperbole, plain and simple. Of course I realize how you meant it, and Im not bashing you for using it. Its a legit way of making a point. But when you call me out for past use of hyperbole, and then the same is obvious in many of your earlier comments to me, it just makes you look churlish and a bit cracked.

    Im going to discuss the line as much or as little as I choose, so you might as well learn to deal with it. And you are welcome to disagree with my opinions, any and all points I make, etc. Just be aware that I expect you to stop insulting, belittling, and in general trying your damndest to rile me. And if you do offer a rebuttal to a comment of mine, Im probably going to respond in kind…

    Believe it or not, when youre not being a troll (inslting, belittling, and/or goading me), I enjoy discussing our opposing viewpoints on things like the line. And while you either ignore it or dont notice it, we agree on things from time to time.

  76. More of Mo putting words into others mouths:

    “you think you know more than the guys running the show.”

    and, “Time to update your GM resume. This blog is just holding you back.”

    Stay classy dude!

  77. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Right after you Sears…

  78. Would you or would you not say that you too have used hypberbole? Would you or would you not say that you are a fine example of pot calling kettle black, what with all the insults and putting of words in my mouth?

    And by the way, all those quotes above were from this thread alone.

  79. Do you feel that those quotes are acceptable behavior Mo?

  80. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Yes blog doctor, when it comes to dealing with you and your superiority complex. You can dish it out, but can never take it.
    Enjoy the rest of your day.
    The draft is around the corner and that is should prove more interesting than this, for all of us.

  81. Skavage says:

    @Pab – Normally I think your comments are well thought out and make sense. Some I agree with. Some I don’t. But you typically have good input with some thought and reasoning behind it.

    However this…

    “A short, mobile QB will always take more sacks than a taller, immobile QB with similar pocket presence.”

    …makes no sense at all. No way a short, mobile QB takes more sacks than a taller immobile QB.

    Unless you were to put some qualifiers in there like saying the tall immobile guy has a quick release or plays in a West Coast dink and dunk passing game…I might agree. But given no difference between the two except height and mobility, the tall guy’s going to be sitting on his ass more often than the short guy. :)

  82. Mo–If anyone here has a Superiority Complex, its you and not me.

    And I would say those quotes prove to everybody that its YOU who dishes it out, but cant take it.

    You are very good at projection. Perhaps you should read some psychology someday….

  83. BobbyK says:

    As I said the other day, there are various ways to win a Super Bowl. There is no perfect blueprint (other than generally having a good QB)… only building a philosophy and sticking to it.

    With that being said, this team has sucked at getting OL talent overall (I think Bowie will dispell that idea if he’s allowed to play Guard though). They have heavily invested in the OL and have been burned by it (Carpitt/Gallery). What they have done with unit in terms of investment clearly shows that Mr. Happy and the Duke Boy care about building a good OL.

    Most fans will tell you that the LOB was a bigger reason the team won the OL. The LOB consists of ET and a bunch of late round picks that they “heavily invested” in in terms of draft compensation or free agent additions.

    In case you have trouble comprehending that – they have not invested much in the secondary, but did in the OL. It’s ironic that the OL sucks but the secondary is awesome. Sure, you can say they did invest a 1st rounder in ET but then you have to concede that Okung was taken before ET in that same draft (i.e. another example of a bigger investment to the OL than the DBs).

    Mr. Happy and the Duke Boy clearly want a good OL if we judge their actions in terms of free agent investment (Gallery) or draft pick investment (two of four 1st round picks they have made have gone on OL) so for anyone to think they “plan” to suck on the OL because they have used all their resources on other units is pure lunacy, imo.

  84. SRVHawk says:

    I don’t think anyone would say that JS/PC want an o-line that sucks, obviously. That’s insanity. They want every position to be as good as possible. The discussion is the importance of different positions and the resources they are willing to allocate to said positions.

    I would argue that they have not invested anything very significant into the o-line the last 2 1/2 years. Gallery, Carp, and Moffitt were all in 2011. They drafted three 7th round o-lineman in 2012-13 and added no significant free agent additions there. This in spite of them having one of the worst o-lines in the league according to some.

    This draft should provide more evidence of how important they see the o-line and what expectations they have for players like Bowie and Bailey. I don’t see them automatically taking an o-lineman in the 1st. I see them taking the BPA from a few different positions, o-line being one of them, if they cannot trade down. We’ll know Thursday.

    And for as much as some belittle Breno, an NFL team paid him 4.5 mil a year for 4 years to play for them this off-season. You could say it’s really only 3.5 mil a year if you want to split his guaranteed 7 mil up over the first 2 years of the contract. They did not do this in a vacuum. Presumably the Jets wouldn’t have paid him that if they didn’t reasonably believe that another team was willing to pay him something at least comparable.

    BTW, Breno is the 10th highest paid RT currently if you go by average per year and the 9th highest paid if you go by guaranteed per year.

  85. I kind of think they were forced to invest in the line, and when thier investment didnt pan out, they quit investing as heavily.

    As for the Jets paying Breno because they think another team would pay him that, I disagree; they lost their RT who was ranked near Breno–at the bottom–and are a crappy team few are interested in joining. They HAD to overpay to get him, just as Seattle overpaid to get Rice, Gallery, and even good guys like Miller, back in the day.

    Breno is a stop-gap 2-3 plug they signed so they can wait for a decent RT without having to reach. A smart move by Idzik. Breno is also a good locker room dude, and he’s tough and nasty and wants to win–all things the Jets need so badly they would probably put up with a terrible player if he had those traits. And Breno isnt terrible, just near terrible.

  86. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Another insane notion is the thought that Bowie will only be good at Guard because he looked good in the one game he played in.

    He may very well be but one game is such a small sample size to truly evaluate if he will be better at Guard or Tackle imo.

    How good would he be at Guard if other teams have a few games to study his tendencies?

    How many times have we seen a backup QB come into a game and play lights out only to look like a backup again when a team has a few game tapes on him.

    Hopefully Bowie will end up being a good T or G for us but to say he is the best Guard we have after one game and that is the best position for the Seahawks to play him for the o-lines success is foolishly premature.

  87. BobbyK says:

    You don’t know how many games Bowie has started. It was two. He was good in each one. One was against studs in Campbell and Dockett. The other was about a month later against NO. He played well and I was shocked he didn’t play again. If you can come in and play strong, quick, and physical… That’s good. You can’t get lucky at guard and knock someone down. It’s different than some positions where it appears a rb, de, or QB can have a lucky game.

  88. Georgia–Good point, but G is a far cry from qb. Bowie held his own at RT for 8 games, and played well at both RG and LG. At RG he started vs Darnell Dockett, and looked better than Sweezy ever has. I think its a lot less likely that studying a G’s tendencies will give a D a way to beat them than studying what makes a qb make mistakes.

    It may indeed be premature to say he’s our best G, but then again, he outplayed Carp at RT, Carp at LG, and Sweezy at RG, so why wouldnt we think he can make a competent G from the get-go, and perhaps be a stud?

    Think about it; you’ve insisted Sweezy is a “beast”, and yet despite two full years as starter (give or take),he’s still not good. Bowie comes in vs top competition at both G positions and plays better than Sweeezy, and all you can say is its Backup-QB-itis? Ok, why didnt Sweezy come in and play well right off the bat? Because while he was playing DT in college–as a backup no less–teams in the NFL studied his tendencies and gameplanned for him?! I think not.

    And Bowie made less mental errors than Sweezy makes even though it was his first game ever at RG. Vs. Dockett!

    No, there’s no definitive proof Bowie would be a good G, but I think his play at RT and his two starts goes a long way towards convincing us.

  89. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I’m not saying Bowie is trash like some claim Sweezy has been, even though Sweezy arguably had the best post season of them all on the o-line. What I’m saying is it’s too early to say he is better for us at Guard than Tackle, and that some of the Hyper Bowie that I’m hearing is premature.

  90. SRVHawk says:

    I like Bowie going forward, but he just might be the most overrated Hawk on this blog the way some drool over him.

    Bowie did show improvement the more he played at RT, though I wouldn’t say he ever played well over there. He was flat out awful versus the Rams. They have a great D-line though.

    For as much as some people want to prattle on about Bowie’s greatness and how much Carp and Sweezy suck, Bowie was riding the pine in the postseason and they were not. A SB winning coaching staff decided that they were better options. With all due respect, I’ll take the evaluation of this coaching staff over anyone’s on this blog. Expect to see Sweezy at RG and Bowie battling to play at RT or LG in 2014.

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