Seahawks Insider

Morning Links: Moving on from Allen

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on March 27, 2014 at 9:36 am with 47 Comments »
March 27, 2014 9:36 am

Good morning.

Was Jared Allen a need? No. Would he have been a nice surplus? Of course.

Our Dave Boling says Allen would not have been worth the salary cap hit for the Seahawks. From Boling:

Sometimes it takes a season or two to realize, but when it comes to free agency, it’s often the moves you don’t make that are the best.

But oh, how appealing the sacking, tackling, defensive dervish Jared Allen had to have looked during his flirtation with the Seattle Seahawks.

Picture Hawks general manager John Schneider in a room with the imposing Allen, conversing about all the ways he could make the team better.

Everybody knew Allen wanted big money. And he’s still worth a substantial payday. Certainly the Chicago Bears thought so, forking over a reported $15.5 million guaranteed on a four-year deal topping out at an unlikely $32 million.

Seattle’s judicious offer was said to be two years for $12 million.

How tempting must it have been to try to stretch the numbers to make it work? Sure, we can figure a way to juggle the salary cap later. We can’t allow this guy to leave town. Just look at him. And watch this video of him gobbling quarterbacks.

And that’s the moment you get yourself in trouble, when you give in to impulse purchases. That’s the path to ending up strangled with back-end dead money as you pay off free agents suddenly past their use-by dates.

The Seahawks will still have to find a couple defensive line answers. Pete Carroll said at the NFL meetings that Tony McDaniel will replace Red Bryant and Cliff Avril will replace Chris Clemons. They have Benson Mayowa, Jesse Williams (assuming he is healed), Greg Scruggs (assuming he is healed) and Jordan Hill as internal options for the line.

It will also be interesting to see what they do with Bruce Irvin. He seems to make sense more as a situational pass rusher.


> Pete Carroll talks about repeating.

> Jim Harbaugh on attacking the Seahawks (on the field). He says he’s laid awake at night thinking about how San Francisco would have done against Denver in the Super Bowl.

> Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay had $29,000 in cash on him when he was arrested, according to police.

> USA Today says the NFL is on track to improving the work culture.

> Scouts say Pro Days are a tiny part of their evaluations, which they should be. They are fully orchestrated in a controlled environment. Johnny Manziel just wrapped up his, which was televised live.

> A rundown of the votes on rules and bylaws at the league meetings. Not everything was ruled on, including changing pass interference to be called within one yard of the line of scrimmage, which was tabled.

Leave a comment Comments → 47
  1. WiscCory says:

    “It will also be interesting to see what they do with Bruce Irvin. He seems to make sense more as a situational pass rusher.”

    I agree. I’m just as interested in Seattle adding better competition to the LB core (and the D-line).

    However I’m most excited to see what happens with the O-line – wouldn’t mind a little FA money going there. Happy for Breno and McQ, however happier of the message that out Oline will be quite different come Sep 7.

  2. Boling’s article is “right on the money” IMO. Win now at all costs = Redskins or Cowboys mired in mediocrity and salary cap hell. Disciplined, smart moves and developing low round draft talent = youngest team to win superbowl in history and possibly a team that is close or in the super bowl every year for years to come. Rock on Schneider, you da man.

  3. bird_spit says:

    I’d want John Schneider investing my money. Congrats to the Hawks organization for managing this correctly.

  4. Re Irvin, sometimes he reminds me of Curry in terms of intelligence. But then other times he makes amazing plays defending the pass which I never would have expected. I would love to see Irvin with an individual “tutor” pass rush specialist and perfect that art. It seems to me kid has the physical talent. Perhaps the instincts, moves, and play recognition could be improved through intense “tutoring”? Maybe Irvin won’t have the football intelligence of a Baldwin, Sherman, or Wilson who spend tons of energy and time on the mental, film study, etc. side of the game. But maybe developing crazy strong film study habits through a “personal trainer” style pass rush specialist tutor. That alone would improve his game a ton. Heck if his agent wanted the most for Irvin (and thus himself) the agent should hire him a tireless “tutor” who will push Irvin all the time to learn, learn, learn and not rely too heavily on athleticism alone. Just thinking out loud and I may be wrong on that.

  5. edstang45 says:

    I’m with you bird_spit very happy we didn’t over spend on a 32yr old….can’t wait to see who JS pulls out of his hat….7th round sleeper to go all pro leader in sacks baby?????..Go Hawks

  6. montanamike2 says:

    I liked what i saw of Scruggs, Hill and Mayowa last year, i’d probably move Irvin back to DE for rotation, but Pete’s going to do what he feels is right. There may be more surprises coming too, That kid Mathews from the CFL is supposed to be a gamer. I trust the FO even more after they didn’t cave and give a luxury,(Allen) more to stay but we’d lose a core member later.

  7. re: “.7th round sleeper to go all pro leader in sacks baby?????”

    -see Scruggs, Greg (hoping anyway ha ha) : )

  8. Last I heard it was still legal to carry or possess large amounts of cash, but the $10,000 IRS alert level hasn’t been raised for inflation in many years.

  9. Southendzone says:

    If Scruggs can go injury free he has potential to be one of the guys like Baldwin, Maxwell, etc who are driven and work like crazy to improve into a great player.

    He was on the radio a couple times last season and sounded like a really cool guy.

  10. Carlsonkid says:

    “Harbaugh laid awake at night thinking about how they’d have done against Denver .. ”


    Delicious : )

  11. montanamike2 says:

    I think Scruggs is our new Red Bryant.

  12. PugetHawk says:

    I moved Irvin to a pass rushing defensive end on Madden and it paid off, so I can see where Carrol is coming from…smart~! JK

  13. Hey let’s get a burger, aw man I’m broke!
    That’s ok, I got $29,000, let’s roll….

  14. I am sure there will be “competition”, but if Pete Carroll says Tony McDaniel is the new Red Bryant, I guess its Tony.

    I prefer Malcolm Smith to start over Irvin at OLB, so I am in on the Irvin back to 3rd down pass rush DE. If he can’t beat Mayowa out of that role, then he is another disappointing 1st round pick.

  15. Well Irving was learning a new position last year. Saw glimpses of great stuff like the away Rams game.

    Though not blowing his job. It seems at time he did nothing to stand out. While Smith seemed to be making plays that changed the game.

    So do you continue to develop a guy like Irving who has rare physical skills at LB? Or give up on him as a LB and move him back to the line? Or use him situationally at both LB and DE? Knowing doing both might slow his development more.
    I don’t know… But I know the coaches who watch every play and know what he is supposed to be doing, and his potential will do what is best.

  16. Also watching the NFC championship game I was over 90% sure that the winner of that game, would go on to win the Super Bowl. So Mr. Whinny was right to dream that his team in the Super Bowl would have most likely beat the Broncos.

    I also really like the odds that the next few Super Bowl championships are going to go to a NFC West team.

  17. Its interesting to me the juxtaposition of the competition mantra vs. future potential.

    On one hand the coaching staff say that the players are all competing and the best players will play. But on the other hand you Irvin and Sweezy who have been allowed to learn on the job because of their potential.

    If the Seahawks had been losing, inconsistencies like this would be an issue – but we are winning – so its all good.

    Go hawks!

  18. Free agents lost with no gains, compensatory picks should be off the hook in 2015. No doubt Hawks get the full limit of 4. Ravens received a 3,4,4,5 this year. The talent was comparable of those lost by both teams

  19. Southendzone says:

    Ravens 3 was for kruger who signed a giant contract, doubt we can get a 3

  20. yankinta says:

    nah, we’ll get two 4th, one 5th and one 6th….imo. :)

  21. “Not everything was ruled on, including changing pass interference to be called within one yard of the line of scrimmage, which was tabled.”

    I wonder who proposed that rule? That would be aka the “Anti-Seahawks” rule.

    Like when the Washington team proposed to move kickoffss up even further, because they are so bad at special teams.

  22. montanamike2 says:

    I wonder if next years draft will be nearly as deep as this one?

  23. yankinta says:

    montanamike2,, I wonder the same thing. I think it has a chance to be deep since, with the new CBA, more and more underclassmen are gonna come out. It might be 2-3 years until that well runs dry… :)

  24. Irvin wasnt handed his job. He won it and kept it, before Malcolm Smith just flat played so well they had to get him onfield at any position. Wright made it hard too–he played so well, they had to play him as well. Irvin did nothing wrong–he just wasnt spectacular. No one completed passes on him though, and that shored up a key weakness of Seattle’s from the year before.

    Same thing with Maxwell. Browner beat him out in preseason, and kept his job. And Maxwell couldnt quite beat him out in practice, until BB was suspended. Even then, Maxwells second game or so was pretty inconsistent, a pick but lots of completions given up. I took him a couple games to really show his stuff.

    I have no idea what they will do with Irvin. I still think he’s going to be a great LB. McDaniel to DE? I thought they’d put Bennett in at DE on run downs, and DT on passing downs. I also thought they were gonna keep Avril at LDE.

    This is gonna be interesting to watch!

    I also cannot wait to see how the line shakes out. I dont care if we sign a veteran or not, Im just excited to see if we can finally draft a halfway decent RT. I think so. Im happy we re-signed Jean-Pierre and just as glad we let Breno and McQ go. Things are looking up, at least on paper, and the Draft is still to go…

  25. Southendzone says:

    I just don’t have a feel for how Irvin is going to turn out. Didn’t see him playing a ton of downs.

    If you were to rate him and say:

    As a LB, if he reached his ceiling, he would compare to “X”

    As a DE, if he reached his ceiling, he could compare to “Y”

    Who are those players? Could he be as good as Clem at DE? Better?

  26. montanamike2 says:

    It’s not that Irvin isn’t a good linebacker as he is, but we are so deep there and need a situational DE. Maybe another answer is there i don’t know. I thought McDaniel played on the inside with Bennett, more of a run stuffing DT.

  27. Dukeshire says:

    McDaniel has been a DT exclusively so far in his career. And it’s far more likely to have Avril at RDE and Bennett at LDE than the other way around.

  28. wazzulander says:

    “As a LB, if he reached his ceiling, he would compare to “X””

    I could see Irvin turn into a Julian Peterson type of LB.

  29. Hey – I agree about Irvin. He hasn’t been awful. He was fine as a rookie 3rd down DE (8 sacks) and he was OK as an OLB last season – way better than Curry was.

    But still, I expect more out of a first round pick. So not a bust, but a disappointment nonetheless.

  30. Yawn….. 42 days till the draft.

  31. I think Irvin will be back as a rush DE. I think they made him a LB last year because they wanted to get him on the field somehow and had a bunch of rush DEs already on the roster (Clemons, Avril, Bennett, etc).

    But he was drafted in the first round because of his ability to rush the passer.

    It’s possible Irvin will play in the base defense as a LB then rotate some as rush DE in the nickel. That would put Bennett, pass-rushing 3-tech (Hill? Scruggs?), Avril, and Irvin on the line. That’s a lot of active guys.

    As far as having a lot of LB options, that’s a little deceiving. There are 4 guys who could start and probably deserve to start – Smith, Wright, Wagner, Irvin. After that there’s not a whole lot of depth. And Wright and Smith are free agents after this year, so there is a definite need to draft some young depth.

  32. If McDaniel is truly moving to the 5 technique spot, our interior line depth is crap. The only person we can count on there is Mebane. Can’t really count on Hill, Williams, Cherington or D’Anthony Smith.

  33. Scruggs and Bennett are both listed as DE, but we know that Bennett will slide inside on passing downs.

    DT depth is a not good (IMO).

  34. You’d have to assume that they will add at least one DT in FA and/or the draft.

    Not sure how having 8 sacks and leading all rookies is just doing “fine”. You could say he was disappointing last year. Suspended for the first 4 games. Also missed a significant amount of time in TC with an injury if I remember correctly. I thought he was solid if unspectacular at LB. He did show some tantalizing flashes. I’d say he’s more than capable of putting up 10+ sacks as the 3rd/pass rushing DE.

    I wanted them to take Chandler Jones in the 2012 draft. Looks like the better player right now, but I’m not sure exactly how he’d do at Leo. I would think just fine. Not bagging on PC/JS. They’ve forgotten more about football than I’ll ever know.

  35. Kevin Williams would be a good 1-year rental.

  36. I would really like to roll the dice on Pat Sims. Funny he has received so little interest (that I can see) in FA.

    I’m fine with Kevin Williams on a short deal too.

    And could we just re-sign Sidney Rice? I would feel much better having him on the roster heading into the draft.

  37. Some info on Pat Sims…..

    And from PFF, ranked #9 in interior d-line FA’s……

    9. Pat Sims

    2013 Grade: +14.7
    2013 Snaps: 694

    Summary: Sims is the one player among this group that I am most looking forward to seeing how he performs next season. The flash-in-the-pan defensive tackle for the Raiders didn’t have one positively graded season his first five years. Then he put up a stretch that few could replicate. In his last nine games of 2013 his grade was +18.1, and in Week 16 he put up a monstrous 10-stop, +7.2 overall performance. Only four other players had single games graded that highly last season and their names are Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Randy Starks, and Jurrell Casey. Quite simply you don’t see any average defensive tackle perform at that high a level just out of the blue. It tells me that the talent is there, and he may have just been waiting for the switch to be flipped. At 28 years old, Sims will likely be one of the cheaper options among this group. Some might call it risky to invest in a one-year wonder, but I think Sims has legitimately turned the corner in his production.

  38. And the #10 ranked interior defender via PFF…..

    10. Kevin Williams

    2013 Grade: +7.3
    2013 Snaps: 733

    Summary: Richard Seymour found out the hard way last season what the market is like for perennially high-priced interior linemen in their mid-30’s. It seems that fewer and fewer teams want to be ‘that’ team that has a former star wash out on them with a hefty deal. Williams could face a similar market this offseason. Even though he’s still playing at a high level, his decline has been fairly linear. His overall grades from 2010 on are the following: +25.1, +17.1, +11.3, +7.3. His grade last year was still good enough for 27th overall among defensive tackles, but it’s unlikely that it will go up from there. Williams is coming off of an eight-year, $45.7m contract and he’ll turn 34 before next season. If he can maintain his level of play for a couple of seasons he’s still an incredibly valuable player. The biggest question is at what price is a team willing to risk that?

  39. I’d sign Williams for 2 years with only guaranteed money the first year. I’d go a little more for Sims.

    I’d guess that they have already made an offer to Rice and he is waiting for some other team to be willing to beat it. Just a guess. It was reported that they were interested in bringing him back.

  40. You can forget about the Hawks signing Shaun Philips.

    Anthony Spencer would be worth a look for cheap.

  41. Macabrevity says:

    Why do people assume that the 49ers would’ve beaten the Broncos? When Team A barely scrapes by Team B but crushes Team C it’s false logic to think that means that Team B would have crushed Team C as well. The 49ers are not a mirror of the Hawks, and it’s quite possible that Peyton would’ve lit them up like christmas. Joe Flacco lit them up in the previous Bowl, what makes people think they would shut down Peyton?

  42. grizindabox24 says:

    Mac, because people believe the Niners were a better team. I don’t think it has anything to do with A beat B, A crushed C, so B would beat C logic.

  43. I want many things in life. Very high on the list is Seahawks sweep of 9rs this year!

  44. I feel that both SF and Seattle would have won the superbowl. IMO they were playing the best of all the teams at the end of the season. I don’t think it would have been 43-8 but I do feel they could have won.

    Who ever compared Irvin to Curry is just flat crazy! Irvin has played fine (but not spectacular) he doesn’t miss a bunch of huge plays – he may never get a huge contract but he will be a solid player in the league.

  45. Macabrevity says:

    I’ll put myself in the minority then, while the 49ers have pretty good end of season defensive stats, I’ve seen them carved up in the air when it counts and think that Peyton could’ve dissected them much like he did every other team in the NFL outside of the Hawks. It’s a moot point, but I just don’t see Harbaugh’s team winning that match-up.

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