Seahawks Insider

Morning Links: Free agent frenzy is under way

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on March 12, 2014 at 12:55 am with 95 Comments »
March 12, 2014 12:55 am

Good morning.

So, some shuffling yesterday. Let’s run down the Seahawks’ free agents and where we’re at after the initial free agency burst:

WR Golden Tate: Reportedly took a visit to Detroit on Tuesday. He’s expressed multiple times that he would like to stay in Seattle. Listening to some radio banter, I heard some folks label him “irreplaceable.” Terms like that only apply to the Calvin Johnsons of the world. But, I’ll say this: If you are the Seahawks, do you think Tate’s best work is yet to come? If you don’t bring him back, will you need two players to do what he did, which was lead the team in receptions and yards, plus be a good punt returner? If the answer to both of those is yes, then you might have to pay a little more than you thought. If not, he may end up elsewhere.

DT Tony McDaniel: Reportedly talking to the Seahawks about a return. Effective on the interior, could help on the end, though the Seahawks may have some other in-house candidates for that. Seattle is very high on Benson Mayowa, which will enter into the free agent decisions, as will a healthy Greg Scruggs.

RT Breno Giacomini: Reportedly visiting the New York Jets. Waiting to possibly take his place is one of the B&B brothers, Michael Bowie or Alvin Bailey. The Seahawks are not afraid to move offensive linemen around.

CB Walter Thurmond: Is visiting old friend Gus Bradley in Jacksonville. Byron Maxwell is the clear starter opposite Richard Sherman, which would leave Thurmond as the nickel back here. Other teams are likely to give him a starting shot.

DT Clinton McDonald: Signed for four years and $12 million with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. A rumored replacement consideration is Dallas’ Jason Hatcher who is reportedly visiting Seattle. Hatcher, 32, had 11 sacks last year when he made $2 million in the final season of his deal with the Cowboys.

LB O’Brien Schofield: Go shorty, it’s your birthday. Schofield turned eight total tackles last season into $8 million over two years from the New York Giants.

Other Seahawks free agents:

CB Brandon Browner: Don’t anticipate seeing him back.

TE Kellen Davis: Don’t anticipate seeing him back following the Anthony McCoy signing.

K Steven Hauschka: Three kickers were signed yesterday. Hauschka was about as good as you could hope for last season. With a thinned market and his good year, he should be an in-demand player, as much as kickers can be.

QB Tarvaris Jackson: Still anticipated to be the backup.

S Chris Maragos: No action Tuesday.

G Paul McQuistan: Spent the day defending himself in the comments of this blog.

FB Michael Robinson: With younger and cheaper options, I’d be surprised if he was back. He’s also an interesting case because he could have immediate post-playing options by going into television work now. Robinson spent a good chunk of the end of the year in the training room.

Reported visitors:

> According to Adam Schefter, Hatcher visited Seattle on Tuesday.

> Schefter also said that DE Jared Allen is talking to the Seahawks and Chicago Bears.

> Ian Rapoport said TE Jermichael Finley will visit the Seahawks, as will former New England Patriots WR Taylor Price.

Division dealings:

> The San Francisco 49ers made several interesting moves yesterday. They brought in QB Blaine Gabbert via trade from Jacksonville for a sixth-round pick this year and a possible conditional pick in 2015. The 49ers also added safety Antoine Bethea, while losing safety Donte Whitner. Lastly, they traded what Schefter reported as a conditional seventh-round pick for Miami offensive tackle Jonathan Martin.

> The St. Louis Rams officially released cornerback Cortland Finnegan. Guard Roger Saffold signed with the Oakland Raiders in the stunner deal of the day. Schefter reported Saffold’s contract at five years and $42.5 million, with $21.5 million guaranteed. Other than that, quiet in St. Louis.

> The Cardinals signed left tackle Jared Veldheer, formerly of the Raiders, to a five-year, $37.5 million contract, with $17 million guaranteed, according to Rapoport. Veldheer should be an upgrade for the Cardinals at what was a woeful position for them. Arizona did lose linebacker Karlos Dansby, who signed with the Cleveland Browns.

Big names roaming:

> Dallas released DeMarcus Ware.

> Tampa Bay is looking to cut or trade CB Darrelle Revis.

> CB Aqib Talib left the Patriots and signed with the Denver Broncos.

> The Bucs signed CB Alterraun Verner (and DE Michael Johnson).

 

Leave a comment Comments → 95
  1. Ware at Leo?

  2. montanamike2 says:

    TE Kellen Davis was pretty much invisible anyways.

  3. djbargelt says:

    If Jermichael Finley is recovered from his neck injury and would accept a 1 year “prove it” contract, and Zack Miller a pay cut, our TE position would be pretty damn decent. Willson and McCoy would have two great vets to keep learning the trade from, along with being very deep at that position.

  4. montanamike2 says:

    We’ve made our weaknesses our strengths every off season under Pete/John.

  5. montanamike2 says:

    Jermichael Finley scares me a bit with his health problems, also he doesn’t block all that well. Kind of like Jimmy Graham.

  6. djbargelt says:

    True that on your two points about Finley montanamike2, but he does have great hands and pretty good separation skills. If we could keep Zach Miller for his blocking skills, the two might really compliment each other for different looks on the offense.

  7. HawkfaninMT says:

    Maragos signed with Philly

  8. Good luck to Chris Maragos, Big heart guy and special team leader.

  9. Southendzone says:

    Rough day for McQuistan, good one Todd!

    Not sure if this was posted yet, Clayton said DET’s offer to Tate is around 6.25 and the Hawks is likely in the 5.0 range.

  10. If thats true, 1) Seattle would be idiots not to pay the man, South. 2) Tate would be a fool to take that small amount of money to leave Seattle for Detroit–unless of course its really not the money, its the chance to catch 80-90 passes and 10 TD’s a year instead of 57 and 5 that draws him away…

    If they are that close, look for Seattle to up the guaranteed money just as they did for Bennett. It would be a shame to lose Tate over 1 million per year.

    Detroit is a sad-sack town, but they have a young qb with a cannon, a great D-line, and the best WR in the game. And a new no-nonsense coach who isnt a total douche like the last guy…

    Still, it cant compare to working at VMAC for Carrol and no matter what bitter Rob Sims says, Seattle is waaaay more a football town than Detroit. Detroit is an arson and violent crime town…

  11. Maragos is a good dude with outrageous speed. Always wondered what he could do in a starting role, but he (thankfully) never got the chance. I hope he locks us a starting job and gets a new contract, he was always a great Seahawk.

    If not, I just hope he holds onto his Special Teams spot.

    Seattle needs to get younger there anyhow, and this makes sure we can keep Deshawn Shead and Jeron Johnson as our backup Safeties. Both can hit like LB’ers and cover like FS, so its awesome to have them. You can bet the Jags would love to have either or both…

    Im still scratching my head that Schofield got so much money, and McDonald got less than some other DT’s that have no pass rush skills at all…

  12. I really hope we sign Allen… he’s a sack machine and, no, he hasn’t slowed down much. If he played for the Seahawks, he’d be rushing the passer a lot. In Minnesota last year, his team sucked and teams weren’t forced to throw the ball a lot (certainly not to catch up) so he couldn’t tee-up on many of his pass rush attempts and he still had a more sacks than any of our guys. He’s had 45.5 sacks in the last three years (Clem has 27 sacks in that span, is older, and has torn his ACL) and hasn’t had less than 11 sacks in a season for the last 7 years. He’s (still) great. We would lose a bit in run defense with him over Clem but that’s nit-picky. Comparing Allen to Clem is like comparing Megatron to Tate.

  13. On the 9ers moves, good for them. Harbarf is a great qb mentor, he may salvage something from Gabbert. Also, Bethea though old, is far better in coverage than Whitner. They are adapting their roster to match up with us, you can tell.

    We exposed Whitner in coverage last year, and the Niners just improved the position at least for the short-term for a lower cost.

    Damn them!

  14. Bobbyk–Again, I cant see that Allen is that much better than Clem, (Megatron to Tate is an exaggeration, especially since there isnt such a size difference between Allen/Clem) especially since IMO, Clem is far better vs the run, and thats important in a Leo.

    Also, Allen is a total d-bag, and still wants to be paid at the top of the pass rusher market even though he’s also had injuries and is old.

    You cant deny he gets after the qb, and Clem did struggle for much of the year; only one sack after his first five games back, and only 3 qb hits. Thats not good enough. But Allen doesnt know our system either, so that needs to be considered.

    We’ll see what happens.

  15. Soggybuc says:

    Sad to see Maragos leave. Was a monster last year on ST but was never gonna get much game time here.
    I could see Allen tearing it up in the Porsche package.

  16. Jared Allen has missed 1 game in the last 3 years and has missed 3 games in 10 years and he’s YOUNGER than Clemons. How is a guy who never misses a game “injury prone?” Even being “injury prone,” he puts up better sack numbers than Clem. And, yes, the Megatron/Tate was an overexaggeration but anyone who thinks Clem is close to Allen in terms of their overall game is watching different Vikings and Seahawks games than I do.

    Clem is a choir boy and Allen is the douche? Pot, meet kettle.

  17. Reports on NFLN are that Ware could be headed to the Broncos so that would, potentially, leave them out of the Allen derby. My #1 off-season wish is for the team to resign Sherm (and then ET), but #3 would probably be to sign Jared Allen (with the understanding that Sherm and ET remain Seahawks for years and years).

    I’ve said before that I’m high on Jordan Hill in year #2 and I salavate at the thought of Hill and Bennett on the interior in pass rush situations with Avril and Allen coming from the edge. IMO, if you thought this years defense was good, you may have not seen nuttin’ yet!

  18. Bennett and Avril and McDaniel didn’t know our system last year and they did fine and none of them are as good as Allen on the DL, imo.

  19. SeahawkFan12 says:

    I’d rather have Ware than Allen, but either of the two would be just fine with me.

  20. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- Where are you getting your logic with regards to Allen? Are you shooting from the hip?

  21. HawkfaninMT says:

    Why isn’t Peppers getting more play?

    Ware, Allen, and Peppers all seem to be veteran, 30+ pass rush specialists. If the Hawks want one, why not Peppers? Is it because he is asking more than the other two? Do people feel as though he has deteriorated to the point of ineffectiveness?

  22. Bobbyk–Two years ago Allen had 7.5 sacks. He played hurt and had a long sack drought where he looked utterly pedestrian, worse than Clem during his sack drought last year.

    My point is, both are beginning to break down, are aging and want tons of money. Both are also apparently jerks. But Clemons is a known quantity, liked and respected in our locker room, and is an expert in our defensive system. IMO, that makes him a better fit–for us.

    Of course, Seattle’s brain trust may see things differently. Perhaps the drop in Clemons performance after his first five games back until the SB is a major concern to them; perhaps he really is washed up/declining. I just think Allen is just as big of a risk to shrivel before the end of next year.

  23. HawkfaninMT says:

    And another thought…

    Is Clemons contract prohibitive in a trade scenario to the Jags for some low pick? It would clear Clemons off the books, and help Gus out.

  24. Peppers has done jack for several years and has obviously lost more than a step, thats why he isnt getting more attention. He also wants to be overpaid. Sorry bud, you robbed the Bears, no one else is gonna line up to get fleeced.

  25. HawkFromDay1 says:

    For me, it’s definitely the punt return issue with Golden.

    For me, he’s as good as it gets there – always gets 8-10 yards with his electric quickness. Also never seen a 5’11″ receiver high point the ball like he does. Now if he just learns how to reliably run/catch a slant…

    Right now the starting WR’s are Percy Harvin, Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse, right? That’s not good enough, is it? Someone has to be added to that mix – wondering if it should be Jermichael Finley or some other massive lummox instead of Golden…

  26. Georgia–Every time I watch a Minny game, I see Allen looking like he’s lost a step. And Clem looked pretty good down the stretch, though he wasnt getting sacks or hits he was still getting pressure.

    Hey Bobbyk–I got the stats wrong. Der. (He had 12 sacks two years ago, not 7.5) But I watched Allen play several games a couple years ago, and he was nearly useless. That must have been his drought where he was injured. The guy looked sloooow to me.

    Perhaps Im all wet. Wouldnt be the first time, would it? All I know is I watched him off and on the last couple years and I wasnt impressed. But Im also worried about Clem’s long drought too–he looked washed up as well at times.

    So whatever JS and PC do regarding them both, I will just watch. Im partial to the devil we know as opposed to the devil we dont, but thats just me.

  27. HawkfromDay1–I dont think catching a slant route is Tate’s problem–he dropped one, yet was open for many others. Its RW that cant seem to throw a slant to save his life thats the problem there.

    Not that Tate doesnt have his warts; he occasionally fails to get separation due to his routes not being precise enough, and he needs to work on his ability fake out DB’s, but his hands arent the problem, on any route.

  28. STTBM, we all like Golden, but I think its time you got over your man-crush on him and let him go. There is no way he is worth premium money to the Seahawks.

    Tate is not even one of the top few WRs available in free agency, and spending a lot on a WR in free agency would be a dumb move for the Seahawks since they just spent a fortune at WR in free agency last year. Spending a lot in free agency on second-tier players is what the loser teams do. Harvin can do absolutely anything Tate can do, and we are already paying Harvin a fortune to do it. That shows you the team’s decision right there. Tate would be little more than an over-priced insurance policy on Harvin.

    Since we lost Big Red and Clinton McDonald, re-signing McDaniel is now a high priority.

    And if the team is going to spend big on any player left in free agency, either Andre Ware or Jared Allen is the way to go. Both can play outside-inside like Red did. And pass rush could become truly devastating with either on the line.

    Other than that, let’s work on restructuring and extending contracts of our own guys (like Zach Miller) and not waste money in free agency. There will be plenty of short quick WRs available in the draft if the team really thinks they need another one.

  29. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Good point HawkfaninMT.

  30. Hammajamma says:

    Finley comes in as pressure on Miller to restructure. He’d be a plan B or C signing.

  31. chuck_easton says:

    It’s good that Detroit only offered 6.25M. That means the market isn’t going to be anywhere near what Tate thought he’d be seeing.

    Probably why he didn’t sign with Detroit last night. My bet is he will continue to make the FA circuit to try and get some team up into the 8-10M range.

    If he doesn’t get there (and I don’t think he will) perhaps he will come back to Seattle for a more realistic 5M (and very fair) per season.

  32. Peppers is 34 and Allen is 31. I think that’s a big difference. And Allen averages 12.8 sacks per year and Peppers averages 9.9 sacks each season. I’d be okay with Peppers, don’t get me wrong, but it’d have to be for much, much less than we could give to Allen. I think we could sign Allen for 3 years and not have to worry about Leo during that time. He’d be about the age that Peppers is now by the time his contract expired. In case it isn’t obvious, I really want Allen and think/know he’d make an already great defense even better.

  33. Stevos–Even the douche’s on NFL.com rate Tate as one of the best FA WR’s available. If you dont thats fine, but thats your personal bias and not what most football folks think. The only WR I think may be worth more than Tate in FA this year is Decker. And I’d rather have Tate on my team, but thats just me. I think Decker is worth more on the open market, but that remains to be seen.

    I think only three teams see Decker as a One, most see him as a two. Tate is kinda in the middle.

    I realize Seattle cant and likely wont pay Tate 7 million per year. I do think they should pay him 6 and he should take it. We’ll see what happens.

    If we lose him, and Harvin misses time, our WR corps will be pedestrian at best, unless Kearse makes a HUGE leap. And Ive been Kearse’s biggest supporter since we brought him in for MiniCamp his rookie year. Lockette is not going to ever learn to be a WR in this league; his catches all came on pretty much the same route–a crossing pattern/drag across the field.

    We’re a hamstrung team with Baldwin and Kearse and Lockette and a rookie at WR.

    No, Harvin cant take the hits Tate does and keep going, he gets hurt; thats been proven. Harvin cant break tackles like Tate, thats proven. He cant return punts like Tate. He doesnt get the YAC Tate does either. He also cant wrestle jump balls away from the DB like Tate can, though he can jump nearly as high as Tate.

    They arent the same player. Tate is stronger and more durable, and has been a good SE and can play the slot. Harvin has not shown he can be a starting SE.

    Im not saying Tate is better than Harvin; that would be ridiculous. He’s not the athlete Harvin is, and Harvin runs better routes. But Tate has his own strengths and with Harvin’s injury risk, I feel Tate is someone we should keep if at all possible.

  34. HawkFromDay1: “Right now the starting WR’s are Percy Harvin, Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse, right? That’s not good enough, is it? Someone has to be added to that mix.”

    Definitely. But not at the $5-7 Million Tate will get.

    There are at least 10 WRs available in the draft who are considered to be first or second round talent, and are over 6’0 tall. I would look for one of them to be competing for Jermaine Kearse’s job at SE soon. I would expect at least of them will be better than Tate or Kearse can ever be. Or perhaps Schneider has his eyes set on another diamond-in-the-rough for the 4th or 5th round. No one will know until late April.

    Right now the starting WR’s are Percy Harvin, Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse, right? That’s not good enough, is it? Someone has to be added to that mix

    Here’s as good a list as anyone has online:
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2014/WR

    Cheers, 12th Man!

  35. I meant, “I would expect at least a couple of them will be better than Tate or Kearse can ever be”

    d’OH… more coffee… get back to work…

  36. Man, if 6.25 is all Detroit is offering, and Seattle offered 5, I will be shocked AND pissed if Tate takes it. Thats just dumb. Detroit should have to pay him a LOT more than that. Hell, they were paying Burleson 5.5 a year until this year!

    And Tate is by far a better WR than Burleson ever was for them.

    I think Tate has a little bit of poor Titus Young syndrome, only minus the mental illness; he’s over valuing himself. To get to the 7-10 million a year range, you have to be a go-to guy in any situation, catch at least 80 balls for 1200 yards and 10 TD’s. And a 5′-11″ guy who still needs to work on his route running aint that guy. Or at least not yet. Tate can probably put up those stats in a prolific passing offense, but he’s still not the guy he thinks he is.

    Im all for confidence, but this is ridiculous.

  37. chuck_easton says:

    STTBM,

    Anything approaching 6M is the top of Tate’s earning potential. I would think if he comes back to talk with the FO they might move north of the 5M offer, but I don’t see them going one penny over 6M.

    Tate appears to have his floor set at 8M. I see him continuing to visit teams in the hope that someone bites.

    The deciding factor is going to be Decker. He is rated higher than Tate. They are both tweeners. Not quite #1′s but not your average #2 either. If Decker signs in the 7M or less range the writing will be on the wall for Tate.

    I think he needs to have this time for a financial reality check and the FO was smart to put a fair but on the lower end offer on the table for him to consider. Tate is going to find that he’s not a 8-10M per year kind of guy.

  38. Stevos–You may be right. There is a chance if we spend our first pick on a WR they might turn out to be better than Kearse or Tate. But not this year. There’s no way a rookie contributes what Tate could this year, and probably not the year after.

    Its a big risk to lose Tate and replace him with a rookie and/or a lesser free agent.

    We’ll see what shakes out. Seattle is playing hardball, but so far it looks like it might work…and I cant blame them. As you say, we cant always pay everyone what they are worth, and he needs to be reminded he didnt earn his pay his first two years, so he shouldnt feel all that insulted.

  39. seahawkNJ says:

    $6.25 per year vs $5m is a no brainer. I take Detroit’s money all day. I don’t even get how that is a debate. The only reason for any delay is to see is Seattle can come close.

  40. Chuck–I dont see them paying him over 6 either, though I think based on past contracts he’s well worth it–they just cant and wont pay that much now that Harvin is here.

    I agree totally. He’s not going to get 8+ million a year from a contender. Maybe not from anyone. He’s not precise enough nor tall enough to warrant that. And the recent crop of number 2 or 3 WR’s getting 5+ million and flaming out has likely made many teams gunshy about projecting these guys as starters worth such money.

  41. Hell, I would take the paycut to stay with a SB champion and work at VMAC as opposed to living and working in Detroit. Its mind boggling to me to think anyone else wouldnt.

    But Im not a football player.

  42. If we lose Tate, I want Evans or Watkins. Seattle would have to give up a kings ransom to get Watkins, he’s expected to be another Andre Johnson/Megatron/Aj Green type, and will likely go anywhere from 2-10 in the draft. Evans wont go as high, but he’s still not gonna fall to 32.

    And even those guys wont make us forget Tate for a year or two.

    If we had a stud WR last year in the draft raring to go this year, I wouldnt feel bad about losing Tate for 6 million a year; but we dont.

  43. Southendzone says:

    6.25 vs 5 doesn’t seem like a huge amount, but times it over 4 or 5 years and it’s a big deal.

    If the Hawks want to keep him, they can do it, get creative. Put in a player void option after 2 years in case he’s feeling like he missed his true “payday”. if he’s kicking ass after 2015 season ends, he can go for it again.

    Hard to see a trade that would land us Watkins, but that would be absolutely epic if they could pull it off. You probably got to get to the 4th or 5th pick to do it, that’s our 1st, 2nd and 1st from next year. (guessing here, if anyone has the time to look up the draft values, feel free to correct me).

  44. I think the $5m vs. $6m debate is all about state of mind and circumstance.

    Tate is a young guy who will be hungry for big money. I expect the $1m will matter to him.

    If he was an older guy on his second or third contract the $1m may not be more important than the where and the winning / losing.

    I expect Tate to be very $ sensitive.

  45. chuck_easton says:

    I agree blocis. And that is why I don’t see Tate accepting or even considering Detroit’s offer.

    He wants top dollar. It is apparent that the first number isn’t going to be a 5 or a 6 right now. Tate is going to be out there looking for a few more days/weeks.

  46. HawkfaninMT says:

    I do not see us making the move for Watkins or Evans, who I see in the top 10 also.

    If the Hawks are going WR in round 1, I would expect to see Odell Beckam Jr or Kelvin Benjamin. Just my opinion. if it is Benjamin and we lose tate, I would be interested to see what they may pay Hester to come in and strictly return punts

  47. princeaden says:

    If I am choosing between $6.25 mil to play in Detroit of all places vs $5 mil to stay at the VMAC and play for the Superbowl Champions, yeah, it’s a no brainer for sure. I’m staying here. It’s not like the difference between 30k and 50k. I’m pretty comfy at 5 mil still and I don’t have to even see what goes on in the motor city. That place is just flat nasty.

  48. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- Not all rookie WRs take two years to produce good like it took Tate to do.
    Some of them produce right away like Keenan Allen did last year, or DB did his first year with the Seahawks.

  49. In Seattle’s system, you can not simply compare defensive linemen by the numbers. Jared Allen has the sacks, but could not fill in for Michael Bennett because the LDE must be stout against the run, plus Bennett shifts to DT on some downs. Allen would only fit at the Leo position, which is the designated pass rusher on the QB’s blind side (unless the QB is a lefty). The Leo lines up wider, which helps athletic pass rush specialists thrive. Yes, the Leo still needs to help with the run, but is only in charge of a single gap, while on the opposite end where Bennett plays, there are two gaps. Clemons fits the system, perhaps Jared Allen could as well, but I don’t think he has the speed for it (even as a rookie his 40 time was much slower than what Clemons ran as a rookie). Clemons has quite a bit more speed than Allen, at least prior to the injury. Unless they come cheap, none of these big name DE’s are worth the money that needs to be saved so that Sherm/Thomas/Wilson can get extended. If Clemons gets cut, I’d rather see Avril get the snaps, with Mawoya and Irvin part of the rotation.

    As for Hatcher…that would be a good signing if it’s a cheap, short term deal. A pass rushing DT is something Seattle hasn’t had for years. Mebane is a run stopper who got some sacks early on in his career, but I can’t recall any DT who got double digit sacks since John Randle. McDonald was tops with only 5.5. However, signing Hatcher should not come at the cost of being unable to extend the younger stars, and it also should not be such a long contract that it prevents the development of Jordan Hill and Jesse Williams. I don’t see Mebane sticking around after his contract expires in 2015 considering the big names that have to be extended, so it’s time to start grooming the younger, cheaper replacements on the interior of the line.

  50. I cant see us swinging a trade to get either of those two WR’s either, but Seattle considered moving up to take Kuechly, so who knows? They gamble when they feel the need, just ask Harvin…

  51. Georgia–Youre right. They knew Tate was raw and had maturity issues. Had Tate not been a butthead his rookie year and expected to start and kickass on talent alone, he wouldve been a year faster in the process. Much as I love the kid, his punk attitude his rookie year still ticks me off…what a waste; you could see what he was capable of from time to time, but his head was just so far up his butt…

    However, most WR’s take two-three years to really ‘get it’ in the NFL. Thats why I want Watkins and Evans so bad; those guys appear ready to contribute from Day One, and Watkins especially could be a Pro Bowler from year One on…These guys appear Once a Decade players…

  52. I dont know who runs faster now, Clem or ALlen; but Allen can flat rush the passer, 40 times be-damned. My worry is his pay demands and his age–the same as Clem.

  53. seahawkNJ says:

    Maybe the difference of $5m ($1.25 over 4 years) isn’t a lot to GT or some of the hitters on here, but I take it all day every day. He already has a ring and it’s time to get paid. For an extra $5m i’d play in Kabul.

  54. Southendzone says:

    Ok I did look up the trade point chart, and getting to #4 is virtually impossible. Even that trade I had above doesn’t come very close. If somehow the guy falls to around #10 we could pull it off, but I don’t know how we trade up to #4 or #5.

    Then again, this is the reason the Raiders organization exists! To make stupid moves. COME ON RAIDERS, trade with us! We will throw in a 1 hour seminar with John Scheider on how to run a franchise.

  55. It’s true that Allen can rush the passer…his high motor makes up for the speed he lacks in comparison to the current Leos on our roster. It could work, considering his decline against the run last season was due to him guessing pass and being too far upfield to hold his gap. With Mebane next to him on the line and the system PC runs, it could cover up more of those risks. I’m with you on the expense – if he costs more than what Clemons being cut would save, it makes no sense. If he goes the Avril/Bennett route though…

    I think Avril should be the starter at Leo, assuming he still has the stamina to play more downs. He’s younger, faster than Clemons and Allen, and he had 8 sacks last season splitting time with Clemons. Thing is, he had less snaps than Clemons last year, and Clemons was out at the beginning of the season.

    That being said, more needs to be made of the deep rotation Seattle used last year on the line. Does shrinking that rotation and giving more snaps to Bennett and Avril mean they play tired and their numbers take a dip, but more importantly, the defense wears down in the 3rd and 4th quarters? Red got cut…Clemons may get cut…so even with Avril and Bennett to take over, is there enough depth to prevent fatigue playing a role?

  56. Biggest need right now? Assuming Breno is gone, biggest need is at RT.

    And don’t start with any of that Bailey or Bowie talk. While I am happy to have them on the team and believe they have potential, I would not want to risk next seasons success on assuming either of those two will be starters in 2014. We need to add another RT either through FA or draft.

  57. Anthony Collins or Eben Britton are FA OT’s still available (altho Collins is supposed to be visiting Tampa).

  58. Not sure Avril would be an effective Leo. He’s always played LDE. I dont think Allen would play Leo well, and if Seattle signs him I would think they would use him more as a traditional RDE, and not use the RDE as a Leo, but Im sure Dukeshire knows more about the intricacies of the Leo as opposed to a traditional RDE in a normal 4-3 than I do, and can explain it far better.

    So correct me if Im all wet Dukeshire!

    And that might work fine. They could use their stable of fast LB’ers to fill in the gap there, Irvin/Smith are fast as hell, and Wright has learned to mask his lack of speed like I never thought possible. And I know Seattle will find a way to get all four of their stud LB’er onfield at one time, somehow.

    They’ve tweaked their D every year, and I think next year will be no exception.

  59. Allen is a better pass rusher than Clem or Avril and he is a better run defender than Avril. I want to keep Avril at LDE in pass rushing situations. Allen and Avril rushing the passer together may give us the best pair of edge rushers in the league and that’s not even factoring Bennett coming up the gut with potentially a second year Hill, whom I have high hopes for. This would be lethal.

  60. Mr. Happy would Taylor this defense perfectly off Allen if he were our Leo.

  61. blocis–I agree utterly and hope we get one of each; a RT in FA, and one in the draft, to compete. I think Bailey has a chance of locking down a spot somewhere, but I wouldnt bank on it either. Im just being optimistic.

  62. chuck_easton says:

    blocis,

    Maybe the plan is to move Carp back to RT?

    OK, did BobbyK or STTBM have a heart attack when they read this?

    :)

  63. Bobbyk–Lethal is a good word for it!

    We’ll see what shakes out with Clem and Allen. As FA turns….

  64. Chuck–if they moved Carp back to RT I would just laugh. What else could be done? It would result in RW getting massacred, we all know that…not happening!

  65. Yeah, the chances of us getting Watkins are worse than our chances of landing Suh years back. At least then it appeared possible for a couple weeks. But I can dream, right? Dont want to get too bummed if/when Tate leaves…

  66. ChrisHolmes says:

    Clem released.

  67. HawkfaninMT says:

    Rob Stanton at Seahawksdraftblog.com has been talking up a Nevada OT named Joel Bitonio for the last couple of weeks. Seems to be a relatively unknown commodity that draft sites have going in rounds 2-4, Rob says round 1.

    Food for thought

  68. FleaFlicker says:

    Tate is a solid player. Good in space. Decent on punt returns. But he doesn’t get separation from coverage. And if the price tag is too rich, it’s not the right move. We need as much cap as possible to roll forward for real make-or-break players on the roster.

    Put Kearse on punts and find a burner WR in the second round or a cheap FA deal.

    Or even go for Finley on a cheap one year deal (or multi-year deal that doesn’t have cap obligations) and treat him like a Jimmy Graham type hybrid TE/WR that can compliment Zach Miller. Along with Percy, Doug, and Beast Mode, that is a match-up challenge for everybody we play.

  69. HawkfaninMT says:

    By released you mean free to sign with Jacksonville!

  70. HawkfaninMT says:

    The logic points to one of the aging stars we have been hashing over is about to signed…

    Guesses on who it is? My money is on Allen

  71. Singularitarian says:

    STTBM- Clemmons and Megatron are a pretty good comparison of Allen and Clemmons, and yes, they are different size. Clemmons is 6’1 440, while Allen is 6’6 270, and has freakishly long arms. They most certainly are NOT the same size

  72. Singularitarian says:

    excuse me 240 pounds for clem

  73. Jason Hatcher signing on the way?

  74. oldtallguy says:

    Condotta kicks a..

  75. Singularitarian says:

    6’3 for clem. I’m an idiot

  76. Maybe we move Irvin back to 3rd down DE and let Malcolm Smith start at OLB.

  77. Singularitarian says:

    I always thought Clemmons was quite a deuche anyway

  78. GeorgiaHawk says:

    So Bennett is only costing us a cap hit of 4 mil.

    Does anyone know where we stand with the cap at this time?

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks-analysis/2014/3/12/5499534/michael-bennett-contract-details-broken-down

  79. Spotrac has already removed Clemons 2014 salary from their contract DB…

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/chris-clemons/

  80. Singularitarian says:

    Crazy, I saw this coming though. I wonder if they have a signing in the mix or if they just wanted bargaining power. 2 years 12 mill for Allen? Bruce Irvin at Leo? Avril at Leo? Ware? totally interested

  81. FleaFlicker says:

    NFL is a brutal business. Clem was paid well and performed well. Critical part of the team last year. But I like the cap space we’ve freed up.

    I think he lands elsewhere with a $5 million per year deal.

  82. I’ve gotta think that the Seahawks are on their way to signing Jared Allen or Justin Tuck – otherwise they’ve destroyed a great DL with 3 losses (Bryant, McDonald and Clemons) and no replacements.

  83. FleaFlicker says:

    blocis, great link. A different tab shows us with an available cap space right now of $20 million:

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/cap-hit/

    You have to scroll down to the very bottom of the page to find it.

    We really need to structure contracts on a pay-as-you-go basis. We’re taking an $8.5 million dead cap hit…i.e. if we didn’t have any dead money this year, we’d still be able to keep Clem and have an extra million to play with.

  84. Singularitarian says:

    We could have kept Clem if we wanted to anyway

  85. From Pro Football Focus……

    12.15: RELEASE! With a -7.7 grade in 2013 you might think Chris Clemons is done. But it’s important to remember he was working his way back from a January ACL tear and finished the season extremely strong. His NFC Conference Championship efforts combined with his Super Bowl play earned him a +9.7 grade alone. So now the Seahawks have released expect a market to develop for him with the Jaguars the obvious candidate to pick him up. There’s some juice left in his tank.

  86. He was a one man wrecking crew in those final 2 games.

  87. also appears bears not in on Allen and ware appears headed for Broncoville. I’m getting wiff of Allen in a hawks jersey next yr

  88. Detroit has about 6% state and city income tax. So after fed & local taxes the difference for Tate would be about 3M vs. 3.5M

    Living conditions and championship opportunities are also worth a lot.

  89. I seem to remember Allen briefly rumored to go to the Seahawks last year, so it wouldn’t surprise me if that happened. BUT he’s reportedly fine with retiring if he doesn’t get the money he wants.

  90. trout_hound says:

    Clem is a stud. Too bad he wouldnt restructure. We’ll miss him (unless we get Jared Allen – love that guy).

  91. “I always thought Clemmons was quite a deuche anyway”

    Really?! I thought he was all business, and just a serious dude. I saw nothing wrong with it, as a distant fan that doesn’t have to talk to the guy.

    He didn’t have the impact last season, as prior to the injury. Not worth the $, and replaceable.

    IMO, he made a great contribution to the Seahawks during his time here. I’ll always remember that about him.

  92. (Per PFF Signature Stats) Sacks for 4-3 RDEs:

    2011
    1st MIN’s Jared Allen (24 sacks)
    2nd NYG’s JPP (13 sacks)
    3rd PHI’s Trent Cole (11 sacks)
    4th SEA’s Chris Clemons (10 sacks) (4-way tie)

    2012
    1st CIN’s Michael Johnson (13 sacks)
    2nd CAR’s Greg Hardy (12 sacks)
    2nd CHI’s Julius Peppers (12 sacks)
    4th MIN’s Jared Allen (11 sacks)
    4th STL’s Robert Quinn (11 sacks)
    6th SEA’s Chris Clemons (10 sacks)

    2013
    1st STL’s Robert Quinn (19 sacks)
    2nd CAR’s Greg Hardy (15 sacks)
    3rd MIN’s Jared Allen (13 sacks)

    15th SEA’s Chris Clemons (3 sacks)

    I would be very happy with Jared Allen at RDE, especially if he was affordable.

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