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Tweet link: Seahawks to cut Red Bryant?

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Feb. 23, 2014 at 8:16 pm with 57 Comments »
February 23, 2014 8:25 pm

The jovial big man was one of the likely cap casualties for the Seahawks. Cutting Red Bryant would save about $5.5 million in cap space. The Seahawks would also be cutting one of their biggest leaders, really the head of the defensive line group.

Leave a comment Comments → 57
  1. Big Red is a solid role player who will definitely be missed. However, his pay doesn’t warrant his production and the money is understandably needed for guys who make more of an impact. He was a good Seahawk and I wish him the best!

  2. shoehawks says:

    He’s not gone yet…and whose to say he wouldn’t be re-signed at some point if he does get cut. What about re-negotiating his contract? I don’t think you just cut a leader without exploring other avenues first.

  3. shoehawks says:

    …”who is to say”…

  4. Of the 4 guys most often brought up as potential cuts, Rice & Red had the least production to dollars ratio. If it’s true, know that you guys are loved and will always be a part of the best year in Hawk History.

    Still feel like Clem has another season in the tank. He was coming into form by the last few games. Pay cut? Yes.
    Same goes for Miller but he is in a stronger position to avoid a pay cut at the moment. Hope it doesn’t come to that.

  5. MikeFromNewJersey says:

    I agree Shoe but who knows how this went down. He maybe said no about taking a paycut and the team has to make tough financial decisions. Hes getting older and seems to be breaking down physically.. We shouldn’t have a difficult time filling this spot. Hopefully this means Bennett, McDaniel and McDonald all comd back. Jordin Hill and Jesse Wiliams were drafted with this move in mind.

  6. Ray_Maines says:

    Has the Sidney Rice thing become official yet?

    It’s a cold blooded business, no?

    I wish, I hope, & I pray for home town discounts, but I sure don’t blame any player for trying to maximize his contract every time he can.

  7. Red is worth the money. He’s not breaking down, he stayed healthy this year after a couple years of injury issues. He’s a great guy and a leader.

    That said, He’s not as necessary as in prior years, and we can’t afford him. Other players–like Bennett–are at this time more valuable, and I think he refused a paycut.

    The Pats may sign him, but if not, there’s a chance we get him back cheaper–albeit a small chance.

    If he leaves I’m gonna miss him bad, but this will become par for the course with JS and the Hawks. Gotta make the best of the Cap…

    Good Luck, and Best Wishes Big Red! Love you Man, hope you come back on the cheap, but if not, then go kick some Butt!!!

  8. jawpeace says:

    I think I read somewhere that Big Red averaged 29 plays per game in 2013. No way was he going to get the 8.5 mil in the 2014 season. I hope he takes a giant pay cut. Ideal salary would be what the cap hit would be if we cut him as he is going to get that money anyways. Does anyone know what the cap hit (if any) will be for cutting him?

  9. JoeinKirkland says:

    I grew up a 49ers fan (don’t worry, I can’t stand them now) and one thing they were able to do that sustained their greatness over a period of time was to let a player go a year early, rather than hold onto him a year too long. And that was before there was a salary cap. It was about replacing aging veterans with future starters. Joe Montana, Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, Tom Rathman, and many others made way for younger guys.

    I’m glad to see that PCJS has the same attitude. It is hard after winning a Super Bowl to not want to bring the whole team back and go for it again. That isn’t realistic. Each year the roster turns over by 20-25%. This has to happen even in a Super Bowl year. This is where our depth is going to pay off.

    We’ll know if we are able to maintain our depth once we sign Russell, Earl, Sherm, Okung, etc. if in future years we aren’t dominating teams in the second half during the preseason. Teams that don’t have a lot of depth can still have a successful year but they need to be lucky as far as injuries are concerned.

    Can’t wait for the draft, training camp and the preseason.

  10. vichawkfan says:

    Jawpeace:
    @BrockESPN: As beloved as Red is inside/outside the Hawks locker room, he avg. 29 snaps/game in ’13 & w/other priorities that’s too few snaps for the $$

  11. seaturkeys says:

    “Muema even went so far as to change his Twitter bio to reflect that he’s a member of the Seahawks and has the No. 8 jersey”

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1971072-adam-muema-leaves-2014-nfl-scouting-combine-for-religious-reasons?

  12. bigmike04 says:

    Sad to see Red Bryant get cut but, I dont think, he going to have hard time finding a job.. Could see him going to Jacksonville(Gus Bradley).. He can still get big pay day with a team that willing to throw him bucks..

  13. Red Bryant is to the defense what Zach Miller is to the offense. A good player making more than they are worth in relation to the salary cap.

  14. I’m not surprised.

    As I speculated months ago, its easier to find a large two gap DE with zero pass rush than it is to find a versatile inside / outside pass rusher like Bennett. So makes sense to me to prioritize the signing of Bennett at Reds expense. Having said that, it would be awesome if we found some way to keep Red on the team at a reduced salary.

  15. Here are the details of Reds contract as per Spotrac

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/red-bryant/

  16. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “Red Bryant is to the defense what Zach Miller is to the offense.”

    True but the problem is the Seahawks are rich with D-line options. Not so much with TE options, however it still wouldn’t surprise me if they cut Miller.

  17. chuck_easton says:

    As always thank you for posting the link blocis. Many fans don’t understand the cap, how signing bonuses and other roster/workout bonuses work, and other details.

    Jawpeace, what those numbers show is that even if Bryant is cut there will still be a 3 million cap hit since the final three installments of the signing bonus come due immediately.

    This was discussed yesterday, the team can’t get out of the $3 million cap hit so even if they were to cut Bryant and then resign him to a lower contract his new cap hit would be $3M + whatever the new contract would be.

    So, say they cut Bryant and he re-signed for the veteran minimum of a 7-9 year vet, or $855,000.00, Bryant would still count $3,855,000.00 against the cap for a total savings of 8.5M – 3.855M = $4.645M.

    I think Bryant knows he can get more on the FA market than vet minimum.

    NFL.com is now saying the team is just ‘considering’ cutting him. Sounds like a strong arm tactic. The public musing is a sign that Bryant likely isn’t willing to redo his contract so the team is letting it be known it’s take a pay cut or a complete cut.

    The big problem is that nasty $3M roster bonus due to Bryant on the 11th of March.

  18. Personally, I hope they can keep Big Red AND Miller… just at more cap friendly numbers. I value Red’s ability to stuff the run and Miller’s steady blocking and sure hands every once in a blue moon when they throw it to him.

    I think Luke Willson can become a top 10 TE next season. He’s got that rare speed AND football speed for the position. He’s going to be special, imo.

  19. I am actually surprised they didn’t ask Big Red to take a pay cut first. I think Red would want to stay on the team, how many teams are in dire need of a 6’4 323 lb defensive end? That’s where Carroll and crew were able to get the most production out of him.

  20. chuck_easton says:

    RADEoN,

    They likely did. The only reason the team would ‘leak’ information that they are considering cutting a player is the player said no to the pay cut.

    The team is letting the player know they are serious. Pay cut or CUT, your choice Red.

  21. DanielleMND says:

    I’d like to see them keep Big Red, but his scheduled salary and roster bonus are too much for a run stuffing end who played 29 snaps or less per game last season. For that amount of money, I’d rather see it go to re-signing Bennett and maybe extending Avril.

  22. RDPoulsbo says:

    I figured Red would get 1 more year on his contract, but if they sign Bennett, it’s likely he will get the early downs on the strong side.

    Red is still a good player and is probably more valuable to a 3-4 team. I could easily see the Cowboys throwing money at him, probably even too much money.

  23. chuck_easton says:

    The team also has to look at the long term.

    If they cut Red this year they save $5.5M on the cap for 2014.

    BUT they also save the 7M cap hit for 2015 and 8M cap in 2016. That is a total of 20.5M cap savings in the next three years. Those years are when guys like Sherm, Wilson, and others are going to need to be paid.

  24. chuck_easton says:

    It’s pretty clear the issue with Red is that 3 million roster bonus that is due to him, and thus must be counted against the cap, if he remains on the roster after March 11th.

    This is why we are hearing about Red now. They can still cut other players (Clem, Rice, Miller, Wilson…just kidding Georgia!) later on.

    If you want to know which players are very likely going to have pay cuts or be released in the next few weeks use that site that blocis put up. Any potential cap casualty that has a big roster bonus due on the first day of the 2014 season (March 11th) is a prime candidate.

  25. chuck_easton says:

    Miller is due a 1M roster bonus on the 11th. If we haven’t heard of a pay cut or just a CUT by that date it will be clear the team intends to keep him in 2014. They wouldn’t pay Miller an additional million and then cut him.

    Not that it wouldn’t be a nice gesture, but if they pay Miller that money that would be an additional 1 million added to Miller’s post cut dead money cap hit. The team would only save 4 million and not 5 million against the 2014 cap if they cut Miller after March 11th.

  26. chuck_easton says:

    In looking at Clem’s contract there are no roster or workout bonuses. This is why we are hearing about Red now and not Clem. The team can go as far as bring Clem to camp and still save $7.5 million against the cap just as long as Clem isn’t on the final roster.

  27. So are any of these “cuts” official yet?

  28. Southendzone says:

    Seems like Red would be a good fit for any 3-4 defense as a DE. We’ve got several D-Lineman ready to step into the rotation, don’t forget Scruggs coming off a season long injury last year.

    You know the team’s philosophy is to stop the run, so they aren’t going to do this if it will hurt them in that regard. Last season it was the overall rotation and not any 1 guy who made the Defense special. The way they kept guys fresh and could bring in different packages of guys for the right situation.

    Sucks to see a fan favorite go, but it was a necessity.

  29. princeaden says:

    The rotations are grat and all, but the one main component in the run stuffing is Brandon Mebane.

  30. chuck_easton says:

    xcman,

    Neither this ‘cut’ nor the Rice ‘cut’ have been made official.

    Team is just ‘strongly considering’ cutting Red. That’s contract talk for take the pay cut or be cut.

  31. princeaden says:
  32. That poor Muema kid seems to be suffering from mental health issues. Another RB is the very last thing the Seahawks need, and he isn’t even a standout player.

    I hope all of the guys whose contracts are too big will renegotiate. If they can get overpaid by some other team, you can’t blame them. Teams might want to over pay for Bennett, but I doubt that Rice and Miller and Bryant will get huge money from other teams.

  33. Dukeshire says:

    Anytime a player signs a contract that escalates in the final year or too, as is the case with Rice and Red, they are subject to becoming cap casualties. It’s a pattern that plays out league wide, every year.

  34. HawkfaninMT says:

    So who do the hawks have that can play that 5 tech spot and hold up at least reasonably well?

    Jesse Williams? Scruggs, potentially? Jordan Hill?

  35. Kingpear says:

    Loved ya Red…. But see ya!

    As almost all of you have noted, he is not playing enough for the 8.5 cap hit in 2014.
    As far as re-negotiation is concerned, I always find humor in the fact that the collective “WE” are always imploring players to take less to stay with our team.

    Put yourselves in their shoes people. So lets say some dude is making 80K a year working at his job in the sales department. He is not a stud salesman, but a solid performer. His boss asks him to take a 50% pay cut, but another place down the road offers him 60-70K to do the same job he is doing. Which would you take?

    Just because the dollar values go to the millions, the logic doesn’t change. Especially for a player who is just about to look at the wrong side of 30….

  36. Dukeshire says:

    Bennett certainly held up “reasonably” well at strong side end.

  37. Jesse Williams is the best fit on the roster to play that two gap DE spot, but also the biggest question health wise. I can see them bringing in a FA vet and maybe adding a draft choice here and letting them compete.

  38. HawkfaninMT says:

    @kingpear: While I get the comparison you are making I don’t think it holds water in this case.

    The first flaw is comparing the amounts of money offered. How do you know the Hawks are asking for a 50% pay cut, and that others will offer 90% of what his current pay is?

    Secondly, moving your family from Seattle, where you have lived for 5-7 years, have a pedigree and roots in, and foundations with, to say Jacksonville; is a lot more drastic than the office down the street.

    Lastly, in your comparison the amount of money that someone makes at 80K is an amount that a family needs to live on, whereas 40K is not. For Red to take a paycut from 8.5M to 4.25M (Your estimation, not mine)is not a prohibitive amount for his family to not live off of.

    I suppose the point I am making is changing the K to M when talking about these dollar amounts and the family impact are things that need to be considered from a player perspective when taking these decisions into account

  39. Red was a good to great one but time marches on. He has his ring and probably somewhere will be able to parlay that into one more reasonably good payday for another two years. But as much as he was a part of building this team into a champion, it is better to let him go a year too early than a year too late. He can’t earn his well-priced keep here any longer. Great memories and endless appreciation for his role in the greatest year ever. But now it is dictated by the league calendar to be moving on time.

  40. Here is the details, as per spotrac, for Chris Celmons contract. Again, I won’t be surprised to see him cut or asked to renegotiate.

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/chris-clemons/

  41. And just because, here are the details of James Carpenters contract – another cut I suggest may happen sometime before opening day 2014.

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/james-carpenter/

  42. Here is my early draft choice to replace Red……

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1697015/brent-urban

  43. I thought Red was due to make 5.5 million–didnt realize his pay jumps to 8.5; no way is he worth THAT much.

    Bobbyk–You sure are salty lately! Miller is a key part of this offense not just a role player, and his pay is now inline with his value at about 5 mill. He’s been overpaid for years, but not so much now.

    Red either takes a big cut or is gone.

  44. Glossman says:

    With all of this discussion about Red not producing enough to justify his cap cost, is there anyway (besides that 29-snaps number) to quantify his overall contribution to the team’s success?

    In baseball sabermetrics, this contribution is often expressed in WAR or wins above replacement. If you’re not familiar with this, WAR factors in hitting and defensive performance, and is cumulative, not an average. The going rate for 1 win is about $6 million this year, so that tells us if a player is overpaid or underpaid.

    Does this even exist in football?

  45. STTBM is correct, Millers salary reduces by $2M this year…..

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/zach-miller/

  46. GeorgiaHawk says:

    When you count Millers bonuses for 2014 his salary goes back up to $7M which is more than what the Saints would pay for using the franchise tag on Jimmy Graham this season if they can use the franchise tag for a TE instead of WR.
    So it’s still a $7M cap hit for a TE who is good but arguably not elite.

    http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Zach Miller &Position=TE&Team=Seahawks

  47. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Just click on Millers name to get more detailed info-

    http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Seahawks&Year=2014

  48. wabubba67 says:

    The defensive scheme that Carroll brought to Seattle transformed Red Bryant from the scrap heap to a valued member of the defensive line.

    While Red has value to the Seahawks, I don’t envision many teams around the league clamoring for a LARGE defensive end with no pass rush ability. He may find that on the open market, most teams will not be willing to pay him as much as the Seahawks. That is the real beauty about how JS/PC evaluate and draft talent. What is valuable to us, is not necessarily as valuable to other teams.

  49. freedom_X says:

    There are plenty of teams that will pick up a proven, top-notch run stuffer. Not for $8.5 million however. But still, to put him in the same category as Sidney Rice concerning production vs. price is insulting. For years Bryant has been the key to the run defense, and I think it takes a hit without him even though the defense will still be good.

    I’m skeptical that the team is leaking information about cutting people to “send a message.” That doesn’t fit with the above-board, “communication” new-age feel of the current front office and staff. It’s a business to be sure, and these things could very well happen, but I don’t think anyone with decision making power is actually leaking this stuff to the media. Doesn’t help when trying to sell the “family/brotherhood” angle.

  50. If anyone is leaking the news, its Bryants agent, in an attempt to drum up a quick market. Red likely will want to come back to Seattle, and its in the Agents best interest to scare up high dollar offers from good teams before Red lets emotion pull him into signing for less than he can get elsewhere. The agent also likely wants to drum up calls in order to keep Red from taking whatever Seattle is offering.

    Its in the Agents best interest for Red to sign elsewhere, as he will get more money from a team like the Pats than Seattle can offer him.

  51. Georgia–So, according to your site, Miller will earn $6 million this year, as 1 million is a prorated roster bonus he’s already received and counts toward the cap, but isnt money he will be paid.

    Thats more than he is worth, IMO. But again, he’s worth 4-5 million IMO, and it would hurt us tremendously to lose him, as Cable’s stinking ZBS is not a system anyone will get comfy with in a year or less. Im betting he stays this year at least.

    But I been wrong before.

  52. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM – Miller is on the fence imo, it could go in a number of ways. It probably depends on how much the FO wants to lock up some players this year,( like Sherman) as apposed to next season.

  53. Graham can NOT be franchised as a WR just because he wants to any more than the Hawks can tag Bennett as a DT.

  54. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I for the most part agree with you xcman, however I’m not 100% sure how this Jimmy Graham thing will all play out.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/5285/brandt-graham-debate-tough-to-predict

  55. There is a difference Georgia – it has to go through channels and then probably an Arbiter. Not just because he wants to be listed as a WR. There is protocol for them to follow – He may win and be declared as a WR – which I think will bring far fewer options – I don’t think teams want him as a WR but as a TE.

    Just my thoughts

  56. wabubba67 says:

    They count the number of snaps where Graham lined up as a WR and as a TE. Majority wins. Just as Seattle will do with Bennett at DE and DT.

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