Seahawks Insider

Morning Links: Sam comes out, NFL world reacts

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Feb. 10, 2014 at 1:11 am with 131 Comments »
February 10, 2014 1:12 am

Good morning.

NFL prospect Michael Sam, the SEC co-Defensive Player of the Year after picking up 11.5 sacks for Missouri last year, publicly announced yesterday that he is gay. If Sam makes a team, he will be the first publicly gay player in NFL history. The New York Times first had the story. Here it is.

The NFL put out a statement about the announcement:

“We admire Michael Sam’s honesty and courage. Michael is a football player. Any player with ability and determination can succeed in the NFL. We look forward to welcoming and supporting Michael Sam in 2014.”

> Here’s a roundup of some reaction to Sam’s announcement.

> SI talked to eight NFL executives about what coming out could mean for Sam in the draft.

> Peter King’s column at MMQB focuses on Sam coming out, but also talks Seahawks with its second item.

> Forbes says thanks to the Super Bowl win, Seattle can say goodbye to the title of “most miserable sports city.”

> The Denver Post says the Super Bowl quickly became a battle of attitudes.

> SI with some storylines to watch this offseason.

> looks at the Seahawks’ free agent decisions coming up. Not anything new there.

Leave a comment Comments → 131
  1. CDHawkFan says:

    While I am ‘middle aged’ I am so glad I live in a generation that will mostly accept this. I used ‘mostly’ because there are always a few homophobic/over religious people out there that will bash him, but thankfully they are now the minority.

    Sam’s friends and family should be very proud of him for taking this on, its about time someone did.

  2. DanielleMND says:

    I loved Malcolm Smith’s response: “There is no room for bigotry in American sports. It takes courage to change the culture.” Indeed. Good luck to Sam.

  3. montanamike2 says:

    I had a brother,(different father), who died of AIDS almost 20 years ago. His childhood was brutal and i was helpless to help him since he was 5 years older than me and all his tormenters were much older and bigger. It really bothers me that i could keep him alive now days for under 50 cents a day. I have to admit that i was uncomfortable with him, but i truly believe he would be a regular guy who happened to be gay by now,(he was full blown flaming), he saved my life 3 times as a child and he would be accepted by most in this day and age. Sorry for another morning rant.

  4. confucious says:

    I know that i really got shredded last time the subject came up on this blog. But here it goes. I think its wrong. So does nature, judging by the equipment supplied at birth.
    How I feel is less the point than how it is advertised. Gay is pushed on the American society. It’s part of nearly every show on TV. Radio broadcasts, you name it. “There is a time and place for everything” is what my parents drilled into my head as a youth. Imo if you wanna be gay, be gay. But don’t push it on the public. If you are that secure with your sexual orientation, why do you need acceptance from the rest of us?

  5. montanamike2 says:

    On a more positive note: isn’t it great to be drafting at #32 this year?

  6. montanamike2 says:

    confucious i agree somewhat, i think people are generally accepting but don’t want it in their face 24/7. I like how Native Americans dealt with it, there was a place for them in their culture, but it wasn’t the core of their society.

  7. confucious says:

    My condolences Montana.

  8. montanamike2 says:

    Thanks confucious, that’s life.

  9. GeorgiaHawk says:

    He should have kept his mouth shut until after the draft. Now he may not get drafted at all.

  10. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “confucious i agree somewhat, i think people are generally accepting but don’t want it in their face 24/7.”

    montanamike2- It sounds like you could be describing Tebow and Religion too. Lol.

    Imo, teams serious about winning Super Bowls just won’t take the chance with potential distractions.

  11. montanamike2 says:

    That does describe Tebow doesn’t it? I like RW’s approach better.

  12. RDPoulsbo says:

    Maybe I’m coming at it from the wing direction, but the way I see it, people complaining about ‘having gays shoved into your face’ are the same people who were up in arms about Janet Jackson’s boobs. It’s not just about gays as it it’s about being hung up about sex in general. If you perceive gays and lesbians solely by who they have sex with, then you’re just going to have problems with it to begin with. This is where the puritans need to get over themselves. They are living centuries in the past when the church used sex to control their followers.

  13. chuck_easton says:

    OK confusious not a slam but a retort.

    “Want to be gay, be gay”? Really? At what age did you choose to be straight? Was it a hard choice? Did you weigh the pros and cons of each choice? What turned the tide for the straight side?

    In other words, people are what and who they are. We don’t know why, but it isn’t a choice.

    As for having to hide it, great! Go into work today and take down every picture of you and your wife and family. Even the dog. Oh, and don’t you dare talk about what you and your wife did around the house this weekend. You know that is just pushing your lifestyle in the face of that gay co-worker you don’t even notice. It makes him real uncomfortable to have to listen to you constantly talking about your straight lifestyle. If you want to be straight, go ahead, just don’t talk about it all the time.

  14. Why does he have to take down the picture of the dog?

  15. chuck_easton says:

    :) I knew I could count on you BobbyK to pick up on that one! Just taking it to the ridiculous extreme.

  16. lol

    This is one of those threads where nobody is going to change anyone else’s mind no matter how hard they try (that’s when it usually gets ugly) so I think I’ll come back tomorrow when the talk will get back to football.

    Have a good day:)

    If anyone needs a good reason to get into a good mood – just think about this: The Seahawks recently won the Super Bowl!!!

  17. chuck_easton says:


    In other words, a player or a co-worker coming out is just that person wanting to be able to talk about their lives just as anyone else does.

    I have yet to hear a person go on national TV and say “I’m gay, oh and this weekend my boyfriend and I had a really fun sex scene…let me tell you about it!” No, coming out is just that person wanting to be able to be open about his/her family life just like you are each and every day of your life.

    I’m sure you don’t go into to the office and regale your co-workers about your Saturday night goings on with the wife, and who did what to whom. But you do talk about the weekend in the garden, the funny movie you went to see, what that smart little Suzie said at breakfast.

    That is what coming out means to my gay friends. Just being able to talk about what they and their husband did around the house this weekend without worrying about somebody saying “that’s just gross…”

  18. CDHawkFan says:

    Bobby, dogs, actually all animals seem gay, they hump anything anytime, but nature doesn’t seem to care.

    I think Chuck was saying pictures of the ‘family’ dog could be offensive to someone that doesn’t have a family (or offend those having a harder time having a ”family” due to being gay).

  19. RDPoulsbo says:

    Think society isn’t squeamish about sex in general? How long do you think your post would stay up if you included the f word spelled out? A time and place usually means there is no time or place since no one will define said time and place.

    If it doesn’t effect you, only you can choose to be offended or not.

  20. sluggo42 says:

    Regardless of each of our personal opinions about the “gay”, the draft will ultimately decide his fate. Being that NFL teams are mostly a bunch of gnarly he-men, I’m doubting he gets drafted.
    If he was a clear #1 prospect at QB or something, hard to say, but a bit player will have a hard time I’m guessing. It would be a media circus.

    While true that the gay are born into themselves, and do not deserve to be ostracized in any way, I also have to agree with Confucius. It seems almost every show now-adays has to have the “gay” couple. Too much for my opinion, but liberal Hollywood runs runs the entertainment world, so we get what we get. We have the option to change the channel, right?

  21. chuck_easton says:


    Just as 60’s and early 70’s Hollywood had to have the ‘token black’ in every TV show and movie. There were some that were offended by seeing blacks and whites interacting together.

    Then there was the ultra controversial ‘interracial couple’.

    There was push back on those, but it was the media’s way of making the fact that not all people are white families with 2.5 children (Ozzy and Harriot, the Cleavers, the Nelsons).

    Do you think there weren’t inter-racial couples before TV starting having them? Do you think that blacks and whites didn’t actually talk to each other before TV started including the one ‘black friend’?

    The token gay couple is todays move to simply say these couples are here. They have been here. It’s not a bad thing that the two guys next door may not just be roommates and good friends. And the world didn’t end.

    OK, off my soapbox and back to football.

    We should have an idea of where the team is going soon. There are roster bonuses coming due on March 11th. If the team is planning on cutting a player or asking them to take a pay-cut/restructure we should know by then. You don’t give a guy a million dollar bonus if you are going to cut him.

  22. CDHawkFan says:

    Sluggo, true about the gnarly he-man NFL, but I think there would also be an ‘issue’ if in the NBA or MLB, though its just a matter of time before someone there comes out while playing/in their prime.

    Its an interesting point when you bring up the fact that there are clearly many lesbian’s in female sports (basketball/softball) and it sure doesn’t seem to bother their teammates/fans/Front Office.

  23. thursday says:

    Whoever made the Tebow connection is right. The distraction factor is going to make fo’s squeamish

  24. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    lol, always love these topics. i remember some of the same people that are standing up for samm tearing tebow up, can’t have it both ways guys.

    let me preface this by the fact that i have gay friends(some of my best friends)i am also a devote christian and although i have issues with their lives morally and biblically it is not my place to either condemn or judge them.( love the person hate the sin) i could quote verse on this but the people taking issue with this don’t care why christians feel the way they do. that said if you are getting angry about this you are no more tolerant then the people you profess are wrong and therefore no better. this is america people we all have the right to beleave in what we want particularly when it comes to religious freedom. don’t be so quick to condemn anyone for their beliefs or lack there of we all deal with this journey in our own way my friends and a lack of tolerance never makes it easier.

    montana, so sorry for your loss i know nothing i can say will ease the hurt you feel.

  25. montanamike2 says:

    Hey it’s all good, but thanks. Really it’s a distraction from a football blog that clearly has no solution because everybody has a different opinion on the subject. How awesome that we pick 32?

  26. RDPoulsbo says:

    I personally don’t think it will be nearly as big a deal as people are making it out to be. Remember when Chris Culliver said he wouldn’t welcome a gay player in the locker room? That was shut down real quickly. Players were polled last year saying they’d overwhelmingly not have a problem with it and that a player’s ability is most important.

    The only people who will try to make it a big deal will be your typical groups paid money to be offended by gays like your Focus on the Family groups. Remember when Sherman yelled into a TV camera, your typical race baiters jumped in even though they have no connection with football? How about the LOB telling each other, “I love you!” before every game? Oh noes! Sherman must be gay! Don’t tell his girlfriend about that. Just quit paying attention to people paid to tell you to be offended and you’ll have a better life.

  27. chuck_easton says:


    The fact you profess your faith is wonderful! Wilson thanked god at the end of the SB and nobody blinked.

    I would never think to tell you not to be a devout Christian. I would never think to tell you that you need to change your ways. I have no issue whatsoever with you saying openly and honestly you are a Christian.

    Where the line gets crossed, by some, is when the professed Christian attempts to tell another person that their life is wrong, that their life is a sin, that their life is evil.

    Funny, I’ve never heard a gay person say, I’m gay and you should all be gay too! It’s the only real way to live your life. Anyone who isn’t gay is a sinner!

    Everyone should be free to be who they are. Everyone should feel free to be honest about who they are without fear of condemnation and scorn.

    This is just the age of the gay community seeking inclusion.

    And remember hawkfaninoklahoma, there was a time when you would be put to death, be put in an arena with wild beasts, and would be publicly scorned for telling us you are Christian.

  28. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    montana, i know right? hey maybe better yet they trade down and pick later yet.

  29. montanamike2 says:

    As for the first rounds i think we should switch to a more conservative pick in the first couple of rounds and swing for the fences in the later rounds.

  30. As much as I love the regular and post season – I also love to put on my GM cap and work the FA and draft board in the off season.

    Its early on, but here are some draft options that might make sense @ #32.

  31. GeorgiaHawk says:

    This part of the Denver Post article really cracked me up.

    “Poor Welker. He got chewed out twice for a play he had no chance of making.”

    First Sherman chewed Welker out on the field and after that Manning chewed Welker out on the sideline.

    Kam just made a great play on him. Lol.

    Maybe Manning needed a good chewing out for trying to audition for Duck Dynasty.

  32. Palerydr says:

    I figured Chuck would have a big voice in a discussion about gays as he has chastised me for my views in the past. I consider myself to be Christian in my way of thinking and pretty much center in most of my views with an occasional right and left turn. I watched the movie 42 last night and there are some similarities to what this guy Sam is going to go through. Make no mistake there are millions of people who tolerate, but disagree totally with a gay life style. Many more than the people who openly accept a gay lifestyle. Some of these people are gonna give this guy the same kind of abuse Jackie Robinson faced on the field and off. Hopefully he will have the guts to fight, but not fight back(literally). Good luck Mike Sams cuz you’re gonna need a strong will to succeed.

  33. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chuck my point is this, don’t condemn anyone period. again if the guy can ball who cares if he is gay? my feelings on it. i do not agree with a coming out party before the draft, why now why not in college or sooner yet? this is calculated move on his part.

    my whole point of my previous post is that we all need to be tolerant of each other. this is a football blog if we are going to berate and belittle each other let’s keep it to football not things that really matter and can really hurt each other.

  34. How about this excuse from a Bronco fan on the Denver Post article linked above. LOL!!!

    vandeewine on Yesterday, 12:24 pm #3302854

    Watching this game, I was suddenly reminded that this same Seahawks team has already had five guys suspended from PED use in the past two years. Not to mention, they have a head coach in Pete Carroll who doesn’t exactly have the most sterling past, ethics-wise.

    Watching their defense play, it reminded me of the 1998 home run chase, where you can’t believe what you’re watching, because it is just so incredible.

    And then years later we all found out exactly why it was so incredible.

    To me it just made no sense that a defense of mostly low round draft picks and even a couple of undrafted guys could take the greatest offense in NFL history and one of the top five QBs of all time and make them all look like incompetent fools with seemingly NO effort.

    What we saw makes no sense whatsoever. It looked unnatural. It was like they not only knew what was coming, but were so physically overwhelming that it was like men vs. boys.

    And how exactly is is that ALL of the Seattle defenders could be playing at an all-pro level? As I said, they have guys drafted in the 5th and 6th and 7th rounds and even UNDRAFTED guys playing like the greatest defenders in NFL history. Can anyone else out there think of another team that has hit the jackpot on that many low-round players? Like ever? Sherman is a fifth rounder. Chancellor is a fifth rounder. Byron Maxwell is a sixth rounder. Malcolm Smith is a seventh rounder and won the freakin’ MVP. Chris Clemons was undrafted and bounced around to five different teams and did nothing his entire career and then he lands with the Seahawks and all of a sudden he’s their sack leader and posting double digit sacks every year that he’s with the team.

    One thing I’ve learned is that when something is too good to be true, it usually isn’t.

    I’m telling you all, something is very, VERY fishy here.

    And before any of you go spouting off about how wrong I am or crazy I sound, read this first:

    And then ask yourself those same questions again.

  35. Hopefully, this announcement will make 31 other FOs squeamish!

  36. “I had a brother,(different father), who died of AIDS almost 20 years ago. His childhood was brutal and i was helpless to help him since he was 5 years older than me and all his tormenters were much older and bigger.”

    I think this is part of the answer to the question of why it’s significant that Sam is coming out publicly. Because when Sam, and others come out publicly, and people realize that the stereotypes and other-ness aren’t true, then we start moving toward a world where gay kids (and adults too) aren’t brutally tormented. And whatever your views on the subject is, we can all at least agree that they don’t deserve that treatment, right?

    On another point, when I watched the interview and Sam was asked about the timing, one of the reasons was that there was word that it was going to come out as a natl story, and he decided to get ahead of it, and make the announcement himself.

    I think the kid has guts, and if he can play and contribute, I’d be proud for the Hawks to pick him.

  37. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    MDhawk, that is truly funny, you see the same thing on niners blogs.

  38. chuck_easton says:

    Sam had already come out to his entire college team. The report said that he actually played better afterwards because he didn’t feel like he was hiding anymore.

    hawkfaninoklahoma. We are in agreement. Nobody should be condemned for speaking out about who they are. I don’t agree with Christian bashing, gay bashing, Jewish bashing, muslim bashing, bashing people with weight problems, racial discrimination, attacking people that think little green men performed probes on them…

    I may not agree with everything I see, hear, read, but it’s not my place to tell the other person they are wrong, or they have no right saying that outloud. In fact I prefer that there be open communication on pretty much every subject. How else can I have the opportunity to make that personal decision about how I feel about subjects?

    The big pink elephant is in the room. It’s not going away. We might as well be able to discuss if it fits the decor or if we want to paint it a different colour. Pretending it’s not there or just trying to hide it under a throw rug won’t work anymore.

  39. thursday says:

    I’d like to know why certain other teams’ fandoms *coughwhinerscoughbroncoscough* have to believe that either the game was rigged, starting with the NFCC, or the Seahawks are on some kind of amazing PEDs. Also, those people are totally deluding themselves if they don’t think the majority of the NFL does steroids. AND if they think that somehow there’s some magical PED out there that makes you smarter, faster, bigger and stronger all at the same time.

    And let’s further note that these “five guys suspended for PED” were mostly practice squad guys that are no longer with the team.

  40. Ray_Maines says:

    RDPoulsbo — Thank you.

    “Just quit paying attention to people paid to tell you to be offended and you’ll have a better life.”

  41. Singularitarian says:

    That’s a big step for this man to take. I don’t know much about college football draft stuff, but I got to think most teams would try and draft the best player available regardless. I would be happy if Seattle picked this guy up, if he has the skills that Carroll and co were looking for. It would also be cool to see the team make Clemmons play with this guy after his homophobic comments a ways back. A kind of “you’re entitled to your opinion but we aren’t going to take it into consideration while drafting other human beings” statement

  42. seahawksteven777 says:

    I support gay people. To those that think it’s wrong, gay people are eventually going to be accepted so might as well just deal with it.

    Some say what they do in their personal life is wrong. Um, if you’re anti-gay, then why do you force yourself to think about what gay people do in their own time? That’s about the second gayest thing you can do aside from being gay. It’s a stupid reason to justify being anti-gay.

  43. tealskin says:

    It’s the whole gays in the military argument again. It takes time to reverse centuries of programming. And we all have our individual hangups. Change is a bitch.

  44. It’d be folly for some of these “fans” to pretend that Seattle is the only team that’s ever had players suspended for violating the league’s drug policies. Whatever Bruce Irvin took must have made him less visible on the field, it sure wasn’t any wonder performance substance. It does get a bit sweeter when the ones complaining about Seattle have to put up with their own team taking a fall.

    No team is truly above reproach.

  45. chuck_easton says:

    What this really comes down to is there are still fans and media people out there that cannot and will not accept the concept that Seattle just MIGHT be a very good football team.

    So Seattle must have cheated to get where they are. There is no other explanation. Hard work, solid competition, a strong work ethic, and the refusal to accept mediocracy could have nothing to do with it.

    Plain and simple. The whole team is on PED’s that are being actively supplied by the team. The fact that 5 people in two years (3 of whom are no longer on the team and the fourt, Thurmond, may be on his way out) is proof!

    I look at this similar to what is happening to Canada at the Olympics right now.

    Our Canadian figure skating team, as a whole, are quite good. Just won the Silver medal behind Russia and ahead of the US. So, obviously Canada is doing something illegal. They couldn’t really be that good.

    Canadian skaters were literally getting drug tested a mere hours before they are to skate because Russia and the US have agreed that Canada is up to something.

  46. RDPoulsbo says:

    Denver fans of all fanbases shouldn’t be complaining about PEDs with Von Miller not only taking them, but actively trying to undermine the drug testing process to begin with. They also shouldn’t try tying pot into the suspensions either since they voted for legalization just like Washington did.

  47. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    i don’t see him coming to the seahawks, read the draft report on him is underwhelming to say the least. he might not even get picked up i n the draft. although this move may just guarantee someone does.

    guys again standing up and beating your chest and saying you support gays does not make you a good person or right for that matter. i will say this again i am a christian and i will always be ok with the person and love them as my brother, however my beliefs say it is not ok. so to say i may as well accept it is forcing your beliefs on me. i do not condemn nor in anyway berate gays however i do not believe it is ok.( my beliefs not based on hate but the bible which i choose to believe in) that said it is his life to live not mine. i notice this with people that scream for tolerance but show little themselves. i am not forcing my beliefs on any of you but i do feel the need to stand up for my faith as it seems i must conform or be labeled a bigot.

    i remember the tebow bashing on here and i also remember how harsh i was toward some doing it and realize my faith teaches that we love all as ourselves ,(yankinta really puts that to the test).

    there is really no story here other than a guy who apparently was openly gay decides to share it with the world right before one of the most deciding days of his life. seems self serving to me. i could be very wrong on that but the guy has an agent and its the agents job to find angles, just saying.

  48. Southendzone says:

    I’m pretty sure the PFWA paid this guy off to make his announcement yesterday. What the hell else were they going to talk about for the next 2 months?


  49. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    first mock draft i see hawks taking aaron donald Dt Pitt, guy looks like a beast..

  50. chuck_easton says:


    Well said. And I am a champion for all people to have the right to be treated equally and fairly. That sometimes comes out as pro-gay and anti-christian. I’m not anti-christain.

    You have every right to believe in your faith. You have every right to pattern your life and that of your family based on the teachings of your church.

    And you are the type of Christian that I have as regular friends, along with my gay friends, my Muslim friends, my Hindu friends, and such. We all have our perspective and it’s great when we debate.

    I was not ‘attacking’ confusious for how he/she feels nor was I telling him/her she/he’s wrong to have those beliefs. I’m challenging him/her to examine those beliefs and determine if they are what he/she’s been told is true or if there might be another posibility.

    I only call bigotry and intolerance when a person or group attempts to force others to conform to their thinking and beliefs. You see this more in religion where religion A is better than religion B. And not just between Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, Buddism, and such. I still have friends that believe only Catholism is the true religion and all other protestant religions are false and those people are ‘damned to hell’. So it’s not just you have to believe. You have to believe in the ‘right god’ and the ‘right bible’ and the ‘true teachings.’

    I could get into a long debate about religion as it actually is one of my favorite subjects. I come at it more from an outside looking in and tend to challenge certain concepts and beliefs. But I’m not anti religion. I’m just not sure I can accept the words of a 2000 year old book that was translated by people 800 years or more after the events supposedly happened as being entirely historically accurate. But that’s just me.

  51. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’m not sure who will pick him up since scouting reports are mixed. On the one hand, he was the SEC DPOY, on the other, most of his sacks came against poor competition. A lot of his measurables sound like he’d fit the Leo position, but that’s a ‘tweener problem for most other teams. He might be that guy with a chip on his shoulder with the unique skills that JS is looking for. I guess we’ll see what the FO thinks of him come draft time since he sounds like a guy JS would go after that other teams wouldn’t.

    I really don’t care whether he’s gay or not. Or as Lynch would put it, I’m about that action, boss. As I said about Tebow before, I didn’t care that he was ultra religious. A good number of the players on Seattle’s roster are. It was the fact that he completely lacked QB skills. If people perceive that he was persecuted, perhaps his followers should blame God for not bestowing upon him the QB skills to succeed in the NFL.

  52. SandpointHawk says:

    That Denver dude is all wrong about which team was on drugs. The Bronco’s played like they had just smoked a bong of that legal Colorado bud. Just have a look at Peyton’s reaction time and the look on his face during the safety and you just know he was baked…

  53. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I think this is what it all comes down to for a lot of us straight men,(religious or not).
    I would feel very uncomfortable and perhaps even disgusted with taking a group shower with gay men.
    However I would be delighted and happy as hell to have a shower with a group of lesbians.

    Most men are simply conditioned early on to reject male to male physical affection even if it is non sexual. It is a sign of weakness,(for the most part) in this country.

    Hell I got kicked out of a mall for hugging my girlfriend and giving her a kiss, and we were in our 40s.

    Imagine what they would do to a gay person for that.

    Gay or straight, this country is screwed up with regards to sex and physical affection. Especially down here in the southeast.

    Violence and killing seems to be more socially acceptable. Just watch public TV.

  54. banosser says:

    Yep.. it’ll interesting to see if he’s even drafted.. if a FO will take a chance on it being a major distraction.. or I should say the major distraction it will be.. I believe he is projected as a 3rd or 4th round pick.. If so I could see him dropping to the 6th or 7th.. If so will he have legal repercussions?

    The combine, the draft, OTAs, training camp will have one focus now.. Whatever team drafts him will be in for it.. then what does a FO do when it’s time to eventually release him?? Why are they really cutting him hmm?? I don’t care one iota what his sexual orientation is.. but he just made this all about himself whether he wanted to or not… I personally do not want the media distraction this would bring to the locker-room.. let some other team deal with it

  55. @hawkfaninoklahoma – “my beliefs say it is not ok, so to say I may as well accept it is forcing your beliefs on me.”

    Wow, people had that same opinion about women and black people too. I’m curious as to what you would say to those people. Would you tell them it would be wrong to feel that way or tell them it’s ok?

  56. HawkfaninMT says:

    Is Clint McDonald a UFA or RFA? According to this RFA… But it is Rotoworld afterall!

  57. Who stands for SHEEP HERDERS Rights,don’t they have a right to a love life with their ewe and to marry if they choose?

  58. ChrisHolmes says:

    I’m glad my generation is going to be the one to break the barrier on this one. Good for Sam. It’s about time. Bigoted thinking doesn’t have a place in this world anymore. Neither do any religious institutions that continue to preach and teach that crap. The pope is realizing this. It’s time for the rest of the religious homophobes and bigots to see it too.

    I just wanted to address one other thing: the whole argument of “nature says it’s wrong”. Just goes to show how ignorant you are, those of you who believe that crap. There are examples of homosexual behavior all over nature. Go do some reading, if your primitive mind can actually perform the task, which I seriously doubt, since your kind prefers to parrot hateful dogma.

    Human beings, like all living creatures with a brain, do what they do because synapses fire a certain way. The chemicals in your brain react a certain way. You’re predisposed to behave a particular way and respond a certain way because of the gray matter between your ears. We’re all wired like this.

    This is why Schizophrenics can’t just “wish it away”, or why people with Bipolar disease can’t just “stop being bipolar”. It’s in your brain. Sexual orientation is no different. It’s part of your brain chemistry. No one makes a “choice” about it. THAT is “nature” – straight biology homey.

    When did any of you bigots ever choose your sexual orientation? When you were five? Ten? Did you wait until you were a teenager and decide, “Oh, yeah, I guess I should like girls, since everyone else does.”

    The answer is, you didn’t choose your sexual orientation. No one does.

    To suggest that there is “something wrong” with a homosexual person, or that “nature is against them”, or whatever other B.S. excuse you want to try and put forth, is wrong and ignorant. All you’re doing is attempting to make yourself superior and the homosexual inferior. And that is a great human crime that has been perpetuated for millennium.

    Hearing such things from fellow human beings makes me sick.

  59. rramstad says:

    Chris, not a ditto head on your entire post, but wanted to emphasize that not only are there tons of individual examples of homosexual behavior through the years — many in memoirs or journals from basically every time period you can name — there’s evidence of group accepted homosexual behavior, especially among men, in just about every “enlightened” culture i.e. Rome, Greece, France during some of their most powerful and influential periods. I’ve also heard (but not independently confirmed) that some of the early cave drawings that depict sexual conduct depict homosexual behavior.

    I just think it’s interesting that same sex sexual relationships have been going on for as long as we have the written word, and almost certainly longer, which makes it really hard to argue (with a straight face) that they are somehow not natural or shouldn’t be valued and accepted as much as straight relationships.

    Don’t even get me started with the statistical facts that same sex couples are more likely to stay together for longer periods of time, and more likely to have well adjusted children, than straight couples…

  60. GeorgiaHawk says:

    If we were more like the Bonobo’s and less like their cousins the Chimpanzees this world would be a safer place to live.

    BTW- How can someone,(that is religious) say that a gay life style is wrong on one hand but a violent life style like football is right on the other hand?

  61. SeventiesHawksFan says:

    Even if McDonald is an RFA, do you think JS / PC put a second round tender on him and commit themselves to the salary requirements after cutting and then signing him for league minimum last year?

    I sure hope PC / JS put a first round tender on Baldwin though. And offer him a five to seven year deal that is cap friendly with a big bonus this year.

    There is NO REASON to put our team through the uncertain process of finding a replacement for our most reliable third down target.

    Having Tate, Harvin, and Baldwin locked up for the next five years would be absolutely and utterly fantastic and reason for celebration if you ask me. Add one developmental receiver tall receiver to the mix (or Lockette finally gets there) and get Kearse resigned to a longer term deal next season and our receiver group is set and incredibly dangerous for a multiple Super Bowl run.

    And it means that we can keep our drafts focused on our bigger long term needs that we don’t want to pay a lot for: O line, D Line, restocking upcoming DB and LB departures.

    I really can see no reason whatsoever to make RW go through the process of developing new chemistry with any more than one or two new receivers over the next three to four years.

  62. SeventiesHawksFan says:

    I think there will be multiple GM’s who will draft Sam where he’s projected. The overwhelming response of the league and players is clear support and even thank you. Maybe there’s a couple teams where Sam wouldn’t be accepted well.

    But I also bet there are 20 others that would want and embrace him (figuratively) and let him know without hesitation: we’re good with you and we have your back bro and we’re never going to let anyone mess with you.

    I think Sam is going to have a virtual protection squad and racket around him with the team that takes him. And there will be one that does.

    And also no player, reporter, coach or commenter in his right mind will be stupid enough to suggest any problem with him either. Which would be an act of social and professional suicide.

  63. chuck_easton says:


    Just a question? Do you belong to a gym? Do you change and shower in the locker room there? If the answer to those two questions is yes, then I hate to break it to you, but you have probably already been in the shower with a gay man.

    As a general group, men in the gay community have less demands on their personal time and therefore have more time to spend on their own physical wellbeing. Pretty much every gay friend I have talks almost as much about their last trip to the gym as I talk about my son.

    And as an aside to your comment about straight guys and the ‘thought’ of that stuff consenting people do I can say this. During my police academy days we went through cultural sensitivity. Since I was a cop in SF you can pretty much guess there was a large section on how to interact with the greater LGTB community.

    One of the questions asked (anonymously) was does the thought of two people of the same gender having, um, relations make you uncomfortable. Almost to an answer sheet (we only had to tell if we were male or female, no names) the men in my academy class responded “not if it’s two women!”.

  64. montanamike2 says:

    My brother used to say that he wished there was a “straight pill” that would make him better. The soldiers in ancient armies had male relationships and often thought of women as breeding machines, even in the orient. This was not always the case though. Gays don’t bother me, to each their own, i do have grudges against rapists and pedophiles though.

  65. GeorgiaHawk says:

    SeventiesHawksFan- I think that’s more of wishful thinking on your part.
    You may be partly right at first however if it starts turning into a Tebow like media circus teams will have no choice but to part ways with him.
    Unless he turns out to be a big time talent, which in that case talent trumps anything else.

  66. chuck_easton says:

    Everyone should have grudges against rapist and pedofiles montanamike. And statistically well over 90% of identified pedofiles identify as straight.

  67. montanamike2 says:

    Probably more than 90%.

  68. doubledink says:

    Since when is disagreement bigotry?

    Anyone who takes seriously the commands to love God and their neighbor is not required to agree with those whom them love. And as far as predisposition, I am predisposed to bed every female I find attractive. But that does not give me license to pursue it or to call it normal.

    I believe that homosexuality is one of many, many forms of sexual immorality but I would no sooner “bash” gays than I would anyone who is a fornicator or adulterer. Gays are members of society and are afforded equal protection under the law. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with them. Adultery is no longer a crime in our society but I don’t have to accept it as good and proper. Many today believe that it is as genetically disposed as is gender or ethnicity but that is not established. If it were, people could not change. As Colin Powell said, “There are no ex-blacks, but there are thousands of ex-gays.”

    Lest you think I am totally ignorant of the issue I will add that 2 of my childhood friends died of AIDS and another is HIV positive. I’ve hunted and camped with gay men on numerous occasions. I’ve slept in the same bed with a gay friend while our wives were at a retreat and we watched our kids together and continued to enjoy a close friendship with him for years. I ended that relationship only when he started making inroads toward encouraging me to break my marriage vows. It’s a long story.

  69. GeorgiaHawk says:

    chuck- I have lived in the Atlanta metro area for more than 25 years, and for much of that time I belonged to some kind of gym. Of course I knew there were many gays in the dressing room.

  70. seahawksteven777 says:

    I agree with Chris. If your religious beliefs say being gay isn’t right, sorry that’s wrong and ignorant. Don’t care where it’s from, it’s wrong. You can’t say someone knowing who they are and what they want in life is wrong. They aren’t wrong for that, you are for believing that it’s wrong.

    The bible also mentions that women who aren’t virgins before marriage should be stoned. Do we follow that? No. It says it in the bible but we don’t follow it.

  71. seahawkNJ says:

    Gay/straight, black/white, green/purple, democrat/republican….if he can get to the quarterback, the NFL will find a spot for him. This isn’t even news when the hawks open the season on 9/4.

  72. montanamike2 says:

    doubledink i had the same problem multiple times, i’ve been hit on by so many guys it’s ridiculous, but that’s common in the medical field. When i got married all these hot women started hitting on me. Where were they when i was single? What’s up with that?

  73. RDPoulsbo says:

    There are a whole lot more references in the bible that tell you that you shall eat no swine. To that I say, bacon!

  74. Chuck_Easton–You, Sir, are simply “Killing it” today. I was going to post a few in-depth comments, but you stated the case eloquently enough, it would simply be icing a cake that has icing already. Excellent points, eloquently stated.

    I know you disagree with a good bit of my comments, but for once we’re eye to eye.

  75. GeorgiaHawk says:

    montanamike2- I hear you.

    When I was younger I wished all gays would come out in the open.
    I got so tired of some acting like friends to me only to have other plans in mind, and they knew I made it clear I was straight but for some reason some think they can change you.

    Hell, My High School counselor of all people came onto me.

    I don’t hold this against all gays but it sure was frustrating at times.

  76. chuck_easton says:


    And our disagreements are all about our opinions about how to keep this fantastic team together! Those are fun and enjoyable disagreements.

  77. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “And statistically well over 90% of identified pedofiles identify as straight.”

    And the other 10% are Catholic priests.

  78. montanamike2 says:
  79. HawkfaninOK–This kid simply came out and said he was gay, so no one else could out him first. He had already come out to his teammates and coaches.

    He’s not running around in high heels with a purse, he’s not macking on his BF in public, he’s not dressed in the Gay Pride Flag, he’s not constantly making reference to his sexual orientation–especially when he makes a play on the football field. And he’s not running his mouth off trying to convert others to be gay. Hell, he’s not even pushing Gay Pride.

    Tebow, however, did many of those things (not the purse etc, but loudly pushing his religion, making a spectacle of his beliefs, praying in an ostentatious manner after big plays, etc.) Plus Tebow is fake humble and still seems to think he should be handed a job without having to earn it the hard way–you know, actually beat someone out in camp/practice first–because of who he is and the fact that he’s religious. Thats the real reason so many like me cant stand him–not because he’s religious (I couldnt care less about that) but that he’s so ostentatious and pushy about it, and he uses it to justify his entitlement.

    Sam isnt doing any of those things. He simply said, Yup, Im gay. Now he wants to play football, and should be allowed that opportunity. He shouldnt have to pretend to be straight to play football, nor should he be forced to feel inferior, or hide the fact that he’s gay.

    Many religions believe women are inferior. Some believe certain races are better than others/more beloved by God, etc. Thats bigotry, and I personally judge anyone who acts in a bigoted way quite harshly. Saying its their religion and therefore sacred or even makes their opinion sanctified makes me sick. Its not okay to be a bigot, and I dont give a good Goddamn if someones religion espouses that, it just means their religion is sick and wrong.

    The Church of Satan is a real religion. So is Santeria. So is Voodoo. They, just like Right Wing Christianity, have a legal right to exist and practice in the US. However, they do NOT have the legal right to act in a bigoted manner.

    In this country, you have many rights–until those rights infringe on someone else’s rights.

    On a side note’ I have a gay sister. Her girlfriend is an evil cow. I pretty much detest that woman. But it has nothing to do with her being gay, she’s just a terrible person.

  80. montanamike2 says:

    Evil Cow. lol

  81. doubledink says:

    Sam was smart to bring this out now. Let the media firestorm hit now prior to the combine so no one could claim he was hiding it or misleading the teams. If it was as well known as it was, it was bound to come out anyway. If he performs his job he won’t have any trouble. If he underperforms he could unfortunately see added pressure.

  82. chuck_easton says:


    My condolences on the ‘sister-in-law’. My best friend’s partner is a total jerk. I can’t stand the guy. But he’s married to my best friend so I have to ‘play nice’ if I want to be invited over for dinner and a movie.

  83. To make that clear, HawkfaninOK; its Tebow and religious folks who use their religion as a shield to justify bigoted behavior that I am upset about, not you.

    I still cant get my head around being gay, since Im not.

    And as others have pointed out, Homosexuality and bisexuality–while incomprehensible to me–are found throughout nature. Dolphins anyone?!

    Colin Powell is a smart military man, but he’s not a scientist studying human behavior or sexuality, so his opinions are worth about as much as ours. Being gay or bisexual is not a choice. My God, who in hell would CHOOSE to put themselves at such a disadvantage, as its punishable by death in some countries and certainly sets you up for discrimination in this country? Its not a choice, its not straight people becoming jaded with too much sex as Ive heard some idiots expound…My Sister knew in the first grade, and tried desperately into her twenties NOT to be gay. She’s gay. Period. It cant be helped.

  84. montanamike2 says:

    I wonder if the Dolphins draft him?

  85. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Does Percy Harvin still have to play two full games in a row to justify his contract? Lol.

  86. chuck_easton says:

    Given the fact that they are still trying to extricate themselves from the whole ‘incognito affair’ I’m going to guess that the Dolphins get a pass on this one without anybody calling foul.

  87. Chuck–Not only is this one a jerk, she’s abusive in many ways to my sister. And crazy. I dont see much of my sister, which kinda sucks, partly because of that. I just hope and pray she eventually leaves of her own volition and gets help. There’s not much I can do for her since she chooses to stay. I keep the door open, and I make it clear Im not changing my mind, but I dont push anything anymore.

    My Aunt is in an abusive straight relationship, and its the same story. You cant help those who refuse to help themselves.

  88. This post sure has a lot of comments. The only thing that could top it is we were to find out Andrew Luck was gay. Then we’d have the best of both worlds–gay chatter and comments on how Russell Wilson would be a better gay QB than Luck if he was gay.

  89. Chuck–I was just thinking the Dolphins might Draft the kid, just to make themselves look good. No Problem Here! Nothing To See Here…that kind of thing lol!

  90. arthurb–lol! You win best post on thread!

  91. You like that MontanaMike2 lol?! That was the nicest thing I could think of to say…

  92. chuck_easton says:


    YES DAMMIT!!!!!!! He’s one down. And it was great. Now he just has to make opening day and all is forgiven.


  93. montanamike2 says:

    STTBM hey sorry about that, that’s heavy.

  94. montanamike2 says:

    burden to bear i mean.

  95. doubledink says:

    I was referring to the predisposition aspect. I elected to not use the word, choice. Some folks have a tendency toward issues with covetousness and envy or bitterness for that matter without any sexually related urgings.

  96. chuck_easton says:

    Hey STTBM and Georgia,

    The Bucs just cut Gabe Carimi. From 1st round draft choice, to traded for a 7th rounder to cut.

    At least Carp has managed to last longer than that! Just sayin.

  97. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Lol chuck.
    That $3,000 dollars you spent on the Arizona game was a downer, however it all turned out good.

    Now we officially have the greatest Seahawks team of all-time with possibly more Super Bowls to come.

  98. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Carp just may turn the corner. I’m hoping he will.

  99. As far as changing anyones mind on this blog; I dont think Adults change their mind–even in the face of indisputable proof they are wrong–unless they are looking to have it changed.

    So Im not expecting to make anyone who thinks being Gay is wrong or gross to change their mind. Im still stuck on gross, so Im hardly Mr. Perfectly Accepting.

    What I was hoping to to was help some people understand that insisting Gay people should just hide it and pretend to be straight is wrong. They should be allowed to be who they are. If they were, I’d bet you’d see a lot less outlandish and/or pushy behavior, despite their being more openly gay people.

    I would also hope that those whose religion teaches that Homosexuality is wrong can learn to treat Gay people as humans with equal rights; I would hope they learn to see that bigoted behavior–such as insisting they hide their gayness–causes much suffering and is tantamount to bullying.

    Any truly Christian religion teaches one to treat even enemies–not just those you believe to be sinning–with love and compassion. This country allows you to believe as you will, but it does not allow you to use those beliefs as justification for bullying or treating others as inferior humans.

  100. montanamike2 says:

    I wanted Gabe Carimi too. You never know with the twins.

  101. doubledink says:

    I never would have seen Carimi fall that far, that fast. Carp did earn a start in the SB. Gotta give him that. But I hope he improves.

  102. Southendzone says:

    Ok how bout the Hawks draft him, and he develops a filthy sack dance similar to Michael Bennett? That would pretty much make everyone over the age of 50’s head explode.

  103. I wonder if Carimi’s injury his rookie year wrecked him. He looked really good in the early going, before that injury.

    Look at some of the players drafted after Carp though. That is depressing enough to make Mother Teresa go get drunk…

  104. SouthEndzone–Hahahaha! Thats funny!

  105. doubledink says:

    I understood that from your posts.

  106. MontanaMike2–Well, at least my sister is still alive and living as she chooses. I hate that she’s not being treated right, but again its her choice. But losing a brother to Aids–even one who made you uncomfortable–now THATS pretty heavy.

    Its a hard world, gay straight or indifferent–and thats for sure.

  107. montanamike2 says:

    Yeah people can be #$%&^%.

  108. Georgia,
    Was it not your state that revoked SODOMY laws and made it legal continue this behavior?

  109. I just don’t understand why people aren’t more accepting of people. I mean, isn’t the world a lonely enough place as it is? I’m not gay and have no problem with anyone’s sexuality. And it’s not as if gays tell straight people how they should live their lives so why is it that so many people feel they can?

    I think the young man is courageous to say the least. As much as all of us love football here, it’s still very neanderthal in it’s ways.

    At the end of the day, if the player can play, he will and if not then he’ll have to find something else to do. Plain and simple, but from my standpoint, I wish him nothing but the best.


  110. Southendzone says:

    Everything we ever needed to know on the subject, we learned from Seinfeld.


    What do y’all want to tackle tomorrow? Nuclear disarmament? World Hunger? Middle-East Peace?

  111. jawpeace says:

    I am with Confucious.
    I am friendly towards gay people. When my gay neighbor significant other died. I gave him a hug and said I was sorry.
    I disagree with the lifestyle. But disagreement does not give me a right to be a jerk.

    So many now are promoting tolerance. That is unless you are a Christian then they are bigots.

    As far as nature/the design. I never compare humans to animals. Animals are primarily instinctual. While humans are thought based. [This has been edited to abide by site policy.]

    Many gay and lesbians were in fact molested as a child. This perversion changed their brain chemistry when they were young. I am not saying that they will become child molesters. Though the truth is that a very high number of child molesters were indeed molested as a child.

    Some say it is not a choice. But numerous identical twins have proven that this is indeed a choice. One straight and one gay. They have the exact same genetic material. So you can not say they were born that way. Science has shown that sex affects the brain. When someone experiments in homosexual behaviors, they change the very chemistry of their brain. Resulting in someone becoming gay.

    If I was a NFL player I would not feel comfortable showering with a gay guy in the same shower. [EDIT]

    While many here will disagree with what I wrote. We all agree the Hawks are great.

  112. jawpeace–Man, where to begin…

    There are serious flaws in much of what you wrote. Im not gonna go over all of them, but;

    So no straight child who was molested by someone of the same sex grew up to be straight–their brain chemistry was altered and they all became gay?! You know that cant be backed up by fact, because its not true.

    Identical twins do NOT have the same genetic material. They have MANY of the same traits, but they are not the same genetically. So one being gay and one straight does not prove being gay is a simple choice at all. That is a logical fallacy.

    Human beings are animals, dude. Our DNA and Chimps, for instance, vary by less than 1%. We’re just sentient animals. However, many animals are not primarily instinctual, and use higher thought, like reasoning, planning, etc…and have emotions. Chimps and Gorillas learn sign language; they grieve. They are not simply instinctual automatons.

    If youre going to quote science, you’d better get it right and back it up with actual facts.

  113. Jawpeace–But I commend you for treating other humans with whom you disagree with respect. More people should take a cue from you.

  114. rramstad says:

    I don’t know where to start with jawpeace. I suppose I’d recommend doing some actual reading about the science regarding homosexuality. There is a whole bunch of untruth, misinformation and weird straw man arguments in that post.

    Did someone say bacon? MMMMMM…. bacon.

  115. Southendzone says:

    this conversation is off the rails, between the bonobo monkeys and jawpeace’s pg-13 post about biology, I’m gonna have to skip out til the next episode.

  116. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Southendzone- Don’t go away, the conversation is just beginning.

    Besides now that we have that coveted Super Bowl win we can relax a bit.

  117. “I disagree with the lifestyle.”

    There is no one “gay lifestyle”, just as there is no one “hetero lifestyle”. A sex act is not a “lifestyle”.

    People who talk about a “gay lifestyle” are usually the people who have been brainwashed by their church, or politicians, into fearing gay people, the “gay lifestyle” and the so called “gay agenda”. Some of them even think gay people are trying to “recruit” non gays into their “lifestyle”. That is how ignorant and gullible people can be.

  118. Wow, Georgia! Linking to court cases in Wikipedia. I damned sure never thought I’d see that from you, on a Seahawks blog lol! Good show!

    I think Seattle would be a great place for Sam, both in the locker-room, and in the area as a whole. He’s also sized right for Leo, and has that Benson Mayowa, “I may time slow but I just somehow get the qb on the ground all the damned time” thing going on.

  119. Sandpoint–Nice link; thanks! Michael Haynes and Lester Hayes were the greatest Corner duo in history. Sherm and Maxwell can be better if they stay here. Sherm and ET already are perhaps the greatest FS/CB combo of all time.

  120. doubledink says:

    I too think he could fit in this scheme, locker room, city.

  121. DanielleMND says:

    Some of the comments on here make me wonder what century I’m living in.

  122. DanielleMND says:

    “i do not agree with a coming out party before the draft, why now why not in college or sooner yet? this is calculated move on his part.”

    He did come out last year to his team, but rumors had been swirling for weeks about a gay college player and he got out in front of it all so he could control the narrative rather than the media, and also so he could be completely honest during team interviews at the combine.

  123. DanielleMND says:

    “read the draft report on him is underwhelming to say the least.”

    I’m going to say draft reports were probably underwhelming for a lot of the current team, including guys like Richard Sherman.

  124. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I don’t think he is doing this for publicity, however unfortunately the media will do their best to make this a circus.

    Weather the storm Sam.

  125. DanielleMND says:

    LGBT people are everywhere, including sports. It’s time some people just accepted that. We’re not going away. Sam may be the first, but he won’t be the last.

  126. jawpeace says:

    Sandpoint I too really liked your link. It did feel a little weird having a Raider from the hated 80’s gushing over the current Hawks.

  127. jawpeace–the Raiders used to gush over Largent when he was still playing. Haynes and Hayes hated him lol! Todd Christensen, the HOF TE who passed away from cancer recently was in awe of Easley after playing in a Pro Bowl with him. He said Easley was laying guys out in practice, so bad guys would fake injury so they wouldnt have to go over the middle! He said Easley was defensive MVP, had a pick or two, forced fumble, a bunch of tackles….but was pissed after the game. When Todd asked him why he was so upset, Easley said “I missed two tackles!”. Christensen said he was a total stud.

    So believe it or not, some Raiders had respect for Seattle players.

    But yeah, the old Howie Long wouldnt say anything good about Seattle lol!

  128. DanielleMND–Excellent points!

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