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Morning Links: Harvin drama reaches its next act

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Jan. 2, 2014 at 2:03 am with 141 Comments »
January 2, 2014 2:03 am

Good morning.

We’re back at it today with Seahawks practice this afternoon.

Someone you may have heard of, Percy Harvin, is expected at practice (at least, as of Monday) today for the first time in more than six weeks. Our Dave Boling with his thoughts on the Harvin melodrama that has played out this season:

Here’s what happens when rabid fans and inquisitive media get only vague updates: They get suspicious. They smell conspiracies. They fabricate scenarios.

Harvin was being intentionally kept under wraps until the playoffs. He would come back belatedly only because his contract makes that specifically beneficial. He’s a diva who is counting his signing bonus rather than working to earn it.

Rarely has there been so much speculation over a player with one catch and one kickoff return. Bottom line, the team won 13 games and earned the NFC’s top seed without him.

But there are huge expenses and opportunity costs to consider.

Harvin’s $12 million signing bonus is more than the combined 2013 base salaries for five of their Pro Bowl selections (Russell Wilson, Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor and Max Unger). And the Seahawks gave up a first- and seventh-round pick this spring and a third-rounder in the next draft for him.

Mostly, though, Harvin’s circumstances are compelling because of the possibilities he represents.

We’ll see if Harvin is at then makes it through practice today.

I wrote about Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas being candidates for the AP Defensive Player of the Year Award. Whenever teammates play at such a high level, it can be a detriment to their chances for an individual postseason award. Plus, it’s rare for a defensive back to win the award. Only 10 have since its inception in 1971.

From J.J. Watt to Robert Mathis, Robert Quinn and Luke Kuechly, there is plenty of competition for Sherman and Thomas.

Do you think Marshawn Lynch will actually retire this offseason?

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> Michael Bennett says his gyrating, PG-13 sack dance comes from this guy.

> ESPN writes that saying every week is a “championship week” enables the Seahawks to play no different now that the playoffs are here.

> Seahawks and Sounders license plates go on sale today with the money going to a non-profit.

> writes about Byron Maxwell’s impact.

> Bill O’Brien will take over the Texans and Lovie Smith has reportedly been hired in Tampa Bay.

> PFT says the hiring of Lovie Smith could lead to Darrelle Revis being cut.

> Here’s an overview of the playoffs from Peter King, who was named National Sportswriter of the Year for the third time and second consecutive year Wednesday.

Leave a comment Comments → 141
  1. CDHawkFan says:

    The way that this year is shaping up, if (big IF) we win the SB, I will truly believe that JS sold his soul to the devil.

    To pull a Harvin out of the hat when you most need him, in front of San Fran that could have signed him.

    Its a big IF because the Cards game is fresh in my memory. An O that couldn’t do anything for 4 Q’ers and a D that couldn’t make a stop at the end of the game for the win. Harvin can and will change both of those situations as I believe he brings 7 – 10 point (directly/indirectly) to a game (extending a drive with a great catch or run that no one else on the roster would have done, longer kick off returns that allow a FG attempt at the end of the drive vs a punt, opponents having to spend time preparing for him, double coverage during a game allowing someone else to get open/get more yards, etc.

    Probably undefeated this year with a healthy Harvin. (note the use of probably, not certainly).

  2. imashiah says:


    Seahawk Lack of Execution – Culprits on Offense

    Game Identifier: Dec 29, 2013, STL @ SEA – 1ST HALF

    QB3 culprit
    1st qtr
    2nd & 8
    TE82 open downfield. Settled for underneath throw to TE86
    3 yd gain
    Play Potential: 20+

    3rd &5
    Overthrew WR89 in left flat
    Play Potential: 5+

    3rd &8
    Broke out of pocket too early on a 3 man rush. Defense in 2 deep zone. Could have kepy eyes downfield and hit TE86 between the LB & S
    7 yd loss (sack)
    Play Potential: 15+

    2nd qtr
    1st & 10
    Lack of pocket-presence. Ran into a sack. Had TE86 breaking open
    4 yd loss (sack)
    Play Potential: 15+
    Overthrew WR81 one on one on outside. Better read was TE86 who was 1 on 1 w/a safety; TE86 had clear favorable leverage at snap
    Play Potential: 20+

    QB3 & LT76 culprit
    2nd qtr
    2nd & 6 (goal)
    QB could have stepped forward a bit to hit TE86 breaking free in end-zone. LT gave up a sack.
    4 yd loss (sack)
    Play Potential: TD

    C60 culprit
    2nd qtr
    1st & 10
    No push on run left.
    1 yd gain
    Play Potential: 4+

    2nd qtr
    1st & 7 (goal)
    QB pressure. WR89 open on end-zone curl-route
    Play Potential: TD

    LG67 culprit
    1st qtr
    1st & 10
    No push on run left
    1 yd loss
    Play Potential: 4+

    2nd qtr
    2nd & 2
    Got pushed back too much
    2 yd loss
    Play Potential: 3+

    LG77 culprit
    2nd qtr
    1st & 10
    No push or hold of block at all
    2 yd gain
    Play Potential: 10+

    LT76 culprit
    2nd qtr
    1st & 10
    Let DE94 get inside leverage.
    1 yd gain
    Play Potential: 4+

    1st qtr
    2nd & 8
    Gave up QB pressure. Had LB in space
    Play Potential: undetermined

    RT68 culprit
    2nd qtr
    1st & 10
    DE91 easy move inside pressure in face of QB
    9 yd gain
    Play Potential: undetermined

    RB24 culprit
    1st qtr
    1st & 11
    Did not wait to set upblock by TE86 on LB. Instead darted left and missed the lane on the right A-gap
    1 yd loss
    Play Potential: 10+

    TE82 culprit
    2nd qtr
    2nd & 8
    Dropped pass.
    Play Potential: 20+

    WR89 & WR19 culprit
    1st qtr
    3rd &12
    Could not sustain block on CB on a WR screen
    6 yd gain
    Play Potential: 10+

  3. GeorgiaHawk says:

    It may work to the Seahawks favor if neither Thomas or Sherman wins Defensive MVP.
    It would most likely keep that chip on their shoulders and make it grow larger through the Super Bowl.

    Todd, or anyone here, what’s the coldest weather that Kaep has played in?

    Kaepernick says-
    – “I don’t think my dream was to play in freezing weather.”

  4. pabuwal says:

    The wind chill might get as low as -20 for SF. If they can still win that game, there are going to be scary for anyone they face.

    Hopefully Wilson settling down and reading the defense correctly and throwing accurately in the second half of the Rams game is a sign of things to come. He is my biggest concern going into the playoffs.

  5. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Found it.

    In college, Kaepernick played in 20-degree weather games,(in Reno) and even windy matchups during his time at the University of Nevada.

  6. HawkFromDay1 says:

    Is Dom Capers still the D Coordinator in Green Bay?


    Niners win.

    Unless that dude learned his lesson Kaepernick will run all over them… again.

  7. GeorgiaHawk says:

    My biggest concern is the other Willson.
    Wilson can’t afford to lose anymore weapons.

    Just look how much better Kaepernick is with all his weapons back, and the addition of Boldin.

    Imagine what Wilson would be doing with a healthy Rice and Harvin to go along with Tate and Baldwin.

  8. yakimahawk says:

    From Pabs…
    Hopefully Wilson settling down and reading the defense correctly and throwing accurately in the second half of the Rams game is a sign of things to come. He is my biggest concern going into the playoffs

    I respect your opinion but disagree with it. From Pete Carroll, Mike Rob and others one of Wilson’s many strengths is reading defenses and understanding the game. Is he Manning, Brady or Rogers? Not yet but neither were they until year four or five. For being in his second year he is light years beyond thoses QB’s at this point. Rogers and Brady were not even on the field yet. I feel very, very comfortable in Wilsons decision making for this team right now. I would be more comcerned with our offensive line being able to control the trenches than I would Wilson’s ability to make correct decisions. IMHO…

  9. yakimahawk says:

    And since I am on my soap box and do not want to get off it yet…All of you who are feeling that Wilson/Seahawks can’t throw the ball read this, we have the 2nd fewest attempts in the NFL but are 2nd in the league in yards per attempt. In the business world we call this extreme efficient performance. And RW does not have the weapons. His #1 option has played 16 plays this year and #2 Rice is out w ACL. And he has numbers like this! And an O-line that has had 10 starting combinations this year. No he is not perfect but neither is Brady, Rogers, Brees or any other QB…I will take these numbers all day!

  10. pabuwal says:

    He’s struggled since the Saints game. But it only takes one good half to turn it around and that might have been the second half of the Rams game.

  11. GeorgiaHawk says:

    yakimahawk- What’s wrong with you man!
    Bringing logic and common sense into a Wilson discussion here? How dare you!


  12. chuck_easton says:


    Harvin can’t even be considered as Wilson’s #1 option. The guy has only been on 19 plays as a Seahawk.

    Wilson’s #1 option is Tate. Rice was 1A until the injury. Baldwin is his #2 option.

    I’m all for defending Wilson but you can’t include Harvin in any discussion until he’s on the field for a few consecutive games and we see how many looks he gets compared to Tate and Baldwin.

  13. yankinta says:


    I am predicting Chiefs, Eagles, Bengals and 49ers.

    Although I’m rooting for Chiefs, Saints, Bengals and Green Bay to win this weekend….

  14. pabuwal says:

    Looks like I am telling my bookie to go with Colts, Saints, Chargers and Packers.

  15. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Arizona was the only poor game that Wilson had in Dec imo.

    Sure he had some bad plays in other games,( all QBs do) however his over all play in Dec was pretty good considering he had lousy play from his O-line, and a banged up WR group going against some of the best defenses in the NFL.

    For the month of December Wilson had-

    7 TDs to 3 Ints.

    61.4 percent completion percentage.

    92.8 QB rating.

    3 wins to 2 losses

    And a 4th quarter game winning drive in both of the loses,(to take the lead) that the Defense failed to protect.

    Against the-

    #15 Defenses in the NFL.

    Oh, and he had a few yards rushing too.

    Wilson is the last player I am concerned about heading into the playoffs.
    Especially after what we saw him do, (as a rookie last year in the playoffs) to the Redskins and Cardinals.

  16. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “Falcons” Lol

    He did a lot of damage to the cardinals too last season but it wasn’t in the playoffs.

  17. Rice was good for 2 catches on third down per game, total production. While he was a polished route runner, he was slow and not physical. Despite not catching a pass last week, and only one the week before, Baldwin is either our #1 or #1A option, alongside Tate, and his performance since Rice went down shows he should have been targeted as such BEFORE Rice’s injury. Even Kearse–outside his one bad game with 2-3 drops–has outperformed Rice. Lockette and Walters arent ready for primetime.

    Rice this year was a pale shadow of Rice last year, let alone Rice in his one fine year with Farve, the one that earned him his ridiculous contract.

    While every player on offense and the coaches share blame for the offenses struggles this year–especially since the NO game–RW is the key. He’s pressing, and overthinking all too often. Yes, the line is atrocious, but even when they do block, RW is making poor decision, missing open WR’s, and holding the ball too long.

    Besides which, while RW is outplaying the line, I believe its easier and more likely to fix what ails RW than to fix the line. I dont believe Sweezy, Giac, or McHasbeen/FatCarp can get much better. They suck. Cable isnt suddenly going to transform a sows ear into a silk purse. But RW is a silk purse talent having a couple sows ear games due to mistakes and poor coaching, not an overall lack of ability.

    Wilson’s issues can be fixed by the qb coach and Bevell and Carrol. They need to stop pushing him to press the ball downfield all the damned time–take what the D gives you; only press it deep when its third down and no one is open. Then you might as well go for broke. But on second and 8, if the WR’s are looking covered on the third step of a 5-step drop, and you see two safeties deep, if the checkdown guy flashes open you DAMNED well better hit him, instead of waiting till a full second after the five step drop to finally try to force the ball to a now-well-covered checkdown guy. And if all you need is 4 yards a play to get 10 for a first down, take the running lane that opens if its there!

    Had we dont more of those things vs the Cards and Niners, instead of trying to get 20 yards on every pass attempt, we’d have won those damned games.

  18. Jusjamn says:

    Kaep played at UNR and grew up in Wisconsin. Cold weather is not new to him. Just because he didn’t envision playing this game in the cold doesn’t mean he will suck because it’s cold. It means he may run more which will be bad for GB.

    I sleep well knowing that we can crush SF or NO. Now Car and Phil are the 2 who could present issues and I would much prefer a recent known opponent!

    Enjoy the ride and GO HAWKS!

  19. yakimahawk says:

    I see your point but that is like saying Crabtree can’t be considered a KC option because he started the year on IR…My point being Harvin was brought in to be #1 and since he was injured Rice started at #1. Now Tate is #1. Wilson just does not have that many weapons so we shall see what happens if Harvin plays. My gut feel it opens up a lot of the field for Tate, the TE’s and Beast. Must sign off and make some money for the family. All the best to everyone in 2014! God Bless and GO HAWKS!

  20. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Remember our special teams failed us in those two losses too.

  21. Georgia–I wouldnt say RW played well vs the Giants, Cards, or Rams. He failed to convert many times when handed the ball with great field position, and threw picks in key spots when attempting a comeback. So basically, he played one good game this month, vs NO. Which now appears to be mostly the fault of NO for using exactly what the SEahawks expected them to and not adjusting.

    Again, your using stats with no context whatsoever.

  22. In fact, once again his TD pass to Tate vs the Rams was a terrible throw, late and underthrown, and the credit should go equally to Tate for adjusting and the cb–Jenkins I believe–for crappy technique and poor coverage, not to mention failure to adjust and make the tackle. Even Charlie Whitehurst would have completed that pass.

  23. But you are right, Special Teams were more like Special Bus in those games. Lets hope they have it fixed.

    For the record, I think RW will get it together. I think he’s been the victim of over-coaching and will settle down and just play. I surely hope so. The kid is money when they let him go.

  24. Jusjamn says:

    RW will be fine and will get more playoff experience here. His lack of weapons is showing though. Here’s hoping that Percy can play!

  25. I never really saw the great pull to Harvin to begin with. To what I can see, he is a slightly, and I mean very slightly, quicker version of Golden Tate. The primary difference being that Tate doesn’t shy away from contact, isn’t fragile (physically or mentally) and runs better with the ball in his hands after catches.

  26. Jusjamn says:

    I would love to have another Tate on the field. Beats the heck out of Rocket and Kearse. They’re just not ready for prime time yet IMO.

  27. boycie99 says:

    Don’t get me wrong if Harvin contributes and we go to the big dance and win it all will be forgiven but I still cant get away from the fact, the talk from within the Hawks was he was going to be IR’d then all of a sudden once Home field through the playoffs was secured he is out on a throw and catch session with Wilson and from all reports was phenomenal.
    You don’t go from cant possibly practice im in too much pain to sprinting and cutting catching everything that’s thrown at you overnight.

    Its either the plan all along from Pete, a screen to keep whoever we play next off guard and having to to game plan or Harvin doing what Harvin does best and putting himself first.

    Im hoping it was Petes plan all along

  28. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- First I did say that Wilson had a bad game against the Cardinals.

    Second I did use context with stats.
    I pointed out that with the game on the line Wilson came through with game winning drives in the 4th qtr against the 49ers and Cardinals.
    That there is far more important than stats no matter what his stats were before that.

    I also pointed out that Wilson played against the #4,#5,#6,#8 and #15 defenses in the NFL. That helps explain why Wilsons stats aren’t as good compared to some of his other games. That is putting it into context.

    I also pointed out that he is playing with a banged up WR group which helps put stats into context.

    Really all you are doing is focusing on some of his poor throws and/or decisions to make your argument instead of looking at the whole picture.
    So really it is your analysis that is lacking context.

  29. Jusjamn says:

    As a person who has twin 25 yr olds, I can tell you they’re a different breed. Not necessarily in a bad way though. Percy got paid. Now he realizes that his body is his tool to keep getting paid. No sense of urgency to get back since Hawks had this thing sewn up several weeks ago. Let’s see what the kid can do this next game and stay positive. Hopefully this will be a great run!

  30. thursday says:

    Lol this anti-harvin rhetoric is getting hilarious. Like Yakima said he was brought in to be number one. I don’t see whiner fans calling crabtree a bum and not expecting kap to target him. And seriously slightly faster than tate and shies from contact? Go watch some film brah.

  31. yankinta says:

    Just finally getting around to looking that Pro Bowl Picks and comments…. :)

    it’s surprising to me that I don’t see people complaining about Luck and CK not getting picked for Pro Bowl. And no complaints about RW getting picked. I guess the entire nation has finally been healed from being Brainwashed by JAWs and other dumb idiots….. lol

  32. imashiah says:

    STTBM, is it not hard to really know if the TD underthrow to Tate against the Rams was a lack of execution, meaning it could have been a designed underthrow?

  33. I haven’t seen anything about fines on the Rams for their dirty play against Seattle. ls the NFL ignoring that?

  34. Georgia–RW put up 10 points vs AZ. He inherited the ball deep in AZ territory–once at the 2 yard line, and put up zero points. Yes, they are a good D, but excusing such poor performance every time we play a tough D is ridiculous. Do you think we’ll be facing lesser D’s in the playoffs and SB?

    His stats overall are very good. Yet his play was inconsistent, and IMO watching his overall play, and his very fixable mistakes, his play was actually far worse than his stats alone would have you believe.

    IMO, far too many of his passes–even completed ones, such as the TD to Tate last week–were off target. He hasnt seemed himself since that magic game where the O could do no wrong vs NO.

    RW did not have game winning drives vs the Niners and Cards. He put together scoring drives in the fourth quarter, in both cases leaving the ball to the other teams offense with plenty of time to score. And youre right, in both cases the D finally let down and lost the game for them. But saying its all the D’s fault is silly. You could say the D kept giving the ball back to the O with plenty of time left to score and win, yet the O kept failing. Its all in how you look at it. Putting 10 points on the board is not enough to win vs anyone. Neither is putting up 16 or 17 points vs the Niners usually good enough to win.

    Our defense has been stellar for more than a month, and has vastly outplayed our offense. The D is not the problem, though it would be nice to see them stop giving up game winning TD’s to crappy qb’s like Krapernick and Palmer.

    Elite qb’s dont fold much of the time they play top-10 defenses. RW has done that. He’s not elite yet. He has had elite games, and very poor ones, and everything in between, but overall he’s not elite. Elite qb’s play elite vs great Defenses, not just vs bad or avg ones.

    I think its a matter of pressing, and the coaches and RW having too much faith and patience. They seemed to think they had 10 quarters of play and that they couldnt win with short passes vs AZ. They HAD to keep trying for the chunk plays that never came, when the short stuff was there. Thats a big part of why we lost vs the Niners and Cards, and why we struggled to put away the Giants and Rams. And its utterly fixable.

    If Bevell and company quit being so damned single-minded about what pass schemes to use, and adjust in games, yet dont forget to keep pounding Lynch, and the line steps up some, this team will be unbeatable. As I said, I fully expect Bevell and RW to fix the problems before the next game. They are gonna have to, unless they want this season to go into the record books as an epic choke.

  35. A healthy Percy doesn’t deserve to get paid as much as all those guys. That’s crazy. We better not lose any of those more important guys at his expense. I’m sure we will and there’s nothing I can do about it but still…

  36. imashiah–Perhaps you have a point. But especially in the first Rams game, Tate had beaten Jenkins and the throw should have been an over-the-shoulder one dropped in his bread basket in full stride, not a late rainbow that left Tate to play both offense and defense, and out-jump and out-muscle his guy for the ball. Both throws allowed an opportunity for the beaten Jenkins to make up for his being beaten and have a shot at the ball, he just blew it.

    But that would only reinforce my point that RW is not elite. An elite qb–Brady, Rogers, Manning, Brees, even some others like Cutler and Rivers and Foles etc would have hit that throw sooner, and dropped it in stride in Tate’s bread basket. If Seattle is intentionally calling for RW to throw a jump ball underthrow, to me thats a sign of a lack of faith and trust that RW has the accuracy to drop that ball in the right spot with his WR in full stride.

    Since when has RW hit a WR on a deep pass in full stride without making him slow and/or outjump/outmuscle the defender? And its not just because the WR’s arent getting seperation, because even when they do, RW misses the mark all too often.

    Right now, imo, RW is a player on the cusp of greatness who has taken a step back. He is a fine game-manager, and the best in the NFL at eluding the pass rush. He’s also capable of being a top running qb, though he has been coached to avoid it whenever possible which I feel is a mistake. But he is not even close in accuracy on deeper throws to the truly elite qb’s like Rogers, Brady, Manning, Brees, etc. If/When he gets that taken care of, and can hit a back-shoulder fade route or Go-Route WR in full stride, THEN he will be elite. I hope he gets there this year, too. If he does, we’re gonna roll!

  37. pabuwal says:

    The Cardinals don’t have a good pass defense – take a look at what Ryan Fitzpatrick and Colin Kaepernick did to them sandwiched around the Seahawks game.

  38. GJGriz–Dont hold your breath. Just as AZ was allowed that crap vs Hass for years, and the Niners are allowed, so are the Rams allowed to be punks pre and post-whistle.

  39. Actually the refs didn’t allow the Rams to be punks. They threw plenty of flags. I’m not used to seeing someone else penalized more than us like that.

  40. Plus AZ lost their FS so we were playing a depleted secondary, too.

  41. Bobbyk–They threw flags, but they also kept them in their pockets all too often. The crap they were pulling on Tate should have resulted in at least 3 personal fouls that werent called, IMO. They also seemed to have one standard for the Rams and a higher one for Seattle.

    I blame this as much on Triplette and his crews general and usual utter incompetence as I do on the Hawks physical reputation backlash. Its more an incompetence thing than a conspiracy.

    The refs threw flags when the Rams whined or ignored the refs orders, but otherwise often allowed them to get away with murder.

  42. yankinta says:

    Wow,,, I watched this game and could not agree more!!! I hope Jags get him….

  43. Southendzone says:

    I agree that the TD to Tate in last game was designed to work that way. It truly seems that is were Tate is at his best, not being wide open, but having a great ability to win a fight for the ball when covered close.

    Since it looked exactly like the TD back in STL, I think they knew that was something they could exploit against that particular DB and they used it when they had the right matchup.

    However STT, your points are still well taken that RW isn’t always sharp on his deep throws, but I expect him to be money in the playoffs.

    RW is so good they are renaming the Jack Russell terrier the Russell Wilson terrier in his honor.

  44. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- Take a step or two back from the trees and look at the forest.

    You’re getting meticulous ridicules.

    You appear to take Wilsons best game and expect him to perform in every other game the same, and if he doesn’t you get all upset.

    If you don’t think top defenses effect the performance of an offense then I don’t know if I can help you.

    Look at the game Brees had against our top D as an example.

    Or you can look at the effects of top Ds on RBs instead of QBs.
    Is it no coincidence that Lynch’s numbers have fallen in Dec, ( like Wilsons has) and yet I don’t hear anyone saying it is mostly Lynch’s fault, or he is not an elite RB because he hasn’t run for a hundred yard in a while.

    And as far as us playing against poor defenses in the playoffs and Super Bowl. There’s a great chance we play a poor defense in the Super Bowl.
    Cincinnati is the only top defense in the AFC.
    Green Bay and Philadelphia have poor defenses too. But it isn’t going to matter who we play imo.

  45. HawkyHann says:

    So funny to read people don’t get the hype surrounding Percy. Really–go to YouTube and just type in his name and then tell us what you see. Our front office is very smart and went all in on him for a reason. Just chill out, be hopeful he plays, and watch the outcome. He makes redunk money for a reason and it’s because he’s a game changer. Ball so hard.

  46. raymaines says:

    Last week on 710 Dave Wyman said you simply can’t understand PH’s speed until you see it live. I’m no judge of anything football related, but I was at the Minnesota game and came away thinking PH really is a whole gear faster the other guys.

  47. That “under thrown” pass to Tate was/is actually a great pass. The defender was well ahead of Tate, RW recognized that and threw it to where Tate could go get it. RW has done this in the past and continues to do it. You can say all you want that RW is under throwing these, but i think they practice this and he is throwing it exactly where he wants to. Not to mention they got 6 out of it. I say stop complaining.

  48. The NFL playoffs now a days is all about what team is playing better ON THAT DAY and has little to do with how a team performed earlier in the year. The number 1 seed in the NFC has been a graveyard since 2007 after having been pretty dominant from 1990 to 2006. The number 1 seed in the AFC has guaranteed nothing since 1990.

    The 49ers and Panthers are two teams that will shut down the Seahawks running game but will give up a ton of passing yards if Wilson is ready to take advantage of it. If the passing game functions like it did at SF, at NYG, vs Arizona and the first half of the Rams game, then the game will become a low scoring defensive struggle.

    Those games are basically 50/50 and will come down to which team makes the plays in the final few minutes or which team gets the beneficial calls. No one wants to see this season come down to that. The Seahawks have done poorly in games like this against teams with winning records this year.

  49. chuck_easton says:


    You can’t compare Harvin’s time on PUP and being unable to go with Crabtree’s.

    When healthy last year Crabtree was CK’s #1 target. When he came back from injury he immediately re-established himself as the #1 in SF.

    Harvin has never been #1 anything in Seattle. He may have been brought in to be the #1 but he isn’t now and hasn’t been all season.

    So, as I said, until Harvin actually plays a couple of games and we see how he is used, you can’t say that Wilson has been without his #1 receiver Harvin. You can’t miss something you never had.

    STTBM, I say Rice was #1a because while here he was on the field for virtually every offensive snap. He started and played all 16 games last season. He was the automatic starter this year until the injury.

    The team considered Rice their starting WR. So he was #1a along with the other starter Tate. Baldwin was supposed to be fighting for his roster life with Harvin. It’s good for Baldwin that Harvin wasn’t around. Baldwin used the opportunity provided to cement his place on the team.

  50. “But that would only reinforce my point that RW is not elite. An elite qb–Brady, Rogers, Manning, Brees, even some others like Cutler and Rivers and Foles etc would have hit that throw sooner, and dropped it in stride in Tate’s bread basket”

    I know it’s in the context of the back-and-forth of making an argument – but to me that RW backlash here is getting a little overstated. the first 4 QB’s you mention above are the gold standard, and I agree that RW is not in their league yet, but the other guys? No way in the world would I take Cutler, Rivers or Foles over Wilson, not for a career, but also not even to lead our team into the first game of this year’s playoffs.

    I’d also argue that he played a very solid game against the Rams. give him the long TD to Willson that should’ve stood, and very solid becomes great.

  51. Georgia–Lynch’s numbers have dropped due to a number of things, none of which have much to do with him. The biggest reason is the line is not consistently doing their job. The ZBS is designed to flow several guys to one area, so despite playing against great Defenses, if run properly its supposed to work; ie, you end up SOMEWHERE with two guys blocking one, and a gaping hole for the back to get through. Unfortunately, lately Seattle’s line hasnt opened too many holes, and Lynch has been avg 2/3 of his yards after contact. Thats an insane number, and shows its not a problem with Lynch so much as a problem of teams gearing up to stop him, and our line failing miserably.

    Also, Lynch would easily have run for 120 yards last week, but we pulled him out with plenty of time in the fourth quarter.

    And RW has been unable to take advantage of the 8-10 man fronts in the passing game, despite going up against teams with avg and/or injury-riddled secondaries (Giants=avg, Niners avg to good, Cards/Rams=injured).

    Brees failed miserably vs us in so small part because of the crowd. Also, his coaches didnt respect us, and had a lousy predictable gameplan and failed to adjust. None of those things will happen if they play us again except the crowd noise. Also, Brees has repeatedly played very well vs excellent defenses, while RW has done so at best half the time, or not quite half the time. And thats my point. Truly elite qb’s arent always elite vs elite defenses, but they are often elite vs elite d. RW is often not elite vs elite defenses.

    The fact is, Seattle is 4-3 vs teams with a winning record. That is hardly elite. And RW played at a less than elite level vs the Niners, Cards, Carolina, Indy, and several teams with sub-elite defenses. Yes, we beat Carolina but that was mostly due to the defense.

    Like I said, I guess we just read the tea leaves differently. Im still waiting for RW to take that next step. I hope he takes it over the two weeks between the Rams and the playoff game, but who knows?

    There is a good chance we play the Niners or Carolina, both of whom have great defenses. And the Broncos defense–even minus Von Miller–can still ball. They have fantastic coaches who have proven the ability to turn avg players into an above-avg group.

    And if the line doesnt improve by a good bit, and RW stop making the mental mistakes and improve his accuracy–along with Bevell adjusting his passing scheme if its not working–this offense wont scare anyone.

    I still cant get over RW eschewing the 40 acres of green grass in front of him on third and 3 to throw a rocket sideline pass 20 yards downfield that no one could catch, thinking it was first down. Thats inexcusable and I havent seen anything that stupid since Seneca Wallace ran out of bounds 10 behind the LOS rather than throw the ball away. Dude still has a ways to go before I anoint him the second coming of Fran Tarkenton.

  52. TallyHawk says:

    Regardless of his numbers RW has been a little off the last month. He’s missed some throws and has seemed indecisive IMO. I know a lot of people thought he was gun shy after bowman hit him early in the niner game but he held the ball way too long trying to wait for a receiver to open up. He should have thrown it away well before getting hit. I know they don’t want him running a lot to keep him healthy but I wish he would. Offensively they are better with him scrambling, especially in the passing game. If it’s not there take off.

  53. chuck_easton says:

    Wilson is indeed a very good QB. But let’s be real here. He’s still only in his 2nd year. I don’t for one minute think he’s hit his full potential.

    That is what is so good going forward. We have a very good QB right now who is only going to get better.

    He is showing himself to be the frontrunner of the young QB’s with Luck, Foles, and Newton close behind. These four have distanced themselves from the pack (Dalton, CK, Geno Smith, Gabbert, Freeman, Ponder, Tannehill, E.J. Manuel…).

    So what if he’s not ‘elite’ right now when compared to the big four (Payton, Brees, Rodgers, Brady). Those four all are towards the end of their careers. Wilson is at the beginning of his. Let’s wait to see how he measures up (pun intended) to those guys 10 to 15 years from now.

  54. It is common for second year quarterbacks to go through some growing pains as defenses adjust to them and scheme to contain their strengths. It happened to Cam Newton last year. It is probably happening to RW this year. It’s a little like the constant adjustments that hitters and pitchers in baseball have to keep making in order to stay ahead of the competition. Wilson has been pretty good this year overall, but it’s nutty to talk about him in MVP terms this year as was being done constantly after the 11-1 start and the NO blowout. He’s struggled regularly during his second year – and had misfortune in the offense that wasn’t his fault – but still managed to play at a pretty high level. Good signs…and now a new season ahead of him (the playoffs). He’s still learning but he’s on a team with tremendous talent and that means he can learn and still achieve at the same time.

  55. PugetHawk says:

    Percy Harvin is 24 so his future is bright beyond this season, provided he doesn’t suffer a career ending hip injury ala Bo Jackson.

    I believe if Pete had it to do all over again, he would have sat Harvin through the Minnesota game until he was fully healed. The hush-hush mentality since then, has been to save face.

    Four years from know, when Percy is in his prime, this will be water under the bridge…provided we win the Super Bowl this year.

  56. pdway–I wouldnt take those other guys either. Nor would I trade Wilson for Rogers or any other qb for this team. What I meant was on throws of that type, all too often RW’s are off-target, while the other qb’s I mentioned excel at those types of throws.

    And while at the time I felt the TD pass to Willson should have stood, it was a pretty bad overthrow when Willson was wide open–there was no need to stretch him out like that. RW just got buck fever, as he has so many times this season. Elite qb’s make that throw with ease, not by the skin of their teeth. RW makes that stuff look hard.

    Look, the only reason I even brought this stuff up is because of all the RW-slobbering thats been going on. At least the silly MVP talk has died a much-deserved death. Yes, RW gets held to a high standard, possibly an unfair one. I dont think he’s playing at the level Manning was at the end of his second year, for instance. But again, at no point have I said RW is anything less than a very good qb with a nearly unlimited ceiling.

    For me, this argument is mostly an exercise in analysis and a way of letting off tension (and fear). There’s so much riding on this season, and Im afraid if we dont capitalize now, the team will gutted by FA after the season. 40 years of futility are on the line here, 30 of which I have faithfully watched, living–and mostly dying–with team after team of loveable losers. There’s no one that wants this more than I do. Just win this one damned SB, and I can let go and enjoy Seahawk football as something fun, rather than an all-consuming passion.

  57. Same old, same old.

    STTBM – Doesn’t think RW is elite.
    Georgia – Does

    It’s a matter of opinion on both sides and always will be.

    Here’s what we do know:

    1. RW is the QB for the #1 seed in the NFC that includes best record.
    2. RW has more wins than anyone in his first 2 years.
    3. RW has more passing TDs in his first 2 years not named Manning or Marino.
    4. RW does not have the best WR corp.

    I read here last week that Tate was in line to get paid $10M per year. In looking at his stats for this year, from a team historical perspective, it was a very average season regarding receptions, yardage and TDs.

    IMO, the elites are Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers in that order. RW is in the next group, but could get there IF he gets some elite WRs.

    Brady had Moss, Welker and Gronk. Brees has had Graham and Colston before. Rodgers has Nelson, Jones, Driver and Cobb is coming up. Manning has had Harrison and Wayne in Indy…Welker, Thomas, Decker and Thomas this year.

    Give RW some of those targets and you might see his numbers, accuracy and such improve because those WRs know how to get open more often and more consistently than the guys on our roster.

    RW’s senior season @ Wisconsin produced something like 38 tds and only 4 picks plus an incredibly ridiculous passer rating. Granted, it was college, but the potential is there.

    I agree he’s not there yet, but at the end of the day…

    Can’t we just talk about something else other than who is MVP, who is elite and how Percy is overpaid?


  58. I think those deep under-thrown passes are by design. In single coverage, the corner doesn’t want to let the receiver get behind him. So, Tate’s ability to stop on a dime and adjust to the short ball makes that pass safe to throw and nearly impossible to defend.

  59. chuck_easton says:


    Ok, you’ve pretty much limited much of this week’s conversations.

    So, if I’m making ‘homemade’ pumpkin pie is it OK to use the canned pumpkin filling and still call it ‘homemaid’? Or do I have to go through the process of rending down the pumpkin, adding the correct spices, sugars and such?

    There, nothing to do with Wilson or Harvin. Nothing to do with football either, but we can’t have everything, now can we?

  60. Whenever you’re in search of the truth, I think it’s important to know there’s usually a happy median. When pabs and I would go round and round a number of years ago about Hasselbeck, I probably thought too highly of Matt but I think pabs thought too lowly of him individually. The truth was probably somewhere in the middle.

    With that being said, I don’t think Wilson is as good as a few people do but I don’t think he’s as “bad” as a few people do either. The truth, usually, is somewhere in the middle and while people gripe about it – I’m just to sit back and be thankful for Russell Wilson, even if he isn’t the greatest QB in the history of mankind.



  61. PugetHawk says:

    Most of the posts have been about Harvin being hurt and not playing or Russell Wilson not being superhuman every game.

    Anyone ever stop to think that the Hawks could have used the 1st round pick traded for Harvin for another bust at lineman like Carpenter.

    I thought his move to Guard was going to work, as long as he remained healthy. But he cannot manage to keep McQuistan off his heals at Guard, so I think my optimism has turned towards admitting he is an official bust.

  62. Here’s my stupid question for the day: Suppose Kaepernick, in his end zone throws a long pass to V.Davis and Sherman comes up with a pick. V.Davis grabs Sherm’s leg and Sherm can’t get away. Does the rule that you can’t have two forward passes on one play keep Sherm from stepping back and throwing the ball to Kam in the end zone? Always wondered why Ive never seen any picked passes re-thrown…

  63. PugetHawk says:

    Bobby, that’s a pretty solid point regarding the view of Wilson. I don’t think anyone here is upset the Hawks drafted him.

  64. Audible et al–You guys might be right that RW threw that ball high and short deliberately. I still think the one in the first game was a mistake on RW’s part, the ball slipped coming out, as often happens when he tries to throw deep.

    joereb–You have the right not to join in discussion that have no interest to you. But if they are Seahawk related, they are fair game. At least its not political or Luck-related, eh?!

    Like I said, the argument is simply an exercise in stress reduction, as we dont have a hell of a lot else to gnaw over till the next playoff game and Im getting nervous as hell. I wish I had Georgia’s faith and hopefullness. While I fully expect a Seattle SB win, Im scared to death of Goodell, Refs, injuries, and in general Seattle finding a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

  65. Those criticizing Wilson’s numbers need to factor in:

    1. Look at the receivers he has to work with this year.
    2. Tate is a threat but can be shut down if the defense can focus on him.
    3. Baldwin is quick, reliable, and clutch…but not a huge threat. He can be neutralized as well.
    4. Rice is out.
    4. Harvin is out.
    5. Kearse is just starting to emerge this year.
    6. Miller has to stay in and block too often.
    7. Willson is a rookie.
    8. The offensive line has been injured or underforming much of the year. They have allowed far too much pressure and have had problems run-blocking for the past 5-6 games.

    Give him more time, a more consistent running game, and a couple of more weapons, and his numbers will be elite.

  66. klm–He could lateral the ball behind him, but not throw it forward.

  67. Audible–Good points.

  68. I’m with Audible – those plays are thrown that way on purpose because that is where Tate really excels (ie among the best in the league). He’s ordinary in many other areas.

  69. TallyHawk says:

    sttbm, do you honestly think you won’t still be obsessed with the hawks if they win it all? I’m assuming most fans,especially those of us longtime sufferers, want nothing more than to celebrate a SB championship. And while I imagine the first won will be oh so sweet, I can’t imagine that I won’t still won’t obsess like I do now about them winning number two. It won’t surprise me if I become more obsessed, if that’s possible.

  70. Soooooo, what time is practice today, and when can we expect a report on Percy – I mean a report on practice?

  71. PugetHawk says:

    Is it just me or is Clemons still not back to his old self after that knee injury last year. Anyone see him getting better or is he pretty much old and breaking down at this point?

  72. chuck_easton says:


    He hasn’t had the production this year that we’ve seen in the past. He’s due $7.5 million next year. The team is right up against the cap ceiling and needs to clear some space so they can sign other players.

    Follow the logical progression and it’s very likely Clem is playing his last few games as a Seahawk in the coming weeks.

  73. STTBM – I wondered what the specific rule was that sez Sherm cant throw it forward? I think the game would be improved if the interceptor could throw forward. Against AZ it might have made a difference in the outcome…

  74. PugetHawk says:

    I agree with you Chuck. With Avril and Bennett’s play this year, I didn’t expect Clem back next year unless he takes a big cut in playing time and salary.
    He’s been on the field enough, but he’s seems to get to the sack/pressure party a little later than the other guys up front.

  75. PugetHawk says:

    Its unfortunate cause he really was one of the first roster moves made, by the new regime, that paid big dividends.

  76. PugetHawk- Not everyone is AP coming back from ACLs or combined ACL/MCLs. C^2 isn’t done, it would be great if SEA could re-sign him for $reasonable, especially if SEA gets the 32nd pick…

  77. PugetHawk says:

    Kim, I would take it a step further…no one is AP coming back from that injury, that fast. I wasn’t dogging Clem and don’t consider his performance this year to be sub-par considering the injury.
    He just seemed to fly under the radar this season. Hopefully he has enough in the tank to come back next year at a reasonable salary.

  78. GeorgiaHawk says:


    How about we discuss Carpenters snap count?

    No really, I enjoy the back and forth debates. It makes me do my home work.
    I think STTBM looks at elite QBs as being more like pure passers, and I can see where several QBs look better in that regard than Wilson.

    I see elite QBs also as play makers, especially clutch play makers, like Elway, Young, Tarkenton, Favre ect… They didn’t always make it look pretty but they were always a threat to take over a game at any given time.

    I would rank the best young playmakers in the game as-


    I think what sets Wilson apart from this group and into elite is his consistency, and accuracy on the run.

  79. I think the rule is something like no forward passes beyond the line of scrimmage – and on ST plays there is no LOS so everything is beyond it

  80. chuck_easton says:

    OK quick comment to both Puget and KLM. Clemons is known by most who have inside information about the team as a ‘very angry man’. He fought hard for that big payday. He’s not going to willingly give it up.

    Clem will be cut and then will go out on the market and find out nobody will pay him what he thinks he should get. By the time he comes to that realization Seattle will have likely moved on and signed Bennett to a new contract.

    I wasn’t a fan of Clem’s hold out to get more money, but he felt he was underpaid and did what he had to do. So now he’s overpaid and he will see the flipside of holding out for top dollar. As long as you produce, great. Once you can’t justify the big paycheck well then don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you.

  81. About picks, is it that the refs and all of football (NFL & NCAA) are sposta treat a pick the same as a punt? I know our DBs have their own tip-drills, but they could also have “get open” drills for when they’re not in tip-vicinity. If Sherm gets a pick and ET or Kam has an open lane to the EZ, there should be at least the practiced option of getting the ball to the SEA player who can make the most damage to the other team(?)

  82. Have you ever been a fan when a worker tries to stick it to “The Man?”

  83. PugetHawk says:

    Well said Chuck. I would also add, he didn’t start getting paid like a started until later into his career. I think his chance for a big payday was limited because of that.
    Your offseason prediction Clemons’s situation is very similar to mine.

  84. 32nd pick…I like the sound of that.

    And, that’s a point worth considering about the Harvin trade…a 1st, 7th, and 3rd (next year)…which are late 1st, late 3rd, and late 7th.

    A 2nd, 4th, and late 7th doesn’t sound as bad. LOL

    That and the fact we can cut him after the SB takes away a little of the concern and disappointment with the trade

    …also, we save a bit in not having to pay out for a 1st rounder this year…they’ll probably end up scoring some more later picks between now and then (Carp trade?), and with their gift for finding late round diamonds, I think we’ll be okay…just wish we could sign a top FA guard.

    Maybe we should try to trade Carpenter for a late round pick to a team with a disciplinarian coach who’ll kick his ass and make him lose weight. I thought we had that in Cable…

  85. Speaking of Cable…I thought he was one of the top OL coaches in the league, so it’s hard to understand why we continue to have so many problems on the line. We drafted a bunch of young talent, grabbed some FAs, and invested in the Carp pick…By now, we should have a solid, if not top O-line…Any theories?

  86. Southendzone says:

    Hey KLM,

    Check this out for the rule specifics you’re looking for

    Basically ONLY the offense can make a forward pass, and they can do so once per down. The intercepting team is not the offense, they can’t do it. The same way a kick returner can’t do it.

    I believe the specific rule you’re looking for is 2.1.d which defines an illegal forward pass to include:

    “A forward pass thrown after there has been a change
    of possession. “

  87. Has C^2’s pass-rush production gone up and down according to how much SEA’s DL has used the 4-3 under? I don’t have snap counts that reference the DL alignment at the snap, but Dukeshire has mentioned that SEA’s D has pretty much gone away from that alignment(?) CC didn’t have as good of stats in PHI as he did when he got here, and, besides snap counts in PHI, I think that was the result of PCs DL alignment(?)

  88. Thanx Southendzone – I knew there was a specific rule somewhere. I guess getting PC on the competition committee and changing it is unlikely, since that rule is pretty much embedded in football from Pop Warner on, but the more dangerous backwards throw is still open. PC might have some kinda embolism if Sherm got a pick and threw it back to the opposing team.

  89. Dukeshire says:

    They still run a under front with some regularity, but Clem isn’t playing the Leo position, he’s been used as more of a traditional end.

  90. Whatz the possibility, if Luke Willson is IR’d of SEA hiring Tony Gonzalez for the remainder of post season, since TG has already said he’s retiring from ATL?

  91. Clemons first 5 games back from injury, he looked fast. Since then, he’s looked markedly slower when pass rushing, especially over the last month to six weeeks. It could be because of injury, it could be a maintenance issue, and it could be both. Perhaps he’s slowed due to an injury issue, and PC and Quinn have responded by not rushing him as often. Or perhaps he’s really lost a step and thats why they arent rushing him as often (IMO).

    It would be cool if someone could come up with stats on how many snaps per game Avril and Clemons have rushed the qb for each game this year.

    Clemons didnt have a sack his first game back, but I remember him getting qb pressures, and doing a really fine job in limited snaps. From his second through fifth games back, he had at least half a sack in EVERY SINGLE GAME. After that, his only sack was vs the Niners. None before or since.

    I coudlnt find stats on his qb pressures per game, but for a couple games into his sack drought I thought he was still providing pressure. Since then, he’s been a virtual ghost.

    I have no idea why, but the drought is worrisome not so much for the stats–ie, no sacks–but because I’ve hardly noticed him getting any pressure at all.

  92. Suzie Kolber just referenced the “Seattle News Tribune”. Is there a new paper in Seattle?

  93. Big Ben won the Big game. He moves around and extends plays. Is he elite?

  94. klm–Gonzalez rights will still be held by ATl for a good while, perhaps even after he files paperwork to retire. He would have the option to un-retire, but ATL would hold his rights.

    And dont quote me on it, but Im pretty sure the NFL has rules that prevent guys from doing what you suggest. Gonzalez, even if ATL would let him go, could not join the team. Thats my understanding. Anyone else provide proof of my idiocy or am I close?

  95. chuck_easton says:


    To answer your question there is ZERO chance of Seattle signing Gonzales. He is a member of the Atlanta team for the 2013 season. The 2013 season does not end until the day after the SB has been played.

    He may have announced his retirement, but that is for 2014. He was a player in 2013.

    Also, the trade deadline has passed so he cannot be traded. He can’t be cut either. Teams that are not in the play offs can’t cut players until after the SB is over.

    All the rules are to stop a ‘nudge, nudge, wink, wink’ scenario where some team out of the playoffs releases a player so that guy can quickly land on the roster of a playoff team.

    The 12 teams in the playoffs can now only sign their own guys currently on their PS, they can sign guys that are on the street, or they can sign guys that are cut from another play off team after that player has cleared waivers. (this is what happened with Cox…he cleared waivers so he was on the street and available for SF to sign him).

  96. Does anyone expect any offensive or defensive playbook wrinkles for the playoffs? They’ve appeared a bit catty with Harvin, perhaps they’ve held things under wraps for the playoffs?

  97. Vegas–They DAMNED well better have plenty of wrinkles in their offense ready to roll. They did so well in the NO game, it appears they sat on their mental laurels and repeated the same stuff ad nauseum for the last month…they only changed up the gameplan in the second half of the Rams game.

    I think it was proven that if Seattle only runs to set up chunk play passing, teams will now shut it down. They HAVE to be adaptable and have multiple ways to attack on O and D, or they will get outcoached and lose.

    I dont, however, expect Seattle to do something crazy like abandon the run and go all empty-backfield, hurry-up offense in the first quarter. But you might see them use the pass to set up the run, by mixing short, intermediate, and deep passes right from the start. Especially if the D’s show up in 8 or more man fronts, or if the line just isnt pass blocking worth a damn (God Forbid!).

    What I want to see is Seattle come out dictating to the D. I want to see them run Lynch, but also use a more variable passing attack than we’ve seen lately (excluding the second and third quarters of the Rams game). I want to see them show some new formations and wrinkles, and I want to see us able to convert via Lynch and the ground game on third and three or less. Every damned time. With Lynch, even an avg line could do it.

    I want Seattle to come out and punch the D in the mouth, instead of cautiously feeling their way on the way to three three-and-outs in the first quarter. I want to see them use slants, curls, posts, and drags to get the ball to Tate and Baldwin and Kearse so their quickness after the catch can gain some serious yards. I want them to score at least 10-13 points in the first half, and hog the ball so the other teams D comes out tired in the second half.

  98. I meant if the line is run blocking worth a damn.

  99. ISNT run blocking. Sheesh.

  100. GeorgiaHawk says:

    You posted this earlier-

    “The fact is, Seattle is 4-3 vs teams with a winning record. That is hardly elite.”

    Here are all the playoff teams records against winning teams.
    *Note I didn’t count teams at 8-8 as winning records.

    *Notice Cincinnati and San Diego’s record.

    Seattle 4-3
    Denver 4-3
    Carolina 3-3
    San Francisco 4-4
    New England 4-4
    New Orleans 2-3
    Cincinnati 4-0
    Indianapolis 4-3
    Kansas City 0-5
    Philadelphia 2-3
    San Diego 5-2
    Green Bay 0-3

    Seattle’s Record isn’t any less elite against winning teams as Manning’s Broncos, or Brady’s Patriots, or Brees Saints.

    I think we will do just fine with Wilson as our QB in the playoffs.

    BTW- I don’t know why nate and Yank are so sure KC, (0-5 against winning teams) is going to beat the Colts in Indianapolis. Especially when the Colts have already beaten them bad up in KC.

  101. Georgia–Those are interesting facts. Im glad we wont have to face Cincy in the playoffs! San Diego is weird–they play down to their competition, and in a must-win game, needed a bad call and OT to beat KC’s backups. Crazy!

    Any given Sunday, I suppose. I think Seattle will be ready for whoever they face in the playoffs, and I think they know they better bring their A+ game.

    I feel better about Seattle’s 4-3 vs teams with winning records now.

  102. GeorgiaHawk says:


    Let’s have a dance off. If you win Wilson is not Elite yet. If I win he is.

    Ready. Set. Bust a move-

  103. chuck_easton says:


    I don’t know why you would even ask that question about yank. Do you honestly expect he will pick the Colts in ANYTHING? That would mean there might be a situation where we would have to, GASP, consider that the QB there is competent enough to win a playoff game.

    And, the Colts are favoured. The Colts are being picked by virtually every expert. So just think if the Chiefs win? We can have several more fun days/weeks of back patting and calling out of the ‘so-called-experts’! It will be fun, really.

  104. Holy crap Georgia, thats some funny stuff!

    My buddy from HS dubbed me Homer Simpson, cause he said thats how I danced when I got wasted. Until I was wasted, I usually held up the fridge and handed people beers.

    Nowadays I only dance in the car with my kid. He like John Lee Hooker and Bob Marley. I wont let him listen to modern Country but he likes that crap too….

    I must admit if I had a sack dance, it would be better than Michael Bennetts. His is just sad. Makes me nostalgic for the Sugar Bear Shake…even though Bernard was a jerk.

  105. Here ya go Georgia:

    Im tellin ya, I got Bennett beat!

  106. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Lol STTBM.

    I only have one good move and that’s the 12 oz. chug.

    Chuck, have you noticed lately how quite yank has been?

  107. Well, Georgia, lets just say my wife didnt marry me for my mad dancing skillz!

  108. GeorgiaHawk says:


    Not you STTBM, just correcting my previous post.

  109. So…Big Ben IS elite? Ok.

  110. pabuwal says:

    When I brought up the .500 record the Seahawks had against winning teams a few weeks ago, it was to show that playoff games are basically 50/50 and come down to which teams make the clutch plays on offense and the big stop on defense late in the 4th quarter. Whether or not most other teams have a similar record was irrelevant. Should the Seahawks come up on the wrong end of 50/50 in the playoffs I think most of us will feel like this season was a failure.

    Unfortunately, the Seahawks are 1-3 in such games with both the offense unable to make the clutch play and the defense unable to make the clutch stop. I see this being an issue against teams with defenses ranked in the top 10 who have QBs that have actually led game winning drives (ie Carolina, SF) and not an issue against other teams. Those other teams won’t be able to hold the Seahawks Offense under 20 points.

  111. joereb–I HATE that guy! I cant decide if he was, is, never-was, or ever will be since I detest him so much. I’m far too biased to make a determination.

    Exactly Pabs, thats why the Niners and Carolina are scary. The iggles and Pack…eh, not so much.

  112. chuck_easton says:


    Well, not to get you upset or anything, but the two teams you mention as teams that could give Seattle trouble are very likely the two that Seattle is going to have to beat to get to the SB.

    SF will very likely win in GB. NO will likely lose in Philly.

    So Div round will have SF coming to Seattle and Philly going to Carolina.

    IF Seattle gets by SF I don’t see Philly beating Carolina so Championship round will either be

    Carolina at Seattle
    SF at Carolina (if Seattle can’t beat the Niners).

    If Seattle gets to the SB there is no way the national media will be able to say they are pretenders and had an easy path. Just have to beat two of the four best teams in the NFL (Seattle, SF, Denver, Carolina) to get to the SB and would likely face the 3rd of the four best in Denver at the SB.

  113. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Pabs, I see your concerns. Fortunately we have Carolina and San Francisco at home if we play them. 12th man will be a factor.

    joreb- I see Big Ben as elite.

    ESPNs all NFC West team-

  114. #pass rush snaps-total snaps/sacks,hits,hurries
    wk1 @CAR W12-7
    Chris Clemons (CC) DNP
    Cliff Averil (CA) DNP
    Michael Bennett (MB) 19-32/0,0,3
    Bruce Irvin (BI) DNP
    O’Brien Schofield (OS) 18-36/1,1,1
    Red Bryant (RB) 18-35/0,1,2

    wk2 SF W29-3
    CC DNP
    CA 21-28/1,0,3
    MB 27-42/1,1,4
    BI DNP
    OS 10-17/0,0,1
    RB 16-29/0,0,3

    wk3 JAX W45-17
    CC 15-16/0,1,2
    CA 34-50/0,0,2
    MB 36-50/2,2,2
    BI DNP
    OS 16-29/0,1,1
    RB 10-21/0,0,0

    wk4 @HOU W23-20
    CC 41-61/1,2,4
    CA 37-49/1,1,4
    MB 20-32/0,3,2
    BI DNP
    OS 9-15/0,0,1
    RB 22-48/0,0,3

    wk5 @IND L28-34
    CC 27-45/1,0,4
    CA 23-39/0,2,0
    MB 26-40/0,0,3
    BI 14-37/1,0,2
    OS 1-1/0,1,0
    RB 13-30/0,0,1

    wk6 TEN W20-13
    CC 17-31/1,1,1
    CA 24-31/0,0,2
    MB 21-25/1,0,1
    BI 7-31/0,0,1
    OS 4-6/0,0,0
    RB 10-22/0,0,0

    wk7 @AZ W34-22
    CC 27-31/1,1,2
    CA 28-39/1,0,2
    MB 39-49/1,2,5
    BI 29-55/0,1,2
    OS 10-10/0,1,3
    RB 20-32/1,0,3

    wk8 @STL W14-9
    CC 28-57/0,2,3
    CA 22-40/1,1,1
    MB 19-30/0,0,3
    BI 12-66/1,0,0
    OS DNP
    RB 21-50/0,1,1

    wk9 TB W27-24
    CC 21-48/0,0,3
    CA 16-32/1,0,3
    MB 16-26/1,1,3
    BI 13-53/0,1,1
    OS DNP
    RB 13-41/0,0,0

    wk10 @ATL W33-10
    CC 32-42/0,1,0
    CA 25-33/1,1,2
    MB 36-44/1,1,1
    BI 16-34/0,0,5
    OS 4-9/0,0,0
    RB DNP

    wk11 MIN W41-20
    CC 30-52/0,0,2
    CA 25-45/1,1,2
    MB 28-40/0,1,3
    BI 5-37/0,1,0
    OS DNP
    RB 13-35/0,1,1

    wk13 NO W34-7
    CC 26-41/0,0,1
    CA 22-34/1,0,1
    MB 26-34/0,2,1
    BI 6-27/0,0,2
    OS 7-11/0,0,0
    RB 16-27/0,0,0

    wk14 @SF L17-19
    CC 26-42/1,0,1
    CA 18-31/0,1,1
    MB 23-39/0,0,1
    BI 2-46/0,0,1
    OS DNP
    RB 20-41/0,0,0

    wk15 @NYG W23-0
    CC 27-41/0,0,2
    CA 28-43/1,1,3
    MB 28-37/1,2,3
    BI 9-37/0,0,1
    OS 4-6/0,0,0
    RB 9-17/0,1,0

    wk16 AZ L10-17
    CC 23-39/0,0,1
    CA 21-46/0,1,1
    MB 24-58/0,1,3
    BI 3-54/0,0,0
    OS DNP
    RB 13-39/1,0,1

    wk17 STL W27-9
    CC 28-39/0,0,2
    CA 23-33/0,1,1
    MB 24-33/1,1,1
    BI 6-36/0,0,0
    OS 4-5/0,0,0
    RB 11-21/0,0,0

  115. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Wilson is not in the same category as Rogers, Manning, Brees or Brady. As mentioned above, they are the gold standard but that wasn’t always the case. These guys have had, long successful, Superbowl winning careers and were not the household names they are now. A few of these guys didn’t even play until the third years of their careers. Manning started as the #1 pick as a rookie on a terrible Colts team. Rogers sat behind Favre and didn’t get a chance for several years. Brady sat behind Bledsoe and only got a chance due to injury and earned the rest by winning….a lot. Brees was given up on in SD and wasn’t considered top material until he put up video game numbers with the Saints after a few seasons. If you want to make any comparisons to these “elite” guys, compare the first two seasons with those of Russell Wilson. He is clearly ahead of them in the most important stat, wins and has nearly kept pace with Manning on TDs even though he is on a run first team. He is great for this team and doesn’t need to be elite and really after two seasons, I don’t think you can realistically call anybody elite. He’s a winner, has the poise, leadership, smarts, skill and talent to take us the distance. Labels only restrict what someone is or can be.

  116. pabuwal says:

    This -25 to -40 wind chill the 49ers will have to contend with will hurt their chances quite a bit (I hope).

    The weather in Philly will be around 30 degrees with no wind (which is balmy compared to GB) so that also helps New Orleans quite a bit.

    The weather might have just broken the Seahawks way folks.

  117. Thanks Klm. Good to see that Clemons is still putting some pressure on, but troubling that he hasnt hit the qb since his sack week 14 vs the Whiners, and before that didnt do much for three games or more. Avril hasnt been as effective since kicking butt vs the Giants.

    Lets hope we get some better pass rush in the playoffs!

  118. Excellent points Mo. I believe RW will get there–to elite status–pdq.

  119. Southendzone says:

    Why is the weather going to hurt the 9ers? isn’t the general conception that bad weather hampers a throwing/finesse team and helps a tough defense/running team?

    I think the 9ers are going to demolish Green Bay regardless of the weather. They will be able to run at will against them and Boldin will out-muscle all of their DBs.

  120. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Interesting article.

    Look at the pic of Cam Newton & Russell Wilson. Cam makes Wilson look like a little kid.

  121. GeorgiaHawk says:

    There is no way the 49ers should have got Boldin on the cheap. To me that was orchestrated from brother to brother with no chance for any other team to make a better offer imo.

    I hate the 49ers and hope they get pay back from Green Bay. Go Packers!

  122. Vegas56 says:

    I do think it will be difficult on the 49ers to play at zero degrees, in snow and -25 wind chills. The Packers are more experienced in those conditions and from the games earlier this year in the snow, passing offenses did very well once they got used to the footing, they have the advantage of not having to respond and react. I think it will be a difficult game for both teams, but I suspect the Packers get a bit of an advantage in those conditions.

  123. MoSeahawk12 says:

    My father in law (he’s a dirty 9er fan) was giving me grief about all things Seahawks and it turned to how in the hell did they get Boldin from winning Superbowl brother for a turkey sandwich, ok, sixth round whatever. He said the 9ers didn’t get special treatment as apparently Boldin was offered to the Chiefs first and they would only give up a seventh rounder. Harbaugh called his brother and they generously offered a sixth and made the deal. I’ve never heard or read anything about other teams in the Boldin swap. I call BS, but of course I said I’m rooting for the 9ers to beat GB so we can settle this season in Seattle. He says no problem, we can beat you guys there. I add, Let’s ask Kap if that’s true…….silence.

    Sorry, unnecessary comment, but say some comments about Boldin and reminded me… much I hate the 9ers.

  124. doubledink says:

    Doug Farrar on KJR today:
    Seattle has a 16-0 Defense, a 10-6 Offense, and a 7-9 Oline – in the CFL! lol.

  125. I could care less whether someone says Wilson is elite or not. All I care about is what he does on the field. His numbers will speak for themselves. Obviously # of SB wins will speak the loudest.

  126. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Interesting scouts take on Manziel who also predicted that Wilson would be great.

    I think he is right.

  127. Ive been wrong before, but I think Manziel will get crushed in the pros. He’s not built to take punishment like Wilson and Newton, and if you take that away he’s not special. He also appears immature even considering his age, and if I were a Coach or GM, I would have grave reservations regarding his leadership abilities.

    For the same reasons Wilson is a rare gem–the intangibles, the work ethic, the single-minded pursuit of excellence, the sportsmanship and class and level-headedness–I think Manziel will fail. He lacks those intangibles.

    Even though he’s a privileged douche, he’s exciting to watch, and plenty of folks that were douches in HS and college eventually turn into human beings. So I wish the kid well, and I hope he goes to someone like Chip Kelly who can maximize his talents and minimize his flaws, and not to some fool like Josh “Tebowmaniac” McDaniels.

  128. doubledink–Thats funny! But I think he was being kind with his grade of the O-line!

  129. ChrisHolmes says:

    I’m with you STTBM. I don’t think Manziel makes it as a pro. His mental makeup isn’t there, and unlike Wilson, he’ll take hits. He’s going to be another one of those college guys like Tebow or Vince Young; great college QB, mediocre (at best) pro.

    Bridgewater though… he seems to have the right mental makeup. Seems like a Wilson-type guy.

  130. pabuwal says:

    The Packers-49ers game has a shot to be the coldest NFL game ever. The Ice Bowl game was -13 and -48 wind chill. This won’t beat that wind chill but might get to that temperature.

    Kapernick doesn’t plan on wearing a glove. His coldest game was 20 degrees once while at Nevada. Well Colin, there is a big difference between +20 and -10!

  131. Manziel may have some punk kid in him (most do at his age – he was just in the spolight b/c he won the Heisman) but whenever I see him play, he has “it” unlike almost any college QB that I’ve ever seen.

    He won’t be the face of the franchise guy like Russell Wilson that you can be proud of as a person, but he’s got the “it” factor on the football field. I think he’s a franchise QB. As Seahawk fans, we have no right to say he’s “too small” to get it done in the NFL either.

  132. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- That’s the thing, while the Wilsons, Manning’s, and Brees have to work hard at their craft. The Manziel’s and Favres are natural talents.
    Much like Ken Griffey jr was to baseball.

  133. Georgia–I dont think Wilson, Manning or Brees had to work hard to be good. They work hard to be GREAT. They work hard to be the best they can be. Griffey worked hard to. The thing is, if Manziel doesnt work as hard as them, he’s not going to be as good as them, because regardless of natural born talent, the NFL is not a place you can get by just being a talent–no matter how great–at the qb position.

    Being great requires both ridiculous in-born talent, tremendous skill learned only by years of hard work and study, and a real sharp football mind. Not to mention insane amounts of work.

    Who would ever say Michael Vick or Vince Young or Ryan Leaf or Matt Leinart or even older hotshots like Todd Marinovich and college hot-shots like David Klingler (who could throw a football harder than anyone, once splitting a MLB hand wide open on a pass over the middle–his first throw of college practice) lacked massive God-given talent?!

    Yet every last one of them failed, not because they lacked the goods, but because they didnt have the mental fortitude, the single-minded, obsessive drive to be great.

    Tom Brady reportedly called Obrien his OC in MARCH with ideas on how to change up OTA’s each year. Rogers is every damn bit as competitive. Manning doesnt put the time in because he lacks the physical talent, he does it because he’s utterly consumed with being the best.

    If anyone thinks Manziel or anyone else can come in and be a fool and still win on Sunday, theyre in for a nasty surprise. Thats not to say he’s doomed to failure, just that he isnt going to succeed if he doesnt utterly devote himself to being the best he can be, and I dont see him doing that.

    Todays NFL is even more complex and tough to play qb in than when Favre was starting out. You just cant be a screw-off and make it as a qb in this league. You can be a Rapistberger and still be a great qb, but you cant be a Vince Young or Matt Leinart or Ryan Leaf.

    Not to mention, its not the fact that Manziel is SHORT that has me doubting his ability to make it in the pros, but the fact that he’s SLIGHT. Then again, Krapernick isnt exactly built like a RB either, and so far his speed and rocket arm have kept him healthy. Its more the immaturity and selfishness Manziel displays that has me doubting him. That crap just will not fly with veteran NFL players, let alone coaches. He’s in for a rude welcome if he thinks he’s gonna be King Spit from day one in the NFL.

    I think the NFL needs loosening up, and a short, fast mobile (white) qb who sets stereotypes on their heads is just what the doctor ordered. (And I mention his being white because there ARE serious stereotypes given to white guys, whatever position. The most common is that they arent seen as fast, even when they run 4.4 40’s, and that crap needs to end) Guys with his unique talents should have a chance. But he’s gonna have to learn how to be leader of men before that happens, and I am skeptical.

  134. pabuwal says:

    Liz Mathews 710 ESPN ‏@Liz_Mathews 5m
    Russell Wilson said of WR Percy Harvin: “He’s ready to go, I think.” #Seahawks

  135. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- I have never seen a better QB at the College level as Manziel. And yes there are players that have a more natural advantage over others.
    Griffey was not a good practice player at all. He could just simply show up with his natural talent and still be the best.
    Imagine if he had a work ethic like Wilson or Manning.

    Favre didn’t have a good work ethic either and look how he turned out.

    I think Manziel will surprise a lot of folks at the NFL level.

    Not saying he will be Elite like Wilson but boy he will be fun to watch.

  136. Georgia–I agree, there are players that have so much natural talent they are a cut above from the get-go.

    I hope you and Bobbyk are right, because from what little I saw of Manziel’s play, if he can translate that to NFL success, he will be an electric player to watch.

  137. So if Jason Whitten can go for 12 and 148 last weeknd vs Philly what could Graham do?

  138. montanamike2 says:

    I would expect the same if not better.

  139. Skavage says:

    I’ve decided we need to hand out some annual awards to the Seahawk Insider Bloggers. Call them the TnT SIB awards. Bloggers here get to pick out a fellow blogger and “award” them for something they contribute to the blog. Only positive, fun awards allowed. Keep the hate awards for the 49er fans. (Just kidding! I wouldn’t want to insult any 49er fans trolling our beloved blog.) :)

    Ok, so I’ll start….The first one goes to GeorgiaHawk for Most Links of the Year. Keep ‘em coming!

    Ok who’s next? And what’s their award?

  140. I thought Clemons was the MVP in 2011. I also think he’s gone next year. Too bad.

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