Seahawks Insider

Snap Counts: Week 17 vs. St. Louis

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Dec. 31, 2013 at 12:15 pm with 48 Comments »
December 31, 2013 11:12 am

We see a lot more of Paul McQuistan than James Carpenter, about average (for the Seahawks) fullback usage, lots of Zach Miller and a rise in snaps for Chris Clemons.

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Leave a comment Comments → 48
  1. Interesting that Clemons played so many downs. I wonder how much of his recent lack of pressure on the qb is scheme-related, and how much due to him being a touch slow/gimpy?

    Also, for those bagging on Irvin not having stats the past few games, tackles can be a misleading stat. For instance, for a LB and CB, it often means your guy caught a pass on you. Its better to have no stat because you covered your guy well than to give up a reception and make a tackle.

    Also, as Ive said, his decline seems tied to that nasty low hit he took when rushing the qb weeks ago. It was gnarly. Im pretty sure he’s got at the least a bad bone bruise slowing him down.

    I havent noticed him out of position or overrunning a play, or anything else negative–which was always the case with Aaron Curry.

  2. I also wonder how often teams run right at Irvin. I dont think they do. I think they’ve been going away from him, or at least up the gut far more often. But I might be full of it….

  3. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I haven’t noticed Irvin much at all the last two games.

    Irvin had 35 snaps, 15 or more less than Smith or Wagner.
    Does anyone here know if they are taking him out in obvious passing downs. If so that could help explain why his pass coverage appears to look so good to some.

    Also I would be curious to know at what part or parts of the game Carpenter is getting his snaps.

  4. Georgia–You are right that he may have been taken out on obvious passing downs, especially since I think he’s playing hurt. Have you seen him give up a reception though? The Rams didnt run on every first or second down.

    Irvin is no Aaron Curry. He will be fine.

  5. The part I find more interesting is that Maxwell had 10 more snaps than Sherman

  6. GeorgiaHawk says:

    At least Aaron Curry got lucky now and then and made a few tackles.

    I’m not giving up on Irvin just yet but he better start showing something more going forward to make a believer out of me.

  7. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Sherman was injured when he got sandwiched in the end zone between Thomas and Maxwell.

  8. And missed no snaps caused they kicked the FG on the next down – Right?

  9. xcman–Dont quote me on it, but they may have sat Sherman for the final defensive series or two, I cant remember. But it is interesting that he saw less snaps. Context is everything!

  10. That is true – I didn’t think about end of game scenarios – mainly since we have been short on CB’s lately

  11. Southendzone says:

    Question for Todd or anyone else that might know:

    Where do these snap counts come from? Is Todd watching each play and making hash-marks on a sheet or are these released on some sort of stats website or directly from the Hawks?

  12. ballgame says:

    Interesting to read the comments on Irving. I thought he played really well last week. There were 2 plays that really stand out. One he set the edge on an outside run about a yard in the backfield and forced the running back to cut right into Wagner. The secound was we were in an over front (he was playing C gap on the strong side) saw weakside run and shot the B gap forcing the fullback to peel back and allowing Wagner to make the play in the hole unblocked. Both were big time plays

  13. RDPoulsbo says:

    How were the LBs supposed to make a tackle when the d-line was consistently putting Stacy down at our behind the line?

  14. Dukeshire says:

    The Sam ‘backer comes out in nickel packages for the additional corner. This is why Irvin’s snaps will always be lower than the Mike or Will, unless they decide to move him to the weak side in nickel.

    If we’re judging Irvin on stats alone, the last handful of games have been a flop. But if one focuses on his play, you realize that’s not the case. Teams that do run in his direction are generally stopped by Red before Irvin has the opportunity to make a tackle. And because Red is such a dominant run stopper, teams don’t run in that direction often. In addition, watching Irvin cover TEs and backs out of the backfield also displays how shows how effective he has been at covering up hot routes. In short, he’s playing much better than the numbers indicate. Not that there isn’t room for improvement; there always is.

  15. GeorgiaHawk says:

    RDPoulsbo- Wagner had 12 tackles, Smith had five and an Int. I just want to see Irvin at least have one or two every now and then.

    BTW- Smith, (much like Maxwell) has earned his chance to start, even when Wright gets back imo.

  16. Just as KJ WRights high tackle counts were misleading early in the season–a couple games he gave up 6/6 and 8/8 catches when in coverage–so too are Irvins lack of tackles very misleading. Early on, teams ran at him and tested him in coverage. He responded incredibly well. Since then, he’s had far less opportunities. Also, as others pointed out, the D-line has been swallowing runners.

    Earlier in the season, when the D-line was struggling vs the run, Irvin was getting more tackles due to cleaning up their mess. Now he doesnt have to, but he’s doing his job well.

    Kind of like those games where Seattle used ET as single high safety a lot, and he took away the deep passes, but wasnt making any big plays or many tackles since the qb’s wouldnt throw the ball anywhere near him. Or like Sherman not getting opportunities in the middle of the year because qb’s just wouldnt throw his way.

    Now, Irvin is not in ET or Shermans league yet, but for a guy playing a brand new position in the NFL after a 4-game suspension, I think he’s exceeded expectations. I think from Carrols comments this year, and from Nortons, they are also pleasantly surprised by how well Irvin has played.

    I think once he heals from that low block fully, and gets a little more comfortable, they will begin working on blitzing him more and working on his pass rush skills. That is why we drafted him so high, after all.

  17. Georgia–Seattle has the most enviable problem in football–too many starting quality LB’s. What a great problem to have huh! Ive been hollering for Smith to get more playing time all year, despite Wrights stellar play. But Wrights final 3-4 games before his injury he had become the best LB in the NFL in coverage. No lie, look it up! I couldnt believe it when I read that! He was flat shutting it down!

    I still think Smith’s speed and Wright’s lack of same make Wright a run-down sub and backup MLB, but I hope he can play if needed next game just the same. He’s a really good player.

    I love that he can play MLB well, and that between him and Smith, Seattle can have a fresh LB ready for any team, any situation. Vs running teams we can start Wright, speed and passing teams we can start Smith. Either way, or LB corps is badass!

  18. “… Wagner had 12 tackles, Smith had five and an Int. I just want to see Irvin at least have one or two every now and then.”

    To me that goes into the “who gives a poop” category along with “top 3 QB”, league MVP & coach of the moment awards. I just want the top prize for this team.

    Bruce has been a late bloomer in many phases of life and he is making progress. I’m rooting for him too and glad that he made the switch to LB as many of us were concerned about his future as a full time Leo after last year’s playoff loss to Atlanta. I believe he will be a player to be feared by the end of his rookie deal.

    Interesting games in the NFC this weekend. Though SF has dominated GB of late it’s hard to count out the Pack playing a winter home game. Anyway, I hate them both.

    N.O. we know. Philly I haven’t seen other than for 5 minutes of their win at Dallas.

  19. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I rooting for him too, but if one assist in the last two games is making progress then sign me up to play for the Seahawks. Perhaps I could get an extra bonus if I fail to make a tackle in three straight games. Lol.

    I just hope they don’t put Smith back on the bench when Wright returns.

  20. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “I’m.”

  21. re Irvin…… I think the thought that he hasn’t had any high visibility misses or errors is true, and a good sign.

    But since the bye week he has had weeks with 2, 2, 5, 0 and 0 tackles. So on average, he is making less than 2 tackles per game.

    By comparison, in the last 3 games Malcolm Smith has had weeks with 5, 8 and 5 tackles. Average of 6 tackles per game. The difference is significant.

    Here are the season tackle stats for for each of our LBs

    Wagner (120 tackles) http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14979/bobby-wagner
    Wright (80) http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14140/kj-wright
    Smith (54) http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14214/malcolm-smith
    Irvin (40) http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14946/bruce-irvin

  22. blocis–But tackles is not necessarily a good statistic to use by itself as a measure of performance.

    Again, I believe Irvin is hampered by an injury, but is still playing well. Can he improve? Hell yes. But he’s not playing at bust status, like Carpenter.

  23. MikeFromNewJersey says:

    The Lions have interest in Tom Cable. Pete may be losing all his top guys this offseason. Its amazing what winning does for assistant coaches.

  24. doubledink says:

    Hey all, Happy New Year.
    It is a pleasure having a great blog where, I for one, look forward to the comments section as much as the Blogmaster’s posts.

    A lot of talent and wackiness in one place.
    Thanks for all of your contributions. On to New Jersey! Go Hawks!

  25. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- If Kuechly can get 24 tackles in one game why can’t Irvin get 1 tackle in two games?
    And where did you hear Irvin has an injury? Do you know someone in the training room?

  26. DreadHawks says:

    Anybody have any wishes or wants on who replaces Quinn, Bevell or Cable should they leave? Also Groz reprted today that there are 13,000 tix available to the SF GB game still. Not too confident those Packer fans. Happy New Year Be Safe!

  27. SandpointHawk says:

    Seahawks Insider: Putting the fun back in dysfunctional…

    Happy New Years to one and all…

  28. Todd Dybas says:

    South,

    The snap counts are compiled by the teams, then provided to the league. What you see me post each week is a screen shot of snap counts on the league’s official statistics site.

    Hope that helps.

    – Todd

  29. Georgia–I just think he’s got to be sore still after that nasty low block he took. I agree, he should be making more tackles. But just as Ive seen Mebane and the other lineman have days with few or no tackles yet be totally disruptive badasses, I think Irvin has played far better than you’d think from the stats.

    And I remember Jesse Tuggle or someone from the Falcons playing SS and making over 200 tackles in a year in the late eightes/early nineties. That was because they werent great in coverage, and his team was often getting blown out and his teammates sucked. The guy was a good player, but he wasnt All Pro.

    We do agree Irvin should be making more stats. I just dont think he’s playing badly, nor do I think he’s a bust. We’re reading the tea leaves differently, and I rely less on stats, and more on overall analysis. I also tend to take stats rather skeptically without advanced analysis.

  30. I have no idea who Seattle could/should choose to replace our coordinators. I’d be happy keeping them all-even Cable, so long as we get him some damned linemen who can pass pro AND run block to work with! Of the three coordinators, I’ll be least sad to see Cable go, since he’s done the least with the most opportunity IMO. But he may be harder to replace than Quinn, since Carrol has a lot to do with the overall Defensive scheme.

  31. Georgia–Kuechly is amazing. Irvin is not on his level, nor does he play MLB, which position lends itself to more opportunities to make tackles. Those 24 tackles also mean teams werent afraid to throw the ball in Kuechly’s area. It cuts both ways.

    You wont see an OLB in a 4-3 making that many tackles, nor a FS or SS unless a team is getting blown out.

  32. bulldog80 says:

    Percy will add another dimension if he truly plays. The recent news about him is exciting. No one wants to have to game plan for him AND deal with what we’ve already been dishing out.

    On the coaching interviews, honestly, I’m hoping the Vikes hire Bevell. I just don’t like the way he calls most games. I find myself screaming at the tv more often than not. Quinn is fantastic! I chuckle thinking about the Marshall days. Although our line isn’t always stellar, I think Cable provides more than we know.

  33. GeorgiaHawk says:

    One tackle! That’s all I’m asking for is one measly tackle. Is that asking too much?

    Really, if we continue to be the best D in the business perhaps it’s a good thing Irvin doesn’t tackle.

    Why mess with what’s working?

    Happy New Year everyone.

  34. bird_spit says:

    If you haven’t watched the Eagles, they are the real deal. I’d like to see an all bird NFC Conference Final on our home turf. I do not believe the giggles are capable of beating the hawks, but their scheme and QB are fun to watch. I’m also confident that the Eagles are capable of making it all the way to Seattle for such a game. The Panthers defense is mighty good, so it will be fun to watch what goes down.. The Saint’s Aint…so book that.

  35. bird_spit says:

    Oh..and Happy New year to all of you. Let’s here it for the 2013 Hawk’s and bring on the big game in 2014. Best of Luck to us all.

  36. STTBM….. I have never said that Irvin is awful or a bust.

    What I have said (and continue to say) is that if all of our linebackers were healthy, he would be the Seahawks 4th best linebacker. I would start Wagner, Wright and Smith ahead of Irvin.

  37. Happy New Years guys!

  38. Eagles defense is not that good IMO – Their offense is something that has given us trouble in the past – the up tempo game has given our line problems in the past (last year) but we really haven’t faced it this year.

    as far a Coordinators go – IF Quinn leaves, I would be more than happy to look at Horton, looks like he will be out at Cleveland. I am really not sure how he and Fangio (or whatever his name is in SF) have not gotten more attention as head coach candidates. They have done amazing jobs with their units where ever they have gone.

    I am still curious about all the Quinn attention – he was a DC one year in College and 1 year in the pros. Good for him but it doesn’t seem like he has the experience that most teams would want. although any interest out of Washington doesn’t surprise me. Hey they hired Zorn as an OC and then when nobody wanted the job they made him a head coach. Such for Zorn – I think it has really killed his chances of being a OC or head coach in the future.

  39. blocis–No, Georgia said he was a bust. I would bench Wright. He’s just too slow. Unless we’re playing a team that runs the ball a lot, Wright would be coming off the bench due to Irvins speed, and sub in as needed.

    Of course, Wright was playing at a very high level when he was injured. I guess we’ll just have to trust PC’s decisions on the backers…

  40. SandpointHawk says:

    Quinn was with the Gators for two years as defense coordinator…No biggy just saying…

  41. IMO, Irvin’s best position is still pass rushing DE. Unfortunately, with Avril and Clemons both on the team, Irvin is 3rd best pass rush DE.

    I wouldn’t call Irvin a bust – but I don’t think he has – or ever will – live up to his 1st round draft status.

  42. Oops – yup you are correct – still not sure why he is so popular 3 years isn’t that much compared to other people out there

  43. And STTBM – I’m not a huge KJ Wright fan, but its pretty hard to argue with the production – 80 total tackles, mostly as a OLB (yes, he played MLB for 2 or 3 games when Wagner was injured)

  44. I don’t know what all the complaints are about – I think our LB group has been SPECTACULAR and maybe the best ever in the history of the hawks (from top to bottom) and is among the best in the NFL right now for versatility. I think they can match up with pretty any offense – running or passing and hold their own.

  45. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- I didn’t say Irvin is a bust. I said he would be a bust in two years.
    I’m still holding out some hope.

  46. Funny ya’ll should bring up Irvin. I too was wondering where had our #1 pick from last year gone, so on Monday I replayed the game and strickly focused on him in slo-motion (as well as our O-line on offense) and found this:

    1. When the Lambs ran, they either ran away from Irvin or into Red.
    2. When the Lambs feebly tossed the pigskin, they didn’t challenge Irvin’s receiver (usually the TE or RB/FB who went out).

    Analysis: Lambs O-coordinator didn’t see Irvin as a “weak link” or he would have been trying to torch him.

    Comment: Don’t have any issue with Irvin right now….as one commentor noted, he is just the 3rd best rushing DE and will likely (due to salary cap) get to play LEO in 2014 when we have to cut/release Avril/Clemmons.

    Go Hawks!!!!

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