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Carroll on Harvin: ‘We’ll really get to the bottom of it by the middle of this week’

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Dec. 30, 2013 at 11:09 am with 109 Comments »
December 30, 2013 11:11 am

Pete Carroll was on 710 ESPN this morning. He, again, said Percy Harvin may go to injured reserve, sometime this week.

“We’ll really get to the bottom of it by the middle of this week,” Carroll said. “We’ll have an extraordinary football player ready to go next year.”

And, on Kam Chancellor, “He made the statement that you better look out or he will knock you out.”

Leave a comment Comments → 109
  1. ohiohawkfan says:

    so much for “glass half full”

  2. chuck_easton says:

    Yup, the Rumour to IR and with the hope that the Rumour can actually play in 2014. Still no guarantee of that. If the hip isn’t improving now who knows how it will be in August.

    Nate can comment more on that with his medical expertise, but I’m thinking we may have seen the first, middle, and last of Harvin for those 19 plays against the Vikings.

    But at least he got paid. Now I just hope there is something in the contract that allows the recouping of cap money in the event of career ending/never starting injury.

    Not begrudging Harvin getting what he could, when he could. Just wishing there was some way out of the cap hell it is going to cause my favourite team to pay him that much and never get anything in return.

  3. We paid $11 million this year for an empty glass. We could have taken Cordarrelle Patterson, as I wanted us to. At least he’s returning kicks for TD’s and contributing something at WR.

    Right now, Harvin is the only Seahawk I cant stand besides FatAssCarp. I’d even rather spend time with Sweezy and Cable than Harvin. At least Sweezy is out there giving his all every day, and you know it or Bowie would be starting over him.

    Minnesota is laughing all the way to the bank on this one. Can we please make a legal document forbidding Seattle from ever signing or trading for a Minnesota Viking?! Seriously, they stole Futch and a first, third, seventh and god knows what all draft picks, and all we got was Nate “Underachiever” Burleson, Sidney Rice, and Harvin to show for it….Minny screws us coming and going, and our FO thanks them for it…sheesh, guys, at least make the Vikings provide the lube the next time you feel like getting reamed…

  4. Still, if they IR Harvin, I dont think he’ll be pleased. Serves him right, he can watch the playoffs from his couch as usual for him. It’ll be like old times in Minny…Maybe he can hang with Futch and go Ice Fishing…

  5. chuck_easton says:

    The big question, if he’s IR’ed does he get a cut of the Play off money? I certainly hope not. That 11 million this year is more than enough for what we didn’t get.

  6. thursday says:

    I’m looking forward to a definitive answer and final word to this, but gosh I’m tired of Carroll’s words being reworded. So I actually listened to the show. He never actually said “yeah we might put him on IR”. He said, we’ll get to the bottom of it middle of this week and see where we are/how things are going at that point.

    He also said, of course, that Harvin’s likely going to need the offseason to be 100%, that he’s worked really hard to get back and we’ll have an extraordinary player next year.

  7. chuck_easton says:

    OK, I have an explanation as provided on another site (sorry Todd) as to why Harvin has not and likely will not be IR’ed this season and it has nothing to do with the hope that he comes back to play this year.

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/hawkblogger/2013/12/28/percy-harvin-contract-explained/

    Basically, Harvin’s 2014 $11 million base salary is guaranteed for injury. So, if Harvin winds up on IR to end the year his salary is guaranteed in 2014. If they continue to carry him on the active roster knowing he won’t/can’t play he ‘officially’ ends the season as an active, but non participating player and his 2014 salary is no longer guaranteed.

    If he doesn’t make it back in 2014 they can cut him and not owe him another penny.

    So, I’m fine with keeping Harvin on the active roster the rest of the year with the knowledge he won’t see the field.

    I want Harvin to have to come out next year and EARN that spot on the team and EARN that $11 million. I too suspect he’s a malingerer and now that it is explained what is going on behind the scenes that suspision is becoming a confirmation.

    The team thinks Harvin could play. They aren’t going to reward him by putting him on IR and giving him the ability to sit home next year and collect another $11 million.

    Put up or shut up come 2014 Percy. You had your one free year of collecting money for nothing.

  8. Chuck–Wow. It would appear from that view that our worst fears regarding Harvin may be true. I’ll still give him the benefit of the doubt–for now. But I want to see him play through the pain and accomplish SOMETHING this year. How can you not play when this team has a great shot at the SB?! Ask Tony Gonzalez how badly he’d like to be in Harvins shoes.

    Even Matt Flynn played mangled in his College Championship game. Man up Harvin.

    Now that Ive said that, it would probably serve me right if Harvin was found to have some painful issue in his hip we’re unaware of that would keep anyone from playing.

  9. Dukeshire says:

    Dan Quinn is reported to be the Brown’s first candidate.

  10. Dukeshire–Say it aint so! I’d rather lose Bevell at this point, or Cable. Actually, I’d be okay with Cable getting poached. I hate the ZBS and the crap drafting we’ve done on the line. And I hate that after Bowie played so well he gets deactivated and we start Sweezy again…

  11. chuck_easton says:

    Darn,

    So the Browns will wait until Seattle is done with the season or they will ask permission of the FO to allow them to interview him now.

    Seattle let both Bevell and Bradly interview last year while the team was still in the play offs.

    Again, Carroll doesn’t want to stand between an opportunity of one of his guys to move up. He let Bradly interview pretty much knowing it would mean he’d get the job offer and leave. He will do the same for Quinn.

    So, who’s the next available choice for D Coordinator for 2014? Looks like Seattle will have their their 3rd DC in three years come next season.

  12. Ken Norton Jr for DC. Unless we can get someone like Lovie Smith.

  13. Dukeshire says:

    Sounds like they want to talk to him now…

  14. I never liked allowing a coach to interview during the playoffs. I wouldnt allow it. It was no real surprise that Seattle came out flat two weeks in a row on offense, and came out flat on D vs Atlanta after all the hullaballoo surrounding Bevell and Bradley and whether or not they were interviewing for HC jobs.

    I dont think coaches should be thinking about anything other than the upcoming playoff game, certainly not trying to interview for a HC position.

    And I cant see a coach being ready to be a HC only one year after becoming a DC in the NFL. Then again, he coulndt do worse than Chud.

  15. “I too suspect he’s a malingerer and now that it is explained what is going on behind the scenes that suspision is becoming a confirmation.”

    This hardly confirms that he is a malingerer. It could simply mean that they don’t believe he will recover fully and want to cut him after the year. It really only is confirmation that they’re not ready to guarantee that 11 mil in 2014 yet, for whatever reason.

    That said, thanks for the link, Chuck. I had wondered what his 2014 base salary being injury guaranteed actually meant. I thought it probably meant that they had taken out some sort of insurance policy on him.

    I believe you are wrong that he will have to come in and earn his pay in 2014 though, Chuck. From my understanding, his 2014 base salary still becomes guaranteed if he is on the roster past the 5th day of the 2014 league year. So, they still have a decision to make. As I have said, you should get a good idea of what the Hawks think of Harvin’s injury and/or commitment when they either cut or keep him come that date.

    As far as the injury goes, I’m not going to speculate. I’m not an orthopedic surgeon and I haven’t examined him. His doctors may not really know for sure right now. He may have to have at least an exploratory surgery. I am qualified to tell you that just because something doesn’t show up in an MRI doesn’t mean there isn’t something there. I think laypeople get these magical ideas from the portrayal of medicine in the media. An MRI is a powerful tool, but it is not all knowing. Things are regularly missed.

  16. MikeFromNewJersey says:

    Probably Ken Norton would be next in line to run the defense.

  17. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “No reason to spend a nanosecond on Harvin. Reports from the NFL Network are that the team will finally IR him this week. He Gone”

    Chuck, so much for not spending a nanosecond on Harvin. Lol. I know you just can’t help yourself can you?

    Now try and look at all this from a more realistic point of view. Most teams would love to have the talent on our team and be in the cap situation we are in despite what Harvins situation could do to it.

    We are in an enviable position right now with a Super Bowl contending team that has HFA all the way to the Super Bowl.

    We also have Sherman on the very cheap right now along with some other very good corners.
    We have a top five QB on a filthy cheap contract for this year and next year too.
    The list goes on.
    If folks just want to focus on how much we are losing and or may lose with Harvin it’s only fare to look at the whole picture, and the whole picture paints a truly remarkable job that this FO is doing. One that is the envy of pretty much all the NFL.

    As for losing possibly losing Quinn. So what! That’s what happens to great organizations. So long as we continue to have Carroll we will be just fine with regards to the defense.

  18. And I definitely understand the inclination to be pissed at Harvin. Even from someone that didn’t dislike him coming into the year. It is annoying that the move hasn’t worked out this year.

    I was somewhat ambivalent about the trade when it was just a rumor. The injury issue is always a big factor, especially when the player is less than 200 pounds. I do believe he got a bad rap for injuries in Minn, but you still have to worry about it. I totally discount the BS he got from fans about his migraines. I’ve had a few and I know people with severe migraines. Anyone here that says they would practice or play through a severe migraine is either a liar or ignorant.

    The guy has unbelievable talent. I really hope that he can recover and at least contribute in 2014. I am willing to support the team if they cut him though. If they think he didn’t work hard, was a bad influence, will be an injury liability in the future, etc. then they should cut him. I don’t believe they would keep him in spite of this just to save face. It doesn’t seem like they would from their history IMO.

  19. Dukeshire says:

    It would surprise me a bit if Norton would take over for Quinn. He’s had multiple opportunities, both here and at USC, to become DC, but to me knowledge he’s never even interviewed for any openings. Which is fine because I like him just where he’s at, as LB coach.

  20. The thing that does piss me off is when people say that he is stealing money. It’s a completely myopic and one-sided view. If you’re going to piss and moan about Harvin stealing money from the team then you should’ve been here pissing and moaning about the team stealing money when they cut Tatupu, BMW, Houshyamomma, Mike Rob, etc. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you only see it from your teams’ POV, then you might want to admit that you have no objectivity or fairness about the matter?

  21. RDPoulsbo says:

    If that’s the case as Chuck notes, I sure hope this is the out clause they need. They’d still have to swallow the $10mil cap charge for what’s left on the signing bonus. Still, it would take his cap charge off the table in 2015 when Sherman becomes a FA and Wilson is available for a contract re-negotiation. I’ve been skeptical of this signing, but it would be worthwhile (and the only way) if he comes back and significantly contributes in the playoffs and winning a Lombardi trophy. Anything short of that has to be viewed as a huge failure, and it’s becoming exceedingly likely that this will be the case.

  22. DreadHawks says:

    Theres probably alot of talented FAs that whould want to come to Seattle on the cheap, ala Avril,Bennett. Pete was voted by players as the most popular coach to play for by a landslide. ESPN players poll I think it was. If Harvin doesnt make the roster and we can save that money not to mention the money on Rice and possibly Zach Miller,our cap issues greatly improve.You also KNOW we will find some gems in the draft.

  23. RDPoulsbo says:

    So the Factory of Sadness in Cleveland wants to interview Quinn? A guy who’s only had 1 college and 1 NFL season as a DC and no HC experience? Just keep that conveyor belt rolling out the tears and frustration I guess. Maybe Quinn will become a good HC someday, but it’s not now and certainly can’t happen in the Mistake on the Lake.

  24. DreadHawks–Miller’s agent (and Cable) front-loaded his contract–he’s already earned the vast majority of his contract (ie, been paid). His cap hit is vastly reduced next year, and even moreso the year after that (2015). Seattle wont be cutting Miller now or in the future. He’s well worth what they will pay him the next two years, though I firmly believe we overpaid for him the previous few years. However, overpaying was necessary to pry him away from the Raiders, who likely offered just as much if not more for him to stay. Cable needed him, knowing he couldnt find another TE who could play well in his system from Day One.

    IMO, its the smartest thing Cable did, was stand on the table and demand Miller. Had we not signed Miller, we’d be firing Cable IMO. Miller and Lynch make this crap sandwich of an O-line limp along just enough to keep Cable in his job.

    Cable inherited Unger and Okung. He has failed to find and develop a single O-line of avg NFL starter caliber in three years.

  25. I highly doubt Seattle will have money to go out there on the UFA market in a big way.

    You save 7.3 mil from cutting Rice. That will be totally gone if you keep Tate and Baldwin. Guarantee that. Probably will take more than the 7.3 mil.

    Still don’t understand the obsession with cutting Miller? Who do we have to step into that role? No one I see. Especially since everyone seems to think every draft pick should be on the o-line.

    They’d save 3.8 mil in 2014 by cutting Harvin. And then you have a hole at WR that you probably at least have to use a higher draft pick on.

    Breno is an UFA. So is Bennett. Sherm could demand to renegotiate. Clem will be cut. They need to focus primarily on keeping their own IMO. And you can’t fill every hole by drafting 6-7 offensive lineman.

  26. We only need to draft two good OL. Only–sheesh, Cable has had three years plus and hasnt managed that–or is it four?!

    Seriously though, Im the biggest critic of this line and Coach Cable, but Okung and Unger are solid, and I think its reasonable to count on Bowie being able to handle one of the G positions next year. That leaves us needing one G spot and a future RT with talent to hopefully beat out Giacomini at RT next year, and voila! A decent O-line for the first time since 2005!

    But they really need to draft 2 linemen in their top 3 picks, and this time hit homeruns. Enough with the guys who supposedly run block great but cant pass pro–all we’ve ended up with are guys who can do neither worth a damn. Get some guys who can pass pro with bad attitudes, and coach em UP IN THE RUN GAME CABLE!!

  27. freedom_X says:

    Dan Quinn would be a fool to take the Browns job. That front office has no idea what it’s doing. They’re making the Bengals look like the Patriots. If Cleveland has targeted Quinn, it’s because they know that more qualified candidates aren’t interested. (just like Chip Kelly scorned them after they offered Kelly the keys to the city.)

    I had been a keep-Zach Miller advocate, but unless this offense can get more out of the TE, he might be expendable if the money is needed to keep another top player.

  28. With Clem and Rice’s money Seattle should be able to sign Tate and maybe Bennett. (Not that 14 mill will totally pay for them, but it should help a lot). That still leaves us needing to find a way to pay ET, Sherm, RW, etc.

    I think Breno is gone unless he take a big paycut. As bad as this line has performed, we might as well be paying everyone not named Okung or Unger league min. Cause thats what their production has been. The money might as well get spent elsewhere, where it might actually do some good.

  29. Again, Miller was making 7 or 8 million a year through this year, but his pay drops dramatically to about 5 million next year and less the year after. He’s here barring injury for the next couple years at least. Correct me if Im wrong on the numbers bbmate…Im going off memory here, which is admittedly hazy…

  30. I listened to Pete’s comments on Percy and I have a slightly different take (starts at 8:30 minutes in). He characterizes the situation as a “personal thing” and that “he’ll need the offseason to be 100%.” Part of me wonders if this is Pete’s way of saying Percy’s at 80 – 90% but isn’t willing to play unless he’s 100%. And I wonder if the IR is being dangled out there as a motivator for Percy.

    Just me speculating…

  31. I wonder if any team in the AFC would be dumb enough to trade a 3rd round pick for Harvin.

  32. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/zach-miller/

    He has cap hits of 7 and 6 mil the next 2 years. Though you’d only save 5 mil versus the cap if you cut him before 2014 or 2015. I think it would be totally stupid to cut him before 2014.

  33. chuck_easton says:

    Nate,

    We agree on Miller going nowhere. Cutting Clem will save $7.5 million both in salary and cap room. Clem is likely gone.

    I’m not worried about Baldwin. He’s only an RFA. The team will tender him, most likely at a 2nd rounder or $2.4 million salary, and will wait to see if he gets any offer sheets from other teams. Depending on the amount of the offer they can match or let him walk and get a 2nd round draft choice.

    Tate is the concern. He is going to want to get paid and he deserves to as well. The questions will be 1. can Seattle afford to pay him? 2. Will he accept what Seattle offers? 3. will he think he’s worth more and opt to test the FA waters?

    Seattle can’t afford to pay Tate any more than what Rice is making now, or in the 8 million range. If Tate thinks he can get more elsewhere then he’s likely gone.

    Miller’s cap hit for next season is only 6.5 million and his salary is only 4.5. If the team cuts him the cap hit is still 2.5 million and then they have to go out and sign a player of his calibre. The end result would likely be 3 million or so for the new guy, the 2 million cap hit for a total of 5 million and a savings of 1.5. Not worth it to lose a guy that brings as much to the team as Miller does.

    The team saves 3.8 million on the cap in 2014 if they cut Harvin, but they are then free of any further cap hit in 2015 when Sherm is a FA and Wilson’s contract can be re-negotiated. So, if Harvin isn’t likely to produce cutting him and saving that 3.8 next year and being free of the contract entirely in 2015 might be the right move.

    As for the comment that Harvin is stealing money, that is if Harvin could indeed be playing and just refuses to play through the pain. There are many on here, myself included, that have come to that determination. Harvin has done nothing to dispell that notion. If he really is legitimately hurt then it isn’t stealing. As I said earlier, I begrudge no player getting what they can and what the team is willing to offer. I take issue with a player that hasn’t given the organization anything but false hope taking money that could go to keeping a player that has shown he deserves the money. I.e. I hate giving FA’s big contracts. Seattle’s history is such that you would be hard pressed to name 3 FA signings made by this team that worked out.

  34. chuck_easton says:

    If I were the GM I might have still pulled the trigger on the Harvin trade. I would have drawn the line on an immediate new contract. He was still under contract. The deal would be that the team would agree to re-negotiate with him AFTER they saw what he could bring to the table.

    That is what they did with Bennett and Avril. Bennett has shown he deserves to be re-signed. Avril still has another year here on his contract and if next year goes as hoped he will be in line for a new contract come 2015.

    Giving Harvin guaranteed money was the mistake. But it wasn’t Harvin’s fault. Who is going to tell their employer they don’t want the big raise when it is offered?

  35. It bothers me no end that Harvin may be able to play, and just wont, yet he’s making $11 million a year. Contrast that with Tate, who is making far less, yet has improved in all areas–mental, behavior, leadership, playing etc–for four years now and we may not be able to pay the man. And there’s Baldwin, led the team as a rookie, proved this year he can play FL as well as Slot, plays hurt and plays well hurt, and we likely wont be able to keep him past next year.

    This team was built on the promise that if you were a good Seahawk and a good player, the team would reward you in due course. This promise is on the line. They paid Kam for playing through injuries all year, and he rewarded them this year with his best year yet.

    Its time to cut bait on guys like Rice, and pay guys like Tate and Baldwin.

    Harvin is a conundrum. Right now, I’d be fine with cutting him. Its not like Schneiders first round picks have been consistently good anyway–Okung and Thomas were great, but Carp sucks and is an utter bust, and Irvin so far hasnt been worth his draft status though I like him fine, and so losing a first fro Harvin sucks but it could be worse. I damned sure dont want to lose Sherman or ET or Tate or Baldwin for a guy who has yet to play a full game for us, a guy who so far has been unable or unwilling to play through pain. A guy who may just keep getting hurt even if he does prove he can play through pain.

    As Percy Turns…

  36. According to this http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Seahawks&Year=2014 cutting Clemon’s saves 7.5M. Cutting Rice saves 7.3M. I think both of those will happen. I think they will ask Miller to renegotiate his contract. Cutting him saves $5M. He has not played up to his contract and I’m thinking the team feels Willson should be ready to be a starter soon. McCoy is bad next year too, right?

    You’ve got Tate, Baldwin, and Giacomini as free agents in 2014, but you’d also like to get Earl Thomas and Sherman signed. And then next year, you have to try and renegotiate Russell Wilson’s contract. It’s not gonna happen without letting someone good walk.

    I think the Percy signing was with Tate leaving in mind. They likely viewed Percy as a better version of Tate for about $3M more per year.

  37. montanamike2 says:

    Im going to be sick if signing Harvin costs us Tate.

    I feel the same way. My joke this morning was merely a play on words, nothing more, i couldn’t help myself because it was right there in front of me. BobbyK , it is a strange coincidence how the assasination rifle for JFK was the most inaccurate POS Bulgarian soft metal that was so badly rifled it was almost civil war bad. But i’ll stick to football from now on, sorry.

  38. If we win the Superbowl this year I’m willing to go 0-16 next year. Just let us get that first one.

    Miller has earned his money imho. There are plenty of others who get their walking papers before Zach get’s his.

  39. hawkdawg says:

    Miller has been worth it. Cutting him, or at least losing him, now would be foolish.

  40. And Mr. Harvin, this is a plea to play. 70%, 80%, whatever it is you have to give this team really needs you in there. This is our shot at a championship. Right f’in NOW!

  41. I guess I better stick with my wild ass guess from a few days ago that Harvin is done for good…as in forever. I’m right 5% of the time after all.

  42. RDPoulsbo says:

    I like Zach, but the cost vs. production just isn’t enough and going with Willson as starter next year isn’t the worst thing that can happen. They’re going to need to look under the couch cushions for extra change if they’re going to keep their young core together.

    At this point, I think Tate is gone along with Avril, Rice and Clemons and possibly Miller. That gets them in position to offer contracts to Sherman, Bennett and Wilson. Sucks but the paydays of players on the cheap are about to come due. The only way to keep it going it to keep drafting new guys to continue to play for cheap and be willing to let UFAs go elsewhere.

  43. chuck_easton says:

    Georgia,

    I was advising we shouldn’t waste a nano second discussing if Harvin will play this year. Still holding to that.

    We are now discussing Harvin in the 2014 sense as that is the next time we likely will be able to debate his avialability, his effectivness, and his value.

    Nate, I can see your point that cutting Harvin on or before February 7, 2014 only saves 3.8 million in 2014 cap space. What I am looking at is the long term.

    Cut Harvin now and admit the error. Cap savings:

    2014: $3.8 million
    2015: $12.9 million
    2016: $12.3 million
    2017: $12.35 million
    2018: $11.150 million

    That’s huge cap savings starting 2015 when some of our core players are ready to get rewarded.

    Say they decide to give Harvin one more year and see how things work out. Let’s assume nothing changes and he continues to be unavailable in 2014 and the decision is then to cut him in 2015. Here’s the cap savings:

    2014: $13.4 million cap hit (up from the $4.9 million hit this year)
    cut 2015:
    2015: $3.2 million cap savings
    2016 and on are the same.

    So, Harvins deal is structured that he got the $14 million guaranteed this year but his cap hit was only $4.9 million.

    Harvin’s cap hit in 2014 is either $13.4 million (up 8.5 million from this year) if he’s on the team, or $9.6 million if he’s cut. Savings of #3.8 million on the cap and no further cap hits.

    Harvin’s cap hit in 2015 (if he isn’t cut in 2014) would be $12.9 million if he’s on the team or $9.7 million if he’s cut. So cutting Harvin in 2015 only saves $3.2 million that year.

    There is no savings in giving Harvin another year if the team has determined he isn’t ever going to be what they hoped.

    In fact keeping Harvin for 2014 will cost the team $13.4 million in cap hit while only saving $3.2 million in 2015, or $500,000.00 more of a cap hit to cut him in 2015 than 2014. Add on to that 2014 cap hit means the team will have used up an additional $23.1 million in cap space over 2014-2015 by keeping Harvin another year.

    So, yes, the time to seriously evaluate Harvin’s place on this team comes before February 7, 2014.

  44. montanamike2

    The rifle Oswald used was Italian. And it was accurate enough. In testing shooters were able to hit targets with 2 out of 3 shots within 6 seconds, from the same distance Oswald shot Kennedy. And they didn’t have the practice with the weapon Oswald had.

    Free yourself from paranoia and conspiracy theories. Or free us at least, and quit talking about it here.

    And btw, America put twelve men on the moon too.

  45. montanamike2 says:

    OK rbuzby your win.

  46. I’m still wondering how Percy’s hip mysteriously got injured 2 months after being traded with no contact drills. Wondering if he was hiding the injury to get paid.

  47. Only if it’s a package deal to take Harvin too and we get compensated with picks.

  48. Chuck, I wasn’t saying whether or not they should cut Harvin after the year. I was simply saying what would be saved versus the 2014 cap. That’s all. I trust PC/JS to make the decision on whether or not to cut him. They are much closer to the situation than I, and they both have forgotten more about football than likely anyone here knows.

    I had my worries when the trade was made. Injuries were really my only major concern. It’s football. It happens. I’d rather not spend my time complaining about the few bad moves made by people that turned one of the oldest, least talented rosters into one of the youngest, most talented rosters in 3 years or less. Maybe that’s just me. I know everyone here would’ve done a much better job.

    Just to point this out, nobody here KNOWS that Harvin refuses to play with pain. It’s just speculation. Speculate if you wish, but don’t pretend like it’s a fact.

  49. “I’m still wondering how Percy’s hip mysteriously got injured 2 months after being traded with no contact drills. Wondering if he was hiding the injury to get paid.”

    Was it a mystery to you when Anthony McCoy tore his Achilles in a non-contact drill? How about when Jeremy Maclin tore his ACL?

  50. Miller, Bennett, Avril, McDaniel, Browner, Branch, and TJack. There’s at least 7 FA signings that worked out.

  51. chuck_easton says:

    Nate,

    I have never pretended it was a fact. I have been very clear that I (me) personally think he’s either unwilling or unable to play in pain.

    I can say that a person’s pain threashold is unique to each individual. It could very well be that Percy is one of those people that can’t tolerate pain at all. Or it could very well be that the pain he is experiencing would bring Chuck Norris to tears. Don’t know.

    I am just stating my opinion that I perceive Harvin to be a guy that won’t play through pain. Just my gut reaction and I’m sticking to it.

  52. Chuck, that’s fair enough. And I was hardly only referring to you.

    I personally don’t know whether they should cut him or not, as I said. They know him a lot better than me. They shouldn’t keep him just to attempt to save face though. I really don’t think they would. Though they haven’t invested in another player like they have with Percy, they haven’t shown the slightest hesitation in cutting a player.

  53. chuck_easton says:

    And with the exception of Miller on that list, every one of those guys signed a ‘make-good’ contract. And now we have people (not you or me, but others) complaining that Miller was overpaid.

    As I said before, if the Harvin trade was completed and Harvin was told he needed to play out the year on his existing contract and then there would be talk of an extension, I’d be fine.

    I don’t like giving big money to a guy that hasn’t given the team anything. I’d have no problem paying Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Tate, Baldwin, Wright, Wagner…

    Not Harvin’s fault they threw money at him. Just frustrated with the result and I will continue to think Harvin is a china doll until he proves otherwise.

  54. Funny, all year PFT and other media sites have been trying to paint John Idzik as a schemer who only kept Rex Ryan to blame him for the teams inevitable failure this year, to buy time to build from. And now I see a video where the teams owner tells the team Rex is back for another year. The team goes nuts. And then its Idziks turn, and although he doesnt say much, it seems from the heart. And him and Rex seem pretty tight. Rex seems grateful to be given another shot, and Idzik doesnt look the least bit the scheming GM they’d love to paint him…

    Sheesh, its not like he’s Timmay! Numbskull, the biggest paranoid schemer since Dennis Ericksen…

    Anyway, I think Idzik did the right thing, and I think the Jets may be turning things around. Unlike the Browns, who have a great D and offensive stars but keep hiring and firing coaches so cant build anything….

  55. Julian Peterson – Joe Jurevicious -

  56. Am I the only person that finds it ironic when people that regularly complain about how bad the o-line is say we should cut Miller due to a lack of production? And then replace him with someone who couldn’t block my grandma.

  57. SandpointHawk says:

    No bbmate you’re not the only one who takes note of that…

  58. I feel for anyone who takes the Cleveland job!! it is just plain messed up there. Would be like managing for the M’s . . . . .

  59. Harvin to practice Thursday and play in next game according to Pete Carroll. Seriously….

  60. boycie99 says:

    So the Niners signed Cox
    Harbaugh is desperate for info on our D. Sad

  61. bbmate–Kellen Davis can block. He can even get open. He just cant catch a cold. I hate our line, and wish Cable would go coach the Browns, but I dont want Miller cut now that he’s actually affordable/reasonable. I know you didnt necessarily mean me, just saying…

    Todd tweeted that Harvin will practice Thursday with an eye towards playing in the playoff game.

    Funny. Carrol talks to the Media and implies IR is a viable option and touts the middle of the week as judgement day, and LO! Harvin is announced as heading to practice Thursday….Why am I not surprised?! I guess thats better than him not practicing, but funny how it comes right after some tough talk from Carrol…

    Ill take Tate and his effort any day over Harvin and his speed and issues.

  62. Not giving Harvin an extension may have been the smart thing to do. I really don’t know. I don’t fault anyone for thinking/predicting it was a bad trade at the time or now. If they cut him this off-season then it will be undeniable. I do find it annoying when people, no one in particular, only harp on this out of the moves PC/JS have made or say that this trade is definitely a failure already. Unless you have a crystal ball then you don’t know that he won’t be MVP in 2014 and the Hawks win the SB in 2014-2015.

  63. Interesting that Cleveland and Minnesota are after guys with VERY little experience on the scheme of things.

    ON another Note Percy Harvin will Practice on Thursday with the intention of playing in the divisional round – according to KJR

  64. chuck_easton says:

    drshort,

    Where did this info come from? It would end a whole lot of fun arguments, but would also be a welcome turn of events for an offense that desperately could use a shot in the arm.

  65. bbmate — the only reason to think about cutting Miller is because we’re desperate for cap space to resign:

    Sherman at 10M a year
    Thomas at 9M a year
    Tate at 6M a year
    Wilson at 18 – 20M a year

    Good players are going to be let go. It’s not that we don’t want them.

  66. STTBM, I definitely wasn’t referring to you. As far as I remember, you haven’t been in favor of cutting Miller.

  67. Harvin info was just announced in Pete’s press conference.

  68. freedom_X says:

    Carroll just said this in the current press conference (Harvin to practice this week.) How those practices go determines if Harvin will be able to play in the next game.

    Whatever the feelings towards Harvin, he’s on the team now and Seattle can really use him if he’s 90% or better.

  69. chuck_easton says:

    drshort,

    Sherman at 10 million a year? Not that ANYONE on here would complain about that, but I don’t see Sherman being willing to accept anything short of 12-15.

    If Schneider can get Sherman for 10 million get the deal done tomorrow!!!!

  70. This may be petty, but I couldn’t help smiling at the Stealers getting screwed out of the playoffs by the refs.

    drshort, tough decisions will certainly have to be made, but I just don’t see Miller getting cut before next year at least. A lot of this depends on if Sherm, ET, etc. are willing to play out their contracts. And I’d bet you Sherm gets at least 12+ mil on the open market. I think Tate gets around 7.

  71. drshort–I think Wilson settles for 15 million or less. Seattle will make him their highest paid player–they pretty much have to–but he wants to win, and understands that if he takes 20 a year, the team will suffer. He will take less so they can keep someone like Tate or Bennett or Sherm because he knows he will get his, and he understands its about winning SB’s not how much money you make in salary that matters. Besides, after we win the SB, Wilson will make bank in endorsements anyway…

    The problem for the team will be to try to explain to guys like Tate and Baldwin and Bennett and Sherman and ET etc who have busted their asses and played through injuries why they cant pay them fair market value when they paid that huge contract to Harvin before he so much as caught a pass for Seattle. Id hate to be a fly on the wall during those meetings! As my six year old son would say “Thats AWKWARD!”

  72. I doubt many here would argue with the thought that the Hawks offense could desperately use Harvin in the playoffs. Especially if Kearse is gimpy.

  73. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’ve been saying Miller could become a cap casualty since they signed Harvin not because I want him gone, but because I’d rather see them re-sign other guys. I’ve also been very critical of the can’t block crew up front and would like to see upgrades there as well so they don’t have to pay a guy $5 mil/year to be an extra tackle. Of course that’s going to cost resources too in either picks or cap room, which Harvin has been sucking up.

    See why I was skeptical of the Harvin trade? Only a Lombardi trophy in which he contributes significantly in the playoffs this year to get would make that trade worth it to me and it’s not looking promising.

  74. I think you should be able to get Sherman for 10M per year if you renegotiate his final year (an no income tax in WA has to be worth something). You’d be giving him big $$ a year sooner. I think for Sherman it will matter to have “the biggest CB contract ever!” so the final year will probably have some ridiculous salary that’s easy to avoid. The 10M was more about cap hits.

  75. bbmate–Petty would be cheering while bad calls robbed the Stealers of TWO Super Bowl victories, not just laughing your butt off when hearing a bad call cost them the playoffs at 8-8.

    Seattle got screwed by refs vs the Raiders on a John L Williams TD to end the game that cost us the playoffs in 1988 I think it was. We got screwed by refs vs the Jets when somehow a ref thought a white helmet down on the one yard line was a brown football in the endzone. And we got hosed so badly in SB 40 that my faith in the refs and Goodell was shaken permanently.

    So no, I dont think youre petty at all. Shitsburgh got exactly what they deserved–at least in part. Karma owes them a boatload more of the same, if you ask me.

  76. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Chuck, you just triggered (in me) an idea that we should change Harvins name to Perceive Harvin.

    And since we are well into premature speculation mode today I may as well chip in and give some of my premature speculation predictions.

    1.- We win our first Super Bowl this season.
    2.- Wilson wins the Super Bowl MVP award.
    3.- Our Defense makes the big stop at the end of the Super Bowl to preserve the win.
    4.- We draft a stud WR in next years draft.
    5.- We draft a stud Guard in next years draft.
    6.- Carpenter becomes a bust.
    7.- Irvin becomes a bust the next year.
    8.- We sign Thomas long term, and Wilson long term.
    9.- The FO continues to find good players in the later rounds.
    10- And the beat goes on.

  77. RDPoulsbo says:

    …and apparently Carroll just said Percy is going to practice this week. We’ll see…

  78. In 1988 the Seahawks won the division beating the Raiders in LA 43-37 on the final game of the year. It was a winner take all game.

  79. Georgia–Carp already IS a bust. Only Cable and Carrol have yet to admit it. He will be out of the NFL within a year, IMO. And on Biggest Loser–three times…where he will lose because he just doesnt care.

    Irvin is not, and will not, be a bust, because he CARES. He also has speed and agility, and understands football. Did you see his anticipation on that INT earlier this year on the wheel route?! He watched film, saw it coming, and beat his man to the ball. How many LB’s have the knowledge and balls to leave their man to jump a route that far downfield?! He’s been quiet for the last 3-4 games, true, but he’s not been abused in coverage like Wright was last year and half of this season. Not even once. He may never justify a top-15 pick, but he damn sure isnt a bust. He’s a fine LB, a potential Pro Bowler IMO. Wait and see.

    I hope we resign Bennett and Tate somehow to add to your list. And Baldwin.

  80. slicktoxic says:

    Chad Brown

  81. Pabs–I may have the year wrong, but I do remember John L scoring in the corner of the endzone, and refs ruling it that he stepped out..even though he carried the ball across the corner, inside the pylon. It was a horrible call and cost us the playoffs. Jerry Markbreit always seemed to ref the Raiders/Hawks games, and he always made some stinky calls in their favor. I always hated that guy…

  82. chuck_easton says:

    short,

    Again, I wouldn’t bat an eyelash at that, but I also look at Sherman the player and Sherman the man. He wants to be recognized as the best CB in the game. Let’s face it, by his play he IS the best CB in the game. But there is that guy down in Tampa that is the best PAID CB in the game.

    Revis’ new contract is 7 years 96 million. His base salary is $13 million a season, never goes up, never goes down. It also has no guarantees so the first year Revis doesn’t bring the goods he can be cut with no future cap consequences.

    Revis also has a yearly roster bonus of 1.5 and a yearly workout bonus of 1.5 so the annual cap hit is 16 million to match what Revis gets paid.

    That is the starting point. The team is going to have to give Sherman a contract that beats the 7 year 96 million look. Again, it’s all in the structure. A big signing bonus spread out over the length of the contract with gradually increasing annual salary and viola the contract can be announced as the biggest ever while allowing for the smallest cap hit possible. Not saying it can’t be done.

    In my uneducated opinion any deal that appears to be only 10 million a season isn’t going to get Sherm’s name on the dotted line.

  83. chuck_easton says:

    Let’s refine that story.

    Percy Harvin is scheduled to practice on Thursday. He may, he may not. IF Harvin does practice on Thursday and IF he comes through said practice and next week’s practices relatively symptom free Harvin MAY then parcipate in an upcoming playoff game.

    I hope beyond belief for the Seahawks sake that Harvin actually does get there. Nobody on this site would not want him out there during the playoffs just so they can say they were ‘right about him all along’.

    But I’m not holding my breath or running out to buy a #11 Jersey until I actually see the phenomenon with my own eyes.

  84. chuck–One fly in the ointment of that is the contract paid to Julius Peppers in Chicago. The trend in the NFL since last offseason is to not pay exorbitant amounts to pass rushers and corners and WR’s. Only the price of qb’s has stayed sky high. A couple years ago, guys like Peppers commanded up to 18 million a year. Not now. Teams are colluding, becuase paying guys that much with the salary cap was just not sustainable. So the owners talked and worked it out…

    What that means is that I doubt any team is willing to pay a corner–any corner–16 million a year going forward. Ask Avril and Michael Bennett what happens when you bet on ever-inflating salaries; Avril turned down a huge contract the year before FA, and by the time he hit FA the market collapsed and he had to settle for a much smaller 2-year deal here. Bennett never got the money offers he deserved due to injury and because he’s a tweaner.

    And the lure of getting paid a bunch up front a year early is big. Especially for a guy like Sherm who relies on speed and agility–he cant afford to go another year risking injury, so cash in hand is worth double in the future…

    I guess what Im saying is the market for everything but QB has flattened, and I dont see Sherm or anyone else commanding anything close to 16 million a year. And we overpaid ridiculously for Harvin in salary even had he stayed healthy…

    But that should help us resign some of our guys. Heres hoping…

  85. Chuck — i agree. Sherman will get the biggest total contract ever but it will be structured to not kill the cap over the next few years

  86. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- I didn’t say Irvin is a bust. I said he will be. Even Curry showed rare flashes of good LB play.
    Irvin didn’t record any tackles in the two most important games yet this year. If he continues to play like that he will be headed to bustville to hook up with Carpenter, Moffitt and Curry very soon imo. That is if he doesn’t get suspended again first.

    Mark my words STTBM, you will be wishing big time in two years or less that the FO would have taken DeCastro over Irvin in the draft.
    I wish they would have taken DeCastro over Irvin right now. That would have taken care of our RG issues at least don’t you think?

  87. Southendzone says:

    Sherman at 10m a year is fantasy. Give up on that one. Wilson is more up in the air, we dont know what he will do in the next couple seasons

  88. MoSeahawk12 says:

    This team has been build entirely different than former Seahawks teams and has managed the cap pretty well over the past four seasons. They are stacked with solid/great players at almost every position. They don’t need to grab that high priced free agent QB, receiver, DB or lineman to put this team over the top. With the amount of previous draft picks contributing early in their careers, this team will not need to make a big free agent splash anyway. As long time fans, we’ve believed that we are often just one guy away, but in reality we’ve always been five or six guys away. Not anymore. This team is fundamentally different than any previous team. They’ve won and won lots of games with a mix of solid drafting and specific free agency targets to enhance the holes. Sure Harvin was a very splashy signing, but they have been building this thing right and have more than stuck with a long term plan as this team is at the top of the league in most of the important categories that translate into wins. He wasn’t brought in to win this year. He was brought in to enhance and expand on the youth and skill of this team for years to come.

    Also as a competitive side note, it was reported the 9ers were also very interested in him. Sure that could have been a bluff to raise the asking price, but would you really want to risk going against the 9ers with Kap, Davis, Crabtree and Percy? Our D is awesome, but that would be a tough task.

  89. roddychops says:

    Well, well.
    Percy to practice on Thursday.

  90. Really? I take full credit…I predicted him gone for good and I’m right 5% of the time.

    If he practices…it is my doing.

  91. Todd tweets that Carrol insists there was nothing contractually or personally influencing whether Harvin practiced or not. Tell the Truth Monday or not, not sure Im buying what hes selling. I dont believe its coincidence that right after news comes out Harvin might go to IR and right after Carrol says we should know something by midweek, its announced Harvin will practice.

    I guess Harvin really does want a speaking role in the Seahawks Smash Hit Play “SB in 2014 or BUST!” lol!

  92. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Chuck, If Harvin plays are going to admit that you were totally wrong,(because you have put in a lot of time and effort stating your case about him) or are you going to refine your story? Lol.

  93. roddychops says:

    @Percy_Harvin
    12’s see u in 2 weeks … It’s go time once again

    @Percy_Harvin
    And to all the haters who tried to kick when I was down … Can’t express how much fuel u added to my fire

  94. Georgia–But thats one major difference between Irvin and Curry. Curry had entitlement issues and didnt really care–thats why he failed. Irvin, as I said, REALLY cares. He will be fine. Now, I have no idea if he will ever play Leo but I think he’s gonna be a good LB for a long time.

    Even his suspension came about because of the pressure he put himself under trying to live up to Carrols high regard of him. Now he doesnt have quite the same microscope and he’s in a position that suits him better from the get-go. I think he’ll be fine. He’s not making bonehead mistakes or being caught out of position like Curry. ANd he made enough plays before that hit I mentioned to make a believer out of me.

    Dont even talk to me about DeHutchstro. I dont wanna think about him, or Chance Warmack, or any of the other linemen who were drafted that could have helped us. Even had we drafted him, he’d be on the bench and Cable would be sticking with Breno, McFinished, FatCarp, and the Sweezebag. So it wouldnt matter anyway.

    But yes, I wanted him. Bad. Still do. Just like I wanted us to take Muhammad Wilkerson. He’s turned out to be a total stud too.

  95. Really would like to hear more about the “multiple setbacks on his surgically repaired hip” that Carroll references in his quote in the NFL.com story. We never heard anything as definitive as “multiple setbacks” in the weekly merry-go-round about Harvin.

  96. Man, am I excited to see Harvin kick some butt in the playoffs and hopefully in the SB. Then I can eat a huge ol steaming helping of crow. It will taste especially fine if we win the big game. Cant wait! Come on Percy, feed me some of that old nasty bird!

  97. They’re practicing Wednesday too, I thought…why is Harvin waiting until Thursday to practice?

  98. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- The Scare Crow in the Wizard of OZ cared but he didn’t have a brain.
    Let’s hope you are right because if your first round draft pick can’t even make one fricken tackle in two of the most important games of the year how will he ever become even an average LB at best in the NFL?

  99. chuck_easton says:

    Georgia,

    Nope. There will be absolutely no reason to revise my perception of Haevin. Everything I have said to date has been based on the current status.

    IF Harvin actually makes it ion the field I’ll be thrilled because it will help the team.

    He hasn’t made it onto the field yet. It’s time for Percy to out up and show his doubters wrong.

    If he does that I will be just as happy as you. But I’m not going to be all sunshine and happiness just because you say so. You are sunshine and happiness enough for the both of us Georgia. Keep up your end of the team and I’ll keep up mine. It’s working so far. Let’s not mess with a good thing.

  100. sluggo42 says:

    Well well well. Isn’t this a twist nobody was expecting, some more than others.

    I was unhappy but held comment for not knowing. My gut agreed with all y’all hating on him, but the eternal optimist in me hoped he would return.

    He isn’t on the field yet, but it had been mentioned numerous times that he was not going to be unleashed until playoffs, so nobody would know what was coming.

    49ers got Crabtree back, now it’s our turn to get our #1 back. Oh boy….

  101. sluggo42 says:

    Georgia? Seriously? You’re hating on Irvin? A key piece of the best D in the league? Just cuz he is low on stats? What if he is the guy taking out the lead blocker, and sacrificing his body for wags to make the tackle? Or whatever?

    You have some odd takes….

  102. tealskin says:

    I guess if Harvin is at 70-90% he should just play so everybody would shut up. Even if the medical folks determine it’s a risky proposition and could threaten his career? Come on Percy play through the pain. Be a Man. Prove all the doubters wrong. Shut up all the yokels on the webs that know your body, and attitude better than you do, or the coach. Guess we’d rather see him self-destruct than have him sitting on the couch getting rich.

  103. GeorgiaHawk says:

    sluggo42-
    I’m not hating on Irvin yet,(just very frustrated and disapointed) but how do you explain 0 tackles in the last two games? The most important games of the year.
    I wouldn’t be as concerned if he was a late round pick but he was a first round pick.
    He really needs to step it up if he’s going to live up to his first round status imo.

  104. Todd Dybas says:

    Hey, Audible.

    We received a preliminary schedule that was incorrect. The Seahawks will practice Thursday and Friday this week. They are off Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday. Hope that clears it up for you.

    — Todd

  105. STTBM, I certainly remember that Jets game in 1998. That was a steaming pile. Same play as the phantom Roethlisberger TD in SB 40, although at least they couldn’t look at it in replay in 1998. If memory serves, that was one of the major plays that led to replay coming back.

    I still don’t get why some of you think PC is going to tell the media the truth when it doesn’t suit him or the team? Keep banging your head into that wall.

    And I don’t know why some play this roller coaster with Harvin. It would be great if he can play in the playoffs, but I’m not going to chase my tail about it. They can win the SB without him, though it certainly would be easier with him.

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