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Morning links: Does a fullback help Lynch’s rushing?

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Dec. 24, 2013 at 2:21 am with 98 Comments »
December 24, 2013 3:22 am
Marshawn Lynch ran for 71 yards against the Cardinals last Sunday. / AP photo
Marshawn Lynch ran for 71 yards against the Cardinals last Sunday. / AP photo

Good morning.

We’ll start today with the snap counts vs. Arizona:

game 15 arizona 1

game 15 arizona 2

We see a couple notable things. Paul McQuistan has taken over most of the snaps at left guard. The fullback was hardly used. Lots of run for Michael Bennett.

A few times, I’ve been asked about the Seahawks’ fullback usage, primarily when the Seahawks don’t run well. Digging back through the snap counts, there is no direct correlation between a large amount of fullback usage and more yards for Marshawn Lynch.

In the table below, we see that a fullback was on the field for 30 percent of the snaps when Lynch ran for a season-high 145 yards versus Atlanta.

The next week, the same fullback, Michael Robinson, played 48 percent of the snaps when Lynch carried 17 times for 54 yards (it should be noted two other backs, Robert Turbin and Christine Michael, combined for eight carries in the blowout of Minnesota. So, that increased Robinson’s time on the field that day).

A fullback has played as few as 12 percent of the offensive plays three times (at Indianapolis, at Arizona and vs. Arizona) and Lynch has 102 yards (6.0 YPC), 91 yards (4.3) and 71 yards (3.9), respectively, in those games. His season average per game is 77.3 yards and 4.2 yards per carry. In those three games with minimal fullback usage, his average is 88 yards per game and 4.7 yards per carry.

Here’s the table with the percentage of snaps a fullback played that game and the total offensive snaps, who the primary fullback was and Lynch’s results:

GamePrimary fullbackFB % (total O snaps in game)Lynch carries-yards
1Coleman20% (65)17-43 (2.5 YPC)
2Coleman28% (76)28-98 (3.5)
3Coleman38% (68)17-69 (4.1)
4Coleman38% (61)17-98 (5.8)
5Coleman12% (69)17-102 (6.0)
6Coleman22% (68)21-77 (3.7)
7Coleman12% (63)21-91 (4.3)
8Robinson25% (44)8-23 (2.9)
9Robinson29% (63)21-125 (6.0)
10Robinson30% (69)24-145 (6.0)
11Robinson48% (52)17-54 (3.2)
12MR 19 snaps / DC 1345% (71)16-45 (2.8)
13Robinson19% (53)20-72 (3.6)
14MR 8 / DC 722% (69)16-47 (2.9)
15Robinson12% (52)18-71 (3.9)

Here’s another way to look at it. Lynch’s yards per carry in descending order and the percentage of offensive snaps played by a fullback in the same game:

Lynch YPCFullback usage

The perfect way to analyze this would be to look at all of Lynch’s carries and figure his yards per carry with a fullback versus without. That’s a chore we may save for another day (I’d also like to know his directional success, yards per carry by quarter and more).

But, the information above gives us a pretty clear view that a fullback on the field isn’t the determining factor for Lynch’s success or lack there of.

And one aside to pass along: The Cardinals had 16 first downs Sunday. Four were rushing, six were passing. The other six? Via Seahawks penalties.


> For today’s paper, I wrapped up  yesterday from the VMAC with Pete Carroll reminding everyone the sky is not falling.

> Our Dave Boling writes that Carroll went looking for his leaders following the loss.

> 710’s Danny O’Neil on what we learned from Sunday’s loss.

> Here’s the wrap-up of yesterday from the Everett Herald.

> writes that third downs have come back to haunt the Seahawks.

> Brandon Browner put out a couple tweets yesterday:

> The 49ers survived a surprising challenge from the Atlanta Falcons on Monday night to win, 34-24. Linebacker NaVorro Bowman came up with an 89-yard pick-six with 1:10 remaining to keep Atlanta from tying the game or taking the lead after the Falcons recovered an onside kick and made it to the San Francisco 10-yard line. Atlanta threw on 2nd-and-1 from the 10, leading to the pick after a tip.

So, if the Seahawks win Sunday, they take everything. If they lose and the 49ers win, San Francisco wins the division. The Seahawks could fall as far as the No. 5 seed, if they don’t win Sunday.

Leave a comment Comments → 98
  1. boycie99 says:

    Dumb play by Atlanta needing a yard on 2nd-and-1 from the 10 with 1:10 remaining.
    I just hope the stars are not aligning for the Niners at the right time.

    Basically if we cant beat a 7 and 8 team at the CLink with whats on offer as the prize if we do, then this team isn’t as good as we thought.
    Any fan would have taken this back in August so now the players and coaches need to step up and get it done.

  2. MikeFromNewJersey says:

    I personally don’t think we use MikeRob enough or a second TE.. Todd I wish you had a chart showing how many plays we run with a second TE.. This year seems like we’re always in 3WR sets. Last year it seemed like either A. McCoy or MikeRob were always on the field with Z Miller.
    I also think we should max protect more on passing downs. I don’t know why we always go 5 wideouts when Russel doesn’t have time to throw.

  3. Dukeshire says:

    Seattle has had two opportunities to lock everything up, already, and failed. Here’s hoping third time’a a charm.

  4. SandpointHawk says:

    By the snap count it looks like we had 3 tackles in the whole game and only one guard…Seahawks need a proofreader on their staff….

  5. GeorgiaHawk says:

    What’s up with Carpenter, Only 15 snap counts? I thought this was supposed to be his break out year. Is he still too out of shape to play a full game or even half a game? Or is he injured?

  6. SeahawkFan12 says:

    Todd, thanks for the rundown on FB-to-Lynch-results. Interesting stuff.

    Sorry to be a ray of sunshine, but I’m with Pete; the sky is not falling. Yeah, everyone is uncomfortable right now, and if you have followed the team long enough (I can proudly say I’ve been a die-hard since ’76), it is easy to let memories of a painful past well up. However, I chose to focus on what needs to happen (the present…which is all anyone can do anything about), as opposed to what has happened (the past…which nobody can do anything about) and all the possible consequences, blah blah blah.

    I guess I’m a head-in-the-clouds, irrational dreamer, but I’m thinking Seattle wins BIG on Sunday.

  7. montanamike2 says:

    I also would like to see a comparison of Lynch with a fullback against strength of opponent “D”. The Rams are scary good and i hope their backup QB is overwhelmed at Clink, but i can’t help but feeling the Hawks play their best ball with a chip and their backs against the wall. I don’t think they will be lackadaisical like in the last few weeks. It’s not a given but i think we win on Sunday.

  8. montanamike2 says:

    Sorry SeahawkFan12 i posted at the same time as you, i’m a slow typer.

  9. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Big Red is mad so get out of his way if you can. Lol.

  10. Personally, I don’t see any way that Carpenter is with the Seahawks next year. Take his $1.4M salary and reinvest it in a new oline draft choice.

  11. For comparison, Bailey and Bowie COMBINED are about $1M next year.

  12. McQuistan is a free agent next year and unless he will play for much less than this years $3M – I think he is done as a Seahawk. Because he can play all four G and OT positions, he does offer some attractive flexibility. But again, only at a much reduced price.

  13. Seahawks22360 says:

    Let’s hope this week the play calling is effective. Against the cards there were zero or very few short yardage plays. I know pete said that was due to them playing their safeties up, but I don’t recall one dump pass to lynch on those blitz plays they were sending. There 21st even a threat of the read option.

  14. CDHawkFan says:

    Agree Blocis, I think the FO will want him to get quietly signed by someone else and walk away. I think he will be out of the NFL in about 1.5 – 2.5 years.

    I just don’t see the drive in him in his conditioning and effort on the field. I often see him either get a) whipped or b) quit on a play and then I see one of our guys (usually RW) take an unnecessary hit due to him giving up/not finishing. Someone will give him a contract because he was a 1st rounder that has some experience, but I see him getting hurt and not working his way back after cashing in one last time.

    Before you get pissed and defend that tub of butter because he is a Hawk, I would like to point out he has had his chance, he was a 1st rounder that is still over weight.

    Seems like everytime I felt good about a good ole’ ass whomping the Hawks barely win/or lose. Maybe its good that I am nervous about this week.

  15. montanamike2 says:

    I think Carpenter and McQuistan will be gone after this year. McQuistan is a jack of all trades but not particularly good at any one spot.

  16. Seahawks22360 says:

    Wasn’t*** not 21st lol

  17. montanamike2 says:

    When we drafted Carpenter i thought we had our “bookend” tackles for the next decade. Whenever i saw RW with a little time to throw he was tearing it up instead of running for his life. Okung is the real deal.

  18. Because of his versatility and experience I think McQuistan would be fine as a 7th oline (i.e. back-up to a back-up). But it would have to be at the veteran minimum $, not the $3M he made this season.

    Breno and Lemuel are also free agents after this season. I would be fine with both coming back.

  19. GeorgiaHawk says:

    The first hint that made me concerned about Carpenter was after the draft when he said he was surprised to be drafted so high.

    It sounded at first like he lacked confidence in his ability or at least questioned his ability but he really was telling the truth that he shouldn’t have been a first round pick so you can’t blame him for that but at least he could have shown better effort to stay in condition.

    I couldn’t believe when Carroll went against his whole compete philosophy and started Carpenter and Moffitt their rookie years when they were clearly overwhelmed, out of shape and just plain awful.

  20. “Basically if we cant beat a 7 and 8 team at the CLink with whats on offer as the prize if we do, then this team isn’t as good as we thought.”

    Yep, agreed. Can’t ask for a better situation to lock up HFA, and really if we can’t pull it off, knowing the situation/consequences, then we weren’t going to make the SB run we’ve all been hoping for anyway.

    Put me in the camp that thinks we pass the test on this one.

  21. I think the Seahawks need to open up the Offense and pass early to jump out to an early lead.

    The running game is ineffective against good run defenses. I don’t know if Lynch somehow is having difficulty reading the hole or lacking the burst to hit the hole. But either way they need to pass early.

    It’s not fair to the Defense the Seahawks are willing to burn the entire 1st quarter playing a silly field position game. It almost seems like if the Seahawks don’t blow a game open midway through the the second quarter through midway through the third quarter, it becomes a 50/50 game.

    I don’t have any confidence this Defense will hold a late game lead but I have all the confidence they can hold a 14 point lead at any point in the game.

    Please, no more Marty Ball. And if Kearse is hurt, play Lockette more.

  22. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I’m in the camp that thinks Super Bowl winning teams win on the road too.
    If that’s the way we have to do it then so be it. Remember we made a Super Bowl run on the road last year and came so close to the championship game.

    I think sometimes too much home cooking can make a team get a false sense of security.
    It’s always more fun for me to watch playoff teams go take care of business on the road.
    It seems like some Seahawk fans are ready to pack it in if we don’t get HFA.
    If we get it that’s great! If we don’t then we still have a chance to make a Super Bowl run.

  23. banosser says:

    Carp hopefully will be gone.. I don’t even want him back at the vet minimum

  24. banosser says:

    ^^ I have no idea how he even walks…

  25. Hammajamma says:

    I like the way the Ram game is set up as essentially a must win game against a dominant defense. With the opportunity to adjust their play after the Cardinal loss, you’ll know if you have a Super Bowl team or not.

  26. I’m not packing it in if we lose on Sunday. While I prefer the 1 seed, if its on the road we have to go – so be it. Bring it on. This team that plays tough defence and runs the ball is made to win on the road.

  27. Seeing too many here saying Lynch has lost a step, Lynch can’t see the holes any more or he cant make the moves he used to anymore.
    I call BS Lynch is not the problem it’s the O-Line (like it has been for several years now)and their failure to controll the line of scrimmage and open holes up. Also a fairly high amount of outside runs, which have never been his forte any way.

    Play calling is getting too predictable and/or simple, when FB in there they run same places and rarely throw it, or too often an empty backfield no chance of a run short of Russel taking it. Why don’t they put an extra O-lineman in there as an extra TE or FB to make some holes in short yardage? Where are the short, intermediate, crossing routes, the quick hitches, the change of directions, the double moves with a pump fake? no where and non existent!!! they just run all fly routes with Lynch or Turbin going to the same place on the field and can’t believe they were all covered or hope Russel can wing it in there for the big play. Too vanilla too predictable, come on Coach, you play to WIN the game and it’s time to pull out the stops and play to win.
    Need to sustain some drives stop the stupid penalties on both sides of the ball, blah blah blah same things over and over.
    Personally I don’t want to hear anything at all about Percy Stinking Harvin, just tired of the is he coming back oh he’s practicing wait psych no he’s not. Just tell us when they IR him or when he is actually on the going on playing list.
    Excited for Sunday when we go 1-0 for the True Championship Game.
    Season right now is 4 Games if we do what we know the Seahawks are capable of, so really it’s time for a 4 game winning streak, no more opportunities “bad games”
    GO HAWKS!!!

  28. montanamike2 says:

    Well said MauMau.

  29. Southendzone says:

    Why is it that nearly every other team in the league has a 6-8 yard slant pattern that they seem to be able to hit almost at will and our playbook somehow had that play removed by Tipper Gore’s censorship campaign?

    I even saw Kap hitting that pass last night.

    Boldin, 5th round pick, monster season, tougher than nearly anyone on the field.

    Harvin, 1st and 3rd pick, zero season, tougher than ??? (scientists are still searching for a life form that he’s tougher than)

    Boldin would be KILLING it for us this year if we made that pickup, not saying we could because it seems like a sympathy gift from harbaugh’s brother.

  30. 10 weeks into the season Lynch was either 1st or 2nd in the league in rushing – hard for me to believe he’s forgotten how to find the hole, and I don’t see that he’s lost his burst.

    But there’s no way around it – 5 weeks in a row now the run game has not been at its usual level of effectiveness. You can say teams are scheming against it, but I’m not sure I see that – certainly not since we’ve gotten our starting tackles back and they have to watch for the pass. I do tend to think its our line more than Marshawn, he still gets hit a ton behind or right at the line of scrimmage. But it’s an issue, our offense never really hums without some run game success.

  31. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Sometimes I wish Chip Kelly was running our offense.
    Imagine the numbers Wilson would be putting up if he played for the Eagles.

  32. Part of the Lynch falloff is the competition. His big ypc games have come against the teams ranked near the bottom in ypc allowed.

    The past month or so he has played teams ranked near the top of ypc allowed and it’s shown.

  33. Seahawks22360 says:

    I agree with the throwing the ball more mentality. When teams stack the box and stuff the run on 1st and 2nd down, we’re consistently facing 3rd and 5 or more situations. It’s almost as if Pete has put the training wheels back on. What happened to the end arounds, the full back screens, double passes etc… Pete said that the timing was off in the passing game. Well when you’re that predictable and teams know what’s coming, it makes it a lot easier for defenses to pin their ears back.

  34. I actually went back and checked the run pass ratio for the last game and it went around 67% pass which is very high for them. It just didn’t work out.

    I am wondering if the boost Kearse gave them after the Rice injury is now gone due to his ankle injury.

  35. Seahawks22360 says:

    I thought they threw the ball down field more than they needed to. Granted those are usually higher percentage plays for them. Those down field plays were just too predictable imo.

  36. The 2/3s ratio was consistent for most of the game.

  37. montanamike2 says:

    That gift that’s called Boldin would still be a Raven if not for that collusion. There’s no way we could have gotten him Anyways. I think Southendzone was saying the same thing. Then Harbaugh calls us “cheaters”. Were going to be on a roller coaster ride for a while because our division is now tough to beat. I think this is our year to shine and it took a sense of urgency after all the praise heaped upon us. If Harvin comes back for the playoffs it would be huge, if not I’ll continue resenting him for coming back too early because he wanted to show the Vikings “what they lost”.

  38. montanamike2 says:

    I never even took the ankle injury into consideration pabuwal.

  39. Southendzone says:

    Georgia, I was totally thinking that same thing about Chip Kelly.

    You know how Russell does a summer passing camp for kids? What if Bevell could go to a Chip Kelly offensive coordinator camp? Get a t-shirt, run some sprints, learn some new things.

  40. I don’t want to see Percy Harvin until next year…Let’s just IR him now and fill his spot with a practice squad player. Why? Because he hasn’t earned the right to call himself a Seahawk, play in the playoffs, and go to the Superbowl…

    I don’t want Harvin to take game time away from players who have contributed to the season we’ve put together…he doesn’t deserve it because he hasn’t practiced, played, or contributed to this team in any meaningful way. If I were the coach, and he all of a sudden got healthy, he wouldn’t be a starter this year, or get a significant number of plays, unless someone got hurt.

  41. Also…I’m disappointed that Sam Bradford and Jake Long are out…I want the Seahawks to earn their way to the Superbowl.

    I’m was rooting for the 49ers to beat the Falcons, and I’m glad they won. I don’t want the Seahawks getting the #1 seed because of a 49ers loss…I want them to compete with it all on the line…and take take the division and top seed.

    If they don’t, they’re still in the playoffs and that’s what really counts…

    If they blow it and have to take the long hard road to the Superbowl, so be it…if they’re the team they think they are, they’ll find a way to get there.

    If they get eliminated, this team will be better for it next year…and we’ll have another draft and offseason to fix problems, upgrade weaknesses, etc

  42. Carlsonkid says:

    Several comments here about Bevel’s questionable playcalling and Carpenter’s weight and poor play ; I’ve complained about both for a while now , especially Carpenter . He’s right about himself – he should’ve never been a first round pick and I lay that one at Cable’s feet . This team needs real help at guard and tackle in the draft next year ..

    Bevel gets away from the WCO he’s supposed to be running and throws downfield on 3rd downs too much . Where’s those intermediate routes over the middle with the slot receiver or tight end ? I’m all about taking shots downfield and Tate and Kearse usually come thru on those , but keep it simple on 3rd downs and just move the damn chains ! Reminds of the old OC Bates who loved to throw 20 yard ‘Go’ routes on 4th & 1 . Jeesh …

  43. It might be hard for a 5’10 and change QB to throw some of these routes you guys keep wanting to see.

  44. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’ve been a huge critic of Carp, but as much as I’d like to see that waste of roster space gone next year, I have my doubts that it will happen. He may completely suck no matter what position he plays, but the new CBA means all 1st round draft pick contracts are fully guaranteed. Since they’ll have to pay him next year anyway, they might be hoping he turns things around yet again. The only turning around he’ll do is if someone behind him mentions food.

  45. Carlsonkid,

    Exactly…the longer the throw, the lower completion percentage…way too many intermediate passes on short yardage downs.

    I wanted to see quick slants, short passes to the TEs, passes to the running backs, etc. Where were the tight ends on Sunday?

    Bevell knows that the Cards are a blitz happy team with back-up rookie safeties. It’s hard to understand why they weren’t able to exploit them.

  46. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I’ve been trying to stay optimistic with regards to Harvin but I’m starting to lose some hope.
    Imagine we could have used all that money and draft picks we gave away for Harvin on some O-lineman in the draft and in free agency this year to help make the O-line better.

  47. “I am wondering if the boost Kearse gave them after the Rice injury is now gone due to his ankle injury.”

    I think so — there was one replay I recall in particular where he was really limping heavily.

    and when you add a top-level CB like Peterson to take Tate out of things – it doesn’t leave all that much left. more throws to the RB’s and TE’s seems like part of a solution, but we never seem to do it very much.

  48. I guess this what you call a tipping point. Win on Sunday and the wheels are securely bolted on and the engine is purring…hey you might even get a jolt of high octane Percy Harvin (Ha). Lose on Sunday, play like we have in the last three weeks, and this has all the signs of becoming a fail of epic, legendary proportions…career altering stuff for coaches and players and front office guys. Stuff that years from now will be the cautionary tale of all such tales about not getting your hopes too high. One way or the other…I think the players should have no motivational needs this week. I suspect they are “skipping Christmas” this week.

    Percy, Percy, Percy Harvin. Even Aaron Curry is starting to look a little less bad in comparison. All hat and no cattle. I gotta think we’re not seeing him this year if he’s out this week. This is as close as you can get to one and out for this team this week. These guys can’t go on the road to the east coast again if they melt all the way down to wild card. I’m sure the front office is seeing if there are any unique ways to dump the guy at this point…as far out as that is.

  49. Before Harvin played in the Vikings game he practiced for several weeks.

    It has now been 6 weeks since he has practiced with no end in sight. He won’t take the field again this year.

    I’d like to see them work Lockette in more. I think he can be a game changer – but I’ve even saying this for years now.

  50. Any way Paul Allen could bribe Harvin into retiring?

    just kidding

  51. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Pabs-Be careful what you ask for with Lockette.

  52. thursday says:

    Waaaait a second, I went back in the archives and looked for Percy practicing and he didn’t practice until the week of the Vikings game. He had like, two limiteds and two full practices that week, something like that. But not several weeks. Unless you can show me something different.

  53. I’ll keep asking because I am sure I will like what I see when the time comes.

    The man is a playmaker, with great size, speed and hands. He’s made plays in the little time they have used him.

    If only Tate had Lockette’s size and speed he would be a top 5 WR.

  54. GeorgiaHawk says:

    There are many WRs like Lockette that are out of the NFL with size and speed and little between the ears when it comes to football smarts.

  55. Harvin stated practicing on October 21 but then was on and off until the week of the Vikings game.

    So maybe he can go on 1 week of practice but I don’t see even that happening anytime soon.

  56. thursday says:

    The thing that bothers me about this Percy thing and makes me think it’s not just cut and dry like it seems on the surface, is that he played that game full speed with nothing suggesting he had significant problems. And Carroll to me has been really evasive about his true condition since then.

    Like this quote from that top link:

    Asked if Harvin will return this week: “I don’t know,” Carroll said. “We’ll figure it out before long. I don’t have much to tell you about that right now.”

    Now, it could be the worst case scenario where there’s something seriously wrong, but that answer about him returning this week just sounds vague and noncommittal to me.

    In summation, I’m not sure what to think tbh, but I really doubt it’s what it appears to us on the surface. Something’s fishy here, but Idk what lol.

  57. thursday says:

    I agree with seeing more of Lockette though. I’ve liked what I’ve seen so far.

  58. GeorgiaHawk says:

    What we really need to see more is Luke Willson in the passing game. I think he was targeted only one time against Arizona.

  59. We’re officially at the point in the career of Carp where he can be classified as a bust. I was mad when they passed on Carimi (another bust) but then I was immediately happy with the Carpenter pick when I thought he was going to play LG from day one (then went back to being mad about the pick when they first tried him at RT). No matter who you are (aside from some QBs), you need to show something by the end of your third year or you’re pretty much garbage on the field (even if he may be a nice guy off of it).

    The first thing that worried me about Carp is when his college coach, Nick Saban, was utterly shocked that he went so high (and this was from a guy who had coached the Miami Dolphins not too long prior to that). He was even caught uttering a “wow” with a shocked look on his face (translation – the Seahawks made a stupid pick).

    Bowie played better this past Sunday than I have ever seen Carpenter look in any game the past three years.

    Pabs is right, Wilson is too short to take a 3-step drop and fire a slant. It’s just the way it is. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a great QB, there’s just simply some things he cannot do because of his height (that he more than makes up for in other areas – that’s why he’s still a great QB we’re thrilled to have) in a base situation.

    We can throw some slants in certain formations, no doubt, but in the wrong defensive front Wilson cannot throw those slants where a 6-4 type of guy could still make those throws.

  60. “I guess this what you call a tipping point. Win on Sunday and the wheels are securely bolted on and the engine is purring…hey you might even get a jolt of high octane Percy Harvin (Ha). Lose on Sunday, play like we have in the last three weeks, and this has all the signs of becoming a fail of epic, legendary proportions…career altering stuff for coaches and players and front office guys.”

    I half agree w/the above – I do think it’s something of a tipping point in the season – – but it’s not an epic legendary fail no matter what happens. This is Wilson’s 2nd year, he’s not going anywhere. And neither are Carroll and Schneider, regardless of what happens Sunday or in the post-season. This is a young team, built to compete for titles for the next 5 years at least. 1

  61. ChrisHolmes says:

    “Bevel gets away from the WCO he’s supposed to be running and throws downfield on 3rd downs too much.”

    To say Bevell runs a WCO is a misnomer. He doesn’t. So that little error of labeling needs to go away.

    I happen to like Bevell’s offense a lot. Up until last week we were the most efficient team throwing the ball beyond 10 yards. People certainly liked it when Wilson was burning the blitz for 49-yard gains on 3rd down.

    I think you all need to get some perspective. It was one bad game against a not-bad team. Seattle didn’t execute well. It happens. You want to burn Bevell for one bad game? Then you’re being irrational.

    I’m going to look at tape this week and go over the plays and do some analysis for ya’ll. I didn’t get a chance to see the game Sunday so I’m anxious to see what happened. But I suspect it has more to do with execution than the actual play calling.

    Something else to think about: We narrowly won games against the Texans, Rams and Bucs (a couple of those games we clearly got out-played and should have lost). We could easily be 9-6 right now instead of 12-3. There’s a very, very THIN line in this league between 9-6 and 12-3. Don’t kid yourselves into thinking differently. We’re fortunate to be where we are.

    And if you want to lay blame somewhere, blame the penalties. The refs continue to screw us, but on top of that we’re shooting ourselves in the foot way too often. It’s ridiculous. No team can win a Super Bowl with this many flags. Even if you take out the calls we get screwed on, we’re committing way too many penalties.

    The good news is, we’re still in control of our own destiny. That’s what you play for. Cross your fingers and hope this team sorts it out. We’ve played behind one of the worst OL’s in the league all year, and we have a bunch of WR’s who are clearly talented, but no elite. We’ve accomplished a lot with very little in a few places.

    Don’t get too high or too low after a game. We’re 12-3. We haven’t played well as of late, but these guys can still right the ship.

    We’re certainly not the “lock” that so many thought, but we’re not as bad as some think either. You can’t be a bad football team and go 12-3.

    Let’s just see what happens. We have some bonus games to play this year. That’s a good thing. Let’s see where it goes.

  62. Agreed. This will be a collapse of epic proportions if they lose 3-4 to end the year and give up home field advantage. The only way they could save face with a “collapse” like that is to go on the road and end up winning the Super Bowl.

    However, I think they beat the Rams and it’s all sunshine, popsicles, and rainbows around here for the next few weeks. It’s not gonna be easy though.

    I don’t feel bad the Rams don’t have Long or Bradford. It’s football. Do the Rams feel bad that we won’t be playing Rice, Harvin, or KJ Wright? Or even possibly Okung? Injuries are part of football.

  63. chuck_easton says:

    Harvin played in the only important game for him. He got to show his old team they made a mistake. Now he can take his guaranteed millions and not have to even break a sweat let alone a fingernail.

    He won’t be on the field again this season. There is nothing structurally wrong with the hip. Percy doesn’t ‘do pain’. Never has. Sure he started a bunch of games for the Vikings. But go back and look at how many he didn’t finish.

  64. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Are we the only team in the NFL with three undrafted WRs and two of them starting?

    Seems like at the start of camp WR was one of our best and deepest position groups.
    Now with Kearse hobbling a bit it looks like one of the worst and thinnest WR groups in the NFL.

    Things change fast in the Not For Long league.

  65. Career altering probably sounded harsher than I meant it, pdway, perhaps just say such a meltdown would be a career milepost type of event.

  66. Chris – when you’re rewatching the game, look at RG too. Let me know what you think.

    Although our OL sucked as a whole, I saw good play from Bowie. I rewatched more but now have only not seen most of the 3rd quarter… but over the 3 full quarters I’ve seen [watched all the 2nd earlier], we seem to have a very good RG on our team – kind of like when Sherman was buried on the depth chart a few years ago and got to play only because the supposedly better players, that weren’t better, got hurt in Trufant and WTIII. I’m not going to say Bowie is going to be an All Pro like that, but from what he showed there the other day – dang, that was a good, solid debut for him at RG. I hope they go with him at RG because even though Sweezy has been improving, I don’t remember Sweezy having as good of a game at RG as Bowie had in his one start there.

  67. montanamike2 says:

    Bobby i wanted Carimi too. I think both Bowie and Baily are future upgrades on the line.

  68. WilliamPercival says:

    ChrisHolmes- Well said.

  69. GeorgiaHawk says:

    BobbyK- Here is what Pro Football Focus said about Bowie-

    – “Michael Bowie started at right guard for the first time all season, played every snap, and graded in the green. It’s getting tougher and tougher to keep him off the field.”

    If Bowie is the better player than Sweezy he needs to be in there. Especially if he can play every snap.

    He at least needs to be starting somewhere on the O-line.

  70. ChrisHolmes says:

    I will definitely take a look at the OL, because it’s critical to the success of the offense.

    When I did analysis early in the season (when most of the hang-wringing on this board was happening), what I saw as an offense that was significantly handicapped by the OL play. I’m betting some of that came into play on Sunday as well. But if Bowie is playing well at RG, that bodes well for the playoffs. It also means it could potentially be one LESS OL we have to worry about drafting next spring. We already know we need a LG and RT. Having to find three OL in a draft is a tough proposition, as we’ve already seen.

  71. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I’m not a football fan of Moffitt’s, but when it comes to eating and drinking I can’t lie, we share similar habits.

  72. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Some folks think the Seahawks are still the best team in the NFL-

  73. I just realized that the vacation my wife booked starts on February 1st – the day before the Superbowl. Chances of seeing the game live; practically zero. UNBELIEVABLE. :(

  74. chuck_easton says:

    I wanted desperately to support Carp. I wanted to believe the slow start was due to the injuries. But the facts are too obvious for even me to overlook. The guy is fate, lazy and totally unmotivated. He has eaten his way out of the NFL.

    We won’t be signed by Seattle after his rookie contract. He may get picked up by some team desperate for linemen, but his days as an NFL player are numbered. He will have nobody to blame but himself.

    Hey if my employer wanted me to look like Arnold, the younger years, and was paying me very well to do nothing but work out and be in shape I would be at the gym 8 hours a day.

  75. chuck_easton says:

    Good news is that since Carpenter was a late first rounder only the first three years of his contract was guaranteed. Team can cut him after this season with very little dead money.

  76. chuck_easton says:

    Another interesting thing came out of yesterday’s chat. Someone commented that Rice is on the sidelines every game and asked if Harvin was as well.

    Dave Boling commented that Harvin isn’t around at all. Doesn’t come to the games and isn’t in the locker room or available to reporters.

    Rice is the better team mate and I would not at all be surprised to see Rice back next season. I hope to see Harvin next season. And I’ll be one of the first to say I don’t expect to see Tate next year as someone will offer him the money that Seattle can’t or won’t.

  77. thursday says:

    Probably in the minority, but I really hope we find a way to keep Tate. I don’t think we’ve seen his ceiling yet.

  78. GeorgiaHawk says:

    That makes me mad that Harvin can’t at least be showing up at practice or the games for support of the team.

  79. chuck_easton says:


    I want the team to keep Tate. Just not sure if they can given how much money they have tied up in Harvin.

    I fully expect Rice to agree to a contract restructure as he seems to want to be here.

  80. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I hope the leaders of this team step up and put Harvin on the spot and tell him either you are all in or you are all out.

    We don’t need this crap heading into the playoffs.

  81. I agree with the comment about where are our 6-8 yard slants and outs? I sometimes wonder if it is because RW does not have the height to get it over the OL when the receiver is just a few yards beyond. Whatever the reason, it seems to be a sorely needed element of this offense.

    As far as WR quality – the play of the 49ers has gone up a lot since they got Crabtree back. It shows the value of a reliable target. I think we are feeling the absence of Rice and the other guy whose name I forget.

  82. MoSeahawk12 says:

    It’s interesting how many of you have all this animosity towards Harvin. Pete and John wanted the guy, they made a trade for him and offered him the current contract that he agreed to. All parties participated in this deal. Would any of you turn down the deal if you were Percy? That’s what I thought. He had an injury and had major surgery in August. That’s only four months ago. Coach Pete has basically said it’s a medical issue and it’s on the team trainers to decide when he’s ready to play. It’s not Percy saying he’s not going to play. His teammates like and respect the guy and if he was a lazy dog, it would have come out from at least one of these guys by now. This team went far last year and will go even further this year without him anyway. Pete and John went after and signed him knowing there is always a risk with signing any player. For so many to feel the need to call him out is just odd. He’s not making the call. Do you really think if he wasn’t doing the right stuff and working to get healthy that Pete would keep him around? Pete has cut plenty of star players due to effort, attitude and performance over the past four years. Granted, they gave him a big guaranteed amount, but lets hold off before we declare the guy a lazy bum just yet. He’s on the team for a reason and will be for many seasons. He wasn’t just brought in as a one year wonder to magically fix everything and win the Super Bowl. This team has been built for the long hall, not to be all or nothing for one season.

  83. montanamike2 says:

    Thursday i want Tate and Baldwin back. I understand Harvin being injured and not able to play, but what was up with the Vikings game? Right now i’m kind of pissed, moreso if we lose Tate or Baldwin because of this.

  84. Pete Carroll considering putting PH on IR. What a waste Pete. U always finding away to screw us fans. With bad play calling and bad o line and now with PH. Seahawk friends do you see his stuff with PC around this what we are going to get from him.

  85. Dukeshire says:

    I find the animosity a bit odd too. I presume it’s simply misdirected frustration. Because otherwise what people are really saying is that he is intentionally choosing to not play and I’ve hear no evidence to support that.

    I think we can all agree that this anemic offence needs a boost and his playmaking ability in the worst way.

  86. GeorgiaHawk says:

    MoSeahawk12- How do you know his teammates like and respect him? They certainly won’t tell the media if they don’t.

    If it’s true that he can’t at least show up in support of his team at practice and/or games then I doubt he will have respect from his teammates. At least the ones that are all in.

    I hope we are all wrong about him but I get the feeling that he is a me first player.

  87. Dukeshire says:

    Carroll is always finding a way to screw us? lol.

  88. it’s true, Carroll has totally screwed us into being fans of a super bowl contender. f-ing guy.

  89. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Yes, Carroll has screwed us by building the most complete team and getting us into the playoffs three out of the past four seasons. He keeps screwing us by drafting great players and designing a defense that they thrive in. That would be our #1 ranked defense. He really screwed us last year when the team went 11-5 and won a road playoff game for the first time since 1983. He continues to deeply screw us by coaching this years team to the NFL’s best record at 12-3. Here’s a good math screw for you…That’s 23-8 regular season record the past two seasons not counting playoffs, with the 24th win coming this week. That compares to the top of the league.

    You wanna get screwed, re watch Holmgrens last few seasons and Mora’s first and thankfully only season.
    I’ll save you the math. Holmgren and Mora combined to win a total of 9 games or one more than Carroll has lost in his last two seasons. There’s plenty of other teams that would gladly screw you. Try one out.

  90. sluggo42 says:

    Does anyone wonder why I post less and less? Good grief!

  91. “Does anyone wonder why I post less and less? Good grief!”

    Not in the least, sluggo.

    I just love it when keyboard jockeys come on here and criticize NFL players for their supposed lack of toughness. When have you ever been hit by 300 pound NFL players and played through the pain and injuries? Oh yeah, that’s right. NEVER! It’s real easy to criticize them behind the safety of a keyboard and maintain your little fantasy that you would be tougher than Ronnie Lott out there. Just give it a rest.

    And I also love the idea that you’d workout 8 hours a day if this, that, and the other. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts then we’d all have a Merry Christmas. Keep telling yourself that fantasy. It appears that maybe Carp lost the motivation to be in shape once paid, but he was in better shape than probably anyone on here before he was being paid. I’m not making an excuse for Carp, but cut the crap about what you would’ve done. You didn’t, and it didn’t happen.

  92. “Pete Carroll considering putting PH on IR. What a waste Pete. U always finding away to screw us fans. With bad play calling and bad o line and now with PH. Seahawk friends do you see his stuff with PC around this what we are going to get from him.”

    Consider the source, consider the lack of coherency, and consider his other posts. This nonsense should be less than surprising.

  93. HeinieHunter says:

    WE do not need to know about Harvin! Any good coach is not going to show his cards to the rest of the league. Keep everyone guessing about whether they will see Harvin or not. Why would the Hawks tip their hand on his condition? Maybe he is getting close or maybe he’s done for the season. Either way it’s best that only the team knows for sure.

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