Seahawks Insider

Morning Links: As Harvin turns

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Dec. 11, 2013 at 12:39 am with 104 Comments »
December 11, 2013 12:39 am
The Seahawks are still wondering the will-he or won't-he stages with Percy Harvin. / AP photo
The Seahawks are still wondering the will-he or won’t-he stages with Percy Harvin. / AP photo

Good morning.

Anyone want to talk kick returning?

Well, let’s turn to a topic that may unify the blog: Percy Harvin returing kicks would be beneficial for the Seahawks.

Our Dave Boling wrote about the Harvin situation for today’s paper. From Boling:

As the computer gnomes decipher the playoff scenarios with three games remaining, a critical element of the odds for the Seahawks relies on an unknown variable.

Percy Harvin’s hip.

The receiver/returner has played in only one game (Minnesota) this season after Aug. 1 hip surgery, and his impact was obvious and immediate.

But after that game, Harvin has gone back into the sort of mysterious rehabilitation-limbo mode that has been the norm this season.

We’ll have a status update as early as Wednesday. And if he can work his way back on the field, even in limited capacity, it could further tip the field for the Seahawks down the stretch.

Yes, Seattle has been sensational in his absence, with only Denver matching the Seahawks’ win total. So, they might win the whole thing whether Harvin makes it back or not.

But remember his brief appearance against Minnesota, when he pulled in a finger-tip 17-yard reception on a crucial third down, and also ran back a kickoff 58 yards.  How much difference would a timely third-down catch and a big kick return have made in the game at San Francisco? Huge. Possibly enough to swing the game in favor of the Seahawks, instead of it resulting in a 19-17 loss that prolongs Seattle’s questions on playoff positioning.  

As Boling mentioned, the Seahawks are hoping Harvin is back at practice Wednesday. That was also the hope prior, but didn’t happen. Once again, he will not be pushed considering how well the Seahawks are playing and the long-term investment they have in Harvin.

One quick news note: San Francisco signed offensive lineman Ryan Seymour off the Seahawks practice squad.

“We got home late Sunday and my agent called at 6 a.m.,” Seymour told the Sacramento Bee. “I made the same flight 24 hours later.”

There’s also a report that the Seahawks have signed linebacker Mike Taylor from Wisconsin to the practice squad. Pete Carroll mentioned Monday that they would have to “get someone off the street” to fill out the depth at linebacker with the injury to K.J. Wright.

Links:

> Seahawks fullback Derrick Coleman met with Tacoma kids Tuesday. Coleman, who is hard of hearing, met with deaf and hard-of-hearing kids in the library at Baker Middle School in Tacoma.

> 710 ESPN looks at rookie tight end Luke Willson. It will be interesting to see if the Seahawks have enough faith him in to part ways with Zach Miller and open up some cap space in the offseason. Miller is a $7 million cap hit next year. One thing to note with his contract is it’s inverted. His cost goes down annually. His costliest year is this season. He’s a free agent in 2016.

> At Seahawks.com, the focus is on the playoff picture.

> Some more on Willson at Seahawks.com.

> Here’s a look at this weekend’s scenarios that would allow the Seahawks to claim homefield in the playoffs.

> From the Giants.com blog, 10 things to know about the game.

> This isn’t specific to the Seahawks, but says the Mariners have a big challenge ahead of them bringing back fans in a town dominated by Seahawks and Sounders interest.

> Greg Bedard with his breakdown of decisive moments in Week 14.

Leave a comment Comments → 104
  1. mquinn73 says:

    Part company with Miller?!?! No way, the guy is an integral part of this offense. Luke Willson has potential for sure, but at present he’s a poor in-line blocker and he’s still learning his way in the passing game. Miller sacrificed numbers (albeit, he was getting paid handsomely…) to aid this team’s development by blocking more than he ever had to in Oakland – and he’s a clutch player (remember how he kept the chains moving down in the Atlanta game last year). For my money, Zach is one of the best in the game at his position, and you can never have enough high quality players.

    As for Harvin – Boling’s comment about “mysterious rehabilitation-limbo” is on the money. I’m not saying that the trade was a bad move (yet) but there was a reason that Minnesota let him go for a 1st, 3rd & 7th pick. It’s great having a “game-changer” on the roster, but only if he can actually get on the field consistently. Right now, I’m starting to worry that we’ve got a high priced super car that needs to be so finely tuned that it’s not actually capable of doing much driving.

  2. montanamike2 says:

    I like the way you address the questions we have from previous posts Todd, you actually interact with us, that’s cool.
    Willson has a promising career and may have some of Millers blocking and other little things in the future, but as it stands, Miller’s salary is structured so he got most of his money front loaded making him an extremely good value for the next few years. If McCoy comes back we’ll have a well rounded TE core. Harvin…come on man it’s almost playoff time and you need to get on the field. I hope Pete/John draft a big WR this year.

  3. MikeFromNewJersey says:

    Mike Taylor appears to have a nice resume, he was first team Big Ten the last few years.

  4. chuck_easton says:

    Who is this Harvin you speak of?

    Cutting Miller only saves 5 million against the cap. There would be 2 million in dead money.

    Other players to consider for cutting/re-structuring that would give more in cap space without giving up valuable production.

  5. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Agree montanamike2 with what you said about Todd.
    I also get the feeling Todd won’t take much crap from folks here that try and abuse him with their posts. Must be the Hockey side of him coming out. Lol.

    BTW- It feels like Montana Weather today, (23 degrees) and there is no hot springs to be found. Lucky you.

  6. montanamike2 says:

    It’s actually warming up a bit now, i’m still on vacation from the hot springs until more of the weirdos are gone which should be soon.

  7. chuck_easton says:

    Same here Montana. We went from -29c with a wind chill of -39c last week to a balmy -5c yesterday. Of course as soon as it warmed up the snow started to fall again.

    Montana residents and those of us North of the Border can confirm there is such a phenomenon of it being too cold to snow.

  8. chuck_easton says:

    For an English to American translation, -29c is -17F. -39c is -39F (they synch back up at -40). And -5c is a toasty warm 23F.

  9. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Lol, getting too cold for them so they have to migrate back to California?

  10. chuck_easton says:

    Heck no! California is too expensive and crowded.

    Snow Birds migrate to Phoenix from Western Canada and Florida from Eastern Canada!

    Watch any Coyotes/Panthers/Lightning vs. a Canadian hockey team game in February and you will notice that half the crowd in attendance is wearing the sweater of the Canadian team.

  11. chuck_easton says:

    And I slightly exaggerated -39c is only -34.4F. But -40 is -40 regardless of where you are.

  12. GeorgiaHawk says:

    We need to watch out for Justin Tuck Sunday. He has 7 sacks in the last two games.
    And the NY Defense ranks #10.
    I just hope Manning has another poor game otherwise we may be in for a dog fight.
    Getting turnovers and good special teams play will help a lot.

  13. montanamike2 says:

    Funny you mention that, every year a bunch of Californians move here in the summer and then move back the following spring, some stay though.
    Chuck it only snows when it warms up- dead on.

  14. chuck_easton says:

    True blocis. I think McKoy’s return would be more likely in jeopardy than Miller’s.

    Cut Miller and he doesn’t get paid that 4.8. But with the 2 million dead money (prorated remaining portion of signing bonus) you only save 5 million on the cap.

    Then you have to go out and try and sign a starting Calibre TE. If you look at 2013 Salaries for starting TE’s Miller’s 7.8 this year only puts him at 10th highest. His salary of 4.8 next year drops him into the bottom half of compensation for a starter.

    I agree with Todd’s thoughts though. The question isn’t whether Miller should stay or go. The question is will Willson have improved enough to assume that starters role? Any player and any contract is expendable when the player can be replaced by a younger/cheaper option.

    I don’t think Willson is ready YET to be the starter. Maybe after an off-season with the team and if he beats Miller out in camp the team pulls the chord on Miller.

    But as long as Miller continues to prove he’s the #1 his contract isn’t out of line.

  15. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’ve been hammered about mentioning Miller as a potential cap casualty since Harvin was signed and people are still in denial it could happen. The reality is that move was purely a win now move, but it also means more pressure for young guys on their rookie contacts to step up and start in the future. Still not a fan of the Harvin trade, but not angry about it either. If he contributes in the playoffs and they win a Lombardi, he’ll have done what he was brought in to do.

  16. sluggo42 says:

    Mccoys return will make the TE position one of strength for sure, ESP. With Willson’s growth.

    I wonder about Turbos future with cristin in the wings, or will Beast be the eventual casualty?

    I’m getting ready to head out to the golf course but it’s totally freezing, only 45*! But it should be 55 within the hour so maybe I’ll have another cup of coffee. Probably only get to 70* today, so I might need to keep the sweater on for the whole front 9. Good Lord!

  17. chuck_easton says:

    RDPoulsbo,

    Don’t you think we’ve reached the point that hoping and praying Harvin comes ‘back’ at any point is similar to praying your ex-wife comes to her senses and returns all the property? Especially the dog? It MIGHT happen.

    I’m just resigned to the idea that Harvin should/might/could/may/possibly will be healthy come training camp.

    If he manages to get on the field at all for any portion of the remainder of this season, it’s a bonus.

    I’ve had my aneurism over Harvin and I’m at peace. Let’s just move on and accept we won’t see him. At least I will. Now, time to go to my happy place where no thoughts of #11 exist.

  18. My guess – Miller’s contract will get reworked, not terminated.

    Guess #2 – McCoy will be offered a new, short low $ contract.

    I think the Seahawks should be active in the FA and draft TE market.

  19. chuck_easton says:

    sluggo,

    Your second option is where my thoughts are. Lynch’s contract is up after 2015.

    But the contract is structured so that Lynch gets 5 million base with 500,000.00 bonus if he’s on the roster in 2014.

    2015 is the telling year. 5 million base salary with 2 million roster bonus. If Lynch is on the roster in 2015 and starts every game he gets 7 million.

    I absolutely LOVE Lynch. But he’s at the end of the contract, and he’s approaching that magic age of 30 years old where NFL RB’s start to show signs of wear and tear.

    My bet would be Lynch is gone in 2015 or potentially next year.

  20. RDPoulsbo says:

    If Seattle were 8-5 and struggling for a playoff spot, I’d be more angry. As of now, they are in a comfortable position headed for HFA. I’ll go on my rant if he doesn’t show up for January, but for now, I’m choosing not to be stressed about it.

    Still, no one can deny Harvin’s contract complicates the ability of keeping guys when their rookie contracts come up.

  21. Sorry, on my previous post I missed Kellen Davis

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/kellen-davis/

  22. Lynch is a more or less reasonable $7M in 2014. This becomes a not so reasonable $9M in 2015. My guess is Lynch is not a Seahawk in 2015.

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/marshawn-lynch/

  23. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’m not sure that Turbin and Michael can replace Lynch next year. Lynch forces defenses to go with 7 and 8 in the box, opening things in the passing game. Those guys don’t scare anyone like that. Perhaps a high pick in 2014 or 2015 could replace him, but as of now, Michael is a waste.

  24. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Will the Giants come out swinging? Or will they give up?

    Probably a little of both.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/coughlin-giant-effort-rest-article-1.1542836

  25. Michael is not a waste – and neither is Tharold Simon. Their time will come. Think of them as extra draft picks for next year.

  26. Here is a list of all 2014 free agent TE’s

    Tony Gonzalez UFA ATL 37 $5,250,000
    Jake Ballard UFA ARI 25 $296,470
    Jim Dray UFA ARI 26 $642,250
    Jeff King UFA ARI 30 $1,883,334
    Kory Sperry UFA ARI 28 $715,000
    Chase Coffman UFA ATL 27 $630,000
    Dennis Pitta UFA BAL 28 $2,023,000
    Dallas Clark UFA BAL 34 $620,000
    Ed Dickson UFA BAL 26 $1,323,000
    Mike Caussin RFA BUF 26 $358,000
    Scott Chandler UFA BUF 28 $2,975,000
    Ben Hartsock UFA CAR 33 $620,000
    Dante Rosario UFA CHI 29 $555,000
    Alex Smith UFA CIN 31 $620,000
    Brandon Pettigrew UFA DET 28 $3,470,000
    Jermichael Finley UFA GB 26 $8,750,000
    Andrew Quarless UFA GB 25 $1,368,606
    Garrett Graham UFA HOU 27 $750,025
    Clay Harbor UFA JAC 26 $630,000
    Allen Reisner RFA JAC 25 $555,000
    Dustin Keller UFA MIA 29 $4,250,000
    Michael Hoomanawanui UFA NE 25 $630,000
    Matthew Mulligan UFA NE 28 $672,941
    D.J. Williams UFA NE 25 $97,941
    Jimmy Graham UFA NO 27 $1,489,285
    Brandon Myers UFA NYG 28 $1,125,000
    Bear Pascoe UFA NYG 27 $892,500
    Jeff Cumberland UFA NYJ 26 $1,323,000
    Konrad Reuland ERFA NYJ 26 $417,529
    Kellen Winslow UFA NYJ 30 $424,412
    Jeron Mastrud UFA OAK 25 $630,000
    Michael Palmer UFA PIT 25 $630,000
    Kellen Davis UFA SEA 28 $672,941
    Anthony McCoy UFA SEA 25 $656,212
    Demarcus Dobbs RFA SF 26 $526,519
    Mike McNeill RFA STL 25 $555,000
    Kyle Adams UFA TB 25 $163,235
    Nate Byham RFA TB 25 $373,764
    Fred Davis UFA WAS 27 $2,500,000

  27. I’m interested in how Lynch does on Sunday. His production has fallen off dramatically the last 3 games. SF is a good run defense but the Vikings and Saints are not.

    He already has 7 games below a 4.0 ypc average this year compared to just 3 all of last year. And his production has taken a dive with the entire starting OL back.

  28. chuck_easton says:

    We agree blocis. The team was stacked this year. It was going to be impossible for ANY rookie to break into the starting lineup if they made the team at all.

    Good year to use the draft picks to get the pieces in place for 2 or 3 years down the road when there is a good chance that the team will either release or be unable to re-sign some of the big named starters now.

    It will be a luxury to plug Michael in as the starter in 2015 or 2016. He will have several years in the system and he won’t have the wear and tear on his body.

    I’m one of those who believes you don’t start a rookie unless they are the second coming of Unitas, Gayle Sayers, Jerry Rice, or such. The game at the NFL level is so much faster and there is so much more to know than at the college level where you have the superstars (the guys that are going to go to the NFL and play with all the other superstars) and hundreds of ‘others’.

    Every player that makes it to the NFL, even the role player, journeyman type, was the star on their college team.

  29. RDPoulsbo says:

    Michael is a waste. A 2nd round pick that can’t block, so he sits behind Turbin and only plays in garbage time. Meanwhile, they had known issues on the O-line that went unaddressed.

    Simon was a lower pick where you’d expect some development time, so the jury well continue to be out with him.

  30. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I think Unger and his lingering injuries has a little to do with Lynch’s falloff in production.
    Unger isn’t that physical even when healthy.

    There’s really only one starter on the o-line that is capable of playing at a high level in both the run blocking and pass protecting (imo) and that is Okung.

  31. yankinta says:

    Agree with those that says re-work Miller or cut him. I’d love it since Miller shouldn’t be making 7 Mil next year with his type of production. We need that money to extend our own guys. Luke Willson is a Steal, just as I thought,, :) Now we can go and draft someone with high ceiling with our 2nd round or 4th round pick. I really wanted Reed too but Redskins drafted him ahead of us, and he’s also another TE steal (although 4th round).

    No Thanks to McCoy, unless he takes the minimum and compete for a roster spot…..

  32. This isn’t 1985 with no salary cap and restricted FA. If your draft picks don’t contribute within the first 1-2 years then you’ve either just developed someone else’s talent or you blew a chance at cheap labor. And I know Chuck loves the concept of cheap labor lol.

  33. If/when Harvin gets back, the Michael as KR chatter ends and rightfully so. Of course if/when Harvin comes back and if he gets hurt, we’ll be in the same conundrum.

    And once again Todd, you’re doing a great job with this blog now that it’s ‘yours’, but the headline is still a little deceiving from what was talked about yesterday.

    It was Michael as a KR, Michael as a change of pace RB and only 1 first down via rushing versus SF. I’m still waiting to learn a little bit more about the last one.

    One final thing…our rush defense. It has floundered in the 2nd half of the year for 2 years in a row. Maybe it’s just Gore, or maybe Zac Stacey and Mike James will turn out to be household names, but IMO…the playoffs come down to who can stop the ball and who can rush the ball. Lynch has been off lately. I’m not saying he’s done. I’m not calling for his job in any way shape or form. Nor do I think our #1 defense suddenly blows.

    But…if we go to New York and Andre Brown/Payton Hillis run wild while Lynch averages less than 4.0 YPC, I won’t have to mention it next week…there will be plenty of others.

    I still believe in this team obviously and especially as long as #3 is back there, but between above mentioned, defensive discipline and maturity, no go to WRs and a simple plan as to put 8-9 in the box, keep R Dub in the pocket and dare him to beat opposing clubs, there is still a lot of work to do.

    Once again…this week is the most important game of the year. Here’s to going 1-0.

    GO HAWKS!

  34. Seahawkfan78 says:

    RDPoulsbo, where is your proof that he Michael cant block? I havent seen or read this.

  35. So RG3-n-out is OUT in WA (well at least for this week) will be inactive this week and Cousins gets the start. Rex Grossman will be the back-up!

  36. chuck_easton says:

    pabs,

    Yep, I love cheap labor! Well, I’m more management, but same thing.

    Miller getting paid 4.8 million next year isn’t a big hit. He’s not getting paid 7 million, that is his cap hit. And if he’s cut his cap hit is still 2 million.

    The team could possibly re-structure the base salary in the form of some type of bonus that doesn’t effect the long term. Could easily save close to the 5 million that cutting him would give.

  37. chuck_easton says:

    Seahawksfan78,

    Pete Carroll has said as much. Michael isn’t playing because he needs to learn how to do more than just run the ball. Pete’s words.

    The knock is he can’t block, isn’t able to pick up the blitz, and can’t or won’t play on ST.

  38. I think any and every guy on this team -NOT ON A ROOKIE CONTRACT. Could be in danger of being a cap casualty. We have seen it a few times with the Twins that they don’t always make the move we expect.

    If they think they can get your production from someone else – then I am sorry but you are gone. This next off season we will see how these guys operate in a new stage of managing the team. They know how to build a team from the bottom up. but can they maintain a team at the top. It is not a super simple thing to do.

    I tend to think they will because of the players we have drafted – With that being said, I would like to see more impact, year in – year out, from the guys they draft in the top 2 rounds. But on the whole I have been pretty darn happy with they way they have drafted.

  39. bird_spit says:

    I’m so very happy we avoided RG3, but shanahan hasn’t manged him right. Shanahan will be out of DC because of it. I can’t imagine Pete Carroll making that mistake. They should have sat rg3 until he was right, much like hawks sitting harvin.

  40. chuck_easton says:

    Why is it so difficult for people to read between the lines on Michael?

    This is Pete Carroll running the show. The guy that has no problem playing the best players without care if they are a rookie or a vet, if they were drafted in the 1st round 7th round or were undrafted, who has no problem starting the guy making 500k over the guy making 15 million.

    Everyone keeps saying how explosive he is with the ball. OK, then why has the guy that would play my teenager if he thought it would be the best for the team only chosen to have Michael active for 4 games out of 13? Why has Michael only appeared in 3 of those four games he was active? Why has he only had 18 carries on the season?

    Something is happening behind the scenes. Either there is an attitude problem, the player isn’t able to grasp the system, or the player just isn’t good enough.

  41. I’m wondering if Lynch has slowed down due to injury and running style and if they will need Michael producing in the Playoffs to remain an effective offense.

    The Seahawks final 4 opponents are in the top 8 in ypc allowed. We’ll find out soon enough.

  42. It must be because Pete is Bat Crap Crazy ;) no way he could know what he is doing.
    I mean come on, who picks up and plays:

    1. a DB that was coached by your arch nemisis in college – and said nemisis won’t touch him.
    2. a under height QB when you signed a high $ QB that same off season.
    3. A defensive lineman to convert to OG
    4. An injured player or 3 to stash on the IR or PUP list for a year.
    5. a RB who had trouble with the law and the team where he was previously playing

    yada, yada, yada . . . . . .

    The guy is unconventional for sure – but by God it is working for this team!!

  43. GeorgiaHawk says:

    OK,
    If folks keep wanting to discuss things that are unrelated and/or meaningless to the goals right in front of us, like playing the Giants, or (like the five most important things that Chuck posted Monday) then I have no choice but to start a Russell Wilson MVP discussion.
    Lol.

  44. START IT – or not :)

  45. What happened to the great TE discussion that seemed to be brewing?

    I have no problem with Anthony McCoy coming back for a short term low $ contract.

    I think Brandon Pettigrew or Jimmy Graham would look terrific in Seahawk blue and green. Dustin Keller, Jermichael Finley….. lots of FA TE options. Or we can just pay Miller.

  46. Seahawkfan78 says:

    Chuck, I didnt read that when PC said that stuff about Michael. IMO, PC thinks there is no real reason to play Michael until either Lynch or Turbo gets hurt. So might as well keep him on the bench until something like that happens.

  47. What do people think about Pitta?

  48. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I was just kidding about the Wilson MVP talk because I don’t want him to win it.

    One thing for sure with regards to this blog, it difficult for many of us here to stay focused for long, (including myself). I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not? Perhaps a balance of the two is best.

    Just a reminder of our priorities again from Chuck.

    “The focus and path is now set for this team.

    1. Clinch Division (2 wins or 1 win and an SF loss)
    2. HFA (13 wins guarantees HFA)
    3. Playoff home games and wins
    4. SB appearance
    5. SB trophy to Seattle.

    Not a time to think about anything but number 1 on the list. Just the check sheet. Can’t get to 5 without completing steps 1-4 in order.”

    That was Chuck Easton btw and not Chuck Knox. At least I think it wasn’t Chuck Knox.

  49. yankinta says:

    blocis,, I agree with you on McCoy coming back with minimum contract.

    I would not want us to keep Miller when we can save 5 Million in Cap $$. I’d rather use that to extend our own guys or sign Walter Thurmond. Miller’s numbers aren’t good enough and we saw how slow he was during the Saints game. He’s not what I consider Elite level (top 5) or even Top 10 TE in the league. I would rank him top 15 to top 20 TE in the league, both blocking and pass catching. Top 20 TE’s should not count 7mil against the Cap.

    Luke Willson is a Steal, just as I said from Day one…. Much better than Vance McDonald, which most experts gave 49ers a ton of credit for. We will draft another TE in 2014 draft.

  50. SlickToxic21 says:

    Again, a fair amount of criticism about an 11-2 team, that is ranked #1 in almost every national poll. We are in unchartered territory, us Seahawks fans….maybe we just don’t know how to handle “success”.
    It’s crazy, all of the 2nd guessing, and “sky is falling” routines that this board goes through after losses, or unimpressive showings.
    I do know that I will be physically and emotionally “content” once we get our 1st ever Super Bowl. It’s been a long 37-year ride, that hopefully ends this year.

    They are going to have a LOT of tough decisions to make after this year…which is why I am so invested in them winning the big one THIS year. Then all the tough moves won’t be as big a deal.

    I think that to have Miller and Willson on the roster next year, takes away the need to find a TE high up in the draft. Agree with whoever said that Miller has been very underrated for us! Toatlly sacrificing stats to stay in and block…but comes up big when called upon.

    Lynch will be 28 next year, and should still be a huge part of this team…..he really allows Wilson to be Wilson. Just like Thomas allows their CB’s to play man, and do what they do best.

    There are several options, as far as cutting, re-negotiating, drafting, re-signing……..but there won’t be any major FA signings next year.
    My guess would be cutting or letting go of Clem, Browner, Robinson, Rice, Thurmond, Farwell, McQ, Giacomini…and ??
    Probably 1 more year with Lynch, Red, ??
    And hopefully they find a way to get Bennett back…he and Avril have been huge this year.
    THEN they’ll have to decide who they will keep among Tate, Thomas, Carp, KJ, Sherm, Smith, Baldwin, McCoy, ??
    Some people seem to think they will keep Sherm regardless….and I hope so, but the talent that they have at DB, and the amount he will command…..$16M+ per year….they might be better off signing Tate, Bennett, Baldwin, McDonald, McDaniel, Haushka…and getting prepared for the Russell Wilson and Earl Thomas vault opening.

    Anyways, I seriously have to stop thinking about this stuff….I guess it’s a distraction between games….but I’ve got to just get back to immersing myself in THIS year, and letting the experts figure out what’s best for the Hawks going forward.

    Good times!

    Go Hawks!!

  51. First off, Willson is more of a receiving TE–he’s nowhere near as good a blocker as Miller, and he never will be. He’s just not hefty enough. He’s not a replacement for Miller at all.Doesnt mean Miller wont be cut though, just that Willson wont be his replacement.

    Personally, I think Miller stays. He got the biggest chunk of his money the first few years of his contract, now its manageable. I dont see any way he gets cut or traded now.

    If anything, McCoy could be his replacement–or someone from the draft. I expect Seattle to look at TE’s, but I also expect us to keep McCoy (if he’s healthy and still has his speed/agility), Willson and Miller next year.

  52. It would be nice if Harvin could get his rear on the field for more than 16 plays. This is about where he was supposed to return on his original schedule.

    Rushing back never works out, unless you are named Adrian Petersen.

    I will believe in Harvin when/if he can play two whole games in a row without being gimpy. In the meantime, he’s a myth.

  53. Unger has been utterly ineffective all year. Okung even healthy has performed among the bottom 10 tackles in the league. Carp and McQ are just bad, Sweezy is still bad and inconsistent as hell, and Giacomini is what he is–a tough SOB but not good. He’s bottom 5 in the league too for RT’s.

    The failure to adequately address the line problems this offseason and the draft could derail a SB victory. Thats my biggest fear, and has been. It could also affect the team moving forward. Right now, I only see Lem, Unger, and Okung as guys we should keep and dont need to upgrade. But its also obvious that finding a player to step into Cable’s system immediately is a pipe dream.

    Things may get worse next year on the line.

    I dont care, as long as we find some guys with talent who can at least hold their own. I thought they were improving, but they havent been able to run block consistently well for a month–and isnt that what they are supposed to be good at? Isnt that why we’re supposed to put up with them being bottom-5 in pass pro?

  54. The pass protection seems fine the last 3 weeks.

  55. Singularitarian says:

    Baldwin has been a 3rd down maniac this season, meanwhile, Harvin has 1 catch. I don’t buy into the fact that Harvin was a game changer when he played his 1 game. He had a good return with a big hole. He had 1 catch. I know there was video where he “moved” the safety to create a big play for Doug Baldwin, but that looked to me like the safety just made a bad read, probably was more Wilson looking him off. He also drew a pass interference call. Did he make a couple plays? Yes. Did he “Tilt the Field”? No

  56. Southendzone says:

    Hey STT,

    I agree partly with your criticism of the line this year, it has had some terrible moments, like every moment that McQ was lined up at LT.

    But as for next year I feel like there’s hope because Baily & Bowie will have a shot to beat out one of the starters and I feel like they each have potential.

    To me Unger is the question mark on the group with his status this year (never seemed 100% healthy) and his quote earlier regarding the concussion issue something like “I don’t intend to play this game for a long time”, I can see our next years line in my head except for the Center.

    Okung/Bailey/Unger?/Sweezy/Bowie or Breno.

    That would be a pretty mean O- Line given another year of development for the rookies.

  57. Singularitarian says:

    Lol, a “myth”. That’s how I see him as well

  58. RDPoulsbo says:

    It’s nice to be 11-2, but until they’re holding the Lombardi trophy, they don’t have one.

    Last year, Seattle got to the 2nd round of the playoffs. 1 more win and Seattle is guaranteed to get as far as they did last year, but Harvin was brought in to get them over the top. That’s why I’m willing to wait and see what Harvin has to offer. Hopefully he’s ready sooner than later, but it’s critical he is ready by playoff time.

    There will be changes in the future and how the offense runs will be one of those changes. Without Miller, there will be some level of dropoff, but that could be schemed around with a blocking TE and Willson split out. That might be what they have to do if they want to keep a guy like Tate or Bennett.

  59. GeorgiaHawk says:

    When I start thinking about who we should keep and who we shouldn’t next year, (too much) one thing that snaps me out of it so I can better focus on the next game is this-

    There will be some injuries, DUIs, Domestic violence, retirements, court cases, Substance abuse violations, PED violations, free agency, the NFL draft, undrafted free agent signings, Perhaps CFL signings, trades, and some players that will eat their way out of the NFL before we get to training camp.
    And then much more will happen,(in training camp) before our final roster is rounded up. And then after that more changes will happen.

    I doubt that very few of us here could have predicted even 10% of the FOs roster moves since they have been here. I know I haven’t.

    But all this premature speculation is still interesting sometimes.

  60. tealskin says:

    With as ragged as this O-line has been, can’t see losing Miller as an option. Unless you can find some “undiscovered” gem in FA that is a blocking machine. Be nice to rework the contract, but that will be on the table for several vets. My guess is Sherman will be too expensive to stay and we will be free to hate him like everybody else. Clearly this is the year it has to happen.

  61. yankinta says:

    SlickToxic21,, Yup Yup I completely agree with you. That’s why you will never find on this blog,, when it goes into all of the 2nd guessing, and “sky is falling” routine…. :) only amateurs act that way… I would much rather talk about the future,,

  62. yankinta says:

    Tealskin, Blocking TE’s do not cost $7 Millions against the Cap. That is a Fact. Miller wasn’t signed to be a Blocking TE. We can find decent blocking TEs for around 2-3 Mil a year.

  63. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- We won’t be playing anything close to a top Defense in the Super Bowl so I don’t think our O-line would be the reason if we lose.

    On the other hand, (much like against Atlanta last year) I am more concerned about our Defense stopping Manning or Brady. Especially if the game is on the line.

  64. chuck_easton says:

    Focus…Giants…must win game…still need two wins just to clinch the division.

    Focus

    Focus

    Focus

  65. Pabs–Yes, the pass pro has been decent lately. Its still not good, but thats all RW needs. But the run blocking has regressed badly. Part of it is that teams are keying on the run, but its no excuse that we played good defenses. A run-first team with a group of O-linemen picked for their run-blocking prowess at the expense of pass pro should be able to run on even the best defenses. This year, vs good defenses, Seattle has been mostly terrible. There is no excuse for terrible except being terrible.

    I hope you are right Southendzone, but after the seventh year in a row of poor offensive line performance, I am utterly out of patience. Im done waiting, and I want it fixed 5 years ago. I dont care how.

    Its entirely possible Lynch has slowed somewhat, but its clear that he can still run like hell when given the tiniest hole. All he needs is halfway decent blocking, consistently, to be a beast. And thats still true even if he’s lost some top-end speed.

    The poor performance stats by Lynch the last couple weeks have more to do with poor blocking than Lynch playing worse. It reminds of his first game here–he was getting hit behind the line and yet still got 2 yards. That was one of the most impressive running performances I have ever seen, and he avg 2 ypc or something like that and only got 45 yards. The line isnt that bad this year, but they arent good either, and Lynch is getting hammered.

  66. Georgia–We have to get there first, remember! And the trend of not being able to get even a stud like Lynch to 100 yards for weeks is troubling. We’re gonna end up playing Carolina and/or the Niners again in the playoffs, and even at home our line will have to play far better or we will lose. I have no faith in them, only blind hope.

    Thurmond will be here for the playoffs, and that will help.

    And maybe The Myth will show up and do something.

  67. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- Also give Willson some more credit for his blocking. He was an outstanding blocker at Rice, (his coach said) and he was the main reason they had so much success on the ground there. And that’s partly why he didn’t catch a lot of balls in College.

    He just needs to bulk up a little and he will be fine.

    I agree with you that Miller stays. If Miller was playing in New England or Denver he would be in the Pro Bowl. He is a very good receiver and blocker too.
    He was lights out last year in the playoffs.

  68. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- We will be there next week warming up with Mannings little brother. Lol.

  69. What is the weather going to be like on Sunday? Not worried about snow that is there now – that will get plowed but what about snow that falls right before or during the game? how will that effect us? that Detroit – Philly game was INSANE last week. That kind of conditions can really have an effect on YAC since there may not be any solid ground to push off of or get good foot holds when needed.

  70. Blocking at Rice is a bit different than trying to block NFL DE’s and LB’s. I dont see Willson being able to bulk up enough to be a great all-around TE. He’s a joker TE, a totally different animal than Miller. Miller is the total package, a rarity in today’s NFL. Most TE’s are Dustin Keller receiving types or plodding blockers.

    Now, after I wrote that paragraph, I googled Miller and Willson’s height/weight. Nearly Identical. Miller is listed at 6′-5″ and 255 lbs, Willson at 6’5″ and 251 lbs. Really. Knock me over with a feather.

    Then why the hell does he look skinnier than Miller, and why is Miller so much a better blocker?! I dont get it.

    Maybe your right. Maybe he will become Millers replacement and an all-around TE. If he can become as good a blocker as Miller, he will be a Pro Bowler for sure with his speed.

  71. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Pabs- New York- New Jersey or is anyone else going to the game?

  72. When is practice today? Want to know if BB and PH are on the field at all today.

    Also – for this week I am a huge STL and TB fan :) because we could just seal the door this week and that would be SPECTACULAR

    So my rooting interests for the week:
    1 Seahawks win
    2 Seahawks win
    3 Seahawks win
    4 TB beats SF (seals division for us) (provided above happens)
    5. STL beats NO (seals HFA for us) (provided above happens)

  73. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- Just look at what they got Carpenter listed at. We know that isn’t true.

  74. Right now the forecast for Sunday’s game shows rain/snow, wind and temps in the low to mid 30s. If that remains the case Saturday, then I will just stay home.

  75. Southendzone says:

    xcman, I saw a funny tweet about the Philly/DET game, it went something like “Well you can throw the coaches film out the window from that game”, attached to a pic of a virtual white out from the all-22 high camera view.

    What is a better chance, STL beats NO, or TB beats SF? TB are bigger favorites at 6 vs 5.5 and are playing better ball lately than STL, but you can also make the argument that STL’s D-Line is perfectly suited to mess with Brees at home in their dome.

  76. Miller is a TE not a wide receiver.
    Good NFL TE’s are expected to be multidimensional that is able to block and catch not just run out there and run routs or just block.
    He is being used more to block due to line problems and Offensive phillosophy, he has the ability to stretch the field and catch most of what is thrown to him when needed. He is not being paid that much for a TE with his skills and production is subjective. If he blocks and we gain more yards and win more games due to this then he is pretty successful, but many don’t seem to be able to look at the game and see what’s happening they look at the stats and say see look he isn’t producing the game is more than stats.
    Just because he isn’t putting up Xbox numbers doen’t mean cut him loose.
    People seem forget the focus of this team is to RUN the Ball. Having a TE like Miller is pretty key to that focus wish we had another TE with his skills. Wilson does not have the blocking skills of Miller not even close, he blew a pretty easy block on the kick return at the end of the SF game that people rip Turbin for returning. a better block and more return yards there.
    Stop the if I’m a manager I’d cut him next year talk, his contract is getting smaller and cutting him will waste money due to the cap rules why throw $ out to cut a good all a round team player, just does’nt make sense

    Giants this week and it’s pretty dang important game lets talk about that.
    Hoping for bad weather cold, snow and whatever mother nature can throw out on sunday for the dress rehearsal to the Super Bowl

  77. What would be interesting to see is how many 1st rounders have PC and JS hit on compared to the league and our division. Harvin can go either way depending on his “recovery”, Carpenter not nearly living up to expectations, Irvin isn’t lighting it up his 2nd year but then you have Thomas and Okung who are doing well. That’s 40% of our 1st rounders warranting where they were taken. I don’t mind taking the risk of signing Harvin I just don’t like giving up the picks for no productivity.

  78. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Miller is a former pro bowl tight end with tons of experience blocking, while Wilson is a rookie tight end. Give him a few seasons and you’ll see his blocking improve as was the case with Miller. Blocking has way more to do with technique, system and experience than size, although size helps. Right now, these two are a terrific complement to each other, and work well in this system.

  79. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Pick_6 -
    It’s the middle to late round picks and undrafted free agents that PC & JS has made a name for themselves with imo. I don’t think any other team comes close with matching their success with that.

  80. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Agreed MauMau, stats are often used here without regard to the impact that player has on another players or plays success. Miller has done more than his fair share of blocking as that’s a big part of why they brought him here. He’s not a tight end in the mold of a Graham or Davis that is used more as a wide receiver, although he does have great hands and has made plenty of clutch receptions. His salary was structured to go down in the later part of his contract to give the team some freedom. Many contracts escalate the last few years and those are always the contracts that never go full term. Those players get cut or restructure. Now Miller may still be asked to redo his deal after the season, but to say he needs to be cut is very short sighted and we’re not going to find a comparable TE with his all around skill set, ability, demeanor and leadership. Miller has been a terrific “team” guy and doesn’t bitch about his role as some of the other higher priced TE out there in FA. He’s a great value and a vital part of this team.

  81. TallyHawk says:

    Don’t pass judgement on Irvin quite yet. I think in the next couple years he could become a force at LB.

  82. Singularitarian says:

    MauMau- I would not hope for snow. Last thing we need to do is play a crappy football team in the snow where everything changes. Andre brown takes me as a Snow type runner, and I don’t want to play a must win game with random snow turnovers

  83. Singularitarian says:

    Actually Davis is a very good blocking TE. And I say the must keep Miller crowd is the short sighted crowd. I don’t think we should cut Miller for the record.

    I also don’t think Irvin is a bad 1st rounder at this point either.

  84. Has RW had a snow game in his past? Wisconsin? be interesting to see how he does, that is for sure. Short passing game can really make a difference on a cold snowy day (IMO)

  85. MoSeahawk12 says:

    At least we don’t have to worry about this kind of crap. Two teams going in opposite directions. So proud to root for our Seahawks!

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2013/12/11/robert-griffin-iii-rgiii-rg3-kirk-cousins-mike-shanahan/3987341/

  86. yankinta says:

    Singularitarian,, well said. Short sighted crowd (must keep Miller), indeed. :) I don’t think we should cut him but we should definitely reduce is salary. If he doesn’t want to take pay cut, then we cut him. But Miller and his agent know, he’s wouldn’t be getting pay this kind of money in the open market….so they’ll probably take a pay cut.

    I love how Irvin is playing at LB. He can be a very good LB (above average LB) for us from now on.

  87. GeorgiaHawk says:

    xcman-
    I asked that question earlier this week and someone responded with the coldest game at Wisconsin that Wilson played in was 46 degrees.

  88. Wasn’t the Saints game in the 30s a few weeks ago? Or was it in the 40s?

  89. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “he’s wouldn’t be getting pay this kind of money in the open market…”

    Nonsense!
    Miller doesn’t play for a pass happy team. He deserves what he gets and we are lucky to have him.

    He would get the same or more on the open market imo.

  90. yankinta says:

    lol,, really?? You think Miller would get paid $7 Mil a year, if Seahawks were to cut him?? I guess we will find out in 3-4 months… :)

  91. so according to Todd’s tweet – no Harvin for Practice – I would assume not active for this week again (but expected)

    Maybe while they are in NY he can get his guy to look at it and see if there is any type of lingering issue.

  92. Georgia–Yeah, there’s no way Willson looks 250. 240, maybe. But Miller looks a lot stronger and thicker, at least to me. Wouldnt be the first time guys were listed at other than their actual height/weight, thats for sure….

  93. Southendzone says:

    Yank:

    His salary isn’t 7M, that’s his cap hit with a $5M salary, he’s already earned the additional 2M in terms of his signing bonus.

    So the question becomes, could Miller earn $5M on the market.

    That would put him in the neighborhood of players like:
    Martellus Bennett
    Greg Olsen
    Owen Daniels
    Brett Celek

    Significantly below top tier players like Gronk, Witten, Vernon Davis.
    and significantly above players like John Carlson or Fred Davis.

    Given those data points, I’d say Zach might be a little overpaid at $5M, but not much, and if the Hawks deem him a good contributor who has a nice fit with RW in terms of chemistry, it’s not a stretch to keep him @ $5M.

  94. We will lose Miller, Browner, Robinson and Sidney Rice after this season. And I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Marshawn gone after next season.

  95. I don’t get all the talk about the off season. We’re IN season right now. We have the best record in the NFC. Talking about Zach Miller’s salary for next year or not living up to his contract is talk of fans that have nothing left to play for this season…like the Giants. You know them, our opponents this week?

    GO HAWKS!

  96. yankinta says:

    Southendzone,, that’s what I said. Would someone else be willing to sign Miller with a 7 Mil Cap Hit on their team…. Who Cares about the actual Money?? It’s Paul Allen’s Money. He got a lot more, plus he gets a ton of Tax Benefits which he makes a lot of Profits off of….

  97. yankinta says:

    joreb,, some of us are not short sighted. We like thinking about the future and whom we should and shouldn’t keep…. JS/PC agreed. They’ve been saying from day one that it’s not about one year. It’s all about Sustained Success. That is the hardest thing to do. Not many team has been able to do that. Building a Dynasty is what this Front Office is all about!!…. and those of us that are not short sighted absolutely LOVE IT!! :)

  98. I have a theory about fandom: that is that we, in a sense, play for the team. After all, why else would we scream at the other team, scream at our own players, even when we’re all by ourselves in front of the TV? Our role in playing for the team is to cheer them and support them. Now, as members of the “larger Seahawks team,” we will be more effective if we stay focused on the task at hand. In fact, our collective mentality on this blog may in some respects mimic or share characteristics with that of the actual team. I hope that’s not the case. I’d hate for some of the subjects that seem to be top of mind to us as contributors to be top of mind for the team. By being ho-hum about the Giants, are we reflecting a ho-hum attitude on the part of the team? And does that set us up for a loss? Another way of looking at this is that I’m superstitious. Like the guys in the Bud Light commercial, I like to get all my mojo or juju focused on winning this game. Though it’s everyone’s right to discuss what’s going to happen to the tight ends next year, it just seems premature, and somewhat disrespectful to Miller who’s made some big plays for us and who’s likely going to be very important to us in the next 3, and hopefully 6, games.

  99. I guess I just said what joreb said in three times as many words.

  100. PugetHawk says:

    I don’t see how anyone can say drafting Christen Michael was a waste. You don’t even know how the story ends yet.

  101. Dukeshire says:

    I believe the quote was he’s a waste, to date / so far.

  102. ” says the Mariners have a big challenge ahead of them bringing back fans in a town dominated by Seahawks and Sounders”

    Totally, entirely wrong. Bad management and team performance are the only thing keeping fans away from the Mariners. The other Seattle teams are not to blame.

  103. SandpointHawk says:

    Right on joreb…

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