Seahawks Insider

Ranking of NFL owners short-changes Paul Allen

Post by Dave Boling / The News Tribune on Nov. 22, 2013 at 6:58 am with 111 Comments »
November 22, 2013 6:58 am

In this morning’s Trib, John McGrath did a column taking Forbes Magazine to task for its rating of Paul Allen No. 14 among NFL owners. Forbes’ metrics include “condition of the team when the owner arrived,” a factor that should have made Allen No. 1 by a long shot. It’s a great point worth remembering.

How far has it come in the 17 years of Allen’s ownership? Compare the facilities, fan base, franchise stability and competitiveness. The Seahawks have gone from being on the threshold of relocation to the threshold of the best season in team history.

In a bigger sense, it’s likely this team wouldn’t be here without Allen.

Those young enough to have been spared exposure to the Ken Behring ownership can’t imagine what a dreadful influence that was on the entire franchise. In a feature I did last summer about former owner John Nordstrom, I was let in on an episode that I felt was the best example of how Behring operated. Nordstrom invited Behring to his house to discuss rumors that he was going to move the team – a violation of the deal the Nordstroms made at the time of the sale, that the new owner would keep the team in Seattle. As he sat in Nordstrom’s living room, he assured John that there was nothing at all to the rumors. That very afternoon, Nordstrom got a call from a Seahawks exec that Behring had the moving vans being loaded at the Kirkland headquarters. Behring had flat-out lied to his face.

Allen didn’t really want to buy a football team. But since he did, he’s not only paid for high-ticket talent to be brought in, he’s okayed the dismissal of high-priced busts, too. As McGrath points out, there’s been some hiccups along the way in the front office, but for the most part, he’s hired top-shelf people to do the job and then stayed out of their way.

– has a column based on an interview with columnist Jeffri Chadiha on the recent talk about Russell Wilson’s worthiness as an MVP candidate. On the Brock and Danny Show on Thursday, Chadiha said: “… I was wrong about him … he’s shown to be more than a game manager, but to say he’s an MVP right now, I can’t go there.”

Chadiha said he’d consider Marshawn Lynch a more viable candidate than Wilson, since he’s the focus of the Seahawks offense.

He cited an appreciation for Wilson’s humble attitude and approach. “I think it’s very easy, especially in these times with Twitter and Facebook and around-the-clock coverage to fall in love with yourself. And to me, the most impressive thing about Russell Wilson is that he’s not caught up in who he is; he’s still trying to get better as a player.”

–I like Terry Blount’s post on regarding a pair of surprising Seahawks: Clinton McDonald and Jermaine Kearse. 

McDonald has 22 tackles and 3 ½ sacks, and also added an interception against Minnesota. Valuable production from a guy who was cut earlier in the season.

Kearse, meanwhile, has four TD catches in 13 receptions, and also been a big factor in the Seahawks’ stellar special teams.

Blount also rated the Top 5 Seahawks at the bye break. All five will be Pro Bowlers if not All-Pro. And the order is debatable, of course. Blount’s list goes like this: 5) Sherman. 4) Hauschka. 3) Marshawn. 2) Earl Thomas. 1) Russell Wilson.

–On the topic of Paul Allen, he said Thursday he is putting up $2.4 million for a study on the long-term effects of repetitive head trauma.




Leave a comment Comments → 111
  1. yankinta says:

    Did anyone notice the inept referee crew from last night?? It’s the same crew that missed 4 plus game changing calls on our wk 5 game. The same inept crew led by Ron Winter…. smh….

    I’m actually kind of glad this happened because this means, this crew will be downgraded and unlikely to officiate in the playoff. We definitely do not want this crew officiating any of our Playoff games!!

  2. To be fair, Paul Allen wasn’t going to buy the team unless Washington state taxpayers gave him a brand new stadium to jack his franchise value up considerably. Nothing beats our celebration of free money for a billionaire.

  3. yankinta says:

    I listened to podcast ( columnist Jeffri Chadiha interview on 710espn). It was clear to me that this guy has not watch more than a couple of Seahawks games….

    Therefore I was not offended nor mad. I just felt sorry for him cuz they asked him to talk about something he didn’t know and he had to pretend to know,, which made him sound Stupid.

  4. yankinta says:

    I would much rather trade up with Denver to get Ra’Shede Hageman, DT, Minnesota….

  5. Dukeshire says:


    I didn’t know that about Behring lying like that the Mr. Nordstrom. I was aware of the “no relocate” agreement, but that’s some next-level dishonesty.

    Also, if Hauschka is on a probowl list, so too should John Ryan.

  6. montanamike2 says:

    I remember the Behring fiasco. I started following the team when the walrus was hired. I will never buy Starbucks again for the same reason.

  7. Behring was a dude on a mission – but the city and the league stood up to him and said no. Just another reason why I don’t like the NBA.

    But back to the NFL. I totally can’t see why/how they would put Paul Allen at 14th. Crazy! just crazy – Interesting enough he has been willing all along the way to get rid of coaches, GM’s, and higher ups who have not been getting the job done-or just needed to be moved along at the time. (can he buy the M’s too?) I would say he has been great for our franchise. #1 in my book – mainly because he is ours

  8. HawkFromDay1 says:

    No debate from me on #1 and #2 on that list.

    I’d want Michael Bennett on that list, probably instead of Hauschka. Arguably the most consistent DL player of the year – and with all the Hawks’ talent on DL, that’s saying something…

  9. best line from the article:

    “Get a clue and find some facts.

    They’re free.”

  10. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Is Ken Behring related to Clay Bennett?

    Well that was a little of a disappointing game for me last night, but the Saints showed what they have been all about on the road this year, (average at best). I don’t think that will get the job done in the Clink.
    Unless the Seahawks have multiple turnovers and play sloppy they should win this one big.
    I actually see the Saints having a better chance of having multiple turnovers in this one. I see us winning by 20 points or more.

  11. montanamike2 says:

    They didn’t look good, that’s for sure. No way they run right through us like that. I would like to see the Percy Harvin show.

  12. Paul Allen is the best owner of a sport’s franchise Seattle has ever had…and it shows today. National writers will always rank a Seattle owner lower until you see some championships…out west you have to force their attention to you, such as the team is beginning to do now.

  13. yankinta says:

    GeorgiaHawk,, Lol I predicted 37-17, blowout win,, back on Monday (11/18)…. are you saying you agree with me now? :)

  14. yankinta says:

    p.s., you should blame Ron Winter’s inept crew for your failed prediction on that game,, It should have gone into overtime with 17-17 score…. I was rooting for Falcons, too…

  15. How are the players on the Pro Bowl ballot determined? I would think Jeremy Lane would have a shot at the ST Pro Bowl spot, but he’s not on the ballot. Heath Farwell is the Seahawk player in the ballot.

  16. wallinator says:

    ICYMI – Monday’s interview w Jen Mueller talking Seahawks On the Double w The Double S Xpress & Paul Moyer this Monday at 7pm LIVE

  17. Good story from Bob Condotta about Pro Football Focus naming the Seahawks as the best special teams in the NFL.

    I especially liked this line:

    “Truthfully, there are 31 other special teams units and then there are the Seattle Seahawks. They do things differently from their mass use of starters to the way they attack every opportunity.”

  18. FleaFlicker says:

    Pabs, have to agree with you on that one. As much as I absolutely love the stadium, I do hate the fact that taxpayers had to foot part of the bill for an incredibly lucrative private business.

  19. thursday says:

    Yeah Saints were not impressive at all last night. Not scared of them one bit. Can’t believe the NFL Twitter actually tweeted if they should be crowned best in the NFC after that win. Really? That crown comes through Seattle buddy.

  20. You knew the game was going to be close – just like the last few years when STL hasn’t been all that good but they have given the hawks pretty much everything they can handle. Sure the hawks have been winning those games but not without a little struggle along the way – division games are always tough – teams know each other well!

  21. rramstad says:

    I have to say that Mr. Allen has singlehandedly saved or created a few of the things that make Seattle special… and I routinely thank him, in my mind, for it.

    A minor example to some, the Cinerama theater downtown is wonderful, and would never have made it, much less been renovated and completely reborn, without his money, efforts, and energy.

    Of course there’s the EMP, which is the only institution of its kind combining the history of rock and roll music with science fiction… some of the artifacts they have there are frankly kind of mind blowing.

    It is true that Mr. Allen required that there be a significant public buy in for the Seahawks to stay and the new stadium to happen. He didn’t get nearly the sweetheart deal that some NFL owners got, and he did take on a pretty significant risk, personally underwriting all cost overruns. He also then turned around and got the Sounders going in a major way, so it wasn’t just the case of getting the Seahawks and keeping that economic activity, he added dozens of events to the Pioneer Square area with tens of thousands more people at each of those events. Not to mention that the Kingdome quickly was going to become a liability — look at what Houston will have to spend just to tear down the Astrodome, and at the end, they won’t have anything to show for that money.

    It’s also spectacular what he has done with the VMAC, with recruiting coaches like Mike Holmgren who really put this franchise on the national map, with getting involved with the NFL ownership group and competition committee and things of that nature… there are MANY things he’s done for the Seahawks which do not obviously relate to our game day experiences as fans, but clearly have a major influence on how things actually work out.

    Honestly, even with all the philanthropy that Mr. Gates participates in, I feel quite strongly that Mr. Allen has a more direct daily positive influence on my life… it’s because he’s spent money on things that make Seattle a better more fun interesting place, where Mr. Gates has spent his money on projects located in other places for the most part. They are both important people, and I appreciate both of their efforts, but every time I go to Cinerama or head to the CLink, I thank Mr. Allen!

  22. yankinta says:

    xcman,, I’d say you made a good point if they had played well at Jets and Pats… Saints are a much different team on the road. That much is certain. We are not that different from home to road anymore because we have a Top 3 QB playing for us. :)

  23. montanamike2 says:

    That injury to Greer makes the Saints susceptible in the secondary as evidenced by Shaub last night.

  24. I went AWOL as a Seahawks fan for almost all of the Behring years. No doubt in my mind that Allen’s the best.

  25. RDPoulsbo says:

    Before blaming the refs, Atlanta fumbling inside the red zone, then missing the FG on their last 2 real possessions had more to do with their loss than anyone wearing stripes. If they made that FG, they’d be within a FG of winning if their defense could just force a 3 and out. Of course their defense showed no inclination of stopping the Saints from running time off the clock. With that 4th quarter, there’s no better example of why the Falcons have such a bad record.

    In any case, NO showed why they are a bad road team. As long as the Hawks don’t lose focus after the bye, they should win comfortably now that they are mostly healthy.

  26. It has never bothered me like it does some about the taxpayers getting involved in stadium projects. Its true that the teams are owned by billionaires but the teams are also part of the community. We all feel like the Seahawks belong to us. They’re part of us and we’re part of them. As long as the owner and team are dealing with us in good faith and investing in the team and the community, I don’t have a problem with footing a little bit of the bill at all. The Mariners need to step it up a little more to live up to their part of the bargain but I have no problem at all with Mr. Allen.

    I do beieve he is one of the 2 or 3 best owners in football. Rating him No 14 is kind of insulting.

  27. yankinta says:

    RDPoulsbo,, I agree. But my point still stand. We do not want Ron Winter’s inept crew officiating our playoff games…. only because of that crew’s Ineptitude,, :)

  28. ChrisHolmes says:

    Nice link @rlc. Good add. Thanks.

  29. I won’t use last night’s game as basis for predictions…the Saints played a division opponent, on the road, during a short week. Payton will have them ready for the game, and I expect they’ll bring it.

  30. RDPoulsbo says:

    It’s hard to remember just how bad things were just before Allen bought the team, but I’d be willing to bet the team was a big money losing gamble and why no one local wanted to buy them. A team that had mostly cut ties with it’s fans, a crumbling Kingdome, and a horrible reputation for potential free agents added up to financial disaster for anyone willing to try to keep the team here. 17 years later, a lot of that situation caused by Behring are still the perception of many outside of Seattle. There are a lot of people that want to whitewash the horrible shape the organization was in to nitpick the stadium vote. They also want to forget that Allen paid for a significant portion of building it and state voters approved of the plan.

  31. yankinta says:

    To those of you that were watching the Saints game last night,, I’m not sure about you but I was actually picturing RW in Matt Ryan’s Shoes,, facing Saints Defense the entire game….

    I gotta say,, if RW was in fact the ATL QB,, he could have made a ton of plays. Saints D was good but it had holes for a Dynamic QB like RW. Matt Ryan is a good QB with very good accuracy from the Pocket. But RW offers the same and Much more…. he could have escaped the pocket last night and threw on the run for huge gains or run for 1st downs….

    I was Absolutely Convinced by the end of the game that RW is Head and Shoulder above Matt Ryan after only 1.5 years…. That is just Completely Amazing to me. MMS :)

  32. I listened to the Chadiha interview on Brock and Danny. As with any columnist covering 32 teams and ~1600 players, there will be a lot that he won’t be incredibly familiar with, as evidenced by his appearance on B&D last spring. He seems more familiar now.

    While I don’t agree with him that Marshawn is more valuable to the Seahawks than Wilson is, I still thought his arguments had validity. Take RW off this team, and the dropoff would not be nearly as severe as losing the QB would be for NE, Green Bay, or Denver.

  33. yankinta says:

    Gusset,, I guess I disagree with you. Especially because we’ve seen our Run game completely shut down at Carolina, Texas, Arizona and Rams, without RW, we’d be at 5-6 instead of 10-1. I’m not sure how that compares to NE, GB and Denver but I’d consider that drop off Severe…

  34. I was kind of impressed by the Saints D last night – they had pressure on Ryan on most of his dropbacks. Their D-line is much better than I’d thought, though I agree w/some of the above posts, their secondary has some holes. Will be a tough game against them when we play – and penciling in a blowout Seattle win is pretty optimistic. Should be our toughest game of the year so far.

  35. sluggo42 says:

    It’s like fingernails on a chalkboard…

  36. montanamike2 says:

    Earlier i said Shaub when i meant Ryan.

  37. sluggo42 says:

    I’m glad we got our line back, they have a good rush. I would doubt they leave gaping holes like that for the beast. I think greers injury combined with Harvins return spells big day for beast after we gash them a few times on bubble screens. Then after they start stacking, we gash them again.

  38. Desperation comes in many forms sluggo. Unfortunately, now that less attention is being given, more posts are occurring. Hopefully it’ll all go away, but I have my doubts.

    Paul Allen has been a tremendous owner. I can’t believe it’s been 17 years already. I hate to think about what we’d have had he not stepped in.

    After watching the game last night, I feel pretty good about our team. The Saints defense has improved a lot, but we’re so much better than we were last year. The scores may not reflect as much but it feels like we have a lot less holes in our arsenal. I think we’ll handle them on MNF, but still think SF will get us in their house.

  39. It’s interesting to compare N.O. and Seattle vs. common opponents. Each has faced the Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, and Bucs. Seattle is 4-0 against those teams, while N.O. is 5-0 (they’ve played Atlanta twice).

    Of those nine games, Seattle won three of four by 12+ points. The only close game was the OT win over Tampa. Two of the three big wins were on the road, at Arizona and Atlanta.

    Conversely, Atlanta won only one of its five by more than 6 points, their 31-7 win at home over Arizona. Their narrow road victories were against Atlanta and Tampa. SF and Atlanta were also able to play them close at home.

    Interestingly, both teams struggled against the 1-win Bucs, Seattle needing overtime and N.O. needing a last second field goal to win. Seattle blew out Atlanta, while the Falcons were able to keep it close in both games against the Saints. In those games, a late Jimmy Graham TD put the Saints ahead for good (Seahawks must contain Graham). A tough SF defense was able to keep Brees in check during a close win at home, while the Seahawks ran over the 49ers back when they were at full strength (minus Percy Harvin). As for the Cardinals, we both whipped ‘em.

    Taking it one step further and looking at all eleven games each team has played, both teams have high point differentials, Seattle at +123, N.O. at +103. BUT, on the road, N.O. is only +5! I say again, N.O. is only +5 in point differential on the road! Seattle is +85 at home.

    On top of all that, N.O. gives up 4.8 yards per rushing attempt, which plays right to the strength of the Seahawks.

    My initial gut feel was that Monday would be a close game, but I am starting to think the Seahawks have a chance to run away in the second half if they establish the running game early, and the defense we know and love shows up from the starting whistle.

  40. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Good, maybe we will get them here again next year on national tv for another beat down.

  41. GeorgiaHawk says:

    OrrObb- Thanks for putting that comparison together.

  42. AKhawkFan says:

    Is it just me, or has this blog mentally blocked out that Big Walt is a HOF finalist? Nobody is talking about it.

    Congrats Mr. Jones. I wish you were still playing Tackle or us big man!


    I think Jeff Saturday missed the mark on “blueprint” for New Orleans beating Seattle. Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson are not the same kind of QB. We already know what RW can do when he “moves his legs” and gets outside of the pocket. Sometimes it isn’t pretty, but there’s more to it than in a comparison to Ryan.

  44. ChrisHolmes says:

    Listening to talking heads like Chadiha and Saturday, et al, I am always struck by how knowledgeable they sound… Right up until the moment they have to start talking about the Seahawks. Then it’s like listening to my mom talk about the Seahawks. There’s just fact-checking or research there.

    I understand we’re stuck in Alaska up here, but you’d think with the advent of the internet and streamed replays of games that some of these folks could actually do some homework.

    I mean, if I got paid to talk about football? Holy cripes… I’d be watching every game on demand after Sunday to get caught up and know my stuff.

    I wonder what Chadiha’s salary is…

  45. JZombie, I have to agree with you. We all know how well RW plays on the move. And, beyond that, one reason N.O. could pin its ears back and go after Ryan is because Atlanta has no running game.

  46. RDPoulsbo says:

    lol…so ESPN is already hyping the Sea-NO game even when they haven’t played the upcoming Monday night game? I guess the Crapernick vs. RG3-7 QB duel isn’t going to live up to what they hoped it would be…

    Saturday also forgot that Seattle has a running game. Atlanta as an organization still seems to be confused that the handoff is still a legal play, so NO never had to worry about a rushing attack and just pin their ears back and tee off on Ryan.

  47. montanamike2 says:

    Thanks for the promising stats OrrObb, ChrisHolmes sometimes it blows my mind how someone can make a living while being so biased and unsure of what they’re talking about.

  48. montanamike2 says:

    It’s fun to watch the Shanahan/RGknee rift as they start to implode.

  49. Macabrevity says:

    If you look at it as a question of when and not if our home streak ends, then the Saints visiting is a good a loss as any. I for one won’t be too disheartened should this game indeed end our streak. On the other hand, I’ll be absolutely ecstatic if we win it convincingly.

  50. I can’t stand RGIII and the way he snaps his hand back after a throw. I do like Luck and don’t mind Kaep (just wished he played for an AFC team).

    Shannahan I still hate from his days with the Broncos. He’s just a little punk a** rat IMO. I love seeing it all blow up in DC. I wish we were going there in December instead of facing Big Blue.

    Glennon is the one I’m keeping my eye on. I thought he was pretty impressive when I saw him play the Hawks. He’s got a big arm, above average mobility and a great demeanor about him. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if the Bucs were most improved team next year. I don’t care for Schianno, but there is a ton of talent down there.

    Admittedly, I’m a little down today with no Hawks to look forward to. The BYE comes at a good time, but I’m missing my team. MNF vs Saints can’t get here soon enough.

  51. rramstad says:

    Mike Shanahan is quite possibly the worst coach that Griffin could have ended up playing for. I suspect that his career will be noticeably shortened because the Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons expect him to play through injury, and he’s always been injury prone. Dan Snyder is a jerk and deserves it.

    I would love to see some more Native American activism when it comes to the Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons and them playing in stadiums that are partially funded through sales taxes. They should not be allowed to use their team name or team logo inside any facility partially funded through public means. It’s a clear conflict of government anti discrimination policies and the private sector where you can be as racist as you want to be as long as it’s able to be written off as “tradition”.

  52. Dukeshire says:

    ChrisHolmes – I suspect that same scenario applies when those morons discuss any team. From the outside they sound coherent, but those which actual knowledge of the team they are speaking about, they sound grossly ill-informed.

  53. Dukeshire says:

    AKhawkFan – Honestly, I think most have Walt already in the Hall, so the process of him being inducted is simply a formality. I mean, they started making his bust a decade ago. lol

  54. ChrisHolmes says:

    I agree with @rramstad. Shanahan is about the worst coach RGIII could have went to.

    That said, I’m not sure it matters that much. RGIII has never shown any ability to read defenses, get off his first look, and play a cerebral game.

    When he was drafted, a lot of the talk about RGIII was about his athleticism and his personality. Well… we’ve seen athletic QB’s fail before, and personality doesn’t win many games either. You still have to think, be smart, and throw the football.

    I thought that this breakdown they did of RGIII’s passing woes (courtesy of MMQB) was really enlightening:

    I’d recommend folks read it. You’ll see how simplified some of the Redskins plays really are, and how RGIII is still failing to execute them.

    Now, compare that with our boy Wilson and Bevell’s multiple WR sets…

    We’re the lucky ones.

  55. SandpointHawk says:

    LOL…Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons? Let’s see some of the mush mouthed announcers pronounce that…

  56. ChrisHolmes says:

    @Dukeshire I suspect you’re correct sir.

    I’m sure it’s not an “easy” gig to be a national reporter for a sport like football.

    But when I watch guys like Jaws do analysis, and he’s watching film and breaking it down, I’m thinking to myself, “Why don’t these other bozos do the same thing? Then they would actually be able to talk with real facts backing them up.”

    Then I remember the law of human nature. We’re lazy creatures.

  57. montanamike2 says:

    How crazy is it that the name “bullets” was changed to “wizards” out of political correctness, but it’s ok to use a derogitory slur for your football team. I’m glad we’re respectful with our team name and logo.

  58. ChrisHolmes says:

    “Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons?”

    Greg Easterbrook coined that in his Tuesday Morning Quarterback column. He calls the Titans the “Flaming Thumbtacks”. He has nicknames for a lot of teams.

    Sometimes you gotta dig on ESPN to find his column. He’s a very wordy read (and I have to skip over a lot of his writing) but there’s some nuggets in there from time to time.

  59. ChrisHolmes says:

    “How crazy is it that the name “bullets” was changed to “wizards” out of political correctness…”

    How crazy is it that two of the sports team names that needed to be changed were both in Washington DC?

    That town just has a hard time doing anything right.

  60. I agree Duke…Walt is a no brainer. Of all the nominees, I think he should be at the top of the list.

    There are 2 guys I think should’ve been in a long time ago: Reed and Craig. Both were outstanding. I don’t think the Bills or the Niners would’ve been as dominant without either. Craig gets shafted b/c of his fumble in the playoffs and Reed b/c the Bills lost 4 in a row.

    The Niners sent how many guys from those teams? Bills?

    I guess Haley should be included as well.

    If I had to vote 5, I’d probably go with Big Walt, the three above mentioned and Harrison or Strahan.

    If T. Davis gets in then I think Easley should as well. Sayers did, but not a lot of guys like him with so little body of work.

  61. Dukeshire says:

    ChrisHolmes – Exactly my point. It’s clear most take a glossary view and move along. Or worse yet, have the producers tell them what opinion to have and placate to them. It’s rare indeed that those on the national level invest the hours required to study the many teams they’re going to talk about. And whether one respects his opinion or not, a guy like Jaws does his best to make an informed opinion. That doesn’t mean he’s always right. That’s not the point. The point is he cares enough to do his own research. Guys like him and Mayock are few and far between. (And again, I couldn’t care any less if they are right or wrong. It’s the fact they study that I respect. The overwhelming majority do not, and it’s clear by their full throated “factual opinions”. That is the chief reason I very rarely ever watch ESPN anymore, aside from actual games.)

  62. jawpeace says:

    Berhing was the like Galatic Empire trying to destroy the SeaHawks. Shudder… those were dark years. I did not know Ken B. was lying to Norstrom face when moving vans were at the complex. BAD MAN. I try to find some good quality in someone I loath. The only one I could come up with for Ken was I liked how he dressed moderately and did not wear expensive shallow designer clothing, even though he could afford them. Paul Allen should easily be ranked in the top five.

  63. thursday says:

    Nice stats Orrobb. I would have added to my previous post that I also wasn’t impressed with the Saints against the Whiners. They pretty much kept Krappernick and CO. in the game with their flubs. Not saying the don’t have the potential to be tough, lbr EVERY team does, but i’m not scared of them, and especially not in the Clink on a Monday night.

  64. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Not sure what to think about if the Redskins name is too offensive to keep.
    Seems like it was used in a positive light originally and then decades later it was used in a negative way by some writers and others.

    I’ve seen a poll where 90% of native Americans are not offended by the name and there are many native American High schools with the name.

    I do know that there’s money and political benefits in being an activist for something so controversial.

    I wonder what Sonny Six killers opinion on this is?

    “According to Smithsonian historian Ives Goddard, early historical records indicate that “Redskin” was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races. Goddard found that the first use of the word “redskin” came in 1769, in negotiations between the Piankashaws and Col. John Wilkins. Throughout the 1800s, the word was frequently used by Native Americans as they negotiated with the French and later the Americans. The phrase gained widespread usage among whites when James Fenimore Cooper used it in his 1823 novel The Pioneers. In the book, Cooper has a dying Indian character lament, “There will soon be no red-skin in the country.”

  65. HawkfaninMT says:

    ARRRRGHH!It is like June before any mini-camps start on Bye weeks!

    This sucks!

  66. rramstad says:

    Georgia, it may sound melodramatic, but if 90% of Native Americans have no problems with the term, that means 10% have problems with the term, and 10% is way too many.

    There’s some similar discussions going on with the Dolphins and the N-word. There are many African Americans that think there is no such thing as an honorary black (white) man, and many African Americans that think that no white man should ever use the N-word, period. That said you can find the opposite in the Miami locker room, but the simple fact that some African American exist that have those views doesn’t mean suddenly the N-word is something that white people with discretion and intelligence will start using…

    Would we be OK with the Washington Kikes? The Washington Dagos? The Washington Sand N-rs? Of course not. There’s a gazillion fun and interesting names they could use including the similar Washington Pigskins, wouldn’t even have to rewrite the chants or songs, and people could still call them the ‘Skins. Snyder is just too much of an ass to admit he’s wrong. (He’s also likely a racist, honestly, given his public stance on changing the name, any decent businessman would realize he’d get goodwill and a lot of people buying new merchandise if the name and logo changed.)

  67. GeorgiaHawk says:

    This is about the biggest thing I have asked you or anyone else on this blog.
    Is there anyway you can get the video highlights of the game where Walter Jones puts Patrick Kerney in a brown bag? I think it was the year before the Seahawks signed Kerney.

    I remember the announcers being amazed at how easy Walt handled him like a little rag doll.
    I haven’t seen those highlights since that game and can’t find them anywhere.
    I hope you can find them and post it so some of the newer Seahawks fans can see just how dominant Big Walt was.


  68. rramstad says:

    I totally remember that game, Kerney didn’t even get a sniff of QB the entire game. It was an amazing performance, a top LT in Jones going against one of the best DE in the league who was having a career year, and Jones just shut him down, totally and completely.

  69. GeorgiaHawk says:

    rramstad I don’t know any high schools and/or colleges named after the N- word but if you look it up there are many Native American high schools with that name.
    It’s an interesting topic and I don’t feel strongly either way but I just don’t think the N-word is a fair comparison to the Redskins. Especially when it appears the word Redskin was used originally by the Native Americans in a positive way for decades.

  70. freedom_X says:

    Paul Allen was upfront about the stadium issue. And it was put to a vote. So, this being a democracy, the anti-stadium people can’t say the stadium was built against the people’s will (unlike Safeco Field.)

    Allen may be community-minded, but he wasn’t going to run a team at a loss to preserve NFL football in Seattle, and that’s why he demanded a new stadium as a prerequisite. So Seattle had a choice, and chose to build the stadium. It’s as above board as that type of matter is ever going to be.

    As an intermediary step towards the Redskins football team situation, the team should remove all Native American icons and references (i.e. stylized “Indian”, etc. ) so just the name remains with no team references to Native American culture. Then the next steps can be taken, if necessary, but that might defuse enough of the negative controversy. The current team clearly links the Redskins name with Native American culture.

  71. RDPoulsbo says:

    I think Redskins used in a positive way by Native Americans is an attempt to own it and take control of a term with negative connotations. The same can be said with blacks using the N word or gays calling each other queers. I’m ambivalent about Washington’s nickname, but it seems a change could be coming soon. I think the change will come because they’ve put a pretty bad product on the field for a while and the few times they’ve gotten to the playoffs under Snyder’s ownership, they were promptly booted out by the Seahawks. Speaking of Snyder, he’s losing the fanbase for things he does outside of football as well that don’t make it into the national media. Things like paying the Park Service to cut down trees in a nearby park so he can have a better view from his mansion. All these things are adding up and the current fanbase are losing connection with any sentimental need to keep the name. It just seems inevitable that the name will have to be changed sooner or later to keep a very restless fanbase happy since Snyder has been pretty bad so far at keeping them happy with the product on the field.

  72. RDPoulsbo says:

    Just to put the Behring era into perspective for those who’ve forgotten or too young, imagine an owner worse than Ralph Wilson who forces out a popular head coach that was taking the team to the playoffs every year, hired Al Davis to be the GM. Then Al thought he was so smart, he hires himself to coach and do all the scouting (remember the Raiders were Seattle’s most hated rivals at the time). Along the way, Skip Bayless was brought onboard to handle media and fan relations. That pretty much sums up being a Seahawk fan in the 90s. They were mocked as the Bengals in Blue back then for a reason.

  73. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Walter Jones played in 180 games, in 5,703 pass attempts Jones had only 9 holding penalties and allowed only 23 sacks.

    Yes, Jones deserves his hall spot now.

  74. 9 holding penalties! That’s astounding.

  75. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Wouldn’t it be great if we make it to the Super Bowl and Walter Jones gets chosen as a new member of the HOF the day before?

  76. Dukeshire says:

    “Wouldn’t it be great if we make it to the Super Bowl and Walter Jones gets chosen as a new member of the HOF the day before?”

    Both of those are happening.

  77. RDPoulsbo says:

    Since Jonathan Ogden was a 1st ballot HoFer this last go round, there is literally zero argument that can be made for Walt to also be a 1st ballot HoFer this year.

  78. GeorgiaHawk says:

    This is one of the best articles that I have read about Big Walt by Clare Farnsworth in 2010.
    A lot of good analysis of Walt by his teammates here-

  79. Dave Boling says:

    Thanks for that Walt video, Georgia. No, I don’t have one of the Kerney game, although I remember it. Except for maybe a game or two, I covered every game Walt played in, and have some great recollections. Maybe we’ll get into those with tomorrow morning’s Insider post since there’s not much going on otherwise.

  80. doubledink says:

    only 23 sacks and as Walt put it, “Some of those were the quarterback’s fault.” lol
    Pour the bronze, sew the jacket.

  81. raymaines says:

    At the 2:00 mark in GH’s video we see #8 throw a pass, and he launched it from just a little higher than his shoulder pass. MH is about 6 inches taller than RW but I’d bet RW’s launch point higher. And a person would have to be 7’4″ to actually see over the top of guys like Brenno G and all the 6’5″ guys on the line. Even the tall guys have to find sightlines and lanes.

  82. raymaines says:

    pass = pads, sorry

  83. GeorgiaHawk says:

    More Big Walt.

    Check out the Jones Soda part. Lol.

  84. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Dave- I’m looking forward to your recollections of Walter Jones. AKhawkFan is right Big Walt deserves more discussion on this blog.

  85. ChrisHolmes says:

    ““Wouldn’t it be great if we make it to the Super Bowl and Walter Jones gets chosen as a new member of the HOF the day before?”

    Both of those are happening.”

    I like your positive outlook @Dukeshire

  86. On Walt; He was the greatest O-lineman of all time, period. His only competition in my mind for that title is Jonathan Ogden and Jackie Slater. If he doesn’t make the HOF first ballot, it will be a freaking crime. If I get any more worked up about it, my head will explode…

    Pabs–I agree re Paul Allen and public money; it’s crap, and needs to be taken into account when judging his legacy. He’s also using the Hawks to push through his gentrification ( read; Yuppiefication) of the Seattle Working Waterfront, which sucks.

    However, he’s a great owner and the only reason we have our Hawks. I wouldn’t trade him.

  87. 4 sacks Walt gave up were to Demarcus Ware when Walt was playing on a mangled knee and was barely there…just saying…the man shut down pass rushers like no one ever…

  88. Tell me one owner or Major corporation that doesn’t take the tax payers hostage? Seriously

  89. raymaines says:

    I simply can’t believe Jim Irsay (INDY), Virginia McClaskey (CHI), Scott Biscotti (BLT), Jerry Jones (Dallas), and Robert Johnson (NYJ) would all be ranked ahead of PA. There are a lot of really good owners in the NFL so it would be hard to argue PA is in the top five or even the top ten, but Jim Irsay? Really? Come on, man!

  90. Dukeshire says:

    Allen didn’t hold tax payers hostage. He made a sound business decision that also benefited the entirety of the downtown area, directly. That stadium was what saved the franchise. If someone in Redmond, say, didn’t see the positive direct financial impact of his proposal and voted for it anyway, they ought not complain about it in retrospect. That’s how I see it anyway.

  91. raymaines says:

    Oh by the way….

    I’m looking forward to a beat down on Monday, Dec. 2nd.

    Seattle scores early, scores often and then runs out the clock. Everybody on the east coast goes to bed in the middle of the third quarter. People in N.O. would be jumping off of bridges except that all of their bridges are below sea level. Productivity in Seattle on Tuesday Dec 3rd sets an all time low.

    Geoux ‘Hawks

  92. Paul Allen is a good owner but let’s face it – this was a shrewd investment by PA. He paid $197M for the team in 1997. Paul Allen contributed $130M to build the stadium, the public paid the remainder, about $360M. Mr Allen’s total investment in the Seahawks was about $330M. The team was recently valued at about $1.1B. That is a 300% return on his investment, and the team has been profitable every year.

    What does the city of Seattle and the State of WA get if PA sells the team? Nothing, even though they invested more in this thing than he did.

    I love the Seahawks and I voted in favor of the State of Washington funding the stadium in 1997, but realistically, PA is making off like a bandit on this deal. I really think that if public funds are going to be used, then they should be an equal partner with the owner and get a payout when/if the team is sold.

  93. raymaines says:

    good luck with that Pilot

  94. raymaines says:

    On This Date:

    1987: Dave Krieg passes for two touchdowns and runs for a third and the defense holds the Chargers to 156 yards in a 34-3 victory at the Kingdome. The win proves to be vital in the strike-interrupted season, as the Seahawks advance to the playoffs with a 9-6 record and the Chargers finish 8-7.

  95. Seattle scores early . . . .. . We really have not done that a bunch over the last few years. Really not, philosophy wise, built that way. I will love it if we do!!!!

  96. jawpeace says:

    Jones soda was hilarious!

  97. Southendzone says:

    Ranking PA that low is a joke. Whether or not he made money on purchasing the Hawks and the public contribution doesn’t mean squat. The Kingdome was a crumbling cess-pool and the Hawks were nearly stolen from us.

    PA is like a white knight, crossed with Ghandi, who was bitten by a radioactive spider and given superpowers. Lest any of you forget, here’s a reminder, from the hands down best moment in QWEST field history,—Paul-Allen/cd465a62-e836-4891-9488-3316f5dbf616

    -His dad took him to Husky games
    -A passion was born

  98. montanamike2 says:
  99. rramstad says:

    @Pilot, in a good business partnership, both sides win. Mr. Allen certainly made a bunch of money, that’s not to be argued, but think of the economic loss if the Seahawks had gone away and the Sounders had remained a minor league team playing most of their games in Tukwila or Everett. The Kingdome would have been torn down and there would be no boat shows, concerts, etc in that area either. The economic loss to Seattle would be devastating and Pioneer Square would have lost one of the things that make it unique — there are not many places in the world where a major historic area is immediately adjacent to an NFL stadium.

  100. confucious says:

    rramstad, The N word is derogatory and should not be used in any context. For it to be used acceptably only by African Americans is a double standard and thereby racist. In fact, “blacks” used to be the acceptable term for referencing the African american people, now it’s not okay. By the way it’s politically correct to call me “white”.

    The more politically correct we have to be, the harder it is going to be to integrate. It can be nerve wracking holding a discussion with someone from a different culture and trying not to offend. It takes patience and leniency from both parties.

    It is wrong to force the Redskins organization to change it’s name which was established well before the new politically correct rules were in play. If they want to change it, then fine. Otherwise more power to them.

    Sorry to go off topic.

  101. Asking anyone to be politically correct is nauseating. Telling them to be pc is immoral.

  102. As I said, I voted for the Stadium back in ’97. But it was only Seattle that carried the vote to 51%. The rest of WA was firmly against it. I am not convinced that the state or the public should be helping billionaires make more money off of sports franchises. But of course this is the wrong venue to be making that case, so nuff said.

  103. jawpeace says:

    One thing you have to consider from the Bleacher Report is that the players that are free agents account for over 20 million in cap space. Add in those that will be cut and I can add Rice. And the Hawks have around 27 million plus the estimated $8.7 million. Next off season the Hawks will have roughly around 35 million to work with. We can conclude a couple of things it is not as doom and gloom as it appears and like other teams do the Hawks will lose some good players.

  104. UFA’s don’t count, sorry. Rice will free approx. 7.3 mil. They don’t have a bunch of space, but they can keep those needed.

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