Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Things not going well in Atlanta

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Nov. 6, 2013 at 6:15 am with 102 Comments »
November 6, 2013 12:30 am

Good morning.

Things aren’t good in Atlanta for the Falcons. How bad are they? Freddie Falcon, the Atlanta mascot, had to apologize because of an insensitive tweet following a suicide prevention walk he represented the Falcons at.

I wrote about some of the issues this year for the Falcons after strong expectations coming into the season.

Links:

> Seahawks.com focuses on Marshawn Lynch, who is back to second in the NFL in rushing.

> The Seahawks are fourth in the ESPN power rankings.

> Steve Smith was impressed with Tacoma native and Atlanta cornerback Desmond Trufant.

> The “refocus” from Pro Football Focus on the Seahawks’ win over the Bucs.

> Old friend Mike Sando on whether the Seahawks will be able to retain Richard Sherman. Going forward, be prepared for a lot of these types of hypothetical, what-if stories about Seahawks heading toward free agent years. Sando is a good resource for reliable information and logical conclusions, as most of you know. Listen to what he says. But, beware of people who write a lot of stories predicated on “league sources” and talk about how much a certain player is worth or not. Those are often stories with info being fed to a writer from agents who are trying to work the market for their player.

> A change ahead for former Seahawk John Moffitt:

> Midseason All-Pro teams from MMQB.

> Richie Incognito speaks, and it’s printable.

> Falcons linebacker Sean Weatherspoon is trying to get back.

> There’s a possibility, though it sounds slight, that Aldon Smith could play for the 49ers Sunday.

> Aaron Rodgers has a broken collarbone.

> Jerry Rice says he doesn’t think the NFL should give up on the Pro Bowl.

> This is NFL related and too good not to post. Click. I’m telling you.

Leave a comment Comments → 102
  1. montanamike2 says:

    I’ll be rooting hard for the Panthers this weekend.

  2. Dukeshire says:

    Holy cow, that’s hilarious, Todd! Lol! To that woman, like a buddy says, “Don’t let your alligator mouth write checks your cannery ass can’t cash.” Incredible…

  3. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    I’m not too worried about the front office retaining Sherman and Earl Thomas at the end of the season. They can always get a deal done with one of them; then, they can use the franchise tag designation on the other. Moreover, if I recall correctly, about a year ago, or so, the Legion of Boom spoke about how important it was for them to remain together–even if that meant working for less than they deserve. Perhaps it was all just talk. However, I do believe that they all want to remain Seahawks.

    Sunday will probably be the best football Sunday of the season, so far. First, we have an opportunity to get revenge on the Falcons for putting us out of the playoffs. The team should have revenge on it’s mind, and the fact that the Falcons are suffering from the injury bug hopefully will ensure a multiple score victory for the Seahawks. Right after that game, at 4:00 p.m., the 49rs play a legitimate Panthers team. I would happily go without sex for two weeks, if we beat the Falcons and the 49rs lose to the Panthers. Moreover, the week after that the 49rs play the Saints. No matter the outcome of that game, the Seahawks will have more breathing room for the top NFC seed (can you say win win).

  4. aelliott11 says:

    I’ve seen multiple sources talking about how great Michael Bennett has been for the Hawks this year, including PFF’s evaluation of this week’s game. So why is he only getting 35% of the snaps?

  5. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    Isn’t Michael Bennett more of a pass rusher than a run stopper. Does such a distinction exist? If so, isn’t our defensive line comprised mostly of the former–which may explain why we’re giving up so many rushing yards?

  6. CanuckFan says:

    Hey Folks,

    I believe there is at least one of you in the Atlanta area (GeorgiaHawk?), but am wondering if there are others. I live in Vancouver, BC, and am heading to Atlanta this weekend for the game. Also taking in some college hoops Friday evening (Georgia Tech, I believe), and then college ball on Saturday (Georgia Bulldogs). However, I’m wondering if anyone can recommend some good eats in the area, and a good place to watch the 49ers/Panthers game after the Hawks/Falcons game? Any suggestions would be appreciated, as well as any potential tourist attractions (I know of the Coke factory, CNN building…). Thanks in advance!

  7. CDHawkFan says:

    One good thing about these close games, it must really piss off the 9ers fans thinking they might get closer.

    Moffitt made roughly 1.5 million over his 2+ years. He must have really disliked it all so good for him for walking away. It will take me 4-5 years to make what Moffitt walked away from in 2013. That’s 4-5 years of working everyday compared to working out and standing on the slideline for 2-3 months.

    Again, he must have hated football/the NFL.

    Doesn’t the NFL pension scheme kick in if you have at least 3 years of service?

  8. GeorgiaHawk says:

    CanuckFan- I don’t have much time right now but check in later in the evening and I will give you some options for things to do.

    BTW- What’s up with big Red? The Seahawks played much better with Bennett in there imo.

  9. Bennett has done a terrific job this year. I also would like him to get more time on the field. The reason he doesn’t is pretty simple – on run downs he has Chris Clemons and Red Bryant ahead of him at DE and bigger players (Mebane, McDaniel etc.) at the interior DT spots. This means he is primarily seeing time on 3rd down either replacing Red at DE or one of teh interior DT’s.

    If Red is unable to play this week (concussion) I will be interested to see if they use Bennett on early down in Reds DE spot.

  10. HawkFromDay1 says:

    Ya know, every time I wonder if my life is going in the right direction, a story comes along about a stun-gun wielding Wisconsin couple and their dog living in an 18-wheeler.

    They really buried the lead on this: I’d like to know if the dog is OK.

    Thanks for the perspective Todd…

  11. dirtbiker_joey says:

    In regard to the Incognito thing, and I know this is going to drag out as more information comes to light, but I think a line was definitely crossed and something needs to be done.

    Face is, hazing is real and it happens. Not just in the NFL. We are all aware of hazing as a rite of passage for rushing pledges at fraternities or new plebes at the military academies. For the most part, the hazing serves a purpose – building camaraderie, initiation into a “brotherhood” – and is in good fun. But there are lines that get crossed, and at those times, behavior need to be reigned in.

    We’ve seen fraternities and the academies go through it already. There is nothing wrong with hazing. When it gets abusive and personal, though, a line has been crossed.

    We need to make a decision. When I say we, I mean Roger Goodell and the NFL owners in this case, but really, society in general. We need to decide where that line is. Most of us, I would hope, innately know where that line is and would never cross it. That’s part of our moral compass. Unfortunately, there are individuals who either don’t have, or choose to ignore their moral compass. Or become caught up in group think and go beyond the bounds of human decency. Some people have never had boundaries set for them (or never enforced anyway). Most colleges have now set those boundaries for fraternities, as have leaders at our military academies. Now it’s the NFL’s turn.

    The other decision is what to do with Incognito. Does the NFL make an example out of him? I cannot believe that he is solely culpable here. He’s a veteran and in some way or another, his behavior has been accepted, maybe even encouraged, throughout his career. Culpability goes well beyond the individual. Can you throw him out of the league? If so, there are many others who SHOULD go down with him. Alternatively, does he get a chance to change his stripes, along with anyone else who is found to have contributed to this mess.

  12. yankinta says:

    LOL @ all that haters on the comment thread…. It is getting more and more fun for me to read the hateful comments…. The more they hate, the more we are in their heads… :)

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/seattle-seahawks/0ap2000000276822/Have-the-Seahawks-been-exposed

  13. ChrisHolmes says:

    That was a sad story.

    Sad that there really are people that dumb.

  14. ChrisHolmes says:

    “For the most part, the hazing serves a purpose – building camaraderie, initiation into a “brotherhood” – and is in good fun.”

    I stopped reading right there.

    I was in the military. Hazing serves none of those purposes.

    The only thing hazing does is make a newcomer feel unwelcome, ostracized, unequal and unjustly punished. It’s simply another form of bullying. Period.

    Camaraderie and brotherhood are forged through time spent together under situations of adversity and stress, working as a team and succeeding in achieving united goals. None of that happens during hazing.

    You don’t build camaraderie from hazing. You build camaraderie from going through a camp together, facing the same obstacles together, and succeeding together. All hazing does is build ill-will.

    It’s hard to go into a “battle”, be it a sport or a war zone, and trust the guy next to you when he’s the one who has been hazing you, taking money from you, demeaning you and belittling you in front of your other team members.

    Hazing has no place anywhere.

  15. pabuwal says:

    Well said.

  16. yankinta, I liked that video you posted. Really pumped me full of optimism when I heard LT say that you subconsciously think “yeah these guys are winless, we’re gonna win easy” then you play down to their level. Means that the problems can be corrected a lot easier than what I would have previously thought.

    I’m genuinely worried about them playing down to Atlanta’s level. The Seahawks are absolutely the better team. That being said, if they play down to their level, it won’t end well… I feel like the falcons really aren’t THAT bad, and a few correctable mistakes being corrected could/could have salvaged their season.

    I think Seattle goes in there with the sick feeling in their stomachs about being knocked out of playoff contention, then watching the niners go to the super bowl, and just hammer the hell out of them. Hopefully, Seattle is the first team in the NFL to score over 100 points.

    I also think that the coaching staff is leaving a few tricks in the bag for when they’re desperate, which may come this sunday, or super bowl sunday.

    Either way, I think this team is going to be ok. If the Seahawks, Panthers, and Dallas can all win (Panthers beating SF, and Dallas beating NO, both very plausible scenarios), the Seahawks are super glued into the drivers seat for the first seed in the NFC and a stronghold on the NFC West.

    This sunday is going to be VERY important.

  17. Chris, how many former dolphins offensive linemen have you talked to? They didn’t TAKE money. They all put 15,000 away to go to vegas on vacation for camaraderie. The media reaaaaalllly is blowing this up.

  18. jacobhawkr says:

    Heading to game on Sunday. First I hope they win. Second anyone know where some other fans might be pregame?

  19. dirtbiker_joey says:

    ChrisHolms, thanks for the counterpoint. The merits of hazing form the framework of an ongoing debate, with credible experts coming down on both sides. Certainly you and I have had difference life experiences that shape our individual opinions.

    In either case, action must be taken by the NFL and boundaries set. And I am proud to support a team that would not tolerate this type of behavior.

  20. rramstad says:

    Hear hear. I am a member of a fraternity (Beta Theta Pi) and the position of the membership has absolutely changed over time, from 30 or so years ago where it was a “boys will be boys” sort of attitude towards it and also a nod towards tradition, where now, hazing of any kind is not allowed and in fact it’s expected that you would testify against your brothers if there was an incident. Hazing serves no useful purpose.

    Now that said, there are duties and responsibilities of pledges that are different than actives. In our house, pledges clean the kitchen, it’s been that way forever, and largely because coursework the first year is easier than in later years. They cook pizza on Friday nights, again, this is mostly a team building exercise, and they can organize it as they see fit, either a large group doing it for a short time or have a schedule with three or four men taking a week, and so on. They learn songs of the fraternity and can be asked to sing them. They learn history of the fraternity and can be asked to recount a story or anecdote from the history. They are required to have a short personal interview with every other member of the chapter. They are required to make a trip away from the house with their pledge brothers.

    All of this is in service to the idea that they should be tied more closely to the house than they are when they pledge… and that means interacting with each other and the actives. It’s all positive.

    So, having the rookies ride bikes to practice, or carry helmets, or having funny hair day, or stealing someone’s jock strap, well, that’s pretty clean fun, and in my mind not a big deal. With the CBA forcing rookies to pay for things for veterans is just ridiculous. It’s just beyond the pale to use racist language, especially specific and extremely demeaning racist language, with someone that’s your teammate!

  21. chuck_easton says:

    ChrisHolmes,

    Very well said. As a guy who played varsity sports in high school and college baseball, then went on to a 5 year stint as a police officer I can state that any form of hazing of the rookie/recruit does nothing but alienate the recruit.

    I can understand the idea of ‘putting the rookie in his place’ because there are stories of high first round picks coming into camp acting as if they’d ‘already made it’. But there are ways to handle that problem that do not involve hazing, harrassment, or extortion of money.

    I’m sure the military had similar processes as the police. Rookies were on station clean up duty, rookies had to do the coffee runs for the station personell (didn’t have to pay, just go pick up the coffee), rookies got assigned the boring perimeter posts in operations, and rookies were assigned the calls that were particularly ugly, boring, or time consuming.

    None of the above does anything to cause harm, belittle, mental distress, or create a hostile work environment, but the message is sent. The rookie needs to earn his place in on the team. It isn’t handed out.

    Rookies having to carry the practice equipment to/from the field? Fine. Rookies having to arrive early for extra meetings? OK. Rookies having to pick up donuts? Ok, but the vets should pay. Rookies being responsible for picking up the towels in the locker room? Not a problem.

  22. Rockyseahawk says:

    Gotta love Pete for creating an environment where you know that kind of thing would never happen in Seattle.

  23. yankinta says:

    RADEoN,, I agree with you. But to be honest,, I was not worried At All, all throughout the game, even being down 21-0,, because I knew RW would not allow us to lose. RW still has not lost a game by more than 7 points, in his Young Career. I knew that we’d be within 7 points at the last few minutes in the 4th qtr and he’d somehow make sure that we wouldn’t lose…. :)

    I’d like the entire nation to keep doubting us and giving praise to their favorite teams (some are extremely lucky),, we’ll give them a Rude Awakening at the end of the season and in the playoff. :)

  24. aelliott11 says:

    Guys, it’s not “hazing” or “bullying”. This is not grade school or high school or college. This is a professional workplace. It’s called “harassment”. And there should be a zero tolerance policy for it, just like every other workplace in the US. Period.

    Also, Incognito was a scum bag even before this. He got kicked off Nebraska AND Oregon. Can you imagine how hard it is for a productive player to get kicked off the team at Nebraska, much less Oregon? All those games against him when he was with the Rams, we saw first hand what a dirt bag he was.

  25. it’s pretty funny how sensitive people are

  26. Screensmoke says:

    Sttbm- the first day this came out I Hurd the recording-the way he said these things is the point I’m trying to make – the guys a jerk that’s not debatable atleast to me- but in the message that was left in April for gentleman he was laughing and being sarcastic – u could tell he wasn’t seriously threatening him- that’s the point I’m trying to make here. One other thing is I’m not saying I’m right about this whole thing I could be totally wrong. When u Hurd the message it was clear that cognito was rud, twisted and sick but not threatening him on a serious matter that’s really my point- obviously he felt threatened and maybe that’s all that matters-my experience is that’s the way this has gone for years and ok maybe it is time for change? like dirt bike Joey said we can’t punish one bad apple when there is plenty more in the barrel- and yes most people wont agree but I would sign cognito today to a contract for the rest of the year. Kill me if u want to that’s ok- trust me I won’t take it personal.

  27. Dude! Come on guys. Who here has never been hazed?

    It happens everywhere.

    Mostly its all in good fun. Dirtbiker’s right, when it gets personal or abusive is when it becomes a problem. I would add: or when it makes someone do something illegal.

  28. ChrisHolmes says:

    “Chris, how many former dolphins offensive linemen have you talked to? They didn’t TAKE money.”

    Yeah they did. Martin didn’t go on that trip.

    Imagine someone bullies you into giving up $500 for a “group trip” that you don’t want to go on and won’t attend, and you’re afraid that if you do NOT give the money you’ll be further bullied, what do you call that? It’s the same as taking. Without the bullying involved, Martin doesn’t give that money up at all and has no reason to give it up.

    You keep right on talking to former dolphins offensive linemen. I know bullying when I see it. This isn’t blown out of proportion at all. A guy doesn’t leave the team for no reason.

  29. thursday says:

    Also like that video. Interesting they both said no big deal, that’s how I’m inclined to think as well. Because honestly how else to you explain them suddenly being able to do what they want with the Bucs in the second half? The Bucs just suddenly sucked? Nah, I think the Seahawks just stopped sucking.

  30. montanamike2 says:

    I never got hazed. I’m grateful to the US Army for my excellent medical education that i never would have gotten. We were encouraged to be a team because that guy might save your life one day, you never know. In my fourth year i was power tripped on by a Napoleon who was an exchange soldier from some tiny country in Africa, there’s no way he could have met the height requirement of ours. I left the Army because of the many types like him, it was fun when i requested him to award me my stripes.

  31. ChrisHolmes says:

    @chuck_easton

    Your comments are spot-on. Prior to that post I had no idea who you were, just another Seahawks fan. After reading that: much respect to you.

    “I’m sure the military had similar processes as the police. Rookies were on station clean up duty, rookies had to do the coffee runs for the station personell (didn’t have to pay, just go pick up the coffee), rookies got assigned the boring perimeter posts in operations, and rookies were assigned the calls that were particularly ugly, boring, or time consuming.”

    Yep. When I went to tech school (what comes after Basic Training; was a 6-month school for me) there was a clear hierarchy at work. Guys and gals who had been there longer had weekends free. Newbies cleaned bathrooms, waxed the dorm floors, took out trash, etc. It wasn’t hazing by any stretch. It’s just what you did as a new person. Responsibilities. You paid your dues, and when the next flight of boot camp grads arrived, at tech school, you showed them the ropes and they took over. And then you had your whole weekend free.

    The work had to be done. That’s the thing. It’s your living space. You’re treating it with respect, and by proxy, treating everyone else with respect. Bathrooms have to be clean, floors have to be waxed, trash has to be taken out. Seniority is a perfectly legitimate way to divvy up those responsibilities. At no time were any of those chores done in a way that was meant to belittle or demean the new guys, or give them undue stress.

    When I got to my permanent duty assignment I spent my first month in a tool shop before I got my real assignment. Again, a lot of menial work and such. But nothing like hazing…

    “Rookies having to carry the practice equipment to/from the field? Fine. Rookies having to arrive early for extra meetings? OK. Rookies having to pick up donuts? Ok, but the vets should pay. Rookies being responsible for picking up the towels in the locker room? Not a problem.”

    Exactly.

    There are “chores” that have to be done, things that are a matter of convenience, etc… By all means – have a seniority system in place. It’s a rite of initiation type of thing. We’ve all been there. But I wouldn’t call it hazing. It’s not meant to be punitive or demeaning or create ill-will.

    What Incognito did… crossed way, WAY over any line.

    You start bullying a guy for his paycheck and you’ve gone off the deep end. You coerce/taunt/intimidate/bully a man into giving up his money… You’re just wrong.

  32. I’d love it if we could get back to talking about Hawks football. All this other stuff is just noise. There’s a huge game down in the ATL this weekend and exacting revenge on the team that fortuitously (yet barely) knocked us out last year is all I can pretty much focus on.

    Other than D. Trufant and Osi, I can’t name another Falcon defender. Carolina put a whooping on them and I think we’re still a little better than the Panthers.

    I do want us to continue to run some Beast mode, but at the same time, would like to keep him fresh for down the stretch. Michael was the surprise draft pick this year (like both Irvin and Carpenter have been as well), but is his lack of pass protection still preventing him from seeing the field or is Turbo just that much better? I think Michael has a burst that doesn’t exact with Lynch and Turbin and seemingly would be perfect as a change of pace player when the situation calls for it.

    I also saw that Ramses Barden came in for a try out. I think I recall him having a pretty big game for the Giants last year in some spot duty. Kind of that bigger bodied guy we’re now missing with Sid out. I’m kind of interested to see if he pans out.

    Regarding the offensive line, I think we’ll be fine for another week. All these back ups are getting valuable experience that could serve us well if we encounter injuries later in the year and postseason. It’s not ideal, but we’ll be ok.

    From my seat on Sunday, I thought Red was getting picked on quite a bit. I’m wondering if he’s not more hurt than just his concussion. It seems like every year about this time, our run defense falls off. The LB’s did have a bad game against the Bucs…I wonder if we’ll see more Malcom Smith and at who’s expense?

    All in all, 8-1 feels pretty damn good. 9-1 would feel just that much better. As long as #3 is back there making magic, I like our chances.

    GO HAWKS!

  33. Screensmoke says:

    So I guess we are all wrong for supporting and loving a sport that has been doing these in excusable behaviors for years- especially the money thing that is something that is known practice for years- I don’t get it?

  34. thursday says:

    I can’t decide if I love or hate that SI article lol. I like the grudging respect, but I dislike the vaguely mocking tone.

  35. Again, I will post the post made on facebook by someone that I know, that used to play WITH BOTH INCOGNITO AND MARTIN.

    And for this $15K richie demanding money crap…LOL, THE media are brainwashing jokes. The trip to vegas is planned MONTHS in advance, we order a private Jet etc…book hotels, clubs..the whole 9 yards. EVERYONE pays in advance….when the trip finally came, Martin backed out…WELL GUESS WHAT?! ITS ALREADY PAID FOR BROTHER… unfortunately, and yes it sucks, but he lost out on the $15k and it was relayed he isnt getting paid back…..THE MEDIA IS THE BIGGEST JOKES AROUND, THEY KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THE SITUATION. somebody post this crap up so ppl know…im tired of reading “sources” …i was there first hand for multiple years and Martin was there too…he is being a complete baby about the situation.

  36. Southendzone says:

    Radeon..

    WE GET IT, you know someone who is or was in the NFL. When I was a kid, Jim Zorn sent me an autographed picture when I wrote him a fan mail, but you don’t see me posting a link to it in every TnT Seahawk blog thread.

    It was kind of interesting once.. a little less the 2nd time, and just useless now. Give it a rest please.

  37. All that proves is the guy posting is a bozo as well

  38. But it seems that regardless of what the truth is, nobody seems to care, and they act like Incognito went to the guys house and just stole 15,000 dollars in cash.

  39. WiscCory says:

    jacobhawkr – track down GeorgiaHawk for some tips. Otherwise BWW is always a place to find common sports friends.

  40. chuck_easton says:

    Seattle has a chance to assure a winning record on the road with a win this weekend (or in any 1 of the 3 remaining road games). There aren’t many seasons in Seahawk history that the team can say that.

    In Seattle’s previous 37 Seasons they have had winning records 16 seasons. They have finished .500 four seasons.

    So Seattle has had 20 seasons finishing .500 or better and only 17 losing seasons. That doesn’t sound too bad. Until you look at Seattle’s history on the road.

    Winning Road Record: 2 Seasons
    2005 – 5-3 on the road (all losses were on the road)
    1984 – 5-3 on the road

    4-4 on the road: 11 Seasons
    78,79,83,88,89,90,99,04,06

    3-5 on the Road: 9 Seasons
    85,86,94,95,96,2000,01,07,12

    2-6 on the Road: 6 Seasons
    91,93,98,03,08,11

    1-7 on the Road: 4 Seasons
    81,92,09,10

    1-6 on the Road: 2 Seasons (14 game Schedule)
    76,77

    3-4 on the Road: 1 Season (15 game schedule – Players strike)
    1987

    1-3 on the Road: 1 Season (9 game schedule – Lock out)
    1982

    So in Seattle’s 37 year history there have only been 2 seasons where the team had a winning road record. And only 13 of 37 Seasons where Seattle was .500 or better on the road.

    That is 24 years of road losing records out of 37. Now you know why Seattle has that reputation of being a bad road team.

    Some other interesting stats. There have been 3 seasons where all of Seattle’s losses were on the road and they were perfect at home (03,05,12). There was one season where all the wins the team had were road wins and they lost every home game (1980).

  41. btw look for his article in sports illustrated tomorrow :o

  42. WiscCory says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9eAQlVK-Lg

    Not sure whoe this fan is, but it’s a pretty cool self-made video from 2009 season opener. About 10 minutes long.

    The reason I post it is because there are some plays involving Ingognito, which reminds us of what a douche he is. His appearances are at the 6:00, 6:41, and 9:50 marks.

    It’s amazing how much the team has changed in the course of the past few years.

  43. I’m interested in if this guy has anything about the angle where the coaches had Incognito call Martin and leave those messages.

  44. yankinta says:

    I love this Analysis on RW…. MMS (Makes me Smile) :)

    ANALYSIS
    Wilson’s Seahawks, who have dreams of spending early February in New Jersey, were down 21-0 to the winless Buccaneers and just sort of somehow won. His numbers aren’t on the level of these other guys, but man. If your dishwasher broke down and flooded your kitchen two hours before 20 people were supposed to arrive for a dinner party and you just had no idea how you were going to get things together in time, it seems as though you could do worse than to call Wilson. Problems don’t seem to faze the kid very much.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/98889/dan-grazianos-mvp-watch-10

  45. Haven’t listened much about the Incognito-Martin kerfuffle, to me it doesn’t have much to do with football. Maybe espree de corps stuff, but peripheral to the c’est la guarre of actual football. So, if Incognito (strange name) is out from MIA and should clear waivers, I wouldn’t be too surprised (nor upset) if SEA added him. His play on the field has been very good – especially compared to the play of our guards. If Cable couldn’t make Richard learn SEA’s ZBS plus control himself as a contributing member of the Seahawks inside the VMAC, then out he’d go, no muss, no fuss. Incognito hasn’t been a penalty magnet for MIA and wouldn’t be expected to here, either.

  46. rramstad says:

    RADEoN, I had Mike Tice, at the time the Seahawks tight end, come to my elementary school and lecture about the dangers of drugs. I shook hands with him afterwards. Just wanted to make sure you know that you aren’t the only one with high placed NFL sources.

  47. rramstad says:

    Incognito will never wear a Seahawks uniform. Don’t feed the trolls.

    (I base this on the appearance that some significant amount of the decision to cut Moffitt was likely due to his causing the locker room to be too light and ridiculous and some conjecture that he made some comments on some videos that angered some of his teammates… If the front office released Moffitt partially due to those factors, there’s no freaking way they’d ever let anyone like Incognito even come for a visit.)

  48. They released Moffitt because he came into camp out of shape, didn’t seem to give his all and appeared he just didn’t care about football.

  49. montanamike2 says:

    I tend to agree with that rramstad, we don’t need the media scrutiny or the chemistry issues no matter the talent. I don’t think the fans would like it either.

  50. doubledink says:

    One of the reasons this Miami story has gained so much traction is because of its relative application to all of us. Sports are a mirror of our culture or parts of it. “Locker rooms” exist in every organization we are a part of, not just sports. In the industrial setting, apprentices have to earn their stripes like everyone else. They get the dirty and often menial tasks partly because they are tests of the person’s mettle. To see if they can cut it.

    Any study of women entering the industrial scene during WWII and the decades following show the cultural change that ensued, sometimes very difficultly. It was a man’s world and it wasn’t always pretty. We have seen a huge cultural shift in the general workplace and this issue is fast becoming part of that change.

    That said, the mindset that is required to be a policeman, firefighter, soldier or professional athlete is different than that of an accountant. In my industry the difference between shop guys and field guys is day and night. A pro locker room is chock full of Alpha-male types and some folks may be drawn to the sport at lower levels for the hope of money or fame down the road only to find out when they get to that level that they don’t really fit or like the atmosphere. Matt Coffee was one. John Moffit may be another.

    What I find very interesting in this is that coaches allegedly put Richie up to this. I’ve led men for years and can’t imagine ever asking my ‘troops’ to do my responsibility of developing my staff, especially in a negative way. The guy may not have the mettle for it, but my job is to help them to grow into it or manage their deficiencies or sometimes encourage them to find a better fit if they are unable to stay the course. This will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

  51. Incognito has been playing for MIA like ’05 Hutch did for SEA. I don’t expect him to make it through waivers if cut. The biggest question is what Goodell would do with him – almost single-handedly destroying the NFL shield. Maybe the NFL puts a lifetime ban on him(?)

  52. thursday says:

    jacobhawkr – there’s a whole event thing on Facebook for 12s going to the Atlanta game. Like, everyone’s meeting at some bar or something plus tailgating before the game. Looks pretty cool, wish I was going lol

  53. seahawkNJ says:

    I have a few friends that knew and coached Richie Incognito when he was a kid 5th,6th,7th grade. Without fail they all agree that he was a bully and a punk. With that being said I would still wait for all the facts to come out. If Martin agreed to a trip and then backed out at the last second then he should still have to pay for his ticket. Why should the rest of the lineman eat that cost? If that is what happened.

    I also played sports in high school, and was in the Army and I can tell you that I was absolutely hazed and that there is value in it, as long as it doesn’t cross the line. It gives your new peers a chance to evaluate you as a person to see how you respond to some adversity. It forces you to think for yourself – I’ll only search for a box of grid-squares once. I guess it also depends on your definition of hazing. Carrying another grown mans equipment to or from the field is hazing and I don’t have a problem with it.

    I should also point out that at some time while I was in service either the Army as a whole, or at least my unit, implemented a ban on hazing.

  54. Rockyseahawk says:

    CanuckFan,
    I’m not from Atlanta but I go there quite a bit for business.
    Two of my favorite restaurants are contemporary/novelle southern cooking.
    They are: South City Kitchen and Southern Art ( Southern Art has a ham bar!)
    Also a really great more casual place is Farm Burger.
    Cheers

  55. chuck_easton says:

    Maimi can suspend Incognito without pay for up to 4 games. After that they must allow him to return to the team or waive him. They will most assuredly put the 4 game suspension in place as it means they save 4 weeks of salary. They can then cut him and only owe him 3 game checks.

  56. Singularitarian says:

    I think the part where he says “you half N*&^%” is the real problem. You can talk all the shit you want, but don’t bring a man’s race into it and a white nfl player has no business ever dropping the N word. the idea that calling a guy the N word when he obviously doesn’t appreciate it can bring players together is beyond comprehension

  57. Singularitarian says:

    That being said I wouldn’t be surprised if Seattle picked him up if they were able. Carroll and Cable would make it very clear that no such behavior would be accepted. No team needs the help more than Seattle

  58. CanuckFan says:

    Thanks for the ideas folks, I’ll definitely check out the facebook page and also check back tonight for Georgia’s thought…

  59. chuck_easton says:

    And now there are other black players saying that Incognito is ‘more black’ than Martin because Martin had the nerve to be raised by well off and educated parents who were able to provide a better standard of living for him. So being black isn’t about skin color? It’s really about being raised in the ‘hood’ and having to go through things?

    This is what I don’t get. Martin is being ostrasized by the other African-American players because he didn’t grow up poor.

    And this brings up one of the biggest issues with society right now. It really isn’t about race. It’s about economic status. If you were raised poor and in a bad neighborhood you are owed something.

    If you were raised in a nice neighborhood with parents that could provide better schooling, better clothing, and a better lifestyle then you aren’t REALLY a minority.

  60. thursday says:

    Personally I’d rather we bring Martin aboard over Incognito. I’ve heard nothing but bad things about him the entire time he’s been in the league, from teammates as well as opposing players. But I’m not enthused about either one because the last thing we need over here is anyone who enjoys causing drama.

  61. “…Carrying another grown mans equipment to or from the field is hazing and I don’t have a problem with it…”

    Uhhhhh… We are different there because I would have a problem carrying a “grown mans equipment”. lol

  62. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Let’s hope this week is where our D line finds a way to limit the rushing yards. Falcons Rushing ranked (32nd) 64.4 yds/gm.
    Our D should also benefit with Roddy White still limited with ankle and hamstring issues.
    Maybe our O line finds success as well. Defensive tackle Corey Peters, their best D lineman had mri Monday and could be out.

  63. tealskin says:

    Chuck- Think the issue is more about attitude. Martin is seen as soft and not a team player. His behavior kind of supports that conclusion. The problem was the remedy. They should have cut or traded him if he didn’t fit in. NFL seems like an environment that seeks an “all in” mentality. Maybe even needs it. Incognito seems like a jerk that fits in.

  64. ChrisHolmes says:

    Just to get back to some football for a second:

    I thought this article, particularly with the graphics, was really well done. A great piece of work:

    http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/06/robert-griffin-washington-redskins-pocket-passer/

    Gives a little insight into the QB position and what some of these guys can and can’t do.

    RGIII is beginning to remind me of Meier.

  65. Tampa and St. Louis were ranked near the bottom of the league in rushing offense too, before we played them. What do you make of the drop-off in the Seahawks rushing defense coinciding with the return of Bobby Wagner? I love Wags, and it’s only a sample set of two, but. . . is there something there?

  66. doubledink says:

    OrrObb,
    Dave Wyman thinks so.

  67. ChrisHolmes says:

    “Think the issue is more about attitude. Martin is seen as soft and not a team player. His behavior kind of supports that conclusion.”

    Strongly disagree with that statement.

    First of all, you cannot judge someone’s commitment to a team of guys based on his non-acceptance of bullying and hazing. Martin might be the best guy – most trustworthy guy – to have with you in the foxhole when you’re not bullying him, calling him a n*gger and taking his paycheck as if it were his lunch money and treating the kid like he’s in 2nd grade again. So you can’t know that at all, and I think it’s complete B.S. to say that.

    I don’t find Martin soft at all. I think it takes tremendous courage to stand up to bullies like this. He had to know his career was going to be jeopardized, at least for this season, if not beyond, when he walked out of the facility. He had to know this was going to create a storm and a media frenzy. He knew he’d take lumps. He did it anyway. Kudos to him. It’s a helluva lot more courageous to stand up to Incognito this way than to succumb to the pressure of the hazing and bullying and try and keep your mouth shut when you know it’s wrong and you just want to punch the guy in the face.

    Martin is a smart, educated guy. It makes total sense that he would have enough of Incognito’s B.S. behavior. There’s no place for this kind of stuff. Hazing serves no purpose. Intelligent people have known this for a while. Like @chuck_easton said: it only alienates the new guy. Perioid.

    And then on top of it you bully the guy for money? His paycheck? His way of life? Use a racial slur against him? Even in jest, that’s B.S.

    No, anyone who thinks Martin is soft isn’t paying attention. Martin’s the tough guy here. Incognito is the softy. It takes a real wussy to bully other people.

    Guys like Incognito have been bullying kids for their lunch money for decades. I’m glad Martin finally did what he did. Now maybe this will get the attention it deserves from the league.

  68. thursday says:

    @chrisholmes agree 100%

  69. dirtbiker_joey says:

    re: the MMQB link that ChrisHolmes posted.

    “Every great NFL quarterback (with the possible exception of Ben Roethlisberger) has a refined pocket presence.”

    I stopped reading right there.

    j/k

    I enjoyed reading that. As a guy who never played QB, and never played football beyond the high school level, I love that deep analysis.

  70. Keep in mind, I think Incognito is a huge douchebag. That being said, when people give you crap, give it back to them. Don’t just quit. The players did it to EVERYONE… not just him. From what I’ve gathered talking to Lydon, is that Martin is pretty much tired of working hard for his cash, found a cop out, and quit. There’s more than enough evidence of that.

    And back to the thing about the trip, EVERY offensive lineman goes. They all pitch in, the trip is paid for, the reservations are set. Martin agreed to go to this a few months in advance, but then decided not to. It’s how they have built chemistry and camaraderie down there for a while, I guess.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000277233/article/ricky-williams-maybe-martin-doesnt-belong-in-nfl

    Ricky even sees from the other side. So does Mike Wallace. Antrel Rolle puts as much blame on Martin as he does Incognito. This isn’t like some massive kid in school picking on some little kid that’s years older than him, this is a 6’5″ 312 lb NFL tackle running away from a 6’3 319 lb NFL guard.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000276773/article/richie-incognito-has-support-in-dolphins-locker-room

    Incognito was considered “an honorary black man”

    http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/06/richie-incognito-honorary-black-man-miami-dolphins-jonathan-martin/

    These dolphins players know better than literally any talking head, or forumgoer. I believe Incognito is a HUGE jack ass, and an intolerable
    douche. If he were to sign with the Seahawks today, even with the current situation, I would be disgusted.

    You have to be open minded before judging someone, and you definitely won’t even know all the details.

  71. Hey guys, did you know that RADEoN knows Lydon Murtha?!?!

  72. HawkfaninMT says:

    I caught a pass from Jim Zorn when I was a kid

  73. thursday says:

    I used to go to Norm Johnson’s card shop as a kid, sometimes he was even there! Also, I met Mike Tice at the track because my uncle owned horses lol

  74. Wow guys keep owning me because I’m citing a source that none of you have.

  75. MoSeahawk12 says:

    OrrObb, Third times the charm on the rushing D I hope. These guys certainly have made some no name running backs look like all pros the past two weeks. Let’s hope that seeing Steven Jackson in the backfield reminds them of how good they have been against him. I would hate to see him hit his first 100 yard game against us in his twilight years.

  76. Southendzone says:

    Dan Doornink held the pinata at my 4th grade birthday party.

  77. HawkFromDay1 says:

    Cannot wait for this story to go away.

    Sick of listening to “well I was raised to stand up for myself…” and “you don’t understand a locker room…” and “he’s an honorary black guy” (that last one was new to me)… blah blah blah…

    How about we all go back to living our lives the way we see fit, without judging each other via the moral character litmus test that has become Incognitogate.

    No one knows what happened, and I don’t care. Martin and Incognito are both mutlimillionaires and I’m pretty sure they’ll be OK.

    I’ll save my concern for the truly disheartening issues of the day: poverty, war, and the Seahawks run defense.

  78. rramstad says:

    Yeah, I just don’t buy that Martin, as a man, needs to get in the face of Incognito and try to solve the problem on his own. It sounds like he gave the situation time to develop and resolve itself, and when it did not, and he could not tolerate it any more, he left. Makes sense. He has no one to go to. The coach has Incognito on the leadership council… and as it turns out the staff had asked Incognito to light a fire under Martin… Let’s also come to the obvious conclusion that if Incognito is established and has many friends on the team, if Martin truly tried to retaliate, he might end up injured or killed. This is a very realistic possible outcome if you are dealing with grade A jerkwads and scum of the earth. A one on one situation? Sure, a raised voice, a shove, something like “don’t you ever talk like that to me ever again you racist piece of doo”, that might all work if it was just a one on one situation… but if Incognito thought he was somehow shamed in front of the others, the abuse might have gone to a very different place, and that could have been really really dangerous. (re: Aaron Hernandez)

  79. mocarob says:

    Here’s a 12event happening in ATL. Tansey throws a great party.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/581659911899212/

  80. Southendzone says:

    Ron Essink was the best man at my sister’s wedding.

  81. thursday says:

    I see Baldwin has commented now that Martin is not “soft” and that reactions to his stepping away are pathetic. Since he knows Martin, that kinda overrides all this conjecture from “former Dolphins”.

  82. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Plenty of former Stanford teammates are also speaking highly of the guy. None of us will really know what went on with this situation.

    From Carroll today. Carroll said Malcolm Smith could see “elevated opportunities” in the linebacker rotation to help keep the unit at their best. Carroll said tackle Alvin Bailey would receive a similar treatment along the offensive line.

    Run game help on the way maybe. Still think Wagner isn’t recovered from injury.

  83. mocarob says:

    Did anybody ask Tony McDaniel his thoughts on the Miami fiasco?

  84. davidste says:

    I know we are tired of the incognito/martin matter but it is an interesting topic and definitely football related, especially when you contemplate a team losing two o-lineman when we are desperate at that position.

    My contribution is simply to report that as a biracial (black and white) person, I empathize with Mr. Martin and would point out that he is very likely to be the object of bias from both black and white people and this could easily lead to him being isolated. While some white people may be elevated to “honorary brotha” status and feel free to sling the n-word around, in my experience biracial people do not typically accept “half-n” as an endearing self-reference. It would be an insult coming from either a black or white person and never be said in jest.

    The idea that Martin should physically retaliate is ludicrous. Guys like to get macho and talk about how they would handle situations with their fists, but the fact is that a grown man is not legally allowed to assault other people and the vast majority of civilized people do not engage in fist fights as a way of solving workplace conflicts. I don’t think the NFL is any different.

    My last comment is about the reputation of Mr. Martin as a “rat.” This is another antisocial and frankly psychopathic norm that gets perpetuated as macho bullbleep. Reporting misbehavior is, for responsible people, a requirement of citizenship. The “snitches get stitches” mentality destroys entire communities and allows gangs, mobs, abusive spouses, molesting clergy and any number of lowlifes to get away with crime and abuse for far too long. Of course Martin should refrain from assaulting someone whom has wronged him and report the situation through the appropriate channels which include his union or league commissioner if his immediate coaches appear to condone or encourage the acts. He is simply behaving like 99% of civilized grown-ups behave and I neither question his strength of character nor his ability to perform as an athlete.

  85. Stan Gelbaugh washed my car a few years ago.

  86. davidste says:

    I went to high school with Fran Tarkenton’s kids in Atlanta and said hi to him 6 times. I only knew he was the guy from “That’s Incredible” though.

  87. Southendzone says:

    Sam Adkins rescued my cat from a tree.

  88. Screensmoke says:

    Ken Easley broke my collarbone- no more cognito talk for me- should of never got it going ( left collarbone)????

  89. Matt Hasselbeck shaves me back for me and I shave his shiny dome.

  90. patmcfar8 says:

    I know one of the worst draft busts in Seahawk’s history. Friend of a friend. Played poker with him, golfed with him, hang out at bbq’s and parties. Honestly, he’s a great guy. Truly solid human being. Makes me feel like an ass for how I talked shit about him most of my life. He has not offered to shave my back though.

  91. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I urinated on the same tree that Moffitt did, (at the mall) although it was five years before him. Therefore I feel I know him well, even though I marked the tree first.

    “Keep in mind, I think Incognito is a huge douchebag.”
    And then you go on to defend him. You make very little sense but then it’s very rare when you do.

    Ironically you contribute to this blog in a similar manner that Incognito contributes to the NFL.

  92. GeorgiaHawk says:

    CanuckFan- Hudson Grille is a good place to watch Football. Here are some more-

    http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=best+place+to+watch+football&find_loc=Atlanta%2C+GA

    Also next to the world of Coke is the Georgia Aquarium, Largest in the world, and has a great Beluga Whale exhibit.

    And if you have time Stone Mountain is interesting to see.

    I will likely be at the game so let me know where your seats are if you want.

  93. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Interesting take on this by former Seahawks player Isaiah Kacyvenski-

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9937464/miami-dolphins-players-support-richie-incognito

  94. Chuck_Easton, Chris_Holmes, Davidste, and doubledink–Wow, imagine intelligent discussion of serious topics on a football blog…who’d a thunkit?! Great job guys, and I agree with your points.

    From the info we have thus far, Martin would appear to be the stand-up guy, and I think he did the right thing by turning over the messages and claiming harrassment, rather than getting physical with Incognito.

    The Dolphins are a mess, from top to bottom,and are bungling this in a big way. Their coach has not clue how to run a team, which is too bad; he’s a great OC. You’d think someone in this idiot-stick outfit would have called in the lawyers and come up with a plan, instead of this three-ring circus sideshow…

  95. Radeon–The problem with your unnamed friend who used to play for the Dolphins is his facebook post is written at a fourth grade level. The guy comes off as a total douche dipspit. No one is going to take his opinion seriously unless and until he can articulate his opinion better.

  96. Georgia–That article made no mention of Kacyvenski.

  97. HeatherHawk says:

    “Matt Hasselbeck shaves me back for me and I shave his shiny dome.”

    This comment wins the thread.

  98. HeatherHawk says:

    Also, I have a visual of this shaving being simultaneous and it’s not that great of a visual.

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