Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Offensive line a week away from a boost?

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Nov. 2, 2013 at 6:30 am with 36 Comments »
November 2, 2013 1:46 am

Good morning.

I’m working on a bunch of stuff for Sunday’s paper (and beyond), plus a little more involved blog post for later, so we’ll be brief this morning.

> My notebook from today covered the status of Marshawn Lynch’s DUI case, the likely return of Russell Okung and Breno Giacomini to practice next week and the Percy Harvin situation.

> Golden Tate was fined $7,875 for taunting in St. Louis.

> Two ESPN reporters discuss the Bucs-Seahawks game.

> Also from ESPN.com are 10 key stats for the Seahawks.

> Speaking of stats, Russell Wilson has taken 50 QB hits this season.

> Football Outsiders looks at which quarterback are being sacked because of coverage and which are getting taken down because of bad line play.

> The Everett Herald writes that the Seahawks want more Beast Mode.

> Chris Clemons was voted the recipient of the Ed Block Courage Award.

> Jim Zorn was out at practice the other day and he talked with Seahawks.com.

> SI.com’s Audibles blog says Earl Thomas’ closing speed makes him the best safety in the NFL.

Leave a comment Comments → 36
  1. pabuwal says:

    Just 29.6% of Wilson’s sacks were “short sacks” which is one of the lower numbers on that list. This means Wilson is able to hold the ball for quite a while (relatively speaking) before he is sacked.

    But wait, how can that be, all I read on this blog is that Wilson does not have time to hold the ball and this OL is the worst in the history of modern man. Fact is, that’s a very lazy argument that’s been used on this blog since the latter days of Hasselbeck’s career with the Seahawks. It’s used to cover up bad QB play and/or bad WR play.

    Wilson will probably always be higher on that list because he can not throw from a collapsing pocket and either needs to take a sack or try to bail once the pocket collapses. The way to fix that is to get him WRs that produce just a bit of separation so he can get the ball out quickly. Hopefully, Kearse can help there.

  2. Do you realize there are times when Wilson is running around all over the place and when he’s making some of those circus runs that take plenty of time and that is time factored in where he “supposedly” has all the time in the world (he’s running for his life to create this time – he wasn’t exactly eating a sandwich as he was surveying the area).

    If I didn’t watch the games – I’d agree that it’s probably even more on the WRs, but I actually watch all the games and can see for myself that he’s getting terrorized more times than not in comparison to most other QBs in the NFL.

  3. montanamike2 says:

    Mike Glennon is a giraffe, while Rice was always good for 1-2 spectacular catches, it was apparent he wasn’t the same after his knee injury. I hope all the WR’s seize the opportunity and step up. Separation and preparation.

  4. pabuwal says:

    “The Preparation Is In the Separation” —> The OL’s new motto with Kearse in the lineup.

  5. montanamike2 says:

    Works for me Pabs.

  6. thursday says:

    Yeah there’s definitely a bit of “stats don’t always tell the whole story” in that breakdown. Love the article about ET though. He is basically Bob Sanders without the injury problems.

  7. SandpointHawk says:

    Great visual Bobby…Wilson takes the snap and whips out his ham and cheese, then takes a drink of his Gator Aid and checks to see if his receivers have separation yet…

  8. montanamike2 says:

    I bet if there was a stat for QB’s making completions while running for their lives, RW would be head and shoulders above everyone else.

  9. I think we can all agree last weeks sacks/pressure was all on the OL. Bevell doesn’t get a pass either, the blocking schemes were bad, and field gulls posted a good read on how predictable the play calling has been. Rams were able to predict pass, pin their ears back and rush without worry.

  10. thursday says:

    totally agree with that assessment @nwgg

  11. averagejay says:

    I’m with NWGG. Let’s hope last week was an aberration. I can understand being beaten (o-line) early, but there was no adjustment. Rams loaded the box all night. I looked like short yardage defense being played everywhere. We only were able to make them pay one time for single coverage, the Tate bye-bye touchdown.

  12. doubledink says:

    John Clayton was just saying don’t under estimate the role that Brady Quinn may have played in the defense being able to predict what the offense was going to do.
    He noticed a lot of activity by the linebackers every time Russell tried To audible. That indicates they recognized they verbiage.

  13. montanamike2 says:

    doubledink that’s a good observation/insight.

  14. Carlsonkid says:

    Well if this wind storm continues tomorrow , it aught to be real interesting . This is the kind of weather where field goals and deep outs go to die …

  15. Quinn may have helped, that article on fieldgulls pointed out that Seattle’s play calling is ridiculously predictable too.

  16. thursday says:

    supposed to be pretty cold tomorrow, but the strongest wind should die out by tonight

  17. Dukeshire says:

    Wilson has been sacked 3rd most in the NFL, going into tomorrow’s game. Of his sacks, he’s taken only 2 more “long sacks” than “short”. That’s hardly a large enough disparity to either, A: support the narrative that bad QB play and/or bad WR play is the culprit for high sack total, nor B: that this offensive line is exonerated from the justifiable criticism they are taking.

    If we’re attempting to not make “lazy arguments”, then it’s important to look that the statistics as a whole rather than cherry pick the one’s that support an already formed opinion. Wilson’s sacks are spread nearly even across the short, normal, long sack metric (8,9,10 respectively). What that tells me is that there are issues across the board, and included in that would certainly be awful line play.

  18. Dukeshire says:

    And Bobby makes a valid point regarding Wilson’s ability to extend plays which somewhat skew the “long sack” number.

  19. Unrelated – has anyone else noticed marshawn lynch pulls himself out of almost every series for a breather when it lasts more than a few runs?

    Sherman smith has noted he wants marshawn to stay on the field longer and bevel is responding with “I want marshawn to want the ball”. I think bevel is trying to motivate…

  20. jawpeace says:

    Common what do people expect from the Hawk line missing both tackles for many weeks, and the center for a game or two?
    When we get back Okung the porous left side will be vastly improved. Also while the rookie shows a lot of promise Gauc is still better at this point.
    Though I don’t believe Cable will bench his pet I think MQ would be better at RG than Sweezy.
    As we get healthy I am pretty confident that the line play will improve.

  21. montanamike2 says:

    Johna05 that’s probably because he’s been carrying the load with yards after carry. Once again this points to the O-line.

  22. montanamike2 says:

    Sorry jawpeace posted at the same time.

  23. sluggo42 says:

    Yup, lazy argument that the oline sucks… So does that mean Pabs, that you think the oline is ok, and the problem lies witht the WR position?

    Personally, I’ll stick witht he lazy way, and blame Ton Cable…

  24. When Fitzgerald sucked last year with respect to his statistics, was it because he sucked and couldn’t get separation or because his QB AND OL both sucked?

    I happen to think that Fitz was/is better than clowns who both outgained him yardage wise and had more TDs last year like Lance Moore, Greg Olson, Steve Johnson, Miles Austin, Cecil Shorts, etc.

    If Fitz were getting only a couple of targets per game in Seattle, I have a feeling his stats would “suck” here too.

  25. Saying that this o-line is the most inept in the NFL an d Cable is an awful coach is lazy IMO.

    That said, BobbyK and Duke both make good points regarding those FO stats. I was still somewhat surprised to see his short sacks be the lowest, but RW buys a lot of time with his legs. Just look at the other QBs with long sack percentages at or above 33.3. Geno Smith, Roethlisberger, Pryor, Newton, Romo, Weeden, Brees, Luck, Kaepernick, Vick, Griffin, Manuel, Gabbert, Glennon, Freeman, and Fitzpatrick.

    The only 3 of those that you could claim aren’t mobile IMO are Brees, Glennon, and Fitzpatrick. Glennon certainly isn’t. Fitzpatrick is more mobile that you might think, but I wouldn’t actually call him a mobile QB either. Glennon has played in 4 games and Fitzpatrick in 3 so far in 2013. And I would actually consider calling Brees a mobile QB. He isn’t really going to run for yards, be he absolutely one of the best at moving in the pocket to buy additional time.

  26. Oops, I forgot Weeden. He is not mobile. He’s played in 5 games in 2013. So 3 out of the 16 weren’t mobile. I count Brees as mobile.

  27. sluggo42 says:

    What would the stats be with a statue like Carson Palmer?

  28. Bbmate –any way you slice it, this line IS the worst in the NFL. Cable hasn’t been able to coach up this line into a competent unit, despite his assurances to Carrol. The jury is still out on cables coaching ability, but his personnel acumen has been proven to suck beyond all doubt.

    It’s a lazy argument to say the line isnt awful. They are awful in every aspect of line play.

  29. And the only way to judge who’s fault a sack or incompletion was is to watch the play, and analyze for all positions onfield; bare stats of time burned tell you Nothing conclusive.

  30. We all know – and it has been commented on during games by commentators AND pointed out in articles that RW doesn’t always see the open guys either. So on the long snaps I think there are 3 contributing factors.

    1. If the pocket collapses RW doesn’t have any windows to see through
    2. there are plays where the WR don’t get open
    3. RW either doesn’t see or decides NOT to throw the ball to an open guy – (possibly due to having to throw back across his body or something of the nature)

    all of those can contribute and I think we have seen all of those happen especially in the last few games.

  31. On the OL play – I noticed last week that they played ok and then when we had a few poorly blocked plays and then a big penalty (bringing back a big run by ML) that they started to play scared and then started to make more mistakes.

  32. Dukeshire says:

    bbmate – Point of info, Wilson’s “short” sacks were 12th, not the lowest. In any case…

  33. Duke, I meant this his short sacks were lower than his normal or long sacks, not that he was lowest compared to anyone else.

    STTBM, this line IS NOT the worst the majority of ways you slice it. They’re not even the worst at pass blocking according to FO and many other stats. They are clearly the worst to you and sluggo, which is fine, but it’s hardly anything resembling a fact. Just a couple of opinions. And I never said it isn’t bad. It’s awful at pass blocking with both starting tackles out and a mediocre OG playing LT. Even if I agreed that they were the worst in the league, I have no inclination to become a broken record about it.

  34. Bbmate–but you, like several others, are a broken record trying to split hairs and insist the line isn’t as bad as it is. By a number of websites, analysts, and talking heads–not to mention fan opinions–our line is the worst in the NFL. At pass pro, the only thing keeping them from last place is the help they get from backs and TE’s, and RW’s amazing escape acts.

    They are the worst line in the NFL, period. Look it up. And as long as folks keep making excuses and blithely insisting they are anything other than the worst, I will comment and attack that opinion–until they aren’t the worst.

  35. What websites out there are saying they are the worst overall? I’ve yet to see it. There’s certainly no objective data saying they are. I’m not a broken record. I occasionally throw some stats out there that counter the prevalent hyperbolic, daily whining on here. I will stop now. You can now parrot away free from anything outside of your bubble.

  36. Bbmate–FootballOutsiders has stats, but they don’t analyze them or explain them well.

    ProFootballFocus ranked Seattle next to last–but that was before Unger came back and so the last 4 games weren’t included. It’s safe to say after last week our overall ranking would be dead last, don’t you think?

    You add to that the escaping Wilson has done, and Lynch, the effect they both have making the line look better than they are, and I think it’s clear this line is the worst.

    Regardless, they are terrible and the apologists with their excuses are driving me nuts; so I will drive them nuts right back.

    Saying the line isn’t beyond awful is like a certain commenter insisting Rice was still an elite player…

*
We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.

JavaScript is required to post comments.

Follow the comments on this post with RSS 2.0