Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Figuring out how to handle first loss

Post by Todd Dybas / The News Tribune on Oct. 8, 2013 at 6:32 am with 104 Comments »
October 8, 2013 12:48 am

Good morning.

> I wrote today about the Seahawks handling their first loss, plus touched on the offensive line.

> also looked at the offensive line.

> The Everett Herald notes it has been about 10 months since the Seahawks last lost in the regular season.

> Colts receiver T.Y. Hilton says Brandon Browner’s trash talk fired him up.

> says any hope of winning the division is over for the Falcons and they will be lucky to finish .500. Atlanta is 1-4. The Seahawks play at Atlanta Nov. 10. There are only six teams above .500 in the NFC and four of those teams are 3-2.

> The Jaguars play at Denver this weekend. Yikes.

> SI’s Greg Bedard wonders if teams are passing too much. Obviously, this is not the case for the Seahawks.

> Carolina receiver Steve Smith said the game official from the Panthers-Cardinals game was “garbage.”


Leave a comment Comments → 104
  1. The Legion of Boom should phase out. Part of the problem with the LOB is that there has always been 1 guy that was a little longer in the tooth and these last few games, he’s showing it. I’ll admit that while at the last home game vs. Jags, the LOB was introduced last and it gave me chills. Since then, it seems to me that ‘the brand’ has become bigger than the team and I don’t like it. This team was built on competition and IMO Walter deserves a fair shot to unseat BB. Yes, we all love BB’s big hits and long arms than occasionally deflect a well intended pass, but he gets beat way too often and gets a ton of PI calls.

    The other problem that I have is all the attention the LOB gets. What about Chris Clemons and his 30+ sacks over the last 3 years…or B Wags and his 140+ tackles last year…or B Mebane stuffing up the middle?

    Pete should try to reign in this LOB stuff and get them to focus back on the TEAM. We got too big for our britches last week where Sherm quits on his route and Earl is trying to re-define his safety position by creeping up to the line too far, only to get torched by a speedster like T.Y. Hilton.

    I know that I’m all over the place on this entry and I’m not suggesting that Walter would’ve done much better in that scenario, but the inflated collective ego of the LOB has to stop, the brand has to stop and the best players should garner the most playing time.

    I love this team…we have the talent to win it all. I’m really looking forward to seeing how these guys respond in person this weekend. For all of my constructive criticism, I’m still very confident in our guys to go deep into the playoffs and hopefully secure home field advantage.

    Let the bullets fly…


  2. yankinta says:

    T.Y. Hilton is a pretty good WR. He killed our LOB, and made some great catches even when Luck threw behind him a couple of times. And Reggie Wayne is Clutch! (Multiple All-Pro Receiver and Future HOF). Colts receiver group is better than our Receiver group (without Percy). Our Receiver Group can’t get open consistently but they can. I don’t know why people think Andrew Luck has no good players on that team and he’s been carrying the entire team on his shoulder…. smh

  3. ^^I pretty much agree. Although, I dont think it should be BB is the starter, or WT is the starter, it needs to be matchup specific. BB cant stick with a little quick guy like Hilton, WT was probably a better matchup.

    Teams are learning how to attack the Seahawk D, the bunch formations that prevent jam, using their film study/aggresion to fake them out and bite on routes. The DBs, and the defensive strategy will have to adjust.

    The good news is these guys play better when they feel disrespected, getting called out by Dungy and Harrison on natl TV is a blessing. A slice of humble pie can really make you hungry.

  4. GeorgiaHawk says:

    If we can get Unger, Miller and Harvin back for the Arizona game it will be a big boost to the offense. Especially the way Arizona plays defense at home.
    Last game Arizona had 7 sacks and 3 interceptions against the Panthers.

    The Titans have a tough defense too, and they didn’t commit any turnovers the first four games of the season. Last game against KC they came back down to Earth.

    I think every team we have played so far, (and the next two ahead) has played good defensive this year.

  5. yankinta says:

    NWGG, our D got called out by Dungy and Harrison on natl TV?? I didn’t know about that. Do you have a link? What was said by Dungy and Harrison on natl TV ?

  6. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Agree NWGG, and I think when WT was the starter they were doing that, or at least Sherman was moving around.
    I remember someone asking Sherman if he would continue to move around when BB gets back and Sherman said something like BB wouldn’t let that happen.

    Well BB needs to swallow his pride and shut his mouth too imo.

  7. djbargelt says:

    Steve Smith will likely be relieved of some cash for his “garbage” comment on the refs.

    Interesting that the Ref’s almost seem to have become worse this year since the league was forced to double their paychecks, which would seem to affirm the ” throwing more money at it don’t make it better rule”.

  8. CDHawkFan says:

    Is it me or maybe its always been this way, but it seems the officiating has become more NBA ‘like’, calling what you think you see and not what you actually see.

    One of the many reasons I dislike the NBA.

  9. section319 says:

    Yakinta: they said Sherman gave up on the play, ie catching Hilton from behind; unfortunately it’s true

    I agree about the LOB ‘critiques’ but wonder if we would be saying this if hawks won on Sunday

    I haven’t seen Thurmond do anything of note since SF (except an arrogant tweet after Sundays loss), but my real question is:

    Where is Chancellor? Is it just me to is he not having much of an impact, litre ally and figuratively ? A couple of picks are nice, and good blitz on Schaub that one play ( it’s just running at a gut though) but in general WHERE IS THE BOOM?!

    Ya I think they can shut up until they REALLY put up (some numbers) primarily at least an SB appearance….

    Young men always over- value so called ‘swagger’ Although Thomas clearly plays his butt off…

  10. yankinta says:

    section319, Thanks. I don’t know if we’d be saying this if we had won on Sunday but I know my concern grew larger when I saw our LOB ineffectiveness against Bunch Formations. Speedy Receivers like TY Hilton will kill us again, if our CB cannot bump and re-route them at the LOS…. we saw the same thing against Denver during Preseason and I’ve been saying that could be our biggest weakness.

  11. montanamike2 says:

    I think we should be more match up adaptable with these two, BB is ineffective against speedy smaller receivers and WT3 is pushed around by larger guys. I think Chancellor will get his hits still but he isn’t the intimidater that he was last year. Have fun MikeFromNewJersey ’cause it’s gonna be mob angry and they will punish Tennessee for the loss last week.
    You picked a good game to go to.

  12. HawkfaninMT says:

    With regards to the idea that bunch formations are tough for press corners to deal with… Why don’t our corners just crush the front portion of the bunch with a hard jam at the line? I feel like that would throw the front two wrs off their routes, and disrupt the timing of the receiver in the back of the bunch that should be getting a free release…

    I am by no means an expert, but doesn’t this make sense? A little help from more savvy play scheme posters around here?

  13. Carlsonkid says:

    What I don’t understand is all the zone coverage since Quinn has taken over .This team was specifically built to play man coverage & bump-and-run at the line of scrimmage ; big physical corners with a burner at safety playing center field . Quinn isn’t utilizing his team properly IMO .

  14. yankinta says:

    HawkfaninMT, that sounds good except if there were to throw quick screen passes,, then we are kind of playing right into their hands by getting on to their blocks (the front portion of the bunch) voluntarily. At least that’s what I think.

    Questions were asked when Denver moved that ball on us rather easily with those formations to avoid press coverage by us,,, Richard Sherman and Quinn said it’s more of a communication issue and they’ll get it fixed. Apparently, it’s week 6 and I don’t think they fixed it yet. If you look at their Big Plays, they ran formations to avoid our press coverage and got open,, and their receivers took the top off of our defense.

  15. yankinta says:

    GeorgiaHawk, thanks for the link. I guess I’m not surprised about the Falcons falling. I’ve been saying that they wouldn’t make the playoff this year since before training camp, and I’ve been getting killed for it.
    I hope they update that chart every week. :)

    We gotta beat Saints at home and finish 13-3, if my calculation is correct. I hope the Saints will lose to the Pats this weekend.

  16. yankinta says:

    That long TD bomb to T.Y. Hilton,, he lined up inside, next to the TE instead of lining up outside the numbers,, in order to avoid the press by Sherman. What’s that formation called?? It worked cuz Sherman had to play off of him and TY got a free release…

  17. Need to give some credit to Luck, Hilton and Wayne – they are all terrific talents.

    I believe our secondary is tremendous, but I worry about our ability to handle quick / small receivers. I sometimes wish that we would use Thurmond / Maxwell / Lane for the smaller quicker receivers and leave Browner and Sherman to deal with the TE’s and taller / bigger receivers.

    I know that the team likes bigger CB’s (Sherman and Browner) in run support, but when you are getting burned through the air, you need to find a balance.

  18. Dukeshire says:

    That’s not technically correct, Hilton was the outside receiver. While he was inside the numbers, he was the outside receiver (that’s different than lining up “inside”). It’s called a reduced split, and on that play it was run out of Posse personnel: 3 WR, 1RB, 1TE. Anyway…

  19. doubledink says:

    I’ve been busting your chops on here for a couple of days but not for the informative comments you have made of late.

    But twice already in this post you have voiced your mantra, “I’ve been saying…”

    News Flash. We don’t care.

    It’s real simple. Come here to enjoy the dialog, contribute what you can (you have some good stuff to contribute too) but quit trying to convince everyone of how smart you are. We don’t care. If you are correct time and time again, that will not go unnoticed. Just don’t expect a Hallmark card.

  20. RDPoulsbo says:

    Browner trash talks? Whenever I hear him speak, it’s just mumble mumble mumble mumble. Not sure anyone can understand what he’s saying in the first place.

  21. chuck_easton says:


    That formation is something that many teams are doing now. Watch more games and you would see this.

    It has become a new thing this season to line the TE up as the farthest out. The WR still lines up on the line, but he lines up between the TE and the tackle.

    By doing this the offense creates a matchup issue. Normally the TE is covered by a LB or the strong Safety. Putting the TE out wide makes the Defence go out of their set formation. You don’t want your CB out covering a TE and you definitely don’t want a speedy WR being covered by a safety or LB. So you have to play your safety or a LB outside the CB. This effectively opens up the middle of the field by removing one middle defender and forcing him out wide.

    I’ve seen this used by NE, Cleveland, the Colts, the Broncos, the Bengals and many other teams. You need a speedy TE to make it work.

    Seattle could do this with Willson out wide IF they didn’t have to keep all their TE’s in to act as 6th and 7th O-linemen.

    Football is a chessmatch. Part of the game is to create a situation that the other side hasn’t seen and isn’t prepared for.

    On that play Sherman as the CB was responsible for the WR. I’m surprised a player of Sherman’s calibre got confused. It was clear he didn’t know if he was to be covering the TE or the WR. TE came off the line and went into a short crossing route. Sherman shifted into a zone. But his responsibility on that play was to take the WR. NOT the guy lined up the farthest outside.

    I’m shocked you didn’t already know this as we have been consistantly told that you know everything about everything. Must be slipping.

  22. Dukeshire says:

    chuck_easton – That wasn’t the formation on the bomb to Hilton. Fleener was split from the tackle and Hilton was the flanker, outside him. Sorry…

  23. Southendzone says:

    Did anyone watch MNF last night? How bout the defense that NYJ used against Gonzalez (and got flagged for it a couple times). 2 LB’s mug the living hell out of him at the LOS for the next 4-8 yards and he gets no release at all.

    Wishing we would have tried that last year in the final 48 seconds.

  24. I understand that Walter Thurmond has exceptional ability. I understand that Brandon Browner is unique in his own right, hits hard and is able to deflect passes, but…

    Does anyone here think that Antoinne Winfield ‘may’ have helped us a bit more with our challenges in the slot along with playing speedy WRs?

    I do and although his salary was a strong consideration (what was a $1M or something), I think he’s leadership and quickness is something we don’t currently enjoy.

    BB is an above average CB that has shown his straight line speed is quite remarkable for a man of his size (think back to last year when we played the Vikings and he actually ran down Adrian Peterson), his hip ability or lack thereof to swivel and change direction, is what inevitably often gets him beat that is usually soon followed by a tugging of the jersey, PI and lost momentum for our defense.

    For what it’s worth…


  25. yankinta says:

    chuck_easton,, lol I never said I know everything. I just said I know somethings very well. Anyway you wrote all that but you were incorrect as Dukeshire already pointed it. He beat me to it but the point still stands. :)

    Dukeshire, I didn’t say that he wasn’t outside receiver. I know he was,, I was saying, he lined up inside to get away from Sherman’s press. But I forgot that it’s called reduced split,, Thanks. :) Other than Reduced split and Bunch formations, what or how many other formations can offenses use to get away from our Man/Press Coverage??

    doubledink, I think you do care. But maybe I’m wrong cuz I’m not 100% right on everything. :)

  26. yankinta says:

    Southendzone, I was thinking the same exact thing as I watched the Falcons fall last night…. what can I say, great minds think alike. lol just kidding.

  27. Dukeshire says:

    I know you didn’t, you said he lined up inside. What I said is that’s not technically correct.

  28. GeorgiaHawk says:

    joreb- I think Winfields experience alone would be valuable to this secondary. You can’t teach experience and he has more then the LOB combined, and he can still play at a high level.
    But it’s just one game so I’m not concerned yet with this secondary moving forward.

  29. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire,, right I said he lined up inside the numbers…. that’s not technically correct??

  30. Dukeshire says:

    When one says a receiver “lined up inside” that technically means he’s in the slot. I know you went on to attempt clarification, but for educational purposes I feel compelled to specify the details. There are some things you know “very well” as you like to tell us all. But there too are things I know well. smh… :)

  31. GeorgiaHawk says:

    And the back and forth nonsense continues another day. Entertaining though. Lol.

  32. yankinta says:

    lol, I see. well, if I was trying to say he was lining up in the slot, I was have said that…. I said he lined up inside the numbers because he did line up inside the numbers….I guess I forgot the technical term (reduced split) for it,, but that’s why I brought it up in the first place. smh….
    Nah, you know that I know some things very well, you may never admit it but we both know,, so that’s okay. :)

  33. yankinta says:

    GeorgiaHawk,, lol sorry dude. I guess I’ll stop now. :)

  34. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Has anyone seen the new pro-bowl uniforms yet?

  35. Dukeshire says:

    I have no idea what you genuinely know well, regarding this blog. Nor do I care much. It’s fine…

  36. ChrisHolmes says:

    Ugh. NFL Rewind is frustrating. After purchasing a team package, and then a season package, I still can’t watch the coaches film for more than half of the first quarter. I have an email into them to try and sort it out. Either there’s a technical difficulty, or their website is engaging in deceptive advertising practices. Because no where on the website (that I could find) does it say you have to purchase the most expensive Rewind package to have access to the coach film. It just says Rewind…

    I tried charting off the television broadcast but that is pretty much pointless. You just can’t see the receivers.

    I will say this though: A lot of people are concerned about RW’s ability to see the field. Stop worrying. His passing lanes are fine, he sees fine. It’s the OL that’s the issue, and sometimes receivers are just blanketed.

    Here’s what I saw (in limited review): When Russel was at the end of his drop, whether it was a straight drop-back from under center or shotgun, or he came out of play-action from under center, receivers running routes were not even at their breaks before RW had to start running due to OL failing to block. When Carroll says it’s an OL issue, I believe him. I’d need to see the rest of the tape, but what I have seen so far jives with that PC said in his presser. The OL just isn’t getting it done. Not even close.

    Any pass plays longer than slants/flats and RW had to run. The OL simply cannot pass protect long enough for guys to make their breaks.

    The 2nd pass play of the game is a perfect example of this. This is a really well designed play, by the way…

    It’s a shotgun set with a bunch formation left. Luke Wilson is on the immediate left, on the LOS standing up. Rice goes in motion left out of the bunch and lines up wide left. This leaves Baldwin to the immediate left of Wilson, off the line.

    At the snap Luke Wilson runs vertical (this turns into a deep post) taking a LB with him and driving the safety deep. Baldwin runs a quick out to the left flat and is open because the slot corner is playing off, but it’s a 2 or 3 yard gain tops if the ball were to come to him on time unless he can make a move and get upfield.

    The killer here is the OL, because Rice had a chance for a big gainer here.

    From his wide position left he runs a 10-yard in-cut. When he makes his cut he’s covered really well; I’m not an expert on route running, but he looks like he doesn’t run this route well. Even so, the route combination is nice because Baldwin drags the nickle corner to the flat and Luke Wilson takes two defenders with him up the field leaving the middle of the field wide open for Rice’s in-cut, if the ball could have been delivered to him (and in the NFL we all know a guy draped on your back means you’re still open).

    Problem? It’s a five-man rush by the Colts (who show 7 blitzers at the LOS pre-snap) and the OL + Lynch just can’t block it. The Colts’ defenders come free *really quickly* and Russell has to run around the right end to escape and make positive yards.

    I can’t be certain what RW’s reads are on this play; it looks like he’s anticipating a full-on blitz and he expects Luke Wilson to be open as a hot read and if the blitz is coming from the left Tate would have had position on his defender for a catch as well.

    When you watch RW drop back this is what you see: He first eyes Luke Wilson (I’m guessing here, but it looks like he’s expecting him as a hot read) and has his head down the center of the field. Wilson has a linebacker trailing and safety over the top, so RW goes to his second read.

    His next look is immediately to the right for Golden Tate who is running a deep slant/skinny post. Tate had inside position in his defender, but he gets doubled by a linebacker dropping into that area. There’s no pass there.

    RW’s 3rd look would have been to come back to Rice, it seems, because the route was timed perfectly that way, but by then the Colts are breathing down his neck and he’s already forced to take off and run.

    Rice doesn’t even make his break until RW is already 3-yards outside the right hash with the LDE chasing him. And it was only a 10-yard in-cut. That’s how fast the Seahawks OL collapsed with 6-on-5 blocking. It was over in a heartbeat and routes had almost no chance to develop. Russell ran and got 3 yards. Off a pass play that, had the OL been able to block even one more second, would have probably been at least 10 yards to Rice, and more if he hits the pass in stride and is able to run away from the defender, because there was NO ONE in the middle of the field.

    I give the Colts defenders some credit – they had blanket coverage on our guys on the plays I was able to look at. When guys were open it was because Colts defenders played off.

    Rice’s first catch comes from a shotgun set, 4 receiver formation, with 2 receivers on each side, close in (it’s not a spread 4WR formation). Rice runs to the flat and the Colts played him off; it was an 8-yard completion.

    And that was typical in what I watched. The Colts didn’t seem to mind leaving anything under 5 yards open. They covered everything downfield very tight and expected their DL to get through our OL and get to RW. And that’s what happened. RW had no time to look for developing routes because he washaving to take off and run before receivers could make their breaks.

    If the OL doesn’t pass protect better then there won’t be much of a passing game. Russell is seeing the field fine, from what I could tell. But the OL is just a sieve.

    If I can get the Rewind thing figured out and see the entire coaches tape I’ll let you guys know more. But I expect to see more of the same.

    Caveat: I saw two plays in the first 20 minutes where Seattle threw out of a read-option fake-handoff, so they were passing out of that formation, unlike I thought.

  37. rramstad says:

    Just wanted to thank everyone for the links. It’s appreciated, between the stuff that Todd puts up officially, and all the various unofficial links, it’s easy to keep up with what’s going on around the league.

    I did think the analysis for HFA was on point and very useful. In particular while the Saints are certainly controlling their own destiny, as long as we are within one game of each other, the Saints at Seahawks game will determine which team has the advantage. I think the Saints have some difficult games coming up, and we have a decent shot at catching up with them… but really, all of that is moot, as long as we stay in striking distance, and keep winning games, it’s quite likely that game will determine HFA for one or the other team.

    It’s also VERY interesting that with the 49ers and Cardinals both at 3-2 and having to play each other still that we won’t end up with a three way competition for the NFC West title… and by extension, it’s unlikely that three NFC West teams make it into the playoffs. Either one team will consistently beat the other (and we’ll end up with one challenger for the title, in addition to the Seahawks) OR they’ll split and that’ll give them each another loss, increasing the distance and effectively making it easier for the Seahawks to win the West.

  38. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Thanks ChrisHolmes.

  39. Was pretty happy to see Atlanta lose last night. Not sure why, I guess just b/c they’re a potential contender against us – and also b/c they finished our season last year.

    But got to recognize what a player Gonzales is. The guy doesn’t even really have to get open to make a play, just runs downfield, turns around, boxes guys out a bit, and becomes a target. And he catches absolutely everything. I really don’t know how you stop him on something like 4th and 3.

    I’m so old now, I can remember him playing b-ball for Cal back in the day . . .

  40. good stuff ChrisHolmes. confirms what I thought from watching the game as well, the pass game really can’t work when the O-line plays like it has the past 2 weeks. it’s not like RW has been holding the ball and waiting for things to open up, he never has the time to do that. I don’t know how he could even get to 3rd or 4th options, the pocket has long collapsed by the time he gets to do that. it’s only his quickness and scrambling ability that has allowed to get the points we have.

  41. GeorgiaHawk says:

    pdway- Agree, If it wasn’t for Gonzales we may have made it to the Super Bowl last year.

    The best TE I ever seen.

  42. yankinta says:

    rramstad,, you’ve reminded me. My originally dream of 2 NFC West teams making the wildcard is still possible. Maybe Arizona can step it up… I don’t really care for their coach but I’d root for NFC West versus other divisions…

  43. yankinta says:

    pdway and GeorgiaHawk,, not sure if you follow College Football but Austin Seferian-Jenkins’ stock is dropping and will continue to drop since he doesn’t really fit with our Dawg’s new fast paced offense. Maybe we might have to a chance to get him in the late first round. He’s not the Joker TE but I think he has the potential to become a top TE, like an A.Gates type TE….

  44. yankinta says:

    Watching that Jets D last night makes me wish we had one of those two STUD DT’s…. maybe we might be able to get Will Sutton or Timmy Jernigan next year….

  45. I try to catch the Huskies when I can – but otherwise, just not enough time for college football these days. that’s why I never weigh in much about specific players during the build-up to the draft. too many kids activities on Saturdays . . .

  46. I think the fines have something to do with the missing BOOM! – that and opportunity. They are at times defensing things differently than they were last year.

    The hurry up beats our front 7 as badly as the bunch hurts the LOB – We were all complaining about that last season.
    We will see how good our coaches are when, now that other teams have had a chance to devise a plan against us – what do we do to adapt back? time will tell

  47. Southendzone says:

    Keep up the game film Chris Holmes, that is good stuff.

    i also looked at the pricing at and it looked pretty reasonable but like you said it clearly says that purchasing any of the packages gives you access to the coaches film / All-22 cameras.

    Please post here if you resolve that issue, I’d like to know exactly what is provided and what kind of all-22 access you really get.

  48. ChrisHolmes says:

    “I don’t know how he could even get to 3rd or 4th options, the pocket has long collapsed by the time he gets to do that. it’s only his quickness and scrambling ability that has allowed to get the points we have.”

    Yep. Agreed.

    Couple other things I noticed, but didn’t have time to comment on (had to pickup the kid at school; meltdown day).

    Golden Tate gets open. He’s cat-quick and makes good breaks. His TD catch early in the game where he ran a post-corner route was a good example. He got the DB to turn and commit to the post, and as soon as the guy did, Tate broke out to the corner route and RW found him for the six. But you see that a lot in the film on other plays, and I don’t know if it’s by design, or just the route combinations, or if the defense doesn’t respect him as much as they respect Rice yet, but Golden gets open.

    Rice runs really, really hard every play. You can see the effort every time the ball is snapped; he’s running like he would at a pro day or something, like he expects someone to give him his 40 time after the play is over.

    And yet, it seems all too easy for DB’s to stick to him in coverage.
    Defenders don’t seem to be afraid to be up in his grill, pulling and tugging and smothering him. At the same time, he’s a big guy with powerful hands, and it looked to me like he never had a problem getting off the line. But his separation, at least in this game, just didn’t seem to be there.

    I guess, best way to put it: When I watched Tate, it looked like, one-on-one with a defender, Tate could get open on his own. Rice, one-on-one with a defender, didn’t look like he could get separation well.

    Something else I did see is that Bevell was putting Rice all over the field, not just out wide, but in the slot as well, and on the left and right sides of the formation. I saw Rice lined up everywhere, which seems to indicate to me (and I could be totally wrong here) that Bevell is trying to find ways, via formation, to get Rice the ball.

    But the OL just can’t block long enough for that to happen.

    I’m anxious to look at the rest of the tape on all the passing plays and sort of grade out all the WR’s.

    I have to say, if I were a WR on this team, I’d be pretty depressed. You could see these guys coming out of their breaks expecting the ball to be on its way already, and instead they see RW running for his life, trying to make positive yards. That’s not a good way to spend a Sunday as a WR.

  49. ChrisHolmes says:

    I heard that on the radio this morning @montanamike2 and my first thought was, “They got the name wrong. Don’t the mean Roddy White?”

    That’s gonna hurt them.. bad. They’re already down. I think that counts ‘em out. I wonder if Gonzales is rethinking his decision to come out of retirement…?

  50. HawkfaninMT says:

    I wasn’t a Muhammad Wilkerson guy at the time of the draft… But man he looked good!

  51. WilliamPercival says:

    Just a little positive and pro Russell for you guys. Another example of the example he is…

  52. Dukeshire says:

    There we’re quite a few here who liked Wilkerson. If we remember back 3 years ago just how awful Seattle’s d line was, it’s understandable why he was a popular choice.

    HawkfaninMT – You’re right though, he wasn’t a unanimous favorite by any stretch.

  53. I was touting Mr. TY Hilton last season when some were suggesting that Luck had garbage around him on offense. I guess I should be patting myself on the back with both hands? ;-)

  54. yankinta says:

    bbmate,, yup yup, that’s part of the Andrew Luck Hype/brain washing by National Media for the Golden Child of the NFL. I guess it’s good for business.. :)

  55. Everyone coming up with their own brand of knee-jerk fixes for the Legion of Boom. But its not just our Secondary; Our whole defense is off, due to a brand-new DC, who is still figuring out how/when to use his guys, because most of them have missed time due to injuries/suspensions, and this is the first week he’s had them all together. I have faith Quinn will get it together, bigtime.

    The Legion of Boom is not broken, they dont need torn apart or shuffled or anything else. Quinn just has to resist doing what Bradley did so often last season, which is to get cute and try to out-think/trick offenses by trying fancy zone coverage. That isnt what this secondary was built to do. They need to let the guys do what they do best–BB needs to be outside corner because thats what he’s best at–and he isnt a good nickel back. He also only plays RCB. Ok, teams are going to try to get small fast guys on him, or big FAST guys. Then cheat Chancellor or ET his way a little more often.

    Ive always thought our D works best with BB getting his hands on the WR asap, then pounding them–and if the WR avoids the jam, BB is following a step behind, ready to smash them flat and/or cause a fumble if they do catch a pass. And a Safety should be there for help over the top.

    Sherm can play in the slot–he did a fantastic job vs Boldin etc in the Niners game, for instance–but he’s not great at it. So, give him some experience, help him get there.

    The player I think has played the worst in the secondary is ET. The guy just seems to be overrunning plays–even more than usual–missing tackles, and cheating to one side or the other too quickly, giving the qb too much room to shred the secondary. I think his arm is screwed up, messing with his tackling ability, but he’s always had a propensity to overrun plays; and thats a technique and a discipline thing, it can be fixed. However, the totally blowing deep containment is a new thing, first I saw of it was vs Hou, and that too can be corrected by holding him accountable–discipline.

    Thurmond is more athletic than BB, thus his role in the slot. But he isnt great at Press-Man, and so if Coaches think he’s ready to play outside CB, he needs to take that when teams put their best WR in the slot, so Seattle can put Sherm on him.

    Chancellor hasnt done anything to speak of, but he hasnt been beaten badly in coverage as often as last year either.

    What I really mean by all this, is let the guys do what they were born to do–dont panic and bench BB, or try to make ET an inside the box SS, and dont try to make Thurmond a starting outside cb yet. Let them do what they do best, and adjust accordingly if that begins to fail. Too much zone, too much off-zone and even off-man.

    But all of this is fixable. So to those panicking and blaming players (everyone but the sainted ET), chill out. Its a coaching, scheme, and discipline thing; no one got old and slow in the offseason. It will get fixed.

    Its not like the O-line, which stinks due to a horrendous soup of failed personnel evaluation and injuries, and perhaps poor coaching.

  56. Yeah, I thought we were gonna take Wilkerson, and it wouldnt have upset me one bit. Kinda wish we had now. Ah well….

  57. James Carpenter may not be on this team next year.

  58. ChrisHolmes–Thank you for your analysis. Sounds to me like Bevell and company failed miserably to tailor their passing game to the offensive line’s inability to pass pro. They should have been running more quick-hitting routes, screens, bubble-screens, slants, curls, hooks, etc, yet it would seem they stuck with the slower-developing routes.

    This would have been a good time to see some quick-hitters to Tate and Baldwin in the slot, eh?! (I know, when those arent working, Bevell keeps running them until Im screaming for a seam route downfield…cant win for losing!).

    Also interesting how up till today so many were insisting Seattles O-line wasnt the huge gaping wound problem it actually is. Like Rob Staton, the ego over at Seahawksdraftblog, who insisted Seattle’s O-line played well.

    Well, Buddy, I got news for you: Carrol himself says their problems on offense are do to poor protection, and he RARELY if ever points a finger. Idiot! Insisting the line is playing well wont make it true…

  59. chuck – thanks for that post. I come here to learn something and posts like that provide great insight for those of us who aren’t really up on the X and O’s. Much more enjoyable to read than people bickering.

  60. Im glad to see someone else actually agrees with me that Lem Jean-Pierre should get a crack at playing G if Unger starts. He’s been our best lineman two weeks in a row, and with the way the line has been performing, how can we afford to bench him and let McQ, Carp, and Sweezy stink it up?

  61. I have liked Lem for awhile and think he is a capable lineman, but I still trust the coaches to pick the best 5 more than myself or anyone else on here. It’s really easy when you have hindsight and don’t have to be responsible for the decisions in the least.

  62. “Rice runs really, really hard every play. You can see the effort every time the ball is snapped; he’s running like he would at a pro day or something, like he expects someone to give him his 40 time after the play is over.”

    That’s good to hear. Maybe Rice is suffering more than our other WR’s from the lack of time our O-line is giving Russell? Maybe he’s more of a pattern guy who needs just a little more time for his route to come open. That would make some sense to me.

    Agree w/other posters that it’s a little puzzling why we don’t run more quick slants to Tate/Baldwin, and screens to Marshawn/Turbin when we are having such a hard time protecting our QB.

  63. Skavage says:

    Call them the LOB or call them nothing, it doesn’t really matter. No name really matters. The only thing that matters is they played poorly last week. They made some mistakes. This is why we have To Tell the Truth Tuesday. Let guys get it out of their system. Let them start focusing on the next opponent. Correct the errors, learn from them, and move on.

    And in that vein….let’s not forget this Titan team comes in here just a games behind us in wins and playing MUCH, MUCH better than they were previously. They will be a challenge. 12th Man is going to need to bring their best to help.

  64. “I have liked Lem for awhile and think he is a capable lineman, but I still trust the coaches to pick the best 5 more than myself or anyone else on here. It’s really easy when you have hindsight and don’t have to be responsible for the decisions in the least”

    Yeah, agreed. Watching McQ makes me literally yell at the TV on Sundays, but I know the coaches aren’t dummies, and are seeing the same things I am (certainly on film if not in game), and would be putting a different guy out there if there was a better option. I just want Okung to go to Germany and get that platelet treatment that worked for Kobe . . ..

  65. interesting game note from Grantland:

    “The Three Worst Decisions of Week 5

    3. The Seahawks punt on fourth-and-1 from the Indianapolis 48-yard line in the first quarter. If you believe in momentum — and contrary to what certain Grantland editors-in-chief might say, even I believe in momentum sometimes — the Seahawks had all the momentum in the first quarter of their matchup with the Colts. They had stopped the Colts on two three-and-outs, produced a touchdown and a field goal on their two drives, and blocked a punt that was pushed through the end zone for a safety. (Or recovered for a touchdown, if you’re a Seahawks fan.) They had been gashing the Colts on the ground, producing 70 yards on 11 carries at that point of the game. Furthermore, with a 12-0 lead, the Seahawks had the opportunity to pick up a first down that would allow them to keep the mo … sorry, this is tough for me … momentum from a dominant beginning to the game.

    Despite having Marshawn Lynch and Russell Wilson at the ready, the Seahawks passed on fourth-and-1 and punted. The Colts narrowly squeaked out a first down on three plays, and on the fourth, Andrew Luck hit T.Y. Hilton for a 73-yard touchdown. A game that had been single-handedly dominated by the Seahawks — who could have easily been up 17-0 with a call in their favor moments earlier — was now a 12-7 contest. The Seahawks might not have been able to knock the Colts out by converting that fourth down, but they could have kept them on the ropes. As it turned out, punting let the Colts right back into the game. (The Seahawks would later convert a fourth-and-3 in no-man’s-land, since Russell Wilson is quite good at scrambling for first downs.)”

    I remember thinking at the time that it would have been a good one to go for – but I wouldn’t go nearly so far as to call it a worst call of the week. . . .

  66. While the coaches certainly have a better idea of what they are doing than I, they are also fallible human beings, capable of making mistakes, and making wrong decisions for the wrong reasons.

    They have stated before–last year–that they hesitate to use Lem at G because he’s their only trustworthy backup at C. I get that, and perhaps why Jason Spitz is on the team.

    But its also possible ego plays into this. Cable has not shown he can build a good offensive line in Seattle, nor has he proven he can coach up his handpicked players. He’s said that playing in real games is the only way to improve–yet Bailey has not a single snap, despite McQ playing badly snap after snap. Who knows if Bailey is so ignorant/bad that they dare not give him a series? We cant know that. But given human nature, and my own experience with people, I think its clear Cable is a stubborn SOB. I think its entirely possible he’s determined to make the line work with “his guys” Sweezy, Carp, and McQ, and that he will stick with those guys whether its right, wrong, or indifferent, unless and until they get RW injured or Carrol pulls rank.

    Of course, thats only my opinion. Take it or leave it. But Im damned if Im going to trust Cable or anoint him as anything other than a failure up to this point in Seattle.

  67. Whats funny is the national media saying we’ll be glad to get Unger and Okung back, and will then improve on the line. While I love me some Unger, Lem has played well, and hasnt been the problem. On the contrary, he’s been the one thing that has gone right on the line. Okung is another story–we need him back in the worst way.

    With Okung we win that game.

  68. yankinta says:

    pdway,, I read that too. I agree cuz I was hoping they’d go for it as well, during the game…. oh well, water under the bridge..

  69. ChrisHolmes says:

    “Sounds to me like Bevell and company failed miserably to tailor their passing game to the offensive line’s inability to pass pro. They should have been running more quick-hitting routes, screens, bubble-screens, slants, curls, hooks, etc, yet it would seem they stuck with the slower-developing routes.”

    “Agree w/other posters that it’s a little puzzling why we don’t run more quick slants to Tate/Baldwin, and screens to Marshawn/Turbin when we are having such a hard time protecting our QB.”

    I think Bevell actually did a really good job with the game plan, when you watch the coaches tape. You can see he knew the OL wasn’t going to give Russell time, and there are a lot of short routes, passes off the read-option and play action designed to negate some of the liability of the OL play. In fact, while I was watching the game in real-time, I thought we ran too much read-option. But when you see it in the coach’s tape, you kind of understand why: the OL is just bad, and he’s trying everything he can to help Wilson out. The first couple passes off the read-option work well (RW misfires on the first one to Baldwin and he was open, but the play was there).

    But, here’s the thing – you can only throw short stuff so long until the defense completely stops respecting your passing game and jumps those routes.

    And the thing is, Seattle did throw short and ran a lot of short routes. Our first few completions came entirely off short routes.

    Baldwin caught a slant early on the left side, Rice’s first catch comes out of a quick pass to the flat on the right side, and Golden Tate’s first catch is pretty much a short route to the right where he made a great move on the defender and then went upfield with it. All those first completions: short routes. Bevell was calling them.

    They were throwing short. In fact, that was pretty much the only thing that worked. That and Russell running.

    Problem is, you can’t just run plays with all short routes, or only pass short the whole game. The reason I went into detail on that second pass of the game is because that was a play where there were a number of route depths going on and I thought it was a pretty good example of the progression that Russell could have gone through if the OL could protect event a little bit (and because it’s not a play-action or read-option play; it’s just a straight dropback out of the shotgun, which is something I really wanted to analyze, since some folks were down on RW’s “not seeing the receivers”, which is basically not true).

    After he makes his pre-snap read, those route combinations give him a chance to go: 1, 2, 3, and to throw on any of those beats. But he couldn’t get past his first two reads because of the OL play and good defense from the Colts.

    He had a quick read to the middle (not open, TE was doubled), a 2nd fast read to the right on Tate (again, doubled, and Russell made the right decision really fast not to throw that route; a lesser QB might not have seen the LB drop there and forced the throw to Tate, and it would have been an easy pick-6) and then he had to run.

    His third read was Rice breaking into an in route at 10 yards with an open middle field, but like I said, by the time Rice even *begins* to make his cut, Russel already had to bail out of the pocket, and he was 3 yards outside the right hashmark and running. It was just really bad OL play.

    “Maybe Rice is suffering more than our other WR’s from the lack of time our O-line is giving Russell? Maybe he’s more of a pattern guy who needs just a little more time for his route to come open. That would make some sense to me.”

    I think you could say that of all the receivers. I think the lack of targets to Rice, however, to some extent, are a product of him being asked to run more intermediate routes, and the OL is not giving him time to throw. So yes, agreeing with you there.

    I don’t know what Bevell’s goals and objectives are with his game plans, and I can’t sit in a weekly session and watch him install, but from what I saw it didn’t matter who was running the intermediate routes – the OL just wasn’t blocking long enough for anyone to get open beyond 5 yards. If it wasn’t a quick route to a flat or slant, Russell wasn’t going to have time to throw.

    Rice is a big body with strong hands. He can shield defenders off him and he can present a sizable target to Wilson. I think Bevell probably would like to get Rice the ball in some space around 10 to 15 yards downfield and let him run after the catch, but the time from the OL just isn’t there. You could see on that 2nd pass play.. the whole middle of the field is open for Rice to run wild after he gets the ball on that in-cut, but he never even has a chance to see the pass come his way.

    It’s frustrating, to be certain. Again, I want to see the whole tape… But I can’t imagine it won’t be like that the whole game.

    Bevell and Wilson have their work cut out for them. It’s not going to be easy making a passing game work without guys like Okung and Unger. Fortunately the schedule eases up a bit here. Maybe we can weather the storm a bit until Okung returns.

  70. pabuwal says:

    Chris – Duke, I and you had a discussion last week on the NFL Rewind Packages. The $30 plan only contains Coaches Tape for “Select Plays” which I was told by a neighbor was basically just the First Quarter or so. Duke confirmed it wasn’t every play. The $70 plan has all the plays on Coaches Tape.

    It does say that on the website, which is why I didn’t go ahead and buy it.

  71. ChrisHolmes says:

    “With Okung we win that game.”

    It’s certainly possible that he could have made enough of a difference on the OL to allow us to convert even one of those FG’s into a TD. Our lack of production in the red zone really hurt. A bunch of things hurt us in this game. Despite the shoddy OL play, we moved the ball and had a lot of shots on the Colts side of the 50. We didn’t convert.

  72. pdway–A very good example of the Coaches not trusting the line, even in short-yardage. At least, thats how I read it at the time, and my feelings havent changed. They also trusted their D, which was playing lights out to that point. My how that would change!

    And here I told myself I wasnt going to get worked up about the line anymore this week.

    Low hanging fruit. I should leave them alone.

  73. ChrisHolmes says:

    Okay, thanks @pabuwal. I couldn’t find it on the website… If it’s not obvious, I call foul advertising :)

    I’ll have to see how I feel about upgrading to the $70 package then. I do like looking at the coaches tape… being able to see what’s going on with the receivers scratches my “I want to know” itch.

  74. I thought Bevells gameplan and playcalling were pretty good, for the most part–until the middle of the third quarter, and excepting once we were in scoring range. He has a propensity not to stay one step ahead of the D though, to beat a dead horse by running the same kinds of plays in the same situations until they fail–not once, but multiple times.

    Bill Walsh used to say that he would get something going on offense, put some points on the board, then he would let it alone and try something else. For two reasons: One, to stay ahead of the D and keep them guessing, and Two, to ensure that later in the game, if things stopped going his way and he needed a play, he’d have something to fall back on.

    Many folks dont like the read option used so much, but Ive been calling for it for weeks. This offense–at least right now, this year–doesnt work without it. Bevell just relied on it a couple too many times and used the same stuff in similar situations, and Indy got wise and got him. Doesnt mean the Read Option wasnt working–it was, even when not gaining us large yardage, because early and often use of it made the D think about it all the time, opening other stuff up.

    Our whole offense is based on running to set up chunk plays through the air, similar to using the read-option to set up the pass and soften up the D for the regular run game.

  75. “But, here’s the thing – you can only throw short stuff so long until the defense completely stops respecting your passing game and jumps those routes”

    Yeah, that’s a good point. I think our offense will continue to struggle against the good teams unless we can figure out a way to improve the pass pro until our starting tackles come back. Against the weaker teams, hopefully strong D, run game, and a few timely passes will continue to be enough.

    It’s our great fortune right now that we have such a resourceful QB who can actually make teams pay for a hyper-aggressive pass rush with his feet. Though you’ve got to figure teams will spy him with a fast LB like Indy did Sunday. It’s obviously a big challenge to play w/out 3 of your 5 O-line starters and w/out your starting TE. Things will slowly get better as guys get back.

  76. ChrisHolmes says:

    @pabuwal Yeah, that’s the page I started on. And at the bottom it has “features”, and it shows the coaches all-22 film. But I couldn’t find anywhere where it says you have to buy the most expensive Rewind package to get ALL of the coaches film. There ought to be a disclaimer right there with the All-22 feature that says clearly, “Only available with the Season Plus package”.

    It’s only when you click the “compare plans” that you see how the coach’s film is structured… Which is kind of deceptive, to me… Because it’s not obvious to anyone buying the cheaper packages that they’re not getting all the plays.

    So now they’ve taken $35 of my money and I don’t have what I really wanted, which means I have to decide if I want to spend another $35 to get what I really aimed for the first time, or cancel the subscription and call foul because they used a deceptive business practice.

    I’m an old hand with the BBB… I call people on this stuff. It doesn’t make me happy.

    They need to just make it clear up front. There’s no reason to be shady about this kind of stuff.

  77. rramstad says:

    Customer service will refund your money if you don’t think you got what you paid for. I wouldn’t bother with the BBB, that’s really a waste of time, as the first thing they’ll ask is if you contacted customer service.

  78. Seahawks22360 says:

    I didn’t read through all of the post but Yakinta why is every observation you have, “something you’ve said or had been saying?” You need to lighten up bro.

  79. DanielleMND says:

    If there’s one thing this regime has failed at, it’s building a quality offensive line. Other than drafting Okung, what have they done?

  80. ChrisHolmes says:

    “If there’s one thing this regime has failed at, it’s building a quality offensive line. Other than drafting Okung, what have they done?”

    I agree. It’s the one glaring failure.

    But I think overall we’re doing pretty good when you consider that it’s really difficult to build a franchise and NOT miss on a guy here or there. It’s unfortunate that a couple of our recent misses appear to all be on the OL (Moffit, Carpenter, Sweezy), but that’s the breaks. We’re fortunate to have RW.

    And we do have two of the better guys in Unger and Okung, when they’re healthy.

    These guys have been in the fire for the first 5 weeks. We’ve had to play a Carolina front-7 that was WAY better than anyone guessed, the 49ers, a Houston defense that is monster, and a Colts defense that is better than people may realize as well.

    It hasn’t been easy.

    These guys we have, they’ve had to be inserted and adapt fast against some of the best defensive linemen and LB’s the league has to offer. And they’ve survived it with a 4-1 record that could have been 5-0 with a play here or there.

    Not too bad.

    You have to believe that with the fire they’ve just been put through, it’s going to make them better, and in the coming weeks we should see some maturation and better play out of that unit.

    I’ve always believed it’s not where you begin, but how you end. If the OL plays better every week, with the guys we have and our studs injured, that’s probably all we can ask.

    We’re 4-1. We have reason to be hopeful and not down.

  81. Chris–The line was fixable. They chose to trust Cable, who was determined to train up his lousy picks at G rather than draft, sign or trade for one or two capable linemen. Not stars, just CAPABLE.

    Instead we have this debacle. And we have the illustrious Percy Harvin. WE have somewhere in the neighborhood of $18 million this year tied up in Rice and Harvin, and for the last two weeks we’ve avg 1 catch for 9 yards with that money. Sweet. Meanwhile our line is a disaster, and not only at positions of injury. Carp and Sweezy are starters playing badly.

    And Im thoroughly frustrated, especially when contemplating what might have been…

  82. Chris–Im not sure these guys can get much better. While I hope they continue to improve–and rapidly–Im not convinced. Carpenter still looks impossibly out of shape, even to the Sportswriters, and Lord only knows if Sweezy will figure it out this year.

    The line gets zero credit for beating HOU. They couldnt have played worse. They get little credit for the other wins either; we won despite them, not because of them.

    But you are so right, its how you finish that matters. Still, its important they get it together soon, in time to have a shot at HA for the playoffs. I dont want to see the best team Ive ever seen fail due to an offensive line that could have, and should have, been improved in the offseason.

  83. Danielle–They’ve spent (wasted?) a first round pick that should have been Wilkerson on Fat Carp, wasted a third on Moffit, and decided to ride with Breno and Sweezy as complements to Okung/Unger.

    Cable has helped Unger become a Pro Bowl/All Pro C, too.

    Still, a terrible performance thus far. Unless things change dramatically throughout the course of the season, I wont cry any crocodile tears if Cable gets shpitcanned.

  84. Hopefully Bowie or Bailey can develop this year, along with at least a modest improvement from Sweezy in pass protection. They’re going to need young guys to develop or they’ll have to address it next draft IMO. I don’t see them spending significant money in FA on the o-line.

  85. bbmate–I agree, and they shouldnt have to. But its time to get the line fixed, one way or another. I too hope Bailey and Bowie develop, and Sweezy too. Time to draft a RT–once again, and a G.

    The money spent on Harvin, along with the money needed to sign guys like Tate, Baldwin, BB, Sherm, ET, etc would seem to preclude any big expenditures along the line. But something has to be done–and should have been done before the season started.

    It’d be hindsight to say that, except even I, a lowly fan, had grave reservations about Seattle not signing a single starting-caliber veteran lineman, nor drafting one above the seventh round last year. I must admit, I thought Carp had a chance to step up and play well and be the road grader we needed. So far, no dice.

    Fortunately, our next few games look to be easier, and its a long season. Anything can happen.

  86. I don’t think Carp has been as bad as many here do. At least in the run game. He needs to get into better game shape. I’m going to wait until the end of the year to make a pronouncement on him.

    I think this line looks much better with Okung and Unger in there and healthy. Duh. I don’t see Breno or McQ coming back for anything close to what they’re being paid in 2013. My hope is that one of the 2 young tackles takes the RT spot and runs with it and they draft a OG in the first 4 rounds to at least compete with Carp, Sweezy and Lem.

  87. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “It’d be hindsight to say that, except even I, a lowly fan, had grave reservations about Seattle not signing a single starting-caliber veteran lineman, nor drafting one above the seventh round last year.”

    STTBM- You mean last draft? Either way I agree and It’s two drafts in a row now.

    BTW look it up, I said two years ago when they drafted Carpenter and Moffitt that they should have signed veteran O-lineman and drafted for the D-line in a rich D-line draft.
    The next year when it was obvious to some here that Carpenter and Moffitt sucked I wanted the FO to draft DeCastro, But what do I know.

  88. ChrisHolmes says:

    I caved and upgraded to the full season pass so I could see the whole coaches tape.

    More of the same.

    The OL gets beat SO FAST that Wilson often has to scramble before anyone can even finish their route and break and get open.

    Two plays struck me in the 2nd quarter.

    1) I-right (after TE motions from left). It’s a play action pass. The WR’s on both sides run “deep crosses” with the TE running a shallow drag and the FB in the flat. A pretty standard play. Wilson has a defender in his face the moment he comes out of his play action fake. Both WR’s eventually clear the 2nd level to get open, but by then Wilson is scrambling for his life and somehow manages 5 miracle yards.

    2) The Kearse TD is a couple plays later. Wilson is under center in a 2TE formation. Colts are showing single high safety. The SS has come down near the right TE and Indy is showing 9 guys within 5 yards of the box. At the snap, everyone runs verticals.

    Tate is wide right and actually gets a step on his guy with an inside move and is more open on the play, initially, than Kearse was. Davis is the TE left side and clears 2 LB’s and is WIDE OPEN over the middle, with the free safety playing really deep. Wilson could have lofted a pass right into him, but I’m sure he’s the 4th option.

    Kearse makes an outside move on his guy and goes up the sideline, but he’s not as open as Tate was.

    RW has to make a fast decision though. The line is facing a 4-man rush and it’s all they can do to give RW enough time to look at his first read and throw it. Kearse is big, tall, rangy, singled up on the left side against the RCB, so Wilson throws it up for him. Can’t blame him for the decision given the duress he faced the previous 25 minutes of play. At this point in time I don’t think RW trusted his OL to block for more than 1 second. He goes with his gut, knows that Davis is going to get some of the FS’s attention (which he does; enough so that Wilson knows the FS won’t get over in time to help Kearse), and RW makes a throw that only Kearse can catch.

    Over and over I see the same stuff: OL barely blocking. It just gives RW no options but to tuck and run.

  89. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Our O-line is close to being the equivalent of Matt Schaub right now. At least they have a chance to weather the storm.
    No such luck for Schaub though I’m afraid.

  90. martygivens says:

    Has anyone else noticed that RW starts just about every game throwing the ball way to high to his receivers? He’s such a great study guy you’d think he would see that in the film and fix it.

  91. GeorgiaHawk says:

    martygivens- agree. I think he will fix it as the season rolls on. I hope he will anyways.

    Also, I think getting some starters back on the O-line and also Miller and Harvin will help for sure.

    Despite all these offensive starters being out we still are #10 in total Offense this year. And that’s playing against,(week in week out) some of the better defenses in the NFL.

  92. Dukeshire says:

    ChrisHolmes – Here’s one thing you’ll need to get used to: The coaches film stream like absolute garbage. The NFL needs to correct this immediately, IMO.

  93. Everything ChrisHolmes is saying from watching the all-22 confirms what I’ve thought about RW the past couple games, and why he has nothing but praise from for doing as much as he has. As I said earlier, we saw what happened to Hass behind similarly bad line play. He couldn’t get anything done at all. It takes a very good QB to make things happen with this line play.

    And to the comments about the O-line in general, I’m clearly not going to disagree w/the sentiment that it’s been the longstanding frustration of the team – but, they played a good game against SF, and its the rare team that can lose 3 of 5 starters and not miss a beat. Okung really is the key – he’s such an important player for us. I wish our guys had a better back-up plan for him (McQ is not an NFL tackle), but they’ve put together a great roster otherwise, so it’s hard to complain big picture-wise.

    We’re not only 4-1, but 4-1 after 3 road games, including 3 games against high-caliber opponents. Things are good.

  94. ChrisHolmes says:

    I haven’t charted the Colts rush (so many things to look at), but just from memory, they rushed 4 and 5 a lot on the passing plays. I didn’t see many blitzes. And our OL just wasn’t up to the task, even when we had five blocking four.

    I think even *one* good OL could make a difference. A guy like Okung allows you to handle an edge rush DE with a single blocker, so the other four guys can block 3 (five guys when the RB is protecting or chipping, as is often the case out of our 4 receiver sets).

    @Dukeshire It streamed pretty okay for me. The issue was when I wanted to keep using the 10-second rewind. I rewind every play probably 10 times so I can look at timing of routes, the OL, and what Wilson is doing. And sometimes it’s just a bit slow to restart. But it was watchable and usable today for me, and for that I was thankful.

    I’m interested in looking at the 2nd half stuff, particularly I want to chart all the 3rd down plays. But again, I think I’m just going to see more of the same: an OL that doesn’t block *long enough* for route development, and Wilson being forced to run or rush a throw.

  95. ChrisHolmes says:

    “Everything ChrisHolmes is saying from watching the all-22 confirms what I’ve thought about RW the past couple games, and why he has nothing but praise from for doing as much as he has. As I said earlier, we saw what happened to Hass behind similarly bad line play. He couldn’t get anything done at all. It takes a very good QB to make things happen with this line play.”

    After watching some film, I’m even more impressed with Russell Wilson. His stats are actually staggering considering what he’s up against.

    I was already high on the kid and feel he’s a legit franchise QB. If we can put together a pass-blocking OL for him in the next year or two… well, he has a bright future, that’s for sure.

    And I think it’s worth mentioning: what I am seeing is smart QB who knows what he’s seeing pre-snap and where to go with the ball, and if given time he’ll work his progressions. He just doesn’t have the time to do it. If he had an OL to allow him to work progressions I think you’d see a pretty darn accurate and impressive young passer.

    As it is, the OL is so dreadful that most of his passing yards are coming off short throws to the flat or long plays in one-on-one coverage where our WR’s are making acrobatic plays (and I think we have to start crediting some of these wideouts… They can get open, and even when they’re not, they are outplaying the DB’s for the ball)

  96. Thanks ChrisHolmes!

  97. ChrisHolmes says:

    @STTBM You are very welcome!

    I enjoy this very much, looking at the film and seeing what is going on and being able to relay some stuff to you guys. I only wish I had the domain knowledge of someone like Dukeshire.

    I have one last thing to say before I abandon this thread for the others (and if I do any more analysis on the 2nd half stuff I will post in one of the newer threads):

    I give A LOT OF credit to Bevell and his playbook. He has a crapload of formations and he uses them ALL. I am recording each and every formation as I chart the plays, and damn if he ever uses the same formation twice (he does, but it’s rare). He lines his receivers up every way you can think of.

    If a team thinks they’re going to key off what Seattle is doing just based on formation, they’re probably wrong.

    And he’s not afraid to throw out of traditional running formations, or run out of passing formations. This is crucial.

    In years past we (the fans) have groused a bit about various playcallers tendencies to be predictable (Erickson always running a draw out of 4WR sets, for instance, or Holmgren always running out of the I). Bevell’s playcalling, to me, looks very unpredictable, at least formation-wise. I really dig that.

    Case in point is Kearse’s TD. It’s Wilson under center out of a 2TE single-back set (ACE or “12” personnel). I love this formation because you can do anything out of it (it should probably be renamed “Patriot” formation for the success they had with it with Hernandez and Gronk).

    The way the Colts played it, however, was as if Seattle was going to run out of it. And you can understand why; Seattle puts RW in the shotgun a lot for passing plays. Lynch was running well too. So the Colts see RW under center and think run, and they bring the SS down into a robber position to assist in run support.

    It was 4 verticals and RW threw a strike.

    It was a perfect spot on the field to take a shot too. 28 yards out. Not quite into the red-zone. Show a running formation and take a shot. I thought it was a great call by Bevell.

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