Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Sherman vs. Revis

Post by Eric Williams on Sep. 7, 2013 at 7:51 am with 49 Comments »
September 7, 2013 7:52 am
Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman is shown on the sideline before an NFL preseason football game against the Oakland Raiders, Thursday, Aug. 29, 2013, in Seattle. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)
Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman is shown on the sideline before an NFL preseason football game against the Oakland Raiders, Thursday, Aug. 29, 2013, in Seattle. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)

With much public debate back and forth on Twitter and other social media during the offseason, Andy Benoit writing for The MMQB finally takes on the task of determining what player is the better cornerback, Richard Sherman or Darrelle Revis.

And after digging through the evidence, Benoit arrived at this conclusion:

“In the end, comparing cornerbacks comes down to the old-fashioned eyeball test. As pure physical specimens, Revis looked better than Sherman, showing fluid change-of-direction for someone with his thick build. Sherman, though not stiff, took more time and had to cover more ground in transitioning in and out of his breaks. Sherman didn’t quite have the comfort with mirror technique to consistently dominate without his hands. There was also a firm, subtle strength behind Revis’s physicality. He didn’t have to exert himself; the strength was just naturally there when he needed it. Sherman was very deliberate in his physicality. We’ll know in time whether the 28-year-old Revis can be the same player coming off ACL surgery, but based on available game film, he’s the better corner.”

Mike Garafolo of Fox Sports says Sherman sees big things in store for the Seahawks and himself. Sherman tells Garafolo he’s going after the single-season interception record held by Dick “Night Train” Lane, and wants 14 interceptions this year.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com revisits Brandon Browner’s strip fumble and recovery that changed the game against Carolina last year.

Danny O’Neil of 710 ESPN Seattle writes that Russell Wilson’s improvement has the Seahawks believing big.

Jayson Jenks of The Seattle Times wrote a nice profile on Wilson.

ESPN’s Terry Blount and David Newton debate on how the Seahawks-Panthers game will shake out.

According to Footballzebras.com, Jeff Triplette’s crew is officiating the Seahawks-Panthers game.

Bill Simmons of Grantland picks the Seahawks No. 1 in his NFC power poll. Simmons: “Year after year after year, I can see the Niners and Seahawks measuring themselves against one another, lobbing potshots at each other, making sketchy roster moves clearly intended to piss off the other team (Chris Harper, everybody!), and maybe even getting into one of those postgame pseudo-brawls with 120 players milling around two assistant coaches who are screaming at each other. If it gets REALLY good, once or twice, we’ll see a free agent switch from one side to the other for more money, and we’ll all consider him a massive traitor — like how Red Sox fans felt about Johnny Damon in 2006. I think it’s going to be a blood feud. I think it’s going to be what Rex Ryan always wanted the Jets-Patriots rivalry to be … you know, before the Jets died.
“It’s going to be fantastic. I can’t wait. But for 2013? I think it’s Seattle’s year. In Russell Wilson we trust.”

Don Banks of Sports Illustrated takes the Seahawks over the Panthers, 24-14.

Doug Farrar of Sports Illustrated breaks down how the Seahawks will attempt to stop Cam Newton and the read-option.

ESPN’s Ron Jaworski offers some analysis on how second year quarterbacks Andrew Luck, RGIII and Russell Wilson will perform this season. You must be an ESPN Insider to view this.

ESPN’s John Clayton writes that the Seahawks have a tough road to the Super Bowl. Clayton: “The road to the Super Bowl is a tough one for the Seattle Seahawks, a team many consider to be the most talented in the NFC. Their problem is their road schedule. They face five teams with winning records on the road, and the other three won’t be easy — Arizona, St. Louis and Sunday’s game against the Carolina Panthers. The Panthers game is critical for the Seahawks. It’s one of five 1 p.m. ET starts on their schedule. Early games are tough for West Coast teams, whose body clocks are at 10 a.m. at kickoff. West Coast teams often get off to slow starts under these circumstances. This game is so important because three of Seattle’s 1 p.m. ET starts are against 2012 playoff teams — Houston, Indianapolis and Atlanta — and the remaining one is against the New York Giants. The Panthers are expected to improve from their 7-9 season last year. This one won’t be easy for the Seahawks.”

Joe Person of The Charlotte Observer writes that Cam Newton and Luke Kuechly are the cornerstones of the Panthers future.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 49
  1. I think everyone agrees that Revis pre-injury was probably at least slightly better than Sherman, but we don’t know how Revis will play this season. Revis may be the more natural athlete with better technique, but Sherman is catching up with his technique, has length and wingspan on his side, and you can never underestimate his hunger and desire to be the best.

  2. pabuwal says:

    I agree with Benoit about Sherman vs Revis and Clayton about the importance of tomorrow’s game at Carolina and the difficult road schedule.

  3. Seems we all talk a lot about the Seahawks pass rush, and injured pass rushers, but I think this game will be won or lost on the ground on first down.

    The Panthers receivers cannot compete with our DBs. They will try but its not going to happen. Also, the Panthers O line will have trouble with our front seven, especially since Cam will be standing in the pocket longer while his receivers are covered. This means the Panthers must have a strong ground game to win. The team with the most 3rd-and-shorts wins. The team with the most 3rd-and-longs loses.

    Word from Carolina’s training camp is that Newton was kept in the pocket most of the time in practice and they didn’t practice a lot of zone read. Newton won’t be able to stay in the pocket too long against the Seahawks though, and he will have to move and run for some of his first downs. Our DEs and OLBs need to stay disciplined in their assignments and shut down those holes that open on extended plays.

    If we can stuff the run on first down, and then squeeze Cam to the sidelines when he tries to run, we are going to frustrate this team into punts, mistakes, and turnovers.

    As for our offense, Kuechly is bound to make some plays against us, but Carolina’s DBs won’t be able to handle Rice, Tate, and Miller receiving darts from RW. Nor will their D line hold up against four quarters of BeastMode. This one might start out ugly, but the Seahawks will wear down the Panthers.

    Get ready for Steve Smith bitching and moaning from the sidelines as his team loses again.

    Seattle 27 – Carolina 17

  4. HawkyHann says:

    Please Browner be healthy. We need you, bad!

  5. I’m curious to watch Kuechly tomorrow. haven’t seen much of him. for those who have – how good is he? urlacher good?

  6. sluggo42 says:

    I would like to hear the pregame speech by Pete to fire up the guys. It is going to be very important to be able to withstand the initial punch from the lathered up panthers, cuz they seriously want to be the first to knock off the SB bound Hawks. They will come out swinging for the fences, and we need to drop a couple of licks on them to knock that silly notion that they can win right out of their heads.

    They are going to come out of the gate with a serious pass rush, so do we go toe to toe with beast right off the git-go, or do we play action and pass some quick hitters right away, with a screen, or bubble screens?

    I fricking can’t wait!

  7. pd – Kuechly is scary good. Reminds me of Bobby Wagner but taller, rangier, even more instinctive. Technically not as fast as Wagner, but he knows how to be in the right place at the right time. Leaves no doubt why Pete Carroll and others wanted to draft him. Though in the end, I’m happy we came out of that draft with Irvin and Wagner. Carolina’s D is much better with Kuechly.

  8. I’m not too worried about Browner missing this game. Our CBs can shut down Smith and LaFell on the outside. I’m more concerned about controlling their TE Olsen in the middle of the field. If we take away Olsen, Cam will be in trouble finding receivers to throw to.

  9. mindnbrad says:

    Watching Kuechly highlights is like watching a guided missile come through the line and blow up rb’s in the backfield. his speed is amazing. very impressive.

  10. montanamike2 says:

    pdway yeah he’s just slightly better than Bobby Wagner, he’s a really good player but Wagners mean streak suits our team better i think.

  11. montanamike2 says:

    Stevos i think Olsen will meet my favorite player on the team, Kam #31.

  12. montana – Agree Kam could be huge in this game!

  13. BowserMode says:

    Revis and Sherman are very close in pure coverage, but Sherman is WAY more of a playmaker.

  14. raymaines says:

    Kuechly may or may not be better than Urlacher, but at this level we would be splitting some pretty fine hairs.

    I think a lot of this game will depend on how well Seattle can rush. If they can consistently have third and short, and maintain position it should be the cakewalk I envision. If they can’t run consistently it will be a very long day.

    Things are so hard to predict for the first few weeks of a season, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Carolina (although I’m not predicting) started slow, then got all sideways and lost by 30 points. Kind of like Baltimore on Thursday.

  15. Singularitarian says:

    I think it’s hard to say a corner is better because he LOOKS smoother. I don’t give a @#$% if Someone looks like Steve Urkel in coverage, we’re not talkin style points, we’re talking efficiency. Sherman is much taller, of course he will look less fluid, but his size makes up for his slightly less body control. When it comes down to it I wouldn’t want Revis on my team because he gets paid too much, And I’m not sure I’ll want Sherman either when Lane and Maxwell will be free

  16. Stevos, IMO a good comment by you: “…[this]game will be won or lost on the ground on first down.” Thought that too watching them in the preseason: as a team, they’re so balanced that they’ll be awfully hard to beat if they’re allowed to win the first downs and get into their run-game rhythmn. And by the 4th qtr., worn the other team down enough to run at will.

  17. I think the game will be won or lost based on the final score. Super Bowl XL taught me not to care about anything with respect to game statistics or this and that on what down or anything. I got tired of winning first down last year and watching teams gain 20 yards on 3rd and 17 type of situations. I just want a “W” tomorrow, as we all do, and don’t care how it happens.

    If we win, it’s going to be great to get an early road “W” out of the way and if we lose, it’s not the end of the world, because there’s 15 more games to go with over half of them being at home.

  18. I’m glad people have been able to remain civil about Luke being a bit better than Bobby with respect to being a MLB. I love Wagner, but he’s just a notch below – although, IMO, still one of the best MLBs in all of the NFL. I’m glad nobody has said that Bobby must be better since he plays for a better team and will win more Super Bowls, IMO, than Kuechly.

    I don’t really care about the Sherm/Revis stuff. All I know is that the Revis of pre-ACL surgery was the best CB I’ve ever seen (and that included D. Sanders simply because Revis can actually make a tackle). Now with Sherm, I think he’s a bit more physical and longer – love him. I think you can flip a coin on those two as to who is better moving forward, if Revis is 100%, but I’d take Sherm at his age without a major injury any day of the week over Revis (and his salary). When Sherm gets extended at megabucks, I’ll still take him. I believe that our regime knows how good he is and have a plan to pay he and ET. They have proven they are too smart to be dumb (unlike Numbskull and that one superstar he lost). If we had to choose between an outsider (AND 3 draft picks) over one of ET/Sherm – I think we all know what we’d rather have so there’s still no way we’ll let a superstar leave if we were willing to trade for a good malcontent only to allow a legit superstar to eventually leave. Have faith in Mr. Happy and the Duke Boy until they prove otherwise…

  19. Its really not important to decide whether Sherman or Revis is better.

    What’s important to our team will be to determine (by the end of the season) how much Sherman and Browner and Thurmond are each worth to this team in terms of long-term contracts.

    Browner and Thurmond are both FA next year, and Sherman in 2015. The team needs to pick one or two of these guys to invest in, and the remaining one or two will sign elsewhere for more money than we can pay.

  20. Jets released Brady Quinn

  21. PEARLJAM23 says:

    Good posts BobbyK.

  22. Every player on every team has a number or curve describing the performance level (expected prior to the game) and range of performance he provided (recorded after the game) and what he is expected to be capable of providing on every snap of every future game. We like to see where they are stretching that performance curve in a positive way and also when that performance curve is moving in a bad way… That’s why we like to look at stats. Stats don’t replace seeing the on-field performance.

    If we want to see how good Bobby Wagner and Luke Kuechly are, PFF ranked Wagner 1st in percentage of making run stops and Kuechly 3rd for the 2012 season. In pass rush productivity, Wagner was 3rd and Kuechly 21st. In tackling efficiency Wagner was 10th and Kuechly 16th. In pass coverage, Wagner was 14th and Kuechly 39th. Kuechly is good, Wagner is better.

    About CAR’s Read Option offense, http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/37579/cam-newton-and-the-diversity-of-carolinas-zone-read-package which describes their offensive performances in weeks 1&2 games of 2012, and how they switch between the read option and the zone read. Cold Hard Football Facts als has a good article on myths about CAR’s offense that I wish I’d read some time back: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/nfl-myth-busting-dont-blame-read-option-for-carolina-panthers-7-9-record/23378/

    Another interesting article was by Mike Tanier, telling the number of times teams offenses run spread-type offenses. So far it’s been kinda small: http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/51548778 and how much CAR’s offense uses spread-type run formations to pass. Interesting…

  23. sluggo42 says:

    Actually, who gives a rats arise who is better. I just want Sherman to be better than Cam.

    Bobby best post of the day. ” the game will be decided by the final score”
    Who knew that?

    Don’t really care for Sherman predicting int’s for the year. Just do it mate. You look foolish if you come up with half that many…

    One thing I have been wondering is that we haven’t spoken about the option play making the QB vulnerable in how clay Matthews has talked about drilling Kaperneck. I wonder if Wags and co. Are planning on wiping out Cam no matter what, and if the panther lb’s are thinking the same thing about RW, or, are we not going to run it as often?

  24. Luke Kuechly is a stud and I was hoping he would fall to Seattle – I love Bwags – but if we had the opportunity to upgrade, it wouldn’t break my heart.

  25. Wagner played better than Kuechly in the ’12 reg season.

  26. montanamike2 says:

    Wags plays better for THIS team. I don’t see Kuechly as having such a nasty mean side, if he is better it’s insignificantly.

  27. Hawkjitsu says:

    Patriots just resigned Leon Washington. Good for them and him.

    Now picture this – Super Bowl. 4th Quarter. SEA vs. NE. R-Dub has just engineered a 92 yard drive capped off by a TD pass to Percy Harvin. That score puts us ahead 30-24 with 6 seconds left in regulation. Haushka tries to put it through the end zone, but due to the stormy weather (Storm Bowl?), Leon takes it at the 5 yard line. He finds a seam, spots some daylight, and right as he’s getting that ‘Oh my god. I’m going to win the Super Bowl’ feeling in his stomach…BOOOOOM. He’s leveled by Farwell and the ball shoots right into the arms of Mayowa, who kneels down and then joins the party.

    Here’s the question: What kind of anti-depressants should the doctor prescribe Leon?

  28. Wagner played better than Kuechly in the ’12 reg season. Through Seahawk colored glasses sure

  29. montanamike2 says:

    I’ll admit to wearing ‘Hawk glasses.

  30. sluggo42 says:

    17.5 hours

  31. PFF has never worn “Seahawk colored glasses”.

  32. good stuff klm008

    Stats are great, but in the TEAM GAME of football, individual player stats are never comparable.

    Wagner made statistically more stops against run or pass plays while playing on the Seahawks defense, with Seahawks defensive linemen funneling running back to him as the Seahawks defensive scheme allows, and with Seahawks DBs covering receivers behind him as Seahawks DBs do.

    None of which is directly comparable to what Luke Kuechly did on a different team.

    Kuechly was drafted higher than BWags for a reason. Knowing what scouts know about each player now, I doubt that most would rate BWags higher. I don’t care though, BWags does his job well in our defense and that’s all that matters.

  33. I’ll admit to raising glasses to the Hawks.

  34. DreadHawks says:

    I’m looking at 2 things this year.
    3rd down on Offense
    3rd down on Defense
    Those 2 areas are key to our run to the Super Bowl. I think Russell will be better and that in itself is scary. I think Quinn will be far more aggresive than Bradley and I think his blitzing scheme will be better and more successful.Improve on these two areas and I believe the sky is the limit.

  35. Audible says:

    “In the end, comparing cornerbacks comes down to the old-fashioned eyeball test”

    Great analysis…if they were a couple of cute cheerleaders!

    Here’s my analysis…

    1. Comparable numbers so far…but Sherman’s style is more aggressive and intimidating to opposing players. Advantage Sherman.

    2. Sherman has traveled a farther distance to get to where he’s at now, which led from Compton to Stanford to an All-Pro in the NFL. He had more adversity to overcome along the way. Advantage Sherman.

    3. Revis was a 1st round draft-choice and was expected to be good. Team after team passed on Sherman who had to make a roster spot for himself with his play.

    4. Revis comes from a family of athletes, including his mom who was a track star, and his uncle, Sean Gilbert, who used to be in the NFL, so he Revis had mentoring growing up and someone to show him from the inside had to be successful. Sherman’s dad drives a garbage truck. Advantage Sherman.

    You might argue, “what do these things have to do with his play on the field.” A hell of a lot, if you ask me.

    It takes guts and determination and desire to accomplish what Sherman has so far. Since he’s had to travel a farther distance in the same amount of time as Revis (or less), I’d say his play is more impressive.

    Also consider the ROI to their teams…The Jets used the 14th pick in the 1st round to draft Revis, whereas Sherman was drafted at a spot that often gets cut (see Harper, Chris).

    Add Revis’s 13 million salary and cap hit, compared to Sherman’s paltry $465K salary…

    And, let’s also not forget that Sherman is three years younger than Revis…

    So, I don’t care how good Revis looks…I still think Sherman is the better corner.

    So, Revis may want to heed some smart advice, and “Get ya picks up!”.

  36. Revis is the better corner–based on the level he was at pre-injury compared to Sherm last year. Revis is the better athlete, but Sherm has the size advantage. Revis can cover anyone, anytime–Sherm is only great when playing outside. But Sherm is better at baiting teams into mistakes, and knows what all his teammates are doing–Revis seems to take care of his own business. Sherman can shut his man down and jump another guys route for a pick–we’ve seen it. Sherman plays angry and simply burns to be the best every single play–and that won’t ever stop.

    The choice is up to opinion. I’m glad to have Sherm and the Bucs can have Revis.

    Kuechly is better than Wagner, period. But that’s just one year, and Wagner is so good who cares? We’re damned lucky to have him for a second round pick and salary.

  37. raymaines says:

    KLM: You are one of the genuine weirdos on this board, and I mean that in a good way. I don’t have the interest to compile the stats you seem to love so much, but I really enjoy reading your stuff. Keep it up, my brother, keep it up.

  38. raymaines says:

    … and didn’t all this Sherman/Revis stuff get started when RS answered a question about who was the best CB in the league? He left DR off of the list because he (DR) was injured and not playing, i.e. DR wasn’t technically in the league?

    Who’s better? RS thinks he is, but who knows and frankly, who cares? They’re both really, really good. I posted on a different thread about different players, that we are splitting some pretty fine hairs here.

  39. FairbanksDoug says:

    Just some issues I see in this Sherman vs Revis ordeal.
    Who was the counterpart to Revis? Was he as good as Browner, if not I imagine just that alone would mean Revis is targeted a lot less. My impression is that Sherman could hang closer to the receiver if desired, but chooses not to in trying to bate the quarterback into throwing his way hoping to intercept the pass . This thing about Revis island is legitimate but may be exaggerated a bit because it was just so much easier to throw to the other side.
    And this crud about Sherman shooting for the 15 interceptions, I think it’s great, even if he doesn’t do any more then six. It’s a goal. Sherman is an intelligent guy and I am sure he has his plan on how he will go about it. I understand this is a bit of a trademark for him to set lofty, almost impossible goals and then goes about trying to achieve it. Gawd I wish I had developed that habit. Gawwd I wish my kids would. Think I need to get one of those life sized posters to put in my kids room.

  40. raymaines says:

    I’m watching WSU vs. USC. USC just scored because a WSU DT bit on a fake and went inside, while the USC QB held the ball and ran outside for six yards and a TD.

    I say again……….

    If the ‘Hawks play assignment defense they will do OK. The offense will score enough to win if the D does it’s job.

    So here’s the deal: The O gets a few yards on every first and second down, converts most third downs, takes advantage of any Carolina defensive “cheating” and scores on every other possession. The ‘Hawks defense makes Carolina work hard for everything and generally comes out ahead in every possession. Cam Newton gets all stupid in the fourth quarter and the ‘Hawks win going away. Go ‘Hawks.

  41. seaturkeys says:

    Sherman is better at life!

  42. edstang45 says:

    I,d take Sherm over Revis all day long….He’s a Seahawk…Revis is an Island, Sherm is a Team player and in my opinion feeds the rest of the team, makes them a complete unit. Revis as I have seen him on film during his rehab he is all about Revis.. Sherm is all about the Seattle Seahawks, when he boast’s and trash talks I think he is speaking for the whole defense baby….Go Hawks

  43. edstang45 says:

    Ok raymaines I’m gonna hold ya too it…haha…

  44. in the whole debate this . ..”Revis is an Island, Sherm is a Team player and in my opinion feeds the rest of the team, makes them a complete unit.” is the best thing I have read, and SOOO very true!!!

  45. Hawkjitsu says:

    I have asked so many open ended questions and I don’t believe I’ve received a single answer. Where’s the 12th Man love? I’ve even asked questions directed at certain people. Nary a response. Don’t want to sound like a cry baby, but I enjoy reading the blog. I’d also enjoy getting in on discussions. *GO HAWKS*

  46. Revis played next to Antonio Cromartie for 2+ years. Cromartie is a very good CB. Not going to get into a pissing contest about whether BB or him is better.

    Which is better, Coke or Pepsi? Pretty much the same thing here. There’s no way to objectively say one is better than the other. They are both great. The Hawks certainly got more out of what they have invested in Sherm than the Jets had to invest in Revis.

    “Kuechly was drafted higher than BWags for a reason.” -Stevos

    Well, I guess there must’ve been 74 better players in the 2012 draft than RW? And Weeden must be a better QB? I know you weren’t saying this, but draft position doesn’t mean anything as far as who the better player in the NFL is.

    You could go either way with these 2 players as well. You certainly don’t have to be a homer to think that Wagner is better. It’s splitting hairs to me. It’s your amateur scouting report versus another one. And I don’t mean amateur in a yanker/offensive way. It’s amateur if you aren’t paid to scout players.

    They don’t play exactly the same scheme and play with different players, but their numbers were very similar. Kuechley had 164 tackles and Wags had 140. I’m not going to go over the problems with the tackles statistic again. Wags had 2 sacks, Kuechley one. I think Kuechly is a little better overall in coverage, but Wags makes more big plays. Kuechly had 8 passes defended. Wags had 4. Kuechly had 2 INTs and Wags had 3, though Wags would’ve had 4 if not for a god awful roughing the passer call against Miami. I would say that the Hawks got better value taking Wags 47th than taking Kuechly at 9. Especially since they also got Korey Toomer and Greg Scruggs by trading back in the 2nd round.

  47. Hawkjitsu, they should prescribe Leon Prozac. You happy now? ;-)

  48. JoeinKirkland says:

    Go Hawks!!! I’m so excited I can’t sleep.

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