Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Don’t worry about those penalties

Post by Eric Williams on Aug. 26, 2013 at 7:14 am with 55 Comments »
August 26, 2013 7:14 am
Players scuffle during the first half of an NFL preseason football game between the Green Bay Packers and the Seattle Seahawks Friday, Aug. 23, 2013, in Green Bay, Wis. (AP Photo/Jeffrey Phelps)
Players scuffle during the first half of an NFL preseason football game between the Green Bay Packers and the Seattle Seahawks Friday, Aug. 23, 2013, in Green Bay, Wis. (AP Photo/Jeffrey Phelps)

Dave Wyman of 710 ESPN Seattle, a former player for the Seahawks, tells us not to worry about Seattle’s truckload of penalties during exhibition play.

Wyman believes a rash of penalties during preseason play don’t always move into the preseason, and that it’s something Seattle can get cleaned up in time for the team’s opener at Carolina on Sept. 8.

Wyman: “Before you start wringing your hands over one of the few weaknesses this Seahawk team has shown, don’t worry. As it turns out, penalties don’t always tell the story of a team’s success, and it certainly hasn’t for the Hawks this preseason. Last year’s Super Bowl winner, the Baltimore Ravens, ranked first in penalty yardage, as they were flagged for 1,127 yards during the 2012 regular season. Three other playoff teams ranked high on that list, including the Washington Redskins, Green Bay Packers and NFC Champion San Francisco 49ers.

“Certainly bad teams commit lots of penalties, but rest assured it’s not an incredibly telling statistic like turnover ratio or scoring defense. Yes, the Oakland Raiders and Cleveland Browns amass lots of penalties every season, and neither team has made it to the playoffs in years. But sometimes the most penalized teams are also the most aggressive teams. You’re probably going to see pass interference and unnecessary roughness penalties out of the Seahawks no matter how much things get cleaned up. The offensive linemen and defensive backs that the Seahawks covet are typically a rough bunch of dudes. (J.R.) Sweezy, Breno Giacomini, Brandon Browner and Kam Chancellor are the kind of guys that will hit first and ask questions later.”

Rob Rang of NFLDraftScout.com writes that rookie Christine Michael showed the future is bright at the running back position for the Seahawks with his performance against Green Bay.

The Seahawks do not have to announce roster cuts down to 75 until Tuesday, but it looks like linebacker Craig Wilkens has been let go.

Russell Wilson takes on Colin Kaepernick in Madden 25. Check out the video below.

Vic Tafur of the San Francisco Chronicle reports that Terrelle Pryor will play in favor of Matt Flynn when Oakland travels to Seattle to face the Seahawks on Thursday because the LSU product has a sore arm. Flynn suffered from the same injury last season, forcing him to miss the third preseason game against Kansas City, and ultimately lose his job to Russell Wilson.

Mike Chappell of the Indianapolis Star writes that University of Washington product Caesar Rayford had two more sacks against Cleveland, and now has five during the preseason in his bid to make the Colts’ roster.

Michael Gehlken of U-T San Diego writes that former Seahawk Deon Butler was one of 10 cuts by the Chargers over the weekend. University of Idaho product Nathan Enderle also was cut.

Ebenezer Samuel of the New York Daily News reports that Aaron Curry has been cut by the New York Giants.

Bob Condotta of The Seattle Times writes that the cuts over the weekend further illustrate Tim Ruskell’s bad draft in 2009. Second round selection Max Unger is the only player that remains with Seattle.

Pat Kirwan of CBS Sports wonders if it is time to get rid of the entire preseason.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 55
  1. banosser says:

    A fairly good percentage of the penalties in the GB game were very borderline or completely bogus calls to start with.. very poorly officiated game..

  2. chuck_easton says:

    Cuts don’t have to be officially made until 4pm ET tomorrow. But teams are already handling business. Seattle will as well today.

    The reason is simple. The team practices today. Why let a guy go out and go through a full practice if you know he’s going to be cut? The 15 guys that are going to be let go are being told now and they won’t be on the field for today’s practice.

  3. banosser says:

    Aaron Curry… $34M guaranteed in ’09… I think that’s more than Lief got out of SD

  4. Tim Ruskell was good at drafting second rounders (and an occasional third or fourth rounder). He was abysmal in the first round. He produced an average of about two solid players in each draft.

    John Schneider, on the other hand, has produced about five solid players in each draft. That’s a big difference.

  5. WiscCory says:

    Some thoughts and stories from Friday’s game in Green Bay.

    Golden Tate was given the bird: I was sitting about 9 rows behind the players. Had alot of interaction with players as a result, which was cool. In the 3rd Quarter, Tate was walking near the bench and a Packer fan a few rows closer from of me hollared “Hey Golden Tate”. As Tate looked up, the idiot Packer fan pulled out the double bird and shouted something. Golden just nodded and smirked. The idiot turned to his friends and boasted about how he’d be on ESPN that night. I shouted down to him “It’s still a touchdown, and the Seahawks still won that game.” Idiot just smiled and shrugged. About 5 minutes later, a security officer came and escorted that fan out of the stadium. Kudos to Lambeau security, and their zero tolerance for that type of behavior.

    Sean McGrath is very cool. At the end of the game, Sean snuck a football to a buddy of his that was sitting near me. I sent my son immediately to the railing with a penant and a sharpie, however Sean had to get back to the sideline and greet the Packers. He went about that, but then made a point to come back and sign autographs for my son and daughter. At that moment, I told Sean that Moses called and wanted his beard back. McGrath just cracked up and joked with us and some of the Packer fans there. He’s a class act, and a cool dude.

    Blackmon’s pick was stolen from him. That PI penatly was a crock of crap!

    Christine Michael is a serious playmaker. Whereas, Turbin seemed ordinary. Maybe that’s obvious, however we’ve debated in this forum the effectiveness of Turbin. I think both will make the roster, however it will be interesting to watch this one play out. I guess my point is it seems there are many 2nd tier RBs out there that can do what Turbin did on Friday, however very few that have the burst of speed that Michael brings. In a statement of irony, TURBO should be Micheal’s nichname.

    Isn’t Stephen Williams and awesome story? He’s likely #5 in depth, however it’s great to see him succeed in the preseason.

    Cable is intense, and coaches nonstop throughout the game. They are still making alot of player adjustments during the game, which is concerning. Obviously, the Oline is still unsettled at guard, and it would ideal to see Carp come back and stay healthy, with McQ moved to the right side to push Sweezy to be better, or to his likely role as a back-up.

  6. Yes, Chuck, players who are being cut have probably already been informed. If all of them were eager to announce their unemployment on Twitter, we’d have the entire list by now.

    I’m sure most of them already had an idea they wouldn’t be making the team, based on how much playing time they got in the last game or how they performed. But it’ll be a shock for one or two.

    It was probably a big shock for Aaron Curry that the Giants were cutting him. If I were him, I’d head north and try to make it in the CFL. Yes, his chances of making a CFL team are slim, but he’s got to try something.

  7. banosser says:

    Curry’s Seattle Times signing article http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2009625291_hawk09.html

    Got his $$$ and decided to move his Saturday afternoon naps to Sunday..

  8. Dukeshire says:

    Yes, Stephen Williams is one of the best stories coming out of camp.

    And while Wyman points out last season’s success by teams that commit many penalties, that is mostly an outlier. Seattle needs to clean it up if they want to achieve their goals, IMO.

  9. yankinta says:

    Christine Michael is such a STEAL!! Shows the world how much better Seahawks FO is at evaluating talent than 49er FO. Denver’s John Elway is the other FO that is living off of the previous regime’s good moves/draft picks…

    Now I can’t wait to see what Jordan Hill and Luke Willson will do in the regular season. Our Future is SOOO Bright, I cannot wait to get there!!

  10. bbnate420 says:

    You certainly can’t accept 180 penalty yards in a game, but I can live with a certain amount of aggressive penalties. The Hawks were 17th in penalty yards in 2012. I’m fine with that. Sure, it’d be great to be #1, but there style of play will probably not allow that.

    It’s the stupid penalties I can’t accept. Pre-snap penalties and holding consistently on the o-line because you are getting beat or are slow to react to the play. I consider the Sweezy PF penalty Friday to be stupid rather than aggressive BTW. It’s just stupid when you dive in there that late.

    I also think that the officials are making lots of calls to set a tone for the regular season that wouldn’t automatically be called in the regular season. There have been all kinds of horrible PF calls. And I’m certainly not just referring to Hawks games. One thing that is worrisome is when the league fines a player for a horrible PF call, a la the Jon Bostic hit. If they simply want to outlaw hard hits then that’s a different discussion, but that hit was by the book. It’s still devastating and likely to cause brain injuries. But it’s supposedly legal right.

  11. bbnate420 says:

    Yeah, it wasn’t Elway that signed Peyton Manning and shipped off Tebow. Oh wait.

  12. Singularitarian says:

    Yankinta- You seem to be one of those fans that has to love what your team does and talk down about all the other teams. SF has got a pretty nice young RB group of their own, and Quinton Patton is looking like a much better draft than Harper. It’s like, dis Kapernick, Dis the FO, dog the running backs of the best running team in the league. I mean, I like Seattle too but I am not blind to the fact that the 9ers were just in the superbowl

  13. yankinta says:

    bbnate420, did Elway pick Peyton Manning or Peyton Manning chose Denver?? C’mon dude, you’re better than this. If anything, Elway got lucky!!. Peyton picked Denver because it was the best team for him win a ring with (a team that was build by the previous regime),, not because of he wanted to play for Elway…. and Name another good move made by John Elway other than starting QB position.

  14. yankinta says:

    Singularitarian, other than CK, I don’t really see a steal/pro bowlers, in the draft made by the current 49ers FO. Quinton Patton has played well so far but not as well as Christine Michaels has shown,, sorry dude. I am just stating the obvious.

    And I’m not being a homer. I love what Cincy had done,, like picking a STUD DT in the fourth round. I’m picking Cincy to come out of the AFC. I love Packers FO too, you’ll not hear me talk bad about them…. I’m just not a band-wagon jumpers like others,, believing everything ESPN so-called experts say.

  15. yankinta says:

    bbnate420, if you wanna give Elway credit for shipping away Tebow, then I guess you and I are on differently level, when it comes to recognizing what/who a good GM is…. lol, smh,,

  16. Singularitarian says:

    Aldon Smith?

  17. Singularitarian says:

    Last time I checked Aldon Smith was an all pro

  18. RDPoulsbo says:

    I think Michael is good, but I still don’t see how it’s a good pick vs. picking o-line.

    Remember that refs are in preseason as well, trying out some new guys for their taxi squad. Most will be cut just like players. Still, the number of penalties needs to be cut down, especially the holds and false starts.

  19. WiscCory, good WI sideline reporting, thank you. Agree on Cable, after watching him in practice, always intensely coaching like you noted, but also sense his players find it more up than downside. This team’s key traits are impact speed and intensity. But the game has become far more complicated and it’s still not clear IMO how smart-enough they’ll play throughout the regular season and hopefully beyond. But we’ll find out about that too for sure.

  20. yankinta says:

    Singularitarian, lol, I knew you were gonna go there. So let’s see, how many sacks/hits/pressure did he have without Justin Smith in the line up, last season/playoff. The answer would be ZERO. So is Aldon Smith really good or is it because of Justin Smith?

  21. lame thread this morning. let’s insult, nitpick, and brag that our predictions are always right, shall we?

    here’s a guess as to who gets cut by tomorrow:
    WR Brett Swain
    WR Perez Ashford
    WR Arceto Clark

    WR Bryan Walters
    WR Donavon Kemp
    TE Darren Fells

    TE Jameson Konz

    TE Andrei Lintz
    G/T Ryan Seymour

    G/C Jared Smith
    DT/DE Martin Parker
    LB Craig Wilkins 

    LB Kyle Knox
    S/CB Ron Parker
    LS Kyle Nelson

  22. banosser says:

    Michaels was a second round pick… He better be pretty decent..

    Manning wanted to stay in the AFC and knew the West was weak, and gave him the best shot at the playoffs.. If all he wanted was a ring He’d of chosen SF and he’d have it right now.. Who knows.. if he’d of chosen SF they might have even stepped up and traded for Harvin and signed Welker..

  23. yankinta says:

    banosser, so I guess you agree that it was Manning that picked Elway,, not the other way around,, right? yet, everyone wants to give the credit to Elway, because ESPN Experts says so. smh…

  24. banosser says:

    Yes.. I believe Denver was on the top of his list.. Elway being there made it that much easier.. and Elway needed a good reason to jettison T-bo.. it was a very symbiotic decision

  25. bbnate420 says:

    Duke, I’m not sure you’re right that it’s just a statistical outlier. After a little examination, it doesn’t look like there’s even that strong of a correlation between penalty yards and wins. And correlation doesn’t automatically equate to causation.

    The top 16 teams in penalty yards per game in 2012 had 136 wins. The bottom 16 teams had 119 wins. That’s approx. 1 win per team more. The top 16 had 6 playoff teams. The bottom 16 had 6 playoff teams. The middle of the list seemed to be the best predictor of making the playoffs. Teams 10-20 had 6 playoff teams.

    Take 2011. The Colts were #1 and Jags #3 in penalty yards a game. Both were god awful, though that doesn’t necessarily prove a trend. The top 16 teams in penalty yards had 8 playoff teams. The bottom 16 4 playoff teams. Teams 10-20 had 4 playoff teams. The top 16 teams had 137 wins. The bottom 16 teams had 119 wins. That’s almost the same as 2012. There was one tie in 2012, so there was one less win out there.

    In 2010, the top 16 teams in penalty yards had 6 playoff teams. The bottom 16 had 6 playoff teams obviously. Teams 10-20 had 5 playoff teams. The top 16 teams had 134 wins. The bottom 16 teams had 122 wins.

    In 2009, the top 16 teams in penalty yards had 5 playoff teams. The bottom 16 teams had 7 playoff teams. Teams 10-20 had 4 playoff teams. The top ten teams only had 2 playoff teams.

    I know penalties leading to losses is conventional wisdom, but it doesn’t seem to hold water. You’d need to analyze more years to get a better idea, but there doesn’t seem to be any correlation even the last 4 years.

    Obviously penalty yards hurt you in a game. But that has to be weighed against being a physical team and other factors that help you win but may lead to more penalties. I would guess that you’d see more of a correlation with mental penalties and winning and losing. I just want the Hawks to limit the mental mistakes. I can live with aggressive penalties and not being top ten in penalty yards a game.

  26. Singularitarian says:

    I think Elway was a part of the process. I think he probably helped Manning feel comfortable and assured him they’d run the offense the way Peyton wanted. Not the end all be all but he definitely had an impact. For the record Elway make is my #1 most hated athlete. Guy is a tool

  27. yankinta says:

    banosser and Singularitarian, that is all I am saying. It was a no Brainer for Elway, it was a no Brainer for my Grandma, if she was a NFL GM..,, to sign a future HOF. So then why should Elway get credit for it. I want Elway to actually earn the praise as a GM by making some good picks/signings, before I think he’s a good GM. But who cares what I think, right? :)

  28. montanamike2 says:

    Manning chose Denver because he already knew the AFC and how weak it is right now so he has the best chance of making the SB. The other factor is his brother in the NFC and the possibility of facing him in the big show.

  29. yankinta says:

    Yup, Denver played against 4th easiest Schedule last year. Colts played the easiest. This year, Denver will play against the Easiest schedule. I guess he made the right choice. But I still think Cincy will come out of the AFC. I love their team, except for their QB… but they don’t need exceptional QB play,, they just need decent QB play to make some noise.

  30. tealskin says:

    Staying in the AFC was probably top of list for Manning. Of the options Denver was the best fit. Pretty simple actually. Elway was a killer at QB that broke a lot of hearts. Could be a great GM too, although don’t think it was that hard a sale to get Peyton.

  31. bbnate420 says:

    http://www.nfl.com/standings?category=div&season=2011-REG&split=Overall

    http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalty-yards-per-game?date=2013-02-03

    Here’s some links if you want to check the stats in my tome.

    yanker, just when I think you may be learning to act like an adult. There’s really no reason to argue with your brand of “logic”. Elway drafted Von Miller. I guess he sucks? He hired John Fox. That sucked, right? A BUNCH of teams went after Manning, including our beloved Hawks. He chose the Broncos. But I guess Elway had nothing to do with that? They were 8-8 in 2011. Manning hardly chose a juggernaut. I guess Elway didn’t sign Champ Bailey to a new deal either? SMH. :-)

    And I’m not even claiming that Elway is a good executive. I don’t think there’s been enough time to say that or not. Plenty of people weren’t really high on PC/JS going into their 3rd year, even here. It’s asinine though to say that Elway has just lived off of what Josh McDaniels built. I don’t know how Elway will turn out in the long run. Neither do you. But you always seem to need to make these proclamations about stuff you don’t know spit about and act like a tool if someone disagrees. And you’ll be nowhere to be found should you be shown to be wrong. You’ll just keep repeating that lie about you being on the RW bang wagon from day one.

  32. Peyton Manning had plenty of options. The best offer was from Tennessee. They offered him everything including the chance to go back to TN where he is a hero, and part team ownership for he and his father. Seems that Peyton must have truly liked what Elway is building in Denver as their VP/GM and believed they could win the big one together. Its hard to doubt Manning’s judgement I think.

  33. FleaFlicker says:

    When did the banner change? Regardless, I love it. RW for president!

  34. yankinta says:

    bbnate420, Von Miller was no Steal at No. 2 overall. Panthers just had a terrible GM to not pick him up. My GrandMa would have picked Von Miller with No.2 Overall pick. If you really want to credit John Elway for making an OBVIOUS move, then I guess, I’m speechless. lol :)

  35. sluggo42 says:

    Good morning everyone, happy sunshine!

    Stevos-
    Easy calls this cut, next one might be a little tougher eh, hehe.

    Yanker- you funny mate…

    Nate, I got halfway through your stat sheet post before I fell asleep… Interesting, but….zzzzzzzzzzzzz
    What was the final analysis? More penalties or less is good? Lol

    Y’all are so serious this morning! Go get a cinnamon bun and eat it!

  36. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Rookie DT Jesse Williams on IR

  37. SEA’s cut-downs, so far:
    WR Perez Ashford,
    LB Kyle Knox,
    TE Jameson Konz,
    TE Andrei Lintz,
    TE/LS Kyle Nelson,
    DT Martin Parker,
    WR Brett Swain,
    LB Craig Wilkins

  38. MoSeahawk12 says:

    No Monstarr this season. Hopefully he can get his knee right and contribute next year.

  39. sluggo42 says:

    Ya, monstar doesn’t surprise me, I’m hoping our dr’s have a look at his knee and fix it right so he possibly can help next year or two. Could be a chance taken that just doesn’t ever work out.

    Poor Konz
    Seems like Swain had some skills…

  40. bbnate420 says:

    “It was a no Brainer for Elway, it was a no Brainer for my Grandma, if she was a NFL GM..,, to sign a future HOF. So then why should Elway get credit for it.”

    Yeah, it was a no-brainer for half of the league, but who signed him? The Hawks were so desperate that they sent PA’s private plane to meet him at the airport after he declined a visit. I guess it doesn’t mean anything to get it done because it was a clear move. So, I guess PC and JS are idiots for not getting it done?

    What about signing Fox? Bailey? Von Miller wasn’t a no-brainer. I’m not sure anyone should take your word on what a no-brainer is anyways. Remember when it was a no-brainer that the Hawks would get a 3rd and a conditional pick for noodle arm? Plenty of people had them taking Dareus. It’s easy to just write off every good move with nonsense if you have no interest in being logical. Why is it that you need to act like you know things for sure that you obviously don’t?

  41. yankinta says:

    bbnate420, lol, you just don’t get it dude,, nvm, you win. I’m tired to explaining it over and over again. :) At least most of the people on this blog get it.

    sluggo42, I thought that Jessie Williams would end up on IR, back on Aug 2nd,, but Duke and a few others killed me for thinking that. lol. I guess I was right all along. I said back then that I’m not giving up on him. It was still a very good 5th round pick, if he comes back healthy and help us stop the Run… He could still be considered a steal, if he can go back to playing at a 1st round pick talent.

  42. bbnate420 says:

    sluggo, the conclusion was that there is no real statistical correlation between the amount of penalty yards a team has and wins or making the playoffs from 2009-2012. And a correlation wouldn’t prove causation anyways, i.e. that the penalty yards were a major determining factor. If anything, being between 10-20 seemed to be more predictive of making the playoffs.

    It’s rather amazing how similar Flynn’s preseason has been this year to 2012. He’s going to sit out with a sore arm. A young, mobile QB is outperforming him. In the games at least. Though I highly doubt Pryor will ever be in the same class as RW. I’d feel bad for him if he wasn’t a millionaire with a hot wife who will probably draw an NFL check for another 7-10 years.

  43. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Most people would be a stretch.

  44. bbnate420 says:

    A giant stretch. Denial ain’t just a river in Africa.

  45. Yes, and as MoSeahawk said, J.Williams was placed on IR: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/26/seahawks-place-jesse-williams-on-injured-reserve-release-eight/

    Anybody notice that ex-Wazzu QB Jeff Tuel is being projected as the starting QB for the Bills in week 1 (vz the Pats)? EJ Manuel is still injured…

    Jets cut Braylon Edwards, wonder if the 9ers are interested?

  46. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Pats 1-0 already. What a lame division.

  47. bbnate420 says:

    yanker, there’s nothing to understand. It’s just blusterous speculation backed up by some asinine reasoning. smh. :-)

    sluggo, I wouldn’t count on the doctors doing anything that significant with Williams’ knee, though that is obviously speculation. It seemed to me that he dropped due to many medical reports of him having a chronic knee condition, i.e. it get worse with time. He could potentially make it better with physical therapy and taking enough pain killers to gut out some years in the NFL. He probably needs to lose some upper body weight and strengthen his legs. He looks top heavy. That won’t help a knee condition. Hopefully, the Hawks can get a few productive years out of him. I wouldn’t count on him having a long, pro bowl career.

  48. Dukeshire says:

    yankinta – I just looked at all your comments in the three threads from Aug 2, and nowhere did you mention Jesse Williams, let alone where I “killed you”. Perhaps you have the wrong date. And person. I’ll anxiously await for you to post the example of where I “killed you” for saying Williams would end up on IR.

  49. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire, I actually shared my observation of the practice that I went to on Aug 1st,, I shared that on Aug 5th… :) Let me see if I can find it.

  50. yankinta says:

    Here’s my post from Aug 5th :)

    xcman, you asked for my observation from last Thursday Practice,, I only stayed there for 2 hours and they only did the 7 on 7 for about 40 min while I was there. I was looking for Stephen Williams to do well but he didn’t make any catches,, Kearse on the other hand stood out, made a few nice catches. I think Kearse and Stephen Williams will battle for PH’s Roster Spot….

    I also noticed Jordan Hill during D-Line Drills,, he looked really good. I think he will make some noise once the season starts,, A lot of people are overlooking him. Jaye Howard and Clinton McDonald looked very good too. I think that Jessie Williams will have a hard time making Roster, which is a shame because I was cheering for him. Hopefully he’ll clear waiver and make it to PS and get healthy this season.,, If we can keep him and if he can come back healthy then it was still worth a 5th round pick. I still think he’s late 1st round talent as a DT…

    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2013/08/05/morning-links-te-willson-looks-the-part/#comments#storylink=cpy

  51. yankinta says:

    Here’s the other post from Aug 5th… :)

    tchristensen and Duke,, I was just sharing my observation based on Thursday Practice that I went to…. Jesse Williams did not play as of Thursday. He returned on Friday… Someone asked me to share what I saw on Thursday. you don’t have to get bent out of shape,, relax….

    I really hope Jesse Williams will make it because he was on my wish list before the draft,,, we need him to fix that Run-D that was failing in the second half of last year,,,

    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2013/08/05/morning-links-te-willson-looks-the-part/#comments#storylink=cpy

  52. Dukeshire says:

    I remember those exchanges. Still waiting for where I “killed” you (or even said you were wrong). I did say however that your observations were “interesting” and “curious”.

    I’m also curious where you said you thought Williams would end up on IR, around that time. In the links you provided, I didn’t see that either. Although I did skim then quickly.

  53. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire, lol, I get killed a few times here so I may have been confused with which is which,, sorry about that. :)

  54. Dukeshire says:

    No worries. I just don’t want to take others’ credit. lol

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