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Carroll on 710 ESPN Seattle: Avril out indefinitely with hamstring issue

Post by Eric Williams on Aug. 26, 2013 at 10:39 am with 55 Comments »
August 26, 2013 10:39 am

In a conversation with Brock Huard and Danny O’Neil of 710 ESPN Seattle, head coach Pete Carroll delivered a couple a tidbits heading into this morning’s practice.

Listen to conversation with Carroll here.

Carroll said that defensive end Cliff Avril once again tweaked his hamstring last week in practice, and is out indefinitely.

I noticed during pre-game warm-ups in Green Bay that Avril was laboring while working with the training staff.

“We don’t know when he’s going to get back,” Carroll said.

With Avril out, Carroll said the Seahawks will be counting more on contributions from Mike Morgan and Benson Mayowa.

Carroll also said that defensive tackle Tony McDaniel played well in his first preseason action.

While Avril’s injury is a major concern for Seattle’s defense, the offense will receive a boost with offensive lineman James Carpenter returning to practice this week. Carpenter had been nursing a foot issue, but looked good running before the Green Bay game last week.

Carroll also praised the play of Christine Michael and Stephen Williams against the Packers. Carroll said that when general manager John Schneider evaluated the draft class when Williams came out, he was the second-best receiver after the catch.

Leave a comment Comments → 55
  1. I sure hope when Carp comes back he can play for more than a few plays before getting hurt again….and i really want to see what Avril can do, but that isn’t looking like it will happen soon. That sucks

  2. chuck_easton says:

    If Carp can come back and stay healthy I could easily see McQuistain sliding over to RG. Instant improvement on the line.

  3. New posts rolling off quickly. Thanks for the quick updates big E! Can’t repeat my thoughts in a post again. Already kinda did that this morning twice with the post from yesterday, hah. Basically wondered why Sealver Siliga didn’t get much mention.

  4. chuck_easton says:

    Avril is beginning to concern me. Guy comes here looking for the big money and hasn’t been healthy yet.

    As a Vet if he’s on the roster as of next Monday his 2013 contract is guaranteed.

    This just might be the suprise cut of the season.

  5. Just a crazy thought but what if we traded Lynch for a pro bowl guard?

  6. Dukeshire says:

    Lol. That is crazy. No please.

  7. sluggo42 says:

    Avril…. No soup for you!

  8. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, Avril’s base salary is already guaranteed for 2013. There is zero gain to cutting him right now. In fact, his cap number would go up if they had to move the other half of his signing bonus to the 2013 cap from 3.75 mil to 6 mil. Though they may be able to keep it counted towards 2014. There is no reason to cut him and I’d be completely shocked.

    The pass rush is going to be worrisome if neither Avril or Clemons can go early on. Obviously, Irvin is already out through week 4.

  9. bbnate420 says:

    And the majority of Avril’s contract is not guaranteed. That’s his 7 mil base salary for 2014. His whole contract is only 13 mil. He has all the motivation in the world to be on the field if he could. I don’t think it makes any sense to question his motivations here.

  10. raymaines says:

    I’m desperate for glass that’s half full. So the ‘Hawks are going to be totally healthy and at full strength the last quarter of the season and the playoffs, right?

  11. chuck_easton says:


    I just couldn’t find out how much of the 13 million was guaranteed.

    So, we are stuck with him for this year. If he has lingering health issues he can go next year and save 7 million on the cap.

    I just get frustrated when guys get that big payday and then are never healthy (Harvin, Avril, Branch…)

  12. SaigonSun says:

    Avril has never been anything of any value. In Detroit he got some success only because the offenses concentrated ( double-teamed)on Suh(2010-2011), and next year(2011-2012)on Suh and Fairley. When the fraud realized he is not going to fool anyone to give him a fat multi-year contract, he suddenly discovered his infatuation for The Seahawks and took whatever he could to save his face. I wouldn’t be overly surprised if his agent discovered a deal much closer to his mama’s kitchen and now he’s trying to get himself cut from Seattle. I always thought he was a bum and ,frankly nothing surprises me that comes from Avril.
    On the other hand, cutting Winfield will be a tragedy considering all he left on the table in Mini so he can come and play for The Seahawks. This guy has a family and was well established in Minnesota.

  13. grizindabox24 says:

    Neither Avril or Winfield will be released

  14. madpunter88 says:

    This explains why the Seahawks traded Moffitt last week. It was not just a throw-away to get rid of Moffitt but a necessary move to acquire more defensive linemen.

  15. Southendzone says:

    New free agent rule: sign tough guys not lookingfor any excuse to stay off the field.

    Avril can go give Percy a foot massage for all i care.

  16. Eric, Do reporters lick their chops when coaches make a bone headed move like Rex Ryan did this weekend with Matt Sanchez? How much fun is it when you have a hot topic like that?

  17. Are you suggesting Avril & Harvin don’t want to play?

  18. tchristensen says:

    I can’t wait for Avril to make a previous poster eat some crow!

  19. chuck_easton says:

    He is suggesting what several of us are thinking. They got paid. They get their money regardless. They decide to have an owwie that keeps them off the field while giving them more time to count their millions.

    They both had that reputation on their former teams.

    Harvin will take himself out of a game if his hair is messed up. Avril has a history of finding some reason not to practice and then majically gets ‘better’ just in time for Sunday.

    That’s why neither player was offered alot to re-sign with thier old team.

    Seattle just paid top dollar for two Yugo’s.

  20. Of course my previous post about Sanchez should have said Mark not Matt.
    Who’s Matt? lol

  21. With all of SF’s backup quarterback issues I wonder if they might target Quinn once he’s cut? He sure could help them with game planning for Game 2

  22. With Kolb out with a new concussion & EJ Manual still injured ~ Ex Coug Jeff Tuel could end up starting in Buffalo..

  23. chuck_easton says:

    Who says Quinn will definitely be cut? I know it’s a forgone conclusion on here, but for all we know the team has decided to go with 3 QB’s and keep them all.

    If they do go with only 2 QB’s on the active roster, well then Quinn will be odd man out.

    Stranger things have happened.

    Most teams keep three QB’s.

  24. FB Mike Robinson has been called our emergency backup QB. I’d really be surprised if they cut MikeRob, but I was surprised that they traded Moffit. If they keep MikeRob, they could still also keep B.Q., but I’d also be surprised.

    It’s also interesting that SEA hasn’t parted with any RBs (RB = FB & HB). I’d expect any that SEA waives to end up on another team, and the sooner they’re released from SEA, the more chance they have to get on another team and play well. Always thought of PC/JS as player-friendly doing their best for their players, so I’m kinda hopeful we’re keeping MikeRob.

  25. SaigonSun says:

    Tchristiansen, I may eat some crow for Harvin. Never for Avril.
    I’m a Seahawks fan even thou the last time I lived in the NW was in’81( Portland). In my line of business I get to meet many people from all over,including Detroit. My best friend is a hardcore Viqueens fanatic. That is where I get my info on other teems ( not from talking heads or blogs).
    Most of all, I am not scared to voice my opinions here,or anywhere else.

  26. Southendzone says:

    Yep, thanks Chuck for answering for me, you got it exactly right.

    Im saying we picked up 2 high profile and $ FAs who look to me as if they have low motivation and work ethic.

    These guys have built up no goodwill with me as a fan and i dont give them any leeway since theyvr proven NOTHING to the Hawks

  27. grizindabox24 says:

    So being injured is having low motivation and work ethic?

  28. chuck_easton says:

    The team said Harvin could have played the season with his injury. He chose to have the surgery instead. So, he took his 13 million for this season and said thank you very much to the team. That’s 13 million for no work. Poor work ethic.

    Avril has not played a single game for Seattle. Until he does he’s taking money and doing nothing to earn it.

    Give me 7 million and I can sit in the cold tub with the best of them!

  29. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, I believe 5 of the 7 mil of Avril’s base salary for 2014 becomes guaranteed the day after the super bowl, so they’ll have to decide quickly on him.

    griz, some fans just question players work ethic and will if they are injured consistently. Whether it has a basis in reality or not. Just part of the deal. I personally think it’s funny. I’m sure there are players that do that, but it’s funny to me when someone pecking away at a keyboard questions the toughness of an NFL player. I doubt most here have any clue what type of pain they deal with.

  30. grizindabox24 says:

    chuck, the Hawks thinking he could have played with it does not mean the same as he could have played with it. Maybe he could have and maybe not, but I am not going to blame a guy for getting a procedure he feels is in his best interest. I will reserve my judgement on Percy until he is able to get on the field after this. As for Avril, why rush the guy if he is having an issue. I do not see anyone wondering about Sidney not getting on the field during preseason. You may be right, but I am willing to see how things play out first.

  31. chuck_easton says:


    I look at Harvin. Well I would look at him IF he were even around.

    Has he made ONE appearance at VMAC since he left for NY and the surgery? Nope. That’s his history from the Vikes as well. Always went away for his surgery and re-hab.

    The guy was paid all that money, the least he could do is be standing on the sideline being the highest paid cheerleader in Seattle. But no, he takes his millions and goes away.

    The reason Carroll can’t say when or if Harvin will be back this season is because he hasn’t come back to let the team’s medical staff have a look at him.

    Until I actually see Harvin in Seattle either at practice or standing on the sideline for a game, he’s a money stealing low life that took the team for a ride and now is happy counting his money while doing nothing to help the team.

    Let him prove me wrong, and I’ll be more than happy to take that back, but nobody on here can defend a guy that gets paid that kind of money then goes away from the team for several months of rehab on his own.

  32. bbnate420 says:

    Yes, and and Avril has had a number of very good seasons where he was underpaid. Is anyone with Detroit going to reimburse him? No. It’s part of the deal. It’s the NFL. You understand they free agent signing may be injured. You can’t have it both ways.

    And assuming that Harvin has a bad work ethic is just unsubstantiated speculation. In fact, many players have raved about his work ethic. The Hawks’ team doctors are good I’m sure, but that doesn’t mean that they are at the top of their field for hip injuries. The guy Harvin went to is a or maybe THE world renown hip surgeon. He has operated on A-Roid, Chase Utley, and others. He presumably said to have the surgery. But I guess you know better? Here’s his credential should you want to look at them.

  33. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, I’d love you to link some proof for any of that. It was said at the time that he would stay in NY for weeks after for rehab. It’s what’s best. Flying across country would be stupid. Not only because of blood clots but also due to having his hip in a crappy position for hours at a time. Unless PA wanted to send his private plane? You’re not a doctor, so I suggest you not try to play one on the blog. I’m certainly not one either. Dr. Kelly should be overseeing his recover. Not you or I. I thought he didn’t exist anyways?

    I don’t particularly care if Avril misses practice and Harvin rehabs in Nigeria if Avril produces when it counts and Harvin is back as soon as possible.

  34. bbnate420 says:

    Jeez, I need to proof read more.

    “The reason Carroll can’t say when or if Harvin will be back this season is because he hasn’t come back to let the team’s medical staff have a look at him.”

    This isn’t true either. Generally you need at least a few weeks after an orthopedic surgery to get a good idea of a likely timetable for recovery.

  35. And now for a slight interruption of our “kick the gimps” show… PFF has added SEA to their 32 teams in 32 days posts:

    OK, you can now continue wailing about our injured players…

  36. Southendzone says:

    As far as not being able to understand the pain of a hamstring injury, id counter that just about evrryone thats ever done a moderately strenuous sport involving running has a pretty good grasp on what it feels like.

  37. raymaines says:

    I have such a perfect blind faith in JS&PC that it’s hard for me accept they could be fooled by C-Avril and P-Harvin’s talent to excuse a lack of work ethic and/or bad attitude. Sadly, that seems to be the case though. Sometimes doo-doo occurs, but CA&PH seem to have a history of such things.

  38. chuck_easton says:


    Except the report out of NY was that very respected Doctor told Harvin he COULD play the season or he could have the surgery. Harvin chose the surgery.

    So, I am not saying I know more than the surgeon. I’m saying everything that has been reported is Harvin chose to have the surgery now instead of playing the season.

    When is Harvin going to refund the team their money for 2013? Didn’t think that was going to happen.

  39. bbnate420 says:

    I’d love for someone to link some proof of these issues with CA? I found nothing. Sometimes nonsensical gossip just gets repeated.

    southendzone, when did I say anything about a hamstring injury? Not sure who you’re arguing with, but it’s not me. I said most here have no idea what kind of pain most players play with all the time. I referenced no specific injury. If you think that every pain and injury is reported, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Did you play in the NFL or even a major college?

  40. “Until I actually see Harvin in Seattle either at practice or standing on the sideline for a game, he’s a money stealing low life that took the team for a ride and now is happy counting his money while doing nothing to help the team”

    Pretty harsh judgment when you don’t know the guy or how his body is feeling. Pro football players get injured all the time, it’s part of the deal. Making an assumption that he’s faking it or is a low life is pretty easy from our comfy armchairs.

  41. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Harvin was at practice a few weeks back. Not practicing of course, but was there with team. It was mentioned he had spent a week or so in New York and was back in Seattle walking around without a noticeable limp. Not sure if he’s still in Seattle, but he was there not long ago. For what it’s worth.

  42. Avril played 16 games both of the last seasons; and anyone who has played sports knows that with muscle pulls it’s not about the pain tolerance, it’s about making the strain/pull worse by exerting it before it has healed. That’s how you turn a 1-2 week injury into an 8-week injury.

    Kick the gimps is right . . .and it’s not even the regular season.

  43. bbnate420 says:

    Harvin won’t. Nor should he. I’ll call for him to pay it back when the Vikes compensate him appropriately for his contributions from 2009-1012.

    Chuck, what report was this? Feel free to link it. I certainly don’t remember it. Two people know for sure what Harvin was advised by Dr Kelly. And that’s Dr. Kelly and Harvin. Here are some links that don’t support your claim. I know this is what you want to believe, but that doesn’t make it true. You don’t like Harvin. We get it.

  44. bbnate420 says:

    Great posts, pdway. I know we all want all the players out on the field and get disappointed when they’re not, but that doesn’t mean you have to make crazy accusations when they’re not.

  45. chuck_easton says:


    The report was out of ESPN NY which stated that after seeing Dr. Kelly Harvin was told he had a choice to either play the season and have the surgery at the end of the year or have the surgery right away. Harvin chose the surgery. He was not told that he had to have the surgery immediately.

  46. chuck_easton says:


    Since you are a stickler for always providing a source, here ya go:

    “The source said Kelly, who is known to only suggest surgery when necessary, laid out a few scenarios for Harvin. In one of those scenarios, he could return to action in the near future, but need surgery later in the year anyway.”

  47. Harvin is what, 25 or 26? Maybe he wanted to make sure he was healthy before starting this big contract. In his mind, he’s had some health issues, maybe he didn’t want to risk injuring it more and ending the year early…shoot, maybe even ending his career. Nobody knows a thing about what his body is going through, so this is all speculation from an opinion. Do you think he’s looking out for his own health? Yes football players are supposed to be bad ass tough guys, but i can’t be mad at someone for taking care of themselves and making sure they are squared away before starting a new contract. Am i mad he’s not playing the start of the year? Hell yes, we have all seen what he does on the field, and we were all salivating this offseason at the potential of this offense with him in there, but no way am i mad at him for getting his body right.

    Would you rather have him for the first half of the season and go out hurt, or come back half way and play through the playoff push?

  48. chuck_easton says:

    I will believe Harvin is coming back at all in 2013 when he’s actually in the lineup.

    Until then, everything I’ve heard about him from friends and family in Minnesota is we can fully expect Harvin to declare himself not ready at all this year.

    If I’m wrong I’ll be more than willing to eat crow. I have a great recipe for it.

  49. Rockyseahawk says:

    Harvin is in Seattle. Carrol has commented several times abuyt how hard he has been working to get back on the field.

  50. Southendzone says:

    No i never played anywhere, but was discussing CA’S hamstring.

    My point being that a typical out of shape American can probably understand what a hamstring pull feels like.

  51. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, you took that sentence completely out of context. Here’s the quote, for your source mind you, in context.

    “The source who was informed of Harvin’s surgery said the Seahawks’ doctors believed Harvin could play through the injury, though the source said Harvin was experiencing pain even while walking and not just while going through football activities.

    The source said Kelly, who is known to only suggest surgery when necessary, laid out a few scenarios for Harvin. In one of those scenarios, he could return to action in the near future, but need surgery later in the year anyway. In that case, Harvin would have been out through the end of the regular season and perhaps the postseason.

    In the end, a collective decision was made to have surgery now, rather than risk making the injury worse by trying to play through it.”

    It’s just a source anyways and not a fact, but this completely validates what I’ve been saying. Why would you want to risk him being out later in the season and postseason if he could be back by having surgery? And you’re making a huge assumption that he could’ve even played effectively with the injury. You don’t know that. I don’t know that.

    “The source said Harvin will rehab in New York for two weeks before returning to Seattle to continue his rehab.”

    There’s confirmation that it was decided he would rehab in NY for awhile before he even had surgery. Again from your source. It was reported other places as well.

    “The source informed of Harvin’s surgery and condition said he was complaining of hip pain to the Seahawks as early as this spring during organized team activities. Had Harvin undergone surgery at that point, he might have been ready for the start of the season.”

    This is from your source as well. It suggests that the Hawks doctors played this badly. I think you’re letting your previous dislike of Harvin overwhelm your critical thinking skills in this case. Look for truth, not just to justify your preconceived notions. No offense meant. We certainly all are overwhelmed by our own biases at times.

  52. bbnate420 says:

    *from your source

  53. This late to the party but don’t forget, Chuck received that super secret intel from BobbyK about Harvin that he might be basing his judgement on..

  54. wabubba67 says:

    tiny bbs spinning minutae…seems fitting.


    Your version of events is what I also remember at the time of the surgery. However, Harvin came back to Seattle and attended a few practices as soon as he was able…and I believe that he is now working with the Seahawks doctors as part of his rehab.

  55. wabubba, it’s spelled minutiae, you fucking retard. How is what the source he quoted actually said minutiae? Good lord you’re pathetic and retarded. Me and Chuck are fine. We are having a discussion without being a bitch like you. We have before many times, and we will again.

    What did this have to do with you? Why couldn’t you give your opinion without starting off with an unprovoked insult towards me? Still all butt hurt and picking fights nearly a month later. Obvious that you know what I said about you was true. You know it and have to live with it, no matter how much BS bluster you spew on here.

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