Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Unheralded youngsters making plays

Post by Eric Williams on July 30, 2013 at 7:46 am with 194 Comments »
July 30, 2013 7:47 am
Seattle Seahawks' Derrick Coleman in action Monday, June 3, 2013, at an NFL football organized team activity in Renton, Wash. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)
Seattle Seahawks’ Derrick Coleman in action Monday, June 3, 2013, at an NFL football organized team activity in Renton, Wash. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)

Dave Boling of The News Tribune provides some names on the back end of the roster making waves on the first day of camp. They include receivers Jermaine Kearse and Stephen Williams, cornerback Jeremy Lane, tight end Sean McGrath, offensive linemen Michael Bowie and Alvin Bailey, defensive lineman Jaye Howard and running back Derrick Coleman.

Boling: “With top-quality depth at almost every position, it’s going to be hard for some of these guys to stay with the Seahawks. If nothing else, though, the competition is going to keep starters on their toes and make the exhibition games more interesting and relevant.

Stephen Williams, for instance, has stood above some other unknowns, as a 6-foot-5 receiver who has come up with some leaping, acrobatic grabs against a Seahawks secondary group that gives up nothing easy.

Williams had back and Achilles problems while with the Cardinals and was picked up as a free agent by the Seahawks in January.”

Richard Sherman and Percy Harvin review game film with the NFL Network in this video link. It’s pretty entertaining.

Bill Barnwell of Grantland puts Sidney Rice on his all-bad contracts team. I understand the sentiment, but as I’ve said in the past, I think Rice’s numbers will be better if he’s targeted more. Rice works hard, loves to play and gets open against anybody. Barnwell: “Rice had an 83-1,312-8 line with Brett Favre at quarterback in 2009, but was otherwise unimpressive or injured during his time in Minnesota. The Seahawks gave him $18 million guaranteed as part of a five-year, $41 million deal to see if he could repeat that 2009 campaign in Seattle, but he was injured for most of 2011 and produced pedestrian numbers in 2012. He has averaged just 49.3 yards per game as a Seahawks wideout. The good news is that most of his remaining contract is tied up in large base salaries, so Seattle can cut him if desired with only a minor bump of dead money.”

Peter King of Sports Illustrated says that Jesse Williams will definitely have a role in the defensive line rotation for the Seahawks in his postcard from Seattle. Check out the video below.

Evan Silva of Rotoworld is not impressed with Robert Turbin, saying he is not an explosive runner or receiver. I beg to differ, and think Turbin will prove Silva wrong on the field in his second year.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com reminds us that Marshawn Lynch is still pretty good.

Golden Tate gives us a first-hand account of what training camp is like in this video link.

Danny O’Neil of 710 ESPN Seattle ponders if Bruce Irvin can make a successful switch from defensive end to outside linebacker.

Bob Condotta of The Seattle Times takes a closer look at what we’ve learned through the first four days of training camp.

Peter Jackel of RacineSportsZone.com talks to Seahawks defensive back Chris Maragos about his bond with fellow Wisconsin product Russell Wilson.

Pete Prisco of CBS Sports has the Seahawks No. 5 in his power rankings.

Rob Rang of NFLDraftScout.com breaks down the University of Washington’s draftable players.

Scott Bordow of The Arizona Republic reports that Cardinals defensive lineman Darnell Dockett is pleased to be going back to playing a one-gap, defensive tackle in a 4-3 instead of a two-gap defensive end in a 3-4. He also had this to say about media types writing that he may be slowing down at the age of 32: “It’s you guys (the media) that try to put out what you think can or can’t happen. Me, I’m always going to believe in myself. … Everybody in this locker room knows me and knows what I bring to the game. They won’t be surprised. You all will be surprised writing all the stories and (expletive-deleted). I don’t pay that (expletive-deleted) no attention.

“Guys in the locker room, we really don’t care about your opinions or what you write good or bad. You all hate us one minute and love us the next. I know how all this (expletive-deleted) goes. At the end of the day you all will be more surprised at what I do than the guys I go to work with every day.”

New England Patriots defensive tackle Vince Wilfork teaches us how to talk Boston in the video below.

Categories:
Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 194
  1. yankinta says:

    Pete Prisco is 2nd DUMBEST after Skip Bayless….imo. He said Andrew Luck is Wayyy ahead of RW,,and already made Luck a HOF…..

  2. yankinta says:

    I agree with Evan Silva on his assessment of Robert Turbin. I was not impressed by Turbin’s Rookie Season. I’m very glad Christine Michael on our Team. I believe the steals of this 2013 draft will be after 2-3 years will be,,

    1. Christine Michael
    2. Luke Willson
    3. Jordan Hill

  3. Turbin did exceedingly well as a rookie, showing speed and power, and the ability to catch passes on the run, as well as that rarest of qualities, the willingness to block. While he certainly has room to improve, he was a total steal in the fourth round, and could start for most of the teams in the league.

    He’s still learning the intricacies of the ZBS, but at the end of the year was showing tremendous growth. Remember, it took Lynch two seasons to get the ZBS down.

    We are damned lucky to have Turbin and Michaels, not to mention Coleman and Ware. And of course Mike Rob is a fine FB.

  4. yankinta says:

    STTBM, I guess we have different definitions of “doing exceedingly well as a rookie”…. :)

    For me, he did just okay but he was not overwhelming enough for me to think that he will be the future after Beast Mode.

  5. RDPoulsbo says:

    Given all the depth, I wonder if Pete is thinking of sending some back end guys toward Philly for some draft picks. Chip Kelly has his guys dropping like flies. Let them have Kearse for a 7th. He won’t miss a beat filling in for Maclin’s dropped balls.

  6. “I agree with Evan Silva on his assessment of Robert Turbin. I was not impressed by Turbin’s Rookie Season.”

    Robert Turbin not explosive? Not impressive to you at all as a rookie playing behind one of the top 5 RB’s in the league? What are you on? Seriously.

  7. yankinta says:

    Sekolah, sounds like you’re new to Football, so let me explain. He carried the football four times on third-and-short plays (two yards or fewer), and executed just once for the first down. He also didn’t break tackles or make good yardage after contact. He dropped passes in Big Moments in Big Games (go watch when we played at 49ers)…..

    I’m saying he did okay as a rookie but he wasn’t that impressive (like a steal from 4th round),, imo.

  8. yankinta says:

    RDPoulsbo, getting a 7th for Kearse would be a steal for us but I highly doubt it. :) I do see getting a 4th to 6th round pick for Maxwell, if he plays well in the preseason….

  9. montanamike2 says:

    I have to disagree too. Turbin was a steal as were most of our players taken by this FO, i saw him rip off to many quick gains to call him a bust. He’ll learn the ZB system and is already feeling some heat, he reported to camp in great shape and will show up this season.
    I can’t believe our prior weaknesses are now areas where it hurts to have to cut someone because of depth.

  10. chuck_easton says:

    Sekolah,

    You can’t challenge the expert football knowledge of the Yankster! Watch and learn… :)

    Sorry, things are going too smoothly around here. It’s time to stir the pot a little.

    Yankinta has his opinions. He’s just a little more forceful in the way he presents them.

    If we all agreed and had the very same opinions about each and every player, this would become one boring place to visit.

  11. CDHawkFan says:

    Agree with Yanker, when Turbin had the ball in his hands I was expecting to see a more bruising back. With his size/frame I thought he would be a guy that would run through more tackles or truck a few guys, but I don’t recall that happening much last year. If anything I saw a guy that would anticipate being tackled and aid the tackler by giving up his position by diving/leaning for an extra 1/2 yard. I would rather him take on the guy/pile like ML.

  12. montanamike2 says:

    I saw him drop a few ill timed passes but he seemed quite effective as change of pace.

  13. yankinta says:

    chuck_easton, thank you. That’s all I’m saying. lol…. but you see that he started this right?? I was only expressing my opinion about Turbin…. :)

  14. montanamike2 says:

    Coach will make the final decision in the end but isn’t it great to be so loaded with talent at this position.

  15. “Sekolah, sounds like you’re new to Football, so let me explain. He carried the football four times on third-and-short plays (two yards or fewer), and executed just once for the first down. He also didn’t break tackles or make good yardage after contact. He dropped passes in Big Moments in Big Games (go watch when we played at 49ers)”

    Pfffttt! it sounds to me like your opinion is really not your own. It sounds to me like you really don’t even know what it is you disapprove of about Turbin, but because he’s ahead of the guy you favor on the depth chart (Michael), you suddenly see damning flaws in his game based off of a mere 80 carries during his first year in the league.

    “Dropped passes in big moments”? There’s one pass I can think of that was a big drop in a big moment, but not multiple drops. It was the first game against S.F. when he dropped what likely would have been a TD, on a swing pass, when he absolutely had Pat Willis beaten with an explosive move.

    When was the other one? I know you aren’t trying to pin the INT Russ threw that was intended for Turbin in the game at the Clink.

  16. yankinta says:

    lol, so I’m copying other peoples’ opinion??? lol, you just made me spit out my coffee onto my keyboard!! Thanks a lot!!!

    I seriously doubt that I’m copying other people’s opinion because not many people share my opinion, evidently…. especially on this blog…. lol

  17. seahawkNJ says:

    Loved the Boling article. I’d be curious if Dave or Eric have any view of which of the under the radar guys could make the 53 man roster, and see significant playing time. I’ve been hearing William’s name a lot lately and wonder what his real odds are?

  18. tchristensen says:

    Perhaps you devalue Turbin because you’re comparing him to Marshawn Lynch.

  19. trout_hound says:

    I thought Turbin did great last year, but I agree, he is not the best at changing direction. As much as I like him, I think CM is our future at RB. That said, CM will need to be able to consistently protect RW3 on third down to take Turbin’s job. I see him playing Leon’s role, and the more he rips off big runs spelling them, the more carries he’ll get. I love MikeRob, but if Ware is the real deal, I worry about his roster spot. He is so smart, can catch, and lays the wood when he blocks, but he’s not the flashiest runner around. Maybe they’ll keep all five. I can’t wait for pre-season to see those what those rooks can do.

  20. KFFL reports the Hawks have signed FA CB Terrance Parks (Florida ST.) to a Deal today. I do not know who got released to make room for him.

  21. “I seriously doubt that I’m copying other people’s opinion because not many people share my opinion, evidently.”

    Come on, man. You practically word for word recited one of Silva’s criticisms about Turbin – the minutia related to his short yardage stats, which is practically laughable.

    Few posters share your opinions because a lot of the time they come straight out of left field.

    Robert Turbin is a RB who had a very solid rookie year. He cranked out 354 yards of rushing on just 80 carries for a 4.4 YPC, but I guess that’s not good enough because he didn’t truck enough would-be tacklers. He also at times proved to be something this team has lacked for years – a reliable 3rd down RB with real receiving skills and abilities as a pass blocker. He needs some polish, but his future looks exceedingly bright to me.

  22. yankinta says:

    Sekolah,, lol yes, I did say that I agreed with his assessment, in my very first post…. wow, just because I’m too lazy to type, in order to explain it to you, doesn’t mean I copied his opinion…. sorry, sometimes it’s easier to copy and paste, especially to respond to those that are new to Football……

  23. Dukeshire says:

    Turbin was drafted to be a complimentary back to Lynch, not his eventual replacement. So in that regard, I too would agree he did exceedingly well. If one’s expectations of Turbin are that he is Lynch in waiting, then they will be disappointed (as a result of unreasonable and ill-placed expectation of what he was brought in to do).

  24. chuck_easton says:

    For every Seahawk fan who thinks their evaluation of players is better and more accurate then everyone else I give the WISDOM FOR TODAY:

    “Those people that think they know everything really annoy those of us that actually do know everything”

    Guilty as chagred here!

    MOFFITT IS BETTER THAN SWEEZY!!!! (Can’t lose…if Moffitt gets the starting job I look golden. If Sweezy gets it team wins and I just have to say I was wrong. :) )

  25. I think Turbin did fine in his rookie year. I remember more of these, especially catching out og the backfield then any blunders he had.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6UmX-6m0s8

  26. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire,, yup I had imagined/hoped him to be eventual replacement, which is why I as said he’s not the future,, imo, based on what I saw last season. Which is why I thought he did okay but not exceedingly well.

    I don’t think it’s unreasonable or ill-placed expectations…. our FO picks STEALS in the later rounds all the time. Why wouldn’t we expect Turbin to be a Steal as well??

  27. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    cracks me up to hear people bad mouth turbin. even lynch struggled in this system initially. this system requires a little adjustment in running style. did any of you ever try something new and be a little tentative to begin with? lynch was. funny thing is turbin seams to be adjusting well and improved through out the season. once he quits thinking and just starts reacting i think you will see a huge difference.
    yankinta, michael has to A. prove he can stay healthy.B keep his attitude in check. c.play some football. he may be a better back than turbin but that is yet to be shown in game play. he could get hurt in first preseason game and be done for the year. this is kind of like calling any second year QB a future HOF player. i think in the end we could very well end up with turbin and micheal as a one two punch when lynch is gone. again thou that is yet to be seen.

    i am more excited to see how this plays out with the receivers in all honesty. the idea of a fast 6’5 going up for jump balls sounds great.
    it will be interesting to see who makes this stacked team.

    also i could see kearse going for as high as a 5th if,( and this is a big if), he can have a couple really big preseason games. i see the jets maybe being interested in 2-3 of our guys late in preseason.
    it’s no lie that our 3-4 depth guys could start on some teams.

  28. “KFFL reports the Hawks have signed FA CB Terrance Parks (Florida ST.) to a Deal today.”

    Great size at 6’2 and 215 lbs.. but why another DB? His profile at Florida St. says he played safety.

  29. Anyone who has concerns about Turbin needs to go back and watch the Atlanta playoff game. Sherman Smith loves this dude. Christine Michael needs to put some work in before we make him the next great back in the league.

  30. RDPoulsbo says:

    From Silva:
    “Although their running styles are somewhat similar, Turbin served as Marshawn Lynch’s change-of-pace back…”
    “For a 220-pound power back…”

    An here lies the problem with Silva and many other people’s analysis of Turbin. People see the biceps and immediately label him a power back. That’s never been his style. He’s always been much more of a slasher type, which makes him a good fit for ZBS when he finds the cutback lanes. Even Silva goes on to acknowledge that he excels in that type of running or catching out of the backfield. That’s what he does best, not power up the middle in short yardage situations.

  31. rramstad says:

    I can hold both thoughts in my mind simultaneously.

    Turbin had a great rookie season, and has a lot of potential for growth.

    That said, Turbin is most likely not the future feature back of this team.

    (It seems likely that Michael is our future feature back. Turbin may end up playing fullback, if he stays with the Seahawks. Just guessing.)

  32. yankinta says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma, am I bad mouthing Turbin, when I say I think he did okay as a Rookie but not exceedingly well? Lol, talk about high expectations….. :)

    Yes, I’m not saying Michael will be but I hope him to be the eventual replacement.

    Yes, I’m saying RW will be HOF. Mark my word!!! :)

    Pete Prisco on the other hand is saying another Rookie that played against the Easiest Schedule, and had 30 interceptions (Adjust Int), will be HOF. That’s why I said that dude is Dumb.

    Would love to trade Kearse for a 5th!!…. but not hopeful though… :)

  33. rramstad says:

    I would also agree with other assessments of possible draft picks. There are many teams in the league that would gladly give up a sixth or seventh to get a high quality player that we might otherwise cut… if you aren’t in a good spot on the waiver wire, you know they aren’t falling to you. It’s pretty easy to justify this too by the way, if you are getting some guy that we used a fifth on two years ago, with a sixth or seventh in 2014.

  34. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Not sure if this has already been posted.

    Training camp calendar-

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ufsw71tfnklm1yv/2013_SEA_TC_Calendar.pdf

  35. Trublu, thanks for a link. “Not very explosive” my effing eye! Lack of CoD skills? Doesn’t run through contact? Can’t break tackles? Sorry, not seeing it. Bottom line: Turbin is a young and exciting player to watch, and he’s only getting better as he gets more familiar with this offense and the league in general.

  36. chuck_easton says:

    Yankinta,

    When you can show this site an actual paycheck with your name on it and lots of zeros before the decimal point that you have received for giving your written football knowledge I will defer to your statement that Prisco is a know nothing hack.

    Until then he’s the one getting PAID to have an opinion.

    While I rarely, ok almost never, agree with anything Prisco has to say about Seattle (and he makes no secret of his dislike for all things Seahawks) I have to admit, he’s the one with the big bank account that is filled with money from checks he’s cashed for his football journalism.

  37. sluggo42 says:

    Ya, yanker, I think you got the short end of that discussion with Sekola… Just sayin…

    Turbin other than that one big drop had a great year for a rookie in a tough system, and he improved as the year progressed.

    Do you devalue him because you like CM? I think Turbo,is great, but I also think CM is the feature back of the future, and turbo will still be doing the same thing he is doing now. But really well.

    Our RB situation is as solid as one could ever hope for. And with the line solidifying, we should get to really enjoy all of our backs this year and on.

  38. Before Eric chimed in, I was also going to say that I thought Turbin was tremendous in the Atlanta game. He really made huge, timely plays.

  39. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    yakinta, 1. pete prisco ia an idiot on all counts 2. wilson may very well
    end up in the HOF if… he plays at the second half of last years numbers for many years wins a superbowl or two. that is a lot of ifs.
    or how about he doesnt get hurt, his play doesn’t drop off from him over thinking,oh he doesn’t get hurt. he played great for a half a year
    although i beleave in him doesn’t mean he will be great long term.

    again on turbin 4.4 yards a carry for a change of pace back is a very good number for a rookie. he was far from just ok and like wilson seemed to improve weekly

  40. Nothing like a pissing match amidst my fellow Hawk fans to start off the day. We’re all right AND wrong. Who cares?

    Turbin wasn’t a disappointment nor was he spectacular. Lynch has had huge fumbles at the most inopportune times, but more than makes up for it elsewhere.

    None of us are going to be a pro GM or coach anytime soon, so why waste your breath on trying to prove who is right or wrong.

    Kumbaya my friends. At the end of the day, we’re all in this together.

    GO HAWKS!

  41. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Turbin is a fine backup who can block and receive exceptionally well.

    Some good tidbits in here-
    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/104327/camp-confidential-seattle-seahawks-3#comments

  42. chuck_easton says:

    joreb,

    It’s easy. I’m right and your wrong. :)

    There, now that this has been settled let’s get back to debating which of our 15 or so WR’s is going to be the 6th, 7th or 8th WR on the depth chart and whether or not Thomas should/should not have cut his dreads.

    There are important things that must be discussed!

    After all, we have absolutely ZERO say in who’s actually going to make the final roster come the first week of September.

  43. Dukeshire says:

    yank- It is when Carroll outright said , he was a compliment not a replacement

  44. WiscCory says:

    The play that sticks in my mind with Turbin was the drop in SF up the sideline. IT could’ve changed that low scoring game. Mo Morris would’ve pulled that in.

    Regardless, we have to look beyond that play, and note the Atlanta game as Eric mentioned.
    ___________________________

    Here is an unconfirmed transcript from Harvin’s 2nd opinion appointment today.

    Dr. Bryan Kelly: “Hi Percival, Did the receptionist collect your $25 co-pay? How can I assist you today?”

    Harvin: “Well, my hip is a little sore becuase I’ve been running NFL caliber pass patterns over the past few months. My primary care physician told me my sore hip was nothing signifigant, and gave me the green light to practice.”

    Kelly: “So, what’s the issue?”

    Harvin: “I need a note from the doctor to be excused from practice thru September 1, while I sit at home and count my money.”

    Kelly: “I’m not sure how ethical that is, so don’t think I can help.”

    Harvin: “Can these 500 friends of mine named Grant influence that?”

    Kelly: “Oh, I’m sorry, I misunderstood your situation. Here is a letter, and can I set you up with A-Rod’s nutritionalist?”

    Harvin: “Nah, we have our our nutriionalists available to us on the west coast, when needed. Thanks, doc.”

    Kelly: “You’re welcome. Is there room on the Seahawks bandwagon for me this season?”

    Harvin: “Welcome aboard!”

  45. yankinta says:

    sluggo42, I don’t think I’m devaluing him. I’m just saying he wasn’t spectacular, like I hoped he’d be. But I understand that he was a rookie and had limited opportunities. I’m not closing the book on him at all! I still hope he will show us he can be the feature back for us, this year…. but based on what I saw last year, I think a lot us will agree he wasn’t spectacular,, :)

    chuck_easton, so just because Pete Prisco can make money writing articles about Football, we have to bow down and agree with everything he says?? lol, c’mon man. God gave us all brains and eyes to see and form opinions for ourselves…. We don’t have to believe and agree just cuz someone is getting paid for his opinions….. we are better than that…. :)

  46. “None of us are going to be a pro GM or coach anytime soon, so why waste your breath on trying to prove who is right or wrong.”

    Look, it’s not a matter of who’s wrong or who’s right, or the smartest supposedly is. I come here to be entertained by intelligent, thought provoking football talk. Yes, we’ve all got opinions and sometimes they conflict. All I can ask is for people to put a little more backbone into their opinions instead of just blurting out “Oh, yeah, ‘so-and-so’ sucks because I don’t like the way he runs”!

    If you think a certain player lacks and you have damning opinions of that player then at least know exactly why and what it is about that player that either underwhelms or frustrates you, because the guy on the depth chart that’s behind the guy you’d rather see in front isn’t a very sound argument without some facts to back it up. Know how to defend your NFL and Seahawks related opinions, people or I will rip your opinions to pieces when it suits me.

  47. “After all, we have absolutely ZERO say in who’s actually going to make the final roster come the first week of September.”

    I’m pretty sure JS/PC read this blog on a daily basis.

  48. yankinta says:

    lol @ OrrObb’s post… why do you think I come here sometimes to post, other than to influence the FO…. :)

  49. RDPoulsbo says:

    We all know Eric Williams is just Sherman Smith’s pseudonym. That patch of photoshopped chin hair doesn’t fool anyone. :P

  50. montanamike2 says:

    Good one WiscCory.
    First and foremost we have Beastmode!

  51. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    Nothing like a pissing match amidst my fellow Hawk fans to start off the day. We’re all right AND wrong. Who cares?

    joreb, this would be the absolutely most boring blog in the world without a few pissing matches. after all this is what makes the debates begin.

    duke, do you really beleave what pete says ? turbin may very well not be lynch’s replacement but he very well could end up being just that. so could micheal thou as well. lynch is one back injury from being done in this league. or dui from a 4 game suspension.

    to everyone that thinks turbin was ok/not spectacular think on this.
    when have the hawks had a change of pace back that could a. have 80 carries for a 4.4 average b. pass block c.catch 88% of passes thrown his way? answer i couldn’t find one not one ever. that in my book makes him pretty spectacular. i can’t believe someone even brought morris into this conversation. he was a crappy back with one of the best OL ever.

  52. Those who are dissing Turbin do so because he isnt the kind of back they thought he was. While a big back, he’s not thick in the legs and is more of a slasher/quick back than a bruiser cut out for short yardage. He was brought in to complement Lynch, not take over for him.

    Seahawks staff have been very vocal about their happiness with Turbin, and his position coach was very clear that Michael has a lot to learn, and a lot to prove, before he takes any playing time away from Turbin.

    He excels at third down situations, though he hasnt been great in short yardage. If you really want to analyze and judge those third and short carries, go back and watch them and tell me what a fine job the line did blocking…I will bet they didnt get it done. Still, he’s not gonna pick up third and short or fourth and short like Mike Rob or Lynch, but that doesnt mean he isnt a fine back.

    And thats why we got Michael. We’ll need two good backs with slightly different styles when Lynch inevitably slows down, and Turbin could conceivably leave when his contract is up for the opportunity to start elsewhere.

    Michael has incredible talent and potential, but he’s a punk and doesnt know jack about our offense or pass blocking….he’s not gonna see the field much this year as a RB barring injuries because he isnt ready. And Turbin is a better NFL player than him right now.

    Yeah, I think Michael has a better chance of being a bell-cow back than Turbin, at least for us. But Turbin is good at everything except short-yardage, and that may change this year.

    Chuck–It isnt that Yankster is more forceful with his opinions, its that he insults everyone who disagrees with his every opinion by flat out accusing them of not knowing much about football. Total douche move. And he’s in High School, which makes it funnier.

  53. WiscCory says:

    hawkfanOK – I mentioned Morris as a guy that would catch the ball. That’s all. Wasn’t saying he’s better than Turbo. Was glad to see MoMo go, however we shouldn’t diss him.

  54. ljarllrajl says:

    Turbin not explosive? I had to log in just to laugh. 4.4 yds per rush, 9.5 yds per reception. Just numbers but he passes the eyeball test too…at least for anyone who actually watched him develop.

  55. Love that video of Sherman and Harvin watching film together. We need more of that. Great stuff.

  56. Man, I loved MoMo.

  57. yankinta says:

    STTBM, I never throw the first punch…. you and Chuck can bow down to the guys getting paid for their articles and believe everything they say…. I choose to use my brian and my eyes… don’t hate.. :)

  58. Turbin and Michael BOTH bring something special to the offense. Michael is still unproven, but the dude is FAST and very tough. Turbin is also fast and probably underrated as a receiver, where he might make his biggest contributions this year. Neither of them is Lynch, but even Marshawn won’t be able run with that high level physicality for too many more years.

    Is there another team that is as good 3-deep at RB? A year ago, I would have said that Marshawn Lynch going down injured would be the end of the Seahawks season. No longer can that be said. That’s what the drafting of Michael was all about.

  59. wazzulander says:

    I’m glad Eric chimed in with Sherman Smith’s take, obviously that holds a lot of weight (but also should come with a grain of salt) – and reports have been great on Turbin so far this off-season. But I do see where yankinta is coming from though saying he was just ok. You want to see a few explosive plays from a RB that make you say wow and give you reason to project him as a game changer. The only “wow” play I remember from Turbin was the SF drop. I don’t think he was any better than Forsett.

  60. wazzulander says:

    Stevos – the whiners go 3 deep no problem with Hunter and James. They also have Lattimore waiting in the wings.

  61. doubledink says:

    chuck,
    btw, ET should have cut his dreads…

  62. doubledink says:

    Wazz,
    Turbo’s drop in SF still sticks in everyone’s craw, but it doesn’t remove his improvement as the season progressed and the decent production he provided.

  63. bbnate420 says:

    “Sekolah, sounds like you’re new to Football, so let me explain.”

    Yanker, these kinds of statements are exactly why a lot of people here don’t like you or think you’re arrogant and condescending, Yanker/ACIB. He did ask you what you were on though, so you could claim that he attacked you first. There are certainly times where you talk like this without being provoked though. I do agree with you that Prisco is an effing moron. There, that’s at least twice we have agreed.

    STTBM, I think it’s an exaggeration to say that Turbin could start for most NFL teams. And I like him as a player, but 17 players rushed for 1,000 or more yards last year. A few that didn’t due to injury were the likes of Trent Richardson, LeSean McCoy, and Willis McGahee. Reggie Bush was 14 yards under. Darren McFadden didn’t either. I didn’t follow him enough to know if it was injuries, a crappy o-line, poor play from himself, or likely some combination of the 3.

    I’d also disagree that it took Beast Mode 2 years to adjust to the ZBS. While there was certainly some growing pains, especially since he didn’t start for the Hawks until week 6 in 2010, I think the lack of a quality o-line was the primary problem.

  64. yankinta says:

    Like I said, I never throw the first punch. I wrote that comment at 8:43 AM. Go back and read what he wrote at 8:36 AM. :)

  65. Yankster–I see no evidence that you use your brain and eyes. Neither Chuck nor myself have said anything that would lead anyone to think we arent forming our own opinions and simply “believing” what professional writers say. To say that we are is insulting. Par for the course for you though…

    Dont you have homework you should be doing?!

  66. bbnate420 says:

    “Those people that think they know everything really annoy those of us that actually do know everything”

    How true, Chuck. It’s not as easy as you might think being right all the time. ;-)

    “None of us are going to be a pro GM or coach anytime soon, so why waste your breath on trying to prove who is right or wrong.”

    Debating opposing views is one of the main reasons there are blogs.

    I also agree with the couple of people that assume Turb should be a power back because he is 5’10” and 222, but they don’t know what they’re talking about and probably have hardly watched him play. He is a slasher. He has pretty good agility and speed. He is no Beast Mode. Breaking tackles comes more from power in your lower body. Turb is a bit top heavy with those giant guns. Beast runs through tackles because he has powerful legs and runs with a wide base that gives him excellent balance.

  67. bbnate–Several Hawks coaches and players said that Lynch really “got” the ZBS after his second season as a Hawk. He improved steadily, but it was the last half of his second year and the start of his third here where he really showed elite understanding of the scheme and his responsibilities in it. Thats all Im saying.

    To me, Lynch has improved every game since he got here, and I thought his effort was incredible his first few games with us, though stats wont show just how special his play was. But he missed a lot of big opportunities making the wrong cut or misreading an assignment (like Turbin in the first few games last year). Now he doesnt do that.

  68. bbnate420 says:

    *that said that people assume

  69. bbnate–Based on what Ive seen from Turbin, I think he could easily be a 1,000 yard back for many teams. He is from a power-run blocking scheme, but is learning the ZBS too, so he could potentially fit almost anywhere. Whether he’s better than most of the starting RB’s in football is a judgement call, and I think he could be.

    He’s a good blocker, catches the ball very well, is fast and can make people miss, and has good power, though he isnt a bruiser like Lynch. He is a guy who could potentially be a three-down back. I bet the Pats would love to have him.

  70. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, I don’t disagree that Lynch has gotten better at running in the ZBS every year. I was just saying that his lack of production in 2010 and the first half of 2011 was more a product of a crappy o-line in 2010 and an extremely young o-line the first half of 2011.

  71. Yeah, nate, Turbin has kinda thin legs, and seems almost top-heavy. He doesnt run like the typical 220 lb back, thats for sure. And while its a little frustrating that he hasnt bulled through for the short yardage stuff, he’s faster than Lynch and I expect to see him start busting some more explosive runs.

    As it is, he had some really nice 10-20 yard runs out of not much last year, which to me is plenty explosive. Now that the line seems to be jelling, hopefully he busts a few 40+ yarders…

    And believe it or not, I hope to see Michael get some reps in the regular season too. I think that kid can be seriously explosive if he keeps his head on straight and learns the offense. His highlight reel was ridiculous.

  72. yankinta says:

    STTBM, at least I don’t agree with most media hype and share my own opinions. Tell me something that you have an opinion about,, that is totally off the grain,,, I seriously doubt that you have one. Prove it.

    He’s a few of my opinions for examples,, read and learn,, lol :)

    1. RW is the real deal and will be our Future, I said that from DAY ONE…
    2. If Matt Flynn is traded, we will get 2nd or 3rd round pick in trade value. (I was wrong on that one, only because I didn’t forsee that we would need to trade him to extend Kam)….
    3. Luck will never be a top 10 QB in the NFL. He will be top 15th at best.

    I seriously doubt you bring anything new to the table other than insults and childish name calling….but I still wish you well. :)

  73. bbnate–I agree that Lynch’s production the first year and a half was mostly due to lousy O-line. But his understanding of the intricacies of the ZBS has also helped him become the total stud that he now is, production-wise (He was always a total stud here, its just that now the stats show it).

  74. bbnate420 says:

    The Pats have Steven Ridley, who was very good last year. He doesn’t catch the ball at all though. I have no idea about his run blocking.

    I think that Turb is capable of running for 1,000+ yards if starting and healthy. He is a well rounded back. I just don’t know that I couldn’t name 16 RBs that I would take over him to start.

  75. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    yankinta you throw the first punch with your”watch and learn i know everything” BS and you do tend to plagiarize a lot.

    nate, if you take turbin and give him 250 carries and give hime 3xs the catches he is at 1450-1500 all purpose yards with over a 1000 rushing.
    thats not work-horsing him just a good amount of pounding the rock.

    betting a lot of teams would love a back that could do that plus pass pro.

    this just in harvin does not need surgery! woot woot

  76. bbnate420 says:

    Yanker, so you never insulted anyone first while you posted as ACIB here? Before you got embarrassed right out of your handle that is.

    Your continued insistence that you said that RW was the real deal from day one without any evidence to support it is transparent and laughable. You overcompensate too much me thinks. You have the same grammar, syntax, and style as ACIB had. You’re not fooling me.

  77. yankster–Insults and childish namecalling?! Thats rich coming from you, man. And its not an insult if its true.

    1) Youre certainly not the only one around here who was on the RW bandwagon early. I was one of the ones who supported him, once I actually watched some tape of his college play. And there were many others before you. I know, Ive been a TNT junkie for years.

    2)You were wrong because you overvalued Flynn, and NFL teams didnt.

    3) We will have to wait and see on that one.

    And you know the saying, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile?

    As for my opinions going against the grain, ask anyone here or read my comments a little more closely. Ive been severely ridiculed for years because my opinions do not usually fit with the crowd.

    I decided Ruskell was a disaster and was sandbagging Holmy over a year before it was revealed that the dysfunctional atmosphere he created and his huge ego was the major reason he was fired. I dont believe Rice is an elite WR nor is he worth his salary, though I dont think he’s junk. I thought it sucked when Carrol fired Hass, and I still think it was a bad decision, though I get the logic behind it. I was against Seattle trading for Lynch, and I think Earl Thomas, while a great coverage FS and usually a fine tackler, missed way too many tackles and is a total liability in run support.

    Take your pick, much of my opinions and analysis goes against the grain, and its kinda obvious I dont follow a crowd or base my opinions on those espoused by the media. But you can believe what you want to believe…yanksterWorld must be a real interesting place…

  78. bbnate420 says:

    hawkfan, where did you see that about Harvin? You can’t just simply extrapolate Turb’s stats out like that. It doesn’t necessarily work that way. I think he is capable of those numbers. I like him as a back. I’m not trying to criticize him. One of my points was that he gets undue criticism because he doesn’t fill the expectation of him when people simply see he’s 222 lbs but don’t actually watch him play.

    P.S. Any Sonics fans should remember when they tried to extrapolate out Jim Mcllvaine’s numbers from limited minutes and signed him to a big contract. Didn’t quite work out that way.

  79. yankinta says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma,, I never said I know everything…. lol. In fact, I said repeatedly that I always appreciate Facts Based Education from my fellow Seahawks Fans……

    But I can’t stand people that bow down to some talking heads,, and insults those of us that form our own opinions and make predictions based on what we learn, while using our own brains…. :)

  80. bbnate–Whaaat?! ME, exaggerate?! Nah, Ive never been guilty of thaat? :p

  81. ” lack of production in 2010 and the first half of 2011 was more a product of a crappy o-line in 2010 and an extremely young o-line the first half of 2011″

    That’s easy to agree with, bbnate.

    I’d go as far to say that 90% of what was wrong with the Seahawks from 2008, 2009, 2010, and early 2011 was an offensive line that was at first aging, then full of injured players, then transitioning to a new scheme, then transitioning through new coaches, transitioning to young inexperienced players, growing those players up, and is now finally maturing.

    And, perhaps 90% of what was wrong with the Seahawks throughout those years descended from the troubles with the O line —
    (including why Hasselbeck declined, why Alexander declined, why Holmgren’s final seasons were failures, why Mora was a failure, why Ruskell’s teams failed and why Carroll was hired, why Gibbs was hired, why Cable was hired, why TJack struggled, and – as you said – why Marshawn Lynch took a while to start producing.)

    Someone said the other day – and I believe it is true – that crappy quarterbacks have won super bowls, yet a crappy offensive line with turn a team to crap, top-to-bottom.

  82. yankinta says:

    STTBM,, nah,, I never throw the first punch. It’s true that i have not been on TNT that long… only a couple of years… so I may not have read those comments/opinions wrote by you. Do you have any recent??

    Yes, I watched RW college games as well as Luck’s last year games (all of them).

    I remember the first time I was attacked and called names by a bunch of us.. it was before last year’s training camp right after the rookie camp, when I said we need to trade Matt Flynn Now,,,cuz RW is the real deal…. people went crazy and called me names,, lol. it was worth it cuz now those people are eating crows but of course they’d never admit it. :)

  83. HonHawksLSB says:

    Turbin got knocked out at the 1 twice against ATL. He is a beast and will take a major step forward this year.

    Any word on Harvin’s 2nd opinion?

  84. The idea of one running back carrying the load as a starting RB is getting to be an outdated idea in the NFL. With the exception of a few workhorse RBs, teams now are moving toward a “RB by committee” approach that includes specialists for third down, change of pace, and short yardage. The Seahawks are tooling up to follow this trend.

    If Marshawn can carry the load 20+ carries a game, they’ll use him that way. Once he can’t do that anymore, they’ll be ready to succeed with RB-by-committee. Michael and Turbin both can play big roles.

  85. yankster–I just listed several of my recent unpopular opinions–and one that shows why Im not an NFL talent evaluator: I didnt want to trade for Lynch, because he was in trouble too often and I was irritated he got out of his pedestrian-hitting incident with a slap on the wrist. Of course, I was immediately thrilled by his play in his first game–the hardest 44 yards Ive ever seen a back gain, because he had the worst O-line blocking Ive ever seen! And he’s kept his nose mostly clean and become the heart and soul of our team.

    Perhaps with your short attention span you’ve just scanned my tome-like comments, and thats why you havent noticed my unpopular opinions. You wouldnt be alone in that, Im sure.

    When you label anyone and everyone whose opinion differs from yours as being a copy-cat or someone who doesnt form their own opinions, thats an unprovoked insult. But you know that. Youre rude, and you get some sort of thrill out of it.

  86. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    inside training camp breaking news nate.

    nate i am aware that what i did is simplifying he could do a little worse or a little better i was diving an example that with more carries he could easily maintain that average. 4.4 x250 1100 yards,4.2=1050.
    my belief right or wrong is that he is a 4 yard+ per carry back. not flashy nothing fancy just a very good all around back. i am just happy we have him lynch gets hurt or suspended

  87. bbnate420 says:

    Look at this exchange. It’s funny and more evidence that Yanker is ACIB. He mentions not knowing who ACIB is without anyone even mentioning it.

    Southendzone, “Breer of NFL network is reporting the conditions on the 2015 pick as:

    Less than 8 games played in 2014 = no pick
    Over 8 games played in 2014 = 6th round pick
    NFL MVP of 2014 = 4th round pick
    If Yakinta admits he was wrong about Flynn’s trade value for the last 2 months: 3 first round picks and a $5M cash settlement to the Hawks.”

    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2013/04/02/morning-links-flynn-getting-paid-like-presumptive-starter-in-oakland/#more-17183#storylink=cpy

    Yanker, “Southendzone, lol I need to see the link to believe it. I think they have a secret hand shake deal that we’ll somehow get their 2nd round pick, maybe in 2017….”

    Yanker the very next comment, “lol, I still don’t know who this ACIB is. But he sounds dreamy….”

  88. chuck_easton says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma,

    Can’t find that anywhere, but hoping beyond belief you are right.

  89. SandpointHawk says:

    When Lynch got zone blocking…

    And that is another story within this story. It started when Lynch went to Tom Cable and told the team’s first-year assistant head coach/offensive line coach that he wanted to learn how to run in Cable’s battle-tested system.

    “We made a deal – you have to do it the way I tell you to do it, I ask you to do it,” Cable said. “And he’s done it. So a lot of credit, to me, goes to him because he was willing to kind of maybe push his ego or push own beliefs, to some extent, aside and then embrace something new.

    “Because this is a system that asks backs to do things a certain way. Once you get in and through the line of scrimmage, then do your thing. You can do all the craziness you want then. But you’ve got to do it this way from A to B. And he bought in from A to B. And after that, what you do from C on is you.”…

    http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/Finding-his-fit/43d63f69-b34c-4aaf-af55-9cf406e78656

  90. Dukeshire says:

    They needed to trade Flynn to extend Kam? That is one of the more myopic statements posted on this blog in months. Too bad it wasn’t followed with one of those ridiculously childish smiley faces. That way I would at least know your weren’t serious.

  91. yankinta says:

    STTBM,, lol, no, Duke and I or GeorgiaHawk and I respectfully disagree with each other all the time but other classless people like to call me names and throw insults,, so that I figure, as long as I’m defending myself,… :)

  92. Nate, He still hasn’t denied being ACIB.

  93. Hey Duke, watch the criticism of the smiley faces! ;-)

  94. yankinta says:

    lol, yes. Dukeshire,, Remember?? JS said on the 710ESPN radio, his primary goal was to extend his own guys, this off season but he didn’t forsee many FA taking discounts to come play with us…. That’s why they spend so much money in the FA that he didn’t have enough to extend Kam, after the FA was over…. therefore,, I figured he had to trade Flynn to create cap space,, because they already said before FA that they don’t have to a need to trade Flynn.

    But I’m happy with the results from the Free Agency, so I’ll take the bad with the good. but of course that’s just my own opinion. :)

  95. SandpointHawk – that’s good stuff from Tom Cable!

    Here’s some more…

    Q: Why is it that Marshawn Lynch seems made for this system.

    “He is willing to to what we need him to do. There are a lot of great runners in this league, and a lot of them say ‘this is how I got here, this is how I do it”, and that’s true, you’re here, but to be a pro and to be great, can you evolve and grow? I think Marshawn has absolutely jumped on that thought and wants to take it higher than its ever been done here. To me that’s it; its willingness.”

    Q: What is the biggest difference in this team since [last year]?

    Cable: “We can get you down and beat on you now. We have depth at running back, with Turbin starting to show his thing. And we have stability at quarterback and the skill positions, and I think that’s the biggest difference.”

  96. Sandpoint–Thanks for the link, I couldnt remember where I heard that.

    While I do hope Harvin wont need surgery, it still is likely to impact his performance negatively, and could lead to other injuries–overcompensation of the sore hip, etc…which sucks.

    Too much money for a little guy, but whatever…as long as he can contribute, we’ll be all good. The money only matters as it might make other players jealous and eats up cap space.

  97. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chuck they came on said second opinion states surgery is not necessary although he could chose to have it. now if he has surgery when it is not required i will be pissed.

  98. The Seahawks had cap space without trading Flynn. Of course, more cap space was good to have, but they weren’t up against the cap and forced to trade Flynn.

    Schneider was un-doing a mistake he made in over-paying Flynn back in the days when the Seahawks were desperate for QBs. Fortunately, those days didn’t last long. He was smart to trade Flynn before Flynn had to play too much and potentially show himself as a pretty average QB.

  99. bbnate420 says:

    Yanker, how about this exchange? You clearly insult me first. At the same time as your saying a couple of different ridiculous and incorrect things.

    Yanker, “JS/PC couldn’t hold out for better value since we needed the cap to extend KJ and CC’s contracts….

    bbnate, “yankster, still waiting for you to admit you were wrong. Tick tock. And do you mean Chris Clemons when you mentioned CC? They’re not extending Clemons’ contract. Your supposed 90% history of being right is going to take another hit if you do think that. And there’s more important players than KJ that need to be dealt with. I’m not saying they won’t keep him, but they don’t need to worry about him yet really. At least Sherm, ET, RW, and Okung are all way more important.”

    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2013/04/01/official-qb-matt-flynn-traded-to-raiders/#comments#storylink=cpy

    Yanker, “bbnate420, again our NFL knowledge is on a different level. Sherms, RW, ET and Okung don’t need to be extended this season, for different reasons. I’ll give you 3 guess on the reasons. :)

    No, not Chris Clemons, I’m talking about the Strong Safety, smh….

    lol, yes I was wrong and I did already admit it. go read my previous posts… :)”

    bbnate, “Well the SS is KAM CHANCELLOR, not CC you idiot. So yes, our football knowledge is at a different level. You have next to none.

    KJ Wright is signed through 2014. Same as ET and Sherm. Sherm can renegotiate after 2013. RW can renegotiate after 2014. Okung is signed through 2015, but I doubt they want to wait until he’s a FA. They are all more important players than KJ Wright. Chancellor’s contract is the only one that is up after 2013.

    You are really arrogant for someone that doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I honestly have to question whether or not you’re literate. Keep serving up the softballs, idiot.”

    There’s actual proof of you insulting me before I insulted you, proving you to be a liar again. You have yet to post a link to backup any of your claims about RW.

  100. yankinta says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma, what I heard was, Havin will take tonight to think about which path he wants to take. My money is on not opting for surgery…..

  101. Dukeshire says:

    Stevo is right. Seattle had the space to extend Kam without dealing Flynn. Flynn’s trade has no direct correlation to Kam’s extension. Schneider said in March they were working with Kam, indicating an extension was nearly complete (although not signed until April). Flynn was traded after those comments. Of course there was no reason to keep Flynn’s contract on the books with Wilson solidifying the starting position. But to say they needed to trade Flynn to sign Kam is again, myopic (and I could argue incorrect).

  102. chuck_easton says:

    That is my concern about Harvin.

    While this may be simply a holdover from his fractured relationship with the Vikings FO I have concerns when a player is 1) told by the team doctor he doesn’t need surgery 2) chooses to get a second opinion anyway 3) is told by a hip specialist that he can play without the surgery and 4) still has to ‘meet with his people to decide what he wants to do’.

    Harvin’s MO in Minnesota was to not listen to any medical advice from the Vikes, to go have his own doctors handle his re-hab, and to not even do his re-hab at team facilities.

    I would not at all be suprised to hear later tonight or early tomorrow that Harvin has decided ‘that although he COULD play without having the surgery, he has decided to have it anyway…’ and we are without him for most/all of 2013.

    I hope to all the football gods that I am completely off on this one, but my gut, the hairs on the back of my neck, and my spidey senses are all telling me that we will be hearing my scenario within the next 24 hours.

  103. WiscCory says:

    Apparently Rice is in Europe today for a non-surgical knee treatment. Similar to what Urlacher did last year:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/22/brian-urlacher-wont-talk-about-alternative-therapy-for-knee/

    Apparently won’t miss time, though.

  104. Hawkfan, Who is “They” ?

    (chuck they came on said second opinion states surgery is not necessary although he could chose to have it. now if he has surgery when it is not required i will be pissed)

  105. chuck – let’s hope it doesn’t play out that way. We’re all hoping.

    And, to be fair, if I were going to a brand-new doctor who worked for my employer and we were talking about potential surgery, I would go get a second opinion from a specialist I knew and trusted. Harvin hasn’t done anything wrong or unusual yet.

  106. bbnate420 says:

    It still amazes me that fans think they have a right to know players’ personal medical information and make treatment choices for them. He has to live with the damage he does to his body. Not us. He has at least 11 million guaranteed reasons to want to play this year even if you believe he just cares about the money.

    Now, if you want to argue that the Hawks should’ve known that he will put his long term health first and shouldn’t have traded for him that’s a different discussion.

    I don’t get why using your own doctors that aren’t biased and paid by the team is a problem?

  107. Adding my two cents that Turbin was a very solid contributor, gave the Hawks exactly what they wanted/hoped for as a back-up to a top-5 running back. And an unexpectedly solid receiver (see ATL game as others have mentioned). Excellent value for a 4th round pick.

    @chuck — I think i’m more the optimist than you, but your last post re Harvin is kind of persuasive. S–t.

  108. WiscCory says:

    Rice procedure (I grabbed from a Chicagoist article):

    The procedure begins with the removal of a small cup of blood from a patient, which is then incubated at a slightly elevated temperature. (The goal is to give the blood a fever.) The liquid is then spun in a centrifuge until it’s separated into its constituent parts. The heavy red blood cells accumulate in the bottom layer, a layer of crimson crud at the bottom of the plastic tube. The relevant fluid is the middle yellowish layer — it looks like viscous urine — which is dense with agents that, at least in theory, can accelerate the natural healing mechanisms of the body. “The inflammatory response is normally part of the recovery process,” says Chris Renna, one of the only American doctors administering Regenokine. “But sometimes the body can’t turn the inflammation off, and that’s when you get chronic pain and arthritic degeneration. The goal of Regenokine is to stop that response so your body can begin getting better.”

  109. I never throw the first punch…. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  110. chuck_easton says:

    bbnate,

    The problem I have with this is Harvin gets that 11 million (and next year’s 11 million) whether he ever wears the team’s game day uniform or not.

    He has no incentive to play through anything. He can have the surgery, sit out the year, cash his $647,058.83 per game check and not have to do anything for it.

    Again, it goes back to the Deion Branch situation. You give the guy the big guranteed payday and then suddenly there is ‘injury’ after ‘injury’ and we as fans and the Seahawks as a team never get our money’s worth out of the deal.

    I know I’m not a professional football player and just a garden varity lawyer, but if someone is going to give me 11 million dollars to do something my personal moral code tells me that ‘come hell or high water’ I am going to what was agreed to.

    If Harvin has indeed been told he can play through the injury but he chooses to have the surgery anyway, then HELL YES I have a problem with him.

  111. Claiming that you were an early Russell Wilson believer is not really going out on a limb as far as forming an opinion. Guys like Jon Gruden were beating his drum on RW from day 1. Besides, I’m pretty sure I was the first one on the RW bandwagon. Here’s a post of mine from a few years ago (and, yes, I acknowledge I missed on the Rick Mirer prediction):

    “OrrObb
    OCTOBER 12, 1993 AT 6:23 PM
    Guys, I know Mirer is tearing it up, and is only going to get better as he matures. We can finally say we have a replacement for Kreig. With that said, we’ll need another franchise quarterback after Mirer retires. I was just out at Maymont Park in Richmond Virginia earlier today and saw this little four-year-old kid throwing the football around with his dad and older brother. The kid was really slinging it, and ultra competitive out there. Smart little guy too! A little short for a four-year-old (almost five, he told me), but I think he has a real future. Kid’s name is Russell Wilson. I told him if he works hard, he could play in the NFL some day. I told him, “Always remember, the separation is in the preparation.” This kid seems like a hard worker and, just maybe, he’ll be a Seahawk some day. After Mirer leads us to a few Super Bowls, I say we draft this Wilson kid and really establish a dynasty!”

  112. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    mocarob, they are inside training camp on nfl network

  113. Ask Darrell Jackson, Lofa Tatupu, Carpenter, Deion Branch, and all the other Seahawks who rushed back from knee injuries, only to re-injure them and/or ruin them how they feel about taking care of number one…I vet every one of them wishes they hadnt toughed it out, and instead been careful and conservative when deciding when to return to play.

    With Jackson, its clear to me that rushing back from his knee injury led to the chronic knee problems he had later. There was talk along those lines for several years in print–and Im convinced it robbed him of several productive years.

    That sort of thing happens all the time, so I really cant blame guys like Harvin who may choose to play it safe. There is tremendous pressure on the coaches, FO, and players to win now–which puts tremendous pressure on players to play through injuries and risk doing more serious damage.

    Still, Harvin has his rep for being a prima donna and unwilling to play through pain for a reason, though I do think he’s been bashed unfairly for the migraines; he played and practiced through them even when they were so bad he puked on the practice field. Thats plenty tough.

    I will wait and see before I judge Harvin too harshly, but I hope he can play close to 100%.

  114. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire, okay then, what was our Cap numbers if we didn’t trade Flynn, before we extended Kam?? What would it be today if we didn’t trade Flynn? Since you sound pretty sure.

    Based on what I learned, our Cap numbers would be at a point where we would no have any flexibility to make moves the rest of the Offseason,, if we didn’t trade Flynn and extended Kam…. show me otherwise,,,

  115. OrrObb–HAHAHAHA! You crack me up dude! Heh, I thought Mirer was gonna be great too, after his rookie year. I remember telling my family that he couldnt throw the ball further than 30 yards accurately though, as I had watched him in college, and that was likely to hurt him in the NFL…

  116. yankinta says:

    of course, Stevo too,, please give me Fact based education about our Cap situation in regards to Matt Flynn’s trade and Kam extension, not to mention all the other moves (rookie signings and stuff) we made.

  117. WiscCory says:

    OrrObb – that’s 2 funny posts in 1 day. Well done.

    Are you able to pull up my post from 1997 that pleaded for Jon Kitna to be moved in as starter? I’m certain that posting is what changed Dennis Erickson’s mind.

  118. Jesuss H Kriyist, Rice has more injuries than DJ Hackett! SHoulder, head, hip, ankle, now knee….bleah!

  119. bbnate420 says:

    Yanker/ACIB, you claimed that they couldn’t wait any longer to trade Flynn because they needed the money to extend Kam. Simply not true. They had space. That doesn’t mean they couldn’t have traded Flynn later in the off-season to still get the room for future years or moves that may be needed later in 2013. Why do you think anyone should link or backup their opinion to you when you refuse to do the same? Still waiting for those RW posts.

  120. yankinta says:

    LOL, all against one. That’s just how I like it. :)

  121. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, very good post about Harvin.

    Chuck, I am talking about the 11 million that becomes guaranteed if he’s on the team past the 5th day of the new league year. He already got 14.5 mil guaranteed regardless. Don’t you think his decision here will weight on whether or not PC/JS choose to keep him or not?

    And how is he not doing what was agreed to in his contract? He didn’t sign a contract that waived his rights to determine his own medical treatment. I doubt his contract says he has to listen to whatever the team doctors say.

    I think people here conflate CAN play with it as meaning that playing with it won’t adversely affect his health. There’s a reason you have inflammation and pain. Inflammation helps the healing process and pain is your body telling you to stop because you’re causing damage. These are generalizations. Inflammation is not always good.

  122. chuck_easton says:

    STTBM,

    And yet he played all 16 games last season and was at the first 4 training camp practices.

    I’m of two different minds.

    Until I see Rice NOT on the field I expect him to be there starting against Carolina.

    Until I actually see Harvin ON the field in a Seahawk uniform I don’t hold out any illusions that I will be seeing this for quite some time.

  123. chuck_easton says:

    bbnate,

    I coach football and my son plays high school football.

    We have a saying as coaches “ARE YOU INJURED OR JUST HURT?”

    You can play hurt. You shouldn’t play injured.

    If two separate doctors have told Harvin that he can play this season without causing further damage and he chooses to have the surgery anyway I will be bashing him from here to eternity.

    Now if Harvin comes back at the end of his contract and says “well, since I got paid for 2013 and didn’t play a single snap at practice or in a game, why don’t I give you another year for free?” all will be forgiven. But I’m not holding my breath.

  124. bbnate420 says:

    Yanker/ACIB, when you are clearly wrong and don’t know what you’re talking about then it’s harder to get other people to agree with you. Especially since you constantly, arrogantly tell everyone here how much more vast your football knowledge is. Have you figured out that Kam spells his name with a K yet?

    Still waiting for you to back up your claims.

  125. rramstad says:

    yankinta, really, nothing personal, but I gotta say that I don’t enjoy this blog descending into you demanding people provide proof of various things, and then you not providing any proof yourself. It’s really a giant waste of space.

    I come here for Seahawks news, not for middle school quality drama slap fights.

    Now, all that said, it’s totally revisionist history to claim that we HAD to trade Flynn to create cap space. Hell, we just handed Browner money, just gave it to him, because we wanted to. This team is not hard up against the cap, and won’t be this year. We have tons of guys who are still on their rookie deal and are starters… most of them can’t even be extended!

  126. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, you’re falsely assuming that he won’t cause any more damage. The doctors are saying that he can play with treatment without likely making the tear bad enough that he will require surgery during the year. That doesn’t mean he isn’t causing long term damage. That doesn’t mean he isn’t greatly increasing his risk of osteoarthritis. It’s your right to criticize him, but it’s his right to choose his medical treatment. Not yours.

    I’m well aware of the culture in football that pressures people to play through pain/injuries. The difference between pain and an injury is not black and white. Players used to play through getting “dinged” or their bell rung all the time. Likely still do. That’s part of the problem with the concussions in football. That’s why former players are walking wounded.

  127. yankinta says:

    rramstad, Eric loves me though…. The activity of this blog goes sky high, as soon as I make a comment…. The threads that I’m a part of usually have at least 100 comments if not over 200,,…. without me, he gets about 25 to 35 comments… :) lol…

  128. chuck_easton says:

    bbnate,

    Not talking concussions here. That is strictly a no go for all coaches. If there is even the slightest indication that there could be a head injury during the game the player is immediately out. Our league also has a policy that until the player has successfully completed the ‘free to play’ program with a registered sports clinic we have then they can’t even come to practice.

    I agree with you that if Harvin has been told he can play by ‘managing’ the severity but he will still need surgery ‘at some point’ well then I may not like his call but it is his to make.

    Now if both doctors have told him surgery isn’t necessary and the injury can be dealt with through rest and then physio but he chooses to have the surgery anyway I’m not so good with that.

  129. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Yep, it’s all cause of you. The rest of of amateurs and those new to football really look forward to your vast football knowledge. I feel sorry for your keyboard.

  130. chuck – You have always been a respectable blogger and you asked the other day my take on Harvin. If you want to know, just shoot me an e-mail (I live just over an hour from Mankato where the Vikings train and can tell you a few things that aren’t public that I’ve heard of from, IMO, trustworthy sources). bobbyk03@hotmail.com

  131. chuck_easton says:

    Thank you Bobby,

    I will take you up on that. I can’t help this nagging feeling I have and I either want it confirmed or I would like it exercised from my conscious.

  132. I have ZERO problem with a player – any player, any sport – getting a 2nd opinion. In fact, I think they are smart to do that on many issues. I am not worked up YET.

    Now if the original AND the 2nd say the surgery is not needed, and they choose to have it anyway there should be some consequence. i.e. a lower salary for the year, less guaranteed money, or the team should be allowed to put them on a Non- football related injury list or something.

    lets just wait to see what the USS Harvin decides to do

  133. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, if it were simply about taking pain then I’d agree with you. Playing through pain in areas of joints will almost undoubtedly lead to more long term damage and increased risk of osteoarthritis. You may think that’s the price of being in the NFL. Harvin doesn’t have to agree. You don’t have to agree with that, but he’s the one that has to live with it. It’s easier to tell someone else to play through pain and disable their bodies.

    A big portion of the nonsurgical treatment approach here is activity modification. It’s a whole different thing to take powerful anti-inflammatories and pain killers so that you can continue running into 250+ lbs men at full speed. If you had this injury, I would bet every dime I have that your doctor wouldn’t be telling you to go out and play football anytime soon.

    http://www.methodistorthopedics.com/labral-tears-of-the-hip

    Look at the portion on nonsurgical treatment.

  134. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    if you are a player and think you are going to play this game without osteoarthritis a factor in your life later on you are smoking crack. you can not beat you body up take all those hits and not anticipate paying for it later on. my guess is even if he has surgery he is back in time for play off run in december if not i say you cut your loses learn a lesson and move on. if the doctors say he can play football thru the season without surgery then he needs to show up to work period. you don’t get paid to have surgeries that are not deemed necessary, you get paid to play ball. that said if the docs said he is risking his future and has a chance of an injury that ends his career then yes have the surgery.

  135. MattandCindy says:

    Good god. 7th grade girls locker room up in here.
    “I have the prettiest purse!”
    “Nuh-uh, it’s ugly, like your face. My purse is the hottest!”
    “Shut up! I know fashion, and this is fashion.”
    “Oh my god, you don’t know ANYTHING. I have a Prada bag.”
    “Shut up, b**ch!”
    “You shut up. YOU started it!”
    “Ladies, stop it…we all know I AM THE HOTTEST N-E-WAY.”

    I’ll go get some Motrin. Be back in a few.

  136. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, and I was referencing more than concussions when talking about the culture of football. I was just using it as one example. I am aware that the culture has changed a lot in this area. I would bet that many pros still try to hide these symptoms though. Especially if they’re a lower tier player fighting to make a team and feed their families. Young people think they’re invincible.

    Also, I was wondering what the healthcare is like in your part of the Great White North. Not looking for a political debate or long answer, just whether you think it’s mostly good or not. Thanks.

  137. SandpointHawk says:

    OrrObb…Great post, but that’s the past…Who you got for us in 2025?

  138. bbnate420 says:

    hawkfan, players almost certainly will have osteoarthritis due to playing to some degree. Studies, maybe it was just one that I saw, suggested that 90 % of players that play at least 3 years in the NFL are permanently disabled in some way. That is admittedly vague. Harvin will likely have osteoarthritis throughout his body regardless of what he does here. I just don’t think he has to knowingly make it worse by playing through a known injury. Selfishly I hope he does play with it. A labrum tear is an injury. It’s not just pain caused by a hematoma or inflammation not linked to an injury.

  139. bbnate420 says:

    MattandCindy, yeah, it’s very reminiscent of the exchanges between you and Georgia and I forget who else the other day.

  140. doubledink says:

    Don’t feed the trolls.

    Yanker, don’t be a wanker.

  141. doubledink says:

    OrrObb,
    That made me choke. Well done.

  142. chuck_easton says:

    Bbnate,

    On the whole I find healthcare much better in Canada than I did in the States.

    Yes there can be a long wait time for elective oe non emergency surgeries but it’s not like you are going to have to wait for urgent or emergency surgery.

    Canada is better on the preventative side. If my son hurts himself in one of his activities we can go to the local walkin rather than going to emerg. He’s seen within a couple of hours at most ( more urgent go to the front of the Queue) and if he needs a cast, a brace or a splint it is done right there.

    Best part is no bill afterwards.

  143. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    nate what i am saying and i think you are if the docs say surgery can wait till end of season or is not really necessary in this case he needs to suit up. my point nate is if 2 doctors including the one of his choice say he can play he needs to put on his big boy pants like kam and play

  144. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chuck if that is the case why are all the border hospitals full of canadian cars?

  145. bbnate420 says:

    Thanks, Chuck.

    hawkfan, no, I’m not necessarily saying that. If it was just a matter of pain then I would say he needs to play. Selfishly I want him out there to help the Hawks win. But he ultimately has to make his own healthcare decisions. As we all can, at least if you have the money in America. You or anyone else is free to feel he is a pussy or whatever else though if he doesn’t choose to play through it. I would just mention that it’s easier to tell someone else to do something difficult, altruistic, or debilitating than to do it yourself.

  146. bbnate420 says:

    Sorry, Chuck. That last hawkfan post was what I wasn’t fishing for.

    Hawfan, don’t always believe the hype. Some Canadians do come here for elective surgeries if they have the money. Chuck mentioned the elective surgeries.

  147. MattandCindy says:

    bbnate420
    July 30, 2013 at 2:53 pm
    MattandCindy, yeah, it’s very reminiscent of the exchanges between you and Georgia and I forget who else the other day.

    Really? Do you have so little happening that your quoting things said on blogs by other people a few days ago? Put that into something else but this.

  148. bbnate420 says:

    BTW, I currently am working at a hospital approx. 100 miles from the Canadian border and used to work at one approx. 70 miles from the Canadian border and neither was full of Canadian patients. Few and far between.

  149. MattandCindy says:

    Oh. Your Canadian.

  150. bbnate420 says:

    “Really? Do you have so little happening that your quoting things said on blogs by other people a few days ago? Put that into something else but this.”

    First of all, I didn’t quote anything that you said. I referred to it. Secondly, do you have so little happening that you have to respond to someone doing this? I just pointed out that you were being a hypocrite. We all are sometimes.

    You should consider going to the VA and talking to someone about your anger management/PTSD rather than barking at me.

  151. MattandCindy says:

    Wow. You should choose your jokes more carefully. VA? PTSD??? You think that’s funny?

  152. bbnate420 says:

    When did I say I’m Canadian? So what if I was? Did you know that there are two sides to every border? And it’s you’re, not your. I don’t own Canadian. Maybe you should stop now before you show yourself to be an even bigger fool than you already have?

  153. bbnate420 says:

    It wasn’t a joke. I was dead serious.

  154. bbnate420 says:

    I wasn’t saying I was better than you because you may have anger management issues. I do myself, though I have gotten a lot better. I also have a few friends that came back from the service with anger issues.

  155. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Funny after all the calm in the last few days this blog suddenly goes wild! Lol.
    No offense but it looks to me like Cindy is doing the posting today.

    BTW- Chuck if you really want some inside info about Wilson let me know. My girlfriends son in-law played baseball against him. I will send you my e-mail. Top secret of course.

  156. SandpointHawk says:

    Deep breath everyone…

  157. bbnate420 says:

    Georgia, it’s because Yanker/ACIB makes this blog go.

  158. Dukeshire says:

    yankinta – That isn’t what you said. Any moves v. the one single move you mentioned are very different things, indeed. Perhaps you mispoke, which is fine. But in the event you did not, my point stands: your view is myopic.

  159. MattandCindy says:

    You REALLY need to find something better to do than this, is what I’m saying. You want to say it’s you’re, not your…..and a post before that you say, I don’t own Canadian? Don’t be a hypocrite, right? And don’t say that to anyone who has served. If you work at a hospital in Canadian, you should know that.

    And you post ALL day, EVERY day. I have to make time. Hopefully nobody has died while you were pounding away at your I-Phone…..that’s an example of a joke in poor taste.

  160. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I know nate.
    Believe me I know how to get this blog rolling myself. I’m just trying to control myself better these days. Lol.

  161. GeorgiaHawk says:

    It’s kind of refreshing to see some younger posters Duke it out for a change.(No offense Dukeshire).

  162. bbnate420 says:

    MattandCindy, did you lose every brain cell you have in the service or were you brain dead before you went in? I can hardly understand your intended point with your lack of literacy. You’re one of the worst examples of a jarhead. Again, I didn’t make a joke. Half your posts are spent attacking someone. Telling people to shut their dong holsters if you don’t like what they post. Try to get it down to like 10 % or so like myself. ;-)

    BTW, I hadn’t posted in 2-3 days before today. So that kind of disputes your hypothesis about posting every day. Only real losers have to try and brag and build themselves up to anonymous people on the net. I’m sure you’re plenty busy all day. Those burgers aren’t going to flip themselves. You want fries with that?

    Too bad you’re too effing stupid to probably process any of this. I didn’t make a joke about anyone dying. Learn to read. I didn’t even make a joke. I guess it’d okay for you to tell people to shut their dong holsters but then flip out on someone because you take their comment the wrong way due to your IQ of 75?

  163. rramstad says:

    Wow. Just wow.

    In my very limited experience, I don’t see many Canadians in the Blaine, Bellingham, Ferndale area, looking for medical treatment, elective or otherwise.

    I am a dual citizen and spent a lot of time driving between Ferndale and Aldergrove.

    Now, things might have changed, that was some time ago, but my Canadian relatives indicate what you’d think… for the average person, the Canadian health care system does just fine. You might have to wait a while for non critical stuff, but they are very very good at preventative care, and home care.

    My Canadian grandfather has had an absolutely astounding amount of medical care, all things considered i.e his age, weight, medical history, recurring problems. I have a feeling in the US he would have gone to hospice quite some time ago, honestly.

  164. MattandCindy says:

    See? Who is the petty, pathetic moron? Nice post, dipsh*t.

  165. bbnate420 says:

    “You want to say it’s you’re, not your…..and a post before that you say, I don’t own Canadian?”

    Again, you total lack of literacy fails you. I said them both in the same post. I said, ” And it’s you’re, not your. I don’t own Canadian.” I was trying to explain that YOU’RE means YOU ARE and YOUR denotes possession. Too bad your 75 IQ couldn’t decipher it.

  166. MattandCindy says:

    But Canadian isn’t a place. CANADA is. If my IQ is 75, then YOURS is 74.

  167. bbnate420 says:

    Have a nice life, Matt. You’re not even worth the time and effort to respond to. Try looking in the mirror for once.

  168. MattandCindy says:

    And I’m done. Your a petty little bigot with 5 user names, and I don’t have the patience for it.

  169. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “And you post ALL day, EVERY day. I have to make time.”

    Cindy- No offense but if you have the time to see someone else posting all day, every day then you have the time to do it yourself.

  170. bbnate420 says:

    “Oh. Your Canadian.”

    That’s what YOU said. I said I don’t own Canadian, which is what you suggested with your illiterate statement. That’s why I said you should use you’re for YOU ARE! Good lord. If IQ points were nickels, you’d have enough for a stick of gum.

  171. MattandCindy says:

    But I don’t post, I read. And this is Matt. And why are you getting involved?

  172. GeorgiaHawk says:

    5 user names? Nate, I thought you only had three? What are the other two?

    Don’t say it. Don’t say it. Could it be that we have finally found out who the Yankster/Acid really is?

    Say it isn’t so nate. Please say it isn’t so.

  173. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I thought you were done Cindy?

  174. MattandCindy says:

    Oh, it is so.

  175. MattandCindy says:

    Should I not talk to you? Because I’m done with 420 boy and his un-American sentiment. But if that is your lil’ buddy, then I’ll stop talking to you as well.

  176. bbnate420 says:

    Georgia, lol. I guess reading the posts makes you a real winner but posting makes you a loser? What’s funny is I really don’t have to say anything. He does a great job of embarrassing himself and showing what an idiot he is all on his own.

    Just to be clear, as I told you before, I used to post under natedog years ago. Then my account got all effed up for some reason. I then created my current account. I have never posted under 2 or more handles simultaneously. I’ve made an ass of myself often enough on my handle. Why would I do that if I had other handles?

  177. MattandCindy says:

    Because your a moron with too much time.

  178. MattandCindy says:

    “I thought you were done.”
    Ha, beat you, dopehead.

  179. bbnate420 says:

    Georgia, don’t you remember that you’re supposed to keep your dong holster shut unless Cindy mentions you directly? ;-)

    What did I say that was “un-American”, corky? There’s no such thing since we have the 1st amendment.

  180. MattandCindy says:

    WE? You’re CANADIAN!!!
    Right?????
    73 and dropping fast.

  181. bbnate420 says:

    Again, it’s YOU’RE. LOL. Have Matt help you out, Cindy.

  182. bbnate420 says:

    No, I’m not Canadian. Never said I was. I said I work by the Canadian border. You’re just too stupid to realize that borders have something on both sides of them. Do you mix up Cindy’s holes as well?

  183. MattandCindy says:

    Now I get it. The dope has you like 5 seconds behind the world.

  184. MattandCindy says:

    I’m sorry, addiction is a disease in Canadia, too. I think.

  185. GeorgiaHawk says:

    OK Time out!

    I’m just having fun here. No offense to bbnate420 or MattandCindy. You both (or all three) are quick witted but very lacking of beer right now so chill a bit.

    Try to at least stay focused on 80% Seahawks stuff, and perhaps find some common ground.

    I know, easier said than done. Lol.

  186. MattandCindy says:

    I’ll be the bigger fan, I mean man, and stop.

  187. bbnate420 says:

    The dope? LOL. I’d have to smash myself in the head with a ball peen hammer 30 or 40 times to be behind you. Anyone with a brain can read this exchange and tell who is the less intelligent one. Enjoy flipping those burgers and living your fantastic life.

  188. MattandCindy says:

    Yes, they will. Once again, 5 seconds behind.

  189. bbnate420 says:

    Georgia, don’t you have to have some wits to be quick witted?

  190. bbnate420 says:

    I thought Cindy was going to be the bigger man? And I have a good comeback for that, but I’ll choose to let it go.

  191. sluggo42 says:

    Ok, I came up with ACID for acib, then I was one of the first, if not the first to realize the yankster was acid. So,
    From now on, I propose we all reply to “him” as:
    Yancid….

    Bnate, I remember the CC/Kam topic from last year. That was funny.

    Mork and mindy! Dude! Chill

    I wonder if the Seahawks ( remember them everyone?) offense and defense are getting this chippy with each other yet?

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