Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Five things to watch for at training camp

Post by Eric Williams on July 24, 2013 at 7:08 am with 113 Comments »
July 24, 2013 7:08 am
Seattle defensive end Bruce Irvin chases down Buffalo quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick during the first half of an NFL football game on Saturday, Dec. 15, 2012, in Toronto. (AP Photo/Todd Parmington)
Seattle defensive end Bruce Irvin chases down Buffalo quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick during the first half of an NFL football game on Saturday, Dec. 15, 2012, in Toronto. (AP Photo/Todd Parmington)

Tim Booth of The Associated Press previews the Seattle Seahawks training camp by providing five things to watch for when camp begins on Thursday.

Booth lists the continued development of Russell Wilson, Seattle’s elite secondary, pass rush, PED issues and dealing with high expectations his Top 5 things to keep an eye on in 2013.

Booth: “They aren’t just plucky upstarts with little regard on a national scale. These Seahawks begin camp knowing they are a popular choice not just to win the NFC West, but to reach the Super Bowl.

Carroll basked in the glow of such expectations when he was at USC and the Trojans were the dominant power in college football. But this is Seattle, where expectations are usually met with disappointment. And with a team that relies so much on youth, the Seahawks will have to watch from becoming overwhelmed by the attention.”

I talk with KJR’s Ian Furness and Jason Puckett about the top story lines heading into Seattle’s training camp this week in this audio link.

John McGrath of The News Tribune believes a Pro Bowl in August could generate even more interest in the game. There’s no way NFL players are giving up the annual trip to Hawaii for a weekend in Canton, Ohio.

ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that former Seattle defensive tackle Rocky Bernard will visit Detroit today.

Danny O’Neil, writing for The Sporting News, picks Seattle to win the NFC West.

Rivers McCown writing for ESPN Insider places the Seahawks atop his list of the teams with the best talent under 25 years old. San Francisco is No. 2. You must be an ESPN Insider to view this.

Gary Horton of Scouts Inc rates Seattle the No. 3 organization in the league at developing players. San Francisco is No. 1, and Green Bay is No. 2. You must be an ESPN Insider to view this.

ESPN’s Mike Sando rates tight end Zach Miller as Seattle’s most indispensable player.

Vinnie Iyer of the Sporting News ponders what the impact of Percy Harvin will be on Seattle’s offense.

Mike Tanier writing for Sports on Earth places the Seahawks No. 11 on his training camp excitement rankings.

Paul Bessire of CBS Sports predicts sacks and sack rates will skyrocket in 2013 as teams continue to pass more.

David Epstein of Sports Illustrated offers an informative story on the next step in possible HGH testing in the NFL.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 113
  1. SandpointHawk says:

    Early morning post. I’m in heaven, thanks Eric…

  2. bbnate420 says:

    Wow, I didn’t even realize Rocky was still playing.

  3. bbnate420 says:

    Not to get totally back into this, but I just want to at least highlight a couple of passages from the HGH story.

    ” and that the lone, randomized study that looked at HGH specifically for speed enhancement found a real benefit in using it.”

    The optimum word here is LONE. One study, no matter how good it is, doesn’t provide substantial evidence of something. The data has to be reproduced at LEAST once. And HGH in high enough levels could be a PED, I’m just saying that it doesn’t have significant evidence behind it yet.

    “From conversations with athletes, doctors, and steroid dealers over the last few years, I’m convinced that athletes rarely use HGH alone, and that anywhere HGH is used, testosterone is used more.”

    This is very important. I have thought this was true myself, but it was speculation. This still isn’t definitive proof of a link between HGH and testosterone use, but it highlights an issue. You can’t test someone to see if using elevated levels of HGH are performance enhancing unless you know they aren’t taking additional testosterone. Taking high levels of testosterone HAS been shown to build muscle when someone trains and to naturally be a performance enhancer. You need elevated HGH to hopefully be the lone variable.

    “The London Olympics last summer marked the first use of a new HGH test called the biomarker test. This looks for telltale increases in particular blood markers that show up after HGH injection. The biomarker test does not pick up doping within the previous two days, but the detection window extends back beyond that for at least a week, so it has the potential to be much more effective than the isoform test. In addition, the biomarker test has been in development since 1996, and the research process has produced mounds of peer-reviewed scientific literature, so it is not subject to the kind of legal challenges that the isoform test is.”

    If this is true, this would be a good test to administer even if I’m not convinced that it is a PED yet. Players don’t need to take HGH outside of under a doctor’s care at least. There is some evidence, though not conclusive, that HGH does help your tissues to heal after an injury. I don’t get why people would be against that? People loved it when AP and Jamaal Charles came back 100 % or close last year. People don’t mind them taking all kinds of pain killers and strong anti-inflammatories to get back on the field. They can utilize practically any other medical treatment to play. You have a doctor monitor the HGH use during the recovery. And you could get a real HGH level before they start treatment so that it could be used as a barometer later.

  4. bbnate420 says:

    Excuse the tome.

  5. Dukeshire says:

    Football season is finally here. My life is beginning to make sense again.

  6. lol, Duke. Hear Hear!

    “Watch”? Five things to “Watch at Training Camp”??

    You mean this isn’t a blog about watching old game film and arguing about whose predictions are the most outlandish??

    FOOTBALL IS BACK!! :-) Heading to the VMAC of Friday!

  7. “There is some evidence, though not conclusive, that HGH does help your tissues to heal after an injury. I don’t get why people would be against that?”

    I agree 100%, Nate. A good example of why I think fans and the league are overboard about PEDs. Besides, Science advances, and we can’t put the genie back int he bottle.

  8. seatowntp says:

    Stevos, what are you talking about? I can’t get the genie OUT of the bottle, or lamp, for that matter. If I could have three wishes granted…

  9. Three wishes seatowntp? lol. I’ll go with these…

    1. victory over the Panthers on Sept 8
    2. CRUSH the Niners on Sept 15
    3. I’ll have to think about my third wish. wouldn’t want to waste it.

  10. bbnate420 says:

    Good lord, someone that agrees. Thanks, Stevos.

    The difference is that it is strongly suggested by data that testosterone is a PED even after the healing period ends. My term of healing period is ambiguous though. Testosterone actually primarily works by allowing you to recover faster and lift more often. Or at least the additional lifting makes more of a difference than if you just lifted without it.

    Most people that have somewhat seriously lifted weights should be able to tell you that muscle rest is VERY important. The testosterone makes it less so. I believe that HGH has only been suggested by some studies to help rebuilt tissues, i.e. muscles, tendons, and ligaments, while recovering from a major/significant injury. Not while healthy.

  11. bbnate420 says:

    If I really had 3 wishes I doubt any would specifically mention the Hawks, but if they were all Hawks 2013 related, not in order of importance:

    1. Stomp the Whiners and shut Harbarf’s mouth 3 times in the 2013/2014 season.

    2. RW play at least as well as he did the last 4 weeks and playoffs during the season.

    3. Bruce Irvin being a BEAST on the rush from SLB and DE.

  12. bbnate420 says:

    Obviously that’s besides the obvious of winning the SB.

  13. banosser says:

    “There is some evidence, though not conclusive, that HGH does help your tissues to heal after an injury. I don’t get why people would be against that?”

    I too agree… and the same as with Celebrex.. It helps heal.. of course it can’t be abused, but wtf are the team doctors there for?

  14. chuck_easton says:


    As we’ve discussed, argued, and screamed at each other before, your medical training tells you one thing about HGH. As such you refuse to accept it as a PED.

    Truth is players are using it in the belief it will help them heal faster, grow muscle more quickly, and become stronger than they would be if they were not taking it. Thus the players are using it as a performance enhancer. They are taking it by way of injecting a chemical solution ( drug) into their body at a level that wouldn’t be there naturally.

    So the way the players are using HGH is as a performance enhancing drug. PED.

    The NFL defines a PED as any artificial substance ( or naturally occurring substance taken artificially in a level that would not occur naturally) that is used by a player in an attempt to gain an advantage over other players.

    Your study of the medical research tells you otherwise. But if players started believing swallowing live goldfish would give them a performance advantage there would be a run on every aquarium in a five mile radius of all NFL training facilities.

    That is why the NFL considers HGH a PED.

    I’m not trying to convince you. I can’t. Just giving the legal side of it as a counterpoint to the medical side.

  15. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    lol 3 wishes

    undefeated season

    RW3 league MVP

    RW3/percy harvin co superbowl MVP

    dream big guys or why dream

  16. RDPoulsbo says:

    As stem cell research continues to advance, would people look down upon it as a PED? 10 years ago, we had plenty of people running around denouncing it as generally inethical. Now, it’s looking very promising for things like recovering from torn ACLs. I have to guess guys like Peterson, RG3 and Clemons are probably using it as it would be virtually impossible for them to come back so quickly under more traditional treatments. In any case, if it becomes more embraced, we probably will see HGH become more obsolete for injury recovery and it probably stays on the banned list. It is an interesting subject bbnate. It’s only going to become more of an issue as science advances.

  17. seahawksteven777 says:

    My life just seems so much better with football in it lol.

    On a side note, I’m not saying Adrian Peterson is guilty of it, but I wonder with HGH testing, if we’ll see amazing recoveries like we saw from him. It does seem odd he recovered so fast AND had the best season of his career. I mean, they don’t test for it at the moment so why wouldn’t it be an incentive to take it to ensure he gets back on field?

  18. sluggo42 says:

    Wow, I’m down with both Nate and Chuck, and stuck in the middle! Both sides make sense. I would hate to be a juror in this issue.

    No way will players play all star game in August and risk injury. That’s why the NFL all star game is doomed forever. They need to just do some skills exhibitions or something, for it will never be any rougher that it has already softened down to

  19. Singularitarian says:

    Chuck. I got a vitamin b12 shot this week and I felt great, maybe a little more energy. By those standards vitamin b is a PED

  20. Singularitarian says:

    And let me tell you about this awesome PED called protein. You get it in powder form like cocaine, and all you have to do is blend it with some milk and a banana into a “shake”. It is proven to help build muscle when taken excessively

  21. Singularitarian says:

    I don’t think the players should be able to eat gluten free if it helps with their joints, gluten free bread? Tapioca powder is a PED!!!!

  22. Autenpus says:

    I’m guilty of cheating at work since I drink coffee. It makes me more alert, productive, and efficient than those who don’t drink coffee. I hope I don’t get caught or my boss may force to me take time off unpaid.

  23. bbnate420 says:

    I meant to broach the subject of HGH as a medical treatment. It’s not necessarily synonymous with an “uncontrolled substance” for lack of a better term. It would still leave debate about using it uncontrolled by a doctor. As we know, there are players that can be prescribed Adderall or the such if approved by a doctor and the league, or a league doctor as it may be.

    Chuck, how dare you? ;-) I see your point. I’m not going to argue the legal language of the current CBA or it’s legal meaning. It could certainly say that anything used in an attempt to have an advantage over other players is a PED. I’m sure we know that legal language is up to interpretation, just like any other language. I don’t know about any precedent in this area. Regardless, something could certainly be a PED legally even though it may not be proven to be a PED logically necessarily. I’m okay with the NFL testing for HGH, as long as the procedures are good. And I personally don’t see the harm in it being used to heal under a doctor’s care. A condition for getting HGH for an injury could be that you have to at least take the biomarker test for an injection. Then you could set a relatively reliable baseline for that certain player. That could be used to determine future HGH tests while not under a doctor’s care for it.

  24. bbnate420 says:

    I believe Chuck is arguing PED in legal language versus logic. Obviously you could list many things that increase performance to some degree. I’m defending you, Chuck. Who’d have thought.

    BTW, I don’t refuse to accept HGH as a PED. I just don’t accept it yet. If enough good studies are done and point to the same conclusion, I will accept it. I wouldn’t be overly shocked even. We really just don’t know scientifically what taking large doses of HGH does to healthy adults.

  25. tealskin says:

    Any argument can be taken to the ridiculous point. It might be difficult to draw the lines but there are drugs that damage. Is “roid rage” a fiction? Are we going to create a culture where anything goes? I prefer some parameters even if hard to maintain.

  26. bbnate420 says:

    Well, every drug damages to some degree, unintended. There’s not a drug out there without a negative side effect for at least some people that take it. Most of the time it’s minor. I’m not arguing for athletes to be allowed to use anabolic steroids. They are overwhelmingly thought to be a PED. I am all for testing for these. I just think a lot of these issues are more grey than black and white.

    BTW, NFL athletes are prescribed steroids all the time by the NFL doctors. There are different kinds of steroids. Testosterone is an Anabolic Steroid. Cortisone shots, which are given regularly for inflammation, are what are classified as Corticosteroids.

  27. WiscCory says:

    3 wishes for the 2012-2013 Hawks:

    1) Stay healthy
    2) Stay healthy
    3) Stay healthy

    That happened last year (less Clemons, and maybe Red).

  28. RDPoulsbo says:

    I have no problem with players taking legally prescribed drugs, be it adderall, vicodin, HGH, whatever. Of course that doesn’t stop quacks from prescribing it for anything just to make a quick buck.

    Taking baseline parameters is probably the best way forward. If a player is prescribed HGH for an injury, then fine. Keep everything above board and monitor the level and progress of the healing process and make sure the levels go back down to baseline parameters before he is cleared to play.

  29. hawkfan777 says:

    Ok, I think its time to change the subject.

    McGrath, what are you thinking? What team would allow or what player would want to play in that game and potentially knock them out for the entire season? At least when they play now they have potentially time to heal for the next season.

    That would not make the pro bowl better. If anything it would become more scrubs because most would opt-out or if they did play they would play to protect themselves.

    Also, how would you make the Pro Bowl? Based on how you did the year before? With possibly a different team????

  30. bbnate420 says:

    As far as McGrath’s suggestion, never happen. The league talked about making it more important or cancelling it before the 2013 one. One in August would be hard to fill.

    I asked this before, but does anyone know what’s up with Boling? It looks like he hasn’t posted an article in a month. I hope he’s still here to help with the Hawks. He and Eric do a great job of covering TC and the Hawks in general for us.

    BTW, thank you to all the people that post practice reports on here after being there. They are great and appreciated.

  31. I would hope that Dave Boling has been on vacation during the slow season, as we all should probably have been taking a break from arguing football for a while. ;-) I hope to see him and Eric there on the sidelines at the VMAC, enduring those grueling hard days of watching football practice in the sun. ;-)

  32. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Does anyone know how many Seahawks made this list?
    I’m not an ESPN Insider.

  33. rramstad says:

    Random aside. At one point it was fairly common for players to take six or eight acetaminophen 45 minutes or so before a game, as a preventative, either that or ibuprofen depending on if they needed the anti inflammatory effects. Basically just to make the hits not hurt as much, and to ward off any possible minor headaches from contact. I don’t know if players still do this… and I’ve also heard of guys taking caffeine pills or drinking a couple of pots of black coffee a couple of hours before a game. Basically it’s impossible to legislate what goes into the body, just about anything can be a PED, like a vitamin shot… it’s just where you draw the line, and how you test for infractions, that seems to be the major issues.

  34. Macabrevity says:

    Zach Miller, a blocking TE… our most indispensable player? I suppose so, as long as you exclude our QB, RT, C, FS, Sam, Mike, and arguably you could put Beast, Red, or any number of other guys ahead of Zach… but sure, why not? Maybe he should’ve just stuck with “thinnest position” but even that would’ve been arguable.

  35. bbnate420 says:

    TE Miller could be One of the most irreplaceable due to lack of depth, but I have to think that RW is the most indispensable?

    I would hope no players take 6-8 acetaminophen’s before a game anymore, although it does depend on the dose. That could seemingly lead to kidney and liver problems. You don’t want that to go along with your severe osteoarthritis and brain damage.

  36. bbnate420 says:

    I know that Georgia must agree with my first paragraph.

  37. rramstad says:

    Zach Miller basically won the Washington game single handed, and if he wasn’t on the squad for the Atlanta game, it would have been a laughable blowout.

    I can totally see people ranking him as the most indispensable Seahawk. I wouldn’t agree with that, but I can see the logic behind it.

    Marshawn had two awful fumbles in the two playoff games, though I love the Beast, and he made up for it in the Washington game. ET had one pick in each game, but also had a couple of bad or missed tackles, and a couple of errors in coverage.

    Russell played very very well… and would definitely get my vote for most indispensable Seahawk in that you can’t find another player like him, period, in the league. Conversely there are big TE with soft hands that you can find as free agents… they just aren’t plentiful, and aren’t cheap. I suppose an argument could be made that if Zach went down we would be totally screwed right now, as there isn’t anyone out there that we could acquire, where if Russell went down, we could find a decent QB that might be able to make this team work acceptably OK. I don’t really buy it, we can survive without a TE in this offense, if necessary, based on the strength of our wideouts, the offensive line, and read option.

  38. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Losing Miller would be tough. Especially the way he came on at the end of the year.

    Now losing Wilson would shatter most Super Bowl dreams around here. I know I would be sick to my stomach and probably would have to stay off this blog for a year.

    BobbyK would have to stay off this blog too if Jackson is the starter again for a long period. Lol.

  39. SandpointHawk says:

    GeorgiaH ~ Yankinta cut and pasted that on yesterday string. Seattle and San Francisco’s full write up from the under 25 article. Here is is again…

    1. Seattle Seahawks
    Some teams can match Seattle’s depth and some can match its star power. But no team can match both. It starts with star quarterback Russell Wilson, who has Golden Tate out wide while Pro Bowl left tackle Russell Okung protects the standout signal-caller. This year’s draft added Christine Michael to Robert Turbin as a potential long-term replacement for Marshawn Lynch.

    But where the Seahawks really shine is on defense. Every level of the unit has at least one potential star player. Bruce Irvin was a divisive first-round pick on draft day, and isn’t much in run support yet, but it’s hard to turn your nose up at an eight-sack rookie season. Bobby Wagner is another of the new wave of speedy linebackers who can bring the pain without being 250 pounds, and K.J. Wright has been an exemplary outside linebacker early in his career. Most importantly, the Seahawks have a shutdown corner in Richard Sherman and possibly the best safety combo in the game in Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. Teams that jump from 7-9 to 11-5 generally need a consolidation year before they’re set to become contenders for good — but the talent already in place in Seattle should keep any talk of regression a distant thought.

    2. San Francisco 49ers
    As was the case last season, only their NFC West brethren can match the level of elite young talent the 49ers possess. No team has a 1-2 punch as good and impactful as Colin Kaepernick and Aldon Smith, even if both have tiny blemishes on their overall résumés. Anthony Davis has blossomed from a raw, powerful tackle to a complete mauler in the run game and NaVorro Bowman is either the best or second-best middle linebacker in the league, depending on how you rate him against teammate Patrick Willis. Oh, and even though he’s injured, Michael Crabtree, who last year busted through with his first 1,000-yard season, still qualifies for this list.

    Beyond those guys, the 49ers have solid young supplementary backs like LaMichael James and Kendall Hunter. Cornerback Chris Culliver, despite his struggles in the playoffs, was a very valuable player over the past couple of seasons. Then you really pull back and begin to look at the depth. San Francisco managed all this production in the now despite basically redshirting its entire 2012 draft class. It had more picks than any team in the 2013 draft. Then the 49ers traded Alex Smith for two more high-round picks. The 49ers are “out-Belichicking” Bill Belichick, and as a result, their roster is downright scary.

    Read more here:

  40. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Thanks SandpointHawk, but wasn’t there a top 25 player ranking, (for players under 25) with Luck being #1? I think Mel Kiper made the list.

  41. bbnate420 says:

    BobbyK has been MIA regardless, Georgia.

    I meant losing RW would hurt like most teams losing their Franchise QB. I think they could win with TJack if the other things go right. I know BobbyK agrees!

  42. chuck – I remember an article about stuff like Red Bull being brought into locker rooms before games like by the pallet loads… Why isn’t that a PED?

  43. montanamike2 says:

    Super stoked!
    My new jerseys arrived just now and i’m set. Although i’ve been a fan for years these are my first jerseys ever. I want to wear my Chancellor jersey before the Wilson. I think it would be a PED for a DE to use Angel Dust just before a game but i’m sure it would help with pressure and sacks.

  44. bbnate420 says:

    I sincerely hope not, BobbyK. As I’m sure 99% of us here do. I think TJack could come in and not lose 3-4 games if necessary. I hope it’s not.

  45. bbnate420 says:


  46. I hope not either (that was written before we drafted Wilson). While I didn’t like him as our starter (understatement), I am perfectly fine with him as the back-up.

  47. Mr Williams: Who is gonna compete with Tate for PR in camp and pre-season? Don’t want PH or WT3 getting hurt – is that maybe a role for Justin Veltung who usta return kickoffs and punts for the Vandals? He can really jump, too!

  48. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    klm, it is banned in college sports or was anyway

  49. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Thanks BobbyK for a re-visit to that thread. Funny comment by Palerydr sets the stage for more funny comments on that thread. Lol.

  50. Dukeshire says:

    Sherman on the SI cover is cool. Not many Seahawks have made it before.

  51. On HGH: While the jury is still out on whether and/or to what extent HGH helps athletes, it is banned by the NFL, so any player that takes it is knowingly breaking the rules–in effect, cheating. Even if there is no real benefit, it is still cheating and should be punished.

    However, I am uneasy with the ban and I feel there is much more research that needs to be done before labeling HGH a PED, or even harmful to people. If it does help speed up or improve the healing process, and/or build muscle, then what are the side affects and how bad are they? Whats the cost/benefit analysis? Where do you draw the line b/w legal and illegal performance enhancers?

    Adderall will make you test positive for amphetamines. That right there is enough for me to agree with a ban as a PED. But is it harmful? Again, cost/benefit analysis needs to be done. And if huge numbers of players already have an exemption for it, then how can they justify banning it? I suspect many who could use it are denied a waiver, and many who dont really need it obtain waivers; thats how it goes in the business. I have a nasty suspicion that if went public with how many players per team have an exemption for Adderall, you’d find League Pals like the Giants, Niners, and Pats etc to have some of the highest exemptions, but thats just my opinion based on watching how Goodell and his cronies operate.

    And comparing Adderall and HGH to coffee and Red Bull is apples and oranges. You need a prescrip for Adderall and an exemption on top in the NFL, and you sure dont for caffeine, and thats because the league believes one to be far more potent and/or dangerous.

    While your at it, you might as well compare PED’s with food or water or air by that logic…

  52. Slugbug–Bobbyk sighting!

  53. Dukeshire says:

    That Legion of Boom FB page posts *way* too often. I like the enthusiasm but my news feed is just cluttered all to hell now. lol

  54. Glad to see Sherm on the cover, but I wish they had used a live-action shot of him covering a good WR or making a play, showing his intensity on-field. I detest those cheesy helmet-less cover shots SI seems so into these days….blech!

    Yep, Im a grumpy old man and Im not yet 40, I know…

  55. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Better to be a grumpy old man than a Drunk Grumpy old man.

    On second thought I take that back. Lol.

  56. rramstad says:

    STTBM, I thought I read somewhere that the number of NFL exemptions for Adderall is actually quite tiny. Someone in the NFL indicated this at some point back when the whole Sherman bad test thing was blowing up. Basically it wasn’t just that you needed a prescription, you needed a documented medical history showing the symptoms and treatment over an extended period of time and that from what they could see most people with hyperactivity were diagnosed and getting treated with some form of drug typically in the early teens or even earlier. I think the spokesperson said the number of NFL players with Adderall exemptions was less than would fit on two hands or possibly low double digits i.e. maybe a couple dozen players league wide?

    Yeah, here goes:

    “According to Dr. Lenard Adler, who runs the adult A.D.H.D. program at New York University Langone Medical Center, 4.4 percent of adults in the general population have the disorder, of which an estimated two-thirds are men. Birch said the number of exemptions the N.F.L. has granted for players who need treatment for A.D.H.D. is “almost certainly fewer” than 4.4 percent of those in the league.”

    I couldn’t find the quotes from the spokesperson, I may have mangled that, but it’s a pretty detailed process, which is why Moffitt was disciplined for taking Adderall… he had a valid prescription but didn’t go through the right process to get the drug approved by the NFL and should have. Allegedly he did jump through those hoops subsequently and is now NFL approved to take the drug, but the NFL won’t confirm or deny that, and Moffitt isn’t supposed to discuss this status with the public or media.

  57. bbnate420 says:

    Just because Red Bull and coffee are less controlled doesn’t automatically mean they are safer. Cigarettes and alcohol, the drugs that kill the most people by far are legal. Caffeine is much less potent, but it gives the same effect as Adderall.

  58. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I heard somewhere that you can die of drinking too much water at one time. That’s why I prefer beer. Beer will make you pass out before you get to that point.

  59. SandpointHawk says:

    If caffeine and nicotine were introduced to society today they would require a doctors prescription…

  60. Ewalters7354 says:

    Did you guys see ET new cut? Maybe Sherm will cut his dreads next.I just hope he didn’t cut his hair to transform his image.Can’t take another dumb suspension ala Bruce Irvin

  61. bbnate420 says:

    Georgia, yes, that is true. Too much of anything can be fatal. Water actually is more fatal than people think, not that you’re likely at all to overdose on it. Too much water will interrupt the salt-potassium, NaCl-K, pumps in your heart. There was a mother that died less than 10 years ago by drinking too much water in trying to win a radio contest.

  62. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Ewalters7354- Do you have a pic or link?

    Nice to see you come out of your man cave.

    I thought Stevos talk of bringing back evan moore would bring you out.

  63. GeorgiaHawk says:


    That’s right, I remember some woman dying from drinking too much water on a radio contest.
    She would be alive today if it was beer.

  64. bbnate420 says:

    Could be actually, Georgia. Alcohol will pull water out of your body.

  65. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I just feel so empty inside because I am not best friends with Russell Wilson. Go Hawks!

  66. bbnate420 says:

    “Water intoxication, also known as water poisoning or dilutional hyponatremia, is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside safe limits by over-hydration.

    Under normal circumstances, accidentally consuming too much water is exceptionally rare. Nearly all deaths related to water intoxication in normal individuals have resulted either from water drinking contests in which individuals attempt to consume large amounts of water, or long bouts of intensive exercise during which electrolytes are not properly replenished, yet huge amounts of fluid are still consumed.[1]

  67. SaigonSun says:

    The hypocrisy about the “PED”s just gets my blood boiling… I fully support the ban on ‘roids and blood transfusions, but the “broad brush strokes” of the PED laws are totally uncalled for. Once again I put all this mess on the NFL commissioner and the governing body. NFL needs to get rid of Goddell, as simple as that.
    I never knew (until now) about the old practice to take obscene amounts of acetaminophens before the games. I wonder if that was the cause of Mr. Kenny Easley’s ruined kidneys and the premature ending of his football career.
    On the other note, the Eagles have bunch of QBs and they can’t keep them all. Any thoughts on that?

  68. Ewalters7354 says:

    Georgia, can’t seem to get the link.It’s on instagram under the seahawks page.

  69. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Well said SaigonSun.

  70. freedom_X says:

    The acetaminophen and ibuprofen comments are particularly telling for Seahawk fans. Why did the great Kenny Easley’s career come to a very premature end? Because heavy use of those legal drugs damaged his kidneys. He sued the Seahawks too, if I recall correctly.

    My argument against PEDs is because players who don’t want to jeopardize their health have to take them to compete with players that do. That might be OK if the side effects and collateral effects of the drugs were well known and understood, and these were medically administered. But they’re not.

    But the prevailing attitude on this board seems to be bread and circuses – as long as the players think it’s OK, let them take the drugs regardless, just so long as we get a good show.

    Well, consider this – if the future of the NFL could be jeopardized because of the concussion issue (which every player knows the risk of from Pee-wee league on and even sigh waivers concerning it) – what do you think the legal future of the NFL would be if the NFL OK’ed players using any substance they wanted to enhance performance, regardless of the side effects?

    If the NFL can be at risk for concussions, an “open-drug” policy like this would certainly open the league up for multi-billion dollar lawsuits. Thus I agree with the legal reasoning for opposing PEDs. If those suits go through, there goes our entertainment.

  71. raymaines says:

    I think the Seahawks already have one more QB than they need and don’t care how many PHI cuts. I’d be happy to have T-Jack as a backup, and even though I wouldn’t understand it I guess I’d be even happier if BQ beats him out. In PC I trust.

  72. Dukeshire says:

    Get it all out, everyone. Tomorrow we’ll have actual football to discuss.

  73. bbnate420 says:

    freedom_x, not that it makes no difference, and I didn’t read anyone advocating unregulated use of anabolic steroids and whatever else, but the future of the game doesn’t rest on PEDs IMO. I’ll bet you that if the NFL is gone in 20 years it’s because of more information about the brain damage that occurs simply from playing football rather than any PED.

  74. bbnate420 says:

    And Easley took too much Ibuprophen. Too much acetaminophen would just destroy his liver, not his kidneys most likely.

  75. bbnate420 says:

    I shouldn’t say JUST his liver. Once your liver is completely done, you’re done.

  76. freedom_X says:

    True, no one has explicitly called for an open-drug policy. But plenty of people are complaining about the NFL banning this drug or that drug. The only policy that addresses all these complaints is an open-drug policy.

    Seriously, if people here are saying steroids are modern technology and Adderall is just like caffeine, only stronger – how can you draw any line at all?

    Look at the issue from the perspective of the NFL protecting itself from future lawsuits, and then the drug policy makes sense, regardless of its actual effectiveness or flaws. Why the NFL is so supportive of it suddenly is clear.

  77. sluggo42 says:

    All these great topics and we concentrate on PEDs again…

  78. What time in the am do they practice? Are they on the field early when it’s hot? Is it 12 hours until the Seahawks are actually practicing?

    Hate to do it, but I’ll re-post something chuck-easton wrote ‘hereinabove’ (old legalese):

    “The NFL defines a PED as any artificial substance (or naturally occurring substance taken artificially in a level that would not occur naturally) that is used by a player in an attempt to gain an advantage over other players.”

    Sounds like Red Bull to me, or bull-****, anyways(?)

    GO HAWKS!!!

  79. sluggo42 says:

    Why are the niners rated as the #2 developer of young talent? Seriously?

  80. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’ve always maintained that if a doctor prescribes it for the benefit of the player (not solely for an on field advantage) then it should be legal. There are all sorts controls for that like league doctors submitting copies of prescriptions to the league office. If HGH is prescribed to help a player hey back to health, it would be easier for the league to monitor with the coming baseline blood tests to be sure it’s not abused. It seems to be over the top for the league to be blocking medical treatments because of overly stringent rules.

  81. Dukeshire says:

    klm – I believe practice is at 1:30 tomorrow afternoon.

  82. I find it interesting in the Danny O’Niell article that he has Seattle picked to finish first in the division but he has SF “graded” higher in a number of areas – a few of which surprised me.

    1. QB – He rated SF with a B+ but Seattle with a B . I totally don’t get that. I can see that some people may rank Kap close to RW and few few goofballs might like him better but to say that Colt is any where near a TJack as a back up is just plain stupid

    2. RB – While Gore has been considered Elite longer than Lynch, I think we are equal to them in this regard. The one thing I will give them is that the back ups they have offer a better change of pace than we can, but we can beat people down, three people deep!!

  83. raymaines says:

    Just an observation but I don’t think PC wants anything to do with a change of pace back and is sincerely happy to let SF be ahead of the Seahawks in that regard.

  84. nmseafan says:

    Any hopes of the Hawks having the ability to kick a 50+ yard field goal this season? Is Wiggs any better than Hauschka in that regard?

  85. raymaines says:

    This is to show how good the Seahawk receivers are and how wide the gulf between top flight NFC teams and bottom feeder AFC teams is:

  86. Ray – I agree, but I can see how someone would have a valid point if they disagreed.

    I have heard Wiggs has a stronger leg, BUT he is not as accurate – I do NOT know this to be fact, but soon enough we will know!!!

    I am curious to see how the Punt returner battle goes, I know Tate will get a crack at it but who else will they throw back there. I remember last season there were a few DB’s returning kicks in practice, maybe they will be doing it again.

  87. nmseafan says:

    xcman – Thanks

  88. Dukeshire says:

    I agree with ray as well: Carroll offensive philosophy seems to have little use for a so-called change-of-pace RB. And with this roster should he change that, they can stick Harvin back there out of a pistol.

    Tomorrow by this time: practice report!

  89. Duke – don’t know why but I totally didn’t think about that! Very true!!

  90. montanamike2 says:

    I worry about kicker too, we may snag someone off the wire or they may not ask Hauschka to kick over 45 yards, i don’t know.

  91. montanamike2 says:

    Tomorrow isn’t here yet? Damn.

  92. inching SLOWLY closer! did I say slowly

  93. Dukeshire says:

    klm – Sorry for the bad info earlier. Practice is at 10:30 tomorrow.

  94. I heard that Wednesday Clemons and Carpenter were scheduled for physicals with the team doc. The most important report tomorrow will be those results.



  96. bbnate420 says:

    Hawks will be broadcasting about 60 minutes of some of the TC practices again. Practice at 10:30 today. Time of broadcast will vary.

  97. bbnate420 says:

    Sorry, actually practice starts at 10.

  98. Dukeshire says:

    The Hawks web site says 10:30, but regardless: football is here!

  99. SandpointHawk says:

    “The boys are back in town.”

    Sorry but I had to share that, damn song has been going though my head for hours.

    Go Hawks

  100. bbnate420 says:

    I’m not completely sure I guess, Duke. It says 10 am to 12:30 pm under the video in the link I provided, which is on the Hawks website. I guess I’ll just check in at 10 and see.

    Yes, football is thankfully back. I’m probably most interested in seeing who is healthy enough to practice, i.e. Carp, Clemons, and Avril.

  101. bbnate420 says:

    Defense will have some challenges this year. They face 5 of the top 11 QBs, Kaep twice, on Jaworski’s list during the regular season. Despite some disagreements with the list, these are all good QBs. I probably wouldn’t have rated Kaep or Schaub over RW. I definitely would not have rated Luck above him. They face the top 2 QBs in the preseason, not that it really matters.

  102. bbnate420 says:

    Check out the sign behind Golden Tate as well. I like it.

  103. sluggo42 says:

    Merry Seahawks Day!

    Ok, now watch, tomorrow will be the Super Bowl that we just won and this season will have happened already…

  104. montanamike2 says:

    What a long off season it has been!
    You’re right Sluggo, it will be about 2-3 weeks until the superbowl and then we go back to purgatory.

  105. “Practice will begin at 10:00am and last roughly 2 hours. Check-in is located at The Landing shopping center and will begin at 8:30am. The last shuttle leaves for VMAC at 10:45am.”

  106. rramstad says:

    I’ll post this on the next thread, but whenever we talk PEDs, it makes me think of this…

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