Seahawks Insider

Morning links: The scarcity of shutdown corners

Post by Eric Williams on July 16, 2013 at 8:56 am with 178 Comments »
July 16, 2013 9:07 am
Seattle Seahawks' Richard Sherman, left, intercepts a pass intended for Golden Tate (81) during a drill Monday, June 3, 2013, at an NFL football organized team activity in Renton, Wash. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)
Seattle Seahawks’ Richard Sherman, left, intercepts a pass intended for Golden Tate (81) during a drill Monday, June 3, 2013, at an NFL football organized team activity in Renton, Wash. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)

Good morning. Just wanted to drop a note to let you know I’m recharging the batteries in Palm Springs this week, so things might be a little slow on the blog.

Be patient, training camp will be here before you know it.

That said, ESPN’s Ashley Fox takes an interesting look at why elite cornerbacks are so hard to find and develop in today’s NFL.

The Seattle Seahawks are lucky to have two, talented cornerbacks in Richard Sherman and Brandon Browner. But Pete Carroll, a former secondary coach, has an eye for talent at that position, which means Seattle can draft guys to fit their press coverage scheme later on the draft board.

Fox: “Which is why Seattle’s Richard Sherman is feared. He has good hands and an innate ability to knock the ball away before a receiver can catch it. He is big and physical. And in just two seasons since the Seahawks picked him in the fifth round of the 2011 draft, Sherman has become the prototypical corner in today’s NFL.”

Gary Horton of Scouts Inc. puts Percy Harvin on his list of the most versatile players in the NFC. You must be an ESPN Insider to view this.

According to Forbes, the Seahawks are the No. 27 in world’s top 50 most valuable sports franchises at 1.04 billion.

Danny O’Neil of 710 ESPN Seattle reviews Seattle’s stacked cornerback position.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com notes that players are beginning to return from vacation and folks the VMAC are preparing for training camp, which begins next week.

Here’s ESPN football analyst Ron Jaworski providing his analysis on Russell Wilson in the video below.

Yahoo Sports fantasy experts Brandon Funston and Andy Behrens debate who’s the better selection, Wilson and Colin Kaepernick.

Nick Ruebek of the Omaha World-Herald talks with Seahawks receiver Phil Bates about his chances of making the 53-man roster in his second season. (H/T to Georgia Hawk)

Len Pasquarelli writing for the National Football Post has an interesting tidbit on Chris Clemon’s recovery from knee surgery. Pasquarelli: “There are only three players in the league who have registered 11 or more sacks in each of the past three seasons. We’ll give you the first two: Jared Allen and DeMarcus Ware. Want to guess the third? Well, if you said Seattle defensive end Chris Clemons, you’re a pretty astute student of the game. We note Clemons because he seems to be recovering fairly well from the ACL injury he suffered in the wild card round against Washington six months ago and, while the Seahawks will take things deliberately with his rehab, there is a chance he could be ready for camp and to start the season. For now, at least, the Seahawks are considering the PUP list as only a remote possibility.”

Categories:
Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 178
  1. yankinta says:

    We gotta carry 6 CB on Roster. I would like for us to keep both Tharold Simon and Byron Maxwell but I seriously doubt we’d carry 7 cb on Roster.

    JAWS’ QB analysis is Garbage…..

  2. Eric, we appreciate everything you do. Believe it or not. And thanks for the links!

    Enjoy your time in Palm Springs!

  3. I’ve wondered how much does having future Hall of Famer Earl Thomas playing FS make up for the deficiencies of the other 3 starting secondary members? Would Sherman and Browner’s lack of deep speed be a bigger issue if Thomas couldn’t cover the entire back end?

  4. chuck_easton says:

    6 CBs seems like a lot of players at one position. Teams usually carry 4 or 5 at most.

    But it is an area f strength. 11 DBs (6 CBs and 5 safeties) wouldn’t surprise me.

  5. sluggo42 says:

    Thanks Eric, relax baby, you will be busy soon enough, and thanks for keeping the site up and good during the boring off season!
    Kudos!

    Don’t forget, we also have WT3, jLane, and new guy Tharold Simon as back-ups! These guys could start for lots of other teams.

    PAB, I think ET does give a security blanket to cheat a bit, but not as much as one might think, probably helps BB more than Sherman. I also think Winfield is going to have a positive effect on the whole dynamic as well which will also benefit from an improved rush as well.

    I try to temper my excitement, but never have I seen so many pieces fall into place in our team… Pete just needs to really mentally motivate them to get them to play to their full potential, and not let a Philly type of ” dream team” letdown occur. He has to make every game a chip on their shoulder affair

  6. Dukeshire says:

    IMo, that’s pretty clear, pabuwal. That right there is (one important reason) why I have said many times he is the most important player on that side of the ball. I agree with you, here. But it’s not simply straight line speed he helps them with. His range also allows them to play so aggressively at the line. Because even fast corners get beat if their fundamentals break down at the line.

    Eric, enjoy time with the family. Come next week your time with them with be scarce indeed.

  7. It’s great to hear about Chris Clemons’ progress. Just imagine if the Seahawks have four double-digit (or close) sack guys (Clemons, Avril, Bennett or Irvin. They could be truly dominant.

    They’ve got the talent, they’ve got the depth, and they’ve got a good/great coach. Now all we have to hope for is chemistry and luck (no major injuries).

  8. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Yes relax Eric, recharge your batteries and get ready for a wild season.

  9. GeorgiaHawk says:

    sluggo42- I agree that Winfield is going to have a positive effect on the whole dynamic as well.
    Besides that his veteran leadership has already had a big effect on Thomas.

  10. GeorgiaHawk says:

    One of my predictions for this year, (since I am more out on a limb than hugging the tree) is that Earl Thomas will have double digit INTs.

  11. EarthWindNdHawks says:

    I could watch that video a hundred times. Thank Lombardi (and the other football Gods) we lucked into this guy in the 3rd.

  12. yankinta says:

    EarthWindNdHawks, NO, you should be thanking John Schneider. He’s the one that scouted RW at U of W in 2011. He’s the one that pushed Pete to draft him in the 2nd round but Pete told him to calm down and was able to get him in the third round.

  13. GeorgiaHawk says:

    BTW- There was only 19-20 Posts about Wilson on the last thread out of about 88. I’m sure about 10 of them were mine. Nice Try xcman.

  14. GeorgiaHawk says:

    My bad. 19-20 posts out of 104.

  15. jawpeace says:

    I bet Richard Sherman’s agent was smiling ear to ear after reading Ashley Fox’s corner back article.

  16. GeorgiaHawk’s comments= usually decent and enjoyable
    GeorgiaHawk’s links= Ok but not great (nothing we haven’t seen before)
    GeorgiaHawks’s song parodies= the most annoying thing I have ever seen. I’d rather read 100 BobbyK posts about T-Jack or Hutch than to even have to scroll past the nonsense song posts. sorry man. not trying to be a jerk although I guess I am. at least we have two things in common. Beer & Seahawks. So I’ll give the songs a pass at this point. (before anyone goes Wigstrom Wig-Out on me, I am only messing around) Only….TEN…MORE….DAYS….thank you jaysus!

  17. Georgia, part of the reason people don’t post up to your expected numbers regarding Wilson is because he has won over every single one of us. There is no worry that he will pour his soul into being the best he can be. There is no argument, not debate. He’s the cornerstone of the team. He has my full faith and confidence.

    For better or worse I tend to focus on where we need to improve when it comes to posting. Not to be negative, just because it’s where we can get better. Kudos to where we are already solid.

  18. You can turn it around too: how much does having a big physical corner like Browner, who often jams his man at the LOS for several seconds, and who can also blanket a WR downfield, help out an undersized FS like Thomas? How much does having a smart, rangy cb like Sherman–a guy who knows when to drop his man and poach into another DB’s zone to make a pick–help him out? Not to mention the fact that having a SS like Chancellor–the largest ever to play the position in the NFL–who is not only a hard hitter but decent in coverage, helps the FS out tremendously as well.

    The Seahawks built a secondary with big, tall, fast corners, a fast FS who can cover ground and a monster SS by design. This IS a scheme defense where they chose their parts deliberately. They are designed to fit together as something greater than the sum of their parts, and they do; but its not simply because of one player.

    They could do just as well with another fast FS who likes to hit, like Eric Berry or a few others. But yeah, the defensive scheme requires a FS who can really cover some ground. FS is the lynchpin, though the huge contract they have given Chancellor should tell you how much they value his contribution–obviously more than many fans on this blog.

    I seriously doubt they were looking for a FS less than 5′-10″, but Thomas is so fast and tough and smart that he almost always makes up for his lack of size.

    Sherman and Browner may not be as fast as Mike Wallace or Chris Johnson, but they are ridiculously fast for their size, and can hang with pretty much anyone in a football game–Im not worried about who would win in a track meet. Both Sherm and Browner can run 4.5’s, which is plenty fast enough.

    We are lucky to have a secondary this stacked. I think two or three of our guys will get poached via waivers and end up starting, and I wouldnt be surprised if every single guy in our secondary that we waive ends up on someone else’s active roster.

  19. Galena–Exactly. Well said.

  20. GeorgiaHawk says:

    DFloydd- Just for you, I will stop the song parodies. Hell, why have any fun.
    This is the no fun blog so why have any fun? Lol.

  21. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Better yet, let’s promote bitching and moaning about things posted. Great idea!
    While we’re at it let’s denounce any article from Bleacher report, Rant sports, or Field gulls.
    Any more great ideas?

  22. GeorgiaHawk. Please know I was only kidding. I purposely took it to the unnecessary level like alot of the off season posts I’ve been reading. Hell, fill the next post with nothing BUT song parodies.fine by me! :) I am just lying in wait for the season to begin. Usually only post occasionally when things are actually happening. Not like the last 3 months. pure agony.

  23. I’ll admit that I just scroll over the song parodies. But I don’t mind anyone posting them. I also do a lot of scrolling when I read Peter King’s Monday Morning Quarterback column at SI.com. I don’t really care what type of coffee he drank or whom he sat next to on the plane. I’m sure many people have scrolled over stuff that I’ve written — that’s almost necessary on the internet, where there’s just too much stuff to read.

  24. Georgia–Much of the bitching and whining lately has been by you. You have become ridiculously thin-skinned about your own opinions, and cannot handle any dissenting voice.

    I dont mind that you like Field Gulls and Bleacherreport. I dont care for them, though as I said Field Gulls is much improved. I tend to prefer sites that use at least one insider and/or professional writer. I dont mind fan-columnists, but the ones that suck at grammar and have poorly stated arguments and opinions get slammed by me.

    And contrary to your inferences, I dont hate everything you post links to: ive even commented on a Bleacherreport article you linked to that I liked. Also, I liked Bobbyk’s pieces for rantsports, though I occasionally disagreed with his opinion. And I supported his endeavor.

    I suppose youre looking for everyone to hold hands and sing Kumba-Ya and all agree that everything anyone says on here is the most bestest smartest comment EVER?! And all the links to articles are just faboo?!

    The offseason is for discussing and arguing all things football. What else is there to do?

  25. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Galena- I haven’t been blogging for very long however in almost every blog it appears that most posts are of the negative type. I guess that’s just the way it is now days.
    So I shouldn’t be surprised that folks are mostly focused on the negative here.
    With that said perhaps just a few positive comments on a blog about Wilson is a good thing.

  26. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- Can you ever learn to make your point in one sentence, or at least a paragraph?
    Just saying.

  27. HAHA! yeah!! there are a few here who can’t post a one sentence or heck, even one paragraph answer to save their lives. I scroll past those snooze-fest posts more than the song parodies. HA!! Get to the point already! But then again it is the age of the interwebs. You can post ad nauseum about anything and everything! Weeeeeee!!!

    my next post will be all about how my life got flipped, turned upside down…

  28. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    lol, you all are funny as hell.

  29. MattandCindy says:

    My god. This blog has turned into a high school clique parade. There’s the one group who think they OWN this blog. There’s the group who disagree with everyone about everything because they know the RIGHT answer. Then there’s the couple loners who get jumped on every time they speak.

    Aren’t we on the same team? And yes, team members disagree…but not at the rate I’m seeing here.

  30. Some great comments here… and then again, some of the bitching sounds like you are getting frickin’ impatient for some football!!!! Grrr. lol! I don’t blame you.

    Let the training camp battles begin!!! Then we’ll really have something to argue about! ;-)

  31. MattandCindy – I’m with you. Ha.

    I prefer to imagine that all the bitching sounds like a bunch of 24-year old football players impatiently pawing at the turf and wanting to get on the field and hit somebody!!!

  32. Georgia–If I had as little to say as you, it would fit in one sentence or paragraph.

    I suggest you take your own advice and make positive comments now and then, instead of overreacting every time someone doesnt love everything you post/link to.

    We are extremely lucky as Hawkfans this year. A loaded roster, solid coaching, a great owner, and one of the best fanbases in sports. But talking about how awesome we are is boring. Discussing the weak spots and uncertainties of the roster/staff is what offseasons are for. It lets the worry-wart armchair GM’s go buckwild (and yeah, Im in that camp).

  33. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Morkandmindy is making a comeback!

  34. montanamike2 says:

    Who steps up in the place of McCoy?

  35. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM – “If you were a Carpenter” and Duke was your lady” would you marry him anyways”? Would you have his baby?

  36. GeorgiaHawk says:

    montanamike2 – Wilson to Willson to quote Dukeshire.

  37. bird_spit says:

    While we are bitching about other posters..one pet peeve of mine….yeah yeah yeah..the line starts behind me for pet peeves..

    Any post that I have to move my mouse to page at all, is never read any more..I skip them. That is ..unless they are one of the funny , though at times weak, song parodies. Then I have no issue paging the browser..

  38. bird_spit says:

    Jaws gives Wilson a #12 but during the video describes him as a top 10 QB…something tells me, if Wilson avoids the slump, and hawks make the playoffs, Jaws will move him to the top 10 easy, likely high on the list. Wilson’s accuracy is crazy on the run (we knew that). Loved the video..

  39. MattandCindy says:

    Stevos- LMAO! That’s PERFECT!

    Georgia- What’s morkandmindy? That’s like me calling you Bore-duh. And if making a comeback is me not posting because I’m in the Devil’s butthole getting popped at by people who want me dead, and then coming home and posting again….then I made a comeback.

  40. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Lol STTBM.

    Bye Bye- for today. Girlfriend is hitting me again.

  41. Georgia–Perhaps if you laid off the sauce you would make more sense.

  42. …and youre girlfriend wouldnt beat you…

  43. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Got away from girlfriend for a minute.

    I don’t know if I’m talking to Matt or Cindy, however in the past MorkandMindy was understood as a pet name.

    STTBM- I’m laying off the beer and headed for the Whiskey. I will not post anymore today.

  44. I tend to take everything said in the comments here in stride, because it’s better than just about everywhere else I read. Agree to disagree, have a few drinks and laughs and enjoy the upcoming season. Sure can’t wait for the blog commenter power rankings.

    That being said, after listening to some of the talk about it on the Bob & Groz show, I’m really interested to see what is done with Irvin, if he’s going to be used as a sort of hybrid between LB and DE. I’m thinking so far it’s going to hinge on the health of Clemons and whatever position shows the greatest need in camp, because in all likelihood, someone’s going to get banged up.

    What kind of coverage can Irvin play, and is it the best use of the speed he’s shown?

  45. chuck_easton says:

    All the testy posts on here can only mean two things:

    1. The offseason has reached the stage of house guests that overstay their welcome and/or left overs that have been in the fridge too long.

    2. Camp must be just around the corner.

    Hope it gets here before we have the first web murder of the season.

  46. Georgia–good luck with everything man. Dont really get what I said that set you off so bad yesterday. I really dont like those two blogs, and you do, but I fully support you posting links to articles you like. Ive found many cool articles because folks like you were kind enough to post links, so dont stop. Peace.

    JZombie–You post the $54,000 question. Indeed, what is the best way to use Irvin? I say, thats exactly what Pete is trying to figure out by putting him at LB as well as DE. He’s a freak athlete who fits the 3-4 OLB mold, and Seattle uses a hybrid 4-3 with 3-4 looks….I say the guy is just too fast and strong not to find a way to put him on the field as often as possible. Hopefully he can play both positions, but I dont see him being in at DE on running downs, at least not as long as Clemons is on this team. But perhaps in time he will become better at run D.

    Regardless, this is gonna be a wild season. Cant wait to watch our team play. For me, the biggest question is how the Offensive Line will shake out. Will Carp get his fat ass in shape–and can his knee actually stand up to a full season? Will Moffitt step up or get his butt cut? Will Sweezy continue to improve and actually learn to pass pro? Can Breno hack it at RT?

    But every position group should be fun to watch. Watching the D-line and backers will be fun, and I fully expect Thurmond and Winfield to push the secondary over the top into the stratosphere; we’re gonna be the best secondary EVER. Well, since the Raiders in 1984 maybe…

  47. Dukeshire says:

    The good thing about Carroll’s scheme is that the Sam isn’t called on to cover all that often. TEs will generally be picked up by the SS or even the Mike. There will be a learning curve of course, and I’d expect teams to try and isolate Irvin as well, until he proves he can cover (when asked). Regardless, I really look forward to seeing him play the position. I’m envisioning a Clay Matthews approach to Irvin at strong side ‘backer. Hopefully the production too.

  48. Breno I’m concerned about. I would need to look at the whole season numbers, but a lot of those early penalties on him cost the team momentum. I seem to recall on more than one occasion Beast Mode had a run called back on a holding infraction. We all know the level of play Breno’s capable of, but if he’s going to help the line stay solid, there’s going to have to be some adjustments. That or at least keep his head a little more cool.

    It’s possible a few of those penalties were more discretion of the replacement refs than clear cut moves, but the personal fouls were a little more blatant.

  49. sluggo42 says:

    If Irvin can be a fake Von miller, then I’ll be ecstatic. But, no need to keep running your Ferrari into a block wall, so why not. Lt Clem tie up the left tackle and have Irvin stunt in out of nowhere and %#*€*€^€#* BAM! FUMMMMBLE!

    The rush is going to come fast so they will have to unload it quick, advantage hawks.

    Georgie, I am down with your songs period. But you are on a touch of a rant the last few days, hope all is well my brother…

  50. montanamike2 says:

    JZombie you i think you pinpointed it. PC stated he already envisioned Irvin as a Clay Mathews type at USC. I hope our cast offs don’t go to the freakin 69r’s anymore. There are 30 other desperate teams geez…..

  51. montanamike2 says:

    1 extra you.

  52. dirtbiker_joey says:

    All of this hand-wringing over RW being ranked as the #12 QB in the league prompted me to put my own ranking together. Here is Joe Hall’s ranking of the top ten sports writers who will have the most influence on the outcome of NFL games this year (if you disagree with these rankings, you’re wrong):

    10.
    9.
    8.
    7.
    6.
    5.
    4.
    3.
    2.
    1.

    Stay tuned next week for my power rankings of all 32 projected practice squads.

  53. raymaines says:

    I’m not at all worried about Breno G. He’s not going to the HOF or anything like that but he’s better than a lot of us give him credit for. He drastically cut down on his penalties and improved his zone blocking technique in the second half of the year. Tom Cable loves him and that’s good enough for me.

    I’m a little worried about the guard spots though. All my fingers and toes are crossed for Carpenters knees and Sweezy’s skill set.

  54. I thoroughly disagree with #8 on that list. Should be #4 AT LEAST

  55. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2013/7/16/4529064/wilson-kaepernick-just-chillin

    didn’y read it the pic is funny as hell thou russ looks like a little guy next to kaep

  56. raymaines says:

    Also posted on FG. The Seahawk Wave:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFJYOOeGiFM

  57. We will be doing the whole roster run down again soon won’t we!!! Actually one of my favorite parts of the “pre-season” trying to predict who they will actually keep!

  58. sluggo42 says:

    Ok Xcman
    QB. RW and tJack
    I win…

  59. ^^^^^ very nice!

  60. But go ahead and try and predict WR -DB and LB at this time ;)

  61. FairbanksDoug says:

    I want that Seahawk Wave in a ringtone.

  62. MattandCindy says:

    GeorgiaHawk

    July 16, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Got away from girlfriend for a minute.
    I don’t know if I’m talking to Matt or Cindy, however in the past MorkandMindy was understood as a pet name.

    My fault Georgia. It could have very well been my wife in on that one. As she is deployed at the moment, as I was, I can’t ask her right now.
    But I love the Hawks. Period.

  63. That wave song reminded me that if we ever develop the pass rush that we’re all hoping for I think a cool name for it would be the Tsunami (sp?).

  64. bbnate420 says:

    Serenity Mantra

    Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
    Courage to change the things I can;
    And the wisdom to know the difference.

    I never mind anyone posting a link to anything, stupid or otherwise. We can always choose to ignore it. And I don’t think anyone was telling you not to post links, Georgia. They just gave their opinion of the sites. And post as many song parodies as you like. I enjoy reading a lot of them. And again, it’s pretty simple to ignore them if one wants to.

    You’re always going to get more posts about subjects where there is a lot of disagreement. There isn’t much about RW. There certainly were enough posts about him in the first half of the 2012 season. I personally don’t post a lot of gushing posts about the Hawks, because I think this blog doesn’t need any more help in being overly optimistic. We have a good team, but a lot of spit can and will happen between now and February 2014. I fear the nuclear meltdown of this blog should the Hawks start the season off badly.

    P.S. Yes, I do see the irony in myself posting the Serenity Mantra/Prayer.

  65. MattandCindy,
    So you come back and she goes? That’s got to be tough. It sure puts some of these hissy fit arguments here lately in perspective. Thank you both for what you do.

  66. yankinta says:

    Here’s some facts to educate those that are Really high on Andrew Luck…..

    Fact : Luck played against the Easiest Schedule in the league last year.
    Fact : Luck had THE WORST (Worse than Weeden) Adjusted Interceptions in 2012. Total 30 Interceptions. This guy is not on the same level as RW or RG3.
    Fact : Colts had 13 new starters on 2012 team. Which means it’s not the same team as the one that lost 14 games the previous year.

    My Sources
    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/adjusted-interceptions-2012

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2012/

  67. SandpointHawk says:

    Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick? Well Mr. Wilson of course…

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/103810/forced-to-choose-between-top-young-qbs

  68. SandpointHawk says:

    Look who’s hanging with Darnell Dockett….yeas that Darnell Dockett of Matt Hasselbeck fame…

    http://www.azcardinals.com/videos-photos/videos/Darnell-Docketts-Jet-Ski-Ride/0f2ec6b0-782d-4e15-b82c-c9f758762a98

  69. Dukeshire says:

    Why do you hate Andrew Luck so much? If you’re trying to counter the national sporting press, that’s a battle you can’t win. But it’s unreasonable to imply or flat out say Luck isn’t a good QB: he is. Only time will tell what his career will become, but honestly, knocking him down doesn’t make Wilson better. Wilson’s get it handled. lol

  70. bbnate420 says:

    yankinta, thanks for the adjusted interception stat and link. It was very interesting. BTW, RW had 12 adjusted INTs. I agree with you that Luck is overrated thus far, though I think he will be a good QB. I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up out of nowhere though. You’re not getting anyone to bite.

    P.S. The Colts played the schedule with the worst opponent winning percentage. That’s not necessarily exactly the easiest schedule. You haven to look at where and when they played teams. Plus, a 6-10 team isn’t automatically worse than a 8-8 team IMO. Your point overall is valid though. They were certainly helped by having a weak schedule.

  71. bbnate420 says:

    How is it unreasonable to say that Luck isn’t a good QB? It’s definitely subjective. It’s not unreasonable simply because you disagree. There are plenty of stats that suggest he wasn’t a good QB last year, from QB rating to more advanced stats like DYAR and DVOA. The dude only completed 54 % of his passes. He had under 7 yards an attempt. He threw 18 INTs and fumbled the ball 10 times. And as yankinta said, he had 30 adjusted INTs. That’s most in the NFL.

    I know that you don’t value statistics, but that means that you rely simply on your subjective analysis of his play. So I don’t know how you can say it is unreasonable for someone else to have a different subjective view of Luck? The objective evidence doesn’t really support your claim.

    P.S. I think that Luck will be a good QB and was good for a rookie. I just don’t think he was in the same class as RW or RG3. He is severely overrated in the media IMO.

  72. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire, I do not hate Luck. I just can’t stand the Media hype cuz most average fans totally buy into it. I consider myself a lot more knowledgeable than an average fan and I never buy into Media Hype. My argument is based on FACTS. You cannot dispute these facts…..

    bbnate420, I didn’t bring it out of nowhere, I read this article by Grantland.com where they were choosing the best QB of the 4 young QB’s. I just wanted to share some facts. I would like to educate most fans on this blog as much as I can. I would welcome/appreciate some facts based educations from others as well…. :)

    Yes, you’re right, Dukeshire is unreasonable to say we’re unreasonable just becase we do not buy into Media Hype on Andrew Luck. Is this the first time we agree on something? lol, :)

  73. bbnate420 says:

    yankinta, no, it’s not the first time we’ve agreed. I just don’t always post when I do. It does feel kind of strange to be defending a yankinta/ACIB position.

  74. Dukeshire says:

    yankinta – That you for capitalizing the word facts. I might not have been able to understand you otherwise…

    My condescension aside, your point about the media hype is my point: cherry picked facts will not change the perception. And had I thought out my post more thoroughly I would rather have said that attempting to do just that is unreasonable. I did not say however, you were unreasonable because you didn’t buy into the hype.

    bbnate420 – Please see my above sentance about having thought through my previous post’s wording.

  75. Dukeshire says:

    bbnate – Agreed. Mostly because they’re so belligerent with their opinions (at least for me).

  76. yankinta says:

    lol, belligerent?? lol nah, maybe I’m a bit more defensive cuz I’ve met some ignorant fans that like to call me names on this blog…..

    I did not cherry pick these facts. I chose these facts because most fans were/are not aware of these facts. Which includes you and bbnate420, I’m assuming. I am only attempting to bring these facts to light, especially because they help my case about my analysis of Andrew Luck. :)

  77. chuck_easton says:

    yankinta,

    What people are trying to say is twofold.

    1. If you are trying to convince all of us Seahawk fans that Wilson is a better choice to be Seattle’s starting QB, you are preaching to the converted. Even the most diehard opponents to Wilson starting the season last year (myself included) are all in.

    2. If you are attempting to convince the main stream media that Wilson is the better QB, well good luck (pun intended) with that. Media types have to write to the masses. The masses outside Seahawk land believe it is really only a three man competition between Luck, Griffin, and Kaepernick as to who is the better young gun. Wilson is thrown into the conversation but he is the underdog that is playing ‘way above his petigree’ in the eyes of the average national fan.

    This is why most fans outside of us diehards still think Wilson is only a running QB and that he’s going to get killed this season when people figure out how to stop the read-option.

  78. Dukeshire says:

    You didn’t cherry pick but you chose only them specifically? lol

    And yes, belligerent. Generally when you’re making a post, it’s done aggressively and fairly combatively. Which is fine, everyone has their own style.

  79. yankinta says:

    chuck_easton, you got it all wrong….I am trying to do neither.

    All I am trying to say is, Luck is not on the same level as RG3 or RW. Yet he’s the most hyped up QB that I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. It annoys me to see that average fans buy into the hype. It annoys me even more when JAWS’ QB Analysis (garbage), recently said that Luck did better in 2012 than RW or RG3.

    Yes, I’m trying to give my fellow Seahawks fans some facts based education, since I would welcome/appreciate some facts based education from others as well. :)

  80. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire, did you know that Luck had the worst Adjusted Ints in 2012 (30 total INTs) before reading my post? That it’s even Worse than Weeden?

  81. Ha. Wilson “Kaepernicking”. Funny. I hope Russell gets the last laugh in the NFC West this year.

  82. Some predictions for training camp and the coming year…

    1) Bruce Irvin will lead the team in sacks from the Sam LB.

    2) Carpenter will dominate at left guard.

    3) McQuistan will lose his job at guard and take Breno’s job at right tackle, improving the position.

    4) Golden Tate’s receptions will decline dramatically while the overall passing attack improves.

  83. montanamike2 says:

    Taunting, i love it.
    This is why most fans outside of us diehards still think Wilson is only a running QB and that he’s going to get killed this season when people figure out how to stop the read-option.

    Hit it on the head again Chuck. I have to confess that when Mora was throwing players under the bus from left to right on a weekly basis, i
    was on the suck for luck side. Do you know how long it’s been since i owned Madden!!!! I’m glad i was wrong but only time will tell who is the bust. Luck may improve or regress.

  84. Dukeshire says:

    yankinta – I did not. But I do tend to visit sites that feature Xs and Os as opposed to statistical analysis, so it’s unlikely I would have stumbled across it.

  85. chuck_easton says:

    yankinta,

    And again, what you are saying isn’t being heard by your intended audience.

    Nobody on here thinks Wilson isn’t the real deal.

    Luck may or may not be a HOF franchise QB when he’s finished his career, but he is the #1 overall pick and until he reaches JeMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf type bust performance levels he will always be in every discussion about the young QB’s.

    The mainstream media won’t be putting Wilson ahead of the other three any time soon. Let’s wait and see how the Sophmore season goes for Luck, Griffin, and Wilson, and the Redshirt Sophmore (this is actually his third year on the roster) year goes for Kaepernick.

    Until then try shouting your ‘FACTS’ at the nearest street lamp. You’ll have the same amount of success.

    If it makes you happy…Yes Wilson is wayyyyy better than Luck will ever be…he’s probably better at advanced calculus and quantum physics than Luck will ever be as well. There, did that make you feel better? Now can we move on?

  86. Wilson will be the undisputed king when he brings home a championship. That’s what will separate the Luck, RGIII, Wilson, CK logjam. Until then, average fans will continue to debate who is the best young gun. Average fans will continue to care what the national media perspective is, lol.

  87. yankinta says:

    chuck_easton, your argument is flawed. I give you several 1st overall QBs that are not in the Elite QB discussion. Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Matthew Starfford, Alex Smith, David Carr, should I go on?? Luck will not be in the Elite discussion in the 2+ years. That’s been my position and prediction for months….

    Again, my point is not RW is better than Luck. My point is Luck is the most Hyped QB (undeserving at that) that I’ve ever seen. Most uneducated fans buy into the hype and I wish that die hard Seahawks fan would be better educated on the facts. that’s all.

  88. wabubba67 says:

    It’s pretty tedious, yankita.

  89. yankinta-

    How do you factor in that Arians had Luck throwing the ball way too many times because 1). Arians is pass happy and 2). They had no running game? That is the fastest way to boost a young QB’s INTs and kill their passer rating.

    How do you factor in that the Seahawks and Redskins were able to manage their QBs because of the strength of their ground game? Lynch is very meaningful to the success of the Seahawks, as is Wilson. You can’t just cite your stats without discussing those thoughts.

  90. yakinta, may I offer a solution for you? Stop reading or watching any media coverage of Luck. You will be annoyed less often.

  91. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Agree with chuck and pabuwal. Not sure why one has to be so right all the time. I watched Luck at Stanford and watched almost every game last season. He did well on a team that only had two wins the year before. He didn’t have a running game and the defense wasn’t very solid as well. His coach had him throwing more than any other QB last year. Why? They were often behind and the coach likes to air it out. It’s impossible to say any player, let alone a QB will be a bust or HOF after one season. Did you happen to watch any of Elway’s rookie season? He was pretty bad, lots of ints as well. I’m thrilled we have Wilson and believe he will be the QB that finally gets us to the big game and wins it. Luck will not factor in that much at all.

  92. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Not that Luck will have a career as good as Elway. Too soon to say he will not be an elite qb after one season. That’s something that takes several solid years with a lot of wins.
    Wilson 12 wins(including playoffs)
    Luck 11 wins
    RG3 9 wins
    Kaepernick 9 wins(including playoffs)

  93. yankinta says:

    pabuwal, you make a very good point. I did consider that. Below are the facts.

    Weeden’s Adjusted INTs is 26 on 517 pass attempts. 5.1%
    Luck’s Adjusted INTs is 30 on 620 pass attempts. 4.8%
    T.Romo Adjusted INTs is 25 on 646 pass attempts. 3.9%

    RG3’s Adjusted INTs is 10 on 395 pass attempts. 2.5%
    RW’s Adjusted INTs is 12 on 397 pass attempts. 3.0%

  94. yankinta says:

    MoSeahawk12, your argument is flawed because Luck’s 2012 Colts team is not the same team as 2011 Colts team. 2012 Colts team has 13 NEW STARTERS.

    If Luck was the only new starter on that 2012 team, that I would be VERY impressed. But since I know that facts, I’m not that impressed, especially because he played against the NFL EASIEST schedule in 2012.

  95. Moving from 2-14 to 11-5 is a huge single-season jump – and Luck was the single significant change, and their biggest offensive threat. He may be a little hyped by the media (not that it’s his fault in any way) — but he deserves credit for his rookie year success in the W/L differential.

    Plus – I think it’s pretty clear these days that the media world has come around on RW, he’s all over the place online these days, and it’s always a positive story.

  96. Dukeshire says:

    Those numbers cited do nothing to consider pabuwal’s points.

  97. yankinta says:

    pdway, I almost agree with you except the previous Colt QB was not an NFL caliber QB. Where is Curtis Painter today? He’s on the street, not even good enough to be 3rd String QB on a NFL team.

    What do you think the Seahawks record would be, if Curtis Painter was Seahawks’ starting QB for 2012?? Probably worse than 2 – 14 team. I rest my case.

  98. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire, those numbers help my case that Luck is not on the same level as RW and RG3. He’s just wayyy over hyped.

  99. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Stats don’t mean much without wins. See Tony Romo, Cam Newton, Matt Stafford, Josh Freeman and another dozen or so QBs that missed the playoffs because they didn’t have enough wins.
    Please name another QB in the past ten years that directly impacted his team by leading them to elevin wins his first year, after that team only won two the year before. Plus nine.
    There are always a lot of new players on teams that go 2-14. They generally pick 1st, add lots of players and have an easier schedule. As pdway mentioned, the single season jump is huge and Luck was the one at the controls. Maybe this discussion should move to the Colts blog. You may have more Luck over there. Pun intended.

  100. yankinta says:

    MoSeahawk12, wow, that was a great point!! Yes, I did not factor in that most 2-14 teams had several new starters the following year since their draft picks would be higher than most teams. Yes, you’re right in that they generally have an easier schedule.

    The only thing I would point out is that Most 2-14 teams had an NFL Caliber QB that played on it. Read my previous post about Curtis Painter. and please answer me this, if Curtis Painter was our Seahawks QB in 2012, what would our record be? Better? Same? or Worse than 2-14 record?

  101. SandpointHawk says:

    Pabuwal like many of us, seems to have mellowed. In years past he would never let this go forward…But it’s all good.

  102. Dukeshire says:

    yankinta – Lol Well, yes, not arguing that. It’s just that you said you did consider his points, then posted non-relevant (to said points) stats.

    Look, I’m just busting your chops a bit. Hopefully you take it in the spirit in which it’s intended.

  103. MoSeahawk12 says:

    That’s easy, if the football gods hated us and Painter was our starter last year, we would have won more than two games as the team around him would have been better. Once Peyton was injured, the team seemed to pack it in that season. They had more talent than 2-14, but you are what your record says you are.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/photos/1302/nfl-biggest-one-season-turnarounds/1/

  104. well, look at that, a new article right on this point: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9482930/bill-barnwell-breaks-nfl-young-elite-quarterbacks

    pretty short list of QB’s who have improved their team’s records by 9 wins or more. and that list isn’t limited to rookies.

  105. yankinta says:

    MoSeahawk12, wow, really, you think that we would have get more than 2 wins with any QB off of the street?? I guess you don’t think QB is an important position let alone the most important position in Football.

    And, to add to my previous response to you,, it’s true that most 2-14 teams had several new starters the following year since their draft picks would be higher than most teams,, BUT 13 new starters is definitely on a high side. Unless you can show me a 2-14 team that had more than 10 new starters in the recent history. While you are there show me a 2-14 team that also had Multiple ALL Pro players (Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney) and other Pro Bowl players…. I seriously doubt that you can.

  106. I also spoke a little too soon w/r/t the Grantland link – got to like his ultimate conclusion as to the question raised at the start of the article.

    what a remarkable 3rd round pick. franchise making.

  107. MoSeahawk12 says:

    The QB is the most important position in football. That is the point. Luck won elevin games as a rookie. The previous years team won two games. His play at the QB position directly led to a nine win improvement. You can’t say that Luck isn’t good and that Jaws doesn’t know what he’s talking about as he played the position and gets the advantage of watching coaching footage that we don’t ever see. I’ll value the word and opinion of an expert that has probably forgot more about football than any of us have ever learned over a guy on a blog. Please do the same.
    Here’s a link to examples, regardless of what QB played the year before.
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/photos/1302/nfl-biggest-one-season-turnarounds/1/
    and other areas you can go discuss Luck, no Luck or whatever you want.
    http://www.stampedeblue.com/
    http://blogs.colts.com/category/colts-blog/
    http://www.coltsauthority.com/
    http://www.coltsgab.com/

    Enjoy and you’re welcome.

  108. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Great read pdway. That pretty much sums it up. Thank you for posting.
    Here it is again.
    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9482930/bill-barnwell-breaks-nfl-young-elite-quarterbacks

    And now back to Seahawks football!

  109. MattandCindy says:

    PHXHawk- I appreciate it. It’s nice to know that there are still people who realize that, whether they agree with the reasons or not, there are still men and women dying for our rights…..like the right to unload on the Insider blog.

    And she didn’t leave right when I came back…believe it or not, the U.S.M.C. is pretty gung-ho to get you spousal time when they know she is also enlisted.

  110. pdway–Great link! I too think RG3 deserved his ROY award, and was, over the entire season, better than Wilson and Luck. However, like the writer, I think Wilson will be the best of the bunch next season, partly due to his supporting cast, and partly due to his own SuperHeroness (is that a word?!).

    I think of all of them, Wilson is reading defenses the best/cutting down on turnovers. Kaep, Luck, and RG3 are all going to be great qb’s, IMO.

    Strength of schedule will impact these guys a lot, but I think Wilson is ready to destroy the best of the best, not so sure about the others.

  111. doubledink says:

    STTBM,

    Well said,
    As for this year, I think the sad truth and difference maker for the Hawks is a tougher road schedule than the Niners. I hope I,m wrong though.

  112. GeorgiaHawk says:

    BTW- My links that I post are mostly links that I perceive Eric wont post, because I don’t want to pre post him on this blog.
    Believe me that if I wanted to I could post all Erics links before he could if I wanted to.
    But out of respect for Eric I don’t.
    That’s why I mostly pick links from other sources, and that’s why some takes shots at me.
    Remember I live on the East coast. I get most of the links before you all wake up.

  113. In the photo from the “grantland” link you can clearly see that Russell Wilson is in fact taller than RGIII! He’s been sandbagging us all along with his listed height.

  114. sluggo42 says:

    Good lord this thread has to be the most boring thread of all time. Who cares about Luck really?
    Yanker, it’s good you think he sucks, what will you say next year? I told you so? Or , I guess I was wrong…
    I actually skipped over most of this thread….

    We should put a moratorium on this site till training camp opens… Right now it’s circling the sewer line sheesh…

  115. “We should put a moratorium on this site till training camp opens… Right now it’s circling the sewer line sheesh..”

    Yeah, but what else we got? Mid-season baseball . . . .

    Summer is the dead zone for sports unless there’s an Olympics or World Cup.

  116. Georgia–If you are referring to my comments regarding your posted links, it wasnt personal at all. I will repeat; its great that folks post links, all relevant links are welcome here–at least by me. My only beef is with Bleacherreport and FieldGulls, two blogs that flat stink, in my opinion.

    If you took that to be a personal attack, or a complaint against you, I am sorry; that was not my intent at all. I just cant help myself when someone says one of those sites is great, I just have to open my big fat mouth…

    sluggo–Dude, you always have the option of not participating in any discussion–or part of a discussion–that bores you. Personally, I would like a moratorium on people who only comment to say how lame a thread or comment or argument is. Either participate and post an opinion, or dont…but dont comment just to say how bored you are with everyone else’s discussion; now THAT is lame.

    Just my two cents. You know youre usually one of my favorite commenters to discuss things with.

  117. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- Key words to live by-” In my opinion”.

  118. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Btw- I myself or any other from what I’ve read has never said bleacher report is great or even Field gulls, however that could be said of TNT too.
    Fact is to say these two sites flat out stink says more about you then the sites themselves.
    Sad.

  119. GeorgiaHawk says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma- How dare you post a fieldgulls link! You know that it flat out stinks don’t you? Lol.

  120. sluggo42 says:

    I guess the bickering is getting to me-

    One week, one day…

    But, ok here goes.
    I personally think luck will be a great player/QB.
    Whatever on the stats, he had to throw cuz the team has nothing else. He has a great arm, “from my view”. I think yank is tripping and obsessed with his claims about how bad luck is. I don’t obsess and grind stats, they can be twisted to suit your argument. I base my opinion on watching the guy make throws.

    I’m not going to get into the debate cuz I don’t care enough about the topic, that’s why I am bored with the topic of lucks abilities.

  121. chuck_easton says:

    Sluggo,

    To reference a famous quote:

    There are three types of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

  122. HonHawksLSB says:

    Russell Wilson’s face when the camera panned to him when Kaepernick won breakout Athlete on the ESPYs… Hilarious.

    I think he was legitimately mad but also shocked and disgusted at Kaeps ridiculous outfit.

    Go Hawks

  123. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    goergia, no one has to read it. i thought it was better than most. funny thing even the worst written articles have something in them. besides anything seahawks is better than nothing. gives me something to refine my thoughts on.

    seriously thou georgia your panties have been in a bunch lately, not that it matters thou. carry on,lol

  124. Soph slump? I think the biggest candidate would have to be rg3 or kap.

    They rely on the run more IMO (own running) and may be prone to defenses coming up with alignments to stop them while Wilson runs but isn’t a running QB.

    Tannehill, Luck, weeden, etc didnt have great seasons so how could they slump

  125. Kaepernick did not have a sophomore slump. Last year was his sophomore year. What he had was a rookie year in which his coach did not trust him to get off the bench, and a sophomore year where it took him half the year to win the starting job.

    Not that I have any problem with Kaepernick being named Breakout Player of the year. He got to the Super Bowl after starting only 10 games, after all. Good for him.

    But the truth is that Russell Wilson arrived as a top QB much faster than Kaepernick. It took Colin Kaepernick 8 preseason games plus 25 regular season games before he won the starting QB job. It took Wilson just 4 preseason games to become his team’s starter.

    Kaepernick has started 11 games and won 7.
    Wilson has started 18 games and won 12.
    My money is on Wilson to outshine Kaepernick this year.

  126. bbnate420 says:

    I don’t know why stats get such a bad rap on this site. Perhaps it’s due to people like yankinta/ACIB using them improperly? Do they tell the whole story? Certainly not. Are they basically useless if they’re not placed in the proper context? Yes. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t have a lot of value when used properly. They are something quantitative and at least somewhat objective that we can use to try and prove our points.

    Without them we are just arguing our personal scouting reports with each other when arguing about players. That’s fine, but I doubt you’re likely to sway many people with them. You’ll likely just argue until you’re blue in the face, which I guess is a big part of this blog. I’m not likely to be convinced about a player by someone giving me their opinion of the player simply from watching them. Not unless I’ve never seen the player, and I will take the opinion with a grain of salt.

  127. sluggo42 says:

    Agreed to a point Nate, but, lets use Troy Aikman for an example. Didn’t he suck and have bad stats after an entire year? He turned out ok didn’t he? I have watched football for over 50 years, so I have seen the good and the bad. Luck is pretty good, and throws a good ball, and makes reasonable decisions so far, especially considering having a pretty weak team.

    I’m not ready to anoint him as the next coming of Payton manning, but I don’t see a colt McCoy either.

    You are a stat guy we know, and you make a good use of them to illustrate your points for sure. I’m more of a gut feeling kinda guy, and I’ve made a lot of good calls over a lifetime with that. So, while I certainly accept some stats as a guide, I don’t limit myself with them either…
    You are like Spock, I’m more like Kirk, but better looking lol….

  128. vichawkfan says:

    Honhawk. Lol. Totally agree. More fuel to the fire.

  129. bbnate420 says:

    I’m not saying that it wasn’t impressive to go from 2 to 11 wins, but it is overrated IMO. It’s somewhat like when the Spurs went from 20 wins to 56 the next year. David Robinson was injured the year they won 20 and they added Tim Duncan the year they won 56.

    The Colts only won 2 games due to a massive string of injuries, with Manning obviously being a knockout blow. They played a tough schedule due to being a good team the year before. They then had a number of high draft picks and the weakest schedule in the NFL according to win percentage. They drafted immediate contributors like T.Y. Hilton, Dwayne Allen, Vick Ballard, and Coby Fleener. They also had some very important returning vets like Wayne, Mathis, and Freeney. Though impressive, the Colts going from 2 to 11 wins is not as impressive if placed into context. They had 3 wins versus teams 8-8 or better. The Hawks had 6 BTW.

    The running game wasn’t quite as bad as people suggest. They were 22nd in yards and 23rd in average per rush. Not good by any stretch, but far from being the Cowgirls or Tardinals though. The defense was hardly good, but they were 21st in points allowed. Not as horrible as some suggest.

  130. bbnate420 says:

    Sluggo, I don’t disagree. And I’ve said that I think Luck will be a good QB and was good for a rookie. I just don’t think his year was as impressive as RG3’s or RW’s. I also think he is over-hyped. I think the jury is still out on him for sure. The jury is still out on all 4 young QBs mentioned actually. I don’t see RW having a sophomore slump due to his skill and preparation, but you have to prove it for more than one year to me.

  131. I think any CB is made better with a guy like ET at FS. That said, I think Sherman is an All Pro with or without ET. Again, his life is much easier with ET though. You can’t pay everybody, but those are two guys who must be kept. If that means losing some players who can’t say they are the best or almost the best in the NFL at their respective positions, then that’s the way it, unfortunately, will go.

    pabs made one of the best posts I’ve ever read from him at 12:14 p.m. earlier today. I agree.

    While Wilson tied the Manning TD record, Luck broke his yardage record (rookie records in both instances).

    If we look at the rookie numbers of Manning – he threw 28 INTs as a rookie, yet didn’t turn out too bad.

    Why is it either/or with Wilson and Luck? I don’t get that. Both are great and if I could start an NFL franchise with any current player in the league they would be my first two choices. If I got the third pick in the draft, I’d be mad because I may not get one of those two.

  132. If the 4 Quarterbacks of the apocalypse had swapped teams who changes that teams record? Would Seattle’s record have suffered due to Luck at the helm? It’s pure guesswork but I think we would have been just fine.

    The Colts had the least talented team of the bunch followed by Washington. Have to say Seattle would be next and that is entirely due to SF’s monster O-Line.

    I’m a total homer and I absolutely love RW but I’m not blind to the point where I have to knock down Luck to raise up Wilson. Wilson will rise up all on his own & he has a better team to do it with.

  133. raymaines says:

    I’ve been reading Carolina Panther blogs again…

    It seems they have little or no depth on the D-Line and they fade at the end of physical games, then the pass rush falls off and that exposes their weak secondary.

    They have fair to good receivers and talented runners but the right side of the O-Line can’t pass protect, and Cam Newton is slow progressing through his reads.

    Sounds like a match made in heaven doesn’t it? Go ‘Hawks!

  134. Aikman never had good stats – or should I say GLOWING stats, but hey he sure won a lot of games and handled a game well and knew how to take advantage of mistakes that the defense would make.

    that said I never liked him and would get very angry when people would say he was one of the best of all time

  135. Aikman like P. Manning had the personality of dry toast. What Troy did have was a great O-Line and Emmitt Smith’s gaudy numbers prove that out. Never felt Emmitt was all that.

    raymaines, Carolina did add DTs Star Lotulelei & Kawaan Short as their first two picks. That’s a pretty good addition of depth there.

  136. Not taking away anything form Aikman there. You don’t get 3 superbowl rings as a chump QB.

  137. bbnate420 says:

    It doesn’t have to be either or, but some people just plain don’t agree that Luck is one of the top 2 QBs to start a franchise with. I would definitely take RW and RG3 over Luck. I’d probably take a couple others before him too. You don’t have much besides your subjective scouting report of him to back up your opinion. Which is fine, but I don’t understand how you can’t understand that some people don’t think he’s good.

    Yards is the most overrated QB statistic IMO. It’s emblematic of a useless statistic. It can simply be the product of throwing the ball a lot and being a team that is behind a lot. Both were true of the Colts. If you’re only going to complete 54 % of your passes then you better do a lot better than 6.98 yards an attempt in my book. He had 30 adjusted INTs. He fumbled the ball 10 times. That’s pathetic. He was a turnover machine in 2012. RW’s adjusted INTs + fumbles = 17. Luck’s adjusted INTs + fumbles = 40. TDs, INTs, completion percentage, and yards an attempt are the most important QB stats IMO.

    And saying that he had no running game is simply not true. 22nd in yards and 23rd in yards an attempt. Almost 30 more yards a game than the Tardinals. It’s not good, but it’s not “no” running game either. And he had plenty of targets to throw the ball to. Wayne, Hilton, Avery, Allen, and Fleener. We all know about Wayne. It could very easily be argued that Hilton had better stats than any WR for the Hawks. And yes, I am looking at targets and not just yards.

  138. bbnate420 says:

    Can it be a picture of a Dolphins hat?

  139. DanielleMND says:

    Don’t rush Clemons back, but if he’s truly ready to go Week 1, what a boost that would be. He doesn’t even need to start at first, he can just be situational.

  140. Practice time is almost here, and so far nobody’s got drunk and run their car off the end of the ferry, trashed the lobby of some hotel, or got in a fight with the entire Tukwilla police dept, so, so far so good…

  141. SandpointHawk says:

    Knock on wood…

  142. yankinta says:

    Wow,, MoSeahawk12, it’s your prerogative if you want to BOW down to JAWS because he used to play Football and believe everything he say. I doubt that most of us Die Hard Fans do the same. We use our own brain to form our own opinions based on what we learn are facts and not believe everything someone talking head on TV says. I have to say, you really sound like an amateur.

    You also sound like of slow since you want me to go write on Colt’s Blogs…. Try to get this. I’m not an Andrew Luck fan. I’m saying he’s not that good. You on the other hand is an Andrew Luck fan, therefore you should go join other Colts fan and leave us Seahawks Fans in peace…..smh

  143. yankinta says:

    sluggo42, yes, I will own up, if Luck turns out to be better than RG3 and RW in 2013. But I seriously doubt it. He will not be ranked in the top 10 or top 15, although he’ll be playing against the league’s 4th easiest schedule in 2013.

    Are you gonna own up and say, you were wrong about Luck and that I was right all along??

  144. yankinta says:

    For the record, I did own up when I was wrong about Matt Flynn’s trade value.

    But I was also right all along, when I thought RW was the REAL DEAL, from DAY ONE, and jumped out of my couch in joy, when we picked him with the 75th overall pick.

    I was the first one to say Seahawks should go after Antoine Winfield for our Nickel CB (in the beginning of FA Period),, when people called me names and said he’s too old, not realizing the dude had almost 100 tackles last year…. I think that we now have the best Nickel CB in the NFL. We will see if I’m right or not, but I am confident, if we are to go to Super Bowl, we cannot have a weak link in our Defense (nickel CB)!!!

  145. sluggo42 says:

    Yanker, absolutely!

    I the Luck turns into a sucky duck, I will climb mt Rainer and scream from the depths of my bowels…. “Luck SUCKS,”

    Aight?

  146. sluggo42 says:

    But he is no David Carr…

  147. yankinta says:

    sluggo42, No Way,, that’s not what you and I are in disagreement for… My whole point was Luck is wayy over-hyped. I think he will be an average QB. But he was not, nor he will be at the same level as RW or RG3.

    I believe RW is and will be a top 5 QB. I think RG3 can be top 10, if he’s healthy. I believe Luck will be lucky to be in the top 15. We’re talking about QBR and Passer Ratings. Not meaningless total yards or attempts.

  148. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Ok,

    I apologize, I will try not to get my panties in a bunch anymore.

    As for this Luck debate, My opinion is that Luck will be very good.

  149. yankinta says:

    GeorgiaHawk, very good means top 15? top 10? top 5??

  150. GeorgiaHawk says:
  151. raymaines says:

    “We use our own brain to form our own opinions based on what we learn are facts and not believe everything someone talking head on TV says.”

    Just a reminder that Jaws used his own brain to form his own opinion of Andrew Lucks abilities.

    I don’t think any of us on this blog will ever really know how good Luck is or isn’t. We’ll know how many games the Colts win, and how many yards and interceptions he throws, and his QB ratings but that’s not the whole story.

    I saw Luck on TV maybe two or three times in college and twice last year. Jaws has watched every snap Luck has ever taken and knows what to look for when he sees them, so at this point I’m going with whatever Jaws says, at least until Yakinta tells us how or why his credentials are better than Jaworski’s. It’s perfectly OK to come to a different conclusion, and God know Yakinta might be right, but it’s totally chump to write off someone with Jaworski’s experience as just one more TV talking head.

  152. yankinta says:

    raymaines, How do you know JAW watched Luck’s every snap?? Do you have this knowledge first hand or is this one of your ASSumptions?? Maybe you didn’t realize but JAW has a team of people at ESPN supporting him full time. Now you sound like an amateur??

  153. yankinta says:

    GeorgiaHawk, you and I should definitely talk/chat after 2013 NFL Season is over. I really look forward to it. :)

  154. montanamike2 says:

    I think Luck will be good, even near the top in a few years, maybe…
    RW is already there but i’m not going to preach to the choir. I think the riskiest player is also the best physically in RG3 but i don’t think his knees hold up for long. I think that out of all the young QB’s each one is on the team they should be on. Kaep is a young exciting player too but doesn’t seem to read after his first look, he’s physically gifted too but i’m very happy with who we got.

  155. yankinta says:

    montanamike2, I totally agree with the second part of your comment. I am too extremely happy we got RW, because I think he will be a top 5 QB for the next 10+ years.

    However, I guess we disagree on our opinion of Luck. I think he will be a top 15, at best, in the next several years…

  156. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Hey Yanker, when you attempt to criticize someone with an opinion other than yours, please learn how to write and or speak.
    Your quote. “You on the other hand is an Andrew Luck fan.” The proper grammer there would be are. What you want to say there would have been you are an Andrew Luck fan. Which I’m not, just it’s been proven year after year, that you can’t determine if any player, let alone a QB will be bust, average or HOF after one season.
    Yep, you are much smarter than Jaws and everyone else. You bring more facts and have the most football knowledge ever. Get over yourself. Speaking of amateur…how’s that mirror?

    People don’t agree with you often. They are not any less a fan than you.
    Make sure you always let everyone know that you were the first to say this or predict that. It’s called being a know it all and you don’t!

  157. yankinta says:

    lol, dude, I was just stating my opinion of Luck., you’re the one that started attacking me because you disagreed. kind of childish if you ask me….

  158. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Welcome to the club raymaines. It’s definitely amateur hour here.
    Yank quote-“Do you have this knowledge first hand or is this one of your ASSumptions?? Maybe you didn’t realize but JAW has a team of people at ESPN supporting him full time.”
    It’s called his job as in he’s a professional. Get’s paid to discuss football on TV. His team are paid experts that are also paid to support him with stats, facts and videos. They work in football everyday. Not at a fast food place.
    What are your qualifications again? Besides you can capitalize ASS in assumptions to let us know you are. What will you do when daddy forgets to pay the internet bill? Or when middle school starts back up?

  159. yankinta says:

    lol, so the attacks continue…. keep it up, you are making me laugh…

  160. montanamike2 says:

    How many hours until training camp?

  161. The guy who called someone’s opinion an ASSumption is complaining that he’s getting attacked. Nice.

  162. yankinta says:

    mocarob, lol, yeah, I’m nice like that. But you should always read the entire comments/back and forth,first,,, before jumping to conclusion…. :)

  163. Has everybody already discussed the signing of 9ers LS Kyle Nelson and cutting of Charlie Martin back on the 11th? Does Clint Gresham really need the competition, because Martin did actually play some. Gives Bates maybe a little better shot. Wonder if Bates will be pretty good on STs?

  164. bbnate420 says:

    Yanker, you never came on here and owned up to being massively wrong about the Flynn trade that I remember. Feel free to link the post where you did. You never said anything about RW being great from day 1. In all likelihood, since I think it’s about a 95 % probability that you are ACIB, you were calling him a worthless midget through the Dolphins game. Then you were forced to crawl back into your hole. Your overcompensation is sad and transparent.

    Dude, you constantly insult the other members on here in your posts. At least implicitly. Maybe you’re so full of yourself that you don’t realize? Quit with the playing the victim act. And yes, I have attacked people on here too. But I don’t try to play the victim or woe is me when someone attacks back.

  165. yankinta says:

    bbnate420, dude I don’t have to prove myself to you. You can go and search for those posts if you’d like. I never attacked anyone or called names to those that didn’t deserve it.

    Maybe you should show me a post where I attacked someone first,,, I seriously doubt it.

  166. yankinta says:

    As for disappearing from this post sometimes,, well, that’s because most discussion here bores me,, most of the bloggers here are amateurs….. including you. I only come back because some of the bloggers here are very knowledgeable and I enjoy reading their posts…..

  167. bbnate420 says:

    “Wow,, MoSeahawk12, it’s your prerogative if you want to BOW down to JAWS because he used to play Football and believe everything he say. I doubt that most of us Die Hard Fans do the same. We use our own brain to form our own opinions based on what we learn are facts and not believe everything someone talking head on TV says. I have to say, you really sound like an amateur.

    You also sound like of slow since you want me to go write on Colt’s Blogs…. Try to get this. I’m not an Andrew Luck fan. I’m saying he’s not that good. You on the other hand is an Andrew Luck fan, therefore you should go join other Colts fan and leave us Seahawks Fans in peace…..smh”

    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2013/07/16/morning-links-the-scarcity-of-shutdown-corners/#comments#storylink=cpy

    There you go, fool.

  168. bbnate420 says:

    Yankster, most people here know you are ACIB, admit it!!!!!!

  169. yankinta says:

    lol, don’t know who that is, and I’m done wasting my time on you. take care…

  170. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Yes bbnate420, it’s very similar in style to ACIB. Not quite as obnoxious, but close. It seems some of us have a very high opinion of themselves and if anyone even remotely questions that, they are dropped in the all insulting pile of amateur. Ouch, burn what an insult! I mean to be a non professional football writer on a free blog. I can’t thank of anything more damning that that. As stats go, I’d say 99.9% here do not get paid to write and therefore considered not professional, or as it goes….amateur. Noooooooooo!!!!
    Training camp soon. Thankfully, we should have additional content to discuss.

  171. edstang45 says:

    wow it’s brutal in here, lets get this rolling and focus all the trash toward the rest of the NFC West……

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