Seahawks Insider

Wilson faces more pressure than other young QBs?

Post by Dave Boling / The News Tribune on June 18, 2013 at 7:01 am with 51 Comments »
June 18, 2013 7:01 am

You probably saw most of the quotes from Russell Wilson last week at the conclusion of minicamp when Eric Williams asked him about concerns over a “sophomore slump.” This morning, ESPN’s Jeffri Chadiha advanced a theory that Wilson still has more to prove than others in the group of young NFL quarterbacks that flashed such promise last season.

Chadiha writes that Wilson has not had to face the scrutiny RGIII has in Washington, nor did he have to replace Peyton Manning in Indianapolis, as did Andrew Luck, nor was his starting role as pressurized as Colin Kaepernick’s in San Francisco, when he was tossed in midseason for Alex Smith. Fair points.

Chadiha quoted an unnamed NFL quarterbacks coach who cited the Seahawks’ strength of defense and rushing game as a contributor to Wilson’s success. Absolutely.

“Now Wilson gets to find out what life is like as a burgeoning superstar … it’s a little different when you’re taking snaps with that label attached to your back,” Chadiha wrote. “Suddenly people don’t rave about you when you’re merely efficient and managing a game (which is a good part of what Wilson did last year).”

The flaw in that assessment is that Wilson only got better last season as the pressure compounded. More importantly, though, Wilson was asked, and will continue to be asked by Pete Carroll, to be “merely efficient” and manage the game.

“Winning alone may not be enough to satisfy his critics anymore,” Chadiha writes.

My opinion: That’s missing the entire point of Russell Wilson, who has given no indication that collecting raves is in any way comparable to collecting wins.

At Seahawks.com, Tony Drovetto put together a short piece about receiver Charly Martin attending the NFL Broadcast Boot Camp during the break before training camp. It’s one of those programs the league has instituted to help enhance players’ post-career opportunities.  The best part is the replay of a mock play-by-play done by Michael Robinson of Marshawn Lynch’s history TD run in the playoff game against the Saints. He is quick to point out a “good block by the fullback.”

Danny O’Neil at 710ESPN Seattle reports on John Moffitt’s guilty plea to a misdemeanor disorderly conduct charge. Moffitt reportedly will pay a fine of $1,407 and his sentence of 24 months in jail suspended. This is an important season for Moffitt, a third-round draft pick who has started 16 games in two seasons and is in a fight for the right guard start with second-year player J.R. Sweezy. Other than starting jobs in question awaiting the status of injury rehabs, this is one spot that qualifies as a battle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Leave a comment Comments → 51
  1. Dukeshire says:

    Dave, I totally agree. “Winning alone…” is the *only* thing that matters. And BTW, did Griffin and Kap not also benifit from solid running games and capable defense? But that only factors into any discussion regarding Wilson, eh?

  2. raymaines says:

    I think RW is up to the task. In fact, I think all four of the young guys are up to the challenges they face.

  3. yankinta says:

    ESPN’s Mark Schlereth got it right. Colts will not make a playoff. The Hype on Luck will finally go away after this season. People will learn the truth,, that he’s just an average QB in 2-3 years…..

    RW will be the best QB from this 4 young QB class. Griffin will be 2nd and Kap will be 3rd. Luck will not be in the conversation after 2-3 years down the road…

  4. Dukeshire says:

    They’re not really in the same class; Kap was drafted in 2011. Regardless…

  5. HawkFromDay1 says:

    “Winning alone may not be enough… ”

    Is this person a professional sports journalist?

    Winning alone is THE ONLY way to silence critics. And critics who are NOT silenced by winning are morons! “You play to win the game!”

    Need more info on the relationship between winning and critics: just ask Donovan McNabb, Jim Kelly, Bernie Kosar, Boomer Esiason and Dan Marino – they probably have some insight…

  6. yankinta says:

    I didn’t say draft class,,, I’m saying young QB class meaning right about when they started playing regularly in the NFL…

  7. thursday says:

    “Winning alone may not be enough to satisfy his critics anymore”

    Lol what a moronic statement. Pretty sure the Seahawks and the 12th Man care only about whether he wins games and not some arbitrary biased critics’ opinions. And I’m sorry, if you still have something to criticize Wilson about after he/we go 16-0 (;p), I seriously doubt anyone will be listening anyway.

  8. montanamike2 says:

    It’s all about winning as a team, personal stats won’t get you rings. Yank this isn’t an attack but i think Luck will emerge in year 3. Rgknee was all hype before he even got drafted, and deservedly so but i think he has a shortened career in front of him. Wilson might not be everyone’s QB
    but he fits this team to a “T”. None of the rookies except Wilson has the leadership he has.

  9. RDPoulsbo says:

    Hrm….sounds like Chadiha doesn’t realize that FFL is not a real sports league. Where does ESPN find these guys?

  10. yankinta says:

    montanamike2, lol, I’m not that sensitive,, I don’t take it as an attack… You buy luck stock and I’ll buy RW stock. Colts had 4th easiest schedule last year, and this year, they have it just as easy if not easier…. If luck is the real deal then he should be able to put up above Average QB numbers….I highly doubt it but I guess, we’ll find out soon…. :)

  11. FleaFlicker says:

    Let’s just get this straight, a season Passer Rating of 100.0 is because he had a good defense? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe RW had ONE interception at home last year. Maybe that’s because of the running game? Whatever. Let’s also not forget the dude had all of six quarters of preseason to get prepared. And Doug Baldwin making a catch in AZ final drive, and Turbin not dropping a sure 1st and goal catch in SF and we are 13-3 last year. That comparison to Cam Newton is specious as well…Newton takes one look and runs…he’ll be done at the age of 30. RW can sling the rock like a real QB.

    Chadiha is in the summer slump. Maybe he’ll find something real about which to write once camps start up.

  12. sluggo42 says:

    Nothing to write about, so they come up with this drivel. How many more days? 32?

  13. Winning is everything, but if RW averages 200 yards per game, he won’t be considered elite. But I don’t see him doing that. Also, if you look at his stats from college and his rookie year, they are remarkably similar in terms of his great TD-INT ratio. He’s a very accurate passer and that’s what’s going to keep him at the top.

    My prediction is that RW and Luck will be great QBs/HOFers. Kaep and RGIII will play well for a few years, but at least one of them, like Vince Young and Daunte Culpepper, will have a short career after showing early promise.

  14. guiltybystander says:

    From what I’ve understood about Russell Wilson since loading up on info about him since he was drafted, the last thing this guy is going to worry about is external pressure from critical fans and media. Wilson is totally focused on football and winning, and the fact that there were veterans saying “We wanted to win this for Russell” about their rookie quarterback after the Atlanta game tells me the only people who really matter to him in this particular equation are all in.
    The fans can’t block for him and the media can’t catch his passes.

  15. chuck_easton says:

    What is Chadiha talking about when he says Wilson wasn’t under the intense scrutiny of the other three? Did he NOT see the outright war that was going on here? :)

    Oh, that’s right, this is a Northwest blog and we are nobody fans. That and the team plays in South Alaska, so of course Wilson had no pressure on him. Sure.

    If you want to rank the four as to the pressure of expectations I’d actually go like this:

    1. Griffin – East Coast spotlight. Hyped as the next BIG thing. OROY award winner. Serious knee injury. Has to prove the knee is sound and will hold up a full season.

    2. Kaep. Was that real or will defenses figure him out? Has to prove he is more than a one read and run guy. No matter how talented a QB is. No matter how strong their arm is. No matter now fast they run. IF they can’t read a defense Coordinators will be able to scheme to stop them (See Vince Young).

    3. Wilson. The pressure, in general, is on the whole team. Wilson is the face of the team. Anything and everything he does or doesn’t do this season will be examined, sliced, diced, questioned, debated, and generally picked to the bone.

    4. Yes #1 overall, but took a team from 1-15 to the playoffs. And the team around him wasn’t that great. This year’s version of the Colts is either on par, or slightly worse. Luck is the one of these four that could get by with being average and not take the big media hit.

    Finally, I agree with Duke. Kaep shouldn’t even be in this discussion. He’s entering his 3rd year not the second. The media talks as if last season was his rookie year as well.

  16. I like the man on many levels, and find him easy to root for, but I’m interested in success for the Seahawks, not just #3. I don’t really care if “Wilson wins” because of the presence of a strong running game and a strong defense. This year, if he has good success, folks will likely be able to point to an improved group of pass catchers.

    The Seahawks might be successful this year as a team? Fine with me.

  17. montanamike2 says:

    Offseason is boring…..
    I think Wilson’s IQ is off the charts, same as work ethic. I was only predicting that Luck will finally “get it” in a couple of years. Our guy has already lapped them all right from the start, so much so that the whole NFL has taken notice. I think Harbaugh is feeling the momentum turning as well and has excuses already prepared for the event that he doesn’t win the division. He talks about “cheaters”, but he’s the guy who would slash your tires the night before a game if he could win by default

  18. yankinta says:

    Canfan, what have you seen from Luck to make you believe that he’ll be a HOFer…. The Hype from National Media doesn’t count. You can’t tell me that he took a very bad team to 10 wins last year cuz 2013 Colts had 14 new starters compared to the 2012 Colts team, not to mentioned he played against 4th easiest Schedule last year, and still need to a ton of lucky plays to get that 10 wins….

    If you took away all of that then what have you got with Luck, other than Hype by National Media.

  19. SlickToxic21 says:

    Just prove ‘em wrong R-Dub! Should be a great year….Go Hawks!

    …and just to go back to a previous thread….for anyone that saw Kenny Easley play, would know that #45 deserves to be on our current Mt. Rushmore. Dude was an absolute stud! Shortened career, but still too good to leave off. Should be in the HOF!
    I would put Marshawn on the Mountain before I’d put SA there…Alexander had some great moments, for sure….but without the stud O-Line he had in front of him, he would’ve had considerably less yards and TD’s. Too often he just fell down when there wasn’t a hole. Good guy though, and talented..just not Mt. Rushmore worthy…IMHO

  20. CK, Luck and Wilson are the real deal. RGIII is too much of a fancy pants kind of guy. He can throw, he can run, but showboating is gonna get him lit up again (say hello to Mr. Ngata). Just my opinion.

    GO HAWKS!

  21. yankinta says:

    lol, I can see a lot Seahawks fan are also buying into Luck Hype by National Media without having seen nothing to back it up….it’s almost annoying,, smh..

  22. I would ask Chadiha if winning was the “only” thing for Joe Montana or Troy Aikman? Their stats don’t compare to the greats of all time, but those shiny Super Bowl rings speak pretty loudly.

    We can only hope that RW will take us to the promised land that many times. Once would be enough for me, for now…I’m ready to get spoiled like those privileged Patriot fans.

    Typical ESPN hack trying desperately to stir up some stuff by playing the role of contrarian. Colin Cowherd does it every day. Next time, Chadiha, use a little more imagination, be a little more creative.
    I know it’s hard when there is so little to dislike about Wilson, it just devolves into nitpicking.

  23. I don’t quite get BUF’s draft. Marrone picked EJ Manuel in the 1st (16th pick), signed him for near $9M over 4 yrs, and now he sits behind Kolb (and maybe Jeff Tuel). Kolb in injury-prone, so maybe they figure Manuel will play soon. Bills OC N.Hackett said Manuel needs to work on all parts of his game to become a better QB. “He’s a young man that’s got to work on a lot of things from footwork to progressions to plays to formations, everything. Defenses in the NFL are obviously a little different. He’s got to work on that too. He’s got to work on everything.”

    Are we really worried about RW?

  24. roddychops says:

    I hope “24 months in jail” is a typo.
    That’s a stiff penalty for pissing in a parking lot.

  25. chuck_easton says:

    roddychops,

    24 month suspended sentence. I.e. keep your nose clean or ELSE. It’s called the carrot and stick approach to justice.

    The carrot. We’ll let you off with a fine and a slap on the wrist that comes with no lasting criminal record.

    The stick. We have this ‘suspended jail time’ we are holding against you here. Mess up just once, step out of line even a milimeter, jaywalk, spit in public…anything and we will un suspend your sentence.

  26. dirtbiker_joey says:

    If you put together an all-time best Seahawks roster, how many current players would make the team? It’s a fun mental exercise. There are some guys who will probably never be surpassed (Largent, Walter Jones, Hutch, Cortez), but I think other guys on this current roster have, or soon will surpass Seahawk greats of the past.

    Would you take Wilson over Hasselbeck?
    Lynch over Alexander (or Curt Warner)?
    Mike Rob over John L. Williams (or Mack Strong)?
    Zach Miller over Mike Tice?
    Not sure any of the current receivers would make it over Largent and Galloway (or maybe Brian Blades, T-Jack)? Harvin hasn’t played a down yet, so we can’t really include him.
    As good as Okung is, he’ll never supplant Big Walt.
    Hutch, of course, is your left guard.
    Max Unger, is he better than Tobeck?
    I don’t think anyone would take Sweezy/Moffitt over Bryan Millard at this point.
    I don’t even know who I’d take at right tackle, Locklear, maybe? Certainly not Breno.

    Can you think of two better corners than Sherman and Browner?
    What about safety, Bam Bam, Thomas III, Easley, which two would you take?
    What about Bobby Wagner over Lofa or Keith Butler in the middle?
    Outside backers maybe a little light, but could K.J. eventually make the team next to Chad Brown, Tony Woods, or Terry Wooden?
    Sam Adams and Chris Clemons at DE, or do you take Jacob Green?
    Mebane next to Cortez inside, or do you go with Joe Nash?

    John Ryan is your punter
    Sorry, Hauschka, but Norm Johnson is our kicker.
    And, I think we just cut our best return man, but we’ll see how Harvin works out.

    Either way, it’s been fun to think about.

  27. LeePHilI says:

    I’ll bet the only one not worried about Wilson’s pressure is WILSON.

    He has a workman ethic which means that regardless of what faces him, he does the same job. He starts early each day, does his homework, shares info with his guys and repeats the process the next day.

  28. dirtbikerjoey–While I like your sentiment, I think John L. Williams was the best FB of all time, in all phases of the game. Mack Strong was also a FAR better FB than Mike Rob. Personally, I think you could choose Warner, Alexander, or Lynch and not be wrong. Warner had the most talent and could do it all, Alexander was absolutely electric and its most certainly wasnt mostly due to his blocking, and Lynch is as tough as it gets. I think my personal choice is Warner, because he was just so tough and shifty and fast, even after his horrendous and career-slowing knee injury.

    Hell, I would take Itula Mili over Zack Miller at this point, because Miller is making so much money and has basically been a glorified blocker, and he’s only been here a couple years, while Mili was here and busting butt for years.

    As for the WR’s, I wouldnt take a one of our current crop over a bunch of past Hawk greats, its all hope an potential thus far. Brian Blades, Largent, Engram..hell, even guys like Paul Johns, Paul Skansi, Mike Pritchard, Tommy Kane, and especially Darrel Jackson rank far higher on the list than Tate, Rice, Baldwin or Harvin. They each have one decent year and not a single 900 yard/8 TD season as a Hawk! PS Galloway only ran three routes, Im not putting him on my alltime list of anything positive.

    Defensive line?! Dont make me laugh. Even Mebane cant compare to Jeff Bryant and Joe Nash, who were warriors in the trenches for over a decade each. Our current lineman still cant match up with Jacob Green, or Michal McCrary, or Michael Sinclair, or God Forbid Tez!

    LB’s?! Please, Wagner may get there someday, but after one season he’s not ready to be anointed just yet. There’s a long list of LB’s to beat out, including Rufus Porter, David Wyman, Terry Wooden, Fredd Young, Chad Brown, Keith Butler etc..Wright isnt fast enough he’s never gonna be better than those guys.

    Secondary? Obviously Easley is the greatest D-back to play in Seahawks Blue, for everyone who ever saw him play (not counting his final year where he played despite failing kidneys). Chancellor is a fine player, but not even close to Easley’s level. And I would take Eugene Robinson and Dave Brown and Shawn Springs and even guys like Dwayne Harper before Sherman and Browner and Earl Thomas, because they all need at least another year to cement themselves near the top. Look up the career stats for Brown, Robinson, etc…Sherm and Browner have years to go before they match those.

    My pet peeve with THomas is that he’s a liability in run support and drops too many pics. He’s just too small to do everything, though he’s perhaps the best cover S in the game right now, and his potential is through the roof.

    Sam Adams was a DT.

    As for punter, Im going with either Rick Tuten, or Jeff Feagles. Ryan has had too many shanks or End Zone boo-boos when we needed him most.

    I know, its easy to look at our recent success and overvalue more recent players, but c’mon man!

    I must say I think our current crop is loaded with potential and is the most talented team we’ve ever fielded. But many of these players will leave and spend most of their career best years elsewhere; thats just how it works these days. Youre not gonna see DT’s or DE’s or Safeties stay here for 9-12 years, its just not how JS and PC–and most of the NFL these days–do business, and players chase the money.

  29. On Wilson, who cares what pot-stirring opinionated talking heads say? Wilson is an amazing player and leader, and fits this team to a T. We look poised to win for years to come, and to compete for championships.

    Comparing stats is fun, but its far from the whole picture. People still rank Luck ahead of Wilson because he did a lot with a little, and because he threw for a lot of yards.

    But he also threw a lot of picks, less TD’s than Wilson with far more attempts, and doesnt read a defense as well as Wilson, at least not yet. He also, as yankster points out, had one of the easiest schedules in the NFL and likely will again.

    Troy Aikman had a fantastic team around him, as did Montana. Montana’s surrounding starters on offense had a payroll higher than Seattle’s entire team. Hows that for competitive advantage?! Wilson is doing what he’s doing with a salary cap that levels things considerably.

    And who cares? If he brings us downfield in the fourth quarter for a chance to win the game every damned time and throws for 27 TD’s and about 10 picks a year, thats about as accurate and awesome as it gets! Those numbers will get you into the HOF over 10 years. You can keep the 4-5k yards passing, the 45 TD’s a year–I want to see less than 14 INT’s per year and a completion percentage around 65% and W’s rather than L’s!

  30. Heh, Charly Martin better be ready–he’s likely to be out of football by September, poor guy.

  31. rramstad says:

    Feagles was a fantastic punter. Probably team MVP one of those (bad) years.

  32. dirtbikerjoey is overvaluing current players, while STTBM is overvaluing former players.

    I do lean more toward agreeing with STTBM, but when you mention guys like Tommy Kane (the wife-killer)in the same sentence with Rice/Tate or put Eugene Robinson over Earl Thomas, you’re undermining your entire post.

    Kane was a project who never really panned out, and Robinson was only better than Earl Thomas at his peak (which lasted about three years). It’s like comparing Hass to Russell Wilson. We all know that Hass at his peak was better than Russell as a rookie. But Russell is probably going to eclipse Hass.

  33. I see what Dirtbiker is trying to do, I think. Take any former Seahawk in their prime and put them in training camp. How many current players would make the starting roster. I think STTBM is looking at players from a Seahawks career standpoint. Of course none of the current players would be an all-time career Seahawk – They just haven’t been here long enough. How many have even been with the team more than three seasons?

    The overall talent of this year’s team is better than any team the Seahawks have ever put on the field at one time. But only one individual player would beat out all-time Seahawk career greats: Sherman.

  34. Mebane can’t compare to Jeff Bryant?

    Really?

    Guess we live on different planets.

  35. OrrObb–Yeah, you get it. You pretty much have to have at least a couple awesome years and more than a a couple years as a Hawk doing very well to be considered as among the best Hawks at your position.

    Canfan–My point with Kane is that neither Rice nor Tate nor Baldwin have even two years as good as Tommy’s years with Seattle–yet. Kane was a very good WR on a team that had Blades and didnt throw the ball much, yet he still racked up 700+ yards and averaged over 14 yards per reception in his two years as a healthy starter. He got hurt the next year, and that killed his career as he lost his speed and agility. That he killed his wife would prevent him from being in the ring of honor or that sort of thing, but not from being one of the better WR’s Seattle has had for a brief while. He really was a fun WR to watch, and had more talent than the stats show.

    Eugene Robinson played 16 NFL seasons, 11 of them for Seattle. He had 57 career interceptions and had 100 tackles three times and more than 80 tackles 7 times. He had more than 60 tackles 10 straight years, and 13 times out of his 16 seasons. He also rarely got burned, and had more than 4 picks 5 times in his career. Also, he was a very nice man who did a lot for this community (even taking into account his arrest for solicitation while in ATL, the man shakes out as a very fine player and man overall).

    Earl Thomas has never had more than 67 tackles and has 10 picks in three years. He drops at least 5 picks a year. He also has a loooong way to go before he can be considered as good a Seahawk as Robinson, IMO. Potential?! You bet, but thats it so far.

    Even disregarding stats, I remember watching Robinson play, and he absolutely locked down the deep third for a decade and a half. He could also hit very well. Thomas, as I said, is a liability in run support and tends to get swallowed by any blocking attempt. I would love to see Thomas live up to his potential, but I would be shocked if a guy his size could last 10 years, let alone 16 playing at as a high a level as Robinson did.

  36. Bobbyk–Your memory must be faded pretty well. Mebane is great–for the first month or so of every season. Then his calf injury flares up and he’s simply a run stuffer. And somehow I cant see him plugging the run and still bringing in 4.5 sacks in his 11th season. Bryant was a stud, who could play both DT and DE. The game has changed since then. but yeah, so far Mebane doesnt come close to Bryants run as a Hawk, IMO.

  37. I apologize for being such an incompetent Seahawks fan…

    I’m sorry.

  38. Bobbyk–Who says youre incompetent?! Were most likely using different measuring sticks to measure those players. Besides, Bryant played DE a lot, if I remember correctly, and thus got to rush the passer from the outside, which Mebane rarely if ever gets to do.

    I just feel that Bryant and Nash dont get the credit they deserve. I dont see Mebane even making the impact in a 16 game season that Nash did for much of his career, but thats subjective and the stats can lie. What I remember most about Nash and Bryant was how solid they were every play, every year, for more than a decade. Mebane just hasnt shown me that solid, steady play; he’s up and down. For instance, until after the Pats game last year he was looking like one of the most dominant DT’s in the NFL,and TV guys even noticed, but after that his injury flared and he was nowhere near as noticeable.

  39. Dukeshire says:

    Th Robinson / Thomas comparison is not apples to apples. Their responsibilities at FS were vastly different. Thomas’ tackle totals would skyrocket if he played less cover 1 and if Seattle played a primary zone, as Robinson’s Seahawk defenses did.

    Stating that Thomas drops “at least 5″ picks a year is hyperbole. Last year no question. But until that repeats itself, it was an anomaly. Also is saying that Thomas is a “liability” in run support. That’s one o this comments that could be easily proven false watching footage, but over this type medium it’s almost impossible. All I can say is that from a pure Xs and Os perspective, its a grossly inaccurate statemt. (I’m not trying to be rude: we’re all entitled to our opinions. But Thomas is one of the most sound tacklers on the team.)

  40. dirtbiker_joey says:

    So maybe I am a tad overzealous in my assessment of this year’s team. But, I am so excited for the upcoming season and need to fill the void until training camp starts.

  41. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Eugene Robinson over Thomas?

    I agree with Duke on this one.
    Thomas is one of the better tacklers on the team, and he directs his passion for the game, unlike Robinson who directed his passion somewhere else before the biggest game of his life.

  42. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I do agree with you though STTBM about taking Bryant over mebane, however not by much, imo.

    BTW- Alexander over Easley on the Seahawks MT. Rushmore is a disgrace.
    And so is Chadiha’s article on Wilson.

  43. Dukeshire says:

    dirtbike- That’s always a fun game. For me, safeties are Easley SS and Thomas FS. And at corner Sherman at LC and Brown at RC. Brown might be the most forgotten great Seahawk. He was a flat stud.

  44. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, not sure where you’re getting your stats from. ET had 98 tackles in 2011. He had 66 last year. Also, your use of tackle statistics for Robinson is problematic. Tackles weren’t an official NFL statistic until 2001, the year after Robinson quit playing. They were consistently kept from 1994-2001, but they weren’t yet official. There wasn’t uniformity in the process. Before 1994, the tackle statistic was even more suspect. The process is still far from being extremely accurate.

    “After we looked at five different statistics to judge offensive players, it’s time to turn the ball over to the defense and focus on the most common defensive statistic: Tackles. From 1994 to 2001 the statistic was consistently kept, but it wasn’t until 2001 that it became official.”

    “During an NFL game, a lot of things are recorded after every play. While it isn’t too difficult to see what down it is and which offensive player(s) touched the ball, it’s tougher to determine who made each tackle. Because this is all done in real time, rather than after the game, the player marked down isn’t always the player who made the tackle.

    There are typically a few statistical revisions made during the week between games, usually in regards to plays involving sacks and fumbles. Outside of these plays, the NFL doesn’t double check for incorrectly attributed tackles.

    Here at Pro Football Focus, all of our analysis is done after the fact from re-watching each play multiple times. We have frequently found situations where the player that was officially credited with a tackle was not the player who actually made the tackle. In fact, we’ve found occasions where the official tackle went to a player who wasn’t even on the field.”

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/04/03/stat-sheet-misconceptions-tackles/

    I think that Robinson was a very good/great player, but I’d have to take ET over him even at this early point in his career. I think ET will have the better career when all is said and done, provided he stays healthy.

  45. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, the stats I mentioned were from ESPN. After looking at Pro-Football Reference, I see that they have ET having 96 tackles in 2011. I’m not sure why there is a discrepancy. It is an official statistic now. According to the reference, he had 67 SOLO tackles in 2011. You didn’t add in his assists. You can’t really say that Robinson even had more than 79 tackles in a year if you don’t include assists, and this was in an era where they weren’t official. If you notice on the reference site, they don’t list assists before 1994. The just lump all of the supposed tackles together. I’m a fan of statistics, but you have to place them in the correct context.

  46. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I agree again Duke that Dave Brown was the most forgotten Seahawk great.

    He was part of the Stealer 75 Super Bowl, and he did nothing to disappoint us Seahawk fans when we got him through the expansion draft.

  47. GeorgiaHawk says:

    BTW- I would take John L. over any full back. Wilson over any QB. Lynch over any RB. Hutch over any Guard. Largent over any WR. Miller over any other TE. Jacob Green over any DE. Kennedy over any DT. Jones over any Tackle. Kevin Mawae over any center,(but it’s close). Sherman over any CB. Easley over any safety.

  48. Wilson holds the all time NFL rookie TD pass record!

    Why is that not mentioned when looking back on last season?

    If RG3 or luck had done that, would it have been ignored like it has for Wilson?

    And Wilson did it on a team that was dead LAST IN THE NFL in pass attempts!

    There would be ESPN and NFL network specials on it, if RG3 or Luck had done it.

  49. jawpeace says:

    I think I would take any member of the die hards over anyone we have on the line today. Though Mebane is very close to cracking the line up.

  50. bbnate–Exactly, stats are a tool that can be misused. I posted stats as a partial argument, as I had no time to expound further (I type 50 wpm). Funny thing is, I could find no stats for Jeff Bryant’s tackle totals at all. But the tackle totals are a piece of the puzzle and are not garbage. (I understand that high/low tackle totals for FS can mean many things, such as crappy talent around them, or playing on teams that went up by multiple scores so often other teams were forced to pass a lot, etc. etc)

    As for Thomas having 96 tackles his rookie year, I missed that. I was using Pro Football Reference, and must have scanned the solo tackles rather than total tackles, which is what I thought I was quoting. Thank you for pointing that out.

    Dukeshire is dead on saying the defensive scheme’s were so dissimilar as to make the comparison of Robinson and Thomas nearly apples to oranges. But they both played FS, and even as a generic DB, I take Robinson as the greater player at that position, because he played at such a high level for so long. Such longevity at such a level is nearly unheard of, and I dont see the undersized Thomas coming close to matching that. And he could still end up being a Bob Sanders unless he avoids injury.

    I watched Thomas drop more than 3 easy picks each of his years in the league, the last two especially. Last year I counted 5 missed picks with a few games still left before I gave up. As good a player as he is, I have also been frustrated by him being trucked by Gore among others, when in run support. While he is a willing and able tackler, his small size does in fact cost him in run support–Ive seen it with my own eyes. He also gets caught out of position when inside the box, and easily swallowed by blockers, and therefore blowing his assignment. If too many Hawk fans are blinded by homerism and cant see that, its not my fault.

    And Thomas was one of the few draft picks the Hawks have ever made that I was on record as hoping for. I love the guy. But after three years, he’s got a lot more to go to become the best FS in Seattle history, IMO.

    Georgia–Pretty lame, your comment on Robinson. I was disgusted by his mistake as well, but I do not believe it should tarnish the kind of man or player he was before and has been since. He deserves better than that.

  51. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, you’re certainly entitled to think that Robinson was better than ET. It’s subjective. I certainly can’t say with absolute certainty that ET is better. And Robinson does have the longevity over ET at this point. Overall, he’s had the better Seahawks career. But I believe ET will have the better career if healthy for at least 8 years or so. I would take ET right now over Robinson in his prime. ET’s range and coverage ability allow the Hawks to play the way they do on defense. He’s indispensable. Robinson did not have the same range IMO. So, I believe ET is the better player, but he hasn’t had a better career yet.

    I wasn’t saying that the tackle statistic is useless. Just that it has to be placed in proper context. Besides the fact that a higher tackle total doesn’t necessarily equate to better play, the collecting of the statistic has issues with accuracy. More so the farther you go back. At least it has been kept by the league after 2001. Before it was kept individually by the teams. There were no criteria that the teams had to follow. The totals are highly questionable. You likely won’t even find tackle statistics for any players before the 1980’s.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444897304578044610803692432.html

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