Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Can newcomers create pass rush?

Post by Eric Williams on May 18, 2013 at 7:16 am with 43 Comments »
May 18, 2013 7:16 am
Seattle Seahawks DE Cliff Avril poses for a portrait in the NFL Studio in Culver City, Calif., on March 19, 2013. (AP Photo/Ben Liebenberg)
Seattle Seahawks DE Cliff Avril poses for a portrait in the NFL Studio in Culver City, Calif., on March 19, 2013. (AP Photo/Ben Liebenberg)

Pete Prisco of CBS Sports takes a look at the most pressing need for every NFL team. Of course, for the Seattle Seahawks the most pressing need centers on how the team will create consistent pressure on the quarterback, particularly with the latest news that Bruce Irvin has been suspended for the first four games of 2013 after violating the league’s performance enhancing drug policy.

Prisco: “Can the signings of Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett compensate for the loss of Chris Clemons, who suffered a torn ACL in the playoffs?

Avril had a bit of a disappointing season for the Lions last year, which is why he didn’t come back. Bennett is coming off his best season, but neither of these two has the explosive speed that Clemons had. Bruce Irvin, a second-year player, is also in the mix. He does have the speed off the edge.”

Here’s my story on Irvin’s suspension.

Along with issuing an apology through the team, Irvin took to Twitter, using his Ipad to post a second apology, which you can view below.

Danny O’Neil of ESPN 710 Seattle writes that Irvin’s suspension is a reality check for the Seahawks.

Dave Dameshek of NFL.com predicts the Seattle Seahawks will be the No. 5 seed in the playoffs for the upcoming season.

Marc Sessler of NFL.com ranks Russell Wilson as the 11th best quarterback in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000200131/article/ranking-the-nfl-quarterbacks

The Washington Post has an interesting series on the pain NFL players deal with during and after their playing careers are over. It’s definitely worth a read this morning.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 43
  1. Jason Jones wasn’t a star by any stretch of the imagination, but this team really lost something (his push up the middle) when he went on IR. From that point on, the somewhat consistent pass rush we had went from okay to less than okay (i.e. not acceptable).

    Even with a healthy Clem – the pass rush after losing Jones was not good enough. In no way am I saying Jones was better or more important than Clem – just stating a fact that BOTH players were extremely important.

    Coming into this year, we don’t have either since we can’t fully count on Clem.

    I know we signed Avril and I like that. I really do. We also have Bennett but anyone with a partially torn rotator cuff scares me to death. When a team has to put a provision in the contract for games played that tells me the organization isn’t fully sold on the idea you’ll be counted on like most others and another injury (like the one coming likely coming for Bennett) scares me to death, as it seems Bennett is going to be counted on to provide the third-down push up the middle or passing situations that Jones provided last year.

    I like the rookies, Hill and Williams, but we’re kidding ourselves if we expect both of those two to come in as rookies in the NFL and play great. I am super excited for both of those two for 2014 after they have a year under their belt, but for now I’m a bit worried about DT if anything happens to Mebane. He’s our only rock/anchor in the middle right now (as Bennett won’t be a full time interior guy, at least I don’t see that).

    To Bruce Irvin – you f’d up, admitted it, and are moving on. Thanks for the apology, don’t do something like this again so you don’t have to issue another apology, and I look forward to seeing you back on the field when it counts in week 5. Keep in shape during your suspension and make the haters eat their words.

  2. Southendzone says:

    Interesting adderall article from about 6 months ago. There’s suspicion that all these “Adderall” positive tests are really for something like steroids, but since the NFL can’t say what it was, the players and agents leak out that it is Adderall for PR damage control.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2012/11/nfl_adderall_the_study_drug_isn_t_helping_football_players_do_anything_but.html

  3. HonHawksLSB says:

    Good thing we play 4 run 1st teams with WRs (aside from Crabtree) that are aging and struggle to create seperation especially against our corners. We should be fine with limited pass rush against Car, SF, Jax, and Hou. 3-1 or 2-2 worst case scenario.

    It also could serve this team well to eat a little humble pie early in the season after hearing all the Super Bowl talk in the offseason.

    Either way it is pretty clear that the hottest team come post season time wins it all which what we all desperetly want. I imagine a healthy pass rush just in time for the playoffs similar to the Giants run when the Pats almost went undefeated.

  4. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Good article from the Washington post Eric.

  5. Bruce Irvin seems like a likable guy. Tough upbringing, got a 2nd chance and for the most part has made the most of it. A lot of the guys on the team seem to have similar stories. I personally am happy to have such talented players on our roster.

    With that said, our leadership is partially responsible for this latest incident. It’s just too many cases of the same thing. I know, I know…players are ultimately responsible for themselves, and to some degree I agree, but in the end our leadership must convey the message with appropriate accountability measures.

    Athletes today are more delicate than ever. I understand trying to get an edge or paying a sport that requires the ultimate in athletic ability, but a lot more attention should be given or focused on the mental aspect of the game. Pete’s a pretty good psychologist and motivator but maybe they need more of those types to help players sort through things that will encourage them to make better decisions. No one athlete is above the rest, nor can they win a game by themselves. It’s a collaborated effort and sometimes your teammates have to pick you up when you don’t have that edge and sometimes they won’t.

    But the worst thing is when you take yourself off the field that’s non-injury related and could’ve been avoided. I had hoped after Richard Sherman’s deal, that every one would’ve been more cautious. It’s why I (like so many) was so disappointed yesterday and continue to be today.

    This team has been a remarkable assembly of talent. We all have pretty lofty expectations and rightfully so…WE ARE the best fans in the sport. I like Bruce and know he’ll get a fair chance once again. He’s gonna have to take all of this constructive criticism and draw inspiration from that instead of the Adderall. We’ll support him, encourage and yell out Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuce when ever he makes that impact play.

    But after 5 Seahawks going down for the same thing, I really hope they won’t let us down with this kind of stuff any time soon. Injuries I get, they happen…this kind of stuff should not.

    GO HAWKS!

  6. thursday says:

    The thing I don’t understand is why. College kids take adderall like it’s nothing and I definitely see the benefits for studying film and just overall focus. So when I say why, why are they getting caught? They know it’s not permitted by the NFL without a medical exemption so why aren’t they just trying for the exemption? INstead of basically gambling that they won’t be tested that week or whatever.

    On the other hand, I really don’t think the NFL should be suspending guys for adderall either.

  7. Seahawks22360 says:

    In this day and age, everyone takes some sort of supplement to gain an edge. Whether it be a pre-workout supp., recovery supp. Etc…. I really don’t see the issue. We’re not living in the past anymore and GODdell needs to realize that. Adderal is not a steroid or anything of that nature. I understand its illegal and the players should know better. But four games. FOUR GAMES for fricken adderal?!?! A player can get a DUI and be hit with less. What a joke! I look forward to Irvin coming back with a mountain sized chip on his shoulder. I believe the whole team will carry out the season with the same mentality. GO HAWKS!!!

  8. chuck_easton says:

    Thursday,

    Because it as are all ADHD medications a derivative of amphetamine.

    When used to treat ADHD the drug speeds up the part of the brain that in normal people allows them to concentrate and stay focused.

    Someone taking the drug that doesn’t have that problem with their brain function is just taking speed.

    Methamphetamine gives the same results. Someone on that drug is more focused, more alert and able to go for hours without fatigue.

    So should the NFL allow all amphetamines? Crystal, cocaine, ketamine?

    Adderrall not prescribed specifiacally f

  9. chuck_easton says:

    To treat ADHD is just another recreational drug like coke, crystal and Special K.

  10. That WA Post article made me appreciate Big Walt all the more – how many players could have his career and be alergic to pain killers?

  11. Did John Abraham ever end up signing with a team? Wasn’t TB after him?

  12. DreadHawks says:

    Great teams overcome adversity! We are a great team, this is nothing more than a hiccup. Too many chicken littles out there.

  13. Seahawks22360 says:

    Sp what if it helps players study more. Is it really that big of a deal? And to the people complaining about others without ADHD abusing it, cry me a river. If you are a professional athlete you’re going to try and get an edge on the opponents. Mental or physical. People only start talking crap when the player gets caught. Like I said they should know better. But a four game suspension is downright laughable.

  14. Macabrevity says:

    Going back to Jason Jones, guy had a monster sack up the middle last season, looked like something from WWF (or whatever it’s called these days) for the life of me I can’t remember who it was on, or find the vid for that matter. I do remember it was a game we lost, and I think I posted here that the sack alone made the game worthwhile and I didn’t care about the L at that time. Might’ve been the Hams, since I recall a few posts here were going all gloom and doom way too early.

  15. Nice post, Joreb.

  16. chuck_easton says:

    Not complaining at all. An NFL player can do what ever he wants.

    But they know the rules. Get caught pay the consequences.

    A violation of the banned PED list is an automatic 4 game suspension first violation and a 1 year for the second.

    Irvin knew the rules he chose to break them and got caught.

  17. chuck_easton says:

    And before anybody says that they should just make it all legal that’s great until a former player sues the league due to liver/kidney failure caused by the abuse of PEDs and the NFL should have known and tried to stop him.

  18. chuck – don’t be rationale on that last post. Lets find Piggy!

  19. Hawkboy says:

    I read (too lazy to look up the link) that the “Aderall” thing is not necessarily real. There’s a loophole in the new testing agreement that the league is not allowed to comment on the nature of the test results, meaning they can’t tell anyone what PED was found in the players system. But the players can say whatever they want. So, the player can test positive for HGH, the league can suspend him, but can’t say why, then the player says it was just Adderall (which has less of a cheater’s stigma) and the league has to keep it’s mouth shut. So, my uninformed/inappropriate guess is Irvin was trying to bulk up, to be better at defending the run and used a little chemical help and got caught.

  20. Shawn Merriman was one of the best defensive players on the planet when he cheated – when he got caught, he sucked, because he couldn’t cheat anymore.

  21. pabuwal says:

    This Defense has as many positive PED tests as they have blown 4th quarters in the past year.

  22. Seahawks22360 says:

    Sure sounds like a lot of you are coming down on YOUR hawks pretty hard. If you think we’re the only team with players taking “adderall,” you’re crazy.in sorry but I’m not in the same camp as those that are above gaining a competitive edge. Get with the times people. If its not one “PED” it will be another. Players will always find a way to get a leg up.

  23. jawpeace says:

    Well I always try to find the bright side, the silver lining in a dark cloud. The two things I thought of with the Bruce suspension were: 1. what HonHawksLSB said, we are playing four teams who’s strength is the running game. #2 Bruce really faded out during the later part of the season. Rookie wall? What ever it was as the season got longer his impact greatly diminished. So missing the fist four games of the year. Could help Bruce avoid another late season collapse.

  24. Also on the “bright side” is that Irvin will not count against the 53 man roster while he is suspended (my understanding). While it’s not that bright at least we get a longer look at someone who would have otherwise gotten the axe. Avril is sure going to get a lot of reps now.

  25. sluggo42 says:

    Four games without him playing infuriates me personally. Y’all can make all the excuses you want in trying to get an edge, but it’s crap to me. He has hurt the team by cheating, and it’s not ok by me. Him losing money doesn’t mean anything to me. The team suffers. Especially after last year with the others. It’s horse s—!

  26. GeorgiaHawk says:

    We could have taken DeCastro but what do I Know?

  27. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Let’s call a spade a spade. Irvin is a punk, however he is also a freak!
    Freak wins over punk any day in the NFL with regards to the Defense.

  28. Seahawks22360 says:

    Sluggo I agree. He should have known better. My beef is with the rule itself. It’s a joke.

  29. bbnate420 says:

    Georgia, he is a punk? Slow your roll, man. If making mistakes makes you a punk, then this blog is populated entirely by punks.

    Yes, the NFL cannot say what particular drug the player tested positive for. None of us really knows what they tested positive for. His statement suggests that it was Adderall, Ritalin, etc., but he could say it was anything he wants to. Every one of the Hawk players could’ve tested positive for anabolic steroids. We don’t know.

    With all due respect Chuck, comparing Adderall and methamphetamine is silly scientifically. Yes, they are both amphetamine derivatives. But methamphetamine is much, much, much stronger. Methamphetamine won’t help you focus or study. Have you ever seen someone on meth? Yes, they’ll stay up for 3 says straight, but their thinking is generally completely disjointed. Too much amphetamine ruins focus. Only small amounts of Adderall in normal people or generally larger amounts in people with ADD/ADHD will help focus. Of course the dose matters, but comparing Adderall to methamphetamine is akin to saying that 1 shot and 15 shots of alcohol will have the same effect on a person.

    And yes, I don’t think the NFL has any place in regulating the use of recreational drugs in it’s players. Unless they can prove Adderall really is a PED, then I don’t think they should be able to regulate it. And claiming that they couldm sue the NFL for it is a silly comparison IMO. They don’t have to prescribe Adderall to the players. The TEAM gave Easley all of those pain killers that destroyed his kidneys. That’s the difference. The players are claiming that the league had information about the dangers of concussions and hid the information from the players. There’s a difference there.

    Thanks for linking the Washington Post article, Eric. It supports my post from yesterday. People want to get up in arms about Adderall, HGH, etc., but they don’t give a crap that players are taking all kinds of drugs to get out onto the field that are bad for them.

  30. FairbanksDoug says:

    Seems there are more then a few that are more then eager to cast some stones. Irvin made a mistake, a big mistake, so what! Would love to meet the man that hasn’t, but even those that are mistake free don’t seem to cast a lot of stones. In any case so what! Before this revelation I liked Bruce Irvin, he came from a very troubling past, from what I could see he showed character before all this. He would be someone my children could learn from, he is someone I would allow to watch my children. I expect my children to make mistakes in life, when they do fail in life I would hope they would get back on their feet, is there a better example of that on the team, I don’t think so. The way I see it Irvin had true remorse. I don’t know what he took, and I don’t know what the circumstances. I liked him before, I like him now. He will serve time, and lose his cash, it’s a due penalty that he does not shirk. Sure we lose him for four games. It’s not a one man team, we have others that can fill the roll
    Sure I am concerned about this name “Seaadderal”, not the image we need. More importantly though we are the 12th man, we are the best fans in the NFL. I don’t believe any Seahawks are punks, really says more about us as fans when we dump on them when they make mistakes,

  31. sluggo42 says:

    This isn’t a joke. This is a Super Bowl year. And Super Bowls are won by teams that win close games, and close games are won by killer plays here and there. And by having one of those play makers out due to a stupid decision can cost a team a Super Bowl. We are not the Vikings, or the jags, we are the Super Bowl bound hawks.
    take out a key cog and a Super Bowl can be lost due to a play that never happens, because that guy took a stupid drug and has to sit out 4 games..
    I don’t even know how to get this though…

    I am livid with this…

  32. The team gave Easley those pain killers? Thats not how it went down exactly.

    First off it was ibuprofen or the like. An NSAID, which by the way is OTC now. There were more potent versions on the horizon and available so it could have been another one but as I recall it was ibu.

    Secondly, team Dr.s and trainers were charged with keeping players on the field and at the time not enough was known about Easley and the genetic predisposition he apparently had to kidney dysfunction in a mileau of “take it til’ it helps” NSAID use. I was in the middle of this on a collegiate level and nobody blinked an eye at these drugs as the risks were incredibly small.

    It was unfortunate for Kenny but in retrospect he was one of the people in life that was bound to have trouble with those drugs. The vast majority do not. What most likely happened was his style of play being brutal, generated a great need for pain and motion help and ibu-like drugs help a bunch. Coupled with the availability, he took what was needed and kept doing so as it helped him stay at the top of his game. Over time his kidneys went downhill.

    You could do the same today as ibu et al, are OTC at low doses but nobody can keep you from taking what you need. 200mg ibu 3 times a day is OTC dosing but the Rx dosing for arthritis was as high as 800mg 3 to 4 times a day. Even at the Rx dosing the risk of renal damage is very small but if you are that person it is very big.

    The Titantic could have steered south of the bergs but it was in a hurry to fulfill people’s expectations. It was invincible, or so it thought.

  33. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I was drunk when I said punk so I will explain now what I meant.

    I don’t want Irvin off the team because he got caught for what I believe anabolic steroids, however of all the players on this team Irvin has the least amount of wiggle room because of his past drug dealing imo.
    Now punk can mean a lot of things, like slang for an inexperienced young man.
    I believe it is a necessary evil to have a few of them on your team if they are freak athlete’s so long as they don’t keep repeating the same mistakes.
    And I really don’t care much if players are taking PEDs, (so long as they don’t get caught), and I don’t think they are any worse then the painkillers that the NFL is pushing on them like in the Washington Post article that Eric gave us.

    What I do care about, (being a Seattle Seahawks fan first over an individual Seahawks player) is how this all effects the team.
    When you have this many players on one team getting caught for PEDS it tells me that they are being careless and/or clueless as regards to protecting themselves from getting caught. I just don’t want them to have the same kind of carelessness and/or cluelessness playing on this team when it’s time to protect a 4th qtr lead at the end of the game.

    4th qtr lead protection really hurt us last year.

    And I don’t think losing Irvin will hurt us that much. It may even help us. Sure he lead all rookies in sacks last year, and I get that, however 8 sacks is really not a lot when you compare him to the better pass rushers in the NFL.
    Sure he’s exciting to watch but he is still a one trick pony, and that one trick is about 1/2 a sack a game.
    Will he get better? I hope so!

    Bottom line- I prefer smarter players on this team,( and fortunately we do have a lot of them ) But I think we also need a few punks too, or Knuckleheads.

    BTW- nate I’m to old to be a punk anymore but I think I still qualify as a knucklehead.

  34. Dukeshire says:

    The concern is that the players are getting caught? Not that their violating the rules?

  35. Southendzone says:

    I for one hope it was steroids or HGH, and if he’s gonna be caught and serve a 4 game suspension, I hope he did a whole heap of them and he’s way stronger for doing it.

    That way the 4 games will at least be somewhat compensated for by his added strength next year. IF it really is just adderall than it is a total waste.

  36. Dukeshire says:

    Id like to know when this test took place. It seems unlikely to me that he’d be taking adderall in the offseason, not on gamedays. In addition, it stays in your system for a very short time. Curious

  37. GeorgiaHawk says:

    If 50% of the NFL players are using Peds then it’s hard for me to be concerned more about players violating the rules then concerned about them getting caught.

    It use to bother me, however the more I keep hearing how many really violate the rules, (and that goes for all sports) the more it looks like our speed limit laws. We all now the speed limit but very few follow the rules. Especially in the Atlanta metro area.

    And it certainly doesn’t help this issue when the NFL is willing to look the other way when it comes to pain medication and the effects that has on the players performance.

    BTW- Since 2011 the Washington Redskins has 1 more,(7) violations then the Seahawks, so let’s see if the National media comes down hard on the Seahawks this time and while ignoring their beloved Redskins.

  38. sluggo42 says:

    Agreed duke, when did this test take place?

  39. bbnate420 says:

    I would expect him to be more likely to use Adderall during the week or off-season in order to study film than on a game day. Like I’ve said, I highly doubt Adderall would be much of a PED on game day. They’re already swimming in their own adrenaline. A stimulant in that situation is likely to push them over the edge and disturb their ability to think clearly. I can’t say this for sure. It hasn’t been studied. Anyone suggesting it’s a PED is really just guessing at this point. Adderall only stays in your system for a few days, so he was either very unlucky or most likely taking it regularly if he tested positive in the off-season.

    Woofu, there are OTC NSAIDs and prescription NSAIDs. Some are different drugs and some are just higher doses of OTC NSAIDs. If I recall correctly, I believe that team doctors were prescribing him high doses of Advil. They should have been doing renal tests to determine if he could withstand those high doses. In general, smaller doses of NSAIDs are available and prescribed these days due to renal and gastrointestinal bleeding issues. Regardless, my point was about Chuck’s assertion that players could sue over Adderall use. If the team doctors don’t prescribe the Adderall, which they certainly don’t have to, then the players would have nothing to sue about.

  40. If the docs were rxing high doses exceeding the labeling they should have been screening him and would have. They are not stupid. Kenny lost his case, right?

    As you can see from all the postings their is a wide diversity of opinions on this issue you can expect the same within the medical community. There lies the problem, medical/civil disobedience. That and the probability of self-medication. One time a friend of mine offered me a veterinary Rx of a pain killer he had for his dog. If I were an NFL player I would have tested positive for opiates had I agreed to take it. Disclosure even if it is made is not open and shut visability or culpability.

    “dog adderall”? Probably in one form or another exists.

  41. bbnate420 says:

    woofu, you’re certainly right that people can abuse OTC or other, veterinary, type of drugs, but that’s not what I was talking about. The doctors weren’t prescribing more than the labeling. There’s no such thing when it comes to prescriptions. There are generally excepted limits for many prescriptions, like no more than 450 mg of Wellbutrin a day, but doctors can prescribe what they want generally. Case in point, Michael Jackson’s doctor.

    I do think that the damage that NSAIDs could do to kidneys in certain people wasn’t as well understood at the time. Regardless, whether he won or lost, I don’t remember, is dependent on a jury. That doesn’t necessarily mean that in reality that they weren’t culpable.

    As I said though, my point wasn’t about whether or not the team doctors were guilty in the Easley case. The point was that they provided/prescribed them. They don’t have to prescribe Adderall, so it’s not the same thing legally as it seems Chuck was intimating.

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