Seahawks Insider

Morning links: How Elway could have been a Seahawk

Post by Eric Williams on May 5, 2013 at 9:22 am with 58 Comments »
May 5, 2013 9:24 am
Denver Broncos quarterback John Elway (7) drops back to hand the ball to teammate Leonard Russell (42) against the Seattle Seahawks, Sunday, Oct. 9, 1994, Seattle, Wash. Elway scored in the closing minute of the first half to lead Denver to a 16-9 win over Seattle. (AP Photo/Gary Stewart)
Denver Broncos quarterback John Elway (7) drops back to hand the ball to teammate Leonard Russell (42) against the Seattle Seahawks, Sunday, Oct. 9, 1994, Seattle, Wash. Elway scored in the closing minute of the first half to lead Denver to a 16-9 win over Seattle. (AP Photo/Gary Stewart)

John McGrath of The News Tribune offers his take on ESPN’s excellent 30 for 30 film documentary series, with the latest dissecting the 1983 draft that including Hall of Fame quarterbacks John Elway and Dan Marino.

Elway, of course, was selected No.1 overall by the Baltimore Colts, who then orchestrated a trade with Denver for two first round picks and backup quarterback Mark Hermann because Elway did not want to play for the Colts.

But McGrath wonders what could have been if Seattle offered a similar deal for Elway’s services.

Seattle gave up similar draft compensation to move from No. 9 to No. 3 to draft with Houston for running back Curt Warner, who had a successful, but injury shortened career for Seattle.

Elway had roots in Washington state. McGrath notes he was born in Port Angeles and had lived in both Aberdeen (where his dad, Jack, coached the Grays Harbor Community College football team) and Pullman (after Jack had taken a job as a Washington State assistant).

Also, Elway’s fiancee at the time, Stanford swimmer Janet Buchan, was a Tacoma resident who had been a star high school athlete at Wilson.

Elway finished a 20-10 record for his career against Seattle, throwing for 7,013 yards, 44 touchdowns and 27 interceptions.

Dan Pompei of the National Football Post notes that at least 18 teams selected one or more cornerbacks in this year’s draft with the potential to start, including 15 that were 6-foot or taller – a nod to Seattle head coach Pete Carroll’s success with taller, lankier corners.

Tony Drovetto of profiles new Seattle receiver Chris Harper.

ESPN’s Mike Sando breaks down NFC West draft picks by 40-yard dash NFL Scouting Combine times.

The NFL Network’s panel of draft experts debate whether the Seahawks or the 49ers had the best draft in this video link.

There’s not much out there this morning, so I thought we’d take a look back at Russell Wilson’s appearance on Jon Gruden’s quarterback camp. Check out the video below.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 58
  1. bbnate420 says:

    I saw most of the From Elway to Marino film, and it was excellent. I learned a lot of things I didn’t know. I think I had heard that his wife grew up in Tacoma. How different would the history of the Seahawks be with Elway? He most likely wouldn’t be known as the horse-toothed jackass in these parts. I think a good chance for one SB, although there were a lot of great teams in the 80’s. Elway’s numbers were hardly ever overly impressive, though he didn’t have a ton of talent surrounding him in Denver. I’m sure he’d have rather thrown to Largent. Obviously, looking back it would’ve been best to trade back up into the end of the 1st round and take Marino.

    E. Williams, technically Elway was traded for a 1984 1st round pick, QB Hermann, and OG Chris Hinton, who was Denver’s pick at 4 in 1983.

  2. I watched it too – really fun for us football fans, esp if you were around and remember that era. I have to say, at the time I thought Elway was a spoiled, cocky, and entitled guy for refusing to play for Baltimore (who held the #1 overall), and after watching the ESPN documentary on it . . .I think the exact same thing.

  3. Carlsonkid says:

    Pompei’s article is an interesting read . I think what some teams may be misunderstanding is that it’s not just drafting tall lanky corners – you also have to play press coverage and bump and run at the line of scrimmage . Much of the WCO we see in the NFL is predicated on timing routes ; I was one of the happiest guys in the world after Carroll showed up and we stopped immediately backpeddaling at the snap .

    But here’s the real difference , the secret ingredient we have that other teams don’t that makes it all work : Earl Thomas . His ability to cover ground so quickly allows him to cover a receiver that may have run by our corners . And there’s just not that many Earl Thomas’s

  4. bbnate420 says:

    Elway had options/leverage and he used it. I can’t fault him for that. The Colts slithered out of Baltimore in the middle of the night after 1983.

  5. As usual, McGrath cherry picks facts to suit his pet theory. Warner blew his knee out, and was never the same; no mention of this. Had the injury not happened, Warner likely would have been one of the all time greats, and more valuable to Seattle than Elway. Consider that Knox hated turnovers and never intended to have a pass first offense. He ran a ball control offense except in 1984 during Warner’s absence due to injury. It’s more than fair to question how Elway and Knox could have existed on the same team. Take the thread back further, when Dickerson-whom Seattle coveted, refused to play for expansion teams; Seattle traded down and thus a year or two later was after Warner. Also a pick that was originally Seattles ended up with the Niners and became Joe Montana. Seattle was far more likely to have ended up with Montana than to get Elway. Sheesh!

  6. Macabrevity says:

    Not a Raiders fan, but I thought Straight out of L.A. was easily the best of the 30 for 30 series – at least from the handful of docs I saw.

    Anyway, if Elway had been a Seahawk, maybe we would’ve set a record for Super Bowl losses? Mr. Ed had that same Jim Kelly expression of hopeless nausea before each game. It was T.D. that helped him cap off his career on a positive note, the true Elway era was one of greatness but always followed by ignominious defeat.

    “What if” is probably a weaker reason for an article than a top 11 list or a power poll.

  7. klm008 says:

    RW’s ’12 team was the “Comeback Kid’s,” winning (and losing) in the 4th qtr. Better that than the “Cardiac Kids” or “Excitement Index” champs because that stat looks for numerous changes in the lead.

    The SEA at AZ week 1 graph:
    Week 2 was SEA blowout of DAL at home
    Week 3 was GB @ SEA, again end of game win:
    Week 4 was SEA @ STL game. SEA actually started out good in the 1st half and lost it in the 2nd half. The end of the game was RW incomplete passes and Bradford kneeldowns.
    Week 5 SEA @ CAR game. SEA started out good in the 1st half and lost ground in the 3rd qtr. At the end Ryan took a long safety to eat time and rather than risk a good PR by CAR. BI got a strip sack to end the game.
    Week 6 game NE @ SEA. After the 1st qtr NE was winning this game until near the very end by a RW deep pass to SR.
    Week 7 @ SF – SEA was in good shape until half way thru the 3rd qtr. Still one SEA TD + EP would have tied it up at the end.
    Week 8 @ DET – SEA was winning until the end of game when SEA’s D gave up a TD, LW muffed the KO and time ran out.
    Week 9 vs MIN – SEA had game won from the end of the 1st half.
    Week 10 vs NYJ – again, SEA won from midway through the 2nd qtr
    Week 12 @ MIA, SEA was winning the game from the end of the 1st half, but lost it at the end of game by a game-winning Tannehill drive.
    Week 13 @ CHI, SEA was losing from midway through the 3rd qtr until end of regulation when RW put together a game-tying drive, then never looked back in OT to win.
    Week 14 vs AZ, SEA won the game from AZ’s first drive Wagner pick of Skelton to Fitz.
    Week 15 @ BUF, SEA was never in danger of losing this one.
    Week 16 vs SF, again SEA took this win from the opening KO.
    Week 17 vs STL – this one went to the end with a deep pass by RW to Tate, a TD by Lynch at the end (call reversed) followed by a TD run by RW and a pick by Sherman. Tough hard-fought game throughout.
    The SEA at ATL divisional round game (Week 19) graph where M.Bryant won by a FG at the end:

    After he’s through with football, I want RW to run for president.

  8. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Knox hated turnovers however Krieg was a better option than Elway?

    We all know that Krieg was one of the most turnover prone QBs of all time so why would Knox and Elway not be able to co-exist any better?

    Also- Dickerson and Warner came out of College into the NFL the same year, so why would Seattle trade down a year or two later for Warner?

    STTBM- I know it’s legal to smoke it in Washington St now, however maybe you should cut back on it a bit. Lol.

  9. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Macabrevity – If we had Elway at least we would have gotten to a Super Bowl back then.
    Better than not making it at all.

  10. GeorgiaHawk says:

    As much as some may not want to admit it Elway put more fear, had more success, and won more against the Seahawks than anyone else did back in the Eighties.

  11. raymaines says:

    After he’s through with football, I want RW to ….

    Find a cure for the common cold and negotiate world peace

  12. GeorgiaHawk says:


    I would be happy if he just helps this team win a Super Bowl or more.

  13. bbnate420 says:

    Georgia, you’re right. The 30 for 30 film seemed to suggest that the Hawks wanted Warner and traded for the 3rd pick once they were convinced that LA was taking Dickerson. Looking back, Dickerson would’ve been the better pick with Warner’s injury, but I don’t thin the Hawks had Kreskin working in their front office?

  14. bbnate420 says:
  15. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, Montana was selected with the 82nd pick. Are you trying to claim that the Hawks couldn’t have had him? LOL!

  16. pabuwal says:

    I got a what-if for you guys. After 1999, Holmgren made it no secret of his desire to replace Kitna at QB.

    The Seahawks selected 3 times in the 6th round of the 2000 draft before Tom Brady was selected later in the same round by the Patriots. And Brady is a West Coast guy.

  17. yankinta says:

    No thanks to John Elway, He’s OVERRATED!! He couldn’t win until Terrell Davis (Best RB in the NFL) came along.

    P. Manning and T.Brady didn’t need best running games to win Super Bowls….

  18. GeorgiaHawk says:

    The FO sure is working hard this year to help the D from having the late game meltdowns like they had last season.

    I can’t wait to see this group.

  19. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    No thanks to John Elway, He’s OVERRATED!! He couldn’t win until Terrell Davis (Best RB in the NFL) came along.

    P. Manning and T.Brady didn’t need best running games to win Super Bowls….

    wow, you want to rethink that? that has to be the most uniformed statement i have ever heard on here.

    first in the early years Elway was the team on the offensive side.

    also i put most of those losses on the coaching not Elway.

    as far as the TD era in denver yes he helped but was far from the

    only reason they won those games. you seem to forget a hall of fame

    TE. a coach that knew how to put it all together and win. before the

    wins denver was one dimensional with average defense. last time i

    checked that is not how you win Superbowls

    manning and brady did not play by themselves and did not win those

    games on their own anymore than Elway did.

    i have never like elway but to say he was overrated is like saying

    barry sanders was or earl campbell was. much as i hate to say it

    he was one of the all time greats.

  20. yankinta says:

    I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on that.

    Show me a ring by Elway without Terrell Davis and I’ll show rings by Manning and Brady’s rings with no name running backs. :)

  21. Canfan says:

    Anyone who thinks John Elway was overrated really needs to go back and watch some of those games he won. Having Terrell Davis certainly helped him win Super Bowls, but he had already established himself as a great QB without the Super Bowl wins, as Dan Marino, Jim Kelly and others did.

    And I can’t believe you’d use Peyton Manning as a comparison. What’s Peyton’s playoff record? (Not arguing that Peyton’s overrated — he’s a great one, too, despite his not-so-stellar postseason record.)

  22. Canfan says:

    Interesting tidbit there, Pabs. I wonder if Brady would have won three Super Bowls under Holmgren.

    Whenever a great QB is drafted in later rounds, fans of other teams wonder why their team didn’t grab him earlier. It’s already happening with Russell Wilson. The Jags picked a punter before him.

  23. jawpeace says:

    I think Elway was over rated. It was not until his last 6 years he had a rating over 85. Prior to that his QB rating never got above 85 until his 11th year in the league. That is ten, 10 years of sub 85. Of those ten years only once did was his QB rating in the 80s. The guy was at 73 or lower five times during his first ten. That is a C-. His career rating was a C+ 79. 9 years of his 16 were below average on the grading scale. Elway/Mr. Ed was and is OVER RATED.

  24. ruminator1 says:

    hawksfan, couldn’t agree more. Elway iritated the hell out of me, i used to scream at how lucky i thought he was, but the truth is he was a great player. in addition to his playing skills, he had a will to win

  25. pabuwal says:

    yantinka – I can show you Super Bowl Rings won by Brady and Manning when they were basically game managers during the playoffs.

    Manning was downright average in the playoffs the year they won the Super Bowl. Without Bob Sanders and that running game, he doesn’t win anything in 2006.

    As far as Brady, do you know that in his first Super Bowl he threw for a mere 88 yards until the final drive? If not for that Defense not only shutting down the high scoring Rams but generating points, the Legend of Brady may not have begun. Brady had a 1200 yard rusher that year and a 1600 yard rusher when they won the third Super Bowl. And Brady hasn’t won anything since he started exploding statistically.

  26. yankinta says:

    pabuwal, again, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

    But just to point out something you may not know, When Elway publicly criticized Tim Teabow 2 years ago,, a lot of Bronco Fans Said the same thing about Elway, (How overrated he was and that he’s lucky the MVP Terrell Davis helped him win a ring)….. And these are all die hard Broncos Fans that said this, not I. :)

  27. bbnate–The pick that was used on Joe Montana was originally Seattle’s. Montana could have been theirs at that pick, or before–far easier than trading up the number one pick BEFORE the draft, or risking losing Dickerson AND Warner and ending up with someone else while trying to work out a trade AFTER Balt took Elway.

    Its asinine revisionist history with only partial facts–the McGrath specialty.

    Georgia–Yeah, Kreig knew how to play ball-control offense far better than Elway. Elway KNEW he was good, and there’s no way in hell he would have listened to Knox even as much as Kreig did. Elway was even more of a riverboat gambler than Favre–and while Kreig did that stuff from time to time, he had to watch it or Knox would bench his butt and Kreig knew it. I don’t see how those two would have managed to coexist on the same team. Certainly not well. Knox’s offensive strategy a) wouldn’t have suited Elway’s strengths and b) would have led to major conflict between the two; and Knox would have won that fight. Elway may not even have become the same player had he been drafted by Knox.

    yankinta–Youre too young to have watched Elway, except maybe his last year or two. If you never watched him play when he was younger and in his prime, with crap talent surrounding him, then your opinion is worthless.

    I never could stand Mr. Ed, but his will to win, his competitive nature, and his insane talent made him the toughest qb to beat for the Hawks his whole career. I learned to respect him, even when we beat him. He beat us 2-1 over his career.

    The man carried his teams on his back, and they were never out of the game, no matter how far down they were, with him at qb. He was amazing. Looking at SB wins or just stats will give you a bogus picture of his value and performance.

    Tebow fans can call Elway overrated all they like–just more evidence they are wet-brains.

    Elway was one of the greatest players in NFL history. Funny how younger folks ignore or belittle the greatness of players they only saw play on Youtube highlight videos or on video games…

  28. yankinta says:

    STTBM, I seriously doubt that you watch more of Elway’s games than Die-Hard Broncos Fans. They probably watched every minute of his games, including pre-season games. So your credibility is worthless in this subject. :)

  29. I never liked, and always rooted against Elway, but the guy was the man in the 4th quarter. This list bears that out:

    @bbnate – I hear you, and in general agree w/that premise re leverage, but man, Elway, and frankly his dad too, come off as so cocky and entitled. There’s a scene where his dad rolls his eyes at the mere thought of the Colts thinking they could actually get him, and I can’t help but think that he should have some respect for the league/system that’s about to pay him millions of dollars for playing a game 6 mos a year.

  30. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    yankinta, there you go again.

    STTBM , very well written and couldn’t agree more. funny how people

    who claim to know football slight players who played the game at

    incredibly high levels for long periods of time. i remember those

    teams he played on if they had any other QB they would have

    lost most games. he took an incredible pounding week in an week


    HOF first ballot, but what do the people know that voted him in?

    yankinta, you act like your opinion is the only one that matters.

    denver won those games because for the first time in his career

    elway didn’t have to do it all.

    best SB play of all time IMO, elway’s dive for the goal line where

    airborne he is hit and spun completely around in crossing for the

    TD. one he hung on two he actually got up. what a hit.

    and for every Bronco fan you produce that didn’t like him i can

    find you thousands that thought he was the greatest including one

    of my best friends.

    yankinta , basing your argument on a few fans is weak and sloppy

    with no merit what so ever.

  31. yankinta says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma, I’m talking about hundreds of Broncos Fans, if not Thousands….. I’m not sure if I would call that a few. Or maybe you didn’t know that cuz you didn’t follow the Tebow Mania closely 2 years ago.

  32. Macabrevity says:

    Props to the serious football fans on this site for acknowledging John Elway’s greatness. Now, please turn in your Seahawks credentials. No self-respecting Hawk fan should ever… would ever… could ever speak such heresy. The bane of our organization for nearly as long as I can remember watching the AFC West Hawks. If any of you want to gain back your self-respect as Hawk fans, place your right hand on a copy of Brian Bosworth’s ‘Stone Cold’ (VHS or laser disc, doesn’t matter) and swear that you’d rather have Gale Gilbert than Mr. Ed as your starting QB.

  33. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    yankinta, and again using fans to base a statement on a players ability to play football is smart how? fans are just that fans, most never played at a high level and are basing there judgement on what?
    their vast knowledge? please.
    not one defensive coordinator that game-planned against Elway ever said he was not a great QB not one.
    “Indicative of his versatility, Elway was responsible for 334 touchdowns (300 passing; 33 rushing and one receiving) generating 4,771 of the 5,806 points (82.2%) scored by the Broncos during his 16-year tenure with the club. Selected to play in nine Pro Bowl games, Elway was a first- or second-team All-Pro choice three times and a first- or second-team All-AFC choice five times. In addition to his all-league honors, he was named the NFL’s Most Valuable Player in 1987, AFC Offensive Player of the Year in 1993, and Super Bowl XXXIII Most Valuable Player.”
    the link takes you to remainder of the article (you mite just want to read it)
    again taking the opinion of fans over people that really know is not real bright and a weak argument.

  34. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    Mac, i hate Elway as much as any hawk fan or UW fan for that matter.

    however i do respect the player for the incredible body of work he turned in. and the out rite beating he took as a player on a week to week basis. i don’t think much of him as a person but i respect the hell out of him as a player.

  35. Yank, those Denver fans that claim Elway was overrated are either too young to have actually seen him in his prime, and/or not really Broncos fans but merely Tebowmaniacs, a species of subhumanoid devoid of rational thought.

    Who cares what Tebow Nation thinks?! They’ve proven to have no hold on reality whatsoever.

  36. yankinta says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma, we all know what it means to make it to the Pro-Bowl (hype by media and other players). Look at Richard Sherman not making it to the Pro Bowl last year. Based on your Theory, Richard Sherman didn’t play great last year…… Who cares about the Pro Bowl?? Enough said. :)

  37. Glossman says:

    I’ve not posted here in about 9 or 10 years, but this thread brought me out.

    Anyone who thinks that Elway in a Seahawks uniform would have resulted in a Super Bowl win either wasn’t around in the 80’s and 90’s or, they simply have a bad memory.

    With the exception of ’83 and ’84 teams, no Seahawks team during Elway’s career was even remotely good enough to even make it to the Big Game, let alone win it. And if you throw in those first two seasons (which happened to be Elway’s as well), Dave Krieg had far better stats than did Mr. Ed.

    Now, I’ll agree that the late ’80’s and 1990’s would not nearly have been as dreadful for ‘hawks fans as they turned out to be, but assuming that John Elway’s presence would have completely changed history is a bit of a reach.

  38. SandpointHawk says:

    Is this for real? You are actually debating whether Elway was any good? Please people get a grip. John was a winner, also an a-hole but a winner non the less. He just put the team on his back and won baby. Denver fans love him and for good reason. He was my brothers golf partner for years and as much as I’ve been around football for the last 50 years I’ve never met anyone with such a will to win. No I never played football with him but after two holes on the golf course I knew enough not to up my bet…To be clear as a Seahawk fan I hated him, but as a NFL fan I definitely respected him.

  39. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    yankinta, WOW just WOW. that is by far the stupidest thing i have ever read. it is obvious that all the facts in the world won’t change your mind so i will not waste more time. “can’t teach stupid”

  40. SandpointHawk says:

    Stupid is as stupid posts…with apologies to Winston Groom…

  41. mickmack22 says:

    Curt Warner, who had a successful, but injury shortened career for Seattle.

    I guess you need to define injury shortened. Most running backs would be happy with 3 more 1000 yard seasons. (It would have been four except for a strike shortened 12 game 1987 year).

    Curt Warner’s rookie season is considered to be one of the best ever. Also Chuck Knox was a running coach. Elway wouldn’t have been quite the same QB and not really a good fit for the knox style Seahawks system. Elway had a miserable first 3 year. He threw WAY too many interceptions. He would have drove Knox into screaming fits. Knox really hated turnovers.

  42. BobbyK says:

    John Elway is the greatest QB I have ever seen in my life. I just wrote about that same thing the other day.

  43. Dukeshire says:

    I can’t help but think the same reason Knox wanted Farve is why he would have wanted Elway. Simply because he prefered running doesnt change that. Carroll prefers to run first too, but he’s still managed to assemble a potent and threatening passing offense.

  44. BobbyK says:

    Reeves wanting (and getting) Elway is the same thing as Knox wanting him too. I agree. Just because they were run first didn’t mean they wouldn’t have wanted to have a franchise type of guy at that position.

  45. pabuwal says:

    The Seahawks also wanted to sign Warren Moon and replace Dave Krieg when Moon came out of the CFL in 1984.

  46. bbnate420 says:

    If you just simply look up Elway’s statistics, they’re not terribly impressive. That’s what Yankster is doing. I’m as big a proponent of stats as anyone here probably besides klm, but Yankster is completely misusing the stats here and showing their limits. You have to be able to analyze statistics. Use historical context. Know the teams he played on. Not to mention actually having ever actually watched him play. I’m not sure I’d say he was better than Marino or Montana in the 80’s, but he was surely a great QB.

    Saying that he is overrated because some pea-brained Tebow fans in the Denver area say so is just almost too stupid to bother mentioning. Claiming that something is true because someone else holds the same opinion doesn’t even meet the standards of 1sr grade logic.

  47. Knox didnt want Favre. When asked, he wanted to draft a defensive player. When asked if he had to pick a qb, which one would it be, he reportedly said “The kid from Mississippi”–Favre.

    But yeah, same thing.

    Again, not sure Favre would have become Favre had Knox gotten ahold of him, but then again, Kreig was awesome in 1984 when Knox let him throw the ball and he had some good WR’s, so maybe with a big-armed qb like Favre Knox would have opened things up. Hard to say.

    I still think Knox didnt want Elway, partly due to his fixation on Warner/Dickerson, partly because Elway was a fatuous asshat at that time, and partly because he wasnt Knox’s type of qb. But of course, I could be dead wrong. Wouldnt be the first or last time…

  48. yankinta says:

    Look, Y’all are stating your opinions. I’m stating Facts….

    Fact : John Elway only won a ring with the help of NFL MVP RB Terrell Davis.

    Fact : Probowl is a popularity contest. It favors high 1st round picks get it, look at Peterson going to the Probowl instead of Richard Sherman.

    Fact : As bad as Tim Tebow was, John Elway couldn’t win the favor of Broncos over Tim Tebow, and the Truth came out about how they too thought he was overrated.

    Let’s hear you people’s facts… :)

  49. Dukeshire says:

    Of all the articles I’ve read and stories I’ve heard, no where do they indicate Knox wanted a defensive player. They were committed to a QB. (Here’s just two, but there are dozens more like them.)

    yankinta – Double check your “facts”. Elway has two rings.

  50. yankinta says:

    Dukeshire, nevertheless, he had the help of NFL MVP to win those 2 wins. Where are your facts?? I’ve only seen opinions.

    I’ll give you more facts….
    Fact : The latest QB to win SB with a below average running game, Aaron Rodgers against Steelers….

  51. bbnate420 says:

    Did Elway win the SB MVP in his second super bowl? Did he throw for over 300 yards? HMMMMMM?

    Yantinka, you show yourself to be a bigger fool every time you open your mouth about this. You clearly don’t know the difference between a fact and an opinion.

    “Fact : John Elway only won a ring with the help of NFL MVP RB Terrell Davis.

    Fact : Probowl is a popularity contest. It favors high 1st round picks get it, look at Peterson going to the Probowl instead of Richard Sherman.

    Fact : As bad as Tim Tebow was, John Elway couldn’t win the favor of Broncos over Tim Tebow, and the Truth came out about how they too thought he was overrated.”

    Not ONE of these is a fact. I’m not sure if you’re just trolling or really this moronic. And yes, that is condescending, just as you are in most of your posts.

  52. Dukeshire says:

    yankinta – You cited as fact that Elway has only one SB ring. That is *not* a fact, that is (once again) incorrect. The fact is that he has two SB rings, as I cited. That’s not an opinion as you suggest, that is a fact (for which you retroactively* asked). Perhaps you have confused the meaning of those two words. This ought to help:

    *another word whith which you may need help:

  53. Dukeshire says:


  54. yankinta says:

    bbnate420, I could start calling you names and attack you personally but I’m not classless, so I’ll take the high road. If you want to dispute my facts then show me facts that disputes my 4 facts, instead of your opinions. cuz on one cares about your opinions…. :)

    Dukeshire, you’re right. He did win 2 SB. Nevertheless he has never won SB until TD came to Denver. Show me a SB win, where he didn’t have TD in the back field. That’s my point and you just made it even stronger.

  55. Dukeshire says:

    Yes, I know I’m right. He also didn’t win any Super Bowls without Shannon Sharpe (or a host of either players) either. But no matter, I couldn’t care less about TD’s role in helping the Broncos winning, I was simply correcting you. Which ordinarily I don’t care about either, but you often present in-correct facts or factually inaccurate information, in such an overbearing way, that I felt compelled to clarify. Basically, take it down a notch and relax. That act wear pretty thin, IMO. (I’m sure you’ll blast me now…)

  56. yankinta says:

    lol, nah, I never blasted anyone. I only want to have objective discussions. Name callings and personal attacks are for the immature and amateurs.

    We can agree to disagree like adults. :) Shannon Sharpe owes JE too since without JE, he would not be the TE that he was.

    My only point is I don’t think John Elway was as good as ESPN’s hype. He’s above average QB. But not at the level of Aaron Rodgers, Brady, P. Manning. But that’s just my opinions and based on the facts that I chose to use.

  57. Dukeshire says:

    That’s cool.

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