Seahawks Insider

Roster analysis

Post by Eric Williams on April 29, 2013 at 8:01 am with 154 Comments »
April 29, 2013 9:10 am

Good morning. With the draft and free agency pretty much over, I thought this would be a good time to take a second look at the Seattle Seahawks’ roster.

By my count, the Seahawks have filled the 90-man roster heading into OTA’s and training camp. Seattle will host a rookie minicamp on May 10-12.

UPDATE: The Seahawks actually have 91 players on the roster, but they can carry over the 90-man limit because none of the draft picks have signed contracts yet.

Head coach Pete Carroll will have some tough decisions to make come September, particularly at cornerback, receiver, offensive line, defensive tackle and linebacker.

Quarterback
Number kept last season: Two
Currently on roster: Four
Average number kept since 2009: 2.75
Lock: Russell Wilson
Looking good: Brady Quinn
On the bubble: Josh Portis
Longer odds: Jerrod Johnson
Comment – I’m interested to watch the competition for the backup job between Quinn and Portis. I give Quinn the edge right now because of his experience and first-round draft status. However, Portis has a better understanding of the offense, and more closely resembles Wilson’s skill set. Both John Schneider and Pete Carroll appeared excited about Johnson when talking about him after the draft, saying that he’s changed his quirky throwing motion and looks good throwing the ball. At 6-5, 251 pounds with the ability to run some read option, Johnson also is an interesting prospect.

Running back
Number kept last season: Four
Currently on roster: Seven
Average number kept since 2009: 4.25
Locks: Marshawn Lynch, Robert Turbin.
Looking good: Michael Robinson, Christine Michael.
On the bubble: Spencer Ware
Longer odds: Derrick Coleman, Dominique Whaley.
Comment – Even though he’s a second round pick, it’s hard for me to put Michael here as a lock because he was a healthy scratch in the final game of his college career. The physical ability obviously is there, but I wonder how he’s going to handle the competitive aspect of playing in the NFL. Julius Jones comes to mind here. Ware is expected to compete for time at fullback, but has not played that position since he was a freshman, and there’s some subtle things with Seattle’s zone blocking scheme that he’ll have to pick up quickly to earn a spot on the final roster.

Wide receiver
Number kept last season: Five
Currently on roster: 12
Average number kept since 2009: 5.0
Locks: Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate.
In the hunt: Chris Harper, Jermaine Kearse, Charly Martin, Phil Bates, Stephen Williams, Brett Swain.
Longer Odds: Bryan Walters, Matt Austin.
Comment – I’m interested to see how Harper mixes into this group. He definitely brings a different element because of his physicality and ability to fend off defensive backs for contested passes, but Bates has some of that ability as well. It could come down to which of these players between Kearse, Martin, Bates and Swain handle special teams duties the best. Williams also brings something different with his ability to stretch the field vertically.

Tight end
Number kept last season: Three
Currently on roster: Six
Average number kept since 2009: 2.75
Locks: Zach Miller,
Looking good: Anthony McCoy, Sean McGrath
In the hunt: Luke Willson.
Longer odds: Darren Fells, Cooper Helfet.
Comment – I like the overall depth and talent at this position group with the addition of Fells and Willson. There’s not a lot of experienced talent on the roster, but I think this group has the potential to be good if guys play up to their ability. Don’t sleep on McGrath – he’s got quiet hands like Dallas Clark.

Offensive line

Number kept last season: 10
Currently on roster: 15
Average number kept since 2009: 10
Locks: Russell Okung, Max Unger, James Carpenter, Breno Giacomini, J.R. Sweezy.
In the hunt: Paul McQuistan, John Moffitt, Lemuel Jeanpierre, Ryan Seymour, Mike Person, Rishaw Johnson.
Longer odds: Jared Smith, Michael Bowie, Alvin Bailey, Jordan Roussos.
Comment – The depth and overall talent level is better than the perception of this group, in my opinion. Yes, there are question marks, including Carpenter’s ability to come back healthy and productive after finishing 2012 on the inured reserve with continued knee issues. But Sweezy should see a jump in production after a year of experience, Moffitt is a solid player who will compete for a job, and McQuistan offers versatility because he can play four positions on the line. I’m bullish on Giacomini, and believe he will cut down on the penalties and bone-headed mistakes. And I also like Jeanpierre as a solid fill-in guy in the interior of the defensive line. Tom Cable has brought this group a long way in two seasons.

Defensive line
Number kept last season: Eight
Currently on roster: 13 14
Average number kept since 2009: 8.5
Locks:Chris Clemons, Red Bryant, Brandon Mebane, Clinton McDonald, Cliff Avril, Bruce Irvin, Michael Bennett.
In the hunt: Tony McDaniel, Jordan Hill, Jaye Howard, Gregg Scruggs, Jesse Williams.
Longer odds: Kenneth Boatright, Myles Wade.
Comment – The competition at defensive tackle should be heated, with McDaniel, Hill, Howard, Scruggs and Williams fighting for what appears to be one spot, athough the Seahawks do have some versatility here, with both Irvin and Avril capable of playing outside linebacker. Bennett also can move inside and rush the passer from the defensive tackle position.

Linebackers
Number kept last season: Seven
Currently on roster: 12
Average number kept since 2009: 6.5
Locks: K.J. Wright, Bobby Wagner, Malcolm Smith, Heath Farwell.
In the hunt:Mike Morgan, Allen Bradford, Kyle Knox, Korey Toomer.
Longer odds: Ty Powell, Ramon Buchanan, John Lotulelei, Craig Wilkins.
Comment – Outside linebacker appeared to be a pressing need for Seattle, with Leroy Hill likely not returning in free agency. But Seattle drafted just one linebacker in the seventh round in Powell, who’s more of a pass rusher than a guy who regularly drops in coverage. Carroll said that Smith will get the first opportunity to fill the role left vacant by Hill, but Seattle has some added versatility with Avril and Irvin able to play SAM linebacker. Seattle also could play more nickel with the addition of Antoine Winfield.

Cornerbacks
Number kept last season: Six
Currently on roster: 11
Average number kept since 2008: 5.75
Locks: Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner, Antoine Winfield.
On the bubble:Jeremy Lane, Walter Thurmond, Tharold Simon, Byron Maxwell, DeShawn Shead, Will Blackmon.
Longer odds: Ron Parker, Chandler Fenner.
Comment – This position group should be one of the most competitive in camp, with some intense battles for the backup spots on the outside and at nickel cornerback. Thurmond is heading into the final year of his contract, and must show the organization he can stay healthy for an entire season. Blackmon offers the added dimension of being able to fill in as a returner. Lane proved last season that he can fill in as a capable starter. And team scouts are bullish on the skill set of fifth round draft choice Simon.

Safeties
Number kept last season: Five
Currently on roster: Six
Average number kept since 2008: 4.25
Locks:Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor.
In the hunt: Jeron Johnson, Chris Maragos, Winston Guy
Longer odds: Ray Polk.
Comment – With Chancellor signing a long-term extension, he solidified his role as a cornerstone player and young leader in this organization. Guy needs to improve and show more consistency from is rookie season. If Johnson and Maragos continue to be solid role players and strong special teamers, it will be hard to keep them off the roster.

Specialists
Specialists kept last season: Three
Currently on roster: Four
Average number kept since 2009: 3.0
Locks: (P) Jon Ryan, (LS) Clint Gresham.
On the bubble: (K) Steven Hauschka, (K) Carson Wiggs
Comment: With Hauschka re-signing with Seattle, there should be an strong competition at kicker with strong-legged Purdue product Wiggs. Gresham has been steady at long snapper since the team added him in 2010. Ryan has developed into one of the better punters in the league, helping Seattle flip field position.

Categories:
Roster Analysis
Leave a comment Comments → 154
  1. simpsonian says:

    well there is certainly a lot of competition everywhere on the roster. mission accomplished, pete.

  2. Dukeshire says:

    Nice work Eric and I agree that the competition at 3-tech will be as fierce as any position battle on the team. And I would go so far to say that if Jordan Hill and Jessie Williams really flash, McDonald will not make this roster.

  3. CDHawkFan says:

    Should be really interesting to see the battle in camp to make the team at 1) DL, 2) OL, 3) CB, 4) RB, 5) QB…maybe it would have been easier to say which positions I think are closer to ‘set’.

    I think Howard and McDaniel are the odd men out at DL.
    I like what I have read about the OG Bailey who left college early, they might have to figure out how to keep 11 of these OL.
    I think they keep an extra RB this year over last year and hope they can contribute on ST. This will allow Ware to grow at FB.
    At CB, is Maxwell or Lane gone or hidden on the PS after a year? Maybe a trade for a late pick next year for one of these guys?
    At QB, will they be as confident in their 2nd QB to only carry 2?

    I have them at around 56 (so 3 too many), there will be some tough decisions, hopefully camp will help, and as usually injuries will also determine the final numbers/spots.

  4. I was surprised by the McDonald “lock” comment, too.

    I agree about your SAM/Winfield nickel comment. I have been wondering if we would see more CBs on the field with the plethora of talent we seem to have there. Pete likes to think out of the box so that might be a way of getting his best players on the field. He’s probably experimenting in some science [football] lab right now with different potions.

    Very happy for the chance of Malcolm Smith that they didn’t view Will as a huge need (it would seem). He’s gonna have a good season when he is on the field.

    Speaking of unorthodox thinking (and Mr. Happy isn’t exactly conventional) – Let Quinn be the back-up to Wilson except for when the team is down or tied with 2-minutes left in the game. Sign Tebow to be the 2-minute QB if Wilson gets injured. I’ve seen Tebow lead too many game winning drives to not think he couldn’t be an asset (he could play ST too). I have no faith in Tebow the first 58 minutes though, so that’s why you’d keep Quinn to manage the majority of the game. I don’t see Tebow as a circus like some because Seattle is some city in Russia and they already have a man entrenched as a starter for over a decade instead of some clown at QB like Sanchez in the biggst sports market in the country.

  5. I see Spencer Ware as a PS type of guy this year. Nobody (you would think) is going to want to pick up a RB that they passed on 5-6 times, on average, to add to their regular roster late in camp after he’s been cut by the Seahawks – especially since he’ll have worked as a FB all camp. I like the pick – just don’t see him making the roster THIS year.

  6. IssaquahJustin says:

    Looks like there are actually 14 D-linemen listed, bringing the total roster to 91. Is this allowed since technically the draft picks haven’t signed yet or will the Hawks have to cut someone prior to the May mini-camp?

  7. yankinta says:

    I’m pretty sure, RW and Brady Q are locked for the 2 QB spots. Won’t carry 3 QB. this is probably why they didn’t want to draft a QB like BJ Daniels. I think 49ers will carry 3 QB so BJ should be on their Roster.

    Although I liked BJ Daniels, I guess I’m okay with not wasting a Roster Spot for a 3rd QB.

  8. tealskin says:

    Yikes! Get Tebow to play at end of games because Quinn isn’t good enough in case RW gets injured. That is some convoluted thinking. Hope you’re kidding. Why not find a quality backup period? Go with 2 QB’s and use the roster spot elsewhere.

  9. HonHawksLSB says:

    Thank You Eric!

    Only weakness appears to be backup QB and OLB (unless Avril & Irvin are as versatile and JS thinks they are)

    I think the writing is on the wall for players like Tate, Thurmond, Browner & (I hate to say it) Robinson. We drafted Harper to replace Tate, Simon or Lane to fill that starting spot opposite Sherm & Ware is a wildcard.

    We probably go 6 LBs and 9 Dlinemen this year or even 5 & 10. DL is deep!!!

  10. HonHawksLSB says:

    Not saying their roster spots are in jeopardy this year, but just not in our future plans.

  11. IssaquahJustin: Thanks for catching that. Yes, that’s correct. The draft picks are not signed, so technically they have not been added to the roster yet.

  12. HonHawksLSB says:

    In my opinion we should be thinking more Mark Sanchez as our backup and not Tebow. Idzik may go the Houshmenzadah route and pay him to play somewhere else to avoid the distraction and build his team his way.

    I’d take Sanchez as our backup for basically free. Thoughts?

  13. jawpeace says:

    Well if they kept four safeties instead of five. And have Winfield or one of the very physical cornerbacks being able to play both spots. This would open up a roster spot.
    I guess us fans better be prepared to be shocked. Odds are some kid we are counting out is going to make the team and most likely oust a vet in the process. In seems to happen every year. Especially with the competition theme which gives undrafted and lower rounds players a fighting chance to make the team.
    Go Hawks!

  14. I’m not kidding one single bit about Tebow being a good end of the game QB. For the record, I do think he sucks for the first 58 minutes though. I agree that we should just get a good back-up QB though which is why my mind is boggled that we traded Flynn and replaced him with Quinn. I’d rather have Sanchez as a second stringer than Quinn if we got him for “free.” He has gotten a step from the SB by playing with a good team so even though I don’t think he’s very good – he can stear the ship should anything happen to Wilson. Of course, Quinn could have probably got the Jets that far too and Sanchez would have probably looked like Quinn in his early years if he’d been surrounded by the same talent of Quinn. What am I trying to say? I don’t know anymore!

  15. trout_hound says:

    Bobby, I’m sure Quinn would be extra stoked to have Tebow show up in the locker room like a Denver deja vu. Not.
    I actually feel bad for Tim, the dude is a leader and he’s got balls, but I doubt any team will ever give him a legit shot just because of the media circus that follows him everywhere, as well as his obvious deficiencies. He needs to think hard about whether he should switch to tight end or else go try to light up the Arena league for a couple of seasons.
    I actually was thinking Pete might take Barkley in the third. I think a lot of teams are going to regret passing on that guy, and Pete knows him better than anyone.
    I like our picks, but I can’t help wondering if quite a few wont make the team. I guess that’s a good problem to have.

  16. Personally, I don’t care about the feelings of Brady Quinn. :)

  17. trout_hound says:

    Me either, I think the 9ers got the better deal of the Brown QB castoff lottery.

  18. Dukeshire says:

    Last year, Seattle ran nickel nearly 60% of all defensive snaps. I think we can look for that trend to continue as they ought to have the lead in most games (presuming the offense performs close to expectations). So I don’t see Winfield have any impact on whether they run nickel or not; game situations will determine that, as they have in the past.

  19. Bobby, its a bit early to be drinking dude. Drinking is the only way I can explain your Tebow comments.

  20. Competition at D-line and WR will be ferocious. We willbe cutting some good player there.

    Looking at the CB group I would expect Browner, Sherman, Winfield, Lane, Maxwell and Simon to make the team.

    Safety looks to be the same as last year with my guess Thomas, Chancellor, Maragos, Johnson and Guy making the team.

  21. chuck_easton says:

    BobbyK,

    NO, NO, oh yeah, and HELL NO, to Tebow coming anywhere near this team. The Seattle fans don’t need the legon of Tebow Zealots that will follow him and immediately demand to see him inserted as the starter because Wilson had a bad game (OK, that was last year and it was me screaming for Flynn, and it was because Wilson hadn’t proven himself yet…).

    Tebow brings this all on himself by remaining willingly silent while his legon of worshipers declare him the second coming of, no not HIM but I know what you were thinking, Joe Montana and if some team just gave him a chance to be the full time starter he would prove he could be a franchise QB.

    Have you ever heard Tebow come out and say he wants to start? Have you ever heard Tebow come out and say he thinks he’s better than Orton, Quinn, Sanchez, McElroy…(add QB ahead of him on the depthchart here)? No. But you have also never heard him come out and say to his blind devotees “hey, thanks for the support and all…but BOB is this team’s starting QB. I’m just here to do what I can to help make the team better.”

    Tebow likes that his followers swarm whatever city he’s in and start the booing of the starter. Tebow likes the fact that his followers will shout to their dying breath that Tebow is the best QB on the team and he should be starting. Tebow likes that his fans will claim he’s better than every QB on roster X and if this team won’t give him a chance then they are losers and the team should give him to team X.

    Problem is Tebow doesn’t admit that he just isn’t the type of QB that will ever be good as a full time NFL starter.

    He had his miricle dream season with the Broncos. They had to trade him once Manning came on board because, there are still Tebow zealots that insist Tebow is better than Payton because ‘at least he one a playoff game for Denver’.

    So, to make a very long winded response come to an end. The ONLY way I could ever accept Tebow on this team is if the very first words out of his mouth are, AND I QOUOTE: “I’d like to thank the Seattle Organization for giving me this chance. I think Russell Wilson is a great QB and I can only get better by being on this team. I will do whatever is asked of me to help this team win.”

    I guarantee you won’t hear that from him. But all of Seattle, including this website, will be inundated with the Tebow zealots demanding that he start over Wilson because all he does is win.

  22. tchristensen says:

    I’m not yet convinced that either Clinton McDonald or Heath Farwell are locks to make the team, Farwell’s been great on ST but is getting up there in age.
    I would not be surprised to see either Alvin Bailey or Michael Bowie make the team, even if it’s only on the practice squad.

  23. HawkfaninMT says:

    I feel like contracts, and not performance, will play a large role in some of these roster decisions. How much is guaranteed to McQuisitan, McDaniel, McDonald, Robinson, and Thurmond (was he an old CBA draftee?). If the Hawks can save 2.5M here, and 3M there by dropping these back ups(save MRob)without a huge drop in production I see them taking that route.

    Maybe get the other Half of our safety tandem locked up for another 5 years, before the season starts?

  24. HawkfaninMT says:

    I wonder if there have been any internal discussions about trading Tate? If Harper pans out Tate will not be re-signed, IMO. May as well get some draft capital or a player instead of losing him for free at the end of the year, right?

  25. owenbytheway says:

    On the Hawks chessboard, I would move Avril, Irvin and Bennett to split DLine/OLB and move Malcolm Smith to the bubble.

    Partially because of Smith’s off-time, partially because both Hill and Williams add flexibility to DLine schemes.

    Difficult to see cut of Robinson because of locker room positivity, and Ware could be practice squad, but, if they keep him on 53 then look for them to drop an oline spot.

  26. chuck_easton says:

    HawkfaninMT,

    Why are the first two names that come up as potential WR roster casualties Tate and/or Rice?

    To be honest, if Harper really does come out and shine as a legitimate #2 I’d see Rice, Harper as the starters, Tate and Harvin as the slot/H-back, and Baldwin would be the odd man out before either Tate or Rice.

    I know Baldwin had a remarkable rookie year. Undrafted. Made the roster. Led the team in receptions. But last year he came back to earth. If it was due to injuries, or whatever, he never clicked with Wilson and the passing game next year.

    My take is the battle is between Harper and Baldwin for the 4th/5th spot. Tate, Harvin and Rice are all locks.

  27. Southendzone says:

    Sorry but have to agree, the 2 minute Tebow idea sounds ridiculous. We also should sign a punter who specializes only when the wind is over 25MPH and blowing east to west. They both would see about the same amount of action.

    D-Line will be a crazy competition, I’m most interested in the RB’s though. A lot of speculation on here about M. Rob being gone. I’ve heard good things about Ware and wonder if he finds a roster spot somehow on special teams.

  28. The too big SS is a bad idea too. Same for drafting DTs and moving them to guard. Same for a QB that is too small. But if they actually did sign him – it’d be amazing to see how many people all of a sudden talk about this being the greatest idea in the history of the world. lol

  29. Dukeshire says:

    Chuck – I’m in agreement with your Baldwin comments, despite the fact Carroll sees Harper as an outside receiver. That is presuming they don’t trade Tate.

  30. SkeleTony says:

    Tim Tebow is not in any sense of the word(s) a good QB. he just plain sucks and should not even be ANYONE’s backup. The reasons he had some success in the last two minutes of several games his rookie year in Denver was not because he has any talent to win games late. It is simply a combination of probabilities (odds are that at some point in the last 10 decades in the NFL a mediocre Qb will win 7 games in a row and a playoff game at some point. If that never happened then it would have been evidence of something supernatural.
    The other factor is that Denver has/had a VERY good team. The same team that Peyton Manning almost led to the AFC championship game if not for a flukey Baltimore team’s upsets. Mark Sanchez is not considered a very good QB by most and he lead the Jets to two consecutive championship games because, like Denver, the Jets had a good defense and were then a fairly decent team all around.

    Carroll and Schneider are too smart to be messing around with Tebow. They already experimented with bringing in overrated players with crazy media following with Terrel Owens and I think they learned the lesson without having to suffer for it.

  31. SkeleTony says:

    Also, I don’t see Seattle trading a WR of Tate’s ability. Guy is a flat out stud! He has that ‘The Ball belongs to me and I will be taking it from you.’ disposition and talent that fits right in with Seattle’s new nastiness. I always wonder what the Hell Hawks fans are thinking when they assume Tate will be dumped in favor of someone else. To me that sounds every bit as nonsensical as people assuming that since Quinn has been added Wilson will be traded.

    Really like the “Monstar” and hope he lights things up in the preseason. WE have a good track record with players of uncommonly large physique.

  32. This we know – NO matter what all the haters say – if PC things that Tebow could help this team in some format – they would bring him in and give him a chance. I doubt they do so we don’t have to worry about it.

    WR – one of these guys makes the team Chris Harper, Jermaine Kearse, Charly Martin, Phil Bates, Stephen Williams, Brett Swain.

    Unless they decide to cut/trade someone – Tate, contrary to what everyone seems to want – plays outside – if they decide they really love Harper, he could be the guy to go – same position. I don’t think that will happen – but someone might be willing to trade for him.

    DB’s – all these guys have got to worry – IMO –
    Jeremy Lane, Walter Thurmond, Tharold Simon, Byron Maxwell, DeShawn Shead, Will Blackmon.

    I think that Thurmond, is in a make or break position – play or be cut.
    I see Shead/Blackmon/Thurmond as hottest seats of these but all must be ready to go.

    Jeron Johnson, Chris Maragos, Winston Guy – I think one guy goes here – just because they will need the extra spot for another position.

  33. FleaFlicker says:

    Wish the Cowboys were in the NFC West. Jerry Jones is the second coming of Al Davis.

    They traded down 15 spots and only got a third rounder in comp and then picked a dude that NOBODY had on the boards.

    Only complaint: they did the trade with SF instead of SEA…

  34. I see others have said this but no way McDonald and Farwell are locks. McDonald will be replaced by the young guys and look for Powell to have a great camp.

  35. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    lol bobby, had to do it didn’t you? too many of you are too damn closed minded. let’s face it the guy finds ways to win unlike quinn and most of the rest of the back ups out there. i would rather saddle myself with a winner than a loser any day.

    on to other things does anyone think Red’s days might be numbered?
    i see williams being a better red, being able to bull rush much better for a lot less money

  36. HawkfaninMT says:

    @Chuck: Tate was the first I mentioned based on the salary he will be commanding at the end of the year. My post was based on the idea that these younger (read: cheaper) players could offer a contract that is smaller with only a slight drop in production. Of course, this comes with the caveat that PC feels the production drop will be slight.

    Just to throw out some numbers that I feel like I have heard batted around:

    If McQ is set to count 3M against the cap, and MRob is set to count 2.5, wouldn’t it make sense (assuming production doesn’t fall off a cliff) to cut these two, replace them with guys that will comebine to make 600K, and use that extra 4.9M to roll over to next year, or put toward an ET extension?

    I am not stating facts here, but just throwing an idea out for discussion. It just seems to make sense to me, and I am all for being proven wrong!

  37. I don’t see Tate going anywhere, isn’t going to be our punt returner as well. Jump balls, running people over (plural) at the goal line, juking mf’ers, layin lumber on Lee, this dude is everything repesentational about the Hawks.

  38. “I’d take Sanchez as our backup for basically free. Thoughts?”

    butt fumble

  39. montanamike2 says:

    With as much as it rains in Seattle i don’t think i could stand Tebow running around shirtless all the time. I honestly think he’d make an NFL FB,(with another team), but i don’t see him anywhere else.

  40. Tebow flat sucks, not coming here. The credit for the wins belongs mostly on his brilliant coaches in Denver, and his teammates, esp their no-name defense that kept them in the game by giving up 10-13 points a game. But Tebow actually believes he’s awesome, and deserves to start, despite horrible practices and a sub-50% completion percentage. Not gonna happen.

    Quinn is barely better than a dirt sandwich, and he’s better than Tebow. Josh Portis is better than Tebow, and Bobbyk knows this…he just hates Portis insanely. ANyone who would rather have Tebow than even their third stringer is nuts IMO.

    On Tate, you guys are nuts. Unless Tate gets into huge trouble, or regresses badly onfield, he’s safe for the end of his contract. The only way he’s off this team is if he tears it up this year, and then gets a big offer elsewhere Seattle cant match and he leaves–which is my nightmare. Ive never been so thrilled with a Hawks pick as when I found out we got Tate in the bottom second…

    Tate plays SE, people! Thats his main position, though they move him around a bit, and likely will move the WR’s around a lot more with Harvin in the fold this year. Harper is a much slower player, a FL who will make the team as a Special Teamer and backup FL behind Rice, if he makes it at all. Tates job is not in jeopardy, though he may play himself out of Seattle.

    No matter how Bobbyk screams Rice is a top 5 WR, he just isnt. He’s playing FL because he just isnt fast enough to burn defenses deep often enough to play SE, and he isnt tough enough to be a star FL either. He’s also got a huge contract. He may be a luxury by next year and I think he’s a good candidate for a pay reduction, trade, or cut in a year or so.

    But it all depends. If Tate leaves after this year (God Forbid!), we may be able to keep overpaying Rice and Miller. Lets face it, 7-8 million a year each is a very high price for what they offer, and how Seattle uses them. Dont get me wrong, I love Miller and I like Rice a lot, but they are just eating up too much cap space and money for how they are used.

    Now, Im not saying they will be cut/traded/salary reduced for sure, but it remains a logical possibility as SEattle begins to have to pay all the young guys big second contracts.

    I can see McQ getting cut/reduced salary THIS year depending on how the young guys do in camp/preseason on the line. Mike Rob?! Hard to say. I think he’s safe for another year.

  41. SkeleTony says:

    @HawkFaninOK

    If this were tennis or maybe even boxing, you would have a good argument. But since this is a TEAM sport you cannot give Tebow credit for being a guy who “finds a way to win”. For starters there is no such thing as a QB is is sucky for 58 minutes but then becomes stellar for the final two minutes of a game. That is comic book type fantasy BS there. Even the worst QBs who ever played will manage 2-3 good plays a game even with crappy receivers, TEs, linemen and defense. Tebow had extremely good receivers and defense and decent players at all other positions. That his 2-3 good plays happened to come at the end of several games in a row is just something that probability tells us will happen on occasion. Like the twin sisters who were both killed at the same time (on Christmas eve several years ago) in a head on collision with each other as both were on their way to deliver presents to the other. It happens.
    Tebow was not even that good really in those finishes in Denver. Defenses he was playing against fell asleep or made mistakes and his WRs made plays. The reason he did not get a shot with the Jets is because he could not play and they were desperate to win some games.

  42. dirtbiker_joey says:

    Anybody hear the John Schnider interview with Brock Huard this morning? Brock asked JS straight up whether Tebow could have a role on this team. JS said without hesitation, “ah, no!”

    Guess Tebow will never be here as long as JS is here:

  43. CHuck_Easton: Hear, Hear! I agree on Tebow.

    HawkfaninMT–The dropoff from Tate to any of the other guys at SE would be HUGE. The guy is pretty awesome, when they give him a chance. The other guys have proven nothing, even Baldwin. Baldwin just isnt as fast or strong or tough as Tate, nor can he jump or block like Tate. No one on this team can.

    I love Doug Baldwin, but he spent too much time injured or ineffective last year to be counted on just yet. Im hoping he can stay healthy and get his groove back though, I was about to buy his Jersey…

  44. Tebow as a full back in the NFL no! – as a TE – oh hell yes! I don’t think he will play TE so whatever.

    I don’t think we keep 5 safeties this year – too much depth elsewhere.

    Here is what will be interesting this year with the additions – who is going to step up and play ST’s and do it well. For the last 3 years people on here will be this guy is cut – they don’t care about ST’s anyone can play ST. and boom – guys like Farwell – MRob and others who play GREAT on ST’s make the roster in front of guys who could play it but not at the same level as these guys.

    EVERY team keeps a few ST’s guys – I just wonde who ours will be – that is the big reason why I think MRob is safe for at least this season – AND the fact there is not another true FB on the team.

    Baldwin may be the guy out in the WR competition, BUT I think it will be Kearse and Martin if Harper can catch the ball with any consistency – and he will take their place on ST’s

    I think all the RB’s that we keep – Other than Lynch – will be getting a lot of their PT on ST – coverage or returns

    I also think that the back up CB’s and LB’s had better be watch ST films, because that just might be the extra points they need to stick on the roster.

  45. oldmanfan says:

    I don’t think Red, Baldwin, Tate, or Robinson are locks.

    Too many RB’s, too few LB’s, we can’t have ANY LB’s injured and I’m not sold on our starting 3 even. Yes, we can platoon Avril at OLB, and even rush Irvin from there, but we don’t want either one of them to become a starting OLB.

    I know Winfield is good against the run, but this draft would have made me a lot happier if we had gotten a kickass OLB/Safety hybrid who was great at coverage, strong against the run, and capable of rushing the QB occasionally. Or at least a decent cover OLB.

    Christine was the one guy I was really hoping we would stay away from.

    If we are going to draft felons, I wish we had taken the honey badger to at least give us competition for punt returner. Golden fielding a punt is always an adventure.

    Arizona had a monster draft, Rams and Niners did really well too. I think we lost ground this weekend.

    Once again I hate Pete & John’s draft, hopefully once again they will prove me wrong.

  46. Dukeshire says:

    “uh, no.” Too funny.

  47. “My take is the battle is between Harper and Baldwin for the 4th/5th spot. Tate, Harvin and Rice are all locks.”

    Agree with that. And again, just no need for Tebow here. I don’t totally blame him for the circus that comes w/his presence, but it’s there, and a team this good has not need for that distraction.

    “Arizona had a monster draft, Rams and Niners did really well too. I think we lost ground this weekend”

    Got to factor in the whole off-season though. Did any of those teams get a guy as good as Harvin? Maybe the Rams got someone similar, but it cost them plenty, and we don’t know that their guy can do it at the NFL level, where Harvin has proven it. Plus, Avril, Winfield and Bennett. You have to add those 4 to the draftee list to get the full picture. I don’t feel like we lost ground this off-season when you look at it in total (plus Niners lost Goldson, Sopoaga and Francoise).

  48. bbnate420 says:

    You’re delusional if you think Red’s not a lock in 2013 if healthy. His entire salary is guaranteed. His cap hit would actually increase if cut. Neither Baldwin or Tate is paid very much. Locks as well. I guess Robinson isn’t a complete lock, but he’s the only proven FB we have.

    I also don’t think McDonald is a lock. He’s making 630 K and it’s not guaranteed I believe. I think they will keep 9 D-lineman. There’s at least a decent chance that Clemons starts the season on the PUP, so I think there’s a chance that 4 guys out of the 5 guys that are “In the Hunt” and McDonald make the 53 to start the season.

  49. I would not be surprised at all to see a veteren OLB get cut and picked up by the hawks at some point.

  50. SlickToxic21 says:

    I’m pretty sure the reason people keep throwing out Rice and Tate as players that might be traded….is that they can’t sign another receiver to an 8-12 million dollar per year contract, with Rice, Harvin…and Miller eating up so much cap room.
    I’m sure based on last year that everyone would want Tate signed to a long-term contract…I would…..but if he’s anything like last year, he’ll command more money than Seattle can afford to put into the receiver position.

    So if any of these young receivers work out….then there’s gonna have to be some moves made somewhere.

    Same with the DB’s….Kam got paid, and I’m pretty sure Earl’s gonna get paid. But if Sherman’s gonna want $14-16 mill per year….and Browner’s up before Sherman. They can’t pay all of them, so they have to keep the key ones, and keep drafting well.

  51. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    skele, sttbm, yes it is a team sport but those games in denver were won more often than not in the 4th final 2 minutes by tebow and his legs and horribly inaccurate arm. quinn sucks an doesn’t win period tebow sucks and wins take your pick but i always pick the winner.

    although Red is safe this year he may not be next year if williams can play his spot. personally i like the idea of williams spelling Red so red stays fresher.

  52. doubledink says:

    Tebow would transition to FB easier than TE imo. If he was willing to do that some team may give him a shot. If not, its the CFL or Arena League or go home.

  53. I think Thurmond was gone the moment they drafted Simon. I could be wrong, but there is little drama to be found sorting out the CB or safety groups.

    At WR, I think that Rice, Harvin, Tate, Baldwin and Harper are all locks. The question becomes how many WR will they keep. If they keep 5, these are the 5 and someone will have to be a special teams standout to force them to keep 6 WR.

    I will be disappointed, but not surprised if Red gets released.

  54. On oline, I think McQuistan stays because he can play 4 positions.

  55. SlickToxic21 says:

    Yeah, they can’t keep Thurmond, even if he has a healthy year. Unless he takes a substantial home town discount.

    I’m intrigued to see what Stephen Williams can do….I think JS/PC were pretty excited to sign him earlier this year.

    And I don’t think Red will get released this year….but I think it’s pretty likely next year….unless he’s willing to re-do his contract.

  56. doubledink says:

    Red’s ability to eat two blockers at a time on every down is what ensures him remaining on this team. We don’t have anyone on the team who has proven the ability to do that. Now maybe one of the young studs will to that this year, but I seriously doubt they will outperform Red in that area. Red isn’t going anywhere. They love him.

  57. Oh my freakingawd. Can we can the Tim Tebow comments please? We just had 3 days of NFL draft and people really want to talk about Tim Tebow????

    Just for the RECORD: GM John Schneider was on the radio this morning with Danny O’Neil and Brock Huard. They asked him if he had any interest in Tebow.

    He. Said. “No.”

  58. hawkfaninoklahoma–Youre giving Tebow too much credit again. They may have won in the final two minutes, but they wouldnt have been in that position if theyd had Quinn, as he would have scored more points than Tebow. Even garbage like Quinn is better than Tebow.

    Tebow might have been able to play in the NFL in the 1950′s or before, but he isnt a modern NFL qb. He just cant throw the ball far enough or accurate enough, and he cant read a defense worth a damn.

    On competition; its going to be fierce competing for roster spots this year. No more veteran holdovers who keep their jobs on past greatness, its put up or shut up and get cut every year now. Lots of young guys who flash in preseason are gonna end up cut, and will be snatched up by other less-talented NFL teams this year. Look for the Raiders to poach another DB from us like they did Phillip Adams last year…Some WR’s and a DT or two will end up doing well on other rosters too I suspect…

  59. bbnate420 says:

    Let me repeat it again, Red WILL NOT be released in 2013. Take that to the bank. His cap number is 7.6 mil in 2013, fully guaranteed. If they released him now, his cap number would go up to 10.6 mil due to the rest of his signing bonus going towards the 2013 cap. If they released him after June 1, his cap number would be 8.6 mil in 2013 and 2 mil in 2014. This is because they can spread the signing bonus cap hit over 2 years if they wait until after June 1. So, not only is there nothing to be gained monetarily by releasing him, but they would actually be penalized. The only way he’s not on the team in 2013 is if he’s traded, which I doubt. 2014 could definitely be a different story. It depends on what happens with him and Bennett in 2013 IMO.

  60. Enough of the Tebow talk.

  61. That last one was for you, Stevos! lol! (and you, TruBlu!) :p

  62. bbnate420 says:

    Tebow sucks. He’s not coming here, so who cares. He’ll be playing FB in NE or throwing ducks in Edmonton.

  63. I would bet Pete will keep 9 Defensive Linemen and only 6 LBs. This because both Avril and Irvin are being talked about as part-time OLBs.

    That would allow Clinton MacDonald, Jordan Hill, and Jesse Williams to all make the team. If they don’t keep 9 DL, one of these guys gets cut or waived and stolen by another team.

    I think the odds are very long that Jaye Howard, or Scruggs, or the new guy McDaniel make this team.

  64. tealskin says:

    hawkfanok, Guess I should just let you have your infatuation with TT. The way I see it- Denver’s defense kept them in those games and Timmy had luck(or God ) on his side because it wasn’t skill. Do we want a guy that’s always hitting his knuckles on the ceiling? Whatever he is, it isn’t QB.

  65. Stevos–You are right, it will be hard for those guys to make the team. But it will be hard for everyone. JS and PC have set up stiff competition at every position. As I said, some good guys are gonna get cut and then poached by other teams. Tough decisions on the way…

    But with McDaniels, having experience and now a chance to grab a starting job, and Scruggs coming back after a rookie year where he showed flashes, I think both those guys have a decent shot of making the team. We’ll have to wait and see–Carrol and company will let training camp and preseason sort it out. They have shown repeatedly that they dont care where you were drafted or if you were drafted or what they traded to get you, if you outplay someone, you get the job; if you dont, you get the ax.

    Howard, Hill, McDaniels, Williams and possibly Scruggs will be fighting for 2-3 spots. Williams and Howard may be PS eligible, but risk being poached by other teams for sure. Scruggs is like Bennett, can play multiple positions on the line. He could end up with one of the DE spots while Clemons recovers.

  66. yankinta says:

    Yes!!! Evan Moore is available again,, we should totally go sign him again with 1 Million guaranteed money. SMH,,, what a mistake that was!!

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/29/eagles-cut-evan-moore-add-nine-undrafted-rookies/

  67. SkeleTony says:

    Yeah HawkFanInOK, what STTBM said. And also as I said before, Tebow was more or less accurate for 2 passes in each of those games ‘he’ won in Denver. They just happened to be passes to good receivers who were able to score against defensive players who sometimes were not there.

    A good/great QB who averages two bad minutes per game? Happens a lot. A good/great QB who is somehow bad for 58 minutes but gets a magical boost in the final two minutes to win games? No. Does not and will not happen.
    A bad QB who gets lucky and as able to throw 1 or 2 TDs per game? Happens all the time. Tebow is THAT guy. His 1 or 2 TDs in Denver just happened to be in the final two minutes of those games.

  68. yankinta–It wasnt necessarily a mistake to sign Moore, but he surely didnt work out. He was a decent backup for three years in Cleveland, and showed potential. The Eagles just signed him, as you noted, so his talent is still getting noticed. He just better improve drastically in the skill dept or he will be back on the street before he can say Boo!.

    Cutting Winslow was an odd move; he played well in preseason. We probably will never know the exact thought process JS and PC used to decide to dump him, but it was probably a combo of his notorious tude (still somewhat evident) about getting the ball regularly, his mangled knee, and his unwillingness to take a big pay cut.

    As a cheaper alternative to Winslow, Moore failed. But Seattle won a lot of games and did quite well without both players. So it wasnt necessarily a mistake to take a flyer on Moore, the real mistake may have been in dumping Winslow. Or not.

  69. yankinta says:

    STTBM, how wasn’t it not a mistake?? The dude can’t catch!!!! Just watch, he will be out of the league this year.

    I really hope Luke Willson will grab the 2nd TE spot. I’m getting sick of McCoy too. That dude is too unreliable.

  70. montanamike2 says:

    I think it was Winslows knee that did him in.

  71. montanamike2 says:

    I still hope that Fells is the sleeper signing of the offseason, he should have good hands.

  72. SlickToxic21 says:

    Sooo many good problems to have! Love it!

  73. yankinta–It wasnt a mistake because he had potential. Not every player with potential realizes it, but there’s nothing wrong with taking a look at guys and giving them a shot. They gave him a shot, he failed, they cut him; Doesnt mean it was a mistake to sign him.

    Signing Mike Williams wasnt a mistake. Resigning him to a nice contract was also not a mistake, but the guy got injured and old and so they cut him. Drafting Mark Legree and Sherman in the fifth? Neither was a mistake–Legree was really good in college, and had potential. He failed to impress and was cut, while Sherman stepped up. Now, you think JS and PC thought Sherm would be All-Pro by his second season?! Not a chance. They thought Legree was better. Mistake?! Not really; there was no indication that Sherm would be THIS good.

    Its not a mistake to give a guy a look who has potential, even if they fail to work out. You gotta dig through some coal to find diamonds…

    Now, if they cut another guy to keep Moore, and that guy went on to be really good elsewhere, THAT would make it a mistake. A mistake would be trading for Tebow and then not even trying to use him. That was a mistake because either they had no real plan for him and only wanted the media circus, or their plan sucked and they had to scrap it. Any way you slice that one, a mistake. But giving a guy who had shown some potential a shot and then cutting him when he fails isnt a mistake. Thats what you do, give guys a shot and move on when it becomes apparent they arent cutting it.

    But yeah, Moore straight up sucked in games.

  74. Singularitarian says:

    Christine Michael is making the team for sure. Not even a question. I don’t get the hate of drafting a RB or the idea that it is a luxery pick. We are a team that runs the ball physically and we are one Marshawn Lynch injury away from a real problem. Christine will be a guy who can come in and run tough downhill and we need to know that the team will go on if Beast Mode gets injured. I like Turbin but I’m not sold that he can be a 20+ touch a game guy. I have to think the there is no way that Michael is not a lock. Everything we do offensively comes from the fact that we can run the ball with a F@#$ you atitude on any given play. Now we have 3 backs that can do that. I’m great with that. Great

  75. Jerrod Johnson is too big to be a QB.

  76. Michaels has great potential, but his immaturity and bonehead nature really sticks out when you hear him talk. I didnt like the answers he gave to questions at all.

    Still, it sounds like the guy got hurt, then was given a ration of crap by the new coaching staff who were intent on laying down the law and didnt care one whit about a talented senior they didnt recruit, so they went out of thier way to make an example of him. Im willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt for now. The guy could turn out to be a steal.

    I have to say there were other positions I thought would be addressed–even WR–with that pick. But if they thought he was that good, or they just didnt like the other choices, the fact remains they thought he was the best player available, obviously.

    And yeah, if Lynch gets hurt (back spasms?!), we need another back to complement Turbin. Personally, I think Turbin could be a Matt Forte-type runner and receiver with 1000 yards rushing a year and 500 through the air for the right team. I like the guy. But a classic one-cut and go RB with this much speed and power is nice to have as well.

    I think next year Seattle spends a high pick (first or second round) on a big fast WR. Perhaps Harper can take over for Rice in a year or two, we’ll see. But if Tate gets a big contract elsewhere, we better have a SE coming in to replace him.

  77. bbnate420 says:

    Michael will really have to ef up to not make the 53.

    yantinka, I thought you called that McCoy was going to be the best thing since sliced bread BEFORE the 2010 draft? ;-)

    STTBM, did you see that Andre Smith signed for 6 mil a year? Just sayin’.

  78. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, Williams and Hill are definitely PS eligible, though they would be ripe to get plucked. I’m almost certain that Howard is still PS eligible. I believe you have to be active for 5 games your first year to not be eligible. Therefore I think Scruggs may not be. I’m not sure how many games he was active. I think it was probably 5 or more.

  79. Dolphins UFA LB Carlos Dansby is still out there.(?)

    BobbyK: Assume you meant keeping RW playing for the full game if close. Never seen a better QB than RW in the last few minutes of the game, including Tebow. Assume you’ld like to re-create RW with the combination of BQ & T^2 in the event RW got injured. Love the outside the box thinking, but probably can’t play Quinn until the last two minutes and expect Tebow to come in and play like how he closed out the games he played in DEN. It might work, but I keep coming up with images of Kordel Stewart in PIT coming in near the goalline. I also know it worked for Kolb in our first game at AZ last season. Maybe.

  80. “Jerrod Johnson is too big to be a QB.”

    lol! yeah, these QBs over 5’10″ will never make it in the NFL.

  81. Don’t look now, but this morning I believe I heard Schneider say that in Christine Michael and Spencer Ware he had picked the “two best RBs in the draft”. Nothing like giving your coaches hard decisions to make. It may be the only real locks at RB are Lynch and Robinson, since he is the only FB.

  82. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    sttbm, so let me get this straight, it’s a team sport but he did nothing to get those wins? come on man you can’t have it both ways.
    if that was wilson you all would say wilson won the game, true?
    listen i don’t really want him here but he has won more games than quinn. saying it was the team it was this it was that blah blah blah
    he was the QB that won those games, the team helped but he was still the starting QB. i think some of you have something personal against tebow. which is your business but it’s clouding your opinions. personally for this O i would still rather have vince young as the back up, but that’s just me. quinn is a very bad QB and i have zero confidence that he could come in and win a game.
    if sanchez is released i think the hawks should grab him on the cheap and cut quinn.

  83. bbnate–I hadnt seen that. Smith has talent, but he’s like McKinney; damn near eats himself out of the league! Yeah, I have noticed that RT salaries are going down. So are G’s, DE’s, DT’s, CB’s etc…the flat cap is moderating the ridiculous inflation of salaries and putting things back to rights, at least partially. Whether that means RT’s are now less valued than G’s remains to be seen.

    You may very well be right. But until I see salaries broken down by exact position, and its a trend over a few years, Im not buying it.

    But hey, wouldnt be the first time I was wr-wr-wr-MISTAKEN, now would it?! lol!

  84. hawkfaninok–He sure didnt do much. The guy is utterly terrible at playing qb. It takes a whole team to carry that guy, and a fine group of committed, brilliant, adaptive coaches, for him to be successful.

    You cant tell me completing 2 of 10 passes in a game means he won the game and deserves credit for being a winner. Ive never seen a more inaccurate passer, and I watched every game our 2-14 season in 1992 with the worst qb play of all time (next to Tebow!). Tebows passes are the ugliest thing I have ever seen.

    There’s no comparison between him and wilson. Tebow has more in common with Mike Rob than Wilson. Tebow can run the ball okay. Thats it. Heck, I’d rather have Tate or Rice at qb than Tebow!

    Yeah, I hate the fact that Tebow if fake-humble passive-aggressive. I hate the fact that him and his idiot fans believe God gives a damn about sports and that he blesses that fool over the other 1600 NFL players on Sunday. But that has nothing to do with his failure as a qb.

    I watched him play, both in college and the NFL. Coming out of college, I kinda wanted him to succeed, just because I hate how entrenched the NFL is with certain fallacies (like short qb’s cant win). But in the NFL, he just sucks. It just takes too much effort by too many people to make the kid successful. AFter watching him play, I just dont think the success he had is sustainable over the long haul in the NFL.

    The Broncos–who should know best–believe that as well, and did everything they could to get Manning and dump Tebow.

    Yeah, Quinn is trash IMO as well. Sanchez and Young are too. Im gonna have to trust JS and PC on this one and hope like Hell Quinn never takes the field in an NFL game except in blowouts.

  85. I thought John Fox richly deserved coach of the year for winning so much with such a terrible qb.

  86. Where’s Charlie Frye when we need him?

  87. SkeleTony says:

    HawkFaninOK,

    Sorry but you are just wrong here. if Wilson played the way HE ALWAYS PLAYS, for 60 minutes, including the very last few passes of the game, then I would say teh SEAHAWKS won that game and Wilson was a big part of that. But this is not at all by any stretch of the imagination what Tebow has done. He plays like the worst QB to ever take a snap for 55+ minutes of every game but has 2…sometimes 3 plays where he executes fairly well every game. With the jets this resulted in one long run and one long pass completion (granted he was not the starter in any of those games) and with Denver this resulted in 7 wins. The majority of the credit going to the defense, RBs and WRs etc….you know, the TEAM who kept them within a score of winning.

    Again, TEAM sport. Put ANY single player against ANY NFL team and they will lose because it is a team sport. Likewise you cannot give all the credit for winning a game to any individual, even if he is Peyton Manning (let alone Tebow)! The WRs and TEs have to catch the balls thrown, the linemen have to block, the RBs have to run well the kickers/punters have top do their thing etc. But even having said that I would grant you some merit here if only Tebow had played like a Manning or Tom Brady or Russell Wilson. He did not. Not even close! He played like total crap!

  88. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Here is a definition of a true #1 reciever-

    Boldin- Last 4 games,(and most important games)- Colts, Broncos, Patriots, and 49ers.

    360 yards.
    4 tds.

    What did our best ball catchers do in their last four, (most important) games last season.

    1- Tate- 270 yards, 1 td. No way he gets cut or traded, especially with his punt return abilities.

    2- Miller- 223 yards, 1 td. Miller really came on as a go to guy for Wilson at the end of the season.

    3- Baldwin- 117 yards, 2 tds. Baldwin battled injuries and overcame them down the stretch. He isn’t going anywhere imo.

    4- Rice- 101 yards, 0 tds. #1 recievers step up when it matters most. This is why they had to get a guy like Harvin.

    5- Robinson- 56 yards 2 tds. One could arguably make a case that Robinson made more of an impact down the stretch than Rice. Robinson was targeted 6 times and made 5 catches. Rice was targeted 16 times and made 6 catches.

    6- Lynch-79 yards, 1 td. Targeted 8 times and made eight catches. Do you think Alexander and strong could do that? Lol.
    Lynch has great hands, maybe the best on the team imo.
    Not to pick on Rice because he does add a different look to this team, however just look at his last four games compared to old man Boldin. I just hope Boldin is not going to carry his great performances from last season to the 49ers this season.

    Now Chris Harper I’m very excited about. Could be a Boldin type. And I’m still pulling for Bates, who is much like Boldin too.

    Time to have some fun and watch this all play out.

  89. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    lol he was still the starting QB. you never know thou with a team like this i am thinking even quinn could win,

  90. SkeleTony says:

    Also, while Quinn may very well prove to be a bad QB, you have to keep in mind that if Wilson had been drafted by THAT Cleveland team then he too would be considere4d a bad QB whom other teams fans would openly demand their coach not take on as a backup. Quinn has not yet gotten a chance to play and learn under a good coach with a good team so the jury is still out on him. Yeah Cleveland lost games with him at QB. They would have lost nearly as many with freaking Tom Brady as their Qb! They were/are that bad!

  91. doubledink says:

    STTBM
    I don’t think you can just dismiss his time in Denver as coaching and the rest of the team winning for him. He made a real difference in that team when he took the helm. His teammates saw it and spoke about it.

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want him here. I never did think he was an NFL QB. But he has been a difference maker in winning some games. Your passive-aggressive comment reminds me of the double standard some have with male and female leaders who are tough. They respect it in men and hate it in women. Of course he is aggressive – he’s a competitor. If he wasn’t aggressive he’d be called soft. I’m just not convinced that a lot of the vitriol directed at him isn’t because folks just don’t like him – or maybe what he professes.

    As a NFL passer he’s on the low end of the talent pool, but he possesses intangibles.

  92. doubledink says:

    good info Georgia. Casts a different light, doesn’t it?

  93. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Ok, I’m trying to think inside the beer in regards to Tebow.
    Wouldn’t it be something if Tebow were to come out of the closet?
    What would his fan base do then? Lol.

  94. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    georgia i don’t see rice here after this year unless he takes a pay cut and stays healthy

  95. tealskin says:

    Georgiahawk, Regarding Rice. Don’t know what the deal is but it seemed as if Tate had much better chemistry with RW. Don’t remember how many times I saw Rice open and RW didn’t find him. Being thrown to 16 times in 4 games is grim for your supposed #1 receiver. I know he got open more often than that. Hopefully they get on the same page this season.

  96. GeorgiaHawk says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma-

    I agree.

    tealskin- Apparently Tate was smart to hook up with Wilson early. I really think that helped Tate save his career.
    I know last year that Baldwin spent much of the off season practicing with Flynn in Florida so he probably didn’t get the reps that some others got with Wilson.
    I would love to be the fly on the wall, or the bird in the bush to see who Wilson is practicing with most this off season.

  97. fijihawksfan says:

    Lem could be gone because Moffitt can play center and we’ll have guards coming out our ears if Carp is healthy and either of the draftees work out. McDaniel must regret signing with Seattle after we drafted two DTs.

  98. bbnate420 says:

    With regards to Rice, you’re discounting what Rice does to take pressure off the other receivers. Look, I’m probably as big a stat guy as any here, besides klm, but you have to know how to interpret them. It’s fair to have a discussion about the most valuable WR last year, but the numbers the last 4 games hardly tell the whole story IMO.

    STTBM, I don’t think that RT salaries are going down. They never were that high. I think salaries for most positions will remain fairly stagnant, with the prominent exception of QBs, if the cap stays fairly flat as it’s projected to. You’re right, I don’t have an average for OGs versus RTs, but the top guards make SIGNIFICANTLY more than the top RTs. I highly doubt there’s enough of a difference with the mid-level RT salaries versus the mid-level OG salaries to make that up. Name me ANY RT in the league you want. They don’t even make as much as the FIFTH highest paid OG.

  99. bbnate420 says:

    As far as Sidney’s contract goes, he has a 9.7 mil cap hit in both 2013 and 2014. He’d count 2.4 mil against the 2014 cap if cut or traded after 2013. I think whether or not he remains healthy in 2013 will be the determining factor for him here. If not, they may look to force him to restructure or release him so they can keep Tate. It obviously also depends on how Tate plays in 2013. If Rice is healthy and productive in 2013, I think they let Tate walk if he can get a big contract and they give Baldwin a good RFA tender.

  100. bbnate420 says:

    BTW, Sidney Rice caught 50 passes on 80 targets for a 62.5% average. And he averaged 15 yards a catch, so they weren’t cheap. That 62.5%, better than Megatron. Better than Brandon Marshall. Better than Reggie Wayne. I could go on. Just sayin’.

  101. bbnate420 says:

    BobbyK, where you at to defend your boy Rice?

  102. Can Tebow play outside linebacker?

  103. GeorgiaHawk says:

    nate, no one is saying that Rice is no good. And you are right that he makes other WRs around him better.
    When it comes down to big games his numbers go down for some reason.
    I for one hope he just knocks it out of the ball park this season and makes all pro. But it is nice to have Harvin there in case he doesn’t.

  104. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Rice made some incredible tough catches last year that pumped up the team. He was incredibly durable even though he took some wicked hits. I think he proved that he is a #1 on this team. He was very reliable and made some amazing catches. I don’t remember him dropping anything that was close. The Seahawks are a better team with him and his value is far greater than his cap number.

  105. FleaFlicker says:

    bbnate: if I recall correctly, BobbyK’s assertion is that Sydney is a legit #1 receiver; he never claimed that Syndey was a “top 5″ level talent.

  106. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    Mo, you can’t keep everyone and you don’t bring harvin in to be a number 2. although rice made some great catches so did tate an more importantly i thought tate was better after the catch. i really like the idea of harvin ,tate,harper and baldwin on the field at once.

  107. trout_hound says:

    Time for a retro flashback, Hawks circa 1985 vs Broncos. http://youtu.be/16sKX2zPqB4

  108. There was twice in the Atl. game where RW scrambled and Rice was open and on the replay it was pointed out that RW should have seen that.

    ALSO, the PC commented late or at the end of the season about how they need to target Rice more. “That’s on us”

    Anyway – I agree – I feel he is a lock this year and next year – not so much. (BTW – he was healthy all year)

    I think the 3 toughest competitions in camp (in no particular order) RB, DB, DL

  109. FleaFlicker–No, he’s claimed top-5 for Rice on more than one occasion.

    Bbnate–Im not saying Rice isnt good either–but he’s paid like a top 5-10 WR, and he isnt performing at that level, all things considered. And Im not basing that on stats alone, as stats only tell part of the story.

    Youre right, he’s been open and Wilson missed him on numerous occasions, but he’s also failed to get open when we really needed it most in numerous games. While not drop prone, he did drop several passes last year that made me scream. He’s also not anywhere near as aggressive when going after contested balls as I remember him being his one great year with Favre, nor does he seem to have the elite speed I thought he had back then to go deep. And while he played, he was nicked up pretty good and is still a concern, especially with his penchant for getting concussions from thin air, without even being hit!

    I think he’s far better than his numbers indicate, but he’s still not the all-around guy who takes over games–a number one WR. When its third and 17, and you HAVE to have the first down, and everyone knows its going to him, does he get open and/or make the catch anyway?! Uh, not…not really. Thats what a real number one does. Even Darrel Jackson could do that, and so IMO was more a number one WR than Rice has been for us.

    THat may not matter much, as Seattle’s offense doesnt seem to need one, not with Tate, Harvin, Rice, Baldwin, and Miller, et al. But for what he’s being paid (cap hit more than worrying bout Allens money), he’s just not worth it.

    Tate’s younger and tougher and still on the upswing; were I GM, I would keep him and let Rice walk if I had to choose, next year.

    I go back and forth with Rice, but he’s just not worth the money, IMO, though Im glad we have him as opposed to not…

  110. I understand also that Rice draws more coverage than the others, at least most of the time; but that may change in a hurry if Tate picks up where he left off and keeps improving.

  111. and who knows- maybe he restructures to stay here and everything is all great ;)

  112. FleaFlicker says:

    STTBM: I stand corrected! You make a good point re: the paycheck- he is getting top tier money.

    Got a feeling that the reunited Harvin/Rice combo will make both guys shine this year.

  113. I think Lem will make the team. I dont think Moffit excites anyone as a backup C. Dude better get it together, or he’s gonna be out of a job real soon. JeanPierre is a pretty good player, and IMO should have had a chance to play RG; I think he would have outplayed both Moffit and Sweezy. Cable and company decided he was too valuable as a backup C I guess.

  114. bbnate420 says:

    Flea, I never suggested that I or BOBBYK said he was top 5, just that he was a #1. Technically, if he’s one of the best 32 receivers, he’s a number 1. I don’t necessarily think he’s a top 10 receiver, but I think he’s close and certainly a #1. Whether or not he’s worth 9.7 mil will be determined after 2013.

  115. bbnate420 says:

    I just compared his catches per target to some of the best out there. That doesn’t mean I’d take him over Megatron, I wouldn’t. I don’t necessarily think he’s as talented as Marshall either. I do believe he has the stuff to be a top 10 receiver.

  116. Although we can’t count on those with any regularity, Rice did have a few big throws during the season as well.

  117. bbnate420 says:

    This isn’t really the place, but good lord the people that run the NBA are a bunch of chunks of excrement.

  118. bbnate420 says:

    Eric, is there another team that Sonics’ fans can dream of getting in the next few years? NO was bought by Tom Benson. I don’t know of any other opportunities. I don’t like trying to steal another cities’ team either. Howard Schultz should never show his ugly mug in the NW again. I personally will never buy another item for Starbucks ever again!

  119. Palerydr says:

    I have boycotted Starbucks since the day he sold the team not that Schultz or the malignant dwarf Stern care. It’s a small and petty gesture but it makes me feel good. I would rather we get an expansion team not take a team away from another city unless it was Oklahoma City. In my dream we find a legal loophole that forces the Bennet group to sell the team to the Hanson group and be returned to Seattle. That would be sweet justice for all IMO.

  120. bbnate420 says:

    Amen, Palerydr.

  121. The NBA sucks. They held the taxpayers hostage. Since when do taxpayers OWE rich asshats the RIGHT to not only make a profit off a losing team, but make a HUGE profit every year?!

    Same thing in Carolina, where that jowly jerk Jerry Richardson is insisting he’s owed taxpayer money for a new stadium (I guess teams need a new one every 20 years just because) despite making and ADMITTED $100 million last year! And his team has sucked–for how long?!–mostly becuase he’s too cheap to hire good players and coaches. (though his recent splurge on his own players of only modest talent is the exception that proves the rule).

    Honestly, I could care if the NBA ever comes back. Im done with them.

  122. montanamike2 says:

    I have been boycotting Star#ucks since Schultz sold the team to Bennett.
    Members of my family in California think that i’m unusual for my disdain, but last year my aunt told me she was a “Thunder” fan. I informed her of that she was a fan of the “Sonics”, and the 10 years of sucking we endured to finally get Durant. I tried to watch just a few minutes of NBA
    last year but there is a handfull of leftover stars from the end of my era and it’s obvious that the talent level just isn’t there. Now there’s a few powerhouses that the old Sonics could easily crush and not much else. I’m done with the NBA and only would support it if “my team” was returned to it’s rightful owner, the city of Seattle.

  123. Stern is a Troll. How those F’ers strung the Hansen group along is dispicable. What’s bullshit is that Sac doesn’t even have an arena deal in place, so what, are they going to go through this shit every couple of years, I just don’t get it, F Stern, F Schultz and F Nickles.

    Rice on the otherhand is bad ass. Can we put the durability issue aside for now, how many games did he play in, how many big hits did he take, how many drops did he have? How many side line grabs did he catch, how many fumbles did he have? How many times was he targeted? How many times did Wilson miss him? How many times did the D blanlet him? I think Rice is at least a top 10 wideout. I understand people are worried about his salary, but come on, you can’t question him as a big time reciever.

  124. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, don’t you know that tons of professional sports teams are losing money? Like the Miami Fraudlins of MLB. Oh wait, their books were leaked and they make a good amount of money even before their public-financed stadium. What did they do their first year? Suck like leach and sell off 99% of their good players. They’re maybe the only team more pathetic than the M’s.

  125. montanamike2 says:

    I think Rice will restructure to stay here, he may not be Megatron or Fitzgerald, but he is our best reciever and now that Harvin is here, he should be open more. I agree that Wilson and him need to sync up, hopefully he does this year.

  126. bbnate420 says:

    montanamike, I tried briefly to follow the Blazers after the Sonics were stolen, but it’s just not the same. I lost interest fairly quickly. At least we have the Hawks. The NFL is my favorite sports league anyways. Portland can have the sorry ass M’s for the Blazers straight up if they wish.

  127. montanamike2 says:

    I hear you, straight up Hawks fan now.

  128. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    how you all think i feel my man cave has a payton, kemp and fred brown jersey on the wall and i live in oklahoma.

  129. bbnate420 says:

    Do you follow OKC, hawkfaninok? My dad still roots for them. I just don’t get it. I don’t waste my time hating them, but I certainly couldn’t bring myself to root for them. Not that I have anything against anyone but that ass hat Clay Bennett and his cronies.

  130. Palerydr says:

    Well Hawkfaninokalahoma I do feel for you I was always a fan of the Celtics along with the Sonics so I made the switch permanent. I really have no idea how the NBA can make us whole again unless they give us an expansion team which would be the best solution for all. Of course that would mean less money for the current owners and as has been pointed out by others for the owners it’s all about the money. So I would expect no expansion. Fn selfish idiots.

    As for Rice anybody remember the hit he took catching the TD in the Chicago game? If that hit and catch wasn’t worth what he’s making then I don’t think the guy will ever be good enough for some of you.

  131. HawkfaninMT says:

    How about the SOunders? they could use more fans to pack the Clink on a regular basis, and those games are FUN! The crowd is great, and the tickets are cheap!

    There is also a nationally ranked football team from Washington curently midseason! Spokane Shock were the number 1 team in the country until their offense decide to take the 1st half off vs Tamp last weekend. Get on board!

  132. bbnate420 says:

    I’ve heard from some people I know that Sounders games are fun, but I’m not sure I could enjoy a soccer/real football game. Do they have cheap beers like the Tacoma Rainiers?

  133. The problem with the Mariners is the ownership; Nintendo sucks. Piniella begged them to give him $1.5 million more to sign a bat for the playoffs, and he knew he could win a world series; Nintendo’s answer; do the best you can with what you have. They are tighter than Ken Behrings purse strings!

    As long as they remain owners of the M’s, there will be no winning.

    Sounders?! Bleh! Who cares?! I cant help it, the only team I really give a damn about is the Hawks.

    Paleryder–That was a boss reception, and he’s damned lucky he didnt get seriously hurt. That was a brutal hit! Still, what he’s accomplished isnt worth what he’s paid, so I expected Seattle to take a FL in the draft to eventually replace him, and I expect them to draft another even higher next year.

  134. I know better than to feed this thread as it devolves into a basketball discussion… but…

    I was never comfortable with the idea of our stealing the Kings from Sacramento. It would not have been underhanded as what Clay Bennett and Stern did to us, but I don’t like it. I want an expansion team without the stain of stealing it from King’s fans. Money talks, and Chris Hansen and co will eventually get what they want.

    As for Starbucks? Starbucks did not buy or sell the Sonics… Howard Schultz did. Boycotting Starbucks does not punish Schultz, it punishes the 200,000+ people who work for Starbucks. Myself, I would rather support the good things some of those employees are doing, like buying more organic coffee or supporting free trade and safe working conditions in coffee-growing countries. Starbucks people don’t deserve to be boycotted.

    Howard Schultz can’t walk down a Seattle street without Sonics fans glaring at him. That’s his punishment. And WHEN we get our Sonics back, he won’t be able to attend our team’s games without getting booed.

  135. bbnate420 says:

    Starbuck’s employees are paid minimum wage for the most part. They’d most likely find just as crappy a job somewhere else IMO. I didn’t go to Starbucks much to begin with, but I won’t support them while that turd Schultz is still raking in the profits.

    And people having jobs doing something isn’t reason enough to support it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. That’s an extreme analogy, but I think it makes my point.

  136. bbnate420 says:

    I’m not really comfortable taking a team from another city either, but I don’t see the NBA expanding anytime soon, maybe ever. In a perfect world, that turd Bennett would have to give us back our team, but that;s not reality.

  137. bbnate420 says:

    *that’s

  138. STevos–Good points. I like your style. I dont exactly boycott Starbucks (I could give a rip about Sonics), but I avoid them when possible because their coffee quality has gone down the toilet and I am a coffee snob. Plus they went all corporate bland years ago, and I hated that.

    Their stores all look like the most boring office geek you know’s favorite place to listen to Phil Collins, Yanni, and Celine Dion (Ugh, Shudder…). Could it be any more white, upper middle-class and vacuous?!

    I agree that taking the Kings would have been a bad deal. I never liked that idea either–kinda a do unto others as they do unto you thing.

  139. HonHawksLSB says:

    I went to Occidental College and was attending a bball game in which Howard Schultz was watching his son play, his son played a few years after I graduated. I had a few adult beverages and was loudly voicing my displeasure with Schultz about abandoning the city which made his company millions and selling the Sonics to these hillbillies from OKC.

    We spoke after the game and he tried to tell me that there are things the “common fan” doesn’t understand about how business decisions like this are made and was very condescending.

    After that I am no longer a “common fan” of the nba, who cares??! It’s all about the NFL

  140. NFL-NFL please go post NBA elsewhere

    The more we talk about the WR’s the most interested I become in what will be a REAL battle in training camp – clearly they are going to have to make some very tough decisions. I think Martin and Kearse – know going in that they are going to have to work very hard and play well to get a spot

  141. OregonHawk says:

    I am interested in what Stephan Williams can do.

  142. WR is going to be a real scrum for roster spots–er, one roster spot. Baldwin will have to return to form to make the team, though Im confident he will. With Tate, Harvin, and Rice, that leaves only one active roster spot open. Its going to be fun to watch Bates, Kearse, and Harper battle for that spot. I dont think Martin makes the team, though Stephen Williams may have a shot too; we dont have a guy with that combo of size and speed.

    There will be many interesting camp battles for roster spots this year. I bet we get a couple surprises–a couple “locks” failing to make the team, and a couple young’uns scrapping their way onto the roster.

    I wonder if Seattle will continue to rotate folks on the practice squad like last year? I find their practice kind of shady, but I suppose JS and PC look at it as whats best for the team…no I in team and all that…

    HonHawksLSB–Shultz is a putz, I think that is a given. Anyone who thinks they are a higher class of human simply because they make more money is a waste of organs.

  143. STTBM: I’m offended, I happen to be white, upper middle class and vacuous.

  144. Vegas56–Lol! Im white as white too, (for the most part), but certainly not vacuous!

  145. bbnate420 says:

    xcman, get your panties out of a wad. This thread was dead. The Sonics talk hardly took over a thriving thread. I, and I assume everyone else, would’ve quickly switched back to the Hawks if someone put something new out there.

  146. i’m with you nate – I don’t see the need for blog policing of the content unless things get way out of hand or dominate the conversation. plus any chance to vent anger at stern/bennett/schultz, should be welcome on a seattle sports site. f-ing nba, breaks my heart again. I tried (and failed) to keep my expectations in check this time. still really miss having a b-ball team to root for.

  147. bbnate420 says:

    I’m with you, pdway. I’ve given up on the NBA now.

  148. The idea of true competition and the ideas of locks, on the bubble, in the hunt, and longer odds don’t seem to go together.

  149. About B.Quinn, there’s an interesting graphic showing the 2012 cost vs performance value of Quinn and RW. http://www.advancednflstats.com/2013/04/epa-production-and-cap-value-skill.html It also shows how Quinn was making more $$$ than RW and not performing anywhere near him. In fact BQ was the lowest performing skill position player in the NFL. Jimmy Clausen would be an improvement in performance and cost about the same as RW, if he was available.

  150. klm–Its ironic you bring up Claussen. I hated that guy for the same reasons I hated Quinn coming out of college–overrated player with a total asshat Jock attitude.

    I really wish Quinn wasnt on our team. The guy is crap. But he does seem to have grown up some, so I dont detest him as much as I once did.

  151. raymaines says:

    What’s an NBA?

    Separate from that, How about if we trade the Mariners to Portland for the TrailBlazers.

    Everybody that actually cares about the M’s could go to Portland on a train and everybody that cares about the NBA could cluster up in the SoDo district.

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