Seahawks Insider

Poll: Weigh in on Percy Harvin trade

Post by Eric Williams on March 11, 2013 at 10:54 am with 244 Comments »
March 11, 2013 10:54 am
Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Percy Harvin (12) rests during an NFL football game against the Seattle Seahawks on Sunday, Nov. 4, 2012, in Seattle. The Seahawks won the game, 30-20. (AP Photo/Greg Trott)
Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Percy Harvin (12) rests during an NFL football game against the Seattle Seahawks on Sunday, Nov. 4, 2012, in Seattle. The Seahawks won the game, 30-20. (AP Photo/Greg Trott)

Is the Percy Havin trade worth it? Weigh in and let us know in the poll below. Nothing has been confirmed yet, but according to reports, the Seattle Seahawks gave up first and seventh-round picks in this year’s draft, along with a mid-round pick in 2014.

In return the Seahawks received one of the most explosive playmakers in the game in Harvin. Also, Seattle likely will have to sign the mercurial, University of Florida product to a long-term deal to keep him.

Do you like Seattle's trade for receiver Percy Harvin?

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Leave a comment Comments → 244
  1. I was cautiously in favour of this when the discussion started weeks ago.

    My personal Harvin scenario included picking up Harvin while cutting Leon Washington and Ben Obomanu (I love both guys, but its time to move on). The idea being that Harvin will take the return duties from Washington and Obomanu is no longer needed because our first 4 receivers are now Rice, Harvin, Tate and Baldwin. And with one guy in and two guys out, we have a free spot on the 53 man roster.

    I’d like to see the other fall out, but I like it.

  2. Now, if we can upgrade the 2nd TE spot, we will be rockin’!

  3. Can’t answer the poll without knowing the contract. And its hard to answer “no” because who’s to say he will be a cancer in the locker room even if the Seahawks did give up too much in compensation?

  4. I realize Harvin has had some pretty bad Quarterbacking the past 3 years, but his longest career play from scrimmage in 387 touches is only 53 yards. I would have figured it would have been in the 80s, several times.

  5. seahawk44 says:

    Harvin only started 8 games last season, yet he had 62 receptions and was on his way to an MVP type season. Also, he can return kicks and play running back … as he was also averaging 4.4 on 22 carries last season.

    I do hope they keep Golden Tate on the roster because he has abilities to go after the ball that many wr’s don’t have. But I am curious that his only Twitter comment after the news was “About to go shopping” ….does that mean Seattle will be shopping him for a trade?

  6. You dont pay a guy 8-10 million a year and then have him return all your kicks. No way. He may return a few, but he wont be doing it all. Now, they may cut Washington and use Harvin back there sparingly, and allow a younger guy like Kearse or whoever to do the majority of the returns, but I think Washington is here another year or two.

    I still dont see the logic behind trading those picks and giving a huge contract for a little slot receiver with injury issues.

  7. What makes this trade even more puzzling is that Seattle could have spent roughly the same amount of money signing Victor Cruz, and they would only have to give up ONE pick, their first rounder, as the Giants have first-round tendered the RFA.

    Now, call me crazy, but drops and all, I would take Cruz over Harvin 10 times out of 10, especially for 2 less draft picks…

  8. If the contract is anywhere near, Fitz/Megatron money then I would trade my opinion to NO.

  9. I like Victor Cruz a lot. I actually thought the Seahawks might make a play for him, but maybe they figured the Giants would match any offer and it wasn’t worth it.

  10. ChrisHolmes says:

    Tate’s staying. He acquitted himself wonderfully last season and showed the progression you expect from a WR. He’s also tough as nails and makes all kinds of acrobatic catches. Listen folks – you can’t TEACH what Golden Tate knows how to do by instinct.

    What Tate lacked was polish in his route running and consistency in his performance. I think he grew in both areas this year. I saw a guy who got better every game and really showed some stuff late in the year. His sideline grabs were awesome.

    Getting Harven gives us a serious WEAPON at receiver, and a guy you can use from multiple formations. He’s not just a slot receiver – he’s a guy you can run the read-option with, a guy you can run all sorts of routes and different look plays with… He’s a DIFFERENCE MAKER.

    You guys are going to gripe about getting a difference-maker for the 25th pick in a mediocre draft and a contract? Wow…

    Guys like Harvin don’t just fall out of sky and into your lap from the 25th pick in the draft every year. Hell, they rarely show in FA either. We’re talking about having a 3WR set that now looks like Rice, Tate, Harvin, Miller and Lynch… RW from shotgun: GO. Try and cover THAT personnel grouping DC’s. Just try.

    Harvin is the type of receiver who is going to make Bevell’s empty-backfield 5-WR package absolutely nasty. He’s the perfect slot receiver in that package to run all those smash routes, crossing routes, etc… He’s our version of Wes Welker, except more explosive.

    Honestly – here’s how I value this trade: If I were an opposing DC, I just wet my pants. RW was deadly enough with Rice, Tate and Miller to get Seattle to the brink of the NFC championship game. Now I have to worry about Harvin too? Are you kidding me? I rate this trade based on how difficult I think it’s going to be to defend Seattle. The Hawks were already difficult to defend in the playoffs. This move raises the difficulty index A LOT.

    I get the feeling not everyone here has grasped the impact of the weapon we just loaded up. We had some good guns already, and really good trigger-man. Now we added a serious upgrade at a needed position.

    Take that 49ers.

  11. But when he was asked about Harvin before the Seahawks and Vikings faced off last November, Carroll couldn’t stop gushing.

    “I really think it’s the way that they’re targeting him,” Carroll said of Harvin on Oct. 31. “He has 80 targets right now and over half of those are at the line of scrimmage or behind it. So they get the ball in his hands, he’s run the ball 18 times already. He’s a running back at times in their system. They know that he’s a great athlete, a great player and can produce. They figured out ways to get him the football. I think they’re well ahead of what they were last year at this time. He’s so good you just have to showcase him and that’s what they’re doing. He’s averaging 35.7 yards on kickoff return, crazy numbers. He’s a fantastic player. He was arguably the best player in America coming out of school. So the fact that he’s playing with all the top guys and his numbers are on top of league, and that’s fitting.”


    Last year he had a 10.8 yard per catch average. But 8.9 of those were yards after the catch. WOW! I don’t think I have ever seen a ratio like that. For the first years of his career, over half of his yards per catch were yards after the catch. Tate was decent last year at 6.1 YAC of his 15.3 average. He’s been strong his whole career. Rice was not good last year at 3.4 YAC of his 15.0 average and has been weak at YAC his entire career.

  12. I think the added value here is Bevells familiarity with Harvin (and vice versa). We are *relatively* assured of a good fit. Picking up Cruz (or whoever) would be more risky fit wise.

  13. I would be surprised if Harvin doesn’t return all kicks, but I think that using Tate on punt returns is an option. I think Will Blackmon is backup for PR and KR.

  14. Yes, Tate. Rice and Baldwin all stay….. our top 4 WRs just got a lot better.

  15. raymaines says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see a couple more fifty point games next year.

    Draft for the defense and pray for the tight end position.

  16. I don’t see Tate as a PR guy – he has been given opportunities and for some reason could never grab that position and keep it. So, seemingly, and option but not a very good one

    I think YAC can be a very misleading stat. Some of it depends on how they target the guy and what they ask him to do. Yes you would like to see a higher number, but a guy always asked to be in crowded area are not going to have as much YAC as guys they are trying to get the ball to in open space. Each system, and each guy is different.

  17. Dukeshire says:

    Yeah, without knowing the compensation to Minn and the contract it’s difficult to evaluate. But he’s a hell of an athlete.

  18. Ambassador says:

    If I’ve learned one thing about JS / PC it’s don’t doubt them out of the gate. We are going to be a nightmare for matching up in a three or four receiver set. With Beast mode sitting in the backfield I can’t imagine a more exciting move they could have made. What is this guy, a top 5 pick if he’s in this year’s draft. Dr. Happy will fix the malcontentedness. I’m stoked.

  19. SPLASH!

    I hope they’re thinking incentive-laden contract! It could be that after Rice took that hit at the end of the game winner last year, they looked around at their remaining receivers, and said “ruh-roh”.

    Or it could be that this guy is Pete’s Reggie Bush that you get the ball to and converts third downs into first downs.

    Hopefully the Oline progresses so Miller can release downfield. Tough offense if everyone stays healthy.

    Bet the overs on all Seattle games next year, cuz our defense didn’t get any better today.

  20. madpunter88 says:

    This trade makes total sense. The Seahawks are going for it this season, they need a top tier WR, and the likelihood you get that kind of value late in the first round is slim. If you draft a WR that late in the first-rounder you are more likely getting a 2-3 year developer rather than somebody who scares defenses on day one. And the fact that he is only 24 makes this similar to getting a new guy on draft day. If you can turn a late first-rounder into a starter on day one with huge upside you have succeeded — and that is what they did here. Good move.

  21. WR Anquan Boldin traded to 49ers for a sixth-round pick.

  22. CDHawkFan says:

    Hated the news at first, now starting to like it.

    I still remember the reasons why we lost many of the games last year. Would love the Harvin move if;
    A) sign a FA DE, B) resign Branch, C) pick a DE in round 2, and D) hope Scruggs and Howard grow as players.

  23. lol, really?? Cruz vs. PH?? It’s not even a comparison. There’s nothing dynamic about Cruz. I am betting PH’ll have 2000 all purpose yards with 80+ reception for us next year. This is the type of move that will guarantee us winning the NFC West next year.

    It also means, playing at home, during the playoff!!

  24. If we win the Superbowl the trade gets my thumbs up. If not, thumbs down.

    Normally giving up draft picks AND paying presumed big bucks would have me fuming and during the 1st round of the draft I promise I’ll be pissed. Receivers are such a nightmare to evaluate though that acquiring a known commodity makes some sense. From people I have talked to that have seen a healthy Percy play(I haven’t) they do give him rave reviews. Pete re-pete-dly states that he wants his QB to act as a distributing point guard to playmakers and Harvin fits that billing. Guess I’ll have to get over the haunting memories of K-drop, Branch & Burleson.

    Plain and simple, this is a move to win Superbowl XLVIII.

  25. Boldin to 49’s for 6th round pick!

  26. Seahawks2620 says:

    Looks like the Niners just picked up Boldin. Really doesn’t scare me with our secondary though. Nice addition for them though.

  27. Arms race. This is going to be fun. :)

  28. Bolden makes another weapon for them, I am surprised that Balt let them go. He did a TON for them down the stretch and in the super bowl.

    Not the biggest years or catches, but yards and catches when they REALLY needed them!!!

  29. Yards not years . . . . .

  30. The Bolden thing = meh. He’s 33 and not getting much separation anymore. He’ll play third fiddle to Crabtree and Davis anyhow.

  31. Ewalters7354 says:

    Gosh I hate the niners!

  32. The Offense isn’t what kept the Seahawks out of the Super Bowl last year. They were among the best in franchise history over the final 10 games. It was the Defense’s inability to make the final stop at the end of the game and it’s been a problem for 2 years now with no end in sight.

    If you go back and study the last 10 or so Super Bowl Champions, almost all of them needed their Defense make a stop on the final drive at least once in the playoffs. Some like the Packers multiple times (at Chi to make the playoffs, at Philly, at Chicago, vs Pitt in the SB).

    If not for their Defense stepping up on the final drive of a playoff game, we might be thinking about Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning in a different light.

  33. I think I like the Harvin deal, but time will tell. I HATE that Boldin went to SF. I thought we needed a WR like him (albeit younger…like the kid from K State in this year’s draft), but so be it.

    Damn! SF just stole a little of the thunder that the Hawks were throwing down.

    Nonetheless…GO HAWKS!

  34. Adam Schefter: Las Vegas already has established SF and SEA — today’s movers and shakers — as co-favorites to win next Super Bowl.

    Personally, I think even without this move, if the Seahwaks are able to get the end of game Defensive issues settled, we could be looking at multiple Super Bowl Championships for the Seahawks over the next 5 years with Wilson as the QB. Not once in my 30 years of following the team, have I ever felt this way.

  35. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’m not concerned about the picks. As I mentioned before, there wasn’t much room on the roster for many rookies, let alone 10. The contract is the concern. Hopefully his demand for Fitz numbers was posturing to force a trade.

    It also means more 3 WR sets and less TEs so they better get a pass blocking RT if they want anymore value out of Miller.

    Harvin will return kicks. He’s a home run hitter and returners are home run hitting positions. He can also line up out of the backfield, so Leon and his $2.5M cap price is expendable. Added to Obomanu, that’s $5M alone to make up for a lot of Harvin’s potential cap value. Hopefully, it’s not much more than that.

  36. Compete. That’s it. This move gives us more depth/talent/options at WR. This off-season isn’t even close to being over yet. There’s plenty of time and ways to improve the defense too.

  37. I would think they front load the cap number for Harvin. Cap space isn’t an issue this year. But it will be an issue every other year after 2014.

    Although, this means that around $45 million of the Seahawks $123 million cap will be tied up in Harvin, Miller, Rice and Lynch – 4 players the Seahawks didn’t draft. It will be interesting to see how that affects the players the Seahawks drafted when they come up for monster deals.

  38. MoSeahawk12 says:

    Boldin for only a 6th….after what he did in the playoffs looks like a steal. At first glance makes our deal with Harvin seem way over priced. The two players are night and day in size, ability and attitude. I think Boldin would have thrived here and would have added some Beast mode toughness to our offense. Oh well. John and Pete have done right on almost everything so far. Gotta trust them again. Percy, hope you arrive without your attitude.

  39. ChrisHolmes says:

    @pabuwal – Agreed. Totally.

    @Cornutt – I was just going to say that. “Does this seem like an arms race to anyone?”

    Seems like the makings of really good rivalry for several years to come. Both teams with young, explosive QB’s, diverse offenses, playmakers at the skill positions, and suffocating defenses. Both teams are young and hungry.

    The 49ers are only going to make us better, having to compete with them at least twice a year.

    This feels like the early days of Ravens/Steelers to me. The league is going to want to showcase this matchup in the years to come.

  40. trout_hound says:

    Well, here’s what Adrian Peterson had to say in support of the trade:

    @AdrianPeterson: The best all around player I ever seen or you’ll ever see! Goes to Seattle! I feel like I just got kicked in the stomach. Several times!!!

    I also liked this from Michael Silver: If you believe that Wilson is better than Christian Ponder and Lynch is as close to Adrian Peterson as any mortal in pads and a helmet can be, inserting Harvin into the Seahawks’ huddle should be unnerving to opposing defenses.

  41. Bolden is old, slow, and was going to be released anyways. Not to say he’s totally done,but Balt did well to get a pick at all for him.

    Comparing him and PH though, doesn’t make much sense.

    I like that quote from Peterson…pretty telling.

  42. “I would think they front load the cap number for Harvin. Cap space isn’t an issue this year. But it will be an issue every other year after 2014.”

    Smart point, I bet you’re right.

    Yeah, Boldin for a 6th, does seem on its face like a better value deal production-wise, but he’s 33 and Harvin at 24, is a much more explosive player w/many more years left at a high level. Still, that is a solid pick-up for SF, at basically no cost whatsoever. He’ll be a useful player for them.

    Agree that we still need to find a lot of D-line help to solidify our contender status – but what a great weapon to give to our young QB. Interesting day around here.

  43. wazzulander says:

    Interesting contrast between the votes and the comments. The silent majority in the forum is clearly pumped about Harvin.

  44. montanamike2 says:

    Arms race for sure!
    STTBM i share some of your worries especially from a chemistry issue, i hadn’t heard the Golden Tate tweet but i think if they can get to a superbowl and Tate steps his game up because of this move, then we’re a better team. As for the Boldin move it shows we have to get better fast and Pete did stay young.

  45. This contract is going to be interesting – will it be 5 years $45m like Rice, 5 years $60m or even 7 years $100m?

  46. montanamike2 says:

    I voted unsure at this time.

  47. Here is Rotoworld’s take on this –

    “Within the next 48 hours, Harvin is going to get something just short of Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald kind of money. The Seahawks also gave up a first-round pick in the deal. The coaching staff is going to make him a focal point.”

    “Expect Harvin to line up with Sidney Rice in all two-wide sets. When the Seahawks go three-wide, it will be Rice and Golden Tate on the outside with Harvin working the slot. He’ll be involved in the screen game and even get a few runs.”

  48. Dukeshire says:

    Schefter, as usual, is wrong. Currently Seattle is the third choice at 8-1, behind GB and NE each at 7-1 and SF at 5-1.

  49. Dukeshire says:

    Whoops, corrections: NE 5-1, Den / SF 7-1, then Sea at 8-1.

  50. Dukeshire says:

    Even Rotoworld can’t see Tate moving to the slot.

  51. chrisj122 says:

    I can’t help but think Flynn will be dealt.

  52. Seahawks2620 says:

    The Seahawks definitely have some concerns along the defensive line, however the same can be said for the Niners. Without Justin Smith, not only did the entire D-line struggle, but the D as a whole was really hindered. Without him that defense takes such a drastic step back. Additionally, it appears as if they are going to lose Goldson as well as minimal cap space. They aren’t looking too hot themselves. Don’t be me wrong, still a great team but definitely in some trouble if Smith goes down. I like the Seahawks’ chances.

  53. freedom_X says:

    Tate has the potential to be an outstanding punt returner. Remember, he took his 1st punt return ever for 63 yards. His judgement was inferior to Leon Washington (tended to be more reckless) but Seattle had him returning punts in preseason this year.

    I’ve actually been hoping they would use Tate as a punt return man instead of Washington, but it didn’t make sense as long as Washington was on the team (who is very capable as well, and that’s Washington’s role on the team.)

    If Washington gets released, as some think, then Tate is the natural choice for punt returner.

    As far as Harvin is concerned, I’ve never been big on any wide receiver acquisitions being franchise-makers no matter what their talent. Not much track record. If the contract is front loaded (with base salary, not guarantees) then this can work, though I still don’t think Harvin is worth anything close to Megatron money.

    Look at all the money Seattle has poured into the receiving position (Rice, Miller) and still they only have average capabilities overall. And now Harvin makes a hugely disproportionate amount of $$$$ devoted to the receiving position. Odd way to structure a team.

    More important to me is whether the rumors of Harvin being a huge pain to handle are true, and whether Carroll can deal with it. Seattle does have a good track record here under the current regime.

  54. @pdway

    That link was f’ing hilarious! Thanks for the laughs.

  55. CDHawkFan says:

    Bolden for only a 6th was mostly due to his 7.5 million due this year, for a 33 year old. A lot for the 9ers to eat. Stops them fom doing much in FA. 6th sounds like nothing, but 7.5 for a guy wanting it all, or more long term could hurt them.

  56. Sarcasticus says:

    I wasn’t going to like their first round pick anyways.

  57. David Garrard has just signed with the Jets so I imagine the market for Matt Flynn is now down to Gus Bradley.

  58. Dukeshire says:

    If one looks at the money invested at receiver in a vacuum, you might feel that’s how Seattle has structured their team. But I don’t see it that way. This team is based on defense and running the ball. Those are the foundations. Receivers are complimentary pieces and in each case and including this, that’s how they’ve been added. Granted, Seattle has not had the best success at acquiring WRs in the past (Branch, Housh…) but Harvin is a bit different. This is a nearly complete team and his talent is rare, unlike the other two.

  59. sluggo42 says:

    It’s awesome. It helps the defense, cuz we will score much more

  60. I think freedom meant to say it was on odd way to structure the cap, given the receivers are complimentary pieces to the team / have average capabilities. It is likely Miller, Harvin and Rice will have a 2013 combined cap number of $35m or nearly 30% of the total cap.

  61. I selected “Mabye,” mostly because I Didn’t know Eric was an Arrested Development fan.

  62. Sarcasticus says:

    Now I just hope Tank Carradine is available in the second round.

  63. bbnate420 says:

    As far as the attitude concerns, it concerns me less considering that Rice and Bevell both know him well and presumably signed off on this.

    Tate has looked very good returning punts in the preseason as far as I recall. He didn’t hang onto it in the regular season, because they had Leon and Tate was counted on to play a lot on offense. I would think Harvin returns most of the kickoffs and Tate handles the punts. Possibly either a rookie 3rd RB or 5th WR handles the punts.

    I think Leon is probably gone. Obo was gone regardless IMO. Cap space can be rolled over, so keeping players just because they have the room in 2013 is ignorant. It’s not a use it or lose it situation. They may keep Leon, I won’t guarantee they don’t. I really didn’t see this happening so. Tate isn’t going anywhere in 2013 IMO. This may mean that they don’t bring him back in 2014 though, depending on the money he commands. He will be an UFA and Baldwin a RFA.

  64. piperfeltcher says:

    Miller’s cap hit is 11 million this year but drops to 6 mill next year and then to 4 mill the season after that. The Hawks have put themselves in a position to get a player like Harvin and still be in good shap cap wise. Love the trade as I watched a lot of Harvin the last 2 seasons and think his is a special player.

  65. trout_hound says:

    Still laughing @ pdway’s link from Deadspin. Honestly, after all those years of being a team like the Vikings with teams poaching our free agents because we wouldn’t pay them, or hoping some draft pick will pan out after three years (read: Tate, Golden) or wishing we had a real QB, we have a team that’s legit and money to spend. The window is pretty short, so the brass is all in. As a fan, I’m all in too. It’s good to be a Hawk fan. The only drawback to all this will be the high expectations. I’ll take that over the alternative.

  66. bbnate420 says:

    piper, it’s actually 10.8, 6.8, and 5.8 mil.

  67. bbnate420 says:

    But your point stands.

  68. sluggo42 says:

    Obo is gone, Baldwin is #2 depth, Tate returns punts, not sure who returns kick offs, cuz Washington is gone too.

    Oh happy day…

  69. bbnate420 says:

    You can probably count on all of the Hawks early picks going to the defense now.

  70. DanielleMND says:

    I’ll wait and see on Harvin’s contract and attitude, but we’ve added another playmaker for RW.

  71. bbnate420 says:

    sluggo, Harvin is one of the best kick returners in the game. I think he does at least some of the time. His value is in his versatility and play making ability. I don’t think you take that away by not allowing him to return any kicks.

  72. I won’t be surprised to hear Leon being traded for a late round pick…..

  73. Anyone wanting to compare kick and punt return stats, here is a link

  74. piperfeltcher says:

    I hope they solidify there O-Line next. I think when you find a Star QB you surround him with as much talent as possible. Wilson is the best QB Seattle has ever had so you give him every chance to grow and be sucessfull.

  75. chuck_easton says:

    Where is the vote for “I’ll decide if I like this trade or not AFTER the 2013 season”?

    Right now I hate it. Gave up too much draft pick wise. Now the team has to wait to the end of the 2nd round to try and find some D-Line help. And we don’t know how much money it’s going to cost to make Harvin happy.

    I reserve the right to change my opinion to loving the trade if Harvin and Rice combine for 2000 yards, 20+ TD’s and Seattle plays in the Superbowl.

  76. “You can probably count on all of the Hawks early picks going to the defense now.”

    Agreed. You figure the $ they’re going to have to lay out for Harvin’s deal is going to preclude us from going after an Abraham or Freeney too?

  77. doubledink says:

    It feels like a little bit of payback for them getting Hutch from us. He will be dynamic.

  78. Dukeshire says:

    blocis – That statistical analysis doesn’t support the consensus narrative here: that Washington is all but gone… Perhaps they do trade him, but considering Harvin returned exactly zero punts last year, and Tate has looked awful at worst and questionable at best with his opportunities (not to mention LW is still one of the league’s best returners) to simply write him off is a bit premature, IMO.

  79. I hope Harvin has 15-20 sacks next year. He’s a great talent, there’s no denying that.

  80. I’ve been interested in your opinion on this move, given your offseason articles and your knowledge of the Vikings and this is all you come up with lol

  81. Going back to the Easley thing, I know Sherman wasn’t old enough to remember him… but we all know about people in life who were around before we were even born that we want to learn more about and then, perhaps, talk about because of their unsung contributions to whatever.

  82. pabs – He’s so dang dynamic, it’s unbelievable. But I’ve never heard anyone say anything good about him that didn’t relate to his football skills. That’s my only worry. If you could put the brain of a Larry Fitzgerald into the mind of Harvin – this would 100% be a steal for the ‘Hawks.

  83. montanamike2 says:

    Lol Bobby i get your point, all i can say is wait until after the draft and pray.

    I reserve the right to change my opinion to loving the trade if Harvin and Rice combine for 2000 yards, 20+ TD’s and Seattle plays in the Superbowl

    Well said Chuck.

  84. Put Larry’s brain into the Percy’s mind? That’s some weird stuff right there.

  85. Sources: Percy Harvin’s lack of confidence in Christian Ponder was final straw for Vikings—sources–percy-harvin-s-lack-of-confidence-in-christian-ponder-was-final-straw-for-vikings-205048037.html

    Maybe all it takes is money and a top QB like Russell Wilson to get Ponder to act more like Larry Fitzgerald.

  86. From that article –

    “Wilson not only pushed Robert Griffin III for Rookie of the Year this season, but also happens to have a lot in common with Harvin. Both are 24 and grew up in the eastern part of Virginia: Harvin from Virginia Beach and Wilson from Richmond.

    In other words, they have known of each other for a long time and there’s enough respect between the two that Harvin likely won’t create more trouble. Wilson is probably one of the few people who can keep Harvin in line.”

  87. bbnate420 says:

    I’m not sure, pdway. I didn’t think they would shell out a bunch of money for a WR personally. I think they’re going to at least sign one D-lineman, whether it be bringing back Jones/Branch or going after one of the UFA DEs. I think they probably go after the vet DE that commands the least amount of money. It’s really hard to say. The cap is very complicated. We don’t know how much Harvin’s contract will eat up. They would gain approx. 6.2 mil by releasing Obo and Leon. How much over that does Harvin get? I agree with pabuwal that I would expect it to be front loaded. They could also free up 5+ mil by releasing Clemons, though I believe he would have to agree to an injury settlement. It will be interesting if nothing else.

    I think a big reason that they were willing to part with the 1st is that their biggest need is the D-line. This draft is very deep in D-lineman, but it does not have a lot of elite talent. Any elite talent would be gone by 25 regardless. It seems that they might not see a big drop off between the D-line talent that should be available at 25 and what should be available at 56. And that’s assuming they don’t move up. That seems to be what the draft evaluators that I respect seem to be saying about the D-line prospects.

  88. Chuck and montanamike2, I would add this:

    Seattle needs to play in AND WIN the Superbowl.

  89. Perhaps the single best pass rush move that could have been made was Quinn for Bradley. Apparently the FO agrees.

  90. montanamike2 says:

    Here’s hoping your right Galena

  91. bbnate420 says:

    Duke, I have been one of the biggest Leon supporters here, but I think it’s clear that Harvin is superior as far as kickoffs are concerned at this point in time. He had as many TDs as Leon last year in half a season and averaged 7 more yards a return. He has 5 TDs on kickoffs since being in the NFL. Leon had 4 in that period to be fair. And he does return punts too. I would certainly keep him if it weren’t for the money. 4 mil is nothing to sneeze at. I also don’t get why people were so ready to dump him without a replacement in place, but this move might necessitate it. I have faith that Tate would do a good job returning punts.

  92. Southendzone says:

    For all of you like me who are trying to talk yourselves into liking this deal, don’t read this take by Kevin Siefert of espn:

    The 3rd entry down titled “Percy Harvin: Got to be more to story”

    Basically makes him seem like a Titus Young level head-case. I don’t want to hear how “Oh but under PC he will be fine”. I’m starting to brace myself for worst case scenario.

    1) we pay him megatron money
    2) He never plays a down for us due to some fishy migraine headache BS.

    It’s OK because even with this I think we can win the superbowl.

  93. DanielleMND says:

    RW now has Rice, Harvin, Tate, Baldwin, and Miller to throw to, and Beast Mode in the backfield. We’ll have to see how it works out, but on paper it sounds pretty good.

    I still expect the team to sign a veteran pass rusher for a reasonable price. I never thought the team would throw massive amounts of money at a free agent pass rusher, so Harvin’s contract isn’t changing anything.

  94. bbnate420 says:

    I did read that Seifert article. It’s all just speculation and conjecture based on the fact that he doesn’t believe that the Vikings would move Harvin for this price unless there’s more to the story. Color me unimpressed.

    If you’re going to judge this move a failure unless they win the SB in 2013, prepare to be disappointed in the move. That’s a pretty narrow definition of a successful trade. It also relies on the false assumption that they would win the SB if they made some different moves instead of this. We will never know. I think it’s worth it if he stays relatively healthy and isn’t a cancer.

  95. Duke….. Yes, I noticed that Harvin shows no punt returns last year. None in 2011, 2010 or 2009 either. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

    My guess that Washington and Obomanu are are on the way out is based on money, roster space and an assumption that it doesn’t make sense to keep Washington as a 3rd string RB and to return punts.

    My guess is Harvin, Tate, Blackmon or someone else will return punts. My first note on this thread said I am ‘waiting to see the rest of the fall out’ – release / trade of Obomanu and Washington is what I meant.

  96. bbnate420 says:

    DanielleMND, you’re right that this may not change which UFA DEs they go after, but it certainly does change the landscape. To what degree depends on his new contract. It means less money now and in the future for other things. That’s undeniable.

  97. And just to keep it real….. the only part of my speculation that has actually come true is that we have apparently acquired Harvin. My guesses about Obomanu and Washington are still just guesses.

  98. Dukeshire says:

    bbnate – I understand your point and there’s certainly some validity to it. Regarding kickoffs, Seattle has the best of all worlds right now. But regarding punts, they have only one player: Washington. Is a 3rd RB and punt returner worth what Leon is scheduled to make next year? Good question. All I’m saying is there’s an important place still for Washington here. Especially considering Harvin has a history of health (staying healthy)issues. I’ll say this: great problem to have isn’t it?

  99. Dukeshire says:

    Southendzone – Remember, he played with both Rice and Bevell. I’m presuming they know him better than Siefert, and Bevell certainly *had* to have been consulted prior to them even inquiring.

  100. A little digging and I found that in 2011 Will Blackmon returned
    6 punts, with an average of 4.2 yds and a long of 16 yds and
    2 kick-offs with an average of 21.5 yds and long of 32 yds.

  101. Dukeshire says:

    Washington’s cap hit is less than I thought, actually. 2013 was a good year for the team for him to take a “pay cut” in his deal.

  102. I’m thinking Will Blackmon isn’t our future at PR.

  103. RW gets a shiny new toy! I really didn’t think we’d pull the trigger on this deal, but I’m starting to warm up to the idea.

    I do really like how Schneider prefers to wait for young FAs before he opens up the checkbook.

    The 49ers can have Boldin and his contract.

    Next…a little bolstering on the OL, TE, and depth…and we’re looking at starting offense for the NFC Champs next year.

    Free agency hasn’t even started….Here’s what we need…DE, DT, LB, and Safety. We have 8 draft picks and all of FA to figure the rest out!

    Is it only March?!

  104. bbnate420 says:

    Duke, I made the same point about Rice and Bevell. I would think that we must be correct about his. Doesn’t mean he won’t turn into a pain in the ass, but it gives me more confidence that he won’t here.

    Blocis was the one that asked about Leon being worth it for a 3rd RB and punt returner, but it is a good question. It is a good problem to have for sure. I wouldn’t have an issue with either them keeping or releasing Leon. I’d like to have him, but the FO certainly has much more advanced and accurate projections of the cap moving forward the next few years than I do. I’m not in favor of keeping both Harvin and Leon if it hurts their chances to retain important players in the future. It would be great if he would accept less money to stay, or maybe moving some of it to incentives to protect themselves if Harvin can’t return kicks.

  105. piperfeltcher says:

    Now sign a guard and a RT in free agency to solidify the O-line and go defence in the draft.

  106. raymaines says:

    All this happy cap talk makes me miss Idzik

  107. Southendzone says:

    BBNate: I agree with your take on the definition of success for this trade. I see it as a high risk/reward potential.

    The safe move would have been to keep the pick and build through the draft and mid-level free agents.

    The other side of Siefert’s argument that he was a problem with Childress, Frazier, and Ponder is that he had to play on a team under/with

    CHILDRESS, FRAZIER, and PONDER!! Maybe having a problem with those clowns is a good sign?

  108. raymaines says:

    I just now noticed that the TNT hasn’t figured Daylight Savings Time out yet

  109. bbnate420 says:

    If you think they’re going to spend the money to “solidify” G and RT in FA, you just might be delusional.

    Then again, I didn’t see this happening. My jaw would hit the floor if they sign any other big contracts in FA.

  110. piperfeltcher says:

    From what I have seen of Harvin he is super competitive and lets his emotions get the better of him sometimes. He would get frustrated with Ponder throwing the ball into his feet and his body language was terrible at times. He did not come across as a me 1st type of player as he was always happy when AP was having a huge day and they were winning just as a player that was a bit immature and hated to lose so hopefully he causes no problems in seattle.

  111. DanielleMND says:

    “Free agency hasn’t even started….Here’s what we need…DE, DT, LB, and Safety. We have 8 draft picks and all of FA to figure the rest out!”

    At S, we could probably bring back Atari Bigby for a reasonable price if we want a veteran for depth/to compete against our young backups.

  112. freedom_X says:

    Kevin Seifert strikes me as something of an NFC North homer. He whined about the Monday Night Packers/Seahawks call for months and only shut up when the 49ers decisively proved Green Bay wasn’t going to any Super Bowl, blown call or no.

    I think he does have a point about Harvin being a huge pain – otherwise Minnesota wouldn’t have traded him. Whether Carroll and Schneider can work with Harvin is the big question, and we’ll know a lot of when we see the contract Harvin signs. I heard the trade is conditional on signing Harvin – anyone else able to confirm that?

    I can’t believe Seattle would give Harvin Megatron money. That would just be out of line with the rest of their team. I have to think (hope?) that the Megatron money demands Harvin is claimed to be making, is a reaction to him staying in Minnesota.

    It’s interesting to hear Harvin a transformational talent – that’s what Rice was called three years ago. How is it that Minnesota didn’t make it to a Super Bowl with two so-called transformational talents at receiver (Rice and Harvin) plus two other proven (All-Pro) talents on offense (Peterson and Favre?)

  113. RDPoulsbo says:

    I don’t expect Harvin to return punts, but $2.5 mil this season for a guy who will only be valued as a punt returner isn’t value. Yes, the cap isn’t an issue this year, but it will be in another year or so. Cap saved now can be rolled over to deal with soon to be FAs like Browner, Kam or Thomas. It could also help clear space to still be players in free agency and still get someone like Abraham or Freeney on one year deals.

  114. piperfeltcher says:

    Lots of RT out there right now that would be a upgrade so I fully expect the Hawks to sign one. I would love to see them add another guard as well and get rid of McQ as an improved O-line will just help Wilson get better.

  115. bbnate420 says:

    South, I agree that this is a high risk/high reward move. Time will tell if it was the right thing to do. I wasn’t really sure if I wanted them to do this when it was debated a few weeks ago, but I am starting to warm up to it. I didn’t think they would invest the money to get Harvin.

  116. edstang45 says:


    I was and am still a bit shocked when I heard the news this am….1st thought was whaaaaat!!! when I heard 1st rounder for Percy Harvin…Ist rounder ARRRgh!!!!! Then thought about it a bit calmed down a bit, and I gotta say, I trust these guys, PC and JS. They are working their plan not this blogs, thank goodness lol. I didn’t see a 1st round pick used on the offense, Most opinions have been Defensive pressure, and a game breaker at WR for this year. Well we just used our 1st round on a wr, so I’m trusting they didn’t see a DE,or DT at the 1st round pick. I gotta believe at the end of the day we will end up with our Pressure guy(s).. I do think that Schnieder is a genius at this time of year, so sit back and don’t jump the gun….This is probably the beginning of another great off season …just watch this guy work!! Go Hawks

  117. Dukeshire says:

    I don’t know that Seattle needs a safety. They have Guy behind Kam and Maragos behind Thomas. Personally I’m comfortable with that.

  118. DanielleMND says:

    For all the talk of Harvin being locker room trouble, Adrian Peterson seems pretty upset that he was traded away.

  119. Dukeshire says:

    bb – Yeah, sorry about that. Blocis and I posted at nearly the same time. Posts are flying here, tough to keep it all straight…

  120. bbnate420,

    “If you’re going to judge this move a failure unless they win the SB in 2013, prepare to be disappointed in the move…”

    Well sure, but that SB has already been played… The Ravens won. jk

    IMHO our measure for everything Seahawks is predicated on winning the New York Superbowl. Is that a narrow goal for success? Absolutely, but luckily that is where this franchise is at.

  121. Dukeshire says:

    New York Super Bowl sounds pretty damn good to me!

  122. bbnate420 says:

    piper, yes, there are a number of upgrades at RT in FA, but they have to be able to AFFORD them. They could sign one if they release Breno AND McQ, but they severely hurt their o-line depth if they do that. And they have bigger issues to resolve than the o-line IMO. Time will tell who’s right. They’re going to have to release Breno and McQ soon if they want to make a play on a FA RT.

  123. I’m already thinking about going to NY for it. The tix will be insanely priced and all but you went did you not Duke to the Motorcity-fixed-for-Bettis-Bowl? I’ll ask you about the experience on a day when this board is a bit slower.

  124. DanielleMND says:

    “How is it that Minnesota didn’t make it to a Super Bowl with two so-called transformational talents at receiver (Rice and Harvin) plus two other proven (All-Pro) talents on offense (Peterson and Favre?)”

    Twelve men in the huddle when they just needed to run the ball and kick a field goal. Backed up, they had to pass, and it was picked off on a poorly thrown ball. Also, the Saints got away with several illegal hits on Favre that should have resulted in 15 yards more for the Vikings each time. None of that is on Rice or Harvin.

  125. piperfeltcher says:

    The Hawks have roughly 18 mill in cap space minus whatever they pay Harvin. They free up 2 mill by cutting Obo and 3 mill by cutting Breno so more then enough cap space to add a couple more players.

  126. bbnate420 says:

    Duke, no problem. I was just attributing it to him.

    Galena, I consider next year’s SB the 2013 one since it is the title for the 2013 season. And yes, I see you were joking. I think the team is at a point that you can consider the SEASON less than a success if the team doesn’t win the SB, but that’s much different from grading the TRADE based on that criteria to me. Most of the reason that the Hawks will either win the SB or not will not be differently attributed to Harvin. That’s my point.

  127. Looks like Wilson will have the same talent Favre had in ’09. Lets see if Wilson can put up the same numbers. Mr. Happy is going to let Bevell open this offense up. “Book it.” Wilson proved by late in the year that he’s a franchise guy and games are going to get called as if he’s a franchise QB. I guarantee, barring injury, that Wilson has over 1,000 more yards passing next year. The Beast is still going to run for 1,500 yards, too. It’s like they are going to forget about him.

    Time to sign John Abraham. And resign Jason Jones (*IF* healthy). Then I’ll “book” my flight to New Jersey!

  128. bbnate420 says:


  129. “The 3rd entry down titled “Percy Harvin: Got to be more to story” ”

    The thing that Seifert story basically didn’t address is the fact that Harvin had made it pretty clear that he wasn’t going to re-sign after the ’13 season, so Minnesota was looking at getting no return for him if they waited. Not that hard to understand.

  130. bbnate420 says:

    piper, the figure I just saw is 17 mil. And most of that space is from space that was rolled over from the 2012 cap, which points out why they won’t just spend cap space simply because they have it. As I have pointed out before, cap space isn’t a use it or lose it proposition. If it was, I would agree with you. Whatever they save now can be used to resign the litany of players that will be up for new contracts in the coming years. And any further money they spend in FA I would expect to go to the D-line. They’ve already had 2 D-lineman visit lately.

  131. “It’s NOT like they are going to forget about him.”

    Re: BEAST

  132. bbnate420 says:

    I watched the 2010 NFC Championship between the Vikings and NO. It seemed like the Vikes got the Hawks SB 40 officiating treatment, though I can’t remember the specifics right now. There was also the bounty-gate issue.

    Very good point, pdway. Not to mention that he could’ve held out the first 10 games if he was really serious about not playing for the Vikings.

    Someone mentioned that RW is from Richmond and Harvin from Virginia Beach and that they must know each other. They may have played in HS, but I have family in Virginia. Richmond and Virginia Beach are about as related as Seattle/Tacoma and Spokane are.

  133. chrisj122 says:

    Don’t know if I’m totally sold on this deal yet but I feel better about it now than earlier. Maybe reality set in and I figured I might as well go with the cup half full mentality.

    Regardless this beats the hell outta talkin about a meaningless conversation between Richard Sherman and Skip Bayless on ESPN.

  134. freedom_X says:

    I’d have liked Seattle to inquire about a Elvis Dumervil trade. At least get the rumor out there. Then, Elvis is likely to hold firm like Anquan Boldin and not take a cut, thus forcing a trade.

    If Dumervil could be had for a 2nd plus some mid-round change, I think I would have preferred that over the Harvin trade (because I don’t think Seattle could have done both from the salary cap perspective.) I don’t know what Dumervil’s cap number is.

    But again, we’ll see when Harvin signs. If he doesn’t demand Megatron money from Seattle, it could mean more space for another move plus an indication Harvin wants to be part of Seattle’s team and thus won’t be coming in as a person with a chip on his shoulder.

  135. Not sure why some are seeing this as a high risk move….. his performance is undeniable. He has worked with Bevell and Rice before. If the medical checks out, wheres the risk?

  136. RDPoulsbo says:

    For all that Wilson did last year, it’s still a run first offense with Lynch as the focal point. The Harvin trade is a sign of transforming the offense into something more dynamic while protecting against age and lower production from Lynch. To be a better passing team, they have to get better at pass protection. They just can’t rely on Wilson escaping the pressure time and again. If they do that, they should be able to withstand a dropoff of defensive pressure by putting up 30+ points a game and Harvin would be more than worth it.

  137. bbnate420 says:

    Besides obviously just waiting to see how it plays out on the field, I think the contract means a lot as far how this move should be perceived. He’s not worth Megatron money to me, but he’s worth whatever Mike Wallace will command.

  138. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    7-8 mill a year or send him packing if they don’t make a deal in 48 hours the trade is null. play for a winner or go back to Minnesota.

  139. bbnate420 says:

    blocis, injury and attitude history. I don’t think anyone is questioning his talent or production if healthy. Like I said, I have less worry about the attitude with him getting a new contract and having Rice and Bevell here. He had only missed 3 games in the 3 seasons before 2012, but he seemed to be dinged up a lot. It seems to be suggested in the media that he didn’t return last season because of his issues with the coaches/FO and not juust because of the ankle injury.

  140. Others speculating on the loss of Washington and Obomanu as impacts to signing Harvin.

  141. Seahawks2620 says:

    Two things: Word is the Hawks are shopping Leon, and the other being that it appears as if Harvin will be averaging more than 12 million a year. Wow.

  142. It’s a risk because its quite possible Harvin will command something on the order of 7 years, $80-100 million with $20-25 million guaranteed, the largest contract in franchise history. I am guessing they are still negotiating the contract.

  143. Injury wise….. I trust that he will get a full medical exam to prove he is healthy right now. No one can tell the future. Remember Rices medical history? It was troubling too, but maybe not so much anymore.

    Attitude wise, I have said right from the beginning (weeks ago) that we should rely on Bevell (and maybe Rice) for their thoughts on his attitude. If Seattle wants him, Bevell must have signed off on the attitude issue.

    So….. I don’t see much risk.

  144. Moneys not a risk – its a commodity.

    If he wants more than we will pay the deal won’t get done. So moneys not a risk (IMO).

  145. I read the Seifert article the guy is a total douche bag, he kept the Tate “TD” story going all year. Anyone that uses that to assess this trade needs therapy. We have gotten RW a weapon that will lossen up our opponents D next year, super bowl #1 next year.

  146. RDPoulsbo says:

    For everyone complaining about Seifert, just remember that he’s the NFC North blogger for ESPN. He has a specific audience he caters to. It’s no different than Sando for the NFC West blog or Eric here for TNT.

  147. chuck_easton says:


    Have to disagree with you on that. The only way this trade happens is Seattle has already agreed to redo Harvin’s contract.

    If they can’t come to a number Harvin likes it’s not like the trade is voided. Seattle just gave up those draft picks for a guy that will hold out on them like he threatened to do to the Vikings.

    Seattle now has to pay the premium or they get royally screwed over in this trade.

    Look for Harvin to be well north of 10 million a season and possibly 12 a season. It’s not my money but that pretty much means the team loses Browner, and/or Sherman, and/ or kam, and / or wright.

    Team can’t tie up 25% of the cap in three receivers. The other guys are going to want to get paid too.

  148. Dukeshire says:

    This trade will not prevent Seattle from re-signing Sherman, Kam, or Wright. Browner perhaps simply due to his age. There are going to be some difficult decisions ahead, but cornerstone players like Sherm will not be sacrificed.

  149. DanielleMND says:

    “With one move, Seattle has become the team to beat in the NFC. Not just the NFC West. The entire conference. Percy Harvin makes the Seahawks that good, that relevant and that dangerous.” – Ashley Fox on

  150. freedom_X says:

    The risk? See New York (Jets), Redskins, Cowboys (though those teams got an extra penalty on them), etc. Any team that’s taking an axe to their roster now because of cap problems. Even Denver (as they ask a very productive pass rusher like Dumervil to take a pay cut.)

    In other words, the risk is seen on teams that go over the cap constantly due to “go for it now” flashy signings, then have to gut their team because they miscalculated. If we get Megatron for Megatron money, that’s OK.

    Even if he is Calvin Johnson, I contend that receivers are far from the most decisive positions on the team. Yet Seattle seems to be spending most of their money at that position. Odd. But Seattle has been hitting big on unorthodox approaches, I have to admit.

    But there is a signficant risk. The question is whether it’s worth it. Because I tend to devalue the receiver position, relative to others, I say no, not if it’s for franchise-record, Megatron money. I just don’t think Harvin can make that much difference. If he gets S. Rice money (8-9 million)

    And, does anyone really think he’s a talent equal to or superior than Calvin Johnson?

    I guess it’s OK if it’s front loaded to use up 2013 and 2014 cap space then drop off. Not sure if salary cap rules can make that work. Harvin would have to trust the Seattle front office a bit though, because he’d only be certain of getting year one of the front-loaded contract. If he imploded in year 2, Seattle could cut him. Seattle can’t guarantee it or the hit gets evenly distributed (and impacts heavily for the duration of the contract.)

  151. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chuck way i understand it part of the deal is hawks/ harvin have to agree on deal within 48 hours or deal is null and void to give them a chance to shop him again. oh and has to pass a physical.

  152. freedom_X says:

    Correction to my post: “If he gets S Rice money, I think it’s acceptable.”

    Sando is much more balanced than Seifert. Sando points out when the NFC West teams blow it or mess up against non-division teams. Seifert tends to apologize for the NFC North teams and complain that they’re getting shafted when things go bad for them.

    I guess Seifert thinks he needs to flatter those teams to get inside information.

  153. Yes this is true RDPoulsbo he is the NFCNorth blogger but the way he kept the Tate TD story going all year was disgusting. It faned the flames of hate our way for something we had no control over, that is not jounalistic integrity, show me one example of the same from Sando.

  154. Southendzone says:

    Chuck I think you’re totally wrong on that one. All reports I’ve read are that the trade is contingent upon them coming to a new contract with him for it to go through.

    I can’t see any possible way that Hawks get stuck with a post trade holdout.

    There’s a lot I don’t like about this trade and it is risky but when you say

    “If they can’t come to a number Harvin likes it’s not like the trade is voided. Seattle just gave up those draft picks for a guy that will hold out on them like he threatened to do to the Vikings.”

    I believe this is an impossible scenario under the terms reported for the trade.

  155. don’t look now, but on the day we got better at WR, the Niners go better at WR by trading for Anquan Boldin. Big moves by both teams. Its going to be a war between these two teams this season.

  156. Vegas loves it! Co-favorite for the Super Bowl (espn sando)

  157. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    jason cole tweet, hawks interested in dezmond bryant.

  158. Chuck, I think we are in agreement – not disagreement.

  159. Desmond Bryant would be awesome…..

  160. that’s good to hear, oklahoma. Let’s go get Dez.

  161. chuck_easton says:

    La Canfora tweeted Seattle is going to give Harvin 12 million a year.

    Colour me totally unimpressed.

    For those numbers he better have 2000 receiving yards and 20 TDs. Anything less and he’s way overpaid.

    Really not going to like this trade when we start losing key guys on defence because we can’t afford to keep them.

  162. montanamike2 says:

    We got younger and more dynamic.
    If we go to the SB in NY then i’m not missing that for the world!
    If we get Bryant then we’re heading in the right direction.

  163. RDPoulsbo says:

    Siefert is just playing to his audience, so I pretty much ignore those rants. Besides, while people here still fume about the Hutchinson poison pill, it’s been the Seahawks that keep stealing the NFC North’s milk money of late. Just savor the tears of bitterness and enjoy their deliciousness.

  164. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chuck i think you are missing the point on harvin you bring him in 1 to be dynamic 2. make 2-3 game changing plays 3. most importantly open things up for others. i would be happy with 1000/10 and better years out of tate/rice. let us just say he adds 1000 yards to wilson’s yards and 5 more Td’s.

    now add dez bryant and draft well and we are in the super bowl baby!

  165. 12M a year? Wow….we paid to much for him and to him imo Hope I am wrong.

  166. chuck_easton says:

    Don’t get me wrong, I think Percy is a great player.

    But if he’s getting 12+ million a year I expect to see Largent and Jerry Rice’s secret love child lining up at WR.

    Anything less and Seattle has made a mistake that will cost them the ability to afford to keep other key players.

  167. How did we get “younger” by trading for Harvin? Wouldn’t the 1st rounder have been younger?

    Is it me or would anyone here rather have had Mike Wallace at $15 million per season than giving Harvin $12 million and forking over three draft picks (one being a 1st rounder)?

  168. We got younger by adding Harvin and subtracting Washington and Obomanu.

  169. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    bobby would rather have harvin than wallace any day. while i think 12 million is too much if they put behavioral clauses i am a little better with it. would feel better if it was more like 10 million 8-9 would be better.

  170. piperfeltcher says:

    More intrested to see how much guaranteed money he is getting.

  171. I’d rather have Harvin. Wallace is a one dimensional guy. A burner. Harvin is not only a more dynamic athlete, but he is also far more versatile. That talent on our team is…good. Harvin is elite; maybe not on the level of Fitz or CJ, but he’s young and far closer to those names than Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings, imo.

    I’m terribly excited about the addition, but I’m also curious and eager to see how they will adress the pass rush. Could we still add a Freeney?

  172. Love the idea of Harvin on our team

    NOT at 12 million a season!!! no WR is worth 12 Million in this offense IMO. (okay I would pay megatron 12 mill in this offense)

    This could kill our ability to resign our young guys!!!

  173. freehawk says:

    Horrible, practically makes me nauseous. He’s not worth this, is known to be a head-case and it will piss off other younger players. A “Jim McIlvaine” move all the way, mark my words. What about the d-line, how will he help us there? And I was hoping for Swope in the draft.

  174. Just the fact that so many on this site do not like this trade makes me think it will work out just great. If the Wilson pick is an indication of how much better a judge of talent poster are than Pete Carroll, then I feel just fine.Not to many liked the Lynch trade if I remember.

  175. 12 Mil? Geeze…we just got fleeced (not including the draft position we gave up). I don’t like this whole thing. But who am I? Just a dumb fan and my opinion means nothing. I hope it works out for us and I’ll be rooting for him from day 1…but $12M/yr?

  176. CDN_C_Hawk says:

    Hes a kick/punt returner, making 12mil a year……a career 11 yds/p.r
    Washington has had better numbers as p\ko ret. I am so livid at this move.
    Reason we weren’t in the NFCC game wasn’t because of offense…..DE..DT were the first priorities. I have a MIGRAINE, committing 3 draft picks, for a WR that in 4 yr avgs 5 TDs per year, is under 85% in starts , and weighs less than 90% of the CB’s in the league.

    This is a step back, IMHO

  177. CDN_C_Hawk says:

    @cerjam THe Wilson pick was just that, a draft pick…where $400k was all we committed..and already had Flynn in place. This move means….most likely, Washington gets released, or Baldwin. The 12k covers BOTH of them, and IMO…are more dependable to suit up game after game and put up the same or better numbers.

  178. What would you rather have?

    Harvin at $12 million per year and lose your 1st round pick?

    Mike Wallace at $15 million per year and you keep your 1st round pick?

    I don’t care who you’d rather have on its own. I care more about the context. On its own, I’d rather have Calvin Johnson than Doug Baldwin. In proper context, I’d rather have Baldwin at $1 million per year than Megatron at $50 million per season.

  179. Lets release Baldwin and his rookie contract where he makes next to nothing?

  180. A step back? Get a grip.

    In terms of the 12mil that people are tossing around; chillax. Wait for the details before you think the foreseable future is obliterated. We have no idea what the per year total will be, nor do we know how much of that money will be gauranteed.

    Some people would rather bash the signing, without even knowing the details, than celebrate the fact that we just got a lot better on offense.

  181. Nevermind – read it out of context. lol

  182. Dukeshire says:

    He hasn’t returned *a * punt from whay I can tell, let alone 11 yards. Moreover, they haven’t agreed to terms yet. Let’s take a deep breath…

  183. On the lighter side we are going to reach the rarified air of a 200 post thread! Remember a couple of days ago when someone commented on how quiet things were regarding the Hawks rumor mill? That’s what I love about this FO. Silently stalking their pray and then the pounce! No one ever sees it coming.

  184. Saw that, Bobby. Guess another era comes to an end.

  185. BK: The reason I am into paying a high dollar contract AND giving up picks, is because Harvin is significantly better than Wallace, but it’s also reflective of how close I think this team is to being a legit contender.

    But again, we don’t know the final numbers, and people are flipping their wigs–which I get. But I’m more of the glass-half-full line of thinking.

  186. No kidding Duke, all the nay-sayers take a breath- just because PFT says the terms are 12 mil a year doesn’t make it true. The next time they are right about anything seahawks will be the first time. If he wants or demands 12 mil a year he will be back in Minnesota, take it to the bank.

  187. What’s up with all the “glass-half” this or that. The KEG is full of lime green kool aid & I’m drinkin’.

    At any other point in Seahawks history I would have puked at this deal. Why do I feel good about it? Cause we’re gonna win the big one. A Superbowl victory next year is worth some cap massaging/tough choices down the road.

  188. PFT says Harvin’s contract is done and will be in line with Vincent Jackson and Dwayne Bowe.

    They were in the 5 year, $55m range. Not too bad.

  189. I’m not flipping my wig, I just don’t like it. I’d rather have a premier defensive lineman or 2 to shore up the glaring problems we have there. How many games did the D lose last year?

    Were we really that weak in the receiver corps that a good draft pick couldn’t help to enhance or at least keep us at status quo? Like I said, my opinion means nothing to the dynamic duo and I’m a believer in there process…doesn’t mean I have to like it but I believe in them and that they know what they are doing. That’s all I can do as a fan.

  190. If Percy gets out of line in the locker room, who do you think will be the one that steps up and shuts him up? My money is on Marshawn.

  191. vichawkfan says:

    Dwayne Bowe and Vincent Jackson 11-12 mill per season. Harvin is all that and then some. Why do fans cry foul over a player getting paid the going rate for the top tier talent at the position….happens year after year after year. It’s Paul Allens money folks, and last time I checked JS and PC were smarter than all of us on the way to run a franchise. Put Megatron vs Harvins stats together last year before Harvin got hurt….plus Harvin running for about 250 yrds to boot.

  192. vichawkfan says:

    oh, and Fitz is getting paid 16 mill and they don’t even have a QB that can get him the ball !!

  193. Sarcasticus says:

    Lots of teams and fans around the league breathing a sigh of relief that the Seahawks chose Harvin over a first and seventh round pick this year.

  194. bbnate420 says:

    I’m so glad that PC/JS run this team and not some of the Debbie Downers on this blog. Get ready to look a fool again. You’d think we’d have had our fill of doubting JS/PC by now.

    Enjoy your retirement, you 320 pound, overflowing douche nozzle.

    Chuck, I have seen multiple places that the deal is contingent on a physical AND them agreeing to a new deal. It would be a bad trade without a new deal in place.

    BobbyK, I’d rather pay Harvin 12 mil and give up the #25 this year than to pay Wallace 15 mil. Wallace is overrated IMO, not that he’s not a good receiver and top notch deep threat. Harvin can affect the game in so many different ways. Wallace does not.

    I can understand people being hesitant about his past problems with the Vikings, but if you think he’s just a WR then you haven’t watched him play or don’t know your ass from a hole in the wall. He can affect the game from the slot, outside the numbers, from the backfield, and in the kicking game. Yes, he’s not going to line up out wide 90+ % of the time, but he can do so. He can take it to the house on any play. Yes, he doesn’t have a giant YPC average for his career. If you’ve actually watched him play at all, you’d know that he had crap throwing to him except his rookie year. They’d just throw the ball to him behind or a little beyond the LOS and let him make yards, because they didn’t have a QB that could actually find him down field.

  195. bbnate420 says:

    I hope the next move is to trade back up into the 1st round to draft Tavon Austin. That’d really have some heads spinning here! ;-)

  196. toastmaster says:

    I have faith in the FO being able to manage any “attitude” issues . . .I think they know who and when they can effect change on/for a player. But I am a certifiable kool-aid drinker. GO HAWKS!!!CHEERS!!!!

  197. bbnate420 says:

    I still think they address DE/DT in FA. They almost certainly will in the draft as well. They still have 8 picks even before possibly trading Flynn and/or Leon. They’ve had this trade in the works for awhile I would presume and they’re still bringing in FA DEs to look at. I don’t think you see a Bennett or Avril signed now.

    How long until a PHIB pops up? :-0

  198. sluggo42 says:

    He is 24, and one of the best. We scored, mark my words…

  199. bbnate420 says:

    I’d give Harvin 11-12 mil before I’d give it to Bowe any day of the week.

    I don’t get how anyone can think they gave up too much in draft picks? If you think he’s just not worth the money and they shouldn’t have traded for him, well then that’s a different story. The chances of the Hawks getting a player of his caliber at 25 were slim at best. Where do you think Harvin would be drafted if he was in this years draft, at this point in his career, even if it meant paying him 12 mil a year? I’d bet everything I have that it would be before # 25.

  200. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I wasn’t a big fan of his attitude last year, however he didn’t have a QB like Wilson, or a team like the Seahawks to play on.

    It is great though to finally have a true #1 WR for Wilson and further fortify what is now the strength of this team. More weapons for Wilson is a good thing.

    Now I hope the FO can find or develope a set of guards that can at least be average at pass protecting for Wilson.

    And it would be nice to pick up a pass rusher, ( in free agency ) that can get more than eight sacks a year and be more than one dimensional.

    BTW- Harvin is younger than Irvin. Not a bad catch for a 25th pick.

  201. bbnate420 says:

    TomlPDX, there’s little chance that they could get 2 premier D-lineman with 11-12 mil and the 25th pick. There’s little chance that they get a premier D-lineman with the 25th pick, at least not premier for a few years down the road. There’s only 2 D-lineman that are FAs that could be argued are premier IMO, Bennett and Avril. Avril will probably eat up all of that 11-12 mil, and Bennett would probably eat up most of it. Neither of them is on the level of a Peppers or Mario Williams IMO.

    As for us losing Sherman, etc. in the future now that they’ve apparently signed Harvin, I HIGHLY doubt PC/JS make this move if it meant losing players like Sherm. They can make room other ways before they’d lose Sherm. Red could be cut after 2013. Flynn will be gone. Mebane and/or Rice. Besides possibly Leon, the only other player I see being gone almost assuredly because of the Harvin signing is either Baldwin or Tate. And neither or them will be gone before the end of 2013. Next year will determine how much Tate will get as an UFA and Baldwin as a RFA. They both still have question marks.

  202. Dukeshire says:

    Seattle already had a “true #1″ in Sid Rice. That’s how much deeper this WR group just became.

  203. The more hours go by, and the more I read (comments by AP, comments by Kluwe), I’m good with this one. I think he’s going to be a difference-maker on a team that is already very close — AND, I think he’s going to be a total blast for us all to watch on the field.

    the guy is still so young, and was killing it just last year (until he got hurt), w/a way below average QB throwing him the ball.

    I’ve got little doubt that PC/JS know that we still need to address the D-line, and will figure out some ways to do so before the season starts.

  204. bbnate420 says:

    I didn’t mention Obo, because I think he was going to be gone regardless.

  205. I apologize, nate, I thought Harvin was a tight end. I thought for sure he played for Jacksonville last year. :)

    I also thought we were going to try to stay away from not knowing “your ass from a hole in the wall” type of attacks that had become too prevelant on this blog?

    I already wrote about how Mr. Happy is among the best at taking players with special skills (i.e. Harvin) and putting them in position to be successful so I already agreed with what you already wrote about in attacking me… which makes no sense.

    Georgia – hope you enjoyed your vacation.

  206. Rice is a stud. I love him.

    Harvin is a stud in the slot (and wherever he lines-up). I love his talent.

    Rice and Harvin must be accounted for.

    With that being said, Golden Tate is going to blow it up next year with constant single coverage. Wow.

    You can say we’re a running team, but when we’re gaining about a billion more first downs next year than most other teams, there’s going to be MUCH more passing yards to go around, too.

    This team is going to score a bunch of points and win a lot of games!

  207. Next: John Abraham or Dwight Freeney (or Osi or Elvis).

  208. Dukeshire says:

    Tate came a hell of a long ways last season, but respectfully, he faced single coverage damn near exclusively. Rice was the one who saw doubles (once Wilson became competent throwing downfield). That trio however will present matchups from hell for DCs.

    And yes, Lynch ought to have his career extended now by not havin to tote the rock 300 times a season.

  209. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Thanks BobbyK, and yes it was enjoyable. Silver springs and Caladesi state parks are two of the best places to go in Florida if you like nature imo.

  210. Do you think they are going to run as many offensive plays next year as they ran this year? If they run more, that means there will be more chances for Tate. That’s where I’m coming from. Wilson won’t have the training wheels on either from the get-go. I expect a pretty explosive offense with the available talent we have. I don’t expect Tate to put up Rice numbers next year, but I expect his numbers to improve quite a bit with respect to receptions and yards.

  211. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I see us now becoming a top five offense to go with our top five defense. And staying young too.

    And I see this team being in attack mode on both sides of the ball.

    Fun times ahead.

  212. bbnate420 says:

    Here is a complete list of the D-lineman drafted at numbers 25-32 in the first round from 2004-2010. I stopped in 2010 so that the players drafted had at least 3 years in the league to develop:

    DT Dan Williams, DT Jared Odrick, DE Jerry Hughes, DT Evander Hood, DE Lawrence Jackson, DT Kentwan Balmer, DT John McCargo, DE Mathais Kiwanuka, DT Luis Castillo, DT Mike Patterson, and DE Jason Babin. Anyone detecting a pattern here?

    You could argue that Castillo was premier for a time. He only really played 6 seasons though. Babin was premier for 2 years, which were his 7th and 8th years in the NFL.

  213. I know most people think I’m crazy, but I really like what I think our guards are going to do next year and really solidify our line (minus Breno in pass pro, but he’s a stud in the run game). Add that to the addition of Percy and a matured Wilson and I also expect a top 5 type of offense. Top 10 for sure.

    Time to get some pass rushers!

  214. GeorgiaHawk says:

    BobbyK – It just wouldn’t be complete without you doing a song parody about Hutch.

    Then you can let go.

  215. Give me some time to think…

  216. bbnate420 says:

    BobbyK, the second paragraph after I mentioned your name wasn’t meant for you or anyone else in particular. Only the paragraph with your name in it was meant for you exclusively. I was answering your question. Sorry if you felt insulted. It wasn’t my intent. The comments in that paragraph were in response to comments that a WR isn’t worth 12 mil a year. I would argue he’s a lot more than just a WR. The ass from a hole in the wall comment wasn’t meant to be taken completely literally. I was just making use of colorful, descriptive language.

    P.S. Does rant sports pay you by the post?

  217. We have some holes to fill on defense if we want to stay in the top 5 defenses next year!!

    Pass rush and at LB ( although I don’t worry about the LB position too much. I think it can be addressed in the draft and possibly with who we already have on contract.

    Speaking of that are PS considered signed for next season or do they need to re-sign with the team. I believe Korey Toomer spent the whole season on Ps and could possibly be a guy who steps up

  218. bbnate420 says:

    BobbyK, I don’t think you even said anything about a WR not being worth 12 mil. If I remember correctly, a few people posted something along those lines.

  219. Not by the post (hits).

    Oh, okay.

    Harvin is a stud. He’s a great player. I’m just worried about him being crazy.

    I can’t think of a better open field runner in the entire league. He’ll get a few carries per game and even when he is a decoy in the run of pass game – he’ll make an impact that you can’t measure in stats. And when he gets all this short pass attention, they can go to the other side with Tate and he’ll explode, too.

    It’s going to be a fun year to watch a lot of points get scored, that’s for sure!

  220. DanielleMND says:

    I’m taking a wait and see attitude, but, damn, some of y’all are acting like this is the worst trade ever. I think Samwise and the Leprechaun have earned the benefit of the doubt.

  221. bbnate420 says:

    If old Hutch refuse to sign,
    I don’t mind, I don’t mind,
    If Numbskull drowned in the sea,
    Let it be, it ain’t me.
    Cuz we got Carp to run through,
    And I ain’t gonna copy you.

    Now if 6 turned out to be 9,
    I don’t mind, I don’t mind,
    If that bloated douche bag cut off all his hair,
    I don’t care, I don’t care.
    Dig, cuz we got our own super bowls to go to,
    And your super dreams will have balls of blue.

    Big, hairy sasquatch flashing down the street,
    Pointing their poison pill twitters at me.
    He’s hoping soon that our kind will drop and die,
    But we’re going to wave our 12th man flag high, high.
    Wave on, wave on,
    Fall opponents, just don’t fall on me,
    Go ahead on Mr. Sasquatch man, you can’t dress like me.

  222. Why can’t that dang Boldin stay out of our division? Sheesh, I thought we were rid of him.

    Now if Irvin learns a second move and Scruggs steps up like I think he will, this will be a fun year.

  223. The best part of this trade is that we don’t have to look at mock drafts anymore! What a relief.

    S.F. made a nice counter by picking up Boldin. They’re damn good but I don’t see their amazing streak of health making it through a 3rd complete season + playoffs.

    What an intriguing offense we are going to run in Darrell Bevell’s last season as a Seahawk coach.

    BobbyK you are crazy but not because of your faith in our guards improving this season. We absolutely need them too. Roster spots are at a premium boyz, get your gimpy sheet together and win those jobs.

  224. Well I think we can ALL agree on thing for sure; Percy ain’t getting my number!!!

  225. roadwork says:

    Great athlete. SERIOUS head case. He will wow you with what he does on the field but the real personality problems will surface at some time. A leopard never changes his spots and this guy just cannot deal with authority.

  226. montanamike2 says:

    Welcome back GeorgiaHawk. I’m stoked but also a little aprehensive about the chemistry aspect with Tate, Baldwin and Washington, maybe Wilson can ease the transition. I have no doubt that our FO has much more lined up as far as trades. I think another malcontent will go through a Seahawks attitude adjustment and be fine here. We have a potent offense and i still hope the new under the radar TE basketball player works out. Now it’s all defense!
    SF is trying to keep up with us now and an aging Justin Smith could spell disaster for them if he starts getting injured. I wonder how many rookie sacks Irvin would have if he had a Justin Smith?

  227. chuck_easton says:

    After a night of reflection (i.e. sleep), I’m not as down on the trade.

    Harvin is a good young player. The price tag to franchise a WR is $10.5 million. Harvin is definitely the type of player a team would franchise. So a salary in the 12 million range isn’t so far out of line. It’s the going rate.

    If the contract is structured in a way (and I have every faith in JS/PC that it will be) that the 12 Mill is a numbers game to make Harvin happy while keeping the actual cap hit down it won’t be so bad.

  228. I’m looking forward to see how the contract will be laid out. Knowing JS, I’m sure he will do it right. Still want a defensive lineman that can help us from the start. It is fun to watch how this front office does things.

  229. bbnate–Awesome song parody! I would have used Beast instead of Carp there though. But whatever, its great!

    The Ice Fisherman has retired! Bwahahahaha! Gimp along in retiree hell you bloated narcissistic buttsandwich!

    AFter further reflection, I believe the signing of Harvin was a sign that the front office is comfortable with Rice at FL and Tate at SE. The media can say they will bench Tate in two-wide sets all they want, but I think they alternate them. Tate will not be riding the pine, and I think (hope) his catches and TD’s will go up. He’s just too good as using the sideline and leaping to make those on-on-one battling catches to put him in the slot all the time, or to bench him. And Harvin does his best work from the slot.

    I think we’ll see a lot more 4-wide sets, and 3 WR sets with TE’s. Also we’ll see a LOT more vertical routes from the slot with Harvin and Tate both getting time there. Kind of like what you saw from time to time with Bates. Now Seattle can move Tate and Harvin around with motion and shifts, teams wont know on any given play which guy will be in the slot; Seattle can adjust based on matchups, and pretty much choose which WR to go up against the other teams slot guy. They can start dictating to defenses, rather than adjusting to them.

    There is no reason we wont see 4,000 yards passing (or close to it) and 35 TD’s passing. And Lynch hopefully wont get ridden quite so hard next year. You can pass to set up the run sometimes! Duh!

  230. I still dont like the idea of paying a tiny guy who gets injured like Harvin 10+ million a year, especially when we’re already paying Rice over 7 and Tate is earning himself a nice raise with his improving play. I dont like the idea of losing Tate to keep a Harvin. Blech! Harvin is a big risk from an injury standpoint–making him the focal point of an offense hasnt worked out too well for Minny or Harvin. Except dude is getting paid….

    I also dont like giving up three picks (though the seventh doesnt matter to Seattle at all) and the money for a tiny guy, when we could have went out and signed Victor Cruz, or even Wallace, for less picks and about the same amount of money, give or take.

    I guess Seattle is no longer interested in big fast WR’s like Jackson or Bowe or whatever…too bad; I loved seeing what Wilson could do with big fast guys in the Pro Bowl. They OWNED the red zone!

    But Harvin is a freak football player and will take this offense to new heights…if we can figure out how to field two NFL-quality G’s…thats a BIG if…

  231. bbnate420 says:

    Thanks, STTBM. I thought about using Beast, but Carp will be manning Sasquatch’s old spot in 2013, hopefully.

  232. I’d love to add some kinda historical analysis to the P.Harvin acquisition, but don’t think I can really add anything to the conversation here. You guys have pretty well beaten this news to bits already. I’m still trying to calm down my over-excitement, heading off potential disappointment for upcoming ’13 season. Gotta get some realistic expectations here. Lotsa variables in WRs changing teams…

    In ’09 SEA’s WRs production (stats per PFF) ranked: D.Branch 180th, D.Butler 150th, TJ Housh 141st, N.Burelson 64th, and B.Obo 46th. Meanwhile for MIN, S.Rice ranked 2nd and P.Harvin 14th among WRs in the NFL.

    In ’10 SEA’s WRs ranked: R.Martin 49th, G.Tate 75th, B.Stokely 20th, M.Williams 15th, D.Butler 163rd, and B.Obo 26th. S.Rice ranked 67th and P.Harvin 4th for MIN. Branch went to NE and ranked 5th, Burelson went to DET ranked 99th, and TJ went to BAL and ranked 126th.

    In ’11 SEA’s WRs ranked: G.Tate 37th, S.Rice 153rd, M.Williams 171st, D.Butler 52nd, B.Obo 188th, D.Baldwin 17th, R.Lockette 47th, and K.Durham 103rd. P.Harvin ranked 11th for MIN. Stokely went to NYG and ranked 96th, R.Martin to BUF and ranked 133rd.

    In ’12 SEA’s WRs ranked: G.Tate 24th, S.Rice 13th, B.Obo 120th, D.Baldwin 35th, C.Martin 124th, B.Edwards 142nd, and J.Kearse 162nd. P.Harvin ranked 10th for MIN. K.Durham went to DET and ranked 100th, and M.Williams dropped outta sight.

    SEA’s QBs: ’09 M.Hass 27th, ’10 M.Hass 25th, ’11 TJax 20th, ’12 RW 5th.

    MIN’s QBs: ’09 B.Favre 2nd, ’10 B.Favre 34th, ’11 D.McNabb 15th/C.Ponder 31st, ’12 C.Ponder 34th.

    When MIN had Rice and Harvin together in ’09, they had Favre throwing at his best and MIN’s passing game ranked 2nd (run game 22nd). Then in ’10 with both Favre and Rice playing injured, Harvin stepped up, but MIN’s passing game still dropped to 30th (run game 1st). Harvin continued his performance with MIN over the next 2 seasons despite drawing more coverage since Rice had left and mediocre QB performance. MIN’s run game ranked 4th in ’11 and 2nd in ’12.

    Thing that strikes me is that SEA has never had a receiving corps with as much talent on it as their ’13 WRs. Not that I recall. Last season SEA’s passing game ranked 6th (run game 1st), our best in some time – if not ever. The only seasons SEA had QB play like last season was W.Moons 1st season with SEA (8th), and M.Hasselbeck’s ’02 season (6th), ’03 & ’05 seasons (4th), and his ’07 season (9th). Football Outsiders ranked SEA’s weighted offense (where earlier games become less important) for ’12 as 1st.

    Better post this as it’s already too long – sorry about that. Still much too excited over the upcoming season…

  233. raymaines says:

    A quick word about PH being injury prone: NOPE!

    He played 15, 14, and 16 games in his first three seasons and then got a high ankle sprain and wound up in the coaches doghouse, then on IR in season four. He seems to have his migraine situation figured out so I look forward to him playing as often as any other slot guy in the league.

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