Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Alex Smith headed to KC

Post by Eric Williams on Feb. 27, 2013 at 9:31 am with 86 Comments »
February 27, 2013 9:31 am
San Francisco 49ers quarterback Alex Smith (11) scrambles as he is chased by Seattle Seahawks defensive ends Jason Jones (90) and Chris Clemons (91) during an NFL football game in San Francisco, Thursday, Oct. 18, 2012. The 49ers won 13-6. (AP Photo/The Sacramento Bee, Paul Kitagaki Jr.)
San Francisco 49ers quarterback Alex Smith (11) scrambles as he is chased by Seattle Seahawks defensive ends Jason Jones (90) and Chris Clemons (91) during an NFL football game in San Francisco, Thursday, Oct. 18, 2012. The 49ers won 13-6. (AP Photo/The Sacramento Bee, Paul Kitagaki Jr.)

Jay Glazer of Fox Sports confirmed what had been rumored at the NFL Scouting Combine last week – quarterback Alex Smith is headed to Kansas City.

Glazer reports that the San Francisco 49ers completed a deal that would send Smith to the Kansas City Chiefs in a trade. That trade cannot be completed until the new league year begins on March 12.

Tim Kawakami of the San Jose Mercury News reports the framework of the deal is San Francisco will get a Second round pick this year and a similar pick in the 2014 draft.

However, Jason La Canfora of CBS Sports, who first reported the potential trade last week, writes that the expectation was for a third-or-fourth-round pick.

Whatever that compensation, I think the trade is good news for the Seattle Seahawks, as they continue to listen to offers for a potential trade for backup quarterback Matt Flynn. The asking price for Flynn could be higher than initially anticipated.

Tony Pauline of USA Today has Seattle selecting Georgia linebacker Alec Ogletree at No. 25 in his latest mock draft.

Dan Hanzus of NFL.com takes a closer look at the Seattle Seahawks’ needs this offseason. Offensive tackle again crops up as a need here for Seattle.

Danny Tuccitto of FootballOutsiders.com writes that defensive tackle is Seattle’s biggest offseason need in this look at the NFC West.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com takes a look at John Schneider’s Day 3 picks in Seattle that have turned into first-round talents – Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor and K.J. Wright.

Bucky Brooks of the NFL Network writes that Desmond Trufant was one of several defensive backs who made some money on the final day of on-field workouts at the combine.

Kent Somers of the Arizona Republic talks about the possibility of the Cardinals exploring a trade for San Francisco quarterback Alex Smith.

Vic Tafur of the San Francisco Chronicle follows up on an ESPN report that the Oakland Raiders are interested in bringing in Mike Holmgren for a leadership role in their organization. Holmgren is familiar with Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie from his time in Green Bay. Holmgren, a San Francisco native, could possibly be used to help build support for a new stadium in Oakland.

Bruce Feldman of CBS Sports writes that Arizona quarterback Matt Scott is a sleeper prospect to watch for in this year’s draft.

Chris Sprow of ESPN takes an interesting look at why he does not believe the trend of running quarterbacks is here to stay. You must be an ESPN insider to view this.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 86
  1. I”m just not crazy about the Whiners getting two high picks from a crap team, so here’s to hoping that their ghetto QB craps out next year.

  2. It’s about time Andy Reid got the short end of the stick on a trade of a QB that was the product of a QB friendly system. Unfortunately, its a Seahawks Divisional Rival that benefits here.

    The Chiefs have some decent talent so I think Smith will do ok with them – QB rating in the 80s, 8-8ish record. But they could have matched that with Matt Moore and some of the other FAs out there. I also don’t think the trade market for Smith was that strong.

    Time for Carroll and Schneider to pull off a similar hijacking with Flynn and get a 4th rounder from the Jets or Jaguars. Anything less and I will be disappointed.

  3. “Time for Carroll and Schneider to pull off a similar hijacking with Flynn and get a 4th rounder”

    I don’t get why so many people undervalue Matt Flynn. A 4th rounder would be a hijacking alright, but we’d be the ones getting hijacked.

    Even a 2nd rounder is a small price to pay for a good prospect who carries with him more experience and less risk than a rookie.

  4. Southendzone says:

    Total desperation by Reid and the Chiefs to rebuild their image and bring the fans back from the pit of hell.

    Way overpayment for him. If the chiefs were a mid-round pick it would be a marginal overpayment but this is the 1st pick in the 2nd round.

  5. raymaines says:

    I hope the Seahawks get a second round pick for MF if for no other reason than John Clayton, the ultimate Mr. know-it-all, would be proven wrong.

    I wonder if San Francisco is at all worried about who might be their backup QB. I’m starting to think nobody values that position as much as I do.

  6. It’s because any Super Bowl Contender will be done once their QB goes down. And it’s impossible to carry a guy like Alex Smith for $8.5m, especially with a veteran team like the 49ers.

  7. “Ghetto” really audible?

  8. Yep…with a capital G. Listen to him speak.

  9. tylerwyler says:

    Considering the racist undertones that the g-word carries, can’t we just call Kaepernick something else? There’s so much to dislike about him and so many more clever ways of saying it, audible. Like, idunno, he gave his bicep herpes, or the tip of his chin is like a miniature fountain of pubescence.

  10. beavercleaver says:

    Wow, Chiefs are idiots. Smith was considered a bust and on the verge of getting cut almost every year of his career! Even last year, they were trying to get Manning and let him go to free agency… nobody wanted him! They only resigned him after the Manning chase fell thruogh.
    In SF he was was able to game manage on an excellent team. In KC with new OC and a bad line he’ll be no better than Cassel. And SF was going to out right cut him. They were not going to pay the $8 million march payment. And you trade (2) 2nd (almost 1st!) round picks!
    I repeat, the Chiefs are idiots.

  11. San Fran didnt get an extra second round pick, they swapped second round picks with KC, and reportedly will get a third or fourth round pick next year (conditional). So its a decent deal for both sides–though of course the Whiners got the best of the deal for certain.

    KC basically paid about the same as Seattle did for Charlie Whitehurst. Argh!

    Considering the talent on our team, and the fact that anyone after the third round will have a hard time making the roster, I dont see the value in trading Flynn for less than a third round pick. Better to keep him around another year as insurance.

    I still think Seattle trades Flynn for a player or players–like an aging DE/DT or a nickel back or a big WR. They may be able to get more value that way as opposed to draft pick(s).

  12. trout_hound says:

    I didn’t watch the Raiders much this year, so I’m wondering about the Hawks renting Richard Seymore for a year or two? Maybe Eric has some insight as he’s a Raiders fan. Seymore was a beast with NE, and still was disruptive the few times I’ve watched him with the Raiders. Actually, he had a surprising amount of fire considering how badly the Raiders sucked most of the time. Since he’s on the downswing at 33, he won’t be that expensive, and might be a nice fill in for Red or situational guy as he can play anywhere on the line.

  13. tylerwyler says:

    Also, it’s hard for me to believe the Chiefs are really gonna give a high two for Smith. It should do wonders for Flynn’s value. If we got offered a two, it may be worth it. I know it’s not gonna’ be easy to find a good replacement for MF and at that salary, but there’s likely to be a lot of talent available in the second round at key positions for the Hawks. We could get a quality DE, WR/TE, and nickel back before the third round even starts. I’m with you, Ray, on valuing Flynn, but a two could really do wonders this year.

  14. JazBadAzz says:

    that ghetto commit is bogus!
    Matt Flynn should definitely get at least 1 2nd round pick!

  15. yankinta says:

    This sets the market for Matt Flynn. I am not expecting a 2nd rounder or better for him. Most likely will come from Oakland or AZ. I would prefer their next year’s 1st round pick than this year’s 2nd round pick.

    Too bad for KC, they’ll still be the bottom of the NFL the next 4-5 years because of this trade.

    The full details of this trade is not complete yet. I think 49ers will have to give some picks back to KC this year…

  16. yankinta says:

    raymaines, John Clayton is only good at know Salary Cap Numbers and Salaries…..

    He doesn’t know much about Talent Evaluation and Trade Values…..

  17. How did the 49ers swing what is basically a 1st round pick and more for Alex Smith? This is almost as good as the Seahawks trading Rick Mirer for a 1st round pick to the Bears. Smith can play QB and Mirer couldn’t, so the Seahawks still had the better trade among the 2.

  18. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I would be happy with an early third round pick for Flynn.

    And wouldn’t it be cool to find a backup QB and another LB with the 5th and 7th picks that we got for Curry and Jackson.

    tylerwyler? Beavercleaver? Mabey it’s time to change my name to something more fun. Lol.

  19. I was a big Kaep fan when he was drafted and thought Seattle should have drafted him. Carp has yet to prove that wrong, imho. At the time I was all about the OL so it was hard to object to the choice of Carp and Moff..

    I wonder if Kaep or RW would have been the choice had they come out together.

  20. Carlsonkid says:

    First I’ve seen anyone mock a linebacker in the 1st round for us , interesting . I’ve heard the defensive line crop is deep in this draft ; if Schneider and Carroll can grab a decent DT and pass rusher in the later rounds , or get one in FA , that might make some sense …

  21. beavercleaver says:

    STTBM where are you getting the info that they swapped 2nd round picks? Every report I have seen says it was a straight trade and SF has added a pick and now has 11 picks.

  22. yankinta says:

    beavercleaver, all reports that I read says the full details of the trade is not available yet. I suspect that this is true cuz giving up High 2nd RD pick for him plus another conditional round pick next year would be wayyy too high of a price for Alex Smith.

    What STTBM said makes more sense.

  23. two 2nd round picks is a ton for Smith. I’m pretty surprised – and bummed at that talent bump to our biggest rivals. And no, Flynn is not going to command the same level of compensation as a guy who has started as many games as Smith has, and who was playing so well when he went down last season.

  24. Even worse for the Seahawks –

    “The second pick is a conditional third round pick, that could become a second round pick based on the number of wins the Chiefs get in 2013.”

    Ridiculous.

  25. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Pabs, our FO has already proven that they can draft better than the 49ers.
    No need to panic.

  26. JS and PC will work out a deal to send Flynn to Jacksonville. Gus knows Flynn and will pay more for him. We won’t trade him to AZ since they are in our division. I could see maybe Oakland, since their GM used to work for the Packers. I still think it will be Jacksonville and it will be sooner than later.

  27. Even worse for Reid, is that Alex Smith is not the right QB for Reid’s offense.

    Smith had his success under Harbaugh with a run first, one read off playaction offense. Harbaugh made it simple and safe for Smith. Vernon Davis was often Smith’s primary target and often beat his one on one matchup.

    Reid in Philly ran a pass first offense where the pass setup the run and the QB was charged with making the right read vs relying on a specific target to win their matchup consistently.

  28. I’d be happy to get a 5th for Flynn. Flynn is probably going to ask to be traded I assume and I definately would rather keep him than get a 5th, but I would take a 5th over Keeping a disgruntled player. Anything better than a 5th would be a steal and the Hawks I suspect would jump on it.

  29. I’d keep Flynn unless we get a 3rd round pick or higher; unless as TruBlu says above Flynn becomes so disgruntled as to become a locker room problem. Otherwise, as many here have pointed out, a quality back-up QB is a highly valuable commodity for a good team to have.

    BTW, who backs up Kaep now?

  30. Not sure where I heard it was a swap of second round picks plus a conditional 3/4 next year. Perhaps PFT? But I read it…full details are not out yet, which is why there are conflicting reports out there.

  31. Right now it’s Tolzein who RW knows somewhat out of Wisc.

  32. rramstad says:

    A couple of things…

    First, it sounds like this could help the Seahawks in terms of compensation for Flynn. If the rumors are true — regardless if it’s a swap of a 2nd round pick, or a straight up 2nd round pick — that’s still high enough compensation that it would be worth moving Flynn.

    Second, if you are the Cardinals or the Jaguars, there’s one less option out there now, and I think many people on the board think Flynn is less proven but has more upside than Smith. We all know what Smith can and cannot do… Flynn could be a top ten quarterback in the league, and I don’t think Smith will ever get there…

  33. raymaines says:

    If Gus Bradley in Jacksonville doesn’t show interest in MF it would be the second head coach who knows him and didn’t want him. Bummer for his trade value. In PC I trust.

  34. Dukeshire says:

    The Niners “swung it” simply because KC is desperate and feel they are reasonably close to contending.

  35. yankinta says:

    John Clayton is LAZY. He said Russell Wilson is Un-Athletic version of Seneca Wallace after the draft last year. I was LOL. Just I knew he was the real deal from Day 1.

  36. GeorgiaHawk says:

    rramstad- Smith has top ten stats. I don’t know if Flynn has more upside but apparently the Chiefs don’t think so.

  37. John Clayton seems to really be slipping. He seems to consistantly wrong when it comes to the team in his own back yard.

  38. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Hall of fame. Great place to visit if your in Ohio, along with the Rock & Roll Hall of fame.

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/193348111.html

  39. tylerwyler says:

    I like Clayton, but I’m gonna just be a smug ‘hawks fan while his Steelers go down in flames.

  40. GeorgiaHawk says:

    After reading the
    Clare Farnsworth article at Seahawks.com and his look at John Schneider’s Day 3 picks in Seattle that have turned into first-round talents – Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor and K.J. Wright, I am curious just how our scouts routine is.

    Eric could you perhaps get one or two of our scouts on a live chat or article so us fans can understand a little more how they do things and mabey hear a story or two on how some of our players got drafted here.

    That would be cool if you could do that. Thanks.

  41. bbnate420 says:

    That “ghetto” comment was stupid. He was adopted and grew up in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin and Turlock, California. You know, those world famous ghettos. Poor choice of words. It does have racial overtones. I’m not saying you can’t use it, but you should realize what it communicates to many others about you. BTW, he had a 4.0 GPA in high school.

    They’re not getting a 1st for Flynn. Keep dreaming. Flynn hasn’t proven nearly as much as Smith has, no matter how much you want to run him down. Other teams don’t operate under the Hawks fans’ delusional mindset. He couldn’t get more than approx. 6 mil a year on the open market, yet you think someone will trade a 1st for him? What exactly did he do to raise his value in 2012? Hold a clipboard well? They should take a 3rd for him if they can get it.

  42. GeorgiaHawk says:

    bbnate420- 3rd is about what I’m looking for. Delusionally saying of course, or perhaps Beerationally saying.

  43. The Hawks need to pick up the phone on March 12th and call Andy Reid.

    “Mr Reid?”… “Hi Mr. Reid, this is PC and JS from the Seattle Seahawks and boy do we have a deal for you! For the small price of a 3rd and 4th round pick in the 2014 draft, we’re going to give you the best back-up QB in the leauge. You think Alex Smith is good? Ha! He’s had one season with 20+ TD passes. Hell our guy threw for a third of that amount in one game! And best of all you don’t have to break the bank for a guy that’s a proven bust.”

    Reid – “Thanks guys, that sounds like an awesome deal! Where do I sign?”

    Not only do we get a couple nice picks next year, we screw…err…umm…prevent Harblow from getting a good pick this year and next. Of course Reid’s response would probably be closer to this…

    Reid – “Umm…yeah. You guys ever heard of Kevin Kolb?…Uh huh…yeah…that’s what I thought. Thanks but no thanks. See ya ‘all at the draft. Go Hawks!”

  44. bbnate420 says:

    I think they have a decent chance of getting a 3rd, Georgia. I just really don’t see a 1st, be it in the 2013 draft or the 2023 draft. I don’t think they should move Flynn to move him, but a 3rd is valuable.

  45. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Especially if it’s a high 3rd nate. I just don’t know if anytime after this year Flynn would have as much value. Like they say, timing is everything.

  46. I like Flynn, but he is not a mobile qb. Smith is pretty fast, and does an excellent job at bottlegging. Flynn does not. Smith is much better at buying time with his feet. Also, Smith has shown he can do a fine job in the right system. Reid can modify his system to suit Smith. Of course, I think he could have done the same with Flynn…

    Too many here slag on Smith because of his early struggles, and the fact that he has been beating us like a redheaded stepchild for the last couple years (excepting this year at the Clink when he was on the bench for his teams epic beatdown). The guy is pretty good.

    I think we’ll be lucky to get a third rounder, and if we do, we should take it.

  47. GeorgiaHawk says:

    How coaches like Reid continue to stay employed in the NFL is beyond me.

    It’s so comical that it reminds me of the sad sack Jerry Glanville days in Atlanta.

    Well not quite as bad as Glanville. Glanville, (arguable one of the worst coaches in NFL history) Could hardly take a SuperBowl caliber team to/or far in the playoffs if he tried.
    He was famous though for taking SuperBowl caliber teams and running them into the ground.

    So glad we have a good coach and GM here.

  48. DanielleMND says:

    As someone on ESPN said, this is Cassel 2.0 for the Chiefs.

  49. Hammajamma says:

    I trade Flynn for a draft pick only if that pick turns into Matt Scott. I don’t see any FA’s I’d take over Flynn, including Cassel after he is released.

  50. On a different note, some more love for my man Ryan Swope (Yes, I want him on our team as a goto guy for RW that is always there and able to make the big play)

    http://seahawksdraftblog.com/the-two-players-id-hate-to-leave-this-draft-without

    And NO! I won’t stop hyping Swope!!! ;-)

  51. Repeat after me….”No Matt Scott!”

    I watched him too closely last year and was not impressed. They guy couldn’t handle pressure. What we love about RW we would see that Scott does not possess.

    And NO! I will not stop saying “No!” to Scott! :-)

  52. I definitely don’t think Flynn is worth more than Smith – but STTBM, Flynn is NOT an immobile statue sitting in the pocket.

    I don’t believe they have a set plan for Flynn- if they get the right offer they will trade him- if they don’t they will keep him

  53. xcman–No, but he is very slow. I still think he would have been annihilated by our O-line if he’d started last year.

    I agree, if they cant get enough value, they will keep him.

  54. GeorgiaHawk says:

    If the seahawks could get a 7th for Jackson they should at least get a 5th for Flynn. ( 5th for Flynn, say that ten times). Lol.

  55. Did you watch the pre-season game against Denver when he was scrambling/outrunning their supposedly fast defensive players? “Very slow” my hind end!

    There was one play that especially stood out where I was like “holy crap, he’s faster and a lot more mobile than I thought he was” and I was already a Flynn fan.

    I’m not saying he’s faster or a better scrambler than Wilson, because he’s not, but he’s certainly not the immobile being that you seem to think he is (even if you admit he’s not a “statue”). Find that game and watch Flynn on that one 15-20 yard run/scramble especially and then come back here and honestly tell me that he’s immobile and slow. Then link the play so everyone can see for themselves that “very slow” is a crock of crap. I don’t need to link it for you because I already know what I saw.

    Also, lets go back to every Green Bay draft pick since 2002 (when Schneider started there) and then our 3rd round pick in year 1-2 under this regime (Whitehurst being the first “pick” and then Moffitt). Do it. I just did. Look at all the superstars that were drafted. Would we want to chance one of those “great” 3rd round players for a guaranteed good back-up QB? Wilson was a home run 3rd rounder, but none of the others have made a Pro Bowl and most of those players outright suck. Finley is the best of the bunch, but I’d even take a good back-up QB for a team that is close to a Super Bowl than him (unless you could GUARANTEE me that Wilson will never miss a snap). Sure, we can dump Flynn and “steal” a 3rd rounder from someone, but then we conveniently forget that we still need a back-up that won’t work for free. Or a “good” back-up.

    It simply boggles my mind the mentality that we can get rid of a good back-up QB for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

    I guess the 4th rounder could turn into KJ Wright, EJ Wilson, Robert Turbin, Jaye Howard, or Kris Durham. Which one? Are we willing to chance the most important position in sports if our starter goes down for an unknown draft pick? I’m not. I like the idea of knowing we can still win it all if our starter goes down. I guess that means more to me than potentially drafting the reincarnation of EJ Wilson. Even if we “win” and draft another KJ Wright, I’d still rather have Flynn if anything were to happen to Wilson. Maybe we can roll the dice and Wilson will never get hurt, but that seems a bit wreckless to me (or more wishful thinking than being responsible).

  56. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    Bobby your man chrush on flynn is showing again,lol. i honestly don’t believe keeping or cutting flynn hurts the team or really helps unless they turn whatever they get into someone that produces more, which if flynn rides the pine the whole year isn’t hard. let’s say you get a 4th use it to draft a back up. problem solved.

  57. They could trade Flynn for a 7th round pick in 2525 and get the better end of the deal if Wilson never misses a snap. I’m just scared if Wilson gets hurt and some clown has to take over that sucks and every other Seahawks player, coach, and fan will have to wait for “next year.” I don’t want to find ourselves one injury away from having an entire season destroyed. At least with any one of our other great players, we could still win it all despite their injury, but if we’re going to back-up Wilson with a guy like Pee Wee Herman, then I don’t like that plan, even if it saves a few bucks.

    And, yes, I do have a man crush on Flynn still, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t scramble and clearly outrun some Bronco defenders to prove he’s not “very slow.”

  58. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “The Seahawks had a QB problem”
    “Relying on a couple bums”
    “The Packers had a backup named Matt Flynn”
    “he’s a football throwing’ son of a gun”
    “well Jackson’s big and dumb as a qb can come”
    “but he was stronger than a country hoss”
    “and when the blog folks all get together at night”
    “you know they all wanted Flynn the “boss”
    (just because …)
    (BobbyK says …)
    chorus:
    “you don’t tug on superman’s cape”
    “you don’t spit into the wind”
    “you don’t pull the mask of the old lone ranger”
    “and you don’t mess around with Flynn”
    “(ba-doo-da-doo-doo doo-doo-BobbyK-doo doot)
    “well out of Richmond Virginia come a country boy”
    “he said I’m lookin’ for a man named Flynn”
    “I set all kinds of records at the College level, and the starting spot I’m gonna win”
    “he said I’m lookin’ to win the Seahawks qb competition and that is just a simple fact”
    “and now that Flynn took all the money, and it may sound funny
    but I come to get my money back”

    “well a hush fell over the blog site”
    “when Wilson come boppin’ in off the street”
    “and when the competition’ was done, the only part that wasn’t bloody
    “was the soles of the Matt Flynns feet”
    “he was cut in ’bout a hundred places”
    “and he was shot in a couple more”
    “and you better believe they sung a different kind of story”
    “when Matt Flynn hit the floor”
    “(and now they say)”
    “you don’t tug on superman’s cape”
    “you don’t spit into the wind”
    “you don’t pull the mask of the old lone ranger”
    “and you don’t mess around with Wilson”

  59. GeorgiaHawk says:

    On vacation now see you in a couple weeks. Go Hawks!!!

  60. Catching up a little … did RW win rookie of the year?

  61. RDPoulsbo says:

    I don’t think KC overpaid. It’s simply that the market for starting QBs is at a premium this year. The timing of the trade should tell you everything. KC had their choice of Geno Smith #1 overall with a cheap contract because of the rookie pay scale and they passed. I guess Reid saw Geno up close and didn’t like what he saw, so he picked up the phone and made the deal. This isn’t last year’s draft where quality QBs like Cousins could be had for a 4th round pick. The reality is the top QBs in this year’s draft come with some big question marks and there are more NFL teams desperately looking for a starter than there is talent to go around via FA, draft or trade.

    I think Flynn is worth a 2nd – high 3rd + a middle conditional pick in 2014. I could see Jax, Jets, or even the Raiders making that offer to Seattle. With some decent QB projects in the 3-5th round area, I think PC will find it worth the risk to deal Flynn. He’ll be cut after next season and Seattle will get nothing in return so it’s best to deal him when his value will never be this high again.

  62. Agreed he’ll be cut after next year but for a team that will have the ability to win the Super Bowl this upcoming season, is it worth it to have gotten a pick or to have insured yourself still being able to win it all if you lose your starter? I’d love to cancel insurance payments on my house for one year with the thought that my home isn’t going to burn down. But “what if” it does and I’m not insured? That would suck. I realize that you can’t properly insure every position on the field, but the QB is the most important in all of professional sports so I think there’s another set of standards we need to realize. If RW gets through the year unharmed, I’m wrong. If he gets hurt are backing him up with Charlie Weirdbeard, the season will not end with a Lombardi.

  63. If Wilson goes down, then any chance of winning the division is gone regardless of the backup.

  64. RDPoulsbo says:

    SF just gave away their insurance policy for the same reasons I think Seattle will follow suit. Both want backup QBs with similar skill sets as their starter and at a price that aligns with their depth charts. That way, should RW go down, the entire gameplan and offensive scheme won’t go down with him. If a guy like Scott or Manuel can be had with some of those extra picks they have this year, it’ll be well worth the risk.

  65. Dukeshire says:

    “… regardless of the backup.”

    Because no back-up is capable of winning the NFC West…

  66. Bobbyk–I never saw the Broncos/Hawks preseason game, it wasnt available anywhere I was. However, I watched every single snap he took aside from that game, and he is SLOW. Check his 40 time, I’ll bet he ran a 4.98.

    He isnt Whitehurst, but he’s still not anywhere near as mobile as Alex Smith, which was my point. I know you have your ego tied up with Flynn, but damn, man, relax! I like Flynn and think he’ll be a good starter for some team, but the guy flat got caught from behind in the open field multiple times by 300+lb linemen in every other game. He looked hesitant and slow. Period. Go back and watch without your man-crush goggles and you will see. He played like a more accurate early-season T-jack; hesitant and taking no chances. Which is not necessarily his fault, its what he thought coach wanted. But there it is. The guy didnt take the team and lead us to TD’s like we all thought he would. He looked meh. (And please, dont wig out on the T-Jack reference; we all know how you feel by now.)

    Flynn isnt going to be worth a damn next year riding the pine, and we’d be better off with some decent compensation (player or pick) and a mobile backup to groom. Whether that happens or not, I have no idea. And as I have said, I would never trade Flynn for less than a third rounder. I like him.

    I think Seattle will have a great draft, as they arent as pressed for need at certain positions as in past years, and can mostly concentrate on finding the best player, regardless of position. So a third would be very valuable, after that not so much.

  67. klm–Nope, RGIII won, which I was fine with; but Wilson finished third behind Andrew Luck, which was bullsh%% and pissed me off no end. Its like the Grammies in the NFL nowadays…nothing makes any sense.

  68. Pabs, the 49ers starter Alex Smith went down with a concussion and their “backup” came in and lead the team to both a division title and a NFC championship. So… We’ve seen a backup come in and do what is not possible this season. Or is it only not possible for Seattle?

    Waiting for your rationalization…

  69. tealskin says:

    Galena, the only problem I have with your viewpoint is that Harbaugh was looking for a reason to get Kaepernick starting. He was technically a backup, but was being inserted often to get him up to speed. Clearly Jimbo was not satisfied with Smith.

  70. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, actually Flynn ran in the 4.7’s during his pre-draft workouts. His combine time was 4.79. I think his pro day time was 4.72. And 40 time doesn’t automatically equate to on the field speed. A.J. Green ran a 4.5, but he seems to get deep quite a bit. Rice ran in the 4.6’s. Jerry that is. He’s no RW, but he’s not a slug either.

    I don’t think that Smith is necessarily an elite QB, but anyone here that thinks he is incapable of being anything more than a game manager should look at his stats the last 2 seasons and watch the playoff game from 2012 against NO. He brought his team back versus NO in the final minutes for a win. Granted, NO had far from a stout defense, but game managers don’t drive the length of the field for the winning TD in the final minutes after their defense has given up the go ahead TD.

  71. Dukeshire says:

    Harbaugh being satisfied with Smith is irrelevant to pabuwal’s comment. Either he feels no backup can lead a team to a division title (which of course is wrong) or he feels no backup can lead Seattle to a division title (which is nothing more than his opinion despite it being framed as fact).

  72. bbnate420 says:

    BobbyK, I think there’s a legitimate debate about whether a 3rd or Flynn is more valuable next year, but the logic you use to defend your position boggles the mind. You act like it is a certainty that Flynn is a good backup and can come in and win games for the Hawks. I like Flynn, but he is still an unproven commodity. The only thing he proved last year was that he couldn’t beat out RW for the starting job. All he’s really proven in the league is that he could hold down the #2 behind Rodgers and play well in 2 starts versus teams that didn’t have tape on him. I don’t think there’s a FA QB out there that’s likely to be as good, but Jason Campbell has the ability to come in for a year and provide a serviceable backup option. The question should be, would you rather have Campbell and a 3rd in 2013 or Flynn?

    And pointing out that not every 3rd works out is a bad argument IMO. 1st rounders are approx. a 50/50 proposition if you look back through history. Does that mean that they shouldn’t have a high value? I guess a 3rd isn’t worth much since it’s not guaranteed that they will draft a good player? Never mind the fact that Flynn is far from a 100% certainty. Another 3rd this year has the potential to help the Hawks fill another significant need for 2013. Especially if it’s a high one. I probably would keep Flynn if they can only get a 4th.

  73. Ewalters7354 says:

    According to STTBM, every hawk player is “slow”, which is clearly his opinion.He said it about Rice, Miller, now Flynn.I bet he would love for Heyward Bey (sp) to be the hawks no.1 receiver because of speed.Which isn’t everything.

    One intriguing name to watch out for is Dustin Keller.This guy is fast and has decent hands.Not to mention he’s coming from a running team.Durability is an issue, but I think he would fit this team well.That’s only if he doesn’t resign with the Jets.

  74. bbnate420 says:

    Though I believe the Hawks chances of winning the division would be significantly reduced without RW, it is certainly not a fact that they couldn’t win the division with a backup. We all know how pabuwal feels about Flynn, so his statement shouldn’t be surprising.

  75. Ewalters–Not true and you know it. Neither of the players you mention (and you forgot KJ Wright) have enough to speed to be called “fast”. They are limited (Rice is fast enough and plays a position where if youre smart and quick you can make up for it) by their lack of speed, but that is not to say they arent good players, and I have made that crystal clear.

    Dont put words in my mouth, its rude; Heyward-Bey is the typical Al Davis mistake–Seattle had their own under Behring. Remember Doug Thomas and his second round buddy? At least his buddy was a decent Special Teamer…drafting for speed alone is insane. (def’n of insane; doing the same thing over and over, expecting different outcome. Ie, Al Davis…).

    My only concern with Rice is his propensity to get injured and the fact that he was brought in to play SE but now is a FL; and Tate is not an ideal SE though he’s fast and valuable. So that leaves us with almost 10 million a year in WR’s but no true SE. With Miller, its his high pay–he blocks a lot, and isnt going to get deep like Jimmy Graham or Gronk, though I have never wanted him cut or traded. He’s just making more money than he should, even counting his knowledge of Cable’s scheme. Both are fine players, and cornerstones of our offense, and I doubt very much they are cut or have reduced pay in the next three years, barring injury or some sort of collapse.

    bbnate–an official time averaged out to 4.78 is slow, any way you look at it. Even LB’s are often much faster, especially nowadays. There are too many here who howl and gnash their teeth like Wild Things whenever anyone says Flynn is less than Football Jesus, or God Forbid anyone point out the physical limitations of a few players. Not everyone on this team has world-class speed; thats normal.

    On paper, a third is a good deal for Flynn both ways, but that depends on what is done with the pick. Obviously, if the pick flops, it will be viewed as a failure. Like trading Darrell Jackson, who would have had another good year or two here, for a fourth rounder; seemed okay, since Jackson’s play declined rapidly, but I believe we drafted Mansfield Wrotto with the pick, and he failed miserably. So, in the end it was like cutting him.

    I would rather see Seattle get a player or two who could help–a swing G/T, or an aging but not old DT or DE who could help.

    And if Flynn stays, cool, because proof or not, I believe he is the best backup possible at this time. And I like him.

    bbnate–also, agreed with your last comment; it is certainly a legitimate debate as to Flynn’s worth. We shall see.

  76. Ewalters7354 says:

    Rice wasn’t brought in to be SE STTBM.He was brought in to play the same role he played in Minn.Where he lined up at all WR positions.You are saying these guys are good players but always seem to come with a reason on why they aren’t this or that.

    Idc if it’s rude.It’s also rude when you constantly beat and bash the hawks o-line because they aren’t elite and have flaws in their game.

    Not arguing or anything.Just don’t agree with your overall assessment of most players on this team.

  77. montanamike2 says:

    I also don’t think that we should just give away one of the best backups in the NFL. Smith took a long time to come around to a specific system and when he did start to excell Jim H. replaced him as soon as he could, partly due to Wilson lighting it up and he wanted to keep pace/stay in front of Seattle. In a much smaller sample size Flynn has proven he can get the job done, i think he’s the better deal between Smith and him value wise, he does need more playing time but he’s better than half the starters in the NFL. Wilson left the game in the 3rd and we still hung 50+ points 3 games in a row! Unless we got a great deal i wouldn’t trade him. I think patience is warrented as the draft aproaches desperate teams will come forward. I don’t want be like SF if Kaep goes down.

  78. bbnate420 says:

    STTBM, I wasn’t arguing that Flynn was fast. You said that you would bet that he ran a 4.98. I just disputed that with facts, that’s all. I wouldn’t say that 4.79 is slow for a QB either. I would guess that it’s somewhere near average these days, either a little better or worse. Of course he’s slow if you compared him to WRs and DBs, but since he’s a QB I would compare him to other QBs. And he’s not slow compared to many LBs either. Kevin Minter and Manti Te’o, the top 2 ILBs according to Rang, ran 4.81 and 4.82 respectively.

  79. CDHawkFan says:

    In a much smaller sample size Flynn has proven he can get the job done, i think he’s the better deal between Smith and him value wise, he does need more playing time but he’s better than half the starters in the NFL.
    Montana, I’m not sure how you can say this without Flynn’s value being…valued. Yes Flynn has more value than Smith if you can get Flynn for a box of chocolates, not more ‘value’ if it takes the Smith like trade in picks.
    Smith has shown much more than Flynn. While Smith hasn’t been great, Flynn was not picked up by his former coach now in Miami, he didn’t beat out RW, was picked late (yes, yes, I know about Brady), there isn’t a deal in place with KC for Flynn. Either way, Smith is worth more in this market. The fact that Reid is picking up Smith shows he is trying to reduce risk of starting all over with a rookie, it also shows that he is reducing the risk of an unknown QB like Flynn pretty much would be. The Hawks need to consider anything due to his Flynn contract. Its a nice problem to have, but lets face it, Flynn hasn’t done much and would be an expensive risk to any team/GM.

  80. As far as I can see, if RW should go down to injury, there isn’t a vet QB – nor is there a QB in the draft who plays exactly the same as RW (nor even close, really, except for maybe Cam Newton or a healthy RG3). So any backup QB would require some kinda change in SEA’s offensive scheme, in order to play to that QBs strengths. To optimize a change to MF in the event of an injury to RW, we’d have to improve the OL’s pass-pro. If you go back to the 3 preseason games MF played in (MF didn’t play vs KC) to see how well he plays, don’t just look at the QB ratings in the gamebooks and decide he’s nowhere near as good as RW. Flynn started vs TEN and at DEN and RW played the 2nd half vs backups. MF made some beautiful passes that hit the hands of the try-out receivers in stride and were dropped. In the game vs OAK RW started and MF played the 2nd half and their QB ratings were reversed. The difference btw MF & RW in ability to QB the team is not that much:
    TEN: MF 57.4 QB rating, RW 91.7
    DEN: MF 53.0 RW 128.3
    OAK: RW 67.2 MF 125.0

  81. GeorgiaRay says:

    Short of the “we signed him, so he must be good” homer’ism…..I’m not sure why everybody ‘expects’ a 2nd for the 7th round draft pick out of LSU with 2 careers NFL starts…Honestly…

  82. I really don’t expect MF to get traded. Let’s improve the OL, in case.

  83. tealskin says:

    GeorgiaRay- Don’t think the expectation is a high draft pick for MF, its more that we should keep him if a high enough pick isn’t offered. Aside from $ there is no pressing need to get rid of him. Truly he is still a relatively unknown quantity/quality. How disgruntled can a guy be becoming a multi-millionaire by sitting on his butt and staying ready? Know its not ideal situation for him but its reality check time.

  84. sluggo42 says:

    Flynn has way too much class to become a “cancer” in the locker room. He doesn’t even know the meaning of disgruntled.
    He is a fine player, worthy of a 3rd at least, hopefully packaged up to move up to get a real impact player.

    It’s funny how y’all argue so much about what he is worth, what we need, ya da, yada, yada…

    I’m guessing that his value will be determined by any offers we get for him. It’s like me selling a couch, I think it’s worth $1000, but my best offer is only $600. So, how much is it worth? What I want, or what I’m offered?

    Lets see what offers are made, and if a deal happens. Then we’ll know exactly what a Flynn is worth.

    I predict a BPA approach. Sure we need a better pas rush, but not enough to pass on a top tier player in almost every position, save RB, or ?. That’s the beauty of a good team…

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