Seahawks Insider

Monday Morning QB live chat (Friday’s version) replay

Post by Eric Williams on Oct. 19, 2012 at 10:55 am with 108 Comments »
October 19, 2012 2:03 pm

We’ll get started at 1 p.m. Lots to talk about, so stop by if you have time this afternoon.

Categories:
Chat
Leave a comment Comments → 108
  1. Eric, Do we really need Ryan calling a thread ‘pouting party’?
    Insulting the readers like that..

  2. Mocarob – I thought the same thing last night. Not very professional.

  3. seahawk44 says:

    Eric, won’t be able to come to chat. I have a couple questions?

    1. How much does fatigue play into Gore gouging the Seahawks D in the 2nd half?

    2. Will the FO make a run at Dwayne Bowe? (Tate had a miserable game, I think at least Edwards should start ahead of him)

  4. Dukeshire says:

    mocarob – Did anything happen in that thread to disprove the headline? Sadly, very little if anything, IMO.

  5. Duke – I agree alot of what is in the thread could be called ‘pouting’, but thats not the point. Not every post was a pout and its still mildly insulting. A number of people commented on it.

  6. yakimahawk says:

    Eric,
    Cannot make chat today 2 questions

    Gus Bradley is the real deal but last nights lack of quick adjustments in the 2nd half were quite a disappointment. How bad of a game did he have? And though I am a Wilson guy part of me just wants to see what Flynn can do. Is there any talk about that?

  7. guywhothinksheknowsitall says:

    I thought calling it a pouting party was very appropriate. And I don’t mean that as an insult to the people posting in the thread. We all want this team to succede and it is frustrating when they don’t.

  8. Guess that makes Dule a big pouter after his little ‘tiff’ with another commenter last night.
    ; )
    Go Hawks Duke (after a win only?)

  9. I didn’t even go in that thread. I’m sure it was a mess.

  10. Dukeshire says:

    I know its been criticized, and I get it. But again, taken as a whole, was he wrong? And moreover, the headline speaks to an establisbed post loss behavior in these threads. He was ridiculing us and we delivered.

  11. Dukeshire says:

    Jusjamn, Im not exonerating myself. Whats the matter with you?

  12. I just expect our ‘host’ to take the high road. The rest of us here, not much surprises me.

    And shouldn’t they be nice and respectful to us? I mean we’re the customer, right?

    Anyway, thats enough pouting about the pouting comment.

  13. jchawks08 says:

    Wow. Sensitive group, eh? Customers of what, exactly? Do you pay for this blog? Do you even subscribe to the TNT? Eric, Ryan, Dave and the bunch do us a service to give us an outlet to release our fandom. I’m guessing they don’t have to, and look at the abuse that goes on daily. No offense, blocis, but you’re going to need to get over it..

  14. Dukeshire says:

    blocis – It was Divish, after all. lol. We know better.

  15. wow are people seriously pouting over a title of a blog entry?? maybe the pouting party was right.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000082181/article/alex-boone-seahawks-gave-up-a-little-bit-vs-49ers

    The San Francisco 49ers earned a narrow 13-6 victory over the Seattle Seahawks on Thursday night, and they pretty much owned the second half. The lone touchdown drive of the game came in the third quarter, when the 49ers went on a 10-play, 86-yard drive capped by an Alex Smith 12-yard touchdown pass to Delanie Walker. The drive ate up 6 minutes and 20 seconds.

    The Seahawks, one of the most physical teams in the NFL, were beaten at their own game.

    “We just kind of felt them start to give up a little bit, and they knew that we were just going to kep running the ball on them,” 49ers guard Alex Boonetold the Seattle Times. “They’re a tough team, very physical team, one of the best run defenses, so we knew we had to bring it.”

    Running back Frank Gore did run for 92 yards after halftime, and the Seahawks managed just four first downs after the break. Niners coach Jim Harbaugh called the second half the most physical 30 minutes he has seen his team play.

    We didn’t exactly see the white flag being waved, but there’s little more frustrating than being beaten at your own game while your offense is completely stifled.

  16. way to go carroll, you built a team of quitters.

  17. Screensmoke says:

    I must be hallucinating? You guys are actually bickering over the title of the blog last night?unbelievable!

  18. “way to go carroll, you built a team of quitters.”

    Huh? Why, because one dude on the opposing team ran his mouth in a post-game interview? I don’t get your posts anymore.

  19. Screensmoke says:

    Radeon my long lost buddy! It just not the same around here with out ya

  20. This is kind of interesting, from Simmons’ column today:

    “What about Frank Gore slumped on San Francisco’s bench at the end of last night’s brutally physical Seahawks-Niners game, nursing bruised ribs and a battered body, having endured two slugfests in five days (the other against the Giants)? He downplayed it afterward and claimed his coach was just being careful, adding, “We’ve got a long season.” You’re being careful during a crucial division game with your star running back who just garnered 182 rushing/receiving yards in three-plus quarters? That’s a good direction for the league?

    Even if you’re giving Goodell the benefit of the doubt — and holy &$@#*%! is it hard, but let’s say it’s possible — he can’t be defended on these reckless Thursday games. Last night, the Seahawks hung around for the first half, squandered multiple chances to pull away (dropping five balls in all, including two potential monster pass plays), then wilted down the stretch like the rabbit in a 5k race. They were running on fumes.”

    Do you agree – were the teams more exhausted/beaten down than normal due to the shortened time btwn games?

    I had to watch the game on delay via DVR (where I inevitably end up fast-forwarding between plays), and couldn’t get a sense.

  21. Screensmoke says:

    Well pdway you a head of me! I never got them(his posts)

  22. pdway, I can’t help but think how hard Seattle played vs NE, and how poorly SF played against NYG, had an effect on this game. It almost seemed like they used the NYG game to rest up, in a way.

  23. Hi Screensmoke. Who are you again?

  24. Screensmoke says:

    I do think their is something to that pdway!

  25. I think Simmons’ point is that two NFL games in 5 days, esp if they are really physical ones, is just about too much for these guys’ bodies to take. He may have a point. Gore didn’t look so good when he was on the bench in the 4th last night.

  26. Screensmoke says:

    I’m oil and your vinegar buts that’s allright radeon. We can agree to disagree on our viewpoints but atleast we make a good salad dressing togetherand we both truly are hawk fans!

  27. SandpointHawk says:

    After reading that crap everyone spewed last night I think Ryan did very good with his “pouting party” tag line…..

  28. Ewalters7354 says:

    I don’t think the D gave up but I do question the offense aside from Marshawn Lynch.Sidney Rice went nuts when Russ Wilson threw that pick.I think that’s the danger in having a rookie QB that during his growing process has cost this team wins.This team is being held back by that.Though I believe he’ll continue to grow.

    One thing I always did find funny is every time the offense struggles the blame goes on the WRs and playcalling but no one holds Russell Wilson accountable.I just look forward to hearing Pete Carroll say how they didn’t help him much even though they ran the ball well.

    Also why not feed the beast at least 25 times a game and throw to Sidney Rice at least ten times a game?It seems that Golden Tate gets most of the targets.

  29. Ewalters7354 says:

    RADEoN keep speaking how you feel bro.You have every right to say how you feel as a fan.Let the bashers who think the hawks are just this perfect team with no glaring holes bash and reality will so come crashing down.

    Also I will not be satisfied with another 7-9 season.This team is entirely too talented to be the second coming of the Dallas Cowboys.

    Looking at the schedule the only two games that I see the hawks losing (granted they have better QB play is to the niners and Bears.Even though I believe this team can beat both of them.

  30. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Agreed Ewalters7354. Those against the idea of a dwarf quarterback should not be bullied by trolls. People are bending over backwards to excuse Wilson’s play and to dismiss Flynn’s, it’s baffling and ignorant.

  31. Ewalters7354 says:

    Agreed.

    I don’t blame Russ Wilson.I blame Pete Carroll.He basically rushed the rookie into play knowing damn well the kid wasn’t ready.You can have the greatest work ethic and people skills but that doesn’t mean squat on the field.When Wilson was drafted everyone was saying he is a project.Then here comes tge OVERRATED preseason and boom he we are.A team ready to win now being hurt at the most pivotal position in football.That’s why I can understand you guys anger because I am just as dissatisfied.I just try not to get too involved while at work.

  32. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Ewalters7354- Who are the bashers that think this is a perfect team?

    Bro- RADEoN has every right to speak how he feels, and so does everyone else, however anyone, including you and me who chooses to be vicious and insulting over and over again to other posters deserves to be called out from time to time. Agree?

  33. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Preseason is a crock of s*** and a horrible reason why Wilson won the job. He faced vanilla defenses and scrubs, played undisciplined football, and yet our dumb coaching staff got starry-eyed over his numbers and essentially punted our season so we can pray an undersized and overmatched rookie can not suck enough to lead our team to the playoffs.

  34. GooseRocks says:

    Carroll said Rice was upset because there should have been a defensive PI on his defender.

  35. Ewalters7354 says:

    Georgia

    The bashers are those who are drinking thr Russ Wilson kool aid.The ones who get sensitive anytime his name and crtism are mentioned in the same sentence.You yourself are one the main people early on coming to Russell Wilson’s every rescue.But then you awoke out of the dream and stepped into reality.

    Also I definitely agree with you and I understand the offence taken, I do.But I think sometimes you guys forget that everyone doesn’t express themselves the way you or myself might think they should.There’s no use in always getting mad and calling posters trolls, knowing these guys love the hawks just as much as any of us.So to have animosity towards guys who have their own individual personalities is pointless to me.

  36. Ewalters7354 says:

    It just upsets me that the head coach of the team I love is so stubborn that even in the midst of the first 7 games QB play has been the biggest problem and you love and believe in this ROOKIE so much that you are willing to lie to the public about Matt Flynn’s injury situation and here this guy HIMSELF is saying he’s ready to play.It’s just the L.A. drama PC had brought on to this team that’s drives me up the wall.

  37. Ewalters7354 says:
  38. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Ewalters7354- If you are all for letting some bring this blog down to a typical ESPN blog than you can’t expect to have it one way, or your way. It goes both ways.
    So why complain at all? Let RADEoN and ACIAB say what they want, and also let any other poster say what they want. If that’s the standard you want than fine. No problem. Just don’t complain about it.

  39. Hawksince77 says:

    Coming late to the party, as I was just able to watch the game. Read most of the comments – couldn’t get through all of them, though. Anyway, a couple of observations I haven’t read anywhere else:

    1 – the drops were uncharactaristic, although killers (as has been often said) in this game. I mapped every throw in the Panther game, and discovered there wasn’t one drop. That’s unusual. Last night was unusual as well, in the opposite way.

    2 – I watched every pass play carefully. Wilson made one bad read/decision/throw the entire game. One. Check out any other QB in the NFL to see if they can match that performance. Let me give you a heads up: they can’t. The only other pass that could be criticized was the one that was tipped. Again, a great defensive play. Who knows where that ball would otherwise have ended up?

    3 – Every other pass was on target, without exception (I challenge anyone to find a poor throw the entire game, one that didn’t give his receiver a chance to make a play). Aside from the drops and the throw-aways, several passes were well-defensed. For example, the Edwards pass in the endzone: perfectly placed, and Edwards had it in his hands. The defense made a great play to break it up.

    4 – Tate was clearly interferred with on one of the plays down the field. I will again put this as good defense, as the refs were letting the physical CB play go all game, on both sides. All in all, that probably served Seattle best anyways.

    5 – very few completions the second half, but also very few attempts. Mostly running plays. As I already said, every pass Wilson made was on target, and all good reads (with one exception).

    6 – and here is the most interesting thing I have to say (are you still paying attention?): there were 3 second and 1 plays in the game. On every one of them they ran the ball, 2 of them for first downs. So great, you make 2 yards and get the first. That’s okay, but why not take advantage of that excellent situation for a shot down the field? That’s as high a percentage of big play opportunity you are going to get, and they had three of those opportunities, and squandered every one of them.

    7 – The defense was stressed and beat up, but they did great against a good offense. They will continue to get even better.

    8 – Alex Smith is not very good. If Wilson started for the niners, nobody could beat them.

  40. sluggo42 says:

    Anyone else notice that Radeon and ewalters are never in the same place at the same time….. just sayin…

  41. Hawksince77 says:

    9 – one last comment: that throw to Obo on the 4th and 18 to end the game was clutch. The penalty was stupid (on the part of the player, not the ref). Six inches short, but that’s on Obo, not Wilson.

    All you knuckleheads who want to blame Wilson for losing this game display an incredible ignorance. I listened to the game initially, and was prepared to see some truly poor play at the position, and found the opposite. Wilson played another very fine football game, one that would compare favorably with any starting QB in the league, if you compare play-to-play. High level of accuracy, poise, decision making, and clutch play.

  42. Ewalters7354 says:

    Georgia,

    It is not by any means astandard nor double standard.Reread my post(without being in a hurry to defend the reason you dislike RADEoN and ACIB ) and you’ll see that I agreed with everything you said.I’m simply implying that some of you guys take hyperbole a little to close to the sensitive side.

    Sluggo,you can’t be serious smh..

  43. Ewalters7354 says:

    77, are you saying that throwing the ball into triple coverage is clutch play? Or how about throwing the ball away on 3 and 17 with the game on the line?

    I don’t put all the blame on Wilson but even he himself acknowledges that he didn’t perform to a level to help this team win.You also have to hold the pass catchers accountable, I get that.But as far as QB play it is not being handled the way it’s suppose to be.All that is managing the game and talking care or the football.I think this coaching staff is so infatuated with this guy that they are willing to abandon what works to try and make a rookie become a elite.Feed Lynch at least 20 times, Turbin another 10, and get the ball to Sidney Rice’s direction on a consistent basis and that will open up opportunities for the other guys.

  44. Hawksince77 says:

    10 – I lied, one more thought. There were two deep passes (both to Tate, I think, one of them I mentioned above regarding the defensive interference) and Mayock thought they were poor decisions by Wilson because it was late in the half and they risked giving the ball to the niners with time still left to score.

    I completely disagree. For one thing, it’s unlikely that Wilson actually called the play – Bevell did, and he was right to do so: both were decent shots at a big play, one of which hit Tate in the hands (if memory serves). That’s exactly the kind of play-calling we want to see. Wilson completed about 50% of those plays against NE, and it made all the difference. You can’t make big plays without taking those kinds of shots, and I thought there were good play calls, and good throws by Wilson.

  45. Hawksince77 says:

    Ewalters,

    I think you are suffering from poor reading comprehesion. Try it again:

    “Wilson made one bad read/decision/throw the entire game. One.”

    That would be the interception. I didn’t call it clutch. Read this again:

    “that throw to Obo on the 4th and 18 to end the game was clutch.”

    As far as throwing the ball away on 3rd and 17, that was preferable to a sack or an interception, the likely two options in that case. Ideal? No. Good decision? Probably.

  46. Hawksince77 says:

    This I don’t even understand:

    “I think this coaching staff is so infatuated with this guy that they are willing to abandon what works to try and make a rookie become a elite.Feed Lynch at least 20 times, Turbin another 10, and get the ball to Sidney Rice’s direction on a consistent basis and that will open up opportunities for the other guys.”

    According to NFL.com, Lynch had 19 carries (almost 20) and there were a total of 10 more between Washington, Wilson and Turbin, for a total of 29 rushing plays.

    Wilson attempted a total of 23 passes. If anything, the play calling was skewed the wrong direction in this game, specifically on those 3 second and shorts.

    Without looking at the specific context (down/distance/clock/score) it’s impossible to credibly criticize the play calling. You can’t just say they should total one way or another, like your comment appears to do.

  47. Ewalters7354 says:

    77,

    That’s just what I take from what you are saying.If I misunderstood you I apologize.

    You keep saying Wilson only made one bad throw the entire game.Well please explain to me how you complete only 3 passes in the second half? That has been a constant problem with Russell Wilson.He shows up the first quarter, then disappears until the final minutes.I feel what Skip Bayless is saying when he says this has a “Tebow” feel to it.

  48. hawks77 – always appreciate your posts.

    Here’s another sentiment i don’t understand – the idea that Carroll is either ‘infatuated’ or ‘too stubborn’ to make a change. B.S. This is professional football, and you keep your job if you show progess and win. If anything, Carroll has shown himself to be the opposite of playing favorites, or letting emotions interfere with his personnel decisions. We’ve seen lots of quick, unemotional player cuts in his tenure. If Carroll thought Flynn was better, he’d be starting, period.

    Same with Whitehurst last year. Same with whoever challenges Wilson for the starting spot next year. Some people just want to invent rationales to fit their narrative.

    Wilson has had his down moments, but he’s shown me enough to verify that again, Carroll knows what he’s doing. It’s still crazy to me how many people say things like, ‘we’ve got an elite defense, and this coach is wasting them’, who do you think built this elite defense, piece by piece?

    Anyway . .

  49. something to get all of us annoyed (but at least agree about in our annoyance):

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/19/49ers-complain-that-seahawks-cornerbacks-got-away-with-contact/

    Harbaugh = most despised person in professional sports (schultz excepted)

  50. Hawksince77 says:

    Ewalters writes: “You keep saying Wilson only made one bad throw the entire game.Well please explain to me how you complete only 3 passes in the second half?”

    You are making a logical assumption that 3 completions in a half equates to making some number of bad throws. Your logic isn’t sound, and doesn’t match empirical scrutiny. If you want to refute my statement (and it’s possible Wilson made a poor throw I missed) then call it out: when and where did the poor pass take place? At what point in the game? Down/distance, to what receiver? And finally, what made it a poor throw?

    I only counted one the entire game – the deep pass for an interception in the first half on a 2nd and 8 play. Not a good decision; not a good pass. A predictable interception (although not devastating, as it turns out, as it put the niners on their own 28). But still, it was only second down; had it been a third down play, the results would have been equivilent to a punt. But it wasn’t…

    When Wilson threw the ball out of bounds on the penultimate play, he did so to prevent a possible sack (would have ended the game right there) or force the ball into coverage and a possible pick – another game-ending possibility. Instead, he threw it out of bounds to give himself one more chance (one that I assert he made the most of).

    Watch the game again. Find another poor throw. Yes, the one that Lynch dropped wasn’t perfectly thrown, but Lynch put both hands on it. Several throws were made into tight windows, like the incompletion to Edwards in the endzone, but I can’t remember one throw (outside the pic) that I would have graded as ‘poor’ or ‘off target’ or a ‘poor decision’. He was consistently good from beginning to end.

    While some of his passes were defensed, none of them came close to being intercepted (with that one exception). Game circumstances shaped the final numbers: an excellent defense; a lot of effective running plays; a half-dozen dropped passes; a few thrown out of bounds, presumably for good reason. Did he play perfectly? No. Without doubt, he probably left plays on the field, but every QB does that, every game. But please, watch ANY other QB in the league; they ALL make poor decisions on occasion, usually several times a game. They ALL miss throws, usually several times a game. I am talking about the best: Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning – none of them play perfectly every play every game. Ever. But for some reason, that seems to be the standard for Russell Wilson.

    By his own fans. Who should know better.

  51. MEhawkfan says:

    In the second half, it seemed the Niner’s pass rush intensified quite a bit; the O-line didn’t pass protect as well as they should have. Those two factors certainly played a role in Wilson’s second half showing.

  52. Hawksince77 says:

    pdway,

    Completely agree. PC will start (and play) whoever he thinks plays the best football at the positon – period. We’ve seen that time and time again. I remember at one time the majority of fans thought Lendale White would be the starting tailback (there was a poll) a week before he was cut.

    TO, Mike Williams, Lofa, – the list goes on and on. Some other coaches say it, PC does it.

    About the Harbough thing; he’s completely right. I don’t remember seeing this on Browner, but Sherman was all over the niner WRs, and could have/should have been called a half-dozen times, at least. But, they did it the same the other way, and didn’t call the interference on Tate, and quite honestly, I would rather the game be played that way. But no doubt the CBs were playing beyond the rules.

    As for the facemask by Clemons, that should have been called, in my opinion: it was blatent, and obviously affected Smith’s ability to make that throw.

    What can you say? Bring back the replacements…

  53. MEhawkfan says:

    Wilson’s decision to throw that ball into triple-coverage might have been influenced slightly by Patrick Willis. Unless I’m mistaken, I seem to recall that Willis drilled him in the right side about half a second after he released that ball.

    Not exonerating Wilson, just noting. I’ve seen many tall, experienced, and elite QB’s in the NFL make similar errors in judgement under similar circumstances.

  54. Hawksince77 says:

    MEhawk;

    Yes, Wilson got drilled, but it was a split second after he delivered the ball, so the hit didn’t influence where the ball went, but to your point, may have rushed the throw.

    Maybe with a little better protection, Wilson gets to see Rice, who seemed to think he should have gotten the throw (he threw his mouthpiece on the field in apparent rage). But that’s all conjecture, and absolutely doesn’t exonerate Wilson, as you point out.

    But that’s why it’s nearly impossible for anyone to play what is considered by many the most difficult position in professional sports perfectly. Too many powerfully fast moving parts ready to crush to slow witted…

  55. MEhawkfan says:

    Indeed, I think it may have rushed the throw. I also wonder if Willis, coming in from the right, didn’t alter or influence Wilson’s ability or effort to scan the right side of the field, which happened to be the side Rice was running free on. If so, that would certainly speak to why Wilson didn’t heave the ball toward Rice.

  56. Hawksince77 says:

    Full disclosure – I think I recall one ball Wilson threw a couple of feet over his receiver for an incompletion.

    So if that’s right, that makes two poor throws for a game.

    That’s still upper-echelon performance.

  57. Screensmoke says:

    Interesting point hawk 77- yhe funny thing is you are exactly right! I rewarchrd the game and what’s really crazy is after rewatching game I like him alot more now than before this game. I was pretty neutral on him previously but except for those bad 2 bad passes he was reall impressive actually blew my mind away the problem I observe d was that most of the incredible pure top notch throws were dropped.I still can’t believe how impressive he was! I know this whole thing sounds crazy but man watch the replay! I am actually after this loss officially a believer. Unbelevable!

  58. Ewalters7354 says:

    77, I have one.What about the screen pass that Marshawn Lynch didn’t catch because it was thrown behind him on 3rd down in the fourth quarter? I won’t get all nto specifics because fact is he went 9 for 23 with 6 credited drops, ok what about the other 8 incompletions? You just fail to give critism where it’s due.I am not saying the game was all his fault.All I’m simply saying is this team is at a disadvantage not being to consistently throw the ball over the middle of the field because our QB can’t see over his blockers and this blocking scheme is doing him no favors.So being in that hole defenses will just bracket the inside like on the deep throw to Golden Tate though itbwas an uncalled P.I.

    Russell Wilson was rushed into the starting job.You can say what you want.

    Also, the guys Pete Carroll cut or benched were boneheaded players who thought the team was all about them(ala Housh, Golden Tate being benched his rookie season in the season opener,Lendell White, etc..) So your disagreement is based on what I believe is denial of what’s obvious.

  59. Ewalters7354 says:

    So now Russell Wilson is elite because of the hidden stats? You guy a really hilarious.

  60. Ewalters7354 says:
  61. Ewalters7354 says:

    With that being said, if someone can explain to me how our upper echelon QB
    play has this team ranked 31st in the league, I won’t say another word about it.Is it the WRs? Bevell? Carroll? O-line? I honestly need clarification…

  62. Hawksince77 says:

    Ewalters,

    I wrote “Yes, the one that Lynch dropped wasn’t perfectly thrown, but Lynch put both hands on it.”

    There is a difference between a ‘poorly’ thrown ball and an ‘imperfectly’ thrown pass that hits the receiver in his hands. In fact, even though that throw was a little low, it was placed in such a way that Lynch could run up field immediately. That was technically a ‘dropped’ pass.

    Some of the other incompletions were two deep balls to Tate; a few throw-aways (doing this from memory); a pass to Rice that he had in his hands and was stripped in an excellent defensive play; the endzone throw to Edwards, also stripped; the one over-throw mentioned above. That alone accounts for 7 or 8 of the other incompletions, all of them on target.

    You go on to say:

    “All I’m simply saying is this team is at a disadvantage not being to consistently throw the ball over the middle of the field because our QB can’t see over his blockers and this blocking scheme is doing him no favors.”

    You don’t know this. You are simply assuming it without even looking at the actual numbers. Wilson has shown outstanding precision while throwing in the middle of the field. The following was written prior to his peformance against NE:

    “Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson completed all 10 pass attempts for 141 yards and a touchdown when targeting receivers in the middle of the field, defined as between the yard-line numbers. He had completed 30 of 45 such passes for 282 yards with one score, three interceptions and a 63.4 NFL passer rating on those throws previously this season.”

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/index/_/count/106

    Ain’t facts a bitch.

    This is the crutch of your complaint against Wilson:

    “Russell Wilson was rushed into the starting job.You can say what you want.”

    You don’t agree with the decision, period, and you need to continue to argue against it, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

    Finally this:

    “With that being said, if someone can explain to me how our upper echelon QB
    play has this team ranked 31st in the league, I won’t say another word about it.Is it the WRs? Bevell? Carroll? O-line? I honestly need clarification…”

    The answer is simple: this is the offense Pete Carroll wants to run. It’s not Wilson calling for running plays on 3rd and 4 like we just witnessed. Or Wilson calling for so few passing plays through-out the game. Nor Wilson calling run/run/throw series in the red-zone.

    Finally, the only stat that matters is the win/loss column. And even when those numbers are superior, you aren’t guaranteed a superbowl win (go ask the 18-1 NE Patriots). It doesn’t matter where the offense/defense/passing attack or whatever is ranked; what matters is winning, and that’s what PC cares about, and he has structured the team and established the strategy based on a powerful defense (check) and a crushing run game (check again, although it faltered a bit against NE). If it was me, I’d like to see a more aggressive passing attack, like on those 2nd and short I mentioned above, but it’s not: it’s all on PC.

    Not only is Russell Wilson playing well for a rookie, he is playing well, and getting better all the time. He played against a top NFL defense, and got very little help from his receivers, and in some cases, from his o-line. We all remember the drops, but how many receptions made us say “that was a great catch!” Had Edwards held on to that TD pass, for instance; or had any of the other contested throws come down in the hands of Seattle receivers.

    Hell, if they had simply made the routine plays, the game ends up entirely different.

    But they didn’t, and that’s football. Sometimes it breaks your way, sometimes not. Seattle had a chance (a good chance) to win that game, and Wilson is a big reason why.

  63. Screensmoke says:

    best post I have ever read on this blog..hawk 77 I am impressed ! Well done. Hard to argue with that.what I find so interesting is that is what I observed exactly, when I rewarched the game. I dodo observed golden Tate is not a team player and his days are numbered in Seattle. Some people just don’t get it and he’s one of them. Rewatching the game I noticed him just totally doging it when the play wasn’t about him. It’s amazing to me on how he just quits on a play or gives half ass effort.He really does need to go by by. I have givn up on him I hope he can prove me wrong!

  64. Ewalters7354 says:

    77,
    You have some valid facts, but that still doesn’t help me understand,why Wilson is doing so superbly,to you guys.I know he has decent numbers deep across the middle of the field only,when he has clear passing lanes,though.From what I see,it’s hard for this team to run a shallow crosses, slants, or drags, (staples of the WCO) because his height disorder (nfl wise) puts even more of a strain on the O-line having to block for longer amounts if time,causing receivers to have run deeper routes, all because our talented QB can’t see over his lineman.

  65. CDHawkFan says:

    Nice post Hawks77. I saw a different RW in the NE game, he was taking some risks and throwing into coverage and it worked. Like with T. Jack last year, I think PC scares the crap out of QB’s into not taking risks, for TJ it was sacks, for RW its throw-a-ways or running.

    Saw a lot of that in the first 5 weeks, then let loose against NE to keep up, but it seemed to go back to the no risks mindset against SF.

    They are taking it slow with the rookie. While not perfect, a Edwards catch against the Cards and a few more catches last night and this 3rd round pick would be the talk of the league.

    BTW as a side note, I would like to point out that its nice to know that PC seems to have the guys ready to play on the road and for a 1 pm East Coast games, laying an egg seemed to be common before his arrival, even in the HM days. Its nice to know we always have a chance, we’ve had the ball late with the game on the line in 6 out of the 7 games, not bad for a young team.

  66. Hawksince77 says:

    Ewalters wrote “but that still doesn’t help me understand,why Wilson is doing so superbly.”

    I never described his play in those words. This is how I summed up his play:

    “Not only is Russell Wilson playing well for a rookie, he is playing well, and getting better all the time.”

    I suspect that most Seahawk fans that are critical of Wilson feel that way due to a lingering desire to see Flynn at the position. They tend to hold Wilson to a mythical standard of Flynn’s record breaking performance against Detroit, without understanding the context of that game, or Flynn’s performance in it.

    Others, like yourself, don’t like his height:

    “From what I see,it’s hard for this team to run a shallow crosses, slants, or drags, (staples of the WCO) because his height disorder (nfl wise) puts even more of a strain on the O-line having to block for longer amounts if time,causing receivers to have run deeper routes, all because our talented QB can’t see over his lineman.”

    There is no evidence for this. Wilson hit Tate on a shallow slant last night (hit him square in the chest). Wilson also hit Tate for a shallow slant for a TD in the Panther game.

    Every NFL QB has to find passing lanes. I have a theory (along the lines of your theory, but I will actually back it up with some facts) that taller QBs get more passes batted at the line than Wilson, because Wilson works harder to find effective passing lanes than QBs of prototypical size. Witness the Panter game: Newton had several balls batted at the line of scrimmage, whereas Wilson had zero.

    Every QB gets balls batted down on occasion, but you rarely see one batted down from Wilson.

    Finally, every QB has strength and weaknesses, without exception, and Wilson is no exception. There are things he does well, and some not so well (although there are very few, if any, fundamental weaknesses in his game). That being the case, it is in the interest of the OC, and the QB himself, to lean on the strengths and to minimize the impact of his weaknesses. For example, screen passes: the one play I think Wilson at a distinct disadvantage, because you must deliberately lete the defensive line through prior to making the throw. This makes such a play more difficult for Wilson because of his height, and in fact, if you watch carefully, he throws the ball to Lynch on the screen AROUND the defender, not over him.

    CDHawkFan;

    Prior to the NE game, I agree: Wilson took very few chances. He was far more aggressive against NE, for good reason. It was the only chance they had to win.

    I actually think I threw more aggressively last night than he did in the previous games, with the exception of NE. He rarely threw a contested pass in the first five games, and he threw half a dozen last night. Unfortunaely, his receivers didn’t come down with any of them (whereas in the NE game he completed about half of them).

    I think it’s a good trend. I think PC can trust Wilson to play more aggressively. Yes, that will result in more incompletions, and in some cases, more pics, but it will also net more big plays down field.

  67. chuck_easton says:

    Hawksince77,

    9 completions 22 attempts 122 total passing yards 0 TDs 1 INT 38 passer rating

    But if those are stats that you equate to a perfectly fine game stat for any good NFL QB ok.

    Let’s be real here. The rookie had a bad game no matter how you try to spin it.

    Let’s just hope next week is more like the NE game and move on. But don’t try to insult the football intelligence on this site by even trying to spin those numbers as a perfectly fine game.

  68. Hawksince77 says:

    As far as the game last night, I charactirized Wilson’s performance this way:

    “[Wilson] was consistently good from beginning to end.”

    The point is, I don’t think Wilson is playing “great”, or “elite” right now. And I also don’t know if he will continue to develop. It’s possible (although unlikely) we have seen his best football. If that was the case, he would be somewhere in the average third of the league, perhaps even at the lower realm of that third, which might be pretty damn good for a rookie, but would be a level of play that few of us would be satisfied for indefinitely.

    Given the full circumstances of the situation, and considering the nature of the team he plays on (very well suited for a rookie QB), and the difference between his play at the beginning of the season and right now, Seahawk fans have reason to be excited. We are witnessing the beginning of a great future, and Pete Carroll is 100% responsible. He is building a team to contend for multiple championships, and even if they don’t make it to that game this year, we can be confident that he will within the next season or two.

  69. Hawksince77 says:

    chuck writes: “But don’t try to insult the football intelligence on this site by even trying to spin those numbers as a perfectly fine game.”

    I was doing exactly the opposite. I was crediting the readers of this site with the intelligence to consider the actual facts of the case as opposed to simply relying on stats taken out of context.

    “Let’s be real here. The rookie had a bad game no matter how you try to spin it.”

    Okay, let’s be real. Name a play, a throw, a decision (outside of the interception) that can be charactarized as a ‘bad’ play. Because that’s how the game is played: one play at a time, and all the QB can do is run the play called, make his reads, and throw the ball.

    Wilson did all of that just fine. Challenge your own intelligence to make a case (using the facts of the game) that he didn’t.

  70. Hawksince77 says:

    You won’t, chuck, because you can’t. People here love to make unsupported generalizations without actually referencing what actually took place on the field.

    Typical.

  71. chuck_easton says:

    Hawks,

    Wilson is a rookie. Games like last night are going to happen.

    It was not a good performance. Of the 13 incompletions 6 were drops by the receivers. That leaves another 7 incompletions in which Wilson didn’t get the ball to a receiver to give him a chance to make the catch. 3 total completions in the 2nd half.

    Those are not stats I expect from any starting NFL QB.

    I’m not saying Wilson shouldn’t be playing. But just because you may like the person don’t even try to say that was a good performance. Even Wilson himself said he didn’t have a good game.

    Wilson isn’t satisfied with last nights performance and I’m not going to be either just because you say it was a fine job. It wasn’t.

    I expect better. I don’t expect Wilson to be Brady, Manning, Rogers, or Brees YET but I will not accept last night as anything close to a good performance.

  72. Screensmoke says:

    Hawk77 I will sleep well tonight because of you!YOU GET IT!thank you. Your a smart man and a breath of fresh air on this blog!it’s nice to know that I’m not alone in seeing what is really going on with this team! I can’t put into words how much I appreciate it! Thank you

  73. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    “Given the full circumstances of the situation, and considering the nature of the team he plays on (very well suited for a rookie QB), and the difference between his play at the beginning of the season and right now, Seahawk fans have reason to be excited. We are witnessing the beginning of a great future”

    Sorry, but this is absolute nonsense and drivel. Wilson is certainly not ascending week by week in some linear progression, he remains mediocre at best. His one “good” game of the season was against the NFL’s worst secondary where he had a majority of his game’s performance hinge on 3 or 4 passes. We have NOT seen anything remotely approaching a consistent rhythm of a passing attack by him and I guarantee we never will. He is too short and too overmatched to play quarterback at high level in the pro level.

  74. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    You can whine about drops until you’re blue in the face, that doesn’t give Wilson a get out of jail free card for his own ghastly performances. Drops never stopped Matt Hasselbeck.

  75. Ewalters7354 says:

    It’s amazing the backlash one recieves once you talk about the Golden Boy.What’s painful as a fan is seeing these games played on an edge every time.In those situation the kid has 2(1) career comebacks.

    I think the Dallas game plan benefited our young QB more than any other.

  76. confucious says:

    ACIB. Jeez man. Drivel? 77’s fingertips are raw from citing specifics in support of wilson. He needs to buy a new keyboard in the morning. And here you are throwing out schoolyard adjectives and blanket statements. C’mon man. This is YOUR forum. Let’s hear specifics as to why we should flush wilson and promote flynn. Honestly I’m all for what makes this team better. Improve your delivery. Tell him chuck! Pull him aside and give him some pointers. And to everybody else (acib,Radeon bashers) If we all agreed, all the time this board would be boring. Give m some slack and some room to make their arguments. There are a lot of us who still live in our mothers basements with our fifth grade diplomas proudly posted over our bunkbeds. So we don’t have polish of some of you graduated debaters. So be a little leniant, will you? And if my crock of opinionated s*it pisses you off. Feel free not to post a comment.

  77. Ewalters7354 says:

    confucious, lol amen bro

  78. confucious says:

    I can see where RW needs to shoulder some responsibility for the loss. He was inaccurate on a few throws, He is late some of the time causing receptions to be more contested. We still need to take momentum into account. Had some of the early catches been made in the first quarter, they may not have needed to press with the passing game the rest of the contest. I think both o and d lines need to shoulder some grief here as well. Our Oline was lacking some polish. The 2nd half pass pro looked like fine cheese from switzerland. I’m going to have to study up on zone blocking. If nobody is in your zone is it time to drink a latte? I saw giacomini on an island while carp and Okung were doubling and unger was getting beat more than once in the sf game. That leaves one unchecked rusher. The Hawks have to continue to seek coninuity on the Offensive line for any Qb to be successful. That imo is THE priority for this team.

  79. CDHawkFan says:

    Confucious, the way ACIB writes, I can only believe he is really not that upset or would never come across that negatively about the Hawks in person because it comes off as so over the top. I think he writes to get his point across, but mostly he writes in a way that he knows will get under people’s skin, a very weird way of communicating.
    I think he loves to see people react to his posts in a pissed off way.

  80. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “The Hawks have to continue to seek coninuity on the Offensive line for any Qb to be successful. That imo is THE priority for this team”

    I agree with that. 2005 was the last time I saw continuity on the o-line.

    Again, no wonder Manning didn’t want any part of playing behind this line.
    The run blocking seems to be coming along, however is it at the expense of the pass blocking.
    Time will tell but I think it will be awhile,( and a few more o-line and WR additions ), before this offense can be a top 10 offense, imo.

  81. GeorgiaHawk says:

    CDHawkFan- I think you are right about acib. When he/she is responded to with a question as to why he thinks that way, or what would be a better solution it kind of takes the wind out of the rants.

    I look at it this way. At least we don’t have to listen to the T Jack rants anymore.
    Sometimes it’s like a pack of dogs around here. Always one that barks the loudest, and when that dog goes away another one steps up to take it’s place.

  82. confucious says:

    Linemen get too little credit for the offenses performance imo. To watch the SF Oline run block is to watch olympic syncronized swimming (forgive me there but I watched it with my wife last summer). They did not hesitate, they pulled and filled the run lane just in front of gore and met their assignment squarely. I was completely impressed. When we get there, we will have the consistency that I have wished for sisnce the inception of this team. (Was a GB fan before this team came along)

  83. Hawksince77 says:

    chuck wrote: “Wilson is a rookie.”

    All the more reason to be impressed with his performance.

    Next: “It was not a good performance. Of the 13 incompletions 6 were drops by the receivers. That leaves another 7 incompletions in which Wilson didn’t get the ball to a receiver to give him a chance to make the catch. 3 total completions in the 2nd half.”

    So let’s say of those six drops, five of them were caught. Now Wilson is 14/23, and the entire game has changed. More yardage, higher completion percentage, more opportunities, and likely, given the context of the drops, a higher score for the Seahawks. PC said that the drops made all the difference in the game. That, and his defense’s inability to stop Gore.

    Now for the incompletions. Of the 7, at least 2 were throwaways. That brings us to 5. The interception and the overthrow brings us to 3. Of those 3, we have the ball where Tate was interfered, and the tipped pass. The last incompletion in this category had to be one where the receiver had it in his hands and was stripped. In every case, Wilson made a good decision and a good throw.

    Next: “Those are not stats I expect from any starting NFL QB.”

    Good luck finding a starting QB who consistently does better. Most of them make a poorer percentage of good decisions and on-target throws. Just look at Alex Smith. He had far more missed throws, and his interception was atrocious. He has arguably a far better offense to lead (offensive line, WRs, TEs, RBs) and Seattle made him look sad. He was an overall first pick in the draft, and has played for something like 6 years, and like the past several games, Wilson out-played him.

    Next: “I’m not saying Wilson shouldn’t be playing. But just because you may like the person don’t even try to say that was a good performance.”

    I don’t LIKE Wilson. I like watching the Seahawks win football games, and to do that, they need the best player possible at the QB position. For the first time since 2007, I am enjoying watching quality play at the QB postion for the Seahawks, and it’s a genuine pleasure, because he gives them a far better chance to win football games than any of the alternatives.

    Next: “Even Wilson himself said he didn’t have a good game.”

    That’s not what he said. What he said was that he could play better. And that will be true for a long time. He will have the potential to improve for a long time (hopefully). Besides, what else was he going to say? My receivers need to catch the ball?

    Next: “Wilson isn’t satisfied with last nights performance and I’m not going to be either just because you say it was a fine job. It wasn’t.”

    First part – of course he wasn’t satisfied: they lost. And if you listen to the entire interview, he will say that he needs to learn from the good and bad of every game, win or lose. It will be a long time (if ever) before Wilson is satisfied with his performance within a game. He wants to be pefect, and that is nearly impossible.

    As far as you being satisfied, that’s fine. You are not congnizent of Wilson’s demonstrated competence, nor are you giving him play-by-play credit for his performance. That’s on you, not him.

    Next: “I expect better.”

    So do I, so we agree. Wilson will continue to improve, most likely.

    “I don’t expect Wilson to be Brady, Manning, Rogers, or Brees YET but I will not accept last night as anything close to a good performance.”

    For some reason that seems to be the criteria for Wilson’s performance (Brady, Manning, etc.). You want to see poor QB play? Consider Cam against Seattle; Romo’s 5 interception game; Blaine Gabbert, some of Weeden’s games, Rodgers first half against the Seahawks. Lots of examples to choose from.

  84. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    confucious, couldn’t agree more problem is ACIB doesn’t want debate he is a sad little boy living in mommy’s basement who just likes to troll on in here and cause waves. he isn’t interested in healthy debate he isn’t capable of one.

    ACIB “Wilson a get out of jail free card for his own ghastly performances. Drops never stopped Matt Hasselbeck your words

    really? your opinion means so much to you that you try to rewrite history to make your point. the hawks lost games because of those drops. does the name koren robinson sound familiar?

    Sorry, but this is absolute nonsense and drivel. Wilson is certainly not ascending week by week in some linear progression, he remains mediocre at best. His one “good” game of the season was against the NFL’s worst secondary where he had a majority of his game’s performance hinge on 3 or 4 passes. We have NOT seen anything remotely approaching a consistent rhythm of a passing attack by him and I guarantee we never will. He is too short and too overmatched to play quarterback at high level in the pro level.

    pats were not the worst 27 th actually look up stats before you talk out your ass. wilson also had a good first half against the 9ers and the same things he showed in the pats game. again the drops affected the score and wilsons stats. i wonder if you really pay attention to the games? he had rhythm several points in the game then a drop on a good pass, oh but that’s right you don’t think drops can throw a QB rhythm off or affect his confidence. your arguments are weak your guarantees are laughable and your knowledge of football is a joke.

    again ACIB here are the questions answer them or go away.

    1. what makes you so sure you have it right and flynn would be better?
    facts not hyperbole or senseless ranting.

    2. they make the switch and it is no better. what then? if flynn with his 2 games pro experience fails what then? on previous posts you have suggested they then stick with flynn. why does that make more sense then running with the rookie? again don’t rant state it concisely to the point with no insults.

    3. are you capable of being an adult and posting in a mature manner or are you a sociopath that can not control himself feeling the need to bully and denigrate?

    funny part is i am not completely sold that wilson will be great. your behavior thou ACIB makes me point out the flaws in your statements.

  85. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    well said 77

  86. Hawk77 – very nice set of posts here. Very rational point-by-point analysis of RW and the game.

    I think it is highly likely that PC and his coaches will closely examine the game tape and will see what you have pointed out. I really doubt that they will make any decision regarding RW based solely on stats that just do not tell the whole story. And in the final analysis, we can all argue until we are blue in the face, it is PC who decides whether RW has what it takes to the be the QB of this team.

    I tend to think RW has what it takes and just needs to have some more talent around him. But I do wonder if ultimately he will plateau due to his height, but I think we won’t know that for a year or two.

  87. Hawksince77 says:

    chuck,

    After thinking about it for another minute, there were only 4 pure drops in the game (although they all were drive killers):

    1 – Turbin, may have been a TD, or close to it. Would have changed the entire game had it caught it.

    2 – Even Moore. Right through his hands. But not sure how much difference it made – the next play was the long strike to Obo.

    3 – slant bounce off the chest of Tate. Huge 3rd down play.

    4 – drop by Lynch. Likely a first down, if he catches it.

    The other 3 must be the ones to Edwards in the endzone; Tate deep down the field; and Rice near the sideline. In those three cases, while Wilson delivered a nice ball, the defense gets credit for turning those into incompletions, in my opinion. It would have taken an exceptional play by the receiver to hold on.

    But that’s what you get playing top-notch defenses. The margin for success is very very slight.

  88. Hawksince77 says:

    hawkfan in ok: Thanks. As to ACIB, I simply don’t read his posts anymore. I am all for discussion, debate, intelligent disagreement, presentation of facts/thoughts that will improve my understanding of the game, and he never provides any of that.

  89. confucious says:

    77, throwing the the ball too late in a couple circumstances (edwards in the end zone, Rice in the flat) could be a reason for incompletions. RW definately needs to make quicker decisions in some instances.

  90. Hawksince77 says:

    Pilot wrote: “But I do wonder if ultimately he will plateau due to his height,”

    If people want to worry about something, this is it. Every player has a ceiling, and it’s impossible to say how close somebody is to it.

    In Wilson’s case, he will only become an exceptional NFL QB by continuing to improve his game. At some point he will reach his natural limit, hopefully not for some time yet.

    If I was to argue against his further improvement, this is what I might point out: he has already played a ton of games. He has worked really hard already to get to where he is today. What if he has already reached his potential? What if this is the best he will ever do?

    If I was to argue for his continued development, I might point out that he is the hardest worker, one of the smartest players, and exhibits an unholy obsession with the game of football. He has always had detracters (witness this blog) and he will never stop working to shut them up.

    While I tend to believe the truth is closer to the latter case, I completely acknowledge the possibility that it’s the former.

  91. confucious says:

    Drops were a huge key to the game however. Really affected the offensive flow imo.

  92. confucious says:

    Jeezus H 77! what? do you grease your keyboard? You type faster than georgia after a 30 point win!

  93. Hawksince77 says:

    confucious wrote: “77, throwing the the ball too late in a couple circumstances (edwards in the end zone, Rice in the flat) could be a reason for incompletions. RW definately needs to make quicker decisions in some instances.”

    Perhaps you’re right. It seemed like the throw to Rice got there late. I thought the one to Edwards was perfectly thrown – on time and where only he could get it. The first defender was beat; as Edwards comes down with the ball, it hits thethe second defender (Willis, I think) in the helmut and pops out.

    So yes, if Wilson played flawlessly, perhaps more balls get caught. The other thing we can’t tell for certain is what plays he misses: what plays did he leave on the field? He and his coach will know, after watching film.

    No doubt he can get better. To me, his worst mistake of the game has never been called out: there was a completion where he threw the ball slightly behind his receiver, an almost carbon-copy of the throw that went for a pick-six against the Panthers. But the defender didn’t break on the ball, and the receiver reached back and caught it.

    That was his worst pass of the game and because most people are caught up with results-based analysis, they don’t even notice.

  94. I certainly think it is worth the investment in RW as the QB of the future and just wait to see if height is an issue.

  95. confucious says:

    I agree Pilot. RW, Bevell, Cable, and the oline have a lot of work to do. That is why I can’t objectively stick a fork in RW or promote him. This is a collective effort (team, if you will) There are too many glaring weaknesses and inconsistencies for one aspect of the offense to shoulder the blame.

  96. MEhawkfan says:

    77- I dropped out last night to watch Prometheus… meh, so I didn’t read all your posts until late AM Eastern time. Your keyboard must have been smokin’ last night. Good posts; I appreciate your logical and rational approach, and I agree with your opinion regarding Wilson.

    It seems painfully obvious to me that at least three of the drops, Turbin’s, Tate’s, and Lynch’s were game-changers. While it is clear those types of negative plays impact the drives in which they occur, what is less obvious, but I think equally important, is the impact they have on successive drives. As in life, in football success breeds confidence, which in turn facilitates the likelihood of continued success. While it is impossible to know, I do believe, had those three plays been made, Seattle would have come out with a W.

  97. GeorgiaHawk says:

    confucious- The only thing I can put out here fast is a song parody!Lol.

    Hawksince77- Are you sure your not the Lawyer here! You are just killing poor Chuck with this debate!
    And you are doing it with facts and logic. And you are not insulting anyones football Intelligence, ( or lack thereof ), by doing it.

    Thanks Hawksince77, you save me alot of pecking.

  98. Hawksince77 says:

    MEHawk;

    When I listened to the game on-line real-time, I was upset and depressed, because it sounded like the offense, and Wilson, had regressed. And of course losing the game, and unable to move the ball with that last drive, was very depressing.

    So I chilled for awhile, and then watched the game on NFL rewind. I watched hyper-critical of every snap Wilson took, ready to identify his mistakes. But by the end of the game, found he hadn’t made many.

    Even the interception wasn’t horrible. It wasn’t good (as I already said above) and I think it was a poor decision and a poor throw, but that was it. Even PC down-played it (“it was like a punt” he said, perhaps forgetting it took place on a 2nd and 8).

    I was critical of Hass’s QB play, and very critical of TJack, because they didn’t play good football (despite glimmers here and there, like Hass’s win over New Orleans, a fine performance on his part). To watch a guy who moves so well, with a quick, over-hand delivery, that throws an accurate ball, that has thrown more TD passes in the final 2 minutes of a game to win than any rookie QB IN HISTORY, who has kept his team in a position to win in EVERY GAME is truly thrilling.

    So after watching the game yesterday, and reading through most of the post-game reaction, I kind of spewed.

  99. Hawksince77 says:

    And the funny thing is, it’s not like anything we write here, or think to ourselves, or the opinion we happen to hold, will have any effect on what takes place on the field. It seems like some people think if they convince somebody of one thing or another, that’s what will subsequently happen (whether it’s those calling for Flynn to start, or those who are crowning Wilson the new QB king of Seattle).

    I don’t care (from a football perspective) what anyone thinks. I don’t need to convince anyone of anything. It’s all just discussion among people with mutual interests. If I can provoke an interesting thought, a fact, or an idea that I previously hadn’t considered, then I am happy to post and to read the results. If what I point out something others appreciate, that’s great.

    The point is, it’s not like somebody wins and/or loses here on the blog. All the winning and losing takes place on the field.

  100. MEhawkfan says:

    Hah, I’ll bet listening on the radio was frustrating. I watched it on the television, and I was frustrated and upset… but not at Wilson. I was frustrated by the drops, Tate’s apparent lackadaisical attitude, and the front seven on D getting horribly Gored.

    Another apt point regarding the nature of writing on this blog. Fans are all helpless when it comes to affecting outcomes related to the sports teams they follow; this leads to a certain amount of frustration. Sports fans, in general, generate a great deal of emotional energy during a game, and there is really no satisfactory outlet for it. By that I mean there is no way for a fan to use that energy to promote the end they desire, which is a win for the team they follow. So they come to blogs like this and funnel that emotional energy into their posts. A loss magnifies this effect considerably.

  101. GeorgiaHawk says:

    MEhawkfan- Horribly Gored. Lol.

    And imagine how much better it is after a loss, for the Wives, Children, and Pets since we’ve had this Blog to vent on.

  102. MEhawkfan says:

    True, Georgia, although my dog did leave the room while the game was in progress…

  103. chuck_easton says:

    77

    Wilson is our future QB. And you are entitled to your opinion. But I know the kid is better than what he showed Thursday night.

    As I said in an earlier post the QB gets way too much credit for wins and he gets entirely too much blame for losses. That’s the nature of the position

    I just expect more and I know he has it in him to give more. I can’t be satisfied with Wilson’s performance and I’m happy that he isn’t either.
    If Wilson is going to make the step from an ok QB to a truly good QB he, the team and we fans can’t just be happy with what we saw out of him on Thursday.

    We can agree to disagree but even you have to accept and admit if Wilson puts together a few games in a row like he did Thursday there will be calls to make a change.

    That is why I say it was a bad game for him. The QB can’t allow himself to get into the mindset of its not his fault, it’s the receivers, lines, coaches, the weather, the sun was in his eyes, blah blah blah.

    I as a fan am not going to make excuses for him. His JOB as a starting QB is to overcome all those things and lead the team to victory. Until he can start doing that on a consistent basis week in and week out I’m still going to be critical of the flaws while acknowledging the improvements.

  104. Hawksince77 says:

    chuck,

    I was right with you up until:

    “We can agree to disagree but even you have to accept and admit if Wilson puts together a few games in a row like he did Thursday there will be calls to make a change.”

    I can’t argue with this statement because there have already been calls for change, and have been, non-stop, since the first game. But not from me, and given that I believe Wilson played well on Thursday, if he continued to play well, I would expect that he continue to start, no matter who calls for what.

    If the Seahawks lose, it’s perfectly reasonable to ask why: was the other team just better? Did the QB play poorly (because he is the single most important variable in any given game)? and yadda yadda yadda.

    PC blames his defense, primarily (and that’s gotta hurt) because they couldn’t stop the niners rushing attack. I think that’s harsh: the defense held a good offense to 13 points. Very impressive.

    Could they have done better? Sure. Brandon could have remained in the endzone on that pick. The d-line could have held their gaps better. But regardless, I have trouble placing the primary blame on the defense. They played a great game against a very good offensive line and rushing attack. Kudos to them.

    The second thing he mentioned was the dropped passes. That makes more sense to me. Three of those were killers, and routine catches that would have changed the game for the better.

    The point is, you focus on fixing those things that are broken, and to do that, you need to properly analyze the circumstances. When you do that, you discover that the play of the QB did not contribute to the loss.

    Look, I don’t have a sentimental NFL bone in my body. I was calling for Hass to go long before he did. If Wilson started to play like crap, I’d be the first to say so, and to say why. If he pulled a Cam Newton his second year, I’d be the first to call him out. I think QB play is the single most important ingredient for success in the NFL (I can’t count ‘defense’ or the ‘run game’ as just one thing, that is, equivlent to one position [the QB] because those entail entire units). Poor QB play will sink a good time like the niners. It will elevate mediocre teams like the Packers and Patriots. Combine excellent defense, a solid running game, and decent playmakers with a competent QB, and you can go the distance, and that is what PC is assembling.

    When I look at QBs, I consider the following three things as paramount:

    1 – decision making
    2 – accuracy
    3 – consistency

    Arm strength and mobility are generally over-rated. Without the first 3, they aren’t worth much. With the first 3, then enhance play-making ability, and that’s what we see with Wilson.

    Concerning the third, consistency, that’s what made Hasselbeck so dangerous in his best years. In Holmgren’s system, he consistenty called the right play, and threw accurately to the right receiver.

    Look at Jake Locker. He is streaky good. Not consistent. Or Cam Newton. Somebody like Michael Vick (an entire inch and and 3/8ths taller than Wilson) is streaky great. But not consistent.

    Brady is the fucking master. Consistenty good, streaky great. I think the best QB of this generation. Rodgers has lost some of his consistency this year (he is missing throws) and it has shown up in a bad way.

    That’s what impresses me the most about Wilson: he has been consistent, and has been getting better all year. When I charted his first game against the Cards, he had 4 poor plays and 3 terrible ones. Thursday he had maybe 3 poor plays (the interception, the reception thrown behind the receiver, and the over-throw) and zero terrible ones.

    I don’t no where this came from:

    “The QB can’t allow himself to get into the mindset of its not his fault, it’s the receivers, lines, coaches, the weather, the sun was in his eyes, blah blah blah.”

    Perhaps you know something I don’t. Where did you get the impression that Wilson has adopted such a mindset? I would be very interested to see the source, if there is one.

    Further, “I as a fan am not going to make excuses for him.”

    I’m not either. No excuses, simply informed observation and analysis.

    And: His JOB as a starting QB is to overcome all those things and lead the team to victory.”

    Not true. It’s PC’s JOB “to overcome all those things” as he is the only one with the access and authority to address all the variables that lead to winning or losing.

    Finally: “Until he can start doing that [all those things and lead the team to victory] on a consistent basis week in and week out I’m still going to be critical of the flaws while acknowledging the improvements.”

    So if I read this line correctly, you are stating that unless the Seahawks win week in and week out, you will hold Russell Wilson entirely responsible for not playing flawless football. Really? Or should I be interpreting this in some other way?

  105. Good arguments 77 – – I’m with you – those who are getting hung up on Wilson’s height without any facts or examples of where it is hurting him are just not wanting to do any thinking beyond an initial impression.

    I don’t have any sentiment toward Wilson either – I just want the hawks to have a top-line QB and win games – Wilson isn’t at that level yet, but he’s shown me enough to understand why PC/JS are backing this horse.

    RW made mistakes, and he’s not in the same realm as the top-6 guys, but his numbers in the 1st half were impacted by the drops, and our entire passing game in the 2nd half was disrupted by the Niners play on defense.

    Let’s see how it goes against Detroit . . .

  106. chuck_easton says:

    77,

    You did misinterpret that. No team can win week in and week out.

    I just want Wilson to get to the point that he is so consistent that the win and the comeback are expected and not a pleasant surprise. Thursdays performance was not that.

    If Thursday is the best Wilson can fifer it’s not good enough. Sorry, that’s my opinion.

  107. Hawksince77 says:

    “If Thursday is the best Wilson can fifer it’s not good enough. Sorry, that’s my opinion.”

    Chuck, I can respect that. But I will respond to:

    “I just want Wilson to get to the point that he is so consistent that the win and the comeback are expected and not a pleasant surprise. Thursdays performance was not that.”

    There is not a QB in NFL history who orchestrates game-winning drives every time the opportunity arises, even the elite ones, and by our mutual agreement, Wilson is not elite.

    He has done so twice this year (an NFL record) and was a dropped pass away from a third time against the Cards. Even if you don’t want to count the game-winning TD against GB, recall that that was the second last minute drive Wilson conducted that game. The 4th down play on the previous drive was a pass to Rice in the endzone that Tate went up and knocked down. Not only that, but Wilson was leading a potentially game-winning drive in the Rams game only to see his receiver fall down and the ball intercepted.

    I am just not sure how much more last-minute heroics you can expect from the guy. Your standards for success seem awfully high, for any NFL QB.

    But respectfully, that’s just my opinion.

  108. Hawksince77 says:

    As a perfect example (just to extend the argument) Tom Brady had a minute and 14 seconds to get into field goal range to beat the Seahawks. One of the best QBs in NFL history couldn’t even get one first down.

    But that’s not that uncommon. Those last minute drives are really tough.

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