Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Failures on offense? Blame everyone

Post by Eric Williams on Oct. 4, 2012 at 8:04 am with 59 Comments »
October 4, 2012 8:04 am
Seattle Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson (3) avoids the pressure during an NFL football game against the St. Louis Rams, Sunday, Sept. 30, 2012 in St. Louis.(AP Photo/Tom Gannam)

In my story today, while quarterback Russell Wilson has shouldered most of the blame for Seattle currently sitting at last of the league in passing offense, the receivers, pass blockers and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell also have to shoulder some of the responsibility.

Seattle’s execution on third down has been the key issue. On third-down plays, when experienced quarterbacks usually thrive, Wilson is a league-worst 11 of 27 (40.7 percent) for 77 yards, one touchdown and one interception – giving him a 45.4 passer rating on third downs.

“The biggest area we’re struggling is third down,” Bevell said. “That’s not a secret. The good thing is we only had nine of them (Sunday at St. Louis). The bad thing was, we only converted two of them. And there were seven of them, I think, that were … 4 yards (or less). So we’ve got to do a better job there.”

710 ESPN Seattle’s Brock Huard breaks down Marshawn Lynch’s 18-yard touchdown run in this video link.

Danny O’Neil of the Seattle Times writes about the similar issues that Cam Newton faced as a rookie that Russell Wilson is now going through this year.

Rivers McGown of Football Outsiders has a nice breakdown on Russell Wilson’s struggles in locking onto a primary target and missing open receivers.

Doug Farrar of Yahoo Sports talks to Warren Moon about how he’s helping Wilson get through the adversity he’s dealing with as a rookie.

John Boyle of the Everett Herald writes that Seattle rookie linebacker Bobby Wagner is flying under the radar, but playing well in his first season.

Clare Farnsworth of also focuses on Wagner in his practice report for Wednesday.

Roy Green Jr. of the Charlotte Observer writes that Russell Wilson is headed home to where he played his first three years of college at N.C. State, and expects up to 50 family and friends at the game in Carolina on Sunday.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 59
  1. Dukeshire says:

    Blame everyone? They rank 6th in the league in rushing with the leagues leading rusher. No, we can very easily focus the “blame”, or at worst deflect it away from those who are not at issue.

  2. I havent made up my mind regarding playing Wilson or putting Flynn in. However, I remember full well how unprepared Hasselbeck was to be the starter, yet stubborn arrogant Holmgren stuck with him despite the fact that Dilfer had rapport with our WR’s, and was playing his best football; dude was on fire, and we should have played him and sat Hass. Holmgren even admitted years later he made the wrong decision due to his own bloated ego, and that he screwed Dilfer and the team.

    And it did Hass a lot of damage to be out there sucking and have Dilfer, his teammates, and fans so pissed that he couldnt hack it but was teachers pet. Even Hass says he should have been sat for another year at least.

    Does that mean Wilson should be benched? Not necessarily, for several reasons. One, Hass problem was he forced balls and took chances–Wilson seems to opposite; he’s being coached to be overly cautious, he’s avoiding turnovers at all costs, and he wont force anything. He is just as bad as Hass was, but for different reasons.

    Two, we have Lynch and Hass didnt; that makes Wilsons life easier and should be helping him complete passes–if the staff would wake up.

    Which leads us to three; The offensive coaching staff–Carrol, Cable, and Bevell–are running a High School offense that simply wont work. I firmly believe even Tom Brady would be hard pressed to put 17 points a game on the board running that piece of crap offense.

    And fourth, there are too many mistakes by too many people (esp on third down) for anything good to happen on offens. It isnt Wilsons fault when Okung cant block his man, or false starts; its not his fault when Sweezy blocks the wrong dude or cant sustain his block: its not WIlsons fault when Baldwin bobbles a pass right into the corners arms; its not Wilsons fault when a TE falls flat on his face with the ball allready in the air; its not Wilsons fault when Giac cant block/blocks wrong dude/gets a roughing/holding/false start penalty. And its the sloppy execution and stupid penalties of his teammates holding him back just as much as his own mistakes (locking onto WR’s, not seeing open guys over the middle, floating passes high, etc), if not moreso.

    If the coaching staff wont open up the playbook and stop making cutesy calls like the stupid empty backfield crap, the Lynch as lead blocker qb sneak etc, then Wilson is doomed to failure no matter how good he is. If they put Flynn in and do the same thing, the same thing will happen.

    I still have zero faith in the line’s ability to protect the qb on a consistent enough basis for a guy like Flynn to survive, let alone thrive.

    Wilson is ready to play better. They have to let him throw the ball more often, esp on first and second down. They need to utilize play-action, and end the empty backfield stupidity. Otherwise we might as well see what Flynn has–because they arent giving Wilson a chance to do or learn anything except how to punt.

  3. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I agree with you Eric about spreading the blame around with regards to the passing game.
    Unfortunately some ( usually ) insightful bloggers here don’t want to see it.

  4. Didn’t realize Flynn was a statue, he has pocket awarness and can read a deffense enough to get the ball out quicker to the right guy, even if it is a check down. How open was the middle all last game? I’m guessing Flynn would be able to read that.

  5. I blame Wilson and the play calling, but that’s about it.

  6. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Eric was very clear about who should be sharing the blame with Wilson.

    “the receivers, pass blockers and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell also have to shoulder some of the responsibility”

    Where does any logical thinking person get (blame everyone) out of this? Lol.

  7. A lot of interesting points in the Farrar article about Warren Moon and Wilson. Does seem that PC’s aversion to turnovers, and how much he preaches it to RW, is pretty constraining.

    Really hoping for a solid game from Wilson on Sunday, any level of drumbeat for a QB switch is just bad for the team, whatever people’s personal preferences are re the two players.

  8. Dukeshire says:

    GeorgiaHawk – The headline… lol.

  9. GeorgiaHawk says:

    STTBM- Totally agree with you.

    Our pass blocking is terrible, just like it was last year when we were the second worst in the NFL. I said it at the time that probably the main reason Manning wouldn’t have anything to do with us was because of our crappy pass blocking.

    Some here countered that with ” It was Jacksons fault for holding onto the ball too long” Or even more ridiculous “Our O-line is our second best group position”. Lol.

  10. HawkyHann says:

    Blame Bevell for horrible play calling, especially on third down. No more options, cool?

  11. Southendzone says:

    Agree with the point above about empty backfield. I don’t like that set right now for the Hawks, for one with our run game, I’d like to see play action REALLY often, empty set takes that away.

    I’ve seen Lynch do a decent job in pass-pro help and Turbin has looked great on these situations where he leaks out for those short range passes, all the way since pre-season he seems to have a knack for this part of the game.

    Put someone back there with Wilson and it will benefit the offense.

  12. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Dukeshire- True, the headline is Misleading. Lol.

    BTW- I am pretty sure who this Dickshire dude is. Do you want to know?

  13. Dickshire what’s your story? u r definitely a crack pot like myself.but you have some very great have obviously studied ( played the game). Sttbm in my opinion u r exactly right on !Interesting. I’m going back into my cave!STTBM u know we’ve had our differences before but always enjoy reading your info! Thank you

  14. Dukeshire says:

    I really think the pass pro is being unfairly run down, by some. In today’s NFL, with the speed of defenses, it’s nearly impossible to have clean pockets with a QB taking deep (7 step) drops on a consistent basis. And that’s what they are having Wilson do. 3 and 5 step drops would make this line look significantly better, but that’s not a strength of Wilson’s. Deep drops and roll outs put tremendous strain on o lines. And that’s a primarily what we’re seeing now.

  15. Dukeshire says:

    Georgia – Who is he?

  16. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Clue #1- Someone that used to use caps alot until someone got on his case.

  17. FleaFlicker says:

    Don’t know if anybody listened to that Warren Moon interview on the Brock/Salk show, but a few pretty good points about the development cycle of the QB:

    1. QB is getting no throws in this system. Wilson had nine throws entire first half against Green Bay. Other QBs (even rookies) are getting 40+ per game. RW is getting 20 to 25.

    2. Consider the training camp reduction in snaps for RW, based on the “competition”. Just adds to the live action deficit when compared to his peers.

    3. Even a very experienced QB needs consecutive pass plays to establish a rhythm. Run/Run/Run/Run/Pass doesn’t work in that regard.

    Not saying that RW is the answer. Just saying that it takes time, patience, and willingness to endure some bad games before you can know for sure.

  18. PugetHawk says:

    When I was watching the Redskins game I heard the analyst say that Shannahan took a bunch of plays from the Baylor playbook and inserted them into this years offense for RG3. That is setting him up to play comfortably and simplify the offense. They also let him play naturally and more carefree instead of putting the shackles on him like the Hawks have with Wilson.
    The Redskins are no where near a playoff team this year but if we were getting half the production they are from the passing game we would probably be undefeated.
    The penalties also kill a rookie QB. They have been going on too long. Carroll should focus on that more and the constraints of a proven winner like Wilson less…in my opinion.

  19. FleaFlicker says:

    That Football Outsiders article is painful. But the pictures don’t lie.

    RW definitely needs to raise his game when it comes to the pre-snap read.

  20. psoundpowerhouse says:

    Whats this weeks offensive line “rotation”?

  21. thursday says:

    completely agree with all your points STTBM

  22. ChrisHolmes says:

    The Football Outsiders article is awesome. I’ve been waiting to see something like that because it affirms what I’ve been suspecting, which is that our guys ARE getting open, but Wilson isn’t seeing them and making the right reads/throws.

    People harp on the 5 receiver set because they haven’t seen results from it, but it’s a great set. And this just proves it. Guys are open. Way open.

    Wilson has to do better. I get the feeling that Flynn is dying to make those throws from that 5-receiver set. He’s a smart QB with experience and he knows there are guys open.

    I also understand Duke’s criticism of the 3-,5-, and 7-step drop situation, but when you look at those pictures (and I am sure there are many more examples on game film), it’s clear that the passing lanes are there for Wilson, and the receivers are open. Those plays are on Wilson.

    Here’s what I’m seeing: He’s a rookie QB making rookie mistakes, i.e. he’s not making good pre-snap reads, and he’s locking onto his first option. Lots of rookies go through that. These are the growing pains.

    I can only hope that PC, Bevell and Wilson are really working to improve this. If Wilson is the hard-working kid they all say he is, we should see improvements. So far, I haven’t seen any.

  23. yakimahawk says:

    I would imagine if we are down at half-time and our offensive pass game has been the same bad one as it has been. Expect to see Flynn inserted in the 3rd quarter. They are not going to give RW the whole game with NE coming to town the following week.

  24. PugetHawk says:

    The Football Outsiders article is a lot of good info. I didn’t realize that it’s possible for the Hawks coaching staff to limit which side of the field Wilson can throw to. That makes no sense if it is.

    Let the kid sink or swim on his own. He’s not used to being micro-managed so much.

  25. Dukeshire says:

    ChrisHolmes – To clarify, I too believe ultimately it’s on Wilson. But there are some limitation to what Bevell can call given Wilson’s physical limitations, at least until he gains more command of the O.

  26. mojjonation says:

    Or another 6 inches of height.

  27. Chawksrule says:

    I don’t think Flynn would work that hard to improve our offense. I have always wondered why Flynn couldn’t find a job anywhere else in the NFL? His ex-coach From Green Bay, Joe Philbin, didn’t even fight to go after him. Remember people, they too chose to draft and start an unproven rookie rather than give Flynn a chance. I would think the best judge of Flynns ability would be his coaches. Philbin didn’t want him and Flynn couldn’t win the starting QB position from Jamarcus Russell at LSU? And, now when he was given a chance to compete with an unknown like RW he couldn’t push himself harder to make sure he won the job? He got $10 million guaranteed to compete for the starting job for crying outloud. What does this all this say about his leadership and competitiveness?

    Let RW be RW. He is a rookie and will make mistakes. But he is determined to get better and has a history showing he will get better. Let the learning curve continue. We are building a Championship caliber team in the last 2+ years. Stay the course.

    Go Hawks!!!

  28. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’ve been pretty thorough in blaming everyone in the passing game. Everyone is not to blame though. For one, Lynch/Turbin have been doing more than their fair share of making the defense respect the run, forcing LBs and safeties to come up. Another is a defense that’s keeping games close, so they aren’t forced to go one dimensional to catch up. By all measures, the other aspects are giving the passing game everything they could possibly ask for.

    The FO article is plenty proof enough the RW hasn’t caught up to the speed of the game. It is pretty brutal, especially the inability to make the hot reads. Yes, receivers are getting open, but he’s not seeing them. He’s too slow to make his progressions after the snap, something that’s a killer in the WCO. The pass protection shouldn’t even be a factor on the short passing plays. He should be able to read the defense and get the ball out of his hands to the correct receiver in 2 seconds. Explosive pass plays? Please, walk before you can run.

    The Bevell/Cable/PC playcalling was especially bad last Sunday. Pitch to Lynch in I formation on 3rd and 2? Empty backfield on 3rd and short? I thought this was a power running team. Act like it. Scheme is another problem here. The WCO is based primarily quick throws I mention above. Height is a problem as Duke mentions because you’re making the throws in tight quarters with taller linemen around you. This doesn’t put Wilson in a position to succeed. I’ve mentioned before that tossing out the WCO and going Erhardt-Perkins is probably the best way to go. Calling it smashmouth football is oversimplifying it. There’s probably a good balance between Singletary with the 49ers and Belichick with the Pats that would work in Seattle. It’s not a bad thing to have the training wheels on a rookie, but they are currently limiting him into a box where he can’t use his natural strengths to succeed.

  29. ChrisHolmes says:

    But Duke, do you really think Wilson’s “physical limitations” are at issue here?

    Let’s discuss:

    I am thinking it’s Wilson’s rookie and mental limitations that has put the handcuffs on Bevell’s ability to call plays, not anything physical (I assume you’re really just referring to Wilson’s height here, because arm-strength-wise and accuracy-wise, Wilson is fine, IMO).

    What I’m seeing in the games and in post-op photos is that guys are open and Wilson is not seeing them, not because he’s short, but because mentally he’s not made the correct pre-snap read and he’s locking onto his primary receiver. I think if Wilson can correct the mental stuff – make better pre-snap reads and find the open man – he’s more than capable of delivering the ball despite any height issues. The passing lanes are there as well. Wilson just isn’t playing very well mentally.

    Without being in the coaches film room and having the ability to dissect every play, my own personal guess is that Wilson’s height is factoring into far fewer plays than his rookie mental mistakes. I think his pre-snap reads and lock-on mentality are costing the offense at a far higher proportion of plays than his height, is what I’m saying.

    I still have hard time buying, I guess, that Wilson’s height is THAT MUCH of an issue. Brees clearly has been one of the best QB’s over the past several years, and we’re talking about one inch. I think Wilson’s grasp of the offense and his ability to process defenses – right now – is a far greater hindrance to the success of the offense.

    I understand the roll-outs and 7-step drops play to Wilson’s strengths. But I think that’s wrong wording. Another way to say that is, they play to his mental capability to run the offense RIGHT NOW (I happen think the kid is bright enough to grow and get better at this, but that’s just gut and guessing).

    Because on a 7-step play-action drop, or a roll-out, his reads are way simpler; the field is cut in half, or his receiving options are limited to a one or two receivers and a check-down, etc. Those sorts of plays don’t necessarily play to Wilson’s “strengths” as much as they simplify the game for him, allowing him to mentally focus on only one or two things each play. Instead of having to read a defense and look at potentially 5 options on an empty backfield set, he’s running a roll-out and looking at one receiver and two drag routs, or running it out of bounds or throwing away and being PC “safe” with the ball. That isn’t utilizing Wilson’s arm strength or accuracy, but it is playing to his mental level right now.

    I want to see if Wilson can improve mentally this week. I don’t want Bevell to stop calling empty sets or four receiver verts and asking Wilson to read a defense properly. I want to see Wilson study and step up.

    I think if Wilson improves his mental part of the game, the height factor is going to become a non-issue. The receivers are open, the lanes are there and he can make the throws. But he’s got to see it pre-snap first, manipulate the defense with his eyes on drop-back, and get beyond his first option.

  30. Speed of the game seems to still be a little too fast for Wilson at this point.

    Working in his favor is that even with a QB playing poorly each of the past 2 years, Carroll did not make a midseason QB change.

  31. Dukeshire says:

    ChrisHolmes – I agree with nearly all of that. *In addition* to what you have said, especially regarding the limitations on playcalling, is his height. He simply cannot deliver the ball over his O line in a 3 step, and needs ideal throwing lanes to do so at 5. That is a physical limitation, as I see it, and reduces a significant part of any WCO coordinator’s playbook. The Saints spread teams out and play Brees out of shotgun far more than Seattle’s O. That helps. It’s not apples to apples, necessarily.

    Generally we are in agreement. Although what I see in Wilson’s play has as much to do with his physical limitations as it does transitioning to the NFL.

  32. FleaFlicker says:

    Not to bang the drum too much on that Warren Moon interview. BUT…

    Brock asked Moon if he’d talked to RW personally about things. Paraphased: “Yes, absolutely. He came and found me on the plane and we sat down and he asked me for my opinion on his play. One of the things I told him was that he’s jumping out of the pocket too quick and that he’s got to step up and in on the pressure to open the whole field.”

    So if RW can listen to Warren (and to Duke who has made a very similiar critique) and make the adjustment, this might be a very different Sunday coming up. I can only hope.

  33. Calling those sets on 1st down occasionally would be nice Chris, but lately the timing on those have been a little off. I think if we’re going to stick with Wilson, their going to have to taylor the offense around his height and start doing more shotgun plays, as Duke pointed out Nola does. Otherwise put Flynn in if they’re going to keep it the same, like it’s been noted, Wilson has not caught up to the speed of things and probably needs more time to understand what he sees instead of trying to learn as he goes at the speed of playing at this level.

  34. tacomahawk73 says:

    I’ve been sitting back quietly reading over these posts, and I’ve gotta say, aside from DICKSHIRE being a bit zany and Chris’ bizarre twist on his username (Yoda?!?), the guy makes some solid points. Did people really think there’d be NO learning curve to RW coming in to the NFL? This next game will be revealing, but I believe replacing him this early on would be rather hasty.

  35. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    But he CAN’T make the adjustment and step up into the pocket more because HE’S TOO SHORT. He HAS to escape the pocket on almost every snap just to find passing lanes.

  36. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Replacing Wilson is not hasty at all, in fact it’s long overdue. Who CARES if he’s a rookie facing rookie learning curves. WE DON’T HAVE TO START A ROOKIE! We have Matt Flynn, a quality veteran option, sitting on the bench while this munchkin strangles our passing offense. Our defense is BETTER than it was during the Super Bowl season, and our rushing game is NEARLY as potent, and yet we’re still going to have a losing season because Pete Carroll is too arrogant to admit he made an incredibly foolish decision to start an overmatched 5’10” noob at QB.

  37. RDPoulsbo says:

    The problem with shotgun is it handcuffs the running game and that’s the worst thing that can happen with this offense right now.

  38. You are right ACIB. This team sucks. Pete sucks, John sucks. RW is terrible and will never be good. HE is way too short and way too dumb. He has never proved anything in his lifetime. After 4 NFL games he has proved that he is the most worthless QB ever and will never grow into even an average QB. I mean, its been proven over and over by many rookie QB’s that were bad, that they will forever suck. That guy peyton manning sure sucked/sucks and will never be close to a good QB. Man, we might as well just burn our season tickets, stop watching this team on the road and never support them ever again. Gosh what was paul allen thinking when he bought this team. He might as well have let them move out of this city. God, ACIb you are a genius, why have none of us ever thought like you before. ACIB for president!

    (sarcasm if you couldn’t tell)

    You sound stupid ACIB, shut it

  39. Dukeshire says:

    Not advocating shotgun.

  40. RDPoulsbo says:

    Well this comparison to Brees really is apples to oranges. It’s just not an option in Seattle. Play action and rollouts in addition to 7 step drops are the primary options you can go with until Wilson is more comfortable with the short passing game.

    Right now, it looks like they either have the wrong QB for the scheme or wrong scheme for the QB. One of these has to be scrapped.

  41. NWPoseidon says:

    I believe it was Warren Moon that made the point on open receivers that he has noticed that many of the times that the receiver is not open until after Wilson has made the read ad determined that he was not open and that even Tom Brady and Manning rarely return to reads they have already determined to be marked whether they get open at a later time or not.

    Also that making rollouts in the Redzone can create openings better than dropping. Have we really done this with Wilson’s speed in the Redzone?

  42. DICKSHIRE says:

    Calling Flynn a quality veteran is like calling me a polite sugar coating candy ass! Not the deal!granted Flynn might be great I have no idea. I like him as a player and if he has a chance I think he has a chance to be successful but he has Started 2 or 4 games in his career ( can’t remember) if that is what u call a quality veteran then I’m sure glad your not runin my team.Russellwilsonbust you have my vote for pres why not u would fit right in there with MIT!

  43. FleaFlicker says:

    Good point, NWP.

    For all the folks that proclaiming “too short!”…maybe you’re right. But maybe that’s what they call “confirmation bias” in psychology.

    We’re fitting disappointing QB play into our pre-conceived notion that RW’s height is the defining limitation. Consider:

    –He’s a rookie
    –With less than half a true off-season
    –With exactly 100 pass attempts in his career
    –Playing with a conservative offense
    –In a constrained scheme

    Got to let RW play through it before we chalk this up to a bad experiment. In the end, maybe it is his height. But I’m not convinced. Yet.

  44. vancityhawk says:

    People should remember too that more than physical skill went into the decision to start Wilson. Theres leadership, coachability and willingness to learn and get better. I’m not saying Flynn doesnt have these but maybe Wilson is better from that aspect and in turn would have a better upside. In regards to putting Flynn in now, maybe the coaching staff is afraid that showing their lack of confidence will hurt Wilson’s strongest quality…his mental strength

  45. RDPoulsbo–Except Bevell wanted Wilson badly. He’s the guy he wanted to run his offense. Then again, this is the same dude that couldnt win ecept one year with Favre, despite having Peterson, and this is the same dude that wanted T-Jack….

    Im quite sure being short is bothering Wilson some, but Im not covinced he cant do 3-step drops, or that his height is such a problem. I think its more his hesitating to push the ball in tight windows, his not b3eing used to making decisions at NFL speed, etc–in other words, its a bunch of things, but mostly inexperience and bad gameplanning/playcalling by his coaches.

    His line AVERAGED 6′-7″ tall at Wisconsin; we are far shorter than that.

    TruBlu–Flynn is pretty slow. Did you not see him get run down from behind multiple times in preseason by 300 lbers?! I know I did. IF we had a line that could pass block even adeqately, I would be stoked to have Flynn back there. As it stands, Im not sure he’d average out to be a significant long-term uprgrade over Wilson. If the coaches believe playing Wilson is good for him, and helping him to improve better than being on the bench, and he ends up being a good player, then Im okay with the way the season is going.

    What we all fear is that its not helping Wilson and/or he will regress. That would suck. But Im not convinced Flynn would be so great. He has a pathetic arm, judging by his throws in preseason, and his tendinitis elbow is simply sad. And he cant run away from anyone.

    Im still glad he’s available if Wilson implodes, but I cant say I think he’d be tons better than Wilson right now, so Im just watching this play out.

    Im not sure I can stand to watch another week with the same old offense though–Im getting too upset (I keep having flashbacks to Mora/Knapp Red ZOne plays and Flores 1992…ugh!). I may just have to take my boy to the park or to a movie and watch highlights/lowlights…

    And thats sad, becuase Lynch is awesome, and our D is magnificent much of the time (when they arent imploding on third and long).

    And thanks to everyone who appreciated my comments–nice to not be called a troll for a change when I criticize mediocrity or dont hold with the common viewpoints.

  46. Chawksrule says:

    Why is comparing RW to Brees apples & oranges? We should compare Wilson to Drew Brees since they are so similar in stature. Brees is working out pretty good in the NFL. BTW Drew Brees stats his first full year he started he had 17 TDs and 16 Ints with a Passer rating of only 76.9…..I believe this is the pace at which Russell Wilson is currently on as a rookie QB….Brees accomplished those stats after sitting on the bench for a year. Looks like his learning curve took longer than Wilson’s …. I wonder how many fans were calling for him to be benched at the time?

    Go Hawks!!!

  47. RDPoulsbo says:

    Brees is in an offense that’s mostly Spread/Coryell, which couldn’t be any more different from WCO. Brees plays in lots of shotgun with a RB in Sproles (Bush before) that’s more of a weapon in the passing game than the running game. Compare that to the Hawks where almost all of the snaps are taken under center with RBs who run the ball a whole lot more (which means you take away weapons in shotgun). There is no way to compare the 2 schemes in terms of stats because they’re trying to accomplish completely different things to get the ball downfield.

  48. I keep hearing this “Flynn sucks, even Miami didn’t want him”. Yet Philbin says in an interview quoted by ProFootballTalk after Miami lost MF to Seattle: “I think we made an aggressive push”.

    How many teams who passed on MF in FA has as much bearing on MF’s potential as how many teams who passed on RW in the draft has on RW’s.

    Ultimately, the only thing that matters is W’s in games that count. With the way the NFC and NFCW are playing, the Hawks need to get this thing figured out soon or they risk squandering a D and running game the likes of which we haven’t seen in a long time. This would be a lot less urgent in my mind were we back in year 1 of the rebuild when the pieces were still a ways from coming together.

  49. RDPoulsbo says:

    STTBM: I’d guess the slow reads and speed of the game are bothering him far more than the height right now. 3 step drops mean throwing through tight windows and the height issue only makes those windows tighter. Sure, he can do it in college, but the speed of the game and quality of the CBs is very different in the NFL. He may be able to overcome the tight window issues when he can play up to the speed of the NFL, but for now the team is better served moving him or moving the pocket.

    I’m not sure it was Bevell as much as PC who wanted Wilson. I’m pretty sure Bevell would have been just as happy with his buddy T-Jack behind center just so he could say he was right after all. In any case, OC might need to be addressed in the next offseason. If PC wants to be that defensive guy, then he better get an OC that’s better than a journeyman who can be outruled by an o-line coach.

  50. PugetHawk says:

    If you take away penalties and poor special teams play (against the Rams with the fake TD, and Campbell’s blocked field goal in the 1st quarter vs the Cards) then the Hawks are undefeated and people are still in love with Wilson like they were after the Chiefs pre-season game.

    I’m sure ACiB would still hate him but other than that, I think the majority of the conversations would be far more positive.

    Pete take the leash off Wilson and concentrate on your discipline to cut out the penalties.

  51. Skavage says:

    As always, the fan base is either oo high (after a win) or too low (after a loss).

    Wilson’s going to be fine. The o-line will be fine. The receiver’s as a whole…maybe not so fine. Nut not matter what, it’s time to take the training wheels off and let RW play. Good bad or indifferent, he can’t be judged until his trying to ride on two wheels.

  52. Chawksrule says:

    Good point Poulsbo…..

    Except Drew Brees didn’t play in that offense his first 5 years in the league. He played in a more conventional pro style offense in San Diego. And, in his first year as a starter when he only compiled that 76.9 passer rating he had a pretty good running back by the name of LaDanian Thomlinson who had over 1600 yards rushing. Sounds nearly identical to the stats Wilson and Lynch are on pace for this year doesn’t it? Keep on the path we are on. It will be bumpy but Championships will be ahead.

    Go Hawks!!!

  53. twillis says:

    And to follow on to RD, the implication is that RW needs to get up the learning curve and find a way to be successful in the scheme the Hawks run today. I imagine the staff can tweak things to help him out (and they absolutely need to do that), but I doubt they are going to rip up the scheme and install a different system tailored to RW in-season. I am not even sure they even have the right coaches and players on the roster today to effectively run a Coryell system like NO’s?

    This is where it gets ugly in my mind. If RW can’t effectively run the scheme, it doesn’t matter how much higher his potential ceiling is than MF or other options. The Hawks are left with the choice of living with the ineffectiveness and hoping things improve, going with someone else who can be effective, or taking a season or two hit to re-tool the O to a scheme that RW can be effective in.

  54. Flores 1992—there’s a blast from the past! That was a nightmare

  55. STTBM— you are all over it! Nice! Great points! Thank you

  56. RDPoulsbo says:

    Chawksrule: San Diego is the home of the Coryell offense. That’s what he brought to New Orleans where Payton decided to adopt it into his offense. Both SD, and NO (and Dallas for that matter) are constantly trying to attack down field to move the LBs and safeties back, opening up the LoS for big runs. The WCO, it’s the exact opposite philosophy. Pull the safeties and LBs up to the LoS so you can burn them over the top.

  57. Chawksrule says:

    Poulsbo, Air Coryell was born in San Diego…and last played there in the 80s. Sean Peyton was with the NY giants when Brees was With the Chargers. His coach when he was named the starter was Marty Schottenheimer. There was no connection whatsoever with the offense you are tying him to.

    So, since Drew Brees is succesful in that system your point is that RW would be better suited for the Coryell/Sean Payton offense? We only run a hybrid of the WCO using play action passes to draw the LBs up to go deep over the safeties. Did you see the TD pass to Tate in the Cowboys game?

    But you miss the point. Russell Wilson is a rookie that will become better if we allow him to be himself and give him time to develop. Bevell, Carroll, and Scneider targeted this kid to run this system. You have to have a little faith.

    Go Hawks!!!

  58. Dukeshire says:

    Sean Payton has always run or been associated with a vertical passing offense. Whether it’s working under Parcells in Dallas. Jim Fassel in NY. Or now on his own. The concepts he is most familiar with can be directly tied to Coryell offensive schemes (which is an extension on Sid Gillman’s offense). RD’s point is valid.

  59. Blame everyone? Marshawn Lynch should rush for 200yds? Blame the same playcaller, same WRs, and OLs that made Wilson looked good in the preseason?

    Maybe the reason why they’re struggling on 3rd downs is because they’re starting a rookie quarterback and the opponent is no longer playing vanilla defense?

    Maybe the defense should be blamed for not shutting out opponents or Leon Washington for not returning punts and kickoffs for touchdowns?

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