Seahawks Insider

Morning links: In defense of Russell Wilson

Post by Eric Williams on Oct. 2, 2012 at 7:20 am with 109 Comments »
October 2, 2012 7:20 am
Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll, right, walks with quarterback Russell Wilson after the Seahawks defeated the Green Bay Packers 14-12 in an NFL football game, Monday, Sept. 24, 2012, in Seattle. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

Dave Boling of The News Tribune defends rookie quarterback Russell Wilson keeping his job in favor of Matt Flynn – at least for now –even though he’s last in the league in passing yards.

Boling: “Flynn looked efficient and cool under pressure in the preseason. But Wilson also has taken some big-time hits and remained upright and healthy. He has compensated in some cases by evading potential sacks.

So, giving Wilson another chance to start, this time on the road at Carolina, is debatable, but defensible.

And to be fair, the Seahawks should do this — let Wilson be himself. Cut him loose. Let him play the way he did in exhibition season. He’s thinking too much and that’s taking away from the instinctive play that might be his strength.

And if it doesn’t work out, you give it another close look the following week. That’s what you do if a competition really is open.

ESPN’s Mike Sando also argues for sticking with Russell Wilson.

Art Thiel of wades into the murky waters of Pete Carroll’s coach speak in an attempt to decode what the Seattle head coach actually said about Matt Flynn’s injury situation. Thiel: “At stake here is Carroll’s credibility, because a number of Seahawks’ followers have believed that Wilson was not ready to start and is getting the start primarily because Carroll had so much ardor for Wilson’s intangibles, makeup and against-all-odds story. Flynn, by dint of NFL service time and experience, is better suited to get wins now.
“The argument has merit, although I leaned 51-49 to start Wilson because defense, special teams and Marshawn Lynch were sufficient to carry him through his training-wheels period. And it’s still about that close. Despite the travail, the 2-2 Seahawks are a little closer to 4-0 than they are 1-3.”

KJR’s Hugh Millen critiques Wilson’s performance in this audio link.

Clare Farnsworth of writes about the Seattle’s struggles on third down.

Cole Schultz of Pro Football Focus breaks down Seattle’s success running the ball against the Rams, giving kudos to Marshawn Lynch, Robert Turbin Russell Wilson.

Danny O’Neil of the Seattle Times takes a closer look at what we learned from the Hawks-Packers game.

Pat Kirwan of CBS Sports writes that teams in the NFL still are scoring at a record pace. That’s interesting because Seattle is going against that trend with it’s ability to keep opposing team out of the end zone with its stingy defense.

Yahoo Sports drops Seattle from No. 11 to No. 16 in their NFL power rankings.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 109
  1. chrisj122 says:

    I hope everyone is as pleasant on this thread as the last. Lol….

  2. It’s good to see the ‘other’ side of keeping Wilson as our starting QB. I still believe in this guy. I mean, he’s a frickin’ rookie 4 games in.

    Going back to Carolina where he was a star could be inspiring not to mention playing against the reigning ROY in Newton.

    I’m stoked about Sunday and think we’ll bounce back big time after Carolina lost last second to Atlanta.

    IMO, they should pound the rock with Lynch AND Turbin and have designed rollouts for Wilson (even if it does shrink the field). That first drive against the Rams is more of what I’d like to see with us finishing the drive preferably pounding the ball.

    Can’t wait for all the boo hooers today.


  3. Hammajamma says:

    Perhaps we see this offense play a little angry this week.

  4. Ewalters7354 says:

    Ate Thiel Madras great point about why I believed Carroll chose Wilson to be the starter simply because he is infatuated with the Guy.Russ is definitely a likable Guy with good intangibles(even though I believe he tries too hard at times).So hearing Pete say Matt was not ready,Matt saying he is and also watching Flynn play the ENTIRE(I believe)Third quarter and look sharp and you say he can’t throw as much as he news too?Yea,sure.Growing real tired of this.

  5. Ewalters7354 says:

    needs *

  6. Dukeshire says:

    chrisj122 – I’ve been on this blog for the better part of 8 seasons now, and the acrimony that is on display here now, has me seriously considering if I want to be a part of this any longer. I’m embarrassed for the posters when I read more than half the posts. It’s ridiculous.

  7. Dukeshire says:

    Ewalters7354 – I too agree with Thiel regarding why Carroll likes Wilson so much. (I don’t agree about them being closer to 4-0 than 1-3, but no matter). Carroll had to know that with a WCO offensive coordinator the 3 and 5 step passing game is a staple. But with a QB as short as Wilson, he simply has to drop 7 in order for passing lanes to open up. This put incredible strain on the O-Line. A and B gap blitzes are wide open as a result, and tackles have to stick with speed rushers 10-12 yards. Very tall orders. So, it had to be intangibles that Carroll loved far more that physical tools.

  8. Hammajamma says:

    On the expectations front, at the beginning of the year I thought a 3-3 start against that schedule would have been acceptable. I then saw a 7-3 finish. Would folks here take 10-6 today? The season is far from going in the crapper just yet.

  9. The 3rd down failure on both sides of the ball is what really sticks out to me. As for QB Im ready to let the rookie have a little more time, but it would not hurt my feelings to take a look at what Flynn can do.

  10. Exactly, he’s a rookie, sit him a year and let him watch and learn from there. Every other team that is starting a rookie QB this year is not playoff ready, but Seattle is. This is not the year to learn as you go, I’m I the onlky one that sees this.

  11. Dukeshire says:

    Tru – That’s an important distinction, I believe. Seattle is ready to compete *in* the playoffs, not simply get there. Washington, Indy, Miami, Cleveland… they are not close. This was exactly why I am calling for a change now. Of course this team is building for the future, but in nearly every facet, the future is here. Considering that, Flynn is the more capable choice, IMO. There are so few opportunities to win in this league, Seattle has an obligation to take advantage of the one they seem to have now, and that would entail making a switch at QB.

  12. RDPoulsbo says:

    I think you’re right about the WCO issues Duke. I’ve been feeling all year, they have been trying to fit Erhardt-Perkins personnel into a WCO scheme and it’s just not working. I think Wilson and Lynch would both thrive if they just tossed aside the WCO and just fully embrace the “throw to score, run to win” philosophy. Especially with the 3 step timing routes, Wilson is just not getting the throwing lanes he needs. If they want to stick with Wilson, they’re going to need to feed the defense a heavy dose of play action and bootlegs to get the passing game to work.

  13. chrisj122 says:

    Not just you Trublue, several others including myself have said the same thing. However there are a few simple minded posters who only view things in black and white or very things in extreme views only.

    Simple minded poster perspective: “I love Wilson! If you don’t agree 100% than you hate Wilson, therefore I hate you!”

    Another good one: “I love Seahawks and I will follow them blindingly regardless, if anyone does not do the same they are NOT true fans!”

    This is the same crap politicians will say when they are questioned except their code word is “unpatriotic”.

    If I were to make my arguments very extreme I would say if you want to keep starting Wilson you are a loser of a fan who is happy being mediocre, therefore the Seahawks wills never win a Superbowl because of fans like you who are content supporting an average team.

  14. Dukeshire says:

    RDPoulsbo – I believe so. In addition, I think this is why we’re seeing so many high thrown on seem routes and not digs. Deep ins give him time to drop back and get the “clearance”, so-to-speak to deliver the ball accurately. But hitting a slot receiver or TE running the seem requires the ball to get out more quickly and he has to get it up and over the line. At least this is my feeling after re-watching his first 4 starts, the past two days.

  15. Dukeshire says:

    Or seam… lol

  16. pabuwal says:

    I’ve always thought that Sean Payton runs a “Short QB” version of the West Coast Offense and I don’t know if Carroll/Bevell are that flexible.

    I also think that in the hardcore Holmgren/Walsh WCO, Brees would look average to below average. Part of his tremendous success is due to the genius of Sean Payton in running an offense that maximizes his strengths while minimizing his height problem.

  17. ChrisHolmes says:

    He’s a rookie. For sure. And anyone with any memory at all knows how rookies suffer in the NFL. Sure, every once in a while a guy has a good rookie season, but for the most part they suffer.

    When Seattle started this experiment, Wilson’s height didn’t concern me. He’s an inch shorter than Brees – so what? But it was clear watching that game Sunday that he was missing open receivers just because he couldn’t see them at all. There were a couple times I saw him miss wide open guys over the middle because the Center and Guard were double-teaming a behemoth, and RW just didn’t see his guy. That was disappointing to watch.

    I don’t know what the answer is… But if PC wants to keep rolling the dice with Wilson, so be it. I’m on board. I am hoping that in a couple of years, Wilson has the pro game figured out the way Brees does and we’re all reminiscing about how much we overreacted to his rookie season.

  18. Where will Lynch and our D be in a couple of years though?

  19. Dukeshire says:

    Payton and the Saints run (ran…) a lot more zone concept than one would see in a traditional WCO. Their idea is to create confusion rather than the precision that a Walsh / Holmgren offense works so hard to establish. But I may be splitting hairs, because I think pabuwal’s general point is that Payton has been able to custom a vertical offense (another distinction between the two) to a shorter QB who is able to succeed with 3 and 5 step drops. AKA, timing routes.

  20. NWPoseidon says:

    This blog used to be enjoyable to read with thoughtful analysis and patience. Now it is just people firing shots all over the place. IMO everyone is now too concerned with “being right” rather than analyzing the situation.

    Wilson is a rookie, will he improve? IMO he should. Is Flynn the missing key without any changes to other personnel? IMO no, he would get sacked more, still deal with our receivers, but I do think he would be better for the next 3 games than Wilson will be. So why not pull Wilson now for Flynn? IMO it’s a knee jerk reaction without patience that would be irreversible unless Flynn set the world on fire. Once a QB change takes place during the season then you better be right because credibility, the locker room and jobs will be at stake. IMO it is much too early to judge that Flynn is the sole answer to the puzzle. If in 2 games or 4 games were at 3-3 or 4-4 and Wilson seems to have hit a plateau or regressed then it would be appropriate and smart to switch to Flynn, IMO.

    We are in a season where the patriots are 2-2, steelers are 1-2, the packers are 2-2, the saints are 0-4, the giants are 2-2 and all of them have some pretty good QBs. 4 games is not patience.

  21. Last two times Flynn did set the world on fire. If they are going to stick with Wilson, why don’t they change the play book to some more screens and tell the recievers to break right when a play breaks down and Wilson rolls right like 80% of the time so they at least have a chance. Or have the TE’s line up as recievers so they can block down field for when he rolls out.

  22. NWPoseidon says:

    Why haven’t we been seeing more 2 and 3 TE sets? Or have I just been spacing out during the games?

    Also why aren’t we putting Wilson in more shotgun sets like Brees? Just curious… Maybe I’m wrong

  23. If they thought Flynn gave them a better shot to win right now he would be playing. Russell Wilson is the best QB on our roster. No more 12-on-12 violence we can agree to disagree. I saw both of these guys all camp long & Wilson was the best, won the competition outright. Lets not forget Baldwin missed the entire preseason, Moore wasn’t even here, & we still don’t have a legit go-to receiver. Rice had 1 good year, w/ a HOF QB.

  24. Personally, I would like to see them try Edwards on the outside opposite Rice, I just don’t like Tate outside. I think they need to use him like Percy Harvin.

  25. pabuwal says:

    I am assuming another folly of the QB competition was that the “winning” QB would run the same offense as the other 2.

    These were 3 totally different QBs. The offense needed to be tailored to each QB’s strength and weakness. The offense they ran last year (which appears to be what they are running this year, but with a smaller playbook) was best suited to Jackson because they do like to take shots down the field, some of which require tremendous arm strength.

    If they were serious about Flynn or Wilson, they needed to be installed immediately as the starter, with an offense customized to their particular skill sets.

    Given the importance of the passing game in todays NFL (is it all that matters?), wasting precious time in training camp without getting the starter ready to play the season nearly torpedoes the first 4-8 games of the season, which isn’t much different than last year.

  26. yakimahawk says:

    I would like to see Eric send out a question to all of us bloggers who actually steped foot on the gridiron. There are so many comments on here which completely baffle me about football, that is laughable.Let me say that I persoanlly would have started Matt Flynn and sat the rookie. But most of you who are saying we need a change know NOTHING about the QB position or what the coach is trying to do for that matter. Just watch the game last night about how many bad balls were thrown and 2 things happened..They were INT’s (Romo)or the receiver’s went up and made plays(Cutler).When they open the play book up I think we will bee the RW grow. But when you have a predictable offense going up against and exotic defensive scheme..GOOD LUCK. it is a recipe for disaster and makes for a lot of frustration on the players and fans. I think patience is paramount as we will see a better offense in the very near future !! Seahawks 23 Carolina 13

  27. ChrisHolmes: “He’s a rookie. For sure. And anyone with any memory at all knows how rookies suffer in the NFL. Sure, every once in a while a guy has a good rookie season, but for the most part they suffer.”

    You are absolutely right. The problem is, the rookie QBs this year (Luck, RGIII, Weeden, Tannehill) have all put up big numbers — and last year, Cam Newton and Andy Dalton looked good. So fans expect the same from Russell Wilson. I’m sure he’ll be fine, but it’s going to take some time.

    As for his height, I do think they have to make some adjustments, but it shouldn’t hold him back. How tall was Dan McGwire? He could see EVERYTHING, just couldn’t get the ball there.

  28. rramstad says:

    I’m not going to get into the Xs and Os too much but I will agree with some other posters that the offensive playcalling on 3rd and short was baffling (and probably lost us the game) and the defense giving up first downs on 3rd and long was also baffling (and probably cost us the game).

    I don’t know if RW is the best starting quarterback for this team, but I am also not willing to lay all of this at his feet at this point. He’s clearly part of the problem, but it is unclear to me if this is rookie growing pains or if we’re simply seeing what happens when you start a very talented short quarterback in a league filled with 6′ 3″ players.

    Ergo, I don’t know yet if this is something that is a permanent issue with RW or if he’s going to grow out of it.

    I do think that if RW personally struggles this week, it’s probably time to let Flynn have a few starts, even perhaps up to the bye week assuming he doesn’t stink up the joint in both of the first two games, which would give him five starts of his own. At that point you could really understand exactly what you had in both players.

    Watching Romo throw five picks, well, it was magical :-) but in all seriousness it makes me feel a lot better about RW and his three picks this last week. I think all three could be chalked up to accidents, though if you want to blame one on RW, I wouldn’t argue. (Ball through Baldwin’s hands, tight end falls down, those aren’t his fault. Arm getting hit a bit while he’s throwing because he didn’t get out of the pocket and/or throw quickly enough? Kind of 50/50, he’s not blameless, but it’s not entirely his fault, either.)

  29. PugetHawk says:

    I wonder if Carroll would keep the same kind of restraints aka training wheels, on Flynn as he has with Wilson if Flynn were healthy enough to start, which he probably is considering he is not on the injury report.

    Wilson was taking risks and makin moves in the pre-season and now he seems terrified to make a mistake. Carroll can’t continue to keep such a tight lid on him going forward… in my opinion.

  30. PugetHawk says:

    Does anyone know why Flynn isn’t listed on the injury report? I guess I am not too clear as to what constitutes injured for Pete.

    I am pretty confused right now. I like Wilson but he isn’t being given enough rope to hang himself with at this point so now he is a lamb.

    It seems weird that Flynn has had a chronic elbow problem and it has never been reported. Or maybe it has?

  31. Those three INTs can be chalked up to “Any Given Sunday” or “Sh*t happens!” The Seahawks won against the Packers for that reason. So 2-2 is probably where they should be. Even great teams lose games because the ball bounces the wrong way. The Seahawks should not be putting themselves in “last-second TD to win” situations. They should be able to stomp on Carolina the way the Giants did. It shouldn’t be close.

    On another note, looks like Hasselbeck might play the rest of the season.
    Locker could be done.

  32. mojjonation says:

    PC has said that he and Cable essentially run the offense. If that’s true, and Miller came from the Raiders when Cable was coach, why don’t they throw him the damn ball? The guy is a three time pro bowler with Jason Campbell and Jamarcu Russel (I think) as his QB’s. The only thing those two have on Wilson, is height. With Bevell’s numbers from his years in Minnesota, I’m curious as to why he is even here. Until Favre showed up, he was a virtual nobody whose passing game was less than average, and that is with AP in the backfield. That being said…

    Who was calling the plays on the first drive? Who was calling the plays after that? Did the Rams make adjustments or did the play calling change it’s tune to the point where it stagnated the offense?
    We can run the ball on anybody, anytime, anywhere. Maybe they should run a goal line or jumbo package once they hit the red zone and dare the defense to stack the box. Honestly, it’s better than an endless string of corner fade routes.

    We have the best first and second down defense in the league. Problem is, they sit back and play what looks to be zone on third and long. Jam jam jam at the line and kill those timing routes, or send someone else once the four down lineman get occupied. I know it is easy to be an armchair coach, but if we have those lockdown corners and safties that we speak of, there has to be an extra LB or two who can go after the QB because there aren’t 5 guys in the pattern on every third down play. That or let the opposing team gain 6 or 7 yards on first and second down and keep them out of known passing third downs. Again, easier said than done.

    The running game and special teams appear to be in their prime. Once the DC figures out how to get tht team off the field on third down, they will be primed. So that would be 3 out of four areas ready to win now. The passing game is primed to win when? 2015? I don’t think anyone but a homer has any of our receivers on their fantasy football team. If you do, you probably don’t start them. Would any of these guys even start on another NFL franchise?

    I like Wilson. He’s a good guy. It’s good to hear he is the first one at the VMAC and the last one to leave. The problems with the passing game seem to be a combination of things. But when it is the QB who suffers, it will also be him who gets blamed. Pourous line blocking. Bad or lazy route running. Receivers giving up when they aren’t the primary target or they get to the end of their route. Bad play calling. Happy feet. Receivers falling down. Missing open receivers. Idiotic penalties. All of these things have been said and repeated over the first four weeks of the season. I’m not even sure where to start and try to fix any of it.

  33. “So why not pull Wilson now for Flynn? IMO it’s a knee jerk reaction without patience that would be irreversible unless Flynn set the world on fire. Once a QB change takes place during the season then you better be right because credibility, the locker room and jobs will be at stake. IMO it is much too early to judge that Flynn is the sole answer to the puzzle.”

    Some good posts in this thread. Maybe it’s just that Tuesdays are much calmer than Mondays after a loss.

    The above is what I think as well – I can’t disagree that Wilson’s play isn’t an issue for the team, I just think that his play has not been so poor, in this relatively small sample size of 4 games, that we have already determined he’s not up to the job. And, as noted above, there are significant repercussions to a QB change. It just smacks of instability.

  34. “I don’t know what the answer is… But if PC wants to keep rolling the dice with Wilson, so be it. I’m on board. I am hoping that in a couple of years, Wilson has the pro game figured out the way Brees does and we’re all reminiscing about how much we overreacted to his rookie season.”

    Right, same here. It’s not like I’m certain about RW (I too figured that it was Flynn’s job to lose this season), but I guess I’m still in with Carroll. I know some one here have gotten pretty impatient (and some seem to genuinely hate the guy for some reason), but I know what the team looked like 2 yrs ago, and what it looks like now – and that gives me enough evidence and optimism to still trust the guy’s judgment.

  35. PugetHawk says:

    I’m in a 10 team fantasy league and no one has any of the Hawks receivers. When teams play so close to the line of scrimmage, it would be nice to be able to make them pay. Instead they seem to just sell out and trust that Wilson won’t make the read or there won’t be a read to make because the receivers are covered.
    I would like to see Miller get involved more too.

  36. Sparky12 says:

    mojjonation: Good summary on your post and very much in line with how I fell about Bevell’s play calling and his years with Favre in Minnesota. I remember once reading a comment from Bevell himself that about half the time Favre tossed out his plays and “winged it”. No wonder! I just don’t buy Pete’s statement that he is the one controlling Wilson’s game. Pete is and always has been about defense, and Bevell has to be the one making some of these 3rd down choices that are head scratchers at best.

    Dukeshire did a good job on his take of Wilson’s passing problems, but I still think given our problems at the O-line, Wilson should be given a game or two yet before he is benched in favor of Flynn. Wilson does indeed have some issues seeing down the middle, but if he can steady his desire to flee the pocket too soon, things should improve. And Wilson is a student of the game, so perhaps a bit more NFL experience will allow him to comprehend what he sees and take advantage of it.

  37. I beleive Pete Caroll is playing and staying with Russell Wilson because of what he sees in his future. Not the future as in next year and beyond, I’m talking later this season. If he wants to go 8-0 in the second half of the season and roll into the play-offs with a chance to win it all, he knows he needs Russell Wilson playing at the top of his game to do it. Matt Flynn will never, ever get his team to that level. But the potential of Russell Wilson is so intriguing that Pete and the Seahwks organization believe that he just might be able to do just that. If they can get through these first half games with Russell Wilson learning what in means to be an NFL QB at say 4-4 or even 3-5 then who knows where this could go in the second half. Pete is not going to give up on that dream yet. He has a great running game, one of the best defenses in the league, and if he can add a dynamic passing attack to it, then the sky is the limit. Pete is NOT hoping for 9-7 season and just barely making the play-offs, he’s planning on a great season and winning it all. Some of you are ready to write off the season after only 4 games but C’mon Man, let’s watch this play out a little before we all give up on the dream.

  38. yakimahawk says:

    And the reason (Duke don’t leave) this blog is getting a little edgy is because this is the first time in years we have seen this much talent on defense and everyone knows if we just get a liitle juice from the passing game we win and win a lot. We all bleed seahawks blue (and now mr. yuck green) we just want success and to feel good about what’s going on. Most of us have been Hawks fans for 30+ years and we want a Super Bowl WIN…Honestly if we all hang in there a little longer we will see this it happen in the next couple of years. They are puting something together that is very special and it will show big results soon. Remember PC/JS dismantled the team and basically started over. Very hard to do and they did it (QB issue pending).

  39. Dukeshire says:

    Sparky12 – Thanks, but a lot of what I see regarding the o line isn’t a breakdown in protection, it’s a byproduct of the passing scheme. That it, Wilson’s deep drops are creating the illusion that the pass pro is an issue, when getting the ball out more quickly (3 and 5 step drops) provide cleaner pockets. (Generally, of course.)

  40. Carlsonkid says:

    I’ve only been posting here on this blog for a couple of years now , but the thing that brought me here in the first place was the fact there was intelligent discussion without rancar like so many other sites ( cough cough – PFT ) . Duke , pabuwal , canfan & some of the other ‘old timers’ here have always made this an enjoyable exchange between fans . Folks used to respect differing opinions . It’s unfortunate to hear someone like Dukeshire say he’s thinking of discontinuing his posts . People need to remember everyone here is a Seahawk fan and either chill out or leave …

    Oh , and Wilson should still start regardless of Flynn’s health ; it’s Bevel that needs to go : )

  41. Sparky12 says:

    Dukeshire: Your opinion please: If the 3 & 5 step drops are what is needed, I assume then our O-line must almost always force the pressure to each side so as too allow Wilson a better viewing lane, due to his short height? Tall order to fill and indeed puts a lot of added pressure on the O-line guys to both protect the passer and clear out the middle.

  42. mojjonation says:

    One of the channels cut away to the end of the NO-GB, can’t remember which one. NO’s line, actually pushes the D-line to the outside and Brees is staring down the middle of the field. I didn’t notice this at first, but recalling the height of Wilson being compared to Brees, I started to watch the line. NO’s line actually shifts protection to make lanes open. The line knows the routes, and knows where those lanes need to be and roughly when the receivers will be open. It seemed as if they were forcing the defense into rushing lanes that they could control and manipulate for Brees to make the throws. Anyone else ever notice this or have the same line of thought?

    In the 2005 NFC Championship Game, Seattle all but shut down Steve Smith because they bracket covered him. If they can do that again, and contain SuperCam and our very own Jonathon Stewart, they should be able to come home with a W. If not, those NE and SF games are looking pretty scary. We can still dig out of a 3-4 hole (albeit at 0-2 in division). 2-5 is very daunting looking.

  43. Dukeshire says:

    I think so. IMO, that’s part of the challenge Bevell faces: calling plays that Wilson has command of, while trying not to be entirely predictable, with a reduced playbook based on some of Wilson’s physical limitations. Of course, as he gains greater command of the offense, some of that is alleviated, but for now it’s got to be difficult. To compound matters, ZBS requires o linemen block as a “team” where a more power blocking system has linemen manning up individually. It become more difficult to open lanes quickly in a zone scheme. So right there, to me, it appears as though the passing offense is a bit hamstrung. Certainly that beinfits defenses, who now can focus their own gameplans.

  44. Dukeshire says:

    On the flip side, Wilson’s athleticism ought to be an asset, but he’s struggling to run the plays and extend them when they breakdown. That is typical of rookie “growing pains”.

  45. thursday says:

    I can see the defensibility of sitting him and starting Flynn, not gonna take an emotional reaction to either side, but I honestly think he’s doing better than his numbers might say and I also agree with Boling that they need to let him be himself. His instincts looked good initially, but I don’t think he’s being allowed to use them much.

    That said, I frankly think between Marshawn and Turbin, that we could focus a lot more on the run and just wear some defenses down.

  46. Dukeshire says:

    The good news is that Carolina is one of the worst defenses against the run, in the NFL.

  47. I agree with you TruBlu…. The time is now. They already have the run game, the defense, and the special teams. The only thing missing is the passing game. I think it will cost Pete his job if he squanders this opportunity so a rookie can learn on the fly.

  48. RDPoulsbo says:

    Sparky12: The problem with the 3-5 step drops with Wilson’s height is the throwing lanes are too narrow, and that problem is especially amplified by Wilson not yet at NFL speed and anticipating when the windows will open. That’s the single biggest problem I see that’s on Wilson because that’s also the bread and butter of the WCO passing game.

    If you look at the opening drive on Sunday, you had very little of the short drop timing patterns. Instead, as I described above, you had play action (o-line run blocking rather than fanning out into pass protection) and rollouts to get Wilson out of the pocket (which are staples of Erhardt-Perkins pass plays). This is where PC/Cable/Bevell deserve the criticism. This is the stuff that plays to Wilson’s strengths (making plays on the run with both his arm and legs) while covering his weakness (height). With a running game like Seattle has, safeties have to honor it and cheat toward the line of scrimmage, making for more opportunities to make plays in this offensive style. With PC calling Wilson a playmaker, he should at the very least let him make plays.

    I’ve had a lot of criticism for all parties in the passing game because it takes a team effort to have the 2nd lowest passing production in franchise history, but I stop short of calling for Flynn to start (at least for now). If everyone continues to produce the same kind of passing game as we’ve seen for a few more games, then it’s time to make that change. Wilson isn’t going to do much with 3 and 5 step timing routes at least this year, so either play to what he does best or bring in Flynn who does fit that type of gameplan.

  49. I think the 3-5 step drops can work but either the WRs must be open on the final step or Wilson has to be willing to make a tight window throw (because these WRs are too slow to really get open).

    Once the pocket starts to collapse and he has to “climb the pocket” to find receivers, the play is dead and the Seahawks will be lucky to not have a negative play.

  50. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Defending Russell Wilson is IRRATIONAL. In what conceivable way is Wilson doing “fine” if the goal is to give us the best chance to win on Sunday?

    He ranks 31 of 32 in QBR. Our most notable victory came in a game where it was all defense – despite a controversial call to end the game – where Wilson completed less than 50% of his passes and had half his yardage on two catches. If we want to say the playbook is closed, what does that say about the coaching staff’s confidence in him, despite the starting position? And his lack of audibles? Is that the playbook thing, or can he not read an NFL defense?

    This “he’s a rookie, it’s what we should expect” talk is not helping us win. It’s making excuses. It’s time for Matt Flynn. We have a strong run game, so in the passing game we don’t need theatrics – we need game management.

    Flynn for QB. If he doesn’t work out, whatever, Wilson isn’t working out either.

    We could be as good as the Texans if Flynn was playing.

  51. HawkyHann says:

    Darrell Bevell has to be the worst play caller in the NFL. Just watch the two crucial third down plays he called over the past two games. one of those being an option. Yup, an option vs Green Bay. Why be cute, the only thing we do well is run hard and be physical. He dials up the crappiest calls when the pressure is on. Its like he’s trying to trick them with his wizardly mind. Lets admit the Minnesota experiment has been horrible, down right embarrassing. Look at how average Sidney Rice is. He, TJack, and Bevvell are all under performers. Why in the hell did we go all in with this trio? send them back to the upper Midwest to freeze.

  52. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Going into NFL games with Russell Wilson at QB is akin to entering a boxing match with one hand tied behind your back. No matter how good your other hand is at defending yourself and slowing down your opponent, you certainly cannot finish them off without your other hand.

  53. chuck_easton says:

    I’m over fighting with all the Johnny come lately posters who have shown up on here and have decided that anyone who has an opinion other than theirs, has the nerve to question the decisions being made, and doesn’t believe Wilson is ready right now is an idiot and should go away.

    Like Duke I have been on this site for over 8 years and it’s never been as ugly as it is now. I put the blame squarely on a select few who have shown up here in the last year or so.

    Yes, I do not agree with the decision to play Wilson. He’s a rookie and he’s not getting it done. I understand the coaches thinking that he is the QB of the future so we should just let him go through his struggles.

    The frustration is the team is built to win now. They have one of the best defences in the NFL and the best rushing attack.

    Let’s just hope that next year when Wilson finally starts to get it we still have this defence and running attack. Will Lunch still be at this level next year after the beating he’s taking now? Will the young D get better or will the injury bug hit?

    There are only so many windows of opportunity in the NFL and I am concerned that the Seahawks are wasting one while they let Wilson grow into the job.

    I also am a good read of people. The players are already starting to grumble. The frustration is building within the locker room.

    If Flynn gives the team a chance to win now while letting Wilson continue to learn and grow I don’t see why this wouldn’t be considered.

    It’s evident after yesterday that Pete Carroll has decided to go with Wilson no matter what. I don’t have to like the decision and I will continue to voice my dissent but I will still root for the team I’ve loved for the past 34 years.

    I will not accept the newbies on here telling me what I should and should not say.

  54. NWPoseidon says:

    Hmmm Warren Moon on 710 thinks Russel deserves more time. I’ll trust Mr Moon.

  55. RDPoulsbo says:

    pabuwal: See, that’s where there’s a problem. The very basic idea of the WCO is you have to have a very accurate QB because most of the throws he’ll make are into tight windows. I’m guessing PC is telling him not to try to make tight throws.

    The other part is quick decisions. WR speed isn’t the issue here because you’re not going to get much separation in the 2 seconds it should take for the ball to get out of the QB’s hand. Especially in the 1st half, if you see a QB in a WCO system holding the ball for about 4 seconds, it usually means he didn’t make his decision fast enough and missed his windows. We’re seeing a lot of that with Wilson right now.

  56. Pete Carroll has got to accept turnovers and sacks will happen in the course of a QB making plays.

  57. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Why would you trust Warren Moon? He’s the same affirmative-action drunkard who vehemently defended Tarvaris Jackson as a potential starting QB of the future, along with Scam Buston, Troy Smith, etc.

  58. NWPoseidon says:

    How about John Gruden?

    Or really who would you trust? I don’t think you would trust anyone.

  59. boycie99 says:

    We can argue and fight all we like but at the end of the day PC is making the decisions and is sticking with Wilson, at least for Sundays game. Some on here think thats wrong while other, of which I am one think its the right thing to do.
    The focus this week with Wilson must be to play to his strengths, look what he was doing Pre-season and try and replicate, yes i know D schemes were very vanilla in pre season but he was hitting the receivers and playing with confidence.

    Chuck you are getting all mentrual saying people are calling you out if you dont jump on the Wilson bandwagon well you are doing the exact same to people who wont moan about how badly he is playing.
    This ive been here 8 years thing, so what, does that mean you have a bigger claim to being right?
    I also dont see or here the grumblings from the locker room.

    Everyone has opinions, views and what they think is right and wrong and thats why blogs like this exist, to debate, you are an educated man so why bitch and moan over trivial things.

    Everyone wants the best for the Hawks but believe in different ways of getting there.

  60. Southendzone says:

    Skipping any and all pro/con RW arguments, if the Hawks want to win using this philosophy of solid defense, run game, and ST, they need to follow the blueprint 100% and if they do, they can get away with subpar QB play.

    What I mean specifically is the fake FG attempt. That was about the most obvious situation for a fake FG attempt you will ever have, and I’m not even blaming this on the players. Someone on that coaching staff has to be watching these things and getting the TO called in a timely manner. I don’t care what PC says about how he was trying to do it. You don’t try, you watch these things carefully and be prepared and you save your team 4 points by being in position to do so.

    That play plus the stupid reactionary onside kick attempt I point to as enormous coaching failures last week.

    I want a cerebral evil genius style coach like Belicheck, not one that sounds like a hyperactive chipmunk on crystal meth.

  61. pabuwal says:

    That onside kick had to be one of the dumbest coaching decisions in the NFL this year.

  62. The game last week was decided over the lack of third down successful play…both offense in making third downs and the defense stopping the third downs.

    PC, you got to open this offense up downfield! Wilson can make the throws and with our running offense…play action is set right up! The talent is there…its just got to be put together and they need to perform. Trun Wilson loose and let him playmake a little. I love the running game…but you got to change things up to make this team successful!

    I support Wilson being the QB. But he needs to be unleashed and let’s see what the kid can do!

  63. That onside kick call tells us alot about this coaching staffs decision making process (or lack thereof).

    I thought Sean Payton was a retard for calling an onside kick in the Superbowl – same thing here. The game is still within reach and you have a terrific defence, why risk the onside kick?

  64. DanielleMND says:

    “Wilson was taking risks and makin moves in the pre-season and now he seems terrified to make a mistake. Carroll can’t continue to keep such a tight lid on him going forward… in my opinion.”

    I agree. Turn RW loose. The playbook needs to be opened up. Let him get into a good passing rhythm in a game.

  65. DanielleMND says:

    ” I don’t think anyone but a homer has any of our receivers on their fantasy football team. If you do, you probably don’t start them. Would any of these guys even start on another NFL franchise?”

    I think Rice would be a starter on another team, but he’d be the #2 receiver. This team hasn’t had a dominant receiver for a very long time. That has to be our biggest focus in the offseason.

  66. boycie99 says:

    The whole fake FG, shanked punt and then onside kick turned the game.
    7 of those points were on PC. The extra 4 from the faked FG and the gimme on the onside kick, agree why when their kicker is booming them on from 60 yards give them 3 points to start the half, madness

  67. ACIaB is the only one who seems irrational to me, but apparently it’s the rest of us. Warren Moons an affirmative action drunkard? So we should listen to… you? Not the Hall of Famer? Or the coaches? I don’t even care if I get blocked for calling you out, you’re just being an @$$ now. #12thMan

  68. mojjonation says:


    Rice had one productive year when he had a HOF QB throwing to him who called his own plays when he didn’t like the ones that Bevell sent in. Rice, Bevell, and Jackson, were nobodies on a team that featured AP and a nasty defense. The best Jackson, Rice, and Bevell could muster was a 10 win season and nothing else.

    I honestly have no idea where to start in trying to fix what is going on. PC, Cable, or Bevell are calling plays. But all plays called by Bevell go through Cable and PC. What kills me is that there were rumors about how much Winslow was going to count against the salary cap and that was part of the reason they cut him. If that’s the case, why don’t we cut Rice and Miller too? Those guys are making bank and not getting any production. It doesn’t help that we only throw 20 times a game and no one gets targeted more than a handful.

    Geez. The onside kick. Coach Rara letting his emotions get the best of him again. You swear with the discipline issues, calls like that, and either lying to the fans or the league, he thinks he is still in college.

  69. “joreb
    Oct. 2, 2012 at 7:38 am

    It’s good to see the ‘other’ side of keeping Wilson as our starting QB. I still believe in this guy. I mean, he’s a frickin’ rookie 4 games in.”

    Amen. I agree 100%. I just don’t agree that his time is now.

    chuck says: “I will not accept the newbies on here telling me what I should and should not say.”

    Another Amen. Another agreed with point 100%. I don’t care who says what and I don’t expect special treatment for being here for years from someone who makes their first post, but some of the lunacy is crazy. Hey, I’m not perfect and say plenty of stupid things in the heat of the moment, but trying to run people away for an opinion is a joke.

    Think of pabs. I disagree with that guy about as much as you can with anyone, but at the end of the day I respect that he’s a Seahawks fan and he is knowledgeable (not that we’ve never said stupid things to each other).

    I thought T-Jack sucked. I hated that guy. I never thought he’d amount to anything close to good.

    I think Wilson sucks now. But I like him and think he’ll eventually be good, even with his height problem. He’ll make up for it, eventually. Not now (it’s obvious).

    Normally, game experience trumps all but for now, I think he needs to sit and watch before he gets another shot (so he’s ready when he gets that shot).

    He’s set up to succeed with a top 3 defense and a great run game and, IMO, a #1 WR in Rice. What more could a QB want/need to be in a position to be successful and it’s not happening? A guy like Matt Ryan is getting hammered way more than Wilson but he’s not dead and can still make things happen so I am not in the mood to hear about how bad the OL is and no QB could live in Seattle other than a mobile one.

  70. HawkyHann says:

    I can already forsee Bubble Screen Bevvell getting carried away with dink and dunks, and slant routes to Golden Tate on Third Down. Then on a critical 3rd and short, he’ll fool us all and do a reverse to Obomanu or possibly a pitch out to Marshawn to sprint for the corner(which is not his strength).

    Start Edwards and put Tater tot into the slot where he belongs. Baldwin looks hurt and non-effective right now. “Big boys play on the outside” R. White

  71. chuck_easton says:


    I don’t have an issue with the pro-wilson crowd. If you love him and are ok with the growing pains of a rookie then great!

    I just don’t think he’s ready. My opinion. I’m not asking anyone else to buy into it and I’m not offended by anyone who takes a different view. That’s what we do here. We debate, we disagree, we argue our points.

    We don’t call people idiots and tell them to go away no matter WHAT side of any argument they are on. Nobody on here knows everything. Nobody is always right. We all have the one thing we are very passionate about.

    This happens to be mine. I don’t want to see the team throw away a season of promise because our QB is taking his time coming up to speed.

    But since that is the choice perhaps the coaches should take off the training wheels and let him go. If he flies he was ready and they were holding him back without cause. If he REALLY tanks we have our answer.

  72. Sherman didn’t “grumble” anything about about his side of the ball not doing its job? Big Red was pretty happy with the offensive “output,” too.

    Isn’t it kind of tough to take off the training wheels when Mr. Happy is happy that there’s a week that went by (a loss) when none of the play calls got screwed up? Kind of tough to take off those wheels when basic things are getting fouled up (and we see them).

  73. sluggo42 says:

    per Duke – The good news is that Carolina is one of the worst defenses against the run, in the NFL.

    the bad news – Bevell will make a QB draw call or something else to ruin the run.

    So ,,, … Did anyone consider that it really doesn’t make much of a difference WHO is the QB right now?

    Either of them are good enough for what we are doing. Penalties, stupid calls, bad 3rd down defense, and coaching. Either QB would be doing very well if we didn’t have all these other problems.

    Our killer “D” would be even more killer, if the offense could mount a few drives instead of the endless 3 and outs

  74. sluggo42 says:

    Every blog has the few “select few” that “ruin” the blog, except thats what a blog is.

    If your gunna quit for a few “bad apples” (in your opinion), see ya.

    thin skin in a blog is futile

  75. ChrisHolmes says:

    I’m one of those fans that loves Wilson, but I readily admit the kid is not ready to lead a team successfully right now. However, I am willing to deal with the lumps now for a higher ROI in the coming years.

    That said, it’s difficult to take because Flynn is waiting in the wings. If TJack was our backup, hell no; I wouldn’t entertain a single thought about switching QB. But with Flynn waiting, knowing he’s capable (IMO), it’s hard to watch Wilson’s rookie mistakes.

    If I were the coach, I wouldn’t make QB decisions based on intangibles, or personality, or great storylines, or anything else. I’d make my decision based on the other 52 guys in the locker room. If I felt like I was losing the locker room because I was starting Wilson the rookie, I’d give Flynn a shot. If I felt like switching QB’s would lose me the locker room, I’d stick with the kid.

    The team, above all, deserves to have the guy they trust and believe in the most behind the center. I wish I was inside the locker room to know how the team is swaying…

  76. Of course it doesn’t matter who the QB is right now. If Jesus (or Wilson) can’t get any offense going, then it means that John Elway in his prime would suck in this offense, too.

  77. pabuwal says:

    If Carroll made his decision on the locker room, Jackson would still be the starting QB.

  78. chrisj122 says:

    Sluggo how does it not matter who our QB is?

    Our QB is currently dead last in passing, how does that not matter?

    You can blame other factors such as O-line, receivers, play calling, whatever but Wilson has to take some of the blame for our poor passing stats because he is, well, the QB. That’s how you rate QB’s is by stats and wins, to just regard all that and say oh everyone else sucks is ridiculous.

    I do think Flynn would be more successful at this point in his career and we would be in a better position to win more games but this not the path Pete has chosen. So it is what is but don’t try to tell me it doesn’t matter who our QB is, when our offense can’t score more than 13 points a game or more than 150yrds passing in a game. Not mention our QB is too SHORT.

  79. sluggo42 says:

    Because Chris, neither one of them is Elway today. If we didn’t have all the things I mentioned, we would be at least 3-1, maybe 4-0.

    So what if Wilson is last in passing, what if we were 4-0 and he were last in passing still? then what?

  80. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chuck, bobby and duke i have been here almost as long as you and enjoyed reading most of what you have posted. chuck that said we on the blog have always policed the blog and called out the negative pointless ranting. no one comes on here to hear endless negative rants, we’re on here to talk hawks and a lot of times play armchair gm. i personally don’t care if it’s someones first visit here if any of us are spewing negative crap on everyone we deserve to be called out on it.
    ACIB i have said this before and i will say again. what if flynn doesn’t work out? then wilson loses 3-4 maybe 5 games of experience he needs.

  81. the deck is certainly stacked against Wilson, IMO. Can’t go to Carolina and win scoring 12 points, IMO.

  82. Anyone else here remember watching Matt Hasselbeck in his first season here in 2001? He lost a lot of games. We had a veteran QB named Dilfer who was good enough to start and likely win more games, but Holmgren wanted to develop Hasselbeck. I remember a lot of people screaming for Dilfer to start in 2001 and 2002. It took Matt a lot of reps before he became a super bowl QB, but eventually he got there.

    I’ve never been a fan of staring a rookie QB, personally. But all I needed to know is this – Listening to Pete Carroll the other day, it sounded to me like he would be very uncomfortable trying to get Matt Flynn ready to start a game right now. Meanwhile, he still sounds very excited about the potential of Wilson. That’s all I need to know.

    This is a very young and developing team. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

  83. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    stevos, there were some very bad games that year.

    personally if they are gonna stick with wilson i would rather see the coaches let him play. i think he gets more big plays than interceptions.

  84. I’m sure they’ll let Wilson run more of the offense as he gets experience. Heck, last year they kept training wheels on Jackson for the first several games, and he was a veteran. They’d probably be doing the same with Flynn

  85. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    i still want to know who decided going to the pass in the red zone was good idea.

  86. I think the main issues are:

    1. The run game and defense are screaming playoffs, and possibly deep playoffs.

    2. The window is closing slowly. Won’t be able to afford all the elite secondary players at once when the contracts are up. I see Thomas walking at the end of his rookie deal.

    3. With the lackluster passing game, people (fans and some players) are calling for a change. Can’t play D like that, have a raping running game, and still be realistically 1-3. After last night, I’m not so convinced Dallas is for real, so a lot of the stock and credibility that came from that win is moot.

    4. If the players want to try something different at quarterback (and I would imagine they do), and Carroll pushes Flynn all season, then that locker room is as good as gone. This will be the Jets of the west.

    5. If you’re dumbing down a playbook to cater to a STARTING rookie QB, then he shouldn’t be starting. If he was starting due to injury, that’s when you soften the playbook.

    6. This team is likely going to get blown out in Carolina.

  87. chrisj122 says:

    Sluggo – If we were 4-0 and still last in passing I would still be very concerned with our offense.
    How long do you think you can keep wining with your defense only?

    Do you really expect a team to have a playoff run when the offense can’t score more than 13points a game?

    If our passing was just a little bit better we would be at least 3-1 if not 4-0, even with penalties we have had.
    If our QB had stats that could give him ranking of 20 instead 32 we would be a really good, well rounded team.
    Matt Flynn certainly couldn’t do any worse and more likely get closer to that 20 ranking.
    So even with the things you mentioned it does matter, a lot.

  88. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chrisj the ravens did it in 2000. dilfer looked very much like wilson numbers wise. dilfer had 12 completions for a buck fifty and one td not real impressive. 8 games started 1500 yards 12 td 11int.

    i would argue that without the mental errors we very well are 3-1 4-0.
    this isn’t just a QB thing .

    radeon you assume a lot on 4 and 6. you assume that putting flynn in will fix everything.

  89. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    the 1 game stats were for the super bowl

  90. Audible says:


    “I’ve been on this blog for the better part of 8 seasons now, and the acrimony that is on display here now, has me seriously considering if I want to be a part of this any longer. I’m embarrassed for the posters when I read more than half the posts. It’s ridiculous.””

    Look in the mirror because you’re as ridiculous as some of the other posters on here, which is too bad because you used to be good.

  91. Stevos – You conveniently “forget” that Hasselbeck was benched and then Dilfer took over. Maybe it’ll turn out that way for Wilson/Flynn, or Flynn/Wilson, but nobody knows for sure. It was probably for the best that Matt was benched. And he had been in the league for some years, whereas Wilson is thrown into the fire as a rookie and is sucking…

    I think Wilson “deserves” some time to develop on the sidelines. I have never said that I think he sucks in the long term, but now he does and should be rescued from himself and his inexperience.

  92. bird_spit says:

    I have only watched the game twice…once mostly sober. That first series was terrific. It was basically mistake free. From then on, the tide changed. #68, Giacommni, got owned. The rookie became jittery. Had the coaches used screens and other short passes, he probably would have regained some composure sooner. I too started to think it is time to switch QBs. If I was coach, I would never have started Wilson to begin with. Hawks are 2-2..if they play another game like the last, they are 2-3, and the majority of fans will demand change. The ownership won’t want the CLink chanting Flynn, so I bet the leash is short for Wilson. Wilson steps up in Carolina, and he will get another go. My hope is Wilson throws 300 yds, and Lynch runs every down in the Q4 to get his 100 yards. I just think the coaches will continue to keep the complexity down. Next year they better go WR in he first round…

  93. chrisj122 says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma – The Ravens D in 2000 is arguably the best ever!
    Their Defense set records that year of fewest point and yards ever allowed in a season. Many of their games were won by shutouts. Our D is good but no where near that level.

    I have a good friend who is a Ravens fan so I know all to well about that 2000 Ravens team. They ran the ball very, very well that year they had some 1800+ yrds rushing season between 2 running backs. The 2000 Ravens worse offensive stretch that season was a 5 game period where they did not score a touchdown and guess what? They lost 3 of those games. A few of those games the offense put up good numbers and a lot of points.

    Ravens D was super stupid impressive that year and their offense was able to run the ball at will. After Dilfer took over for Tony Banks the passing improved to become stable.

    So to compare the 2000 Ravens to this year’s Seahawks is pointless because there is no comparison.

  94. LBCHawk says:

    I couldn’t read through all the comments, but I absolutely agree with Mojonation 32 in his 10:32am comment. I’ve been thinking the same thing– 3rd down has killed us with bad calls on offense and strange zone coverage on defense. It feels like every time we play zone we get killed (see Arizona’s last drive and St. Louis all day). In fact, I thought if Rodgers wasn’t so pressed to look way downfield last week, that they could have burned us on those short passes. Seems like the Rams saw the same thing.

    If we’ve got the personnel to match up man and we play great man, then let’s do what we do best on 3rd down. And if we can run all day on offense, let’s do that on 3rd and short.

  95. dvaldez says:

    This tread and many like it recently tells me we all need to step away from the ledge. This team is young very young. I have thought for a while the expectations for the season have been very optimistic, if you had told me at start of the season we would be 2-2 I would have taken it. The one thing I want to see from Russell is to trust his line and step into the pocket, this is not something he has done and if he can’t do that he will not be the quarterback long. I think he has the “it” but in order to get to his potential he has to trust his teammates. I know this comment will immediately get the “he’s to short to step into the pocket” comments but that is BS, once he steps up the field will open as most of the defenders will be behind him. He has all the intangibles but this he must do or Flynn we will see soon. Also, I constantly hear we are wasting a top 5 defense by not playing Flynn now because he is most ready. Top 5 defense’s don’t continue to give up 3rd and longs, there is growing up to do on that side of the ball also.

  96. sluggo42 says:

    A lot of assumption that Flynn will be better.. That’s the rub, nobody knows. What if he is worse? Nobody knows, cept for maybe Pete?

    That’s why I say it doesn’t matter between the two right this second. We need to fix all the other crap for either of them to have a chance. And we better hurry up, or our top ten “D” will fall into top 20 “D”. NO defense can be great if they are on the field all damn game long..

  97. that’s true, sluggo. Nobody knows if Flynn would be better and there is one and only one group of men who have more information on that than any of us – Carroll’s coaching staff. Their judgement is that he won’t be better, at least not this week. One could tell from Pete’s interviews monday that he had reservations about Flynn at this point. Its funny that fans don’t realize the coaches have more information than we do.

    Remember when everyone wanted Charlie Whitehurst to replace TJack… except Pete Carroll? Turns out he was right. Maybe he’s right about Flynn too.

  98. Bobby, I remember well when Dilfer replaced Hasselbeck for a few games in 2001.

    But I disagree that Hasselbeck “Developed” by sitting on the bench. He developed by starting many games through 2001 and 2002, and by “sucking” as you would say, before becoming a very good QB by 2003. No one develops much by sitting on the bench.

  99. Seahawks22360 says:

    Open the playbook this weekend. See what he’s got. If he/we fail, put in Flynn.

  100. “I’ve never been a fan of staring a rookie QB, personally. But all I needed to know is this – Listening to Pete Carroll the other day, it sounded to me like he would be very uncomfortable trying to get Matt Flynn ready to start a game right now. Meanwhile, he still sounds very excited about the potential of Wilson. That’s all I need to know.”

    Seconded. All of that.

    People are so quick to pick on the failings of Carroll, and don’t seem to give equal weight to the many good things he and Schneider have done. Look at all the good, young talent they’ve brought into the team in just two years. They’ve changed the entire identity of our squad. If I see the team giving up, or getting blown out week after week, then maybe my faith will be proven wrong – – but I’m still in. I still think these PC/JS are the guys who will get us back to being contenders.

  101. Dukeshire says:

    Audible – That comment really was in reference to Sunday and yesterday, mostly. Granted, a bit over reaction on my part. But I’m curious what you believe I’m doing now that makes me ridiculous? And I understand you have never liked much of what I’ve said, but I’m still curious.

  102. Hammajamma says:

    Perhaps its your brevity and general temperance, which makes you a contrarian of late. I don’t always agree with you either, but I doubt that keeps you up at night.

  103. DICKSHIRE says:

    Hey dukeshire I think your incredible! Your posts are fantastic!you really are the 2nd coming!

  104. Dukeshire says:

    Hammajamma – I don’t care that people agree with me, but I’f I’ve a part of the problem here, then someone should say something.

  105. DICKSHIRE says:

    Your the king of kings dukey boy! The powder that coats my doughnut!your a true seahawk!

  106. Remember when everyone was pissed when we aquired Whitehurst? Some of the reasoning here to stay the course is mind boggling. Comparing this team to Baltimore, comparing what Wilson is doing to what Hasselbeck did (I don’t think Matt was a rookie starting in his first year with us), Letting RW take his lumps because we’re playing for the future, Pete Carrol is a genius and he must be trusted because of our D and running game (yet his play calling is suspect?), if Flynn were in it would be the same or he has no potential (how do we know this), etc. I just don’t get it. Rationalizing by speculating is not rational. Facts – RW is 5′ 10″, the passing game is dead last, 3 out of the 4 games have come down to the last drive where RW is forced to make something happen yet is handcuffed throughout the game till that point, we have the # 1 rusher, #2 D, one of the best special teams, and finally the most important thing, something needs to change.

  107. “Defending Russell Wilson is IRRATIONAL.”
    – Oh really but calling Warren Moon “an affirmative action drunkard” is completely rational.

    “In what conceivable way is Wilson doing “fine” if the goal is to give us the best chance to win on Sunday?”
    – Because in both our 2 losses (by a combined 10 pts) he gave us no chance to win @ the end.

    “Our most notable victory came in a game where it was all defense – despite a controversial call to end the game – where Wilson completed less than 50% of his passes and had half his yardage on two catches.”
    – Except for the win before that one, where he was 15-20 w/ a TD.

    “If we want to say the playbook is closed, what does that say about the coaching staff’s confidence in him, despite the starting position?”
    -I know, I mean what does it say about their confidence in Matt Flynn who couldn’t beat him out despite his $10 million in guaranteed money?

    And his lack of audibles? Is that the playbook thing, or can he not read an NFL defense?
    – You can’t possibly know if & when he audibles, let alone how to read a defense.

    “We could be as good as the Texans if Flynn was playing.”
    -this one is just too easy.

  108. Someone comparing this year’s hawks to the 2000 Ravens was unfortunate, but the gist is that a great D can carry a mediocre offense a long ways.
    Last year’s Niners would have been a better example. A great D, but not one of the best ever, statistically or subjectively by anyone’s opinions. 2011 SF passing offense was ranked 29th in the league.
    But I liked how Alex Smith ran that offense, and he was effective in the playoffs, until the last few drives in the NFC Championship game against the Giants. And I believe Wilson is perfectly capable of playing in that style. I would be perfectly happy if RW’s numbers looked similar to Smith’s, and we were winning. But Smith has had to go through his years of ups and downs, so I believe Wilson should be given the benefit of the doubt at this point. Not forever, mind you, but just for a game or two.
    And Chuck, I’m with you and others who want this team to win right now,
    but what if they can win now, meaning later in the season, with a seasoned Russell Wilson? There’s just no way to know, but I understand we as fans don’t have the access to information and the resulting insight, so we need some evidence that RW is improving.
    I agree with those that say take the training wheels off, and see if Wilson can fly. If not, then he wasn’t ready, and we’re in with Flynn.

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