Seahawks Insider

Carroll on 710 ESPN Seattle: Flynn still nursing elbow injury, so Wilson remains the starter

Post by Eric Williams on Oct. 1, 2012 at 12:03 pm with 103 Comments »
October 1, 2012 12:04 pm

Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll said during an interview with Brock Huard and Mike Salk of 710 ESPN Seattle this morning that the plan is to stay with rookie quarterback Russell Wilson for now, and that backup Matt Flynn isn’t an option to start at this point because he’s still nursing a sore elbow on his throwing arm that he injured during exhibition play.

You can listen to the entire interview here.

“We have a little bit of a problem in with Matt” Carroll said, when asked about the quarterback situation. “Matt’s still not full speed, and anybody that thinks, ‘okay, let’s go with the other guy,’ well he can’t practice yet. He can go in and throw it and make it through a game. He throws 15 throws a day, a couple days a week. And so that’s not really enough to get him ready to go into a game.”

Carroll’s comments are curious, because on the Saturday before the Green Bay game on Monday night, he seemed to indicate that Flynn was back to being fully healthy.

“This is really the first week in a month that he’s been able to throw in practice with any regularity,” Carroll said. “So just to get him on the field really gunning the ball around was great to see. … He’s really physically, finally it looked like back to normal.”

Flynn played scout squad quarterback and imitated Aaron Rodgers leading up to the Packers game. And Flynn also seemed to indicate that week that his elbow was no longer an issue.

“I’m ready to go whenever I need to go,” Flynn said. “That’s how I’m going to look at it. I still have confidence, and I think I can get the job done if I needed to.”

Flynn also said he did not feel the elbow injury factored into the team’s decision on who earned the starting quarterback job.

“I don’t think so,” Flynn said. “It’s just been more annoying than anything. But I don’t think that played a part in it.”

Further, Carroll has plenty of experience taking care of an injured quarterback through the week in order to make sure he’s available to play on Sunday.

That’s exactly what Carroll did for nine games last year when Tarvaris Jackson suffered a torn pectoral muscle, but only missed the Cleveland game.

Leave a comment Comments → 103
  1. madpunter88 says:

    It also invites questions about whether Flynn’s status has been properly articulated in the daily practice reports. Was Flynn listed as “limited participant” in some practices when his elbow was being nursed? Is that even a requirement?

  2. Is it just me, or does anyone else smell BS here?

  3. chuck_easton says:

    I’m with you blocis. I call total BS.

    This is coach speak for “we know the rookie is stinking up the joint, but we really don’t want to admit we were wrong, so we’ll just say that Flynn is still hurt. That way we can continue on with the failed experiment and blame it on an injury.”

    So, we get to see another week of ZERO offensive production from the QB. Another loss on the road where we could win if we had even decent QB play. A 2-3 record and the bottom of the NFCW.

    I can’t believe I’m saying this because I’ve been a big PC supporter. It’s time to point the finger at the HC and hold him accountable for 3 straight losing seasons.

    He isn’t going to be around to see this team when they are finally good. I hope he enjoys all the media interviews where he takes credit for building a winner while some other coach is leading the team to a winning record.

    Wilson is not the answer right now. It’s painfully obvious to everyone outside of Seattle. Our defense is #2 in the NFL and our rush offense is #1 yet we can’t score more than 13 or so points a game?

    Well, sounds like we don’t have to worry about Cable leaving to be named HC. He’ll get to stay in Seattle and get that title within the next year or so.

  4. If Flynn has been limited in practice and still suffering from an injury, why have the beat reporters not been reporting that in their blogs? What can we trust the Seahawks beat reporters to report if they miss telling us one of the most important facts their audience would be interested in knowing?

  5. Dukeshire says:

    Watch the language RADEoN. Among other things it undermines your point.

    But yes, Carroll is pretty clearly using the elbow as an out. Let’s see how quickly his elbow gets healthy when Wilson tosses a couple more picks and another 130 yards.

  6. I wonder, how many teams can run for 179 yards and still manage to lose the football game. Not too many.

  7. One things for sure if our defense stays number 2 and rush offense stays number one we will certainly be going to the playoffs and will obviously win more than 6 games. RADEoN do us all a favor and loose the foul mouth. All it does is make you sound incompetent!we are 500 after 4 games a little to early to totally freak out yet. I will say that I really don’t care for bevell as 0 coordinator I think he is out of his league and always has been as an offensive coordinator in the NFL

  8. How many QB’s did the Hawks suit up in the last 2 games? I thought it was only two: Wilson and Flynn. If that was the case, what were they going to do if Wilson got hurt? Play Michael Robinson?

  9. gonefishin69690 says:

    The big problem is, without a passing game, it won’t take watching too much film, for other teams to figure out how to stop our run game. And I also agree with everyone here about this being a load of BS.

  10. So portis is going to be active not flynn? What would of happened if RW got hurt during the tams game, Robinson would of took the helm?

  11. NWPoseidon says:

    For people like Radeon who think PC is just a college coach and can’t cut it in the NFL then how do you explain a top 3 defense, #1 run game and solid ST? Seems to me that a coach that can produce that knows what’s going on and he didn’t inherit this talent either.

    I think it’s worth pointing out that many SB teams including the Giants last year took a few games to put it all together. Starting 2-2 is not the end of the world. Especially since we have not even been dominated by anyone. People are freaking out over close games. When we are 2-5 then freak out please.

    First 8 games is all about adjustments and trying to keep your head above water while doing so. Beginning struggles are better than late struggles.

    Go Seahawks!

  12. Have we ever had a season that wasn’t dicey early, mid or late? Who knows what’s really going on here; I sure as hell don’t. All I know is our D doesn’t really stink, special teams seems pretty good, O is sketchy except when Lynch is running.

    So what’s new? Not clear obviously. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they do show up again before too long as their “dynamic, enthusiastic selves” (whatever that really means when the skies align and the gods happen to bless us with another win).

    Just thankful I don’t have to depend on the talent-money-media-injury and politics shell game of the NFL for a living.

  13. Sorry tdog, didn’t read your post beforehand

  14. Sparky12 says:

    RADEoN: Dude! Calling Pete Carroll an idiot is WAY over the top! Lets not forget he built this defense. Granted, I dont think much of him as a offensive coach, which is why Tom Cable and my least favorite coach Darin Bevell need to be held accountable for our scoring woes. But Pete uses whatever line he wants when it comes to questions on players. I too think the Flynn elbow is likely a BS story. And of course are offensive woes go way past just RW.

  15. yakimahawk says:

    Where is the live chat?

  16. Its not 2-2 that is the problem, its that we are 0-2 in our division. Take off the blunders, have you noticed AZ and SFC. We just list to the Rams, but yeah, 2-2 ain’t bad.

  17. I hate liars. It’s a good/great way to lose people and turn them on you.

  18. MEhawkfan says:

    It seems almost a “perfect storm.” In my mind the OC’s play calling is at times suspect, even given the fact he’s working with a rookie and therefore a limited playbook. There seems to be some confusion as to who is really running the offense. Is it “play-calling by committee?” Does Carroll cancel out Cable who in turn cancels out Bevell? If so, that’s obviously not working. Wilson is a quick study for a rookie, but the learning curve for QB in the NFL is steep, and he is definitely not climbing fast enough. Are the receivers giving Wilson enough help? I’ve seen them quit on routes, but I’ve also seen Wilson miss guys who were wide open. At times he puts balls on the money, at other times he has pretty terrible placement. Do the receivers get consistent separation? Finally, what about the O line. At times they seem fairly efficient at pass-blocking, at others they look inept. Sometimes Wilson doesn’t stay in the pocket long enough, sometimes he stays too long and doesn’t get rid of the ball quickly enough.

    All of these things, aside from the coaching committee, relate at least in part, to Wilson. He’s the guy, so the questions for me are: Was Sunday a wake-up call for him? It sure should have been. How much improvement is he capable of from one week to the next? How much improvement will we see next week? Yesterday would indicate he seems to have taken a couple steps backward. And last, how much can he grow in one week?

  19. jawpeace says:

    Hello people of course Matt is barely playing and limited during the week. Don’t be retards the number two guy barely gets any reps during the week. The are limited but it would be dumb to put them on the injury report as a limited participant. Because second and third stringers are Limited.
    This used to be my favorite site to read comments. I guess that is only good for the off season. Where the true and intelligent fan posts. Now is bunch of bitching, whining, low football IQ, fair weather fans, posting garbage.

  20. Dukeshire says:

    yakimahawk – Would you want to host a Live Chat with emotions this high? lol Hell no. Eric is smart to dodge this one.

  21. Pete Carroll on 9/20 said Matt Flynn was “Ready to go.” and that he was competing for the starting job. Has he been hurt since then?

  22. RDPoulsbo says:

    jawpeace: It’s not about backups only getting limited reps. If Flynn does indeed have an injury, he has to be reported as limited in the injury reports every week by NFL rules. So either PC has been violating the league rules or he’s lying this morning.

  23. ryanryan says:

    can someone try to convince me that our onside kick attempt was not done out of anger for the fake fg?

    we got burned, but you don’t compound the problem by attempting a trick play of our own to get them back. this isn’t schoolyard football. that gave the rams a 9 point lead and it was wrap city.

    smh

    oh – and it appears that wilson cannot see down the field in the pocket. i wonder what he is telling the coaches when they are looking at the photos on the sideline and there are open receivers that he didn’t throw to. i remember seeing flynn walk away from one of their mini-huddles with his head down.

  24. pope411 says:

    It’s OK, I am having a fun season just enjoying half the team.

  25. I have noticed that about Flynn also– he seems disinterested on the sidelines and doesn’t seem to join the huddles on the sidelines with the coaches when Wilson comes over. I see Portis standing there in his street clothes. Maybe the attitude is the problem. Pete wants guys that are excited to be there. Flynn has 8 million reasons to be engaged on game day….

  26. Stranger by the minute. Maybe PC doesn’t like Flynn’s brand of deodorant?

  27. Chuck wrote, “Well, sounds like we don’t have to worry about Cable leaving to be named HC. He’ll get to stay in Seattle and get that title within the next year or so.”

    Best Seahawk idea I’ve head all year!

  28. jchawks08 says:

    It really does seem simple to me as well. You can’t hit what you can’t see. Just a reasonable educated guess, but I’m going to assume our Starting OL including TE’s goes about 6’4 1/2 on average. I’ll also venture to say that most opposing DL’s go about 6’2 on average. What are people not getting? Wilson cannot see over the line. He’s smart, throws a fastball, accurate, is as mobile as any QB out there, but can’t freakin’ see over the line!! It’s not rocket science people. In fact its pretty basic physics.
    Ugh, just a complete epic fail all-around on the QB front by the Carroll regime. With everything else about this team being so amazing, how can the most important position on the field continue to be a huge disaster.. Sure lookin’ forward to that 10am East Coast game coming up!!

  29. I’m gonna repost what I said earlier but without 90 percent fury.

    Pete Carroll is an absolute joke, and has no business being a head coach in this league. He’s blatantly lying to us about the situation with Flynn, which hopefully the league punishes him for. I, for one, would love to see John Schneider continue his personnel moves, stay the GM, and fire Carroll and Bevell. I then think Cable should take the reigns as head coach on an interim basis, see how the season pans out, and maybe make him the head coach for next season.

    I do not care how great our running game is if there’s nothing going on in the red zone. Run, run, pass, punt is really getting tiresome. I also think the roots of my extreme frustration come from me knowing for a fact, that if this team even had a BAD passing offense, there would be 3-4 wins on the slate, instead of what should be a 1-3 record because of a blown call by the officiating crew. Trust me, a bad passing offense would be an immense upgrade over that pile of crap Wilson puts on the field each week. Seattle seahawks have one of the best defenses and running back tandems in the NFL, yet they’re lucky to be 2-2.

    To think anything other than what I’m saying is naïve at best. This team is going to lose to the niners and patriots at home, and with any luck Carroll gets booed off the field, then him and Bevell pack up their offices, and leave. He’s satisfied with mediocrity, and that’s not getting this team anywhere. Mora got fired for doing, what I think was a better job with harder schedules and weaker players.

  30. ryanryan says:

    @rodman – i didn’t mean he looked disinterested, he looked disgusted…as in, “i saw the read in real time, i don’t need to see what rw missed in the pictures.” i mean, what is he supposed to say in those huddles? “yep – you should have thrown it to THAT guy…the one who is OPEN.”

    flynn doesn’t strike me as a guy with a bad attitude – OR BAD ELBOW.

  31. mojjonation says:

    One of two things are going on here. Either Pete is deceiving the league by not disclosing an injury properly (gee there’s that undisciplined coach thing again with a fine to follow). Or is he deceiving the fanbase by making excuses for not going with the other QB. And if Flynn was OK on September 20th, how is he not OK now? It not as if he got knocked around in a game or something.

    Honestly, ou could run for 200 yards a game, but if the other team has a bend but don’t break defense and gives up field goals while their own offense scores touchdowns, there will be no going to the playoffs. Sorry, but when we don’t even have a game manager under center, a punishing ground game and the best first and second down defense will mean nothing.

  32. tchristensen says:

    Carroll stating Flynn is injured ins a ruse. And what;s the point? When the team ends up 4-12 Carroll can blame o it on Flynn being injured and having to go with a 5′ 10″ rookie QB for most of the year. Why all the BS from Carroll? It’s past the point of being old.

  33. Jesus there’s a lot of panic and sky is falling rhetoric raining down today after a 2-2 start to the season. Were people expecting 13 wins this year?

    Yes, we lost a game we could have won – but, it happens, all the time, to plenty of other teams around the league (the Pats and Giants are 2-2, Pitt is 1-2, there are other examples). It is not the end of the world. The level of histrionics and overreactions around here is way over the top given where we are.

    The Rams are not the patsies they used to be, and neither are the Cardinals. Both of these road games came down to the final drive/play. Things are not that f-ing bad.

    Yes, right now, the offense and the quarterback play are not on the level of our defense. It took some time to get our defense to where it is; and it’s a big deal that they’re there now. I’m bummed about the loss too, but we’ve shown we can hang with and beat good teams this year; but, our margin of error is small – I expect a season of tough games. The team is still, in the big picture, moving in the right direction.

  34. “I can’t believe I’m saying this because I’ve been a big PC supporter. It’s time to point the finger at the HC and hold him accountable for 3 straight losing seasons.”

    OK if we at least see if we have a third straight losing season first . . . ..

  35. tchristensen says:

    I think it’s “safe” to assume there will be a third straight losing season!

  36. Hammajamma says:

    I kind of like it when the friendly folks here send out a polite “hello, people,” which kind of reminds me of an incredulous teenage valley girl rolling her eyes. I’m also partial to those who calmly explain how it’s “not rocket science.” My father was actually a rocket scientist, so I think I’ve got that concept covered too.

    Oh, the cursed humanity of it all. Just makes me drool expletives all over myself. I will not be able to sleep until PC and Hugh Millen throw down in the ring of fire…

  37. arthurb says:

    I’d love to see better offensive production and agree that perhaps Wilson’t not ready. Considering how anemic the passing game is, having him sit and testing Flynn can’t be worse.

    But a few thoughts:

    Building a great team takes time. How long did it take Johnson to put all the pieces in place at Dallas? Three or four years, I think.

    As far as rookie QBs, what was Manning’s first year like? How about Brees? I’m not comparing Wilson to those two, just making the point that sometimes it takes a little time to mature. Time will tell.

    Even though the team’s not winning the close ones yet, they’re not getting blown out like they were two years ago. The games are competitive and within reach.

    The last year of Holmgren and first year of Mora were unbearable. To see what Carroll’s done in just two season is pretty impressive. We’re not too far away from being one of the elite teams.

  38. Audible says:

    jawpeace,

    yes, you’re right…. even some of the better posters of the past have turned into idiots…

    Two losses, in close games, and the sky falling…get f*$k#@%g real.

    1. Several of the said idiots are blaming RW for at least 2 picks that were absolutely NOT his fault. And, idiots, while you’re at it, why not blame him for missed field goals and meathead’s unnecessary roughness penalties.

    2. Flynn is obviously a back-up caliber QB, just like Whitehurst but with less physical talent and less hair.

    If he could do better than RW, he would have won the job. This explains why other teams didn’t want him, including his QB desperate former coach in Miami.

    How not to be an idiot?! Be happy the team is improving, and if you can’t do that, take up another sport. I’ll help you. Here, go play some f*$k#@%g sodoku:

    http://www.sudokukingdom.com/

  39. mojjonation says:

    Sudoku is a sport?

  40. The Seahawks were 2-2 in 2005 and finished 13-3 and went to the Super Bowl. We haven’t even started yet, folks!

  41. There’s no panic or “sky is falling” here. I am a Seahawks fan. I’m used to sucking.

    How is it that Flynn is hurt and there’s no 3rd QB on the active roster? You’d think if the back-up was hurt that they’d have another guy ready on game day. I’m insulted by someone thinking I’m too stupid not to have the ability to critically think about this one.

  42. jchawks08 says:

    Wait, I’m confused, I thought we were calling for RW’s job, not Pete’s? Amazing how the tide turn on these blogs sometimes. For all the glass is 1/2 full guys talking about our 2-2 record as a positive, kindly remember that we SHOULD be 1-3. We’re not, but we should be. Don’t deny that fact.
    Audible, I think you’re way off base.
    It’s been mentioned numerous times and to be honest I don’t know how it’s not obvious to you. RW went against the very basic of basic defenses in the preseason. So did Flynn, yes, but RW excelled vs. 3rd and 4th string vanilla basic defenses. I believe it’s also been mentioned around 1 million times, that the coach in Miami is not calling the personnel shots. You must not have been present the millioin times that’s been mentioned.
    Fun fact, Flynn is 2-0 as a starter in the NFL. Oh, he also has the Packers record for passing yards and touchdowns in a single game. It’s only the Green Bay Packers, yea I know. *sarcasm*

    Sorry, I’m no longer content with .500 +/- 1. As also has been mentioned numerous times, our current QB is holding back this deep-into-the-playoffs caliber team. We got the D. We got the ST. We got the RB’s. We got the OL (mostly). ANnnnnnd. We got a dang rookie QB. Siiiggghh…

  43. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    I’ll be honest, if this ridiculous charade continues all season, I want Pete Carroll fired. It’s a shame, because he’s a great talent evaluator, but his continuous misevaluations on QBs is actively destroying our chances to compete.

  44. bbnate420 says:

    jawpiece, I TOTALLY agree with you. It’s almost to the point that I’m going to stop reading the comments after a loss. If it’s alcohol and anger/frustration the day of the game, I understand that. But the same comments are flowing today. Even people like Chuck that were level-headed in the past, not that I didn’t disagree a lot, have now gone off the rails. Stating there speculations as if they are fact. Sad.

    Audible, very funny post. Insightful as well. :-)

    For people who didn’t understand, PC was saying that Flynn could’ve come in and played the rest of the game if RW was hurt, but that he could not throw enough day after day to prepare to start! Mike Rob wasn’t the 2nd string QB. You can disagree with the reasoning, but he wasn’t saying that Mike Rob was ever the backup. As far as lying, I don’t know if he is or not about Flynn’s elbow. I don’t care either. ALL coaches are liars. All people are liars, if you want to get technical. They don’t want to give opponents more info than they have to. Grow up and deal with it.

  45. RDPoulsbo says:

    Another problem I have with this answer is how weak it makes PC look. If he’s going to stick with Wilson, he should have straight up said he still has confidence in him and they need to reevaluate their approach to make him successful or something along those lines. Anything but they can’t go with Flynn because he’s injured (an out of the blue declaration). Now he’s damning his starter with faint praise and hiding behind a statement that on it’s face is not believable.

  46. Hammajamma says:

    RADEoN,

    Please accept this contrary comment from one of the naïve. Mora did nothing here but prove he can’t handle the microphone and he’s alienating half the UCLA campus with a fake tough guy approach.

    Pete’s a different kind of guy, to be sure. But Mora is not in his league.

  47. Mr. “level headed” better/smarter than everyone else guy throws in the “grow up and deal with it” comment. Nice.

    Everyone lies, I know this, but not that blatantly stupid of a lie. You don’t say a guy is ready one week and then the next week he’s somehow “still” hurt.

  48. freedom_X says:

    I also think Carroll is being weasel-like in this statement. I personally would have preferred him (from the coaching perspective) to declare Russell Wilson his man for the foreseeable future.

    Whether I agree with that decision or not, it would at least demonstrate that Carroll really did have a well thought out plan for this, and is sticking with it. If he hedges, it makes it feel like the Wilson decision was just a gut feeling roll of the dice, which is no way to pick a starting QB.

    If he has convictions and a true strategy for this, Carroll needs to stick to his guns and go with it, not worrying about criticism. That he’s weaseling on this, putting up a spurious (IMHO) excuse, makes me think he made a slipshod decision and it’s getting exposed.

  49. Hamma – For as much as people want to hate Mora, he was two games under .500 as an NFL head coach. Isn’t that about where Mr. Liar is too? At least Mora took a team to within 1 game of a Super Bowl, has the Liar done that in more seasons?

  50. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    RADEoN, excellent points. This downright bizarre handling of the QB situation that defies all reasonable logic is going to quickly drop Carroll’s popularity like a rock. How much of this nonsense can go on before the dam bursts? 5-11 with this same formula, an elite defense and explosive rushing game, only to keep losing because our overmatched munchkin QB can’t even make all the throws required to be an NFL QB?

  51. bbnate420 says:

    jchawks08, you got 2 “facts” wrong. Flynn is 1-1 as a starter. He lost to NE. And that we should be 1-3 is hardly a fact. The final play was a judgement call. You must not have seen the new angles of the play of know the rules regarding a simultaneous catch. I’m not saying that it definitely should’ve been a TD, but it was far from an obvious interception as well. The Hawks had bad calls against them as well. GB’s TD drive would’ve stalled if not for a BS pass interference call. You can’t just complain about bad calls on one side and ignore all of them on the other. Not to mention all the holding that went uncalled by GB in the 2nd half.

    Wow, this game even brought ACIB out of the woodwork. That’s enough to bench RW for alone. ;-)

    More literary diarrhea from RADEoN. No surprise. I’m sure you know much more about coaching and assembling a team than PC. That’s why he gets paid 7 mil a year and you’re an armchair GM/coach. And a bad one at that!

  52. twillis says:

    What is concerning is the lack of offense. The record is what it is, but both of the wins were less-than-convincing on the offensive side (GB was a gift and Dallas was on the backs of special teams and the D). Perhaps this is glass-half-empty, but this doesn’t feel like a team that is close to 4-0, but rather a team that is a questionable call and average D/ST play away from 0-4. I don’t think you build for a deep run into the playoffs by having a team where the O delivers a good drive or two and then does nothing until a desperation drive as time runs out. Sure, you’ll win some, but you’ll loose some too. Without a credible passing game, they have absolutely no margin for error in other aspects of the game (and further, the team still continues to make it’s job harder with the massively f%$king stupid pre-snap and personal foul penalties). Does anyone believe that the Hawks team of the first four weeks could pull out a game where the D and ST have a bad day?

    The angst is compounded by the fact that for the first time in a long time, pretty much everything but the passing game looks to be firing on all cylinders.

    It’s early and 2-2 is not the end of the world, but how much longer do you struggle before you make a change? Time will tell, but 0-3 or 1-2 is a distinct possibility over the next three games with this offense.

    Not that you can take what PC says to the bank, but I believe he said at one point that Flynn didn’t “loose” the job. It’s not clear to me that the decision didn’t come down to a gut feeling and hope that they could play the rook and get him up the curve fast enough.

    As far as Flynn goes, I think the jury is still out. Maybe I’m misremembering things, but I thought Philbin didn’t have the personnel pull in Miami. Further, a similar argument can be made about Wilson — if he’s a franchise QB, why did he fall into the mid-3rd?

    Not that any of that matters where the team is now. At some point, you have to throw the backup in there. As others have pointed out, you can’t get any worse than 32nd.

    tw

  53. SandpointHawk says:

    The real question is what beat reporter is going to get a quote from Flynn this week? Boy he sure has been painted into a nasty corner…

  54. RDPoulsbo says:

    Just so I’m clear, I’m not one of those calling for PC’s head. What I am criticizing is his handling of the whole QB approach, much like I was during the preseason. It’s one thing to have a bottom 10 passing attack. Even that could arguably have made this team 4-0. Instead, we’re looking at a passing game that’s barely producing more than the worst passing offense in Seahawks history. These are Kelly Stouffer numbers and it’s unacceptable under any circumstances. RW is easily better than Stouffer and they need play like it. That includes better playycalling, gameplanning with what’s under RW’s control. It’s an entire team effort from top-down that’s producing that kind of impotence.

  55. Wasn’t Joe Montana a 3rd round pick?

  56. jchawks08 says:

    lol thanks bbnate. You’re right, lost by 4. Crap.
    I still stand by my SHOULD be 1-3 comment though. Angles, schmangles, that was a pick. There’s like 6 people on the planet that don’t think it was. Trust me, 2-2 is miles better than 1-3, I was, as the saying goes, jus’ sayin.

  57. bbnate420 says:

    BobbyK, so I’m Mr. “level headed” now? Just like Mr. Happy was switched to Mr. Liar because he did something you didn’t like? Where did I say I was smarter or better than everyone else? Please quote. I am able to generally read and comprehend posts though. How is, “grow up and deal with it”, not level headed? I think it’s very level headed to accept things you cannot change and not to disparage others for the same things you do yourself. You may disagree with the statement, that doesn’t make it hyperbolic. You’re the one that went from being a PC supporter to flipping on him and calling him Mr. Liar because of one game and one statement. Not me.

  58. Hammajamma says:

    BobbyK,

    Here’s what I would say about Mora as a head coach. In ATL, where he inherited a talented roster and got the benefit of Vick’s best play, he went 11-5, 8-8, 7-9, then ran his mouth about UW and got fired. That’s a trendline going down. Nothing he did in Seattle changed that and his lack of, shall we say, gravitas, along with the opportunity to land PC, lead to his dismissal.

    You have to acknowledge that Seattle is trending upward, has quickly built an incredible defense, and shows promise. However you come down on the QB situation, their bodies of work as head coaches don’t really compare. As people and CEO’s I don’t see them the same class.

  59. bbnate420 says:

    You’re welcome, jchawks08. I like a lot of your comments. You’re entitled to think that GB should’ve won the game I was just saying it’s not an objective fact. I know more than 6 people that think it was probably a simultaneous catch. I bet there are more than six on this blog.

  60. DanielleMND says:

    RADEoN: sure, let’s fire Carroll a month into year 3 of a total rebuild project. A month into year 3 of Holmgren’s rebuiild, we were 2-2, and a lot of fans thought he’d made a mistake in trading for Hasselbeck and thought Dilfer was the better long term answer. I even remember some fans thinking Holmgren needed to go.

  61. bbnate420 says:

    Hammajamma, very good points. I know a number of people mentioned Mora’s inheritance of talent and downward trend while he was here. I think BobbyK may have even been one of them, although I’m not going to search through reams of posts to confirm this.

  62. chuck_easton says:

    bbnate,

    I’m still level-headed. What I cannot tolerate is the fact that Pete Carroll has built the number 2 defense in the league. Pete Carroll has the best running attack in the NFL. But Pete Carroll can’t see that the rookie QB is not producing enough to give the team a chance at a winning record, let alone a play-off birth.

    How often does a team produce a defense of this calibre? This year is the time to take the next step. Unfortunately we are playing the games with one hand tied behind our backs because Wilson isn’t ready yet.

    If the answer is, we are throwing the season to get ready for next year, by all means just come out and say it. At least we can all get behind the ‘wait till next year approach’.

    But to tell us that the other QB, the one that didn’t do anything to lose the job, is now suddenly hurt and that is why we still have to play the rookie is being misleading at best, and outright lieing to the fan base at worst.

  63. I know some of you guys have a lot invested in this, but this “hate Carroll” stuff is just downright stupid. Flynn can be suited up and can be our best option if something happens to Wilson without being totally fit to start. If Flynn is nursing an elbow and can throw 15 passes, and Wilson goes down, do you want him or Portis? You want Flynn. But if it’s a risk to start Flynn, both for his arm and for the team, and you feel okay about Wilson, you start Wilson. But no. Pete has to be lying. Pete has suddenly become the worst coach in the league. You have no #2 defense without Carroll. Without Carroll, Red Bryant is a backup inside tackle somewhere, Chris Clemons is out of the league, Richard Sherman is on somebody’s practice squad, Brandon Browner is still in Canada. But luckily you’ve still got Lofa Tatupu on IR.

  64. Hammajamma says:

    Tatupu on IR. That is damn funny.

  65. Speaking of the Defense— Brandon Mebane was an animal on Sunday. One of the most dominant DT performances since the Tez was playing…

  66. DanielleMND says:

    “Unfortunately we are playing the games with one hand tied behind our backs because Wilson isn’t ready yet.”

    It seemed in pre-season, they were willing to let Wilson get in a good throwing rhythm and throw it around more. Yes, he was going against vanilla defenses, but maybe it’s the conservative play calling now that’s holding him back.

  67. Oh… and we have twelve games left, but we’re guaranteed a losing season, eh? Good, I guess that means you won’t be following the Hawks anymore.

  68. I was thinking All-Pro for Mebane based on that performance, too.

  69. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Flynn is fine Pete is using his typical double-speak, rambling style of talking and it is confusing some, but it seems clear that Flynn is healthy but he wants to stick with his 3rd round selection because he is bound and determined to prove to everyone that he wasn’t wrong by going with Wilson this year.

    Meh. Pete’s committed to his ticket on the Titanic, if he wants to drown then so be it.

  70. Danielle: That’s easy for you to say, since in hind sight it paid off.

    Carroll is leading an undisciplined team into the promised land of losing. Gus Bradley also tooled this defense up, and it’s his defensive coordination that is keeping the team afloat.

    He’s year 3 into his rebuilding phase, yet the offensive line still cannot pass block, the QB play is atrocious, and the defense STILL cannot get off the field on third down.

    You keep talking about the rookie QB, but it’s not really like that anymore with rookie quarterbacks… they’re thrown into the fire and have been succeeding. Ben Roethlisberger went 13-0 in 2004 stepping in for Tommy Maddox. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Mark Sanchez (for his first few seasons), Matthew Stafford, Cam Newton, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Andy Dalton, just off the top of my head, were able to come in and play well enough. Why is RW so different? Could it be that I’m actually right, and RW isn’t the answer at QB?

    Well, I mean I could be wrong… You guys think Flynn sucks, Charlie Whitehurst was just godawful, and RW definitely sucks, so by the standards here, Carroll (who I’m also criticizing), sucks at picking quarterbacks. And managing a disciplined team.

    PETE CARROLL SUCKS. HE IS THE WORST COACH IN THE NFL. THE PENALTIES SAY THAT. STARTING A CONVERTED DT AT AN OL POSITION SAYS THAT. THE TERRIBLE OFFENSE SAYS THAT. HIS CAREER OF LOSING RECORDS SAYS THAT.

    His methodology isn’t working. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, you don’t see Tomlin, the Harbaugh brothers, Tom Coughlin or Bill Belichick employing rah rah coaching techniques, posting on twitter or dancing and getting “all jacked up” on the sidelines. That’s for high school and college coaches, not the NFL.

  71. abqhwkfn says:

    WOW.. this place has fallen apart.. Reality is this team is not a finished product and still very young. I dont think anyone had any ambitions of winning a superbowl with a rookie qb.. And i have never heard of a rookie qb being trashed and labeled a failure after 4 games.. 2 of which he won and a third lost by a wr dropping a would be winning td pass. I think RW has played at about the level a rookie qb typically plays. I know there are recent exceptions with Cam and RG3. I found myself calling for Flynn last night as well. But even with Flynn I dont think this team is much better then 9-7, 8-8 or 7-9 depending on which way the ball bounces.

  72. bbnate420 says:

    Snappa, AHHHAHAHAHHA. Very nice. :-)

    Chuck, your comments the past few days don’t seem level-headed to me. They seem reactionary and hyperbolic. Just my opinion. You certainly don’t have to agree. I think we are playing for next year to some extent. He knows we need to let RW take his lumps sometime. I’m fine with that if they are convinced that he is the QBOTF. His job is riding on it. PC could go 8-8 this year and have the same record as Holmgren his first 3 years here. Holmgren then went 8-8 in his fourth. He had to make the playoffs in his fifth year to keep his job. I think PC gets until the end of his 4th year.

    Some of you act like RW is the worst QB in the league. He has a higher QB rating than Tannehill or Weeden. His QB rating is only 2 points lower than Luck’s. It would be higher if you took away one of the 2 ints that weren’t his fault against the Lambs. I’ll only take away one because of the one he had against GB if not for the roughing the passer call. I’m not saying that he is playing great. He was doing a decent job at what was asked of him before the Lambs game. He had a 86 passer rating. He had a bad game. He’s a rookie. Step back from the ledge. A lot of players helped him have that bad game against the Lambs as well.

  73. abqhwkfn says:

    Radeon could be that your right.. I just dont think the sample is large enough to make that determination.

  74. Dukeshire says:

    RADEoN – If this were a matter of motivation, then your point about rah rah, would be relevant. But this team’s issues, and his greatest failing as Seattle’s HC, has been the QB position. Let’s not confuse the two. The rest of this team is in a vastly better position since he took over. From moral to talent to play on the field, aside from the most important position in team sports: QB.

  75. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Oh my GOD, after listening to that presser, I want Carroll fired. He’s continuing to start Tarvaris Wilson even though Flynn is healthy.

  76. This comment is directed towards audilbe who claims some of us are idiots. Look at the last int, look where Baldwin is at before the throw. 2-2 is not that bad, 0-2 in the division with the niners and AZ and one of the losses is to the Rams, it might be panic time. So in order for my to be happy that are team is improving, I’ll have to ignore the fact that we are wasting top caliber rushing, defense and special teams (which are always so easy to have the three rolling at the same time) so we can watch a rookie learn on the fly who can’t see over his own linemens shoulder pabs. Pure genius.

  77. DanielleMND says:

    “Danielle: That’s easy for you to say, since in hind sight it paid off.”

    We didn’t become a good team until Holmgren’s fifth year. I think Carroll should get at least four.

    “PETE CARROLL SUCKS. HE IS THE WORST COACH IN THE NFL.”

    The #1 rushing offense and a highly ranked defense say otherwise.

  78. “He’s year 3 into his rebuilding phase, yet the offensive line still cannot pass block, the QB play is atrocious, and the defense STILL cannot get off the field on third down.”

    If you’re complaining about PC’s development of our top-5 defense too – – then, I’m never going to convince you, and it becomes not worth the effort to try.

    The point that Seattle is 32nd out of 32 teams in passing becomes a little less convincing when you realize that SF is 30th out of 32 in passing, and that through 4 weeks, our RB is leading the league in rushing . . . .

  79. bbnate420 says:

    RADEoN, your verbal diarrhea knows no bounds, does it? You know you can use this new thing called Google to look up facts right? You don’t have to spout horsespit regardless of the actual data. Dalton’s rookie QB rating was 7 points higher than RW’s, and RW has ONLY PLAYED 4 GAMES. Flacco’s was the same. Bradford’s was 3 points higher. Matthew Stafford’s was 61, 12 points LOWER. Sanchez’s rating was 63, 10 points lower. Hell, his rating is 69.6 in this his 4th season. Freeman’s rating was 59.8. His rating in his 4th year is only 2 points higher than RW’s. He is right in the middle of these QBs and the rookie QBs that are starting this year. Nowhere close to the worst as you keep repeating. This is why many others and myself don’t put any stock into your posts. You just spout off inaccuracies and exaggerations like a broken water main.

  80. chuck_easton says:

    bbnate,

    We will have to agree to disagree on this one. This is the best team Seattle has assembled in quite some time.

    It is frustrating to watch it go down the tubes because of the play at QB.

    But, I’ve been a fan of the Seahawks for 34 years and I’ve never quit on them even in those oh so bad 90’s. So this won’t get me to quit on them now.

  81. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    bbnate420, you’re the one spewing verbal diarrhea. Literally using a joke stat like QB rating to defend Wilson’s horrible play?

  82. “But this team’s issues, and his greatest failing as Seattle’s HC, has been the QB position. Let’s not confuse the two. The rest of this team is in a vastly better position since he took over. From moral to talent to play on the field, aside from the most important position in team sports: QB.”

    I agree with all of that – except that 4 games in to RW’s rookie season is too early to deem the whole thing a failing. All is not lost at 2-2; if RW’s play goes into a downward spiral on the field, and we’re sitting at 2-10, looking at a lost season, then I’ll withdraw the argument.

    I don’t blame Carroll for picking up TJ in the strike-shortened season, or taking a low-risk flyer on CW. We were never in a position to get a can’t-miss QB in the draft; or to realistically sign a can’t-miss veteran like Manning. Filling the QB position with a great QB is easier said than done.

  83. “But, I’ve been a fan of the Seahawks for 34 years and I’ve never quit on them even in those oh so bad 90′s. So this won’t get me to quit on them now.”

    Same here . . . good to remember in times like these, when diehard fans like most of us who frequent this blog have a legitimate disagreement.

    Doesn’t mean the person you’re having a venting argument with is an idiot.

    If that damn FG kicker wasn’t Capt. America yesterday, we’d all be in a better mood . . .

  84. I dont want Carrol fired-yet. Im still hoping he pulls his head out.

    Im just pissed we have the same old problems–crappy o-line, no WR’s who can perform, TONS of penalties (STUPID ones!), sloppy play, and inexcuseable coaching decisions like the onside kick.

    Carrol is running the D okay, but as for the offense–wow. Just wow. I dont see how anyone can say Carrol is doing a good job as HC on offense right now, or for the last three years.

    I really could care less if he starts wilson or Flynn. I dont think Bevell can hack it in the NFL, and his red-zone playcalling will still suck goat nards with Flynn in there. And I dont believe the ZBS will ever work–Ive long said this, and despite trying desperately to buy in to Cable, Im pretty much over it: the verdict is in, the ZBS sucks, our guys cant run it, and Cable isnt fixing our line problem.

  85. NWPoseidon says:

    Hmmm these guys think a 2-2 team will make the Super Bowl http://m.nfl.com/news/0ap1000000068412/

    The 2001 Patriots were 5-5 and won the SB in Brady’s first year when he threw 18-12 TD-INT

    The 2005 Steelers were 7-5 coming off a 3 game losing streak before putting it all together with a young Big Ben to win the SB

    The 1988 49ers were 6-5 before figuring things out and winnin the SB

    These are just a few bad starting teams and do not even include the 9-7 Rams that won. Why is the sky falling again? This is PCs beginning of year 3 and we are thinking of play offs is a good thing. Lets not jump to conclusions.

  86. pabuwal says:

    1991-1994 (21-43)
    2008-2011 (23-41)

    Only 2 times in franchise history the team has had 4 straight losing seasons. Folks, if you have stuck with the team after the past 4 years you just stuck with the team through one of its worst 4 years in franchise history.

    And the one high point (2010 playoffs) could have easily set the franchise back a few years. Has anyone seen the draft choices between numbers 4 and 12 in the First Round and compared them with who the Seahawks actually picked?

  87. pdway–Exactly. I watched every damned game that was televised in 1992, and I didnt give up then, and I wont now. But Im not gonna drink the Kool-Aid when the same problems show up every single week. I hate that our offense eerily resembles the 1992’s squad.

    Dave Wyman says it wasnt Flores fault, that the team had no talent on offense outside the RB position. Well, the line could run block but not pass pro; sound familiar?!

    Which is why I blame Bevell whole-heartedly for this mess. Carrol is on the hook for the whole offense and the penalties, thats for damned sure. And he’s the one who hired Cable and gave him those picks he wasted on Carp and Moffit, never mind the mounting debacle that is Okung the gimpy. And he’s the one who hired that douche Darrel Bevell.

  88. bbnate420 says:

    pdway, well said.

    Chuck, I definitely agree that it is frustrating. I want them to win now. More importantly, I want them to really compete for a SB in the next few years. If RW gives us the best chance of that, I’m willing to miss the playoffs this year to allow him to grow. Time will tell. If anyone knows for sure, as some seem to know RW is a definite bust and we are going to have a losing season, then they should be in Vegas and not wasting their time on here. That nice opening drive against the Lambs made the next 55 minutes or so even more disappointing. I don’t have coaches tape so I can’t say for sure, but I don’t think this receiving core is providing a lot of help. Not to say that RW hasn’t missed a number of passes. I think this receiving core is sub-par if Baldwin isn’t playing to his potential. He has been bad so far. Hoepfully, they address WR in the off-season regardless of who the QB in 2013 is.

    ACIB, who’s watching your bridge while you post? Yes, QB rating is a joke stat. LOL. No where near as objective or accurate as your ramblings. I understand that QB rating doesn’t tell the whole picture, but it’s better than anything else that is at least somewhat objective.

  89. Pabs–even if we’d had the third pick in the draft, they still might have given the pick to Cable and he’d have picked that fatass loser Carpenter. Then we’d really be pissed! ;p

  90. pdway–We have, hands down, the youngest, most talented Defensive roster in the NFL. I expect better third down play, especially in key situations. I blame Carrol and Bradley for that. I expect our D to be awesome, and they are not regularly awesome right now, despite the ridiculous talent, as I said.

  91. kinger12 says:

    Sack the Beaver – that OC has got to go.
    He calls a terrible game. He called a year of terrible games last year and he is off to the same crappy start this year. 7-9 anybody…
    And whoever thought getting one on Fisher/Rams by going with a trick onside kick after halftime – that was idiot central! The upside on that was SO marginal. The only way that looks good is if you get a TD and from our impotent offence that ain’t happening. We didn’t we lost the ball and gave them a really short field.
    Our D is number 2, our special teams is in the top 10, and a running game that is probably number 1 or 2. and we are 2-2…. the math is simple – beaver, pack your bags!

  92. bbnate420 says:

    Penalties are a very legitimate criticism of PC. They only had 5 on Sunday, but some of them were killers. Having Cable and Norton as the heavies doesn’t seem to work. PC needs to start benching people to get the message across. My vote goes for Breno. Have him sit a week and think about it. He makes the same idiotic penalties he did in his first few starts. Time to learn to stop at the whistle.

    pabuwal, good point. I thought and said at the time that making the playoffs in 2010 hurt the rebuilding. I think we would’ve drafted 7th if we would’ve lost to the Lambs in week 17. I’m not totally sure. We could’ve had Aldon Smith, Locker, Ponder, or Gabbert if that was the case. Tyron Smith, Pouncey, or Solder if they were dead set on o-line. Even could’ve traded down and still got one of them.

    STTBM, Carp looked fine to me on Sunday. How about we give him until the end of his 2nd season to label him a fatass loser? Especially since he has no off-season in 2011 and is coming back from a major knee injury before anyone expected him to.

  93. akmac61 says:

    I’m bipolar but many of the “fans” here can put me to shame with their mood swings. A good offense takes more time to develop than the defense. A QB cannot win a game solely on his own, someone has to catch the ball too. Everything in RW’s history points to a man willing to work hard and improve, a winner by nature. This is a heck of a team that is staying close in every game. It only takes a small improvement to start making L’s into W’s with this kind of team.
    Anyone expecting a SB year immediately is not being realistic. Giving up after 2 losses is hardly supportive of the team. Second-guessing the coach is great fun, but there is no need for the venomous “he sucks” type comments.

  94. akmac61 says:

    And PC is as adept at double-talk as any politician, everyone knows that so why the big outrage now. Frankly, it looks like starting MF for one game might be reasonable if he is healthy. That would give RW the chance to take a step back and observe. If Flynn comes up strong, so be it.

  95. Dukeshire says:

    If nothing else comes out of all this, hopefull people will be able to understand the difference between second half preseason defenses and regular season defences.

  96. “pdway–We have, hands down, the youngest, most talented Defensive roster in the NFL. I expect better third down play, especially in key situations. I blame Carrol and Bradley for that. I expect our D to be awesome, and they are not regularly awesome right now, despite the ridiculous talent, as I said.”

    Yeah, but they’re playing against NFL players too. We’re doing pretty damn well. only 12 points by the Packers. And the Rams, well, if their kicker doesn’t have literally the best kicking day in the history of the league, then they get 13 points (or 9 if we don’t fall for the fake FG). We can always get better, but, they’re playing well enough to be the D on a super bowl type team.

  97. DanielleMND says:

    “If that damn FG kicker wasn’t Capt. America yesterday, we’d all be in a better mood”

    Indeed. I’m not one to praise a division rival, but, damn, that kid has a hell of a leg. It won’t shock me if he breaks the record for longest FG at some point.

  98. Hm. This team could be 0-16 or 16-0 and I’d still be calling for a change at quarterbacks. I want to see points scored to compliment the defense. This d could be compared to the 2000 ravens if this o could do anything.

  99. PugetHawk says:

    Legatron definitely made some impressive kicks. Carroll is contradicting himself, and when you have a top tier defense and running game, the production by the quarterback should be that much better. Play-action means something, but the receivers are underachieving, the play=calling is lack-luster, and the o-line continues to be a ? (although I did like that left side with Carp at Guard).

    There are a lot of different arguments and view points on here, as well as frustration, but I don’t think anyone would disagree that Pete Carroll better step up and rally this team over the next couple weeks. A good coach would, and he feels he is one, so lets see what he’s got when the times get tough. If Flynn is the guy then put the ego down and win with him, and if not then just say so…but don’t second guess and contradict yourself and insult everyone’s intelligence. I like Pete, more than I thought I would when he was hired, but stay classy.

  100. DanielleMND says:

    “This team could be 0-16 or 16-0 and I’d still be calling for a change at quarterbacks.”

    So 16-0 teams should bench their starting QB going into the playoffs? Really?

  101. jawpeace says:

    Snappa and BBnate You guys get it, Pete said that Flynn could not take all the reps as a starter would need to during the week. It is amazing how many are calling Pete a liar… No lie here by Pete. Just haters who need to quit being fake Hawk fans and go back to their 49ers site.

    What is a real head scratcher is at the beginning of the season many said a 2 and 2 start would be good. Beating Rams and Cards and probably loosing to Boys and Packers. Were still 2 and 2 the wins and loses were opposite of what most predicted. And the world is ending?

    Snappa you forget in the no Pete world are starting corners are Wilson, Jennings, and Tru. And Aaron Curry is still running the wrong plays and ACisbust has had a brain annerisym screaming at the TV. Thinking about it more maybe ACisbust already had one.

  102. jchawks08 says:

    Last comment by Duke sums everything up. Man I’m constantly reminded why I don’t come here every day. Ya’ll drive me insane!

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