Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Penalties still an issue

Post by Eric Williams on Sep. 29, 2012 at 7:16 am with 51 Comments »
September 29, 2012 7:16 am
Seahawks offensive tackle Russell Okung blocks Arizona outside linebacker Sam Acho during an NFL football game Sunday, Sept. 9, 2012, in Glendale, Ariz. The Cardinals defeated the Seahawks 20-16.(AP Photo/Ross D. Franklin)

It’s a drill that youth football teams often execute at the end of practice – the offense going down the field in unison, 5 yards at a time, as the quarterback barks out signals to make sure no one goes offside.

That’s what Carroll had to resort to for Seattle’s offense this week, because that unit has totaled 13 pre-snap penalties this season – the second-most in the league, which I reported in my story today.

Last year during training camp, assistant head coach/offensive line coach Tom Cable made players run a lap every time they jumped offside in practice.

“It’s something extra there so we don’t do it in the game,” offensive tackle Breno Giacomini said. “As stupid and silly as it sounds, it works. Running didn’t work, so hopefully this will work.”

Russell Okung leads Seattle in false starts with four, followed by tight end Anthony McCoy with two.

Rookie quarterback Russell Wilson has been called for delay of game four times.
The Seahawks are second in the league in accepted penalties with 32.

Russell Wilson has been better than expected, and Seattle’s receivers are average, according to this report from the National Football Post: “People around the league have been very impressed with Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson. In fact, one NFC pro personnel director believes Wilson may be considerably better than he has shown. Why? He thinks Wilson’s receivers are average. The personnel director pointed out the Seahawks don’t have a true No. 1 receiver—instead they are playing with a 2, 3, 4 and 5. So in time, Wilson could really take off if he’s surrounded with the right players.”

Greg Bishop of the New York Times write about Seattle’s impressive secondary. Bishop: “Taller defensive backs had found their home. Carroll, never much for convention anyway, showed them clips of those old Raiders, what he wanted them to become. If the Seahawks’ secondary played other teams in basketball, Sherman said, they would go undefeated, “even with Earl on the court.” That was the kind of backfield Carroll sought.”

Clare Farnsworth of writes that linebacker K.J. Wright has elevated his game.

ESPN’s Mike Sando likes the Rams over Seattle, 13-10.

710 ESPN Seattle’s Brock Huard breaks down the fourth down play against Green Bay when Golden Tate dropped the one-handed catch in the end zone that was intended for Sidney Rice.

John Boyle of the Everett Herald talks with former Seahawks head coach Dennis Erickson, who says the Golden Tate catch brought back memories of his team’s late-game fiasco against the New York Jets, when quarterback Vinny Testaverde scored the winning touchdown despite never crossing the goal line.

Brian Burke, writing for the New York Times Fifth Down Blog, gives Seattle a 56 percent win chance against the Rams.

Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes that the Rams offensive line will face a tough task against Seattle’s defensive front.

Seattle radio station calls a Green Bay Packers fans, and pretends to be an employee of the NFL, telling him to stop whining about his team’s loss to Seattle. Check out the audio here.

Sam Borden of the New York Times talks with replacement official Jeff Sadorus, a former college official who has worked Seattle practices for the last three years, including the week after he officiated in the team’s season opener at Arizona. Here’s what Sadorus had to say about the treatment of replacement officials: “Everyone wanted perfection, but come on: the last guy who was perfect they nailed to a cross. And he wasn’t even an official.”

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 51
  1. FleaFlicker says:

    Eric, great link to the Huard video. Kind of long, but some pretty key take-aways from that penultimate drive:

    1. Wilson is learning each week
    2. O-Line actually can pass block when everybody’s on assignment
    3. Offensive play call was about perfect in that situation
    4. Tater Tot might not have the football intelligence to get to the next level – and may always remain a guy with “tremendous potential”
    5. A true #1 receiver doesn’t exist in Seattle (as pointed out in the National Football Post article).

    Somebody in the WR group needs to step it up and start to shine…or we need to spend some first round draft picks going forward.

  2. Dukeshire says:

    Pretty soon Cable’s going to start barking “get ‘em up!” and the line’s going to start running gassers at practice, like they were all 15 again. Dear god, false start isn’t that difficult to correct…

  3. confucious says:

    I’d say it is harder to correct if you are worried about getting beat by the outside speed rush. Okung.

  4. Dukeshire says:

    Although I agree with that, you simply have to be disciplined enough to stay on the count. I’d much rather see a lineman get beat, than jump.

  5. raymaines says:

    QB cadence has to be factored into the false start issue and maybe this is the down side of the prolonged QB competition but Come On Man!, this is regular season week four coming up. Get it together guys.

  6. raymaines says:

    Oh, and the Sandoman is wrong by the way.

    Seattle over St Louis 20-10

  7. montanamike2 says:

    I hope Bradford has the same “deer in the headlights” look as Rogers did in the first half of the monday fiasco. His o-line is in disaray and i hope we can exploit it. It’s not as easy to discount this as a fluke game
    since Tony Romo had that look the whole game, plus Arizona is playing lights out and getting some respect, so all of a sudden the season opener loss doesn’t seem so bad for a rookie qb in his first game at their home.

  8. It’s okay for Wilson to “learn” each week (which it is) but Tate will never have anything other than “potential” even though he caught both TD passes from the rookie last week? That doesn’t count for “production?” Maybe Tate should have dropped both passes so we could have lost? Then you could say he only has “potential.” I agree that it’s frustrating seeing him do some stupid things (like jump for the ball to Rice in the end zone on Monday). For having gone to Notre Dame, he’s not exactly the brightest bulb around, but he’s made key plays that has helped this team win both of its games. I’d hardly call that non-production.

  9. And, yes, Wilson is learning each week and I’m excited to see what he’s going to look like next year (I bet it’ll be night/day). But four delay of game penalties in three games is ridiculous. That’s on the QB. Nobody else. If the coaching staff is incompetent in getting the play in late, then the QB has a job to do… know the clock and call timeout if the coaches didn’t give him enough time to get the play off in time. That’s basic football expectations from a quarterback, kind of like getting the snap from center. Some things shouldn’t happen very often. We shouldn’t go through an entire season with more than 1-2 delay of game calls (even with a rookie), much less be on a pace to have over 22 of them.

  10. sluggo42 says:

    The radio call to the whiney GB fan was really funny, and truer than one would expect. They are the “kings of Cry”.

    I am totally sure that the Hawks are not lingering on the fudgepackers, and I will bet that they play with an extra high level of intensity against the Rams so they can tell the whole world to suck eggs.

    Hawks 35, Rams 3

  11. djbargelt says:

    Tate reminds me of TJ – Great athlete, a bit slow upstairs. Hopefully we make WR a priority next year. and man, do we need Baldwin healthy. Still think the jury is out on Rice, since he was held out of training camp. Perhaps my mid-season he will be in the groove?

  12. Hammajamma says:

    It’s refreshing to see we’re not blaming Wilson’s DOG issues on his size. All correctable stuff. With time, folks. Let it happen before you start breathing into a bag.

  13. montanamike2 says:

    I also feel that the chip on the hawks shoulders just got twice as big.
    we’re sharks that smell blood!

  14. iHateHarbaugh says:

    They won’t score 10, you meant 0 right?

  15. I’m trying to get on the Golden Tate bandwagon, and get officially off the Taterhead Critic Squad. He’s working his tail off to make plays. He also still makes rookie mistakes and he’s too experienced to keep doing that. After the GoldenGate play on Monday, he’s going to get a lot of attention over the next weeks and I think he’s going to step up and start showing some maturity. Its his time. But please, Tater, no more running wrong routes into the endzone.

  16. I’m a youth football coach and we do the same thing for dumb penalties – run a lap or make ‘em do push ups. There isn’t much else you can do.

  17. I’m not sold on Tate – he could have easily of been the goat for missing the 4th down pass that (seemed to be) intended for Rice.

    He’s another million dollar athlete with a 10 cent head. Our only hope is that with age and maturity he starts to clue in.

  18. The National Football Post writes some good stuff these days. Good insights on the Seahawks there. Its true, we don’t have a #1 WR, which is to say we don’t have a true split end other than Braylon Edwards. Tate is a flanker/slot receiver out of position at split end. Rice is a true flanker and a great one, but he needs a fast and physical SE to work off of. Finding that guy by 2013 could be the final piece of making this a championship team.

  19. montanamike2 says:

    I hope Wilson and Baldwin get some chemistry going, i think he’s a go on sunday.

  20. Montana, yes, Baldwin and Rice together should give Wilson a lot more to work with. They both produced more when on the field together last year, and had good games together against St Louis, Atlanta, Giants, Cin. This should help Wilson.

  21. Re: penalties…
    I’ll be okay with a few PI penalties on BB and Sherm and Kam, as long as we can stop the stupid offensive mistakes like false starts and offsides. No excuse for those, and I’ll be surprised if Okung doesn’t clean that up quick. I also won’t be surprised to see the next guy who false starts benched for a few plays by Coach Cable.

  22. Palerydr says:

    I agree Stevos the way to really get these guys attention is to yank them out of the game. Not playing is a sure way to get someone’s focus in order. I also can live with physical penalties but have a hard time accepting mental ones.

  23. FleaFlicker says:

    BobbyK: good points about Tate. I’m not hating on the guy, he’s a solid player. But I think we are all yearning for him to step up to the next level as a “True #1″. And you’re right: dude has made some clutch plays for us. But at the same time, provides us with a lot of head scratchers as well. Maybe he’s just slow to develop and in the coming games and seasons he will become the elite WR we desperately need.

  24. Palerydr says:

    Can’t say I hate Tate that’s too strong a word I can say I’m disappointed in his progress to date. He’s an exceptional athlete capable of making the explosive plays this team needs. In year 3 though he still makes stupid mistakes. As many have pointed out he needs to grow up NOW or he’ll be on another team next year. I’m not sure he will grow up anytime soon however.

  25. I don’t think Tate is a #1 or ever will be. But I think he’ll be fine/good.

  26. You don’t think that “growing up” as a player means helping your team win (like the 2 TDs he had on Monday)?

  27. Palerydr says:

    As I pointed out Bobby I praised him for making explosive plays. Yes he still needs to grow up and you can’t argue that. He needs to not make stupid decisions on the field and you can’t defend that. Those parts of his game have to change to a positive making his team mates better.

  28. FleaFlicker says:

    If you watch the Huard video, that 4th and 3 with 2:00 left, both Rice and Tate had a perfect match-up. Tate doesn’t cut inside like he’s supposed to and ends up batting a ball that was a likely TD to Rice. That’s a bit of the growing up Tate’s still got to do.

  29. orbeavhawk says:

    BK: In my reading about as much as I can find about OUR Team etc. somewhere recently I read something that helps me understand why RW has been getting so many “delay of game” calls – [kind of] it appears that part of Pete’s game plan is to use almost ALL of the game clock like he has been doing in order to give or “D” more rest and their “O” off of the field as long as possible. RW just has been cutting it too close………I was sure wondering WHY he would be getting those too, now I understand more why it could happen.


  30. Absolutely not. You have the clock in front of you. Period. You snap the ball before it gets to zero. I don’t care if you’re told to snap it late. Have you ever seen a QB call timeout at the end of the game to kick the potential game winning FG and have the clock run out on him? It doesn’t happen.

  31. Dukeshire says:

    In Indy, Manning ran nearly every play clock to 1 second, especially when they went no huddle. They also nearly never had delay of game penalties. Delay of game is a matter of uncertainty. Either you don’t know how much time is on the clock (never an excuse), or there is confusion regarding the play call, or some other matter of doubt. It comes down to the QB. Period. And in Wilson’s case, whatever the reason, I would chalk it up to his lack of NFL experience (playbook, presnap reads, ect…). If this becomes a lingering issue, that will be a real problem, but only time will tell.

  32. Dukeshire says:

    FleaFlicker – Tate gave up on his route, there. And sadly, it’s not the first time we’ve seen these “mental” lapses from him.

  33. Speaking of ‘deer in headlights’ look and Arod.
    I’ve always disliked him. smug, arrogant etc.
    Did you see him after that first play? He got up and did that little two finger boom signal towards our D.. Loved it when he was taking turf samples later on..

    If you missed Seahawks All Access & want to see field level highlights of the sacks go here.

    I edited their highlight package down to just the good stuff.

  34. Carlsonkid says:

    Tate was never drafted to be a 1 ; as I recall , we traded from 40 to 60 in the 2nd round and were glad he was still on the board .

    The guy made a highlight block against Dallas and is everyone’s darling and the next week he does what every receiver in the NFL is taught to do and receives venomous tweets and hate because of it .

    A productive late 2nd rounder struggles with routes and likes donuts a little too much . OK . Lets keep it in perspective and remember he’s getting enough flack from the rest off the league .

  35. HeinieHunter says:

    I’m not as down on Tate as some of you. He’s a gifted athelete and I think things came too east for him when he freelanced aound and got open early in his football career and even at ND. He never had to work hard on route running and timing until he turned pro. I still think he lacks dicipline and tends to revert back to that style in the heat of battle. For him to have real success he needs to be consistent, not flashy.
    I’m hoping that Baldwin and Wilson will get chemistry together. Baldwin could catch a lot of 3D passes this season. Stay healthy dude!

  36. Thanks for the link to the video, mocarob. Loved it. Hope Tate makes a lot more exciting catches. He may not run routes that well, but he’s got great hands.

  37. When I watch the play that Huard diagrams, I see that the DB who should be covering Tate anticipates the throw to Rice, so when the ball arrives, Rice has two DBs around him, while Tate has none. So while Tate may have been in the wrong spot, if Wilson had thrown to Tate, it would have been a TD. Also, I don’t think it’s likely that Rice would have made that catch.

  38. Hammajamma says:

    Agree with that. I thought the DB was in good position to knock it down. A higher trajectory out of reach of Tate and the defender covering Rice might have gotten it done.

  39. FleaFlicker says:

    Canfan, there are definitely two DBs in that frame. But that’s Huard’s point. If Tate cuts inside like he’s supposed to, he takes the second defender with him and Sydney is in the corner of the endzone with separation on the defender. Instead, Tate gives up on the route early and the play is a bust.

  40. Dukeshire says:

    Tate was supposed to drag across the endzone taking his corner with him. He stopped, allowing two defenders to be in the same zone.

  41. HaydenHawk says:

    This is a tough year to expect very much production of our passing game especially early on.

    1. Rookie QB

    2. QB competition, means less time to work with and develop a reliance with your receivers.

    3. Baldwin and Rice (Our best receivers) constantly hurt throughout the pre-season and into our first few games.

    4. What happened with Edwards?

    5. Tate is (should be) a slot receiver.

    I still believe there is enough talent that we should be able to do much better than last in the league. How about a little more creativity (Like some screens; short play action passes to our tight ends (Even Moore is 6’6″ and fast) they through to him one time and Wilson just barely overthrew him (play would have worked) throw to the guy again for gods sake! and what about some more throws to our backs off of play action; etc. etc.

  42. Tate obviously has the physical tools and ability to be a quality WR. It’s his mental makeup that most of us have an issue with. Maturity, attitude and smarts are what’s in question. He has made some progress this season and it’s imperative that that continues. The Hawks really NEED him to bring his best. Wilson is setting a great example for others to follow in those areas.

    The Rams game scares me a bit simply for the reason that their season is on the line this week. Lose to the Hawks at home and they are looking at a 1-3 record which is a big hole in the NFC. They will muster their best effort for this game and if the Hawks win it will be a huge divisional road victory. Please, please, please!!!

  43. Dukeshire says:

    Well said regarding Tate, Galena.

  44. The whole world is a little too focused on Golden Tate these days, I think. We might remember that this team’s success doesn’t rely on Golden Tate. Nearly all our wins over the past two years were with Golden on the bench. Tater is good for a few things, he’s a good #4 WR in 4-wide sets as he has great straight-line speed and jumps. He’s a good KR/PR, but of course we have a guy named Leon to handle that. He could be a decent slot WR but never as good as Baldwin or Butler since he lacks those quick hips and ability to get open. #81 isn’t part of our starting 11. He’s an extra playmaker for 3rd down or ST.

    Against the Rams, I want these numbers showing up:
    91, 24, 89, 82.

    Clemons should have a big day against a gimpy Wayne Hunger at LT. He should be smelling blood in the water. Irvin should also get into the backfield. Sam Bradford can’t unload the ball with the quickness we saw from Aaron Rodgers in the second half last week… Bradford is going down under Clemons.

    Marshawn. Enough said. This is Marshawn’s team and needs to be Marshawn’s team tomorrow.

    Baldwin. Time to get him back into the flow of the offense as Mr Third Down. Baldwin, Rice, and Moore together can create coverage problems.

    Moore. Time for this young man to step up and show why Coach Carroll let Kellen Winslow go while signing Evan Moore.

  45. Wayne *Hunter. lol.

  46. FleaFlicker and Duke, thanks. I see your point. At least Tate made up for it with the great catch at the end of the game. Of course, it was the defense that gave the Seahawks the second chance. That’s what a Top Five defense does.

  47. raymaines says:

    I there a Devil on the blog that would accept my soul in trade for an extra 10 inches of height, a boat load of talent and minus out about 40 years of age so I could play WR for the Seahawks for the next ten years? I’ll run good routes and study defenses, I promise.

    FWIW: Did you guys know that Stephen Michael Largent, HOF WR, was 5-11 and 187 lbs. A while ago I heard Dave Wyman say he wasn’t smart enough or talented enough to get into school or play for the current Stanford teams, and I wonder if SL could even make the current 53 man Seahawk roster?

  48. You and me both, raymaines.

    I try not to compare athletes of different eras. Largent played in a different era. He was the best against the competition he faced, that’s all that matters.

  49. freedom_X says:

    “Deer in the headlights?” Methinks people are misusing that term. Aaron Rodgers was under heavy pressure, but he didn’t freeze, he didn’t panic and make mistakes like throwing interceptions, and he didn’t take any clean kill shots as though he were frozen with terror.

    He knew what was coming and threw the ball away/threw short completions when her could. When he had no options, Rodgers went down without losing the ball. Big difference between being under pressure and freezing as though he “was a deer in the headlights.”

    Steve Largent absolutely could have played and excelled in the modern era. For over half his career, he played in the era where contact was allowed all over the field (not just 5 yards.) The stuff Browner and Sherman get called for, was 100% legal in that era. That era was also much less pass oriented. And he still piled up the numbers.

    If Largent couldn’t make the current 53 man roster, it’s because Carroll can’t judge receiving talent and prefers tall underacheivers over short overacheivers.

  50. On Largent making it now: hell yes. True talent and a knack for being a football player is what makes those guys great in the first place. Who cares what his size is? He proved it doesnt matter, and guys like Wilson are proving thats still the case. And speed? Jerry Rice only ran a 4.7 as a rookie, yet he was 7-11 just like Largent. QUickness and smarts will beat speed in a WCO any day. Thats still the case, as I said. Football is still football, and a football player is still a football player.

    Largent may not have been the same player in todays NFL–modern defenses probably would take away his deep routes. However, one must consider the fact that he played very well against some pretty fine secondaries, including the Raiders ones with huge corners. I think Steve would have had even more catches nowadays, especially in a WCO. He would have averaged less per catch, but caught 90-110 balls a year, instead of 70-80. Also, many of Largents deep balls were in double coverage–he just had that zen thing of always being in the perfect spot. He was uncoverable, and even said he loved being double-covered, as he found it easier to confuse two guys than one, since one guy was only worried about him, while two guys worried about each other…

  51. Sidney Rice is a joke. A three million a year guy being paid as a top-5 WR. A total bust thus far.

    Im ready to cut his ass, take the money and spend it elsewhere, draft a WR over 6’3″ who can run a 4.4 and is smart–a real SE. Then maybe we can see Tate step up at FL, have Baldwin at slot, and have a real NFL offense instead of this sad imitation of Chuck Knox with a backup qb and his best WR hurt.

    Rice has been the biggest waste of money Ive ever seen. And sad to say, Zack Miller is a close second. It may not be Millers fault, but I would rather have an ALL-PRO G or T instead of him for the money, especially since he only blocks, he never goes out for passes, and when he does he gets a concussion…

    Rice is a good player, but he isnt getting enough separation, he drops more passes than Id like, and we arent using him. A waste. You dont pay two players 7 mill a year to get a total of 70 catches for 650 yards and 4 td’s in an entire season! Well, unless youre stupid.

    So which guy is being stupid? Carrol or Bevell? My money is on Bevell, for the record. I dont care if Carrol is telling him to run most of the time, you can tell a mile away what the seahawks are gonna do before they do it, and thats on Bevell. You can still run the ball 65 % of the time and not be so utterly predictable.

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