Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Finding the best option at QB

Post by Eric Williams on Aug. 23, 2012 at 7:52 am with 44 Comments »
August 23, 2012 7:53 am
Matt Flynn and Russell Wilson wait to throw on Saturday, July 28, 2012, on the first day of Seattle Seahawks NFL football training camp. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

Art Thiel of writes that he’s not shocked rookie Russell Wilson has pushed Matt Flynn for the starting quarterback job this early in his pro career.

Thiel: If Wilson does well Friday, life will grow complicated for Carroll and Flynn. But they’re big boys. At least, that’s the presumption. Flynn sat out practice Wednesday, with Carroll explaining it was to “rest his arm” and not because of injury, pout or punishment.

Whatever. The complexity for Carroll and Flynn is one of options, not desperation, as was the case last season with the hire of Jackson. The Seahawks have built a team where defense is first, the running game second and passing is third. They need a quarterback who can manage the operation, avoid mistakes and be as good in the red zone as midfield.

Practice reps are always helpful, but of dubious value as a primary metric for modern-era quarterbacks. You know what’s a bigger deal on the Seahawks’ offense? The fact that assistant coach Tom Cable is back.”

710 ESPN Seattle’s Jim Moore writes that Wilson seems like the best option, but isn’t a sure thing.

Here’s my story on Sidney Rice starting his first game of the exhibition season.

Clare Farnsworth of talks with receivers coach Kippy Brown about the wide open competition at his position. Browns says he’s waiting for someone to step up and make plays consistently.

Doug Farrar of Yahoo Sports writes that Russell Wilson’s most impressive attribute so far has been his ability to improvise and effectively create plays outside the pocket.

710 ESPN Seattle’s Brock Huard says that Matt Flynn can’t let his frustration affect his play on Friday in this video link.

Here’s a preview of the Seattle-Kansas City game.

Gregg Rosenthal of ranks Pete Carroll in the middle of the pack of his NFL coaching rankings.

Gil Brandt of says offensive lineman Breno Giacomini and linebacker Bobby Wagner are two players who need to step up for the Seahawks to flourish.

Kerry Byrne of Sports Illustrated wonders if Matt Flynn and Russell Wilson can survive a year of T.O.

Pat Kirwan of CBS Sports writes that Seattle offensive tackle Russell Okung is a player to keep an eye on for Pro Bowl consideration – if he can stay healthy.

Bill Barnwell at Grantland pens another interesting article and how new technologies available can help provide a fuller picture of what’s going on in an NFL game.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 44
  1. bird_spit says:

    The QB comments suck. Let’s see the games first.

  2. RDPoulsbo says:

    It would seem Breno and Wagner are stepping up. My 2 would be Tate and Jason Jones for the Seahawks to flourish. WR and pass rush are still the biggest weaknesses that are holding the team back. …and I still don’t think Eldorado will make the team.

  3. When Gregg Rosenthal puts Jim Harbaugh in the top category with Bill Belichick, you don’t need to read any further.

  4. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Another qb thread, I think I’ll pass on this one.Lol.

  5. @STTBM

    Yes that was a goat rope last Friday in Missoula. I was hanging out with 3 Denver fans and Tamarack specifically said that they had the game. When that proved false we asked and called around for option b, c, d and eventually heard that Press Box was streaming the game. Might have been something they did on the fly as everyone was screaming and pulling their hair out. Not to give NFL network a geography lesson but the two closest teams to Mizzu are the Seahawks & Broncos. NYC? Come on now.

  6. I liked this comment under Farrar’s article: “This is the type of innovative thinking that will make Pete a success in the college ranks again very soon.”

    However, I understand Pete’s excitement over Wilson’s play.

  7. Soggybuc says:

    The Thiel article is a good one. he’s correct in that this is not a QB dependent team so PC can take a little extra time to shake the position out.
    I would expect to see this team trying to run about 55% of the time and facing a lot of 3rd and short yardage. no need for a Peyton Manning here.

  8. FleaFlicker says:

    Eric, what’s the real deal on Doug Baldwin? We have yet to see him in action. I’m hoping that it really is just a temporary thing, but if he’s got a chronic situation that is going to affect the regular season, we are in a hurt box. Guess I just don’t take PC’s “it’s just a little thing” comments at face value.

    Should we be worried or am I just being paranoid? Maybe I’m just used to having half the team injured.

  9. Dukeshire says:

    Canfan – Yes, Farrar love to slide in little back-handed jabs rather than simply coming out with it directly.

  10. FleaFlicker says:

    I mean seriously, what does this WR group look like minus Balwin/Rice? Don’t even want to think about it….

  11. Since Pete defies conventional wisdom and so many in the media and nfl personnel around the league disagree with how he runs things, he won’t get any credit for progress. The only way PC will get respect is by shoving it back in their faces with a big old super bowl ring. And then let the copycat games begin.

  12. Hammajamma says:

    RDPoulsbo–absolutely agree with your two picks. If either of them break out it could take their entire units to another performance level.

  13. HawkfaninMT says:

    Galena: We hit Buffalo Wild Wings being told the game was onthere. it was not. We called red Robin… “Yep, we have it” they say. We get there and nope!

    Shoulda gone to PressBox, but by that point I was fed up. Love Tamarack though! I may just have to go there tomorrow!

  14. gonefishin69690 says:

    I agree with bird_spit and GeorgiaHawk. You would think we just signed Tim Tebow or something!

  15. The fact that passing is #3 in importance for Carroll’s style of game is all well and fine, but statistically, the single most important metric is points-per-possession. That has the highest correlation to winning percentage in the NFL. So even with a ball control philosophy, if you aren’t producing TD’s, only FG’s, you aren’t likely to win. Carroll has to go with whoever is going to produce the most points, not who is the best game manager. I will leave it up to others to debate who exactly that is.

  16. HeinieHunter says:

    The final cut to 53 is going to be brutal this year. IMO the team is loaded with young talent and you know that PCJS will snag others they like that are cut from another team. That said, it’s a nice problem to have, far from the Ruskell & Mora days.

  17. I’m so glad they didn’t sign Manning or Tebow. I like our ‘game managers’ and think they’ll be great!

  18. “It would seem Breno and Wagner are stepping up. My 2 would be Tate and Jason Jones for the Seahawks to flourish. WR and pass rush are still the biggest weaknesses that are holding the team back. …and I still don’t think Eldorado will make the team.”

    Okung staying healthy; and contribution from the 2 guys you mention is huge for this season. I’ve got more hope for our pass rush than I do for the set of WR’s we’ve got.

    I agree with you re TO.

  19. FleaFlicker says:

    Soggy, that is a pretty interesting graphic. But I don’t think that there’s necessary causality with that correlation. Logically, a team with a lead is going to run like crazy. Still, fun numbers to contemplate.

    Is anybody else getting the “no tickets available” message on Seahawks website? It was supposed to go live for single game tickets at 10:00 a.m. WTF…

  20. Palerydr says:

    With all the focus on QB there is another aspect of our team that I would like to see step up, our pass rush. To be a top 5 defense we will need to have game changing plays from the pass rush. Irvin looks fine speed rushing to the outside but not much luck bull rushing or using spin moves. Clemons also has been non existent very disappointed in a guy who complained about getting paid but not living up to the contract.

    As for the QB Wilson needs to demonstrate he can read a defense from the pocket consistently. I don’t see that happening in a half of a preseason game. After watching him play I like Wilsons potential but I wouldn’t be happy with a rookie starting this year.

  21. gonefishin69690 says:

    An interesting read on “Bleacher Report” . . . . …..they have Wilson ranked as #1 rookie so far. Gotta admit, rookie or not, the kid is good!

  22. gonefishin69690 says:

    My mistake, #2 behind Andrew Luck. Where’s the Edit button?

  23. Yeah. I’ve watched part of Luck in his first two games and he looks so much better than I thought he would at this stage of the game (and I expected big things, too). Whereas some of the guys on that list are doing it against scrubs, he’s playing great against first team defenses and they don’t come better than Pittsburgh (for at least the last two years). It’s way too early to speculate, but it looks like Ingram and Mercilus are the real things up to this point. I’m surprised about Coples, as well. I can’t wait to see Wilson against the KC defense on the road. I hope he and Flynn play so well that the coaching staff has to throw a dart at a board to determine who is going to start (if that isn’t what they have been doing up to this point… lol).

  24. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’m really not that confident that the pass rush will show up in any consistent basis. I really liked the Jason Jones signing, but I still question drafting Irvin and then giving Clemons a contract extension. It still looks like 2 guys for 1 position and they used significant resources to voluntarily create that mess. Now I’ll shamelessly use Georgia’s strawman about Wilson and apply it to Irvin: should have drafted Coples like I wanted to see happen. 2 sacks, 2 hurries and a FF to Irvin’s 0, 0 and 0.

  25. HawkyHann says:

    RD Poulsbo, I agree. Irvin has shown me nothing yet. We’ll see. Coples and Ingram seemed like no brainers.

  26. Dukeshire says:

    I’ve watched both Luck’s games, and he’s legit. He’s made mistakes but corrects them the next possession. Really solid.

    Kirk Cousins has played well in Washingto, as well. Sadly for him, RGIII is not going anywhere.

  27. montanamike2 says:

    I think that were holding our pass rush back until the season so teams don’t study our moves, i’m not yet concerned and even still we’ve been dominant with vanilla. Thanks for the link to the zoo Georgiahawk.
    I can’t find the game anywhere in Helena, i even tried buffalo wild wings and they were too stupid to know, really shitty attitude. I have no desire to go to the one here in Bozeman.

  28. jchawks08 says:

    Someone mentioned earlier that Edwards hasn’t been practicing and is confirmed to not play the rest of the preseason. I haven’t seen anything about that, but haven’t done any research either. Anyone know what’s going on with him?

  29. rdp- Irvin got at least 3 hurries gave Manning a shot that tested that neck of his. It is starting to look like this years draft is very very strong. my glass if more that half full. It is crazy to question roster decisions from the boys in charge.

  30. In the game i was watching Irvin was clearly doubled after hitting manning. This is what I want to see. If he takes the tight end out of game clem will thrive.

  31. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Classy things to say. I hope he get’s another shot. Perhaps back here if we need him in a pinch down the road.

  32. Dukeshire says:

    Indeed. Cool to read that from Williams.

  33. Ewalters7354 says:

    I will never understand how people can judge players based on preseason.To me it doesn’t guarantee greatness or bust status.Point blank.

  34. DJammmer says:

    FleaFlicker/Sloggy – I agree that pass vs. run chart is super interesting, but I agree with the questionable causality.

    Definitely teams with a lead will want to run to maintain the lead, and teams behind will want to pass to try to catch up. I think if you ran the data seperately per half (for example looked at the pass vs run for the second half, correlated to wins… it would be even more skewed to running=winning. And if you did the same for the first half, if would be much less skewed.)

    However, one could propose: “you have to score (via running or passing) to get a lead; and you positively have to be able to run to maintain the lead.”

    Reminds me of the post Superbowl Seahawks. Hass was still good, but the run game had degraded. So the Seahawks could still play well.. but they always seemed to lose leads at the end, because they couldn’t run.

  35. DJammmer says:

    oh, and pilot…

    WRT “points-per-possession being highest correlation to winning percentage in the NFL.”

    wouldn’t it be point differential?

    A team could have a lower point-per-possession metric and still win, as long as they keep their opponents to a lower point-per-possession.

    That’s why the priorities of: 1) Defense, 2) Run, 3) Pass isn’t insane. It’s just different. Everything in the NFL is pendulum; which swings back and forth. Right now, seems we are on the “the Super QB wins you games” swing of the pendulum. Doesn’t mean that’s the only way to win, just the most popular. Going against the grain has its advantages. For example, as all other teams build Pass Happy offenses w/ top QBs & WRs, other teams will build defense designed to stop those more popular offenses. If your offense is structured differently – than the popular defenses may not be optimized to stop you.

    Seems Carol is building a defense to compete against the popular pass happy offenses (3 probowl DBs!); and a offense designed to beat that kind of defense (by not being a pass happy offense.)

    3 years from now, we’ll either call him insane; or a genious. Either way, I’ll be watching every game!

  36. HawkyHann says:

    Bobby Wagner looks awesome in preseason and the coaches are sold, exit Barrett Ruud. Bruce, not sold. It is early, I agree, so we’ll see but you can evaluate talent now.

  37. RDPoulsbo says:

    My problem with the pass rush so far is that it’s purely based on speed rushing. Nothing fancy there and nothing to hide. Yet, they still can’t beat simple 1 on 1 blocking. Right now, they’re not getting there without bringing the blitz, just like the 1 hurry on Manning. I’d credit that hurry to Hill…and to call Irvin touching Manning after the ball was gone a shot, that’s hilarious.

  38. sluggo42 says:

    The scarriest part of RW’s game is that he is open to injury moreso with his running, and I can see somebody dropping the hammer on the kid, scramblers get blindsided more often.

    I want to see Wagner be the new Lofa, but one who is really fast.
    I like Kearse, but I don’t know that he’ll make the squad. I also think Obo gets cut this year, too many drops. And I like Sutton.

    I used to own Edwards on my FF team and he killed me, then after I let him go for a song he lit it up.
    I want Edwards to decide to be the man.

    So, Edwards and Wagner.

    I’m rewatching the game (again) and I notice something that I think is pretty interesting.

    When RW is playing in the 2ond half and making great play after another, I started looking at the faces and postures of the players on the sideline, and I noticed a different air about the whole team when RW was at the helm. It’s almost like they are smiling, ready to jump, chatting with big smiles, and so on. There just seems to be a different vibe when RW is in the game.

  39. montanamike2 says:

    They’re smiling because the ball was in a place only they could catch it and they didn’t get crushed afterwards.

  40. montanamike2 says:

    By the way, did you guys see the amount of players being carted off by other teams after they got crushed by us?

  41. raymaines says:

    I’m interested to see the Cardinals vs. Titans game tonight (5:00 on Comcast ch. 173, be there or be square). We’re familiar with Tenn. and Az. is the first regular season game.

  42. FleaFlicker says:

    DJammer – I saw another stat, can’t remember where. There is a 100% correlation between the team with the most points and the team that wins. I’ll have to look it up and post it.


  43. ” Flynn was pretty po’d to say the least” (about sitting the first half at KC)

    Alumni56 @ scout

    I don’t think this is about Pete at all. It’s not his area of expertise. This is between Bevell (RW) and John (Flynn).

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