Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Wilson deserves a start

Post by Eric Williams on Aug. 20, 2012 at 7:27 am with 144 Comments »
August 20, 2012 7:29 am
Seattle Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson (3) stiff arms Denver Broncos defensive back Rafael Bush (36) in the second half of an NFL football preseason game, Saturday, Aug. 18, 2012, in Denver. (AP Photo/Jack Dempsey)

John McGrath of The News Tribune weighs in on the battle at quarterback for Seattle, which appears to be narrowed down to a two-horse race between free agent addition Matt Flynn and rookie Russell Wilson.

While Flynn has played efficient but unspectacular with the reserves, Wilson has wowed people with his playmaking ability against reserves in the second halves of games against Tennessee and Denver.

McGrath believes it’s time to see what Wilson can do against frontline talent, and that Pete Carroll should start him against Kansas City this week.

McGrath: No need to lose sleep over this one, Pete.

Start Wilson in Kansas City. See if the kid, who’s not really a kid anymore, is the game-changing dynamo a lot of us suspect he is. Then turn the second-half duties over to Flynn, whose passing numbers figure to improve, substantially, by the prospect of not having to target Terrell Owens as a first-option receiver.

If Wilson struggles against a legitimate defense, while Flynn thrives against the temps, the conclusions you make will be difficult. But they’ll also be informed.”

In my story today, receiver Deon Butler may be small in stature, but he’s made a big impact so far in exhibition play.

Art Thiel of chimes in with McGrath, saying that Wilson has earned the right to start against Kansas City. Thiel: “Wilson was drafted by a team that doesn’t need a superhero at QB. They just need someone to do the math that gets them from three to six more often. Wilson has shown enough to merit an opportunity to show his computing skills.”

Pat Kirwan of CBS Sports believes that Seattle needs to settle on Matt Flynn as the team’s starting quarterback. I agree. Kirwan:Flynn needs as much practice time as he can get from here on out because he has only two career starts.”

Clare Farnsworth of writes that reserve safety Jeron Johnson made the most of his opportunities against the Broncos.

Danny O’Neil of the Seattle Times writes that the fact that the Seahawks’ first unit offense has yet to reach the end zone is a concern as this team heads into the final two preseason games.

Peter King of Sports Illustrated lists the Seahawks as one of the teams in the league in trouble in terms of depth at receiver, along with Miami, the N.Y. Jets and San Diego.

Michael Lombardi of the NFL Network is reporting that the Tennessee Titans will name Jake Locker as the starter for the team’s regular-season opener.

The Onion has an amusing spoof on Terrell Owens deciding which of the three Seattle quarterbacks to undermine.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 144
  1. SandpointHawk says:

    Well By these links I guess to QB debate is going to be the talk of the blog again today. Let’s keep it civil friends.

  2. seahawk44 says:

    Eric, thanks for the piece on Deon Butler. The guy broke his leg in half and held on for the touchdown. He has kinda been a forgotten man amongst the WR’s and I am rooting for gin to make the team.

  3. It’s difficult to assess a Rookie’s abilities after one preseason start, but that’s apparently where we are with this QB competition.

    The passing game is a situation where the “compete” philosophy kills the team. At some point, Carroll not only needs to decide on a QB but to decide on the WR depth chart and hope that practice time together can elevate the group’s play.

    The level of passing game we have seen this preseason is going to buy him a 1-3 start, which puts all the wonderful things he has built in jeopardy.

    Only one other coach in Seahawks history has gone 3 straight seasons with a losing record (Tom Flores). The team has gone 23 straight weeks without sporting a winning record at any point in the season which is also historic by Seahawks standards.

  4. They’ve also gone 35 straight seasons without winning a superbowl. Historic by Seahawk standards.

  5. bird_spit says:

    pabs – now that you have accepted Jackson’ fate, it is rare that I disagree with what your writing (again)

    With the current state of the team, undecided/unproven QB, and WR corp that looks weak on paper and on the field, I believe a 1-3 start is very possible. It was going to be difficult regardless, but the WR group is far from the strength of this team. Add with the near zero chemistry they have with either QB, and this wont be pretty.

  6. Dukeshire says:

    pabuwal – Determining a “WR depth chart” has already been done, injuries aside. (You’re aware that Rice, Baldwin, and Tate / Edwards (at split-end) are the starters, yes? Ah, but the injuries, that’s how he’s determining who gets on the field. Pretty simple.

    And I want a piece of your 1-3 prediction. Let’s make it interesting.

    That Onion piece is great.

  7. Soggybuc says:

    I love Wilson I really do, but I’m in the Flynn camp because I think he shows so much more poise. he reads and understands Defenses better. Give Russ 2 years learning the position and he will be a winner. Pab’s give flynn that TD and any 2 other passes that TO flubbed on and then look at the numbers.

    I’m with 44 here, Butler is the little engine that does. a team needs guys like that to win. after that TD in SF he has Paul Moyer kind of respect from me.

  8. sluggo42 says:

    Wow, I personally think the WR’s will be fantastic, especially when we will be a running team. All of the NFL is gearing up to stop huge aerial assults with lean and fast defenses. We, on the other hand are a power running team who will run first and mix the throws in when the other team is expecting another run. YAC’s will be large, and we will s core a LOT. Defense will shut people down.

    I think it would be great to see the kid start, but actually I would rather see Flynn work with the first string, and get a few of the true starters in for a few reps.

    It all boils down to who Pete has chosen to start, which I think he has done already, that being Flynn…

  9. Duke – I’ll bullet these to make it a quick read

    * The 1-3 was not a prediction on where the team will be after 4 games. I have no idea where they will be after 4 games. But if this passing game remains in the current state to open the season, it won’t be a good situation. Again, I have no idea where this passing game will be in 3 weeks.

    * I don’t bet against the Seahawks. Remember, I am the guy who takes the moneyline anytime they are huge underdogs and I think they have a shot.

    * Are you telling me we have 2 starters (Edwards/Tate) at SE? To me that means there is no designated starter over there and Carroll is trying to figure this out. That probably also means the depth chart is more of a mess. I watch these preseason games and I see WRs simply being shuttled in and out. I watch teams like the Giants and its pretty easy to figure out who starts and who comes in during passing situations.

  10. Other than Baldwin and Rice, it wouldn’t surprise me if any of the other WRs were released. Tate is non-descript during games. He’s been this way for 3 years. I see him lining up and getting snaps, but I see little production. I see him making athletic catches but I rarely see him “open.”

    The only truly safe WRs are Baldwin and Rice. And looking at Rice’s contract, its essentially a 2 year, $18.5m contract so he will need a 1200 yard year otherwise he will be released after this season.

  11. Dukeshire says:

    pabuwal – Well, forgive me if I have no idea what you meant when you said 1-3 then.

    If you are truly having trouble determining who the starters are (which I highly doubt, and you are simply being hyperbolic), after watching the two preseason games, and various practices you’ve seen on line, I would feel very badly for you.

  12. So who opens the season opposite Rice then? Because I really don’t know. I’m not even 100% sure if Rice or Owens will open the season at that position.

    What happens if Edwards doesn’t start? What happens to Owens if Rice is healthy? How about Deon Butler or Ben Obomanu? You could win a bet with me if you tell me you know, we bet and you are right.

  13. Eric – glad to see you highlighting Butler. He deserves it. People forget how good he was becoming before his injury, and that last year was a rehab year. I was watching Deon a lot in training camp, and he seems to have regained all that quickness and juke that he used to have.

    I still like Butler better than Tate. Both have great straight-line speed. Tate makes leaping grabs and is great with yards after the catch, but in order for Tate to make a play they must put Tate out in space – with either dump offs at the LOS or bombs downfield. Butler has the better skill set – crisp routes, shifty hips, he can beat coverage and get open in tight spaces, making him more valuable on third down.

    Yet it seems that Tate has been handed a roster spot by virtue of his high draft position, while Butler might get cut because the team has too many smaller guys stacked behind Baldwin at slot. Butler is a good option to backup Rice at flanker as well, and I hope he wins a job.

  14. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Great to see Jeron Johnson playing well. He was one of my favorite rookies last year in camp. He has a knack for being in the right place at the right time.
    Are we loaded at safety or what? We’re just filthy rich there!

    And I’m not so concerened yet with the WRs. Just getting Mr glue back,(Baldwin), will make a big difference,imo.

  15. I agree w/Pabuwal re the WR’s – it’s the weakest unit on the team right now; and now that it hopefully appears we’ve upgraded at QB (though, we need this season to evaluate that), I think we need to look at spending a first/second round pick in that area next year. With Rice’s health still iffy, I think Baldwin is the only guy we can count on at the position, and he’s not really a #1.

  16. Dukeshire says:

    pabuwal – You’re simply being silly now. Perhaps you didn’t mean “depth chart” after all and are simply concerned about the unit in general. In which case, yes, the injuries are a real concern and go a long way to my belief this group is potentially the weakest in recent memory (2008 aside).

  17. GeorgiaHawk says:


  18. pabs, I would bet Rice at Z and Edwards at X to start on opening day. Baldwin at slot.

    But I also think Tate could get a lot of snaps at X throughout the game when the team wants to emphasize ball control and their short passing game.

  19. I would think Edwards based on talent, but looking at practices and games, it would seem like it could be Tate, which scares me. There has been nothing going with him and Flynn during the preseason. I really have no idea how the WR starters and depth chart shake out.

  20. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Stevos- Who’s Tate? Does he play for the Seahawks? And I agree with Butler. Good player that had an unfortunate injury. Good to see him back.

  21. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Tate is one of those type of WRs that can at anytime make a big play or unfortunately,( more often than not), get his qb out of rhythm. Again, makes me so thankful for Baldwin.

  22. Soggybuc says:

    Lets pray that if no one single receiver can step up to be the “man” we just go with a 5 headed monster instead. I could care less if Okung ends as the leading receiver as long as we post W’s!

  23. Soggybuc says:

    Whats weird is that stat posted eons ago about how Tate never drops the ball and catches it every time.
    This is his magic year 3 time to put up or shut up.

  24. chuck_easton says:


    It’s good to see that the media is having the same debate we are about the QB’s. Maybe we do kind of know what we are talking about around here!

  25. If Wilson does not get most of the reps with the first team this week in practice, and start with the ones this weekend, then everyone should accept its too late to have him ready to start game 1 and just let it go.

  26. Either that or the media is as clueless as we are about what’s going on in PC’s head and what he’s basing his evaluations on… :)

  27. SandpointHawk – Let’s keep it civil friends.

    Brick is a FlynnFan.

  28. ljarllrajl says:

    Interest in King’s article:

    “Ryan Mallett has had two training camps to beat out Brian Hoyer for the backup quarterback job, and when the Patriots start the season, Hoyer’s very likely to be No. 2. If Mallett were a great player, I couldn’t see this happening.”

    Mallett was another guy our front office could’ve had and passed on. Glad we got Russell Wilson.

  29. HeinieHunter says:

    How can this be called a competition if Wilson never gets to play with and against the top talent?

  30. yellaman says:

    Let me tell you what I see is the problem with Tate. Tate only knows how to run 2 routes- fade and slant. When have we seen him do a post or corner route successfully. How about a deep in or out routes and get separation from a CB. Tates ability to run percision routes are his problem. Nobody can deny he has talent but his problem is his ability to play against NFL level talent means more than just talent. Tate in college was just so much more talented than the players he played against he could get away with not knowing how to run routes properly. In fact that is why he got benched in his first year because he wasn’t a polished WR in running routes.

  31. That’s a fairly good, high level assessment on Tate. And, I haven’t seen much different from him so far this year.

  32. SeventiesHawksFan says:

    The comparisons between Butler and Tate here are curious and I think partly missing the point.

    Their similar physical size both playing the same position, doesn’t mean they are really different players.

    It’s kind of like comparing a changeup / third down back who may be similar in size to Lynch and who both play the running back position. They bring different but important skill sets to the table.

    Tate is explosive and dangerous with the ball in his hands and has more flash. Something an offense needs. He’s a dangerous player doing what he does best. But it doesn’t mean he’s an every down receiver.

    Butler seems to have a better sense of the field and runs more precise routes, can get open, and one could argue he also has better hands. You probably want that guy in the slot on third down more than you want Tate.

    Just as I want both Washington and Lynch at running back for different game situations and depending on the play being called, I want both Tate and Butler in the slot in different situations as well. Butler on third down and with a short field. Tate on first and second down. Even though both possess similar height and speed.

    Also, I don’t think who ‘starts’ in the slot is really so important in the way PC and Bates intend to run their offense. Just as it’s not so important that Irvin ‘starts’ at DE either. Their philosophy seems more oriented toward putting the optimal personnel on the field given the situation and play being called.

    Tate and Butler give you two very good options at the slot. And I suspect that PC is going to want them both around. And both will see plenty of snaps.

  33. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “If Wilson does not get most of the reps with the first team this week in practice, and start with the ones this weekend, then everyone should accept its too late to have him ready to start game 1 and just let it go.”

    That’s usually the way it works Stevos. Lol.

  34. GeorgiaHawk says:

    HeinieHunter-It’s not a competition yet. However Wilson is certainly making a strong case for one.

    We will see soon.

  35. SeventiesHawksFan says:

    Second paragraph should have said: ‘Their similar physical size and that they both play the same position doesn’t mean they should be viewed as similar players, and thus only one can or should occupy that position on the final roster. Each brings slightly different and important skill sets to the equation. And both can be valuable in the slot role, depending on the play being called and the game situation.’

  36. SaigonSun says:

    This is a test of how civil people on this blog can be. LOL I am tired of players with “High potential” and low production like : Rice ” The Marble Pyramid”, ” Maple Bar” Tate , “butterfingers” Lockette and ” I can’t stay healthy” Durham . Obo is not worth keepimg and can easily be replaced on STs.
    This is how I’d like to see our WR Corps @ day 1 :
    Rice ( only b/c we invested so much in him) OR , Tate ( whomever we can’t trade / get rid-off)
    T.O.(on short leash)
    Edwards ( until he develops his historic “Pass Dropitis Syndrome”)
    Bates ( I love all three rookies and, I don’t think Bates will make it to the PS so we have to lock him up, or lose him)
    PS :
    PUP/IR or whatever :
    If we get rid off / trade away Rice or Tate ,and there is any injury to the WRs then we can bring back Jerome Kearse ( I am sure he’ll be there).
    Thats my two cents. Thanks for reading it.

  37. SeventiesHawksFan says:

    As for Wilson starting, I like it as an exercise. But for the regular season, I think it could be a setback for the overall development of the offense as a whole.

    I LOVE Wilson’s improvisation, foot speed, arm strength and ability to create something out of a seemingly dead play.

    But you really don’t want our young offense as a whole getting into an improvisation and broken play mentality.

    I would think that Flynn is simply FAR MORE LIKELY to bring the kind of precision, reliabilty and stability to how the offense functions. Meaning receivers knowing their roles and running the correct routes, the O-Line having a sense of what their QB needs and where he’s at in the pocket, and just overall cohesion.

    If you’ve got RW kinda figuring it out as he progresses and goes along, which would be a virtual certainty, that rubs off on the rest of the offense as well. I’d expect less precision and discipline, but also more improvisational and exciting plays.

    The problem with that is that in Pro Football, you want the broken play, Brett Favre theatrics to happen only AFTER everyone is cohesive and tight with knowing what they are supposed to do when the play doesn’t break down. I think the team is far more likely to achieve that under Flynn than RW, at least near term, even if it is rather less exciting and fewer big plays.

    Thinking long term, I want Flynn in there to start the season. Then RW to take over when he’s got a much firmer grasp of the playbook, what he can expect from opposing defenses, how the offensive unit and individual pieces function together, etc. And I’d rather him learn that by watching and observing it for at least half a season than under fire at the start of it.

  38. boycie99 says:

    So the Titans are going with Locker… Guess they want the spark rather than the game manager

  39. yellaman says:

    While I like butler I believe he’s going to have a hard time making this team. Butler’s ideal spot is in the slot and balwin is this team’s #1 WR with probably Tate behind him in the depth chart. Butler doesn’t fit the team’s ideal WR for the flanker or split end position. Then if he doesn’t start that means he will have special team duties and his stature doesn’t help him beat out players like Obomanu. So what do you with butler to make this team? Butler has looked good but he’s not in the top 5 WR

  40. SandpointHawk says:

    Thanks @JoSCh, I saw that yesterday…on this blog

  41. Sparky12 says:

    Well, since we are team Nike with these new uniforms, lets apply Nike’s favorite trademark saying to our current QB selection dilemma.

    Pete : JUST DO IT!

  42. SaigonSun says:

    Shoul be “The Pyramid of Marbles” Rice

  43. SeventiesHawksFan says:

    I’d go with Locker at this point too, even if Hasslebeck was slightly outperforming Locker in the preseason.

    Hasselbeck is simply not the team’s future at QB. He was the equivalent to the Titans what Tavaris Jackson was to us.

    And with his rookie year now behind him, it’s time to put Locker in a position to take command of the offense and for the team to find out if he can be their guy.

  44. @SandpointHawk, you mean someone else posted a link to that video or people were throwing tridents into each others chests?

    If someone else posted that same video that would be a crazy coincidence. And the other poster would be someone I’d like to hang out with. And get into gang warfare with.

  45. Regarding Tate and Butler in the slot, Baldwin holds that job, having two backups who aren’t really suited to play outside (Butler isn’t, Tate hasn’t demonstrated that he is) is a luxury this team may not be able to afford. Of course having a 5th WR that is too small but can catch is probably better than a full size one with hands of stone in the clutch… Seattle has 3 of those, maybe 4.

  46. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Hasselbeck will be a great back up for the Titans. If Locker struggles he can come off the bench and win games.
    He’s a better value to the Titans as a backup than Jackson was to the Seahawks as a starter,imo.

  47. Hawksince77 says:

    A strange notion has appeared on Seahawk blogs, namely that Russell Wilson’s only postiive attribute is his ability to rescue a broken play and make it into something that otherwise wasn’t there, and that Flynn is calm cool and collected in the pocket, reads defenses well, and is the steadier hand.

    Watch the two games again. Tell me that Wilson isn’t calm and in control, in every moment both prior to and after the snap. Note his flawless execution of every routine play, whether it be a hand-off or a check-down or a screen pass. Note his standing steady in the pocket (when properly protected) and throwing strikes down the field (Edwards, McCoy, Kearse, for instance).

    He doesn’t encourage ‘broken plays’ or simply run around for nothing. He does so when the protection breaks down, when his receivers are covered, and it appears as if his decisions have been solid. He runs for first downs, sometimes; he throws the ball away on others, avoiding the sack. You would be hard-pressed to find many plays where he obviously made a mistake (the INT in the endzone, a notable exception).

    I just watched some of RGIII last night – he looked lost and befuddled (albeit, starting the game against Chicago) on the 2 series of his I watched.

    Wilson doesn’t play desperate or recklessly: he plays agressively and in control. He knows what he is doing, and it shows up on the field and in the box score.

  48. Hugh Millen was on the radio this morning, and his analysis was basically, that Wilson was good at improvising, but could have passed the ball on a couple of occasions, and that he would have had problems against Denvers starters. He also felt that Flynn made most of the correct throws, but there were a couple of bad play calls, and issues with the receivers. He also felt there were a couple of plays where Butler’s size was causing him problems with breaking loose and getting open.

  49. Reality check here, I swore Flynn has started two actual NFL games where he put up some pretty good numbers, so everyone that’s trippin’ on two halves of preseason games need to chill. I believe this is a feeling out process and we aren’t exactly running the same kind of game plans as we would be in the regular season.

  50. Hum – Dave Krieg just said that he thinks the Seahawks should do as the Titans – Let RW learn for one year and then Possible give him the reigns going into next year

  51. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Hawksince77- I here you.

    It seems like some want Flynn to start so bad that they try to convince folks that Wilson is the next Wallace in some way or another. So they say that Flynn is more poised and Wilson runs around too much.

    It’s really funny to hear such nonsense.

  52. GeorgiaHawk says:


  53. piperfeltcher says:

    The receivers are not going to look good until the pass protection improves. Not that the WR have looked good but I think the weakest unit on the Hawks is the guards. Not sure about all the passes that people talk about T.O. missing as I saw him drop a TD but other then that did not see any other passes that he could have caught. He ran a slant and was open but the pass was thrown behind him and he had a step on a deep ball but Flynn threw it short which might have been intentional hoping T.O would stop and back shoulder it but to be honest I thought T.O read the play right as he did have a step.

  54. The key with Wilson is that when he “improvises”, what is the result? Just about every time its a positive play in the middle of a scoring drive.

    His football IQ is simply off the charts. He has that innate ability, that “it” factor where he simply knows what to do in every situation. Whereas once the play breaks down for Jackson and Flynn, it’s over. In this NFL, that’s a losing recipe.

  55. I’d add that Hasselbeck had that “it” factor too for a while (2002-2006), until EJ Henderson began the process of sending his body into irreversible physical decline.

  56. Hawksince77, couldn’t agree more about Wilson. He’s a game manager with big play potential. It appears we get the best of both worlds with him.

    Can’t wait to see Wilson run with the first team on Friday, should Carroll allow him the opportunity he has clearly earned.

  57. grizindabox24 says:

    You will get to see RW start vs the Raiders while the first team sits. I think PC has made up his mind, and it was not really a competition. Flynn will start and play 3 quarters at KC Friday. RW may eventually be the starter, but it will not be week 1 at Arizona.

  58. “His football IQ is simply off the charts. He has that innate ability, that “it” factor where he simply knows what to do in every situation.”

    He also has the tools to get the job done. The dude can deliver his passes in a hurry. I kept replaying some of his throws on my DVR…he’s systematic about checking down receivers, makes split second decisions, and delivers the ball with authority.

    The way he sells the play action is phenomenal. Then watch him run and use his blockers and sidelines or slide to keep from being hit. Notice how he points out coverages at the line of scrimmage. Even after a touchdown, he doesn’t celebrate…people are patting him on the back while he’s studying pics of the coverages for his next series.

  59. Also, if I’m not mistaken, the 3rd preseason game is the one where you start actually game planning for real, actually playing the starters and getting a feel for how things are actually going to be. Let’s see what Flynn does with Lynch doing his thing, and someone else besides T.O. is out there. Maybe even show Rice a liitle action. I don’t think this is the time to say screw it and push Wilson out there. Sometimes you just got to be patient, next year will be his oppertunity to compete for real or if Flynn gets banged up, but until then, let’s not gamble this season a way, our D is to good to try getting cute and throw a 3rd round rookie out there.

  60. Matt Hasselbeck won’t admit it, but he made a mistake not signing the one-year contract that the Seahawks offered. He should have finished his career in Seattle. One year as a starter in Tennessee doesn’t do much for his legacy. I’m happy that all three Seahawks HOFers (Largent, Tez, Walt) retired as Seahawks. I wish there was room for Hass to retire as a Seahawk, but aside from a one-day contract, it’s not going to happen.

  61. SandpointHawk says:

    @JoSCh We are getting a lot of newbies who haven’t taken time to get to know the regulars who have been here for years. So they don’t know who’s using satire font (often times that’s me) or who may be getting a bit drunk (hell, that could be me also). Had a bit of name calling and trident throwing going on yesterday. As for gang warfare, stay tuned we may have the Flynn Grays vs the Wilson Blues getting ready to rumble…

  62. HawkyHann says:

    These numbers are just plain awful.

    Flynn’s numbers: 17-for-26 passing for 102 yards with no touchdowns and one interception. He’s been sacked three times, has a 3.9 yards per completion average and a 56.9 passer rating

    Read more here:

  63. Pre-season homie, look what he did in real games.

  64. Still sayin – the team is selling Flynn jerseys and not Wilson or Tjack jerseys

  65. wallinator says:

    I think it’s hilarious how many commenters on here think they know what will happen. In reality, it’s all our views and opinions on what we think will happen, and/or what we want to happen. Flynn is labeled a better “game manager.” Has Wilson done anything to show you he’s not a good “game manager?” Wilson has a higher ceiling than Flynn and his play has earned him the chance to play with and against starters in the NFL. Flynn hasn’t been bad, but he hasn’t been that good either. Zero TD drives doesn’t cut it, and it won’t cut it week 1. Granted, the T.O. Show should have caught that TD pass. We had a decade of a “game manager” under center and it’s time to see what a QB with more talent and that “it” factor can do. If Coach’s Always Compete mantra is true, Wilson get’s the start in K.C. on Friday.

  66. Dukeshire says:

    In this NFL. not being able to QB from the pocket is a losing recipe. The ability to extend plays, which can take many forms, is crucial, no argument here. But let’s separate the pepper from the fly sh*t: abandoning plays before they break down is not the same thing as extending plays. Wilson may, and likely will, learn patience in the pocket, but he is not there yet. And as far as football IQ goes. what a fun little backhanded slight to Flynn, who Carroll said “blew him away” on the chalkboard, during his free agent visit.

  67. Hey we all know the “always compete” is crap – he didn’t do it last year with the QB’s and the more you watch it this year he isn’t do it this year either.

    Here is what I think will happen: (yes my OPINION)

    They will start Flynn – he will have some great ones and some bad ones.

    Next off Season (barring an injury) I think the competition will be ON.

    If this is what they do I hope they don’t bounce back and forth when on struggles. Whoever starts is going to struggle the first few games because of lack of prep time and this stupid routine he has adopted. The last thing we need if for the guy to truly NOT be prepared and then bash/bench him when he struggles. We could have 2 guys with shot confidence if they continue to jerk them around

  68. Hammajamma says:

    Enough with this civility.

    I know precisely what will happen because I am smarter than you.

    My opinions presented as fact are, indeed, fact.

    Disagreement with my factual opinions brands you an idiot.

    Challenge me and I’ll pull out the ALL CAPS hammer.

    Now, everyone all together: Wilson is the future (perhaps near future) but Flynn will start. Let’s move on to more receiver hand wringing.

  69. bird_spit says:

    wallinator – What are you talking about?

    I know what is going to happen clearly. Flynn will play Friday, and will only be so-so. The run game will rock, the 1st D will bend but not break. Seahawks will win, but the fans will be left with a big question. Is Flynn or Wilson the better QB?

    From this fans perspective, and borrowing from some old guy in Oakland..

    “Just Win “, and all will be well.

    Cant wait for the QB talk all season, win or lose, this blog will be all about the QB. Infact, 2013 season will be all about the QBs and the pathetic WRs..

  70. Sparky12 says:

    Hammajamma – Lol!! I will not challenge your post at this time or at any time in the future

  71. Soggybuc says:

    Whats funny with those knocking Flynn as a “Game Manager” who will make safe throws to avoid the turnover are describing to T what Pete wants from the QB position.

  72. Soggybuc – oh so true

  73. “Flynn’s numbers: 17-for-26 passing for 102 yards with no touchdowns and one interception. He’s been sacked three times, has a 3.9 yards per completion average and a 56.9 passer rating”

    That’s a per-attempt average, isn’t it?

  74. HawkyHann says:

    Uh-Oh…startcharlie might be relevant again.

    Quarterback Charlie Whitehurst made his first preseason appearance after missing last week with a knee injury. He was 7-for-12 for 122 yards and two touchdowns, including a 38-yard strike to undrafted rookie wide receiver Mike Willie.

    Turner said he expects Whitehurst to be “just an outstanding player for us.”

    “He’s very assertive, very in control,” Turner said. “He’s making good decisions. The combination of our offense fits him — the style of offense we run he spent years in it before he went to Seattle. He had opportunity to play in Seattle. He came back here, and he’s just a more mature guy.”

  75. So is Tjack still on the roster? Will he get the #1 snaps tomorrow?

  76. chuck_easton says:


    I reject your reality and replace it with my own…

    Other than that I agree with you.

  77. ljarllrajl says:

    Flynn has been fine, he’ll be the starter week #1. He’s moving the chains and leading scoring drives…all without our top 2 receivers playing.

  78. wallinator says:

    @xcman – tell Doug Baldwin, Richard Sherman, & Brandon Browner that Always Compete is crap…..

  79. “That’s usually the way it works Stevos. Lol.”

    so its time for us to start ignoring the Wilson cheering section, Georgia? lol. how long until you give up the ship? Coach has obviously made his decision, the QB competition ended two weeks ago. What do you know that he doesn’t know?

  80. Im staying out of the previous thread, now that I hear its getting rough…namecalling is just so Junior High…

    On Tate: yeah, his immaturity and lack of precision on his route-running were the knock on him coming out of college, and its been discussed ad nauseum; its nothing new. He was, and is, a project and isnt even close to getting cut, whatever impatient fans say/want. And dont forget he was playing well near the end of last season, and by all accounts is doing well thus far in preseason.

    Its hard to say without Coaches film, without the playbook, and without knowing if he was the hot read on any given play, whether his lack of catches in preseason is his fault or not. I think and hope that its mostly just the preseason BS where our coaches are more often looking to build matuchups for certain players on a given play than they are trying to win or running a real offense. I expect Tate’s catches to increase dramatically once the regular season gets here.

    Of course, I thought that last year….

    He’s done more than Butler, but everyone agrees Butler is doing well…and Tate is MUCH more physical and strong than Butler, and he outweighs him by 10-20 lbs! Not the same kind of player at all…Butler cant take a hit, while Tate was a RB at ND for two years!

    I like both Tate and Butler. Butler is making it hard to cut him, but all he can excel at is backing up Baldwin in the slot. Perhaps Seattle will try Baldwin at FL and Butler at slot, but not just yet…for now they want to keep Baldwin in the slot and that means Butler is on the bubble since he doesnt do much ST and really never stood out at FL or SE.

  81. On Flynn: its frustrating watching him dink around with dumpoff passes, hold the ball too long, and take sacks; but he did throw a beatiful toss right into TO’s breadbasket that traveled over 50 yards, and that was a sure TD. Not his fault TO dropped the pass. (See, I told y’all TO dropped too damn many passes…)…BUT, Flynn hasnt made dumb mistakes and is better than Jackson.

    Meanwhile, Wilson looks great, but he’s going against scrubs and backups. Carrol pretty much said Wilson doesnt understand/know how to read NFL defenses well enough to start right now. THATS what we’re all waiting on. I garauntee Carrol cant hardly wait to hand the reins over to Wilson, but right now, despite his play against backups, in Carrols opinion Wilson doesnt have a good enough grasp of NFL defenses and thier trickery to warrant the job. Thats good enough for me. No one wants Wilson to start more than Carrol except perhaps Wilson and his Mama…

    So even though I think Flynn has looked pretty “Meh”, Im fine with him starting. I think he will look a lot better once we have our WR corps settled and are using REAL offense. God, I hope so! And soon enough, Wilson WILL be ready to start, and if Flynn falters its RW time!

  82. I will never forget Clipboard Jesus holding his ass and gimping to the sideline, taking himself out of the game with another down to go, and Carrols outraged and incredulous expression as he yelled at CW “Dont be so F&^%%ing Dramatic!”

    That right there ended the CW experiment in Seattle. He should have been dumped in the cold tub for that wusstastic performance.

    San Diego can have him. What a douche. I dont see him being anything more than backup, EVER. Perhaps he learned how to lead and how not to be a wuss, but I doubt it. Then he’d still have to learn how to make decisions under duress, which I saw no liklihood of him achieving in this millenium…

  83. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Stevos- I know he screwed it up the last two years choosing a qb. Whitehurst and your pal Jackson. So anything is possible when it comes to Carroll and qbs.

    Soggy- Who’s knocking Flynn as a poor game Manager? I think he’s a good game manager. But wouldn’t you want a good game manager who is also a good game winner,( like Wilson ), if needed?

  84. bird_spit says:

    I still say, if we are winning we need Flynn, but if we are losing we need Wilson. They will both be playing in the regular season.

  85. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Speaking of Jackson.

    Where are all those Jackson lovers now that said earlier this year he had an even shot or better at starting this year, and almost forced BobbyK into a witness protection program.

    Remember I told you Bobbyk would be right? Lol.

  86. GeorgiaHawk says:

    bird_spit- That’s about the smartest thing said in the last two days here at the Flynn/Wilson blog fest, imo.

  87. ryanryan says:

    STTBM made the point that i would have an hour ago had I not been reading through all of the posts (i took a day off from the blog) – READING DEFENSES. I don’t think that anyone can argue that flynn has better physical tools than wilson. what does that leave? you get the drift. i would bet that the qb decision is a pretty easy one to make for carroll, and i bet he is giddy as hell at what he has on his team.

    the wr position is nearly set as well. rice, baldwin, tate, edwards are going to be on the team…book it (i always wanted to say that).

    that leaves 2-3 guys to round it out, this is how i handicap it:
    butler – maybe
    t.o – maybe
    lockette – maybe
    obonanu- maybe
    kearse – maybe
    durham – NOPE
    bates – NOPE
    tuinei – NOPE

  88. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Happy hour time!
    About the only thing I got going for me over you on the west coast.

    I will be back later to finish my mission of convincing Chuck that Wilson could be the best option to start.

    Remember I almost had Chuck pulling for DeCastro before the draft? Lol. He may be stubborn but he can be swayed. Lol.

    Now Duke is a different story. I will be back later to debate Duke on stats, so feel free klm008, ( cause I know you are watching ), to jump right in.

    And remember-

    “Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. ” –Ernest Hemingway

  89. Witness protection program – lol

    I can’t wait for that experiment to officially be over! I won’t be happy until the transaction is complete!

  90. Hammajamma says:

    Golden is thy Tate. I believe that’s someone’s handle over at .net.

    Still waiting for something to love about him, which had me disappointed he couldn’t get his feet down in the end zone in Denver. Watched it again, and thought it was a really nice athletic play that would’ve scored without the force out. Good throw from Flynn as well.

    Starting to believe in his hands and hops, though he still seems small against bigger DB’s. Can it be that Golden is thy Tate?

  91. “Enough with this civility.

    I know precisely what will happen because I am smarter than you.

    My opinions presented as fact are, indeed, fact.

    Disagreement with my factual opinions brands you an idiot.

    Challenge me and I’ll pull out the ALL CAPS hammer.”

    Hahha, nice1. I loved this preface for some reason. I’ll just stick to what I said long ago, that I think it would serve the kid well to learn a bit more before we throw him in there. He sure is making a case for himself though, and he did play 4 years vs BCS quality competition.

    I will be good with whatever decision the FO makes, honest. On a side note, I prefer this Brick clip:

  92. abqhwkfn says:

    I am in complete agreement with John McGraths article. I am a long time reader and new poster. Ive been reading the insider since the Sando days. Became a Seahawks fan in 1987 when i truly began to follow the NFL at about the age of 8 or 9. I grew up in LA and despised the Raiders mostly because my entire family loved them. The Seahawks beat the Raiders that year pretty bad in the coliseum and ive been a fan ever since. These were the days of Dave Kreig, Largent, Curt Warner, John L. Williams, Easley and ummm… the Boz.. LOL. I plan on doing some posting this year so i thought id let you guys know how i became a fan. I leaving in Albuquerque NM now. Im pretty much the only fan for miles..

  93. Welcome and “pretty much the only fan for miles.” I know the feeling! That’s part of the reason I love this blog.

  94. torinaga says:


    I think I am gonna write that Hemingway saying on a wall somewhere in my house.

  95. SandpointHawk says:

    @GeorgiaHawk…quoting Ernest Hemingway on the blog?…it dates us sure, but I loved it….Takes the blog up a notch or two for sure…

    “Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. ” –Ernest Hemingway

  96. Dukeshire says:

    Welcome aboard.

  97. SandpointHawk says:

    @abqhwkfn…welcome to the club.

  98. orbeavhawk says:

    “God Bless America, and God Bless the Seattle SeaHawks!”
    Cortez Kennedy

  99. grizindabox24 says:

    Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer. — Al Bundy

  100. grizindabox24 says:

    An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools. — Ernest Hemmingway

  101. Flynn is the answer at QB – Travis Oster

  102. GeorgiaHawk says:

    abqhwkfn- Thanks for sharing. Now that I have Directv I don’t have to go to the sports bars and listen to all the abnoxious Saints fans, Packers fans and especially Stealer fans. Notice that I didn’t say Falcon fans. Falcon fans are tame compared to all the transplant fans from the north that have moved down here.

    BTW- I really like New Mexico- I was there for the first time two years ago on vacation. I saw the white sands, Carlsbad caverns and saw a pistachio garden.

  103. GeorgiaHawk says:

    grizindabox24- That’s what Dukeshire does before he debates me. Lol.

  104. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Problem is though my happy hour starts 3 hours before his so not only am I a fool, but a drunk fool before Dukeshire gets started. Not fair.Lol.

  105. Dave98373 says:

    Having two very good QB’s is something most teams dream of. But I don’t see any harm in starting Wilson against K.C. PC should worry less about who is going to start the opener at QB (still two preason games away) and focus more on replacing butterfingers (T.O.) with a third string.

  106. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Where o where could Divs chin be? bbnate420 do you know? Lol.

  107. SandpointHawk says:

    It would be nice to have a starting QB play a game with some starting receivers..just saying…

  108. Dukeshire says:

    Georgia – Perhaps we ought to debate on Fridays. Gets started pretty early out here… lol

  109. HonHawksLSB says:

    I know I am getting ahead of myself… But why can’t the Seahawks have a Joe Montana,Steve Young situation at QB?

  110. “Bevell and Schneider are in a meeting, and have been all morning, adjourning for only thirty minutes for a lunch break, and resumming the meeting with T-Jacks agent this afternoon. Phone calls have been flying in and out of this place, and everything is on the hush hush. I overheard that there may be a four or five team involvment in trade talks, much like the Mariners Jack Z’s style of a trade going on.
    There’s been a lot of talk of conditional picks, and even talk of Flynns’ conditional pick with Green Bay, should Flynn start. Owens agent has been on the phone as well, and I really have no idea what the flurry of activity is all about, but anything I do overhear must be approved by the Seahawks before I can blog it. I will get about a five minute heads up before it becomes public knowledge anyway, so I don’t know if you’ll hear it from me first, or the media.”

    Alumni post about 1pm today on scout.

    Whatcha think?

  111. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    wow i leave for a day comback and Ernest Hemingway shows up

  112. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Dukeshire- Friday it is!

  113. Dukeshire says:

    Georgia – Email Eric and ask him to shoot you my email. I need your phone number. lol

  114. bbnate420 says:

    That’s f^&*ing funny, Georgia. Seems he may have to lose the E Dub jokes soon? :-)

  115. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Dukeshire- I have your Email. Remember when I couldn’t make it to the braves game to meet Bobbyk. I will send you my phone number today/tonight whatever.

  116. HeinieHunter says:

    I’ve been mulling over the QB question off and on all day and came to a simple conclusion. Whatever PC/JS decide is good with me and I’ll support their choice strongly. No one wants to win more than they do. They “picked” both players and obviously like both of them a lot. Their decision making re personnel has been exceptional. With the start of the season days away it would be foolhardy for me to try and second guess them. Wilson or Flynn….I’m all in!
    Go Hawks!

  117. Dukeshire says:

    GeorgiaHawk – Oh right. Perfect.

  118. HeinieHunter says:

    Who is woofu? Is his information valid ?

  119. Everyone can talk which Quarterback they want all day and night then the next day.
    Until the First team O line can slow a pass rush down none of the QB’s will do very well running for their lives every pass play.
    Hoping they are just experimenting with the line and we’ll get a good surprise when the season starts.

  120. ryanryan says:

    vick just took a shot and went down…please trade us for jackson.

  121. ryanryan says:

    if only Foles falls on his face in his place…*fingers crossed

  122. VNHLNFAN says:

    That shot on Vick was right in the ribs.. I think we a have a trade partner!

  123. Palerydr says:

    Shoot Ryanryan I saw and thought the same thing. I have to admit I’m in the camp that thinks we should keep Jackson for insurance but it appears more likely he gets traded now that the real bullets have started flying and the injuries begin to happen.

  124. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Try to see it my way,
    Do I have to keep on talking Wilson till I can’t go on?
    While you see it your way,
    Run the risk of knowing that Jackson may soon be gone.
    We can work it out,
    We can work it out.

    Think of what you’re saying.
    You can get Flynn wrong and still you think that it’s alright.
    Think of what I’m saying,
    We can start Wilson now and get it straight, or say good night.
    We can work it out,
    We can work it out.
    NFL is very short, and there’s no time
    For fussing and fighting, my friend.
    I have always thought that it’s a crime,
    So I will ask you once again.

    Try to see it my way,
    Only time will tell if Wilsons right or he is wrong.
    While you see it your way
    There’s a chance that we may see Flynn start before too long.
    We can work it out,
    We can work it out.
    Life is very short, and there’s no time
    For fussing and fighting, my friend.
    I have always thought that it’s a crime,
    So I will ask you once again.

    Try to see it my way,
    Only time will tell if Wilsons right or he is wrong.
    While you see it your way
    There’s a chance that we may start Flynn before to long.
    We can work it out,
    We can work it out.

  125. bird_spit says:

    Put me in the camp that says T-Jack did not get a fair shake here, and his upside is still unknown. I have also done plenty of cussing at the video of TJ many imperfections. Who ever trades for the guy could have a diamond in the rough, because I think we never saw tjack in the best health or preparation on this team.

    I dont think tjack is any teams franchise QB, but he certainly would be a huge upgrade to many teams #2.

    Godspeed T Jackson, Godspeed..

    I bet if the team had a crystal ball, they never would have traded for Flynn, if they knew that Russ Wilson would be available, and have as much success as he is having.. Hawks could have saved 6Mill, and floated that money in front of a few WR free agents.

  126. Palerydr says:

    You say traded Bird spit however I’m sure you know we signed Flynn as a FA and saved 6mil ? I believe Flynn is making 12 mil gauranteed

  127. Soggybuc says:

    Georgia you definitely missed your calling, you should be working for Bob Rivers.

    Whatever PC/JS decide is good with me and I’ll support their choice strongly. No one wants to win more than they do.

    I’d say that one of the best statements I’ve seen on the subject. they have million dollar jobs on the line as well as their place in the games history.
    Every man who’s ever held the title of head coach is trying to win, that’s kinda the whole point of the business. even the losing coaches work 14 hours a day 7 days a week trying make it work.
    Thing is it’s really really hard to win the Superbowl even when you have a great QB, see Marino, Dan! Holmgren is a great football coach who is 1-2 in the game. so relax take a deep breath. make sure your tray is secure and your seat is in the upright position because take off is just around the corner.

  128. PopTacoma says:

    I say let Wilson start pre-3 and see how he does against an NFL defense. Those second and third string chumps he dominated in the first two games are great for warming up to the starting slot, but are no measure of starting ability. If he dominates a NFL defense for two quarters, let him start.

    I personally think this is a good problem to have. The hawks have so much talent this year they have to throw some of it away in the first and 2nd round of cuts.

  129. ryanryan says:

    bobby – allow me:

    birdspit – tjack was in the same offense for the same offensive coordinator for 7 or so years and was never better than he was last year. his head is calloused from being at his ceiling…if he hit his head any harder on his ceiling he would be on the PUP for concussion.

  130. ryanryan says:

    palerydr – i think the best thing is to trade him if only to roll over the salary cap space for next year when we will have to sign someone at another position where we don’t have two capable/serviceable starters.

  131. Soggybuc says:

    What I think would be ideal is swap them out possession to possession. with any luck we can get 6 in the first half and get 3 each to judge apples to apples.

  132. Hawksince77 says:


    This doesn’t make any sense:

    “There’s been a lot of talk of conditional picks, and even talk of Flynns’ conditional pick with Green Bay, should Flynn start.”

    There aren’t any conditional picks involved. Seattle signed Flynn as a FA, and don’t owe anyone picks for the signing.

    Also, he was guaranteed $10m, the majority of it as a $6m signing bonus. If I recall correctly, the other $4m is guaranteed salary over the next 2 seasons. The rest of the contract dollars must be based on performance.

  133. Hawksince77 says:

    There is news that Ruud was traded to New Orleans, and Dexter Davis waived.

  134. Dukeshire says:

    Perhaps he meant compensatory, because GB will likely recoup something.

  135. VNHLNFAN says:

    ryanryan just hit one out of the park..too funny

  136. Soggybuc says:

    LMAO, so we get a pick next year for a guy who was signed for the minimum as insurance should someone like Wagner not be available in the draft and or be a bust?
    John you are a freaking Genius! welcome to the club mister Wagner!

  137. GeorgiaHawk says:


  138. ryanryan – lol

  139. Great stuff Ryan Ryan. I agree, tjack may be marginally better than last year cuz he’s not injured, but when he fumbled against the niners, did that have to do with his hurt pec muscle? I think not my friends. We are going to be in a death match until the end of the season with SF for the division and/ or playoff spot, and methinks tj is not going to be a difference maker in that battle.

  140. Soggybuc says:

    With you on that XC, thats the reason I think Wilson will be better served with a year or 2 on the bench learning the pocket game.

  141. crunchmeister says:

    Way too much good stuff here today…

    Georgia, that Hemmingway quote went strait to my FB… cheers!

    STTBM, exactly.

    “Whatever PC/JS decide is good with me and I’ll support their choice strongly. No one wants to win more than they do.”

    Exactly. And, clearly these guys have proven themselves to be stong evaluators of talent.

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