Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Clemons contract details

Post by Eric Williams on Aug. 1, 2012 at 7:00 am with 73 Comments »
August 1, 2012 7:00 am

The Seattle Seahawks have the day off, and will resume practice Thursday morning. So there will be no practice report today.

Brian McIntyre of NFL.com has contract details on Seattle defensive end Chris Clemons’ contract extension.

According to the report, Clemons could earn $22 million over the next three seasons, with an additional $4 million available in base salary escalators tied to the number of sacks that he produces over the 2012 and 2013 seasons.

McIntyre reports that Clemons received a $6.5 million signing bonus, and his $2 million base salary in 2012 is fully guaranteed. So the $8.5 million more than doubles the $3.85 million in base salary and incentives Clemons could have made this season.

Clemons is due to make $6 million in 2013, but only $1.5 million of that is guaranteed. His base salary in 2014 is $7.5 million, none of which is guaranteed.

So that’s $10 million in fully guaranteed money for Clemons, with him likely making $14.5 million over the first two years of his contract if his production does not slip.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com focuses on the play of kicker Steven Hauschka in Tuesday’s practice report.

More Farnsworth: He gives us a run down on how Tarvaris Jackson performed during 2-minute drill on Tuesday, one of the areas he struggled at last year. Jackson led the first unit to field goals on both drives against the first-unit defense.

Seahawks tight end Kellen Winslow talks with ESPN’s Bob Stelton and Dave Grosby in this audio link.

Seahawks receiver Doug Baldwin talks with ESPN 710 Seattle’s Kevin Calabro and Jim Moore in this audio link.

Hall of Fame quarterback Warren Moon talks with KJR’s Dave Mahler about the quarterback position in this audio link. Moon says none of the three quarterbacks have separated themselves, and I would agree with that.

Jeremy Fowler of the Pioneer Press reports that former Seahawk tight end John Carlson suffered a sprained MCL in his knee and will be out a couple weeks.

Paul Gutierrez of CSNBayArea.com reports that former Seattle linebacker Aaron Curry has been placed on the Physically Unable to Perform (PUP) list with a knee injury.

Categories:
Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 73
  1. I guess that Clem contract was about what I expected with nothing guaranteed in the last year of it. I guess it’s a win-win but I thought he got a bit more than he should when you factor in that he had a year left on his current contract that wasn’t going to give him big bucks. This seems to be the first instance I can think of where the team caved to a certain degree.

    I’m glad Curry isn’t a Seahawk!

  2. iHateHarbaugh says:

    Curry + Carlson = comically tragic #12thMan

  3. Dukeshire says:

    You and me both, Bobby.

    Man, the first preseason game is this weekend (with the ‘Hawks not far behind). The offseason just flies by now. Love it.

  4. Hammajamma says:

    Recent report on .net has TJ still double pumping and indecisive in yesterday’s drills. No one looking good but Flynn appearing the most “settled” of the three.

  5. bird_spit says:

    Looks like Clemons made up for his 1M loss for his no-show offseason. That was predictable. So much for the lack of leverage theory. Fat CEOs and fit athletes, man, leave some for us average guys.

  6. NYHawkFan says:

    Duke, isn’t the first preseason game next Saturday, Aug. 11th? You are excited!

  7. Palerydr says:

    Got a couple of questions. First for the cap guys does incentive money count against the cap or is there a soft number teams go over?

    Second I just got a ticket for practice next Tuesday. For anyone who’s been do you recommend a camp chair? Also is there a spot to head for that might be considered best? How soon do you want to get to the Landing?

    Thx for any help here.

  8. NYHawkFan says:

    Duke, just reread your post. My mistake. With that said, the season does start next week… for Hawk fans.

  9. MarkinSeattle says:

    Birdspit, your wrote “Fat CEOs and fit athletes, man, leave some for us average guys.” I didn’t realize that the Seahawks were paying money to little guys (other than perhaps the previous regimes CB’s).

    These football players give their bodies up to play in the NFL. By the time most of these guys are 50, their bodies are so beaten up that many of them can hardly move. They have a disproportionate number of health problems, and a disproportionate number end up dying early. That isn’t even touching on the head injuries that has hit the airwaves recently. The bottom line is that their standard of living goes down dramatically after football, and it pisses me off when some lazy couch potato who probably sits at a desk for a job complains that these guys make too much money. In my book, they earn and deserve every damn penny that they make. That doesn’t even touch on the number of hours these guys have to work at maintaining their conditioning 7 days a week, 52 weeks out of the year.

    As for “fat CEO’s”, after working at a number of companies over the years, I have yet to find one CEO who didn’t work more hours than anyone in the company. Since I have worked for small and medium size companies, I also haven’t found one that hasn’t risked their life savings in their business. I have found many who have risked it all and lost everything. If you envy these cats so much, go out, take your entire life savings, borrow more money from family and friends, and start your own company. Then spend the next 5-10 years of your life driving around a half broken down car, eating at home and very cheap, and living in a very inexpensive apartment or house so you can barely make payroll each week. If you succeed, and it will be touch and go for the first 5-10 years, you will have earned every single penny you make. Of course, that would be very hard, would involve the stress of a huge amount of risk, and would require you to give up all of your creature comforts, such as going out to movies and bars, your nice car, and your 2-3 vacations every year. The fact is that there are very few rich people who didn’t have to sacrifice for many decades to get where they are, including athletes. We all make sacrifices in life, those who sacrifice the most are often the ones who get the most back. An observation, I have found that those who wish to sacrifice the least are the ones who moan and complain the most.

  10. RDPoulsbo says:

    Still not a fan of giving Clemons a contract extension. Either the team screwed up by throwing big money at a guy who can’t perform in 2013 or the team screwed up because their 1st rounder can’t beat out a 30+ year old guy for the position they’ve flat out said will play in 2013. His contract may not be guaranteed in 2014, but that signing bonus means over $2 mil in dead cap if they don’t keep him or over $9.6 mil if they do. There’s a lot of important FAs coming up, especially in 2014 that will require some cap gymnastics. Baldwin, Tate, Flynn (if he’s indeed the QB of the future), Breno, Browner, and Kam are just some of the higher profile FAs coming up in 2 years. Just an overall bad move IMO.

    So T-Jack made it into FG range in two 2 minute drives. I guess that’s improvement, but not a good sign that he can get it into the end zone in crunch time.

  11. PHXHawk says:

    MarkinSeattle…While appreciating the performance of elite athletes and any health problems that they may have, most of these guys have been pampered and idolized all there lives, have had a college education handed to them, would be gym rats anyway, should be aware of the dangers involved in a violent sport, are playing a GAME, and would be working in a carwash if not for being born with physical ability well above the rest of us.
    I agree with your CEO comments, however.

  12. raymaines says:

    CC gets a contract with two years and 10M of guaranteed money, I think that’s pretty fair. I expect he’ll earn more than 10M in two years and then be asked to restructure the contract in year three. Bye Chris. Thanks.

    The cap is likely to go way up in the next couple of years so I think there will be enough room to resign the guys they want.

    Also T-Jack is gone after this year if not sooner, and Flynn is on a two year contract so that’s some big money off the books by ’14.

  13. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Aaron Curry has been placed on the Physically Unable to Perform (PUP) list with a knee injury.

    Does anyone remember what draft pick we will get next year for Curry? And does performance and games played tie into what pick we may get?

  14. Hammajamma says:

    It’s a conditional 5th that could become a 4th based on playing time.

  15. raymaines says:

    I see that both Aaron Curry and John Carlson are dealing with knee injuries.

    I wonder what the guys in Miami that read the blogs and go to the practices are thinking when they read KW2 isn’t practicing everyday because of “knee issues”? Do they buy into the new coaches hard line mantra, or see Winslow’s production and wish the coach were more tolerant of a well documented medical situation?

    I really like that both PC & JS are secure enough that they don’t feel threatened by, and therefore, can take a chance on misfits, malcontents, and medical issues. They won’t win every gamble of course, but they’re doing pretty good so far.

  16. Dukeshire says:

    Palerydr – The short answer is that incentives are counted against the cap, if they are considered likely to be earned. (Likely to be earned incentives are any performance levels that the player has previously reached.) So in Clem’s case, let’s say he has a bonus clause if he gets 9 sacks this season. Since he had 11 last year, this would be considered likely to be earned. If the team put the bonus at say, 12, this would be considered not likely to be earned, and thus not count against the cap. You always have to look at the previous year’s performance to determine whether the bonus (incentives) will count against the cap or not. Hope this helps.

  17. Palerydr says:

    Thx Duke that did help was just trying to figure out how much money they will have available to resign Bam Bam.

  18. RDPoulsbo says:

    raymaines, I’m not sure why you think the cap will go away. It’s the cornerstone of the league’s parity they preach and brings in big bucks to all teams. T-Jack and Flynn combined are not making franchise QB money. Yes, both contracts will be up in 2014, but I’m not sure who you expect to play QB in that case. There will be some QB getting paid big bucks and eating up cap room by that time. If neither, then it’s a more likely scenario is that JS/PC get fired for not moving this team forward because of a constant merry-go-round of QBs.

  19. bird_spit says:

    MarkinSeattle – You keep defending the large contracts of the fat ass CEOs (Balmer, Chambers, a bunch of big bank cronies), and the gym rats that are over paid (that would otherwise bag groceries or do other more average jobs, like construction or whatever). I would bet given the choice of $20/hr construction job or league minimum , the NFL player would choose? Yeah easy answer.

    That said, I also know a bunch of ceos who scrapped the coin and made the money. It’s not them I would consider as making enough. You would probably agree with me if I could list about half of the fortune 500 companies CEOs. I dont have to defend myself as a couch potato working a desk job and whining. I make enough for what I do, and trust me I likely can beat you with a poker hand that comes in the form of my compensation..

    I do find that ” elite ” athletes and many ceos of public companies make way more than is reasonable. In my field I also put in 52 weeks of 24/7 support. (my form of work out) Its not the time put in..its the productive output to dollar expended that I am questioning.

    That said, it was originally tongue in cheek. You have made it into some argument that it wasnt. Go back to your desk (with the couch behind it) and take a nap. Dude I think you need it.

  20. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Thanks Hammajamma.

  21. raymaines says:

    RDPoulsbo: NOT go away. Go way up. I think the QB in ’14 will be RW, or somebody they draft next April.

  22. bbnate420 says:

    http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2012/6/18/3094750/nfl-flat-salary-cap

    I have posted stories like this before. Doesn’t seem that the cap is going to increase dramatically, as some expected, when the new TV money comes in 2014. There are many stories that say basically the same thing. Just google flay NFL salary cap.

  23. bbnate420 says:

    MarkinSeattle, while I would agree with you about athletes and MOST CEOs of small to medium companies, you just don’t seem to know what you’re talking about if you include many of the most rich CEOs and many of the wealthiest people in America. CEO pay as a ratio of their average worker is MUCH greater in the US than any other country.

    Ratio of pay for CEO vs average worker:

    Japan 11:1

    Germany 12:1

    France 15:1

    Italy 20:1

    Canada 20:1

    South Africa 21:1

    Britain 22:1

    Mexico 47:1

    Venezuela 50:1

    USA 475:1

    My guess is that no CEO works 475 times longer or more hard than his average worker. And if you think most workers get 2-3 vacations a year then you are delusional. Many people are lucky to get ANY paid vacation time.

  24. pabuwal says:

    Ain’t debt bubbles grand?

  25. HonHawksLSB says:

    Man… What’s up with all the CEO talk? Can we please get back to football. Simply put the Hawks got a steal of a trade from Philly in acquiring Clemons, he outperformed his contract during that time with back to back 11 sack seasons. The Hawks did not cave, but merely paid the guy what he is worth. Rumor has it he actually turned down the Hawks original offer which included more guaranteed money for this incentive laden deal.

    This should keep him motivated and may or may not cost the Hawks less money, however in this case I hope he maxes out this deal because that means more seasons with double digit sacks. Not to mention the fact that his contract includes less guaranteed money then Cameron Wake’s deal, but both have very similar production.

    I’m am on board with just about every decision Schneider and Pete have made since they joined the franchise! Oh which by the way includes cutting ties with Curry and Carlson.

    Hon Hawks!!

  26. bbnate420 says:

    http://creativeconflictwisdom.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/ration-of-ceo-pay-to-average-worker-by-country/

    http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/#p_1_s_arank_All%20industries_All%20states_All%20categories

    Many of the richest people in America didn’t amass their own fortune. Walton children, #’s 6, 9, 10, and 11. Mars children, 3 tied at # 20. Anne Cox Chambers, # 26. Abigail Johnson, # 29. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Koch brothers, tied at # 4, and Sheldon Attelson, # 8, spend in the 10′s of millions of dollars every election cycle to legally bribe politicians since the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling. Shockingly, the Koch brothers were financial backers of the PAC Citizens United. Sheldon Attelson is currently being investigated for bribing political officials in China, so it seems he MAY like to both legally and illegally bribe politicians. You think if he spends enough money on Romney, that might make the federal investigation go away?

  27. bbnate420 says:

    Sorry, back to football, I just can’t let BS go without a response.

    I think the Clemons deal is fair and worth it for the team. Even if Irvin does start at Leo in 2013, we still need a formidable rusher on the other side. Jason Jones only signed a one year deal. If he has a good year they may not be able to bring him back. If the cap only modestly goes up in the future, as is being forecasted by the NFL, then every team is going to have to make tough choices. I don’t understand how the Eagles can afford all these contracts? They might be in for trouble.

  28. Dukeshire says:

    This is the type of conversation I’d expect in May, not August. Oh well.

    I’m not sure Jones, regardless of contract, factors into the equation at LDE, 2013 and beyond. Sounds like they see him as situational 3-tech as opposed to situational DE. So finding a situational LDE, again 2013 or so, and beyond, would seem to be a hole at this point. One thing at a time, however.

  29. bbnate420 says:

    I wasn’t saying that Jason Jones was going to play LDE, although I believe he has said that he would rush from the outside and inside. I was just pointing to him as someone expected to provide pass rush that may not be here next year.

  30. RDPoulsbo says:

    Well, it does sound like Jaye Howard could very well be in the plans as an interior pass rusher in the future. Time will tell if he pans out but early indications are promising.

  31. PugetHawk says:

    Boom! Well said BBNate420. Layin facts down, not just some pissing and moaning opionion. 475 is ridiculous. Not even close to any of those other countries listed. 20:1 seems fair to me.

  32. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I’m the CEO of my man cave and I don’t make squat, however I decide when happy hour is for all of my staff!( All one of them ).

    Does anyone else see Sweezy developing into a decent guard down the road?
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Carpitt ends up being solid backups. So long as we have good starters I really don’t care.

  33. Dukeshire says:

    “Does anyone else see Sweezy developing into a decent guard down the road?”

    Impossible to say until I see games. Camp reports however, have been fairly positive.

  34. bbnate420 says:

    Seems like all the reports I’ve read about Sweezy are positive. Seems like he’s a lock for the PS if he can’t make the 53.

    I’m so breezy,
    Makin pancakin fools look easy,
    Keepin my rhymes tight like Young Jeezy,
    You know who dis is,
    It’s J.R. Sweezy.

    A poor attempt at a GeorgiaHawk poem.

  35. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Come on Dukeshire, put yourself out on a limb more often. Lol. I remember though last year that many of us were high on LeGree before the games started, and look how that turned out.

    BTW- For limb climbers out there, what player do you think will make the biggest impact this year? 1-5.
    And forget about waiting for the games to start! I want opinions, not facts! I want wags and swags! Lol.

  36. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I like that bbnate420!

    And for all those that are tired of the songs I will do my best to restrain myself, especially during happy hour!

    Now that will all change if we go to the Superbowl! Lol.

  37. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    bbnate lets keep it to football that crap goes on on both sides of the isle and it’s BS to even bring that in here.

  38. GeorgiaHawk says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma- It was bird_spit that brought that in here first. Lol.

  39. Dukeshire says:

    GeorgiaHawk – I was one of those. But then again, LeGree wasn’t being asked to play a different position, on the other side of the LOS. lol. Has nothing to do with going out on a limb, for my part.

  40. GeorgiaHawk says:

    OK, I will answer my own question then-

    1- Thomas- I think Thomas will have a super season and catapult himself over polamalu for best saftey in the NFL.

    2- Baldwin- Mr steady eddie! Baldwin may not be the flashiest player on the team, or the most athletic, however he has the highest (it factor) of all the players, imo.

    3- Lynch- Beast mode will only get better as our o-line gets better.

    4- Okung- Time to establish himself as a top five LT.

    5- Flynn- I know, I want RW to win the qb battle, however it is Flynn who will either start the season and/or be a valuable back up. But most importantly he will give the Seahawks insurance to ship Jackson out and possibly recoup the 3rd round pick that we lost for Whitehurst.

  41. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Will be mia for a few days,( dam house sitting!) So please all you camp reporters keep reporting! I can get on the blog with my phone, however I won’t be as brave as Dukeshire and try to post with my phone.Lol.

    BTW- Dukeshire, it is easy for me to go out on a limb from time to time, because I fell out of my family tree along time ago and hit just about every branch on the way down! Lol.

  42. Palerydr says:

    Ok Georgia here’s my 5

    1) The starting QB will have the biggest impact on the team
    2) KJ Wright he appears to be stepping up as a leader of the D
    3) Lynch/Turban they will need to tote the rock to take pressure off the QB.
    4) Okung I agree he needs to step it up this year.
    5) I really like Durham however it appears he’s not taking advantage of his opportunity so I go with Ricardo Lockette.

    I disagree with anyone who thinks if Jackson doesn’t win the starting job that we will trade/cut him. He’s too valuable to us as a back up. Wilson is a rookie and maybe he will be good enough to start sometime in the future however I don’t see that happening this year.

  43. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Palerydr- I like your 1 and 2, and I really hope you are right on your 1!

  44. bbnate420 says:

    Thanks for the backup, Georgia. I think your songs are amusing. Keep’em coming. If someone doesn’t like them, they can always chose to not read them. Crazy, I know.

    hawkfaninoklahoma, as Georgia said, I didn’t bring it up. And I also had stopped posting about it. Even said, “back to football”. You’re the one that brought it up again. Really I think bird_spit was making a joke, and MarkinSeattle got a bur where the sun don’t shine.

    Yes, I know there is BS on both sides of the aisle. But to claim that billionaires are spending equally on both sides is just factually incorrect. I won’t belabor the point with facts, I know how some loathe them, but they are out there if you want to do a simple Google search. And it’s not just a liberal/progresive thing. My dad is a conservative and isn’t a fan of the Citizens United decision either, even though it helps his side more. It’s up to you whether or not you care about the voce of the many drowned out by a small number of super rich.

  45. bbnate420 says:

    *choose

  46. bbnate420 says:
  47. bird_spit says:

    Ok, back to football. I dont have a beef with highly paid athletes. I hate guaranteed money in the contracts. I’m all for performance based money. We should pay Clemons whatever (some dollar amount) per tackle, or per loss yards, whatever. But I’d like to hear a good argument for that much guaranteed money.

    Its like saying to the widget maker, here is this years, and next years salary, but I really want double the widgets made. Please, pretty please help the junior widget maker be a better widget maker.

    Luckily, its Paul Allen’s money, so it makes it easier to spend.

  48. bbnate420 says:

    Not sure that in a game like football paying entirely based on stats in realistic. Maybe baseball. The impact of someone like Red Bryant is totally missed if you just look at his stats.

    1-5 players that will make more of an impact than expected. Chose not to list obvious people like ET and Lynch.

    1. K.J. Wright

    2. Golden Tate

    3. Ricardo Lockette

    4. Bobby Wagner

    5. Robert Turbin

  49. GeorgiaHawk says:

    K.J. Wright keeps coming up!

    That would be great to happen!

    Top five D!!!!!!!

  50. Hammajamma says:

    Going to need an all pro season from KJ to make the top five. I know they like him on the outside because he’s so big in space, can crowd the line and blitz in combination off the edge. But what do they do if Wagner isn’t ready and Ruud can’t play? Does he move over?

    I’ll just say that it wouldn’t surprise me to see a lot of movement in the LB corp this season.

  51. pabuwal says:

    Lockette – the Seahawks lack a Home Run hitter that teams fear and just about all great teams have one. Where would the Giants have been last year without Cruz? His emergence or Braylon Edwards finding his form of 2 years ago is the only way the Seahawks WR group ends up above average. This unit is the biggest weakness of the team.

  52. Soggybuc says:

    I’d say keep an eye on Jaye Howard, he might not make a big impact this year but I see him much like Mebane, unheralded but on a solid upward path to be a key player on the d-line very soon.
    Winston Guy?, sure seems that this regime can find secondary talent like no other.

  53. raymaines says:

    5 players that will make more of an impact than expected.

    5. Giacomini
    4. Flynn
    3. Rice
    2. Leroy Hill, and
    1. Steve Hauschka.

    Nobody ever expects anything from a kicker, but he puts up about 1/3 of the total points scored in a season, is responsible for some really clutch points, and forces touchbacks.

  54. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    bbnate,sorry i missed the earlier comment, and my last comment on the subject, in 08 it was the other way around can’t have it both ways. and all the money in the world can’t drown out the small guy if they band together to be heard”tea party” just an idea.

    on to football can not wait for the first preseason game!

  55. Dukeshire says:

    I would love to see Lockette continue his development, but it’s Rice and his health that elevated this corp from average, in my view. When healthy, he’s one of the best receivers in the league.

  56. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    and the million dollar question is ,”can he stay healthy” i sure hope so.

  57. Dukeshire says:

    Lockette, Baldwin, and Rice… I would live it.

  58. Dukeshire says:

    Love…

    BTW- Georgia, only on iPhone about half the time.

  59. bbnate420 says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma, I’m not trying to have it both ways. Yes, Obama outspent McCain in 2008, but that was BEFORE the Citizens United ruling. Ruling came January 21, 2010. He was limited to 5,000 a donor in 2008. Now it is unlimited and there is much less disclosure. Republicans outspent Democrats 2 to 1 in 2010. Romney is clearly outspending Obama this time and we won’t know the final figures until the end. Sheldon Attelson has said that he may donate 100 million by himself. Scott Walker outspent his opponent by about 8 to 1 in his recall election. It wouldn’t matter if most of the electorate was informed and engaged, but sadly that is not the case. If you don’t think money spent plays a major role in who gets elected then you don’t know the statistics. They are overwhelming. There are some conservatives that don’t like Citizens United either. David Stockman, Reagan’s budget director, being one. It seems you are not well versed on this if you don’t know the difference between 2008 and now.

    By the way, the Tea Party is hardly just a grass roots group of common people. The aforementioned Koch brothers are the financial backers of a number of supposed “citizen groups” that organize and wield power in the Tea Party.

    Look, both parties are own by big money. Since the Citizens United ruling, the area code 10023 which is the financial district of Manhattan has contributed as much to political campaigns as the lowest contributing 24 states COMBINED. This won’t change without a constitutional amendment.

  60. bbnate420 says:
  61. Dukeshire says:

    Perhaps you two can exchange emails and continue this off-board. We’re hardly in the dulldroms of the offseason any longer, where we’re looking for Seahawk related items to discuss.

  62. bbnate420 says:

    Don’t see how this would stop you or anyone else from discussing the Hawks?

  63. bbnate420 says:

    Regardless, I’m done posting about it unless provoked.

  64. Dukeshire says:

    It doesn’t, but that’s hardly the point, as I’m sure you’re aware. Many of us have taken off-topic discussions to our private emails, when they begin to hijack the thread / blog, as a political conversation can. It’s a matter of courtesy.

  65. Does Walter Jones still play for the Seahawks (trying to change the topic… lol)?

  66. bbnate420 says:

    He does Bobby. He plays under the name Okung now.

    I don’t really agree Duke in this instance, but I see your point and as I have said I am done. I didn’t inject it into the thread and I’ve said my piece. Besides, we have better topics like the tax code to discuss! ;-)

  67. bird_spit says:

    TJ absolutely sucks..does Flynns dishes on his nights. Wilson is stirring the pudding.
    There really isn’t much to discuss with out games. Damn we need some football.

  68. MarkinSeattle says:

    Dukeshire, for the record, that is why I refrained from responding. My initial post was a reaction to what I saw as a diversion into politics. If it was intended as being toungue, as was mentioned above, then I apologize for going off on a tangent.

    Nate, I would be happy to debate you over email, as I have a response to most of your posts. Although I know it won’t convince either of us to change our positions, I am sure that it will at least get the testosterone pumping.

    As for the pay of football players, I fully believe that they earn every penny (which is pertinent to the post). But even if they don’t, I don’t begrudge them every single penny. It is America, and if you can earn money honestly, that is simply being opportunistic in my book. No different than Hollywood actors making $20m+ for movies that suck, or someone winning the lottery. Congrats for making out, and I wish them the best. However, I wouldn’t trade the millions these guys make for the reduced life span of an average NFL player. So from that perspective, I believe they are underpaid. I will also return to focusing on the strengths of the team rather than this philosophical question.

  69. Dukeshire says:

    Lol, no apology necessary. And I’ve been guilty of engaging in far off-topic debates as well. It may not have been my place to say anything, but thought it best to say that anyway, before things got too far.

  70. bbnate420 says:

    MarkinSeattle, I don’t really see the point. Let’s just keep it football related. I laid out my opinion, backed up by facts, so you know where I’m coming from. I’m pretty sure I know any argument you’re going to make anyways. As I said, my father is a conservative, so I have argued related issues with him, and others, many times over. We agree about athletes and the majority of small business owners anyways.

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