Seahawks Insider

Hawks release Mike Williams

Post by Eric Williams on July 13, 2012 at 2:13 pm with 115 Comments »
July 13, 2012 5:43 pm
Seattle Seahawks receiver Mike Williams. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

Apparently the Seattle Seahawks were not willing to wait until training camp to see if Mike Williams would get healthy.

The team announced that Williams has been released this afternoon, making the 28-year-old an unrestricted free agent.

Williams was due to make $3 million in 2012, including a $250,000 roster bonus, in the second year of a three-year, $11.25 million deal. According to salary cap expert Brian McIntyre, The Seahawks will save $3.425 million off this year’s salary cap in releasing Williams.

“We would like to thank Mike for his contributions over the past two seasons and we wish him well in the future,” said General Manager John Schneider.

After spending two years out of the league, Williams signed as unrestricted free agent in 2010 and revamped his career in Seattle, starting 23 of 26 games for the Seahawks and finishing with 83 receptions for 987 yards with five touchdowns, including a long of 68 yards.

He earned mention as the league’s comeback player of the year in 2010, when he led the Seahawks with 65 catches for 751 yards and two touchdowns.

But Williams had trouble staying healthy last season, finishing with just 18 catches. Williams finished the year on the injured reserve after breaking his ankle against Chicago on December 18, and was unable to fully participate in Seattle’s offseason workout program because he was still rehabbing from that injury.

Williams’ number of targets also decreased from a team-high 110 in 2010 to 38 last year.

Williams was originally the 10th overall pick in the 2005 NFL Draft by the Detroit Lions and signed as a free agent with Seattle on April 16, 2010 and signed an extension on January 3, 2011. He also spent time with Oakland and Tennessee during the 2007 season.

The release of Williams opens up the competition for the starting split end job opposite Sidney Rice, with veterans Ben Obomanu and Deon Butler battling with youngsters Golden Tate, Kris Durham and Ricardo Lockette for the starting job.

Cuts and waivers
Leave a comment Comments → 115
  1. Apparently, Carroll doesn’t blame Jackson for Williams poor performance last year. It seems it might be the other way around.

  2. trout_hound says:

    Big Mike, thanks for the effort. It was fun to watch you play. You were like a man among boys out there at times. Get healthy and trim and maybe we’ll see you on the field again somewhere. God bless.

  3. chuck_easton says:

    Odd that this happens now. Can’t be the ankle unless there was an injury settlement reached. I hope it wasn’t an issue with weight. If he’s not battling the pounds he might catch on somewhere else.

    Rooted for him hard in 2010 and I wish him the best in his effort to land somewhere else.

  4. wallinator says:

    It’s sad that a guy like BMW couldn’t be consistent and have a long NFL career. He has tons of talent, and for parts of his football life he has been unstoppable. The only good thing for Williams is that his bank account balance should be huge. Once again it’s gut check time for Williams and we’ll see if he will be given yet another chance in the NFL.

  5. Dukeshire says:

    My first reaction was shock. Then, moments later, not shocked at all. There really didn’t seem to be a future for him here considering Carroll’s desire for youth, and speed. That said, implying that Carroll somehow feels Williams was at all responsible for Jackson’s struggles, seems like an incredible stretch, to me. If Carroll hadn’t signed a FA QB and then drafted another, and perhaps showed that he felt Jackson was the future at the position, then maybe. Again, just how I see it.

  6. mindnbrad says:

    Best of luck in your future, BMW. Awesome to watch you the last few years!

  7. Sorry that I won’t see him in a Seahawks uni this coming season. I’m a little puzzled by this, but I’m hoping that this is just PC and JS looking ahead, seeing where they think things will stand, and doing well by BMW by giving him as much time as possible to land with another team in time for training camps to begin. Good luck Mr. Williams…give them a call in Tennessee!

  8. I didn’t see him on the team in ’12 so this isn’t a big shock.

  9. freedom_X says:

    The statement “it was the other way around” might be much too strong a conjecture to make. But it’s definitely a strong affirmation that management thought Williams was responsible for Williams’ poor 2011 peformance, not Tarvaris Jackson.

    The one comment that would usually prod me into throwing in on the blog was when someone would say Williams suffered because of Jackson, that Jackson needed to throw to Williams even if he was blanketed in coverage.

    It was unfathomable to me how someone could see it that way, and my view would appear to be in line with how the coaching staff viewed things.

    The other explanation might be that Williams has had a really bad, unrevealed off-season incident (unlikely in this day and age where we know what a person had for lunch on a given day.)

  10. freedom_X says:

    Since Williams washed out of Tennessee before he came to Seattle, it really would be interesting if the Titans signed up him up again. Despite popular belief, Hasselbeck didn’t throw regularly to a blanketed Williams.

    Williams actually got some separation when he had his good 2010 season. Maybe not as much as a Wes Welker, but he would at least get a step of clearance and then let his frame do the rest.

    If Williams is to make a 3rd comeback, he’ll have to lose 20 pounds and stay healthy.

  11. seahawk44 says:

    They might keep 7 on the roster: Rice, Tate, Baldwin, Butler, Obomanu, Durham, Lockette

  12. Mike Williams was responsible for Tavaris Jackson’s play. I though the position of quarterback was for him to get the ball to Mike Jackson which he clearly did not.

  13. Wow. For me this comes as a huge surprise. I knew it was a possibility in the final round of cuts, but would have never dreamed it would come this early.

  14. yellaman says:

    No suprise to me, BMW was going to have trouble even making the team out of training camp this year and with all the WR’s in camp. He also became a salary cap casualty IMO. I think that healthy, salary, and numbers at the WR position cost him his spot. So good luck BMW finding another team

  15. Ewalters7354 says:

    Whelp T-Jack your next buddy!Can’t think of anyway he wins the job as starting Qb.There are two guys that will make him look bad and if he doesn’t take a pay cut he’s outta here.

  16. I am surprised that this came early – They must not have been happy with his efforts to lose weight/get healthy/in shape. Otherwise why not let him come to camp

    To answer some previous post there are a few reasons I have list Butler as a possible cut this year. 1. Has not totally stayed healthy 2. His game speed does not seem to match his pure speed 3. He doesn’t seem fit the body type/style of receiver that PC likes.

    I like the guy but like we all do here – trying to read into what team does leads me to think he is at the lower end of the list. But he might not be.

    I am not going to get worked up about any of these guys getting cut (Well Obo – but only because of his high value on ST)

    The guys I think are safe
    Rice, Baldwin, Tate, Obo (only because of his contributions on ST)

    Fighting for 2 spots (IMO)
    – everyone else

  17. SkeleTony says:

    I won’t go out on the proverbial limb that says T-jax was the primary reason for Williams’ poor performance last year…but I think it odd that Williams was released before we got rid of the sorry QB that was unable to get ANYONE the ball. Would have been nice to see what would have happened with Matt Flynn at the helm.

  18. HawkyHann says:

    Obomanu next? We know he’s mediocre at best

  19. Dukeshire says:

    greggd – That a wildly hyperbolic. Sorry, but as a general statement, simply not true.

    HawkyHann – I’d be a bit surprised, and his value, considering all he can do (play all three WR positions, and special teams at a capable level, at worst, makes him far more than mediocre). Now, if he’s outplayed by some of the unproven receivers this summer, then yes. But he’ll not be a “down-time” casualty, as Williams was.

  20. Baldwin had good numbers and so did Rice when healthy. BMW had a tough year with injuries, but other Wr didn’t so how is it TJ’s fault he didn’t produce, or stay healthy?

  21. HawkyHann says:

    Obo is past his prime…which was average, nothing he does is exciting. I hear you on playing three spots but lets hope the young bucks step up.come on Tate and Durham…

  22. Obo is beyond average on ST. Every team in the NFL needs some WR, LB, DB’s who are roll players at their positions but make a strong showing on ST.

    We saw in that SF game what not being able to cover kicker returners in the NFL. Right now we are above average on Those units right now and I do not believe we can afford to take a step back there until the Off. has proven it can be better

  23. JMSeaTown says:

    I wanna see what Durham can do… I think the acquisition of Winslow hurt BMW the most. Winslow will be running similar routes and the Hawks have a solid group of young, fast, & hungry WRs opposite Rice. Keywords: young, fast

  24. HawkyHann says:

    Ok, if he makes team it’s for special teams, not because he is an exciting WR. I’ll puke it Sidney gets hurt and we have to see him start at wideout again. That is the worst. I’m hopeful that Durham, Butler, and Tate can be the guys behind Baldwin and Rice- assuming that guy can actually play in games consistently.

  25. chuck_easton says:

    My instinct is telling me we haven’t heard the whole story on BMW. Why release him two weeks before the start of camp?

  26. Ewalters7354 says:

    I don’t understand why some are so down on Obo.He is a solid option at WR and he does what he is told.He is also a valuable asset on ST.I think he makes the team.

  27. confucious says:

    He’s probably out of football shape, and I doubt that nhe found any speed in the offseason. Let’s face it, his first year was good and productive. Last year he looked out of place on the field. He looked overwieght and slow. Another outstanding decision by pc and js.

  28. JMSeaTown says:

    Chuck: “My instinct is telling me we haven’t heard the whole story on BMW. Why release him two weeks before the start of camp?”

    This frees up cap room to get Chris Clemons signed… I’m thinkin they’re gonna go with a 3 yr/$19-20 mill

  29. Hawksince77 says:

    Just one thought (although not one I hold with a ton of conviction): perhaps this is a cut/resign at a lower price. He probably clears waivers because anyone who picks him up picks up his contract. As some pointed out when it was signed, it was a bit rich.

    Maybe like Trufant he comes back cheaper to compete for a spot.

    Or maybe not…

  30. Some people would like to keep the best players at all positions and think they are good/better. They don’t understand that you need good players for the special teams, too. Then when the special teams lose games for you, they throw their arms up in the air and complain about having a bad unit like that. I like Obo b/c he’s a young vet, yet a vet nevertheless. He’s smart, knows all WR positions, etc. When every other WR on your roster is 25 or younger, you need someone with a little experience and that’s what Obo has. They had really better be stocked with an upgrade in kick coverage talent in other areas (safety, linebacker, etc.) if they are going to kick Obo to the curb (which I don’t think they’ll do). I wouldn’t be overly surprised if Lockette gets “hurt” in training camp, if all others remain healthy, and has to be put on IR for the season.

  31. HawkyHann says:

    I’m with you Chuck, something went wrong with BMW.

    eWalters- since we used a 2nd and 4th round pick on Tate and Durham I want to see them play, not Obo. Just want some new blood in there, plus i like Butlers speed

  32. “Baldwin had good numbers and so did Rice when healthy. BMW had a tough year with injuries, but other Wr didn’t so how is it TJ’s fault he didn’t produce, or stay healthy?”

    Because T-Jax could not even get to his second check down, and it was to obvious that Williams was not his favorite one or even 3…

    Go Russell Williams

    Go away T-Jack

    Good Luck BMW!

  33. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Mike Williams is released?

    Happy days are here again!

    So long sad times
    Go along bad times
    We are rid of you at last
    Howdy gay times
    Cloudy gray times
    You are now a thing of the past
    Happy days are here again
    The skies above are clear again
    Now we got to release Jackson too again
    So let’s sing a song of cheer again
    Happy days are here again
    Altogether shout it now
    There’s no one
    Who can doubt it now
    So let’s tell the world about it now
    Tate is on the Curry watch for now
    Happy days are here again
    Your cares and troubles are gone
    There’ll be no more from now on
    From now on…
    Happy days are here again
    Wilson or Flynn will kick a$$ my friend
    The skies above are clear again
    So, Let’s sing a song of cheer again
    Happy times
    Happy nights
    Happy days
    Are here again!

    Go Seahawks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  34. boucherm says:

    I agree that BMW suffered playing w/ T-Jack. One thing Tarvaris never showed is that he’s comfortable fitting the ball into tight windows, and that’s about the only way Mike gets completions. T-Jack has the arm for it, doesn’t seem to have the anticipation/confidence, or maybe was just told he was not to take any chances.
    Mike is never going to get great separation, he’s just not that guy. His strength is to use that big body and giant catch radius to box out DBs.

    I’m not too surprised by the move, thought maybe they would PUP him and address the roster problem after 6 weeks, like they did W/ D. Butler last year, but I can see deciding that his cost was just too much. Wouldn’t be shocked to see him back at some point in the future, although I think K. Durham was drafted to fill the same role, and Rice has some similar traits, as well.

  35. Dukeshire says:

    Problem here isn’t numbers, at receiver, it’s positions. Seattle has no true or proven split end. Rice can play there, but they would like to move him around. Obo can, but he’s not particularly dynamic, although versatile. Durham? Maybe. Baldwin is an ideal slot receiver. Butler isn’t physical enough. Lockette? Again, perhaps but seems a better fit at flanker. Tate is a slot / flanker. Carroll clearly feels they have better options than Williams, unless Chuck is right and there is more to the story, but from here, there is a void at X position now.

  36. Georgia – It must be happy hour? lol

  37. bbnate420 says:

    Georgia, is song writing your past time after a few beers?

    Duke, to quote yourself, “Don’t feed the trolls or their stupid comments”. With regard to greggd.

    Chuck, maybe Williams has finally passed a physical and that is why they were now able to release him? Plus, I think PC would want to give him time to catch on with another team if they knew there wasn’t much chance in keeping him. It is somewhat strange to me that they didn’t have him come to camp though.

    Although this makes Butler’s chances of making the team look better, they also put more of a premium on the size of a Durham IMO. Unless they want to chance trying to get Lockette to the PS, I think Butler has to beat out Tate or there to be an injury for him to make the team. I don’t think he beats Obo for the aforementioned reasons.

  38. bbnate420 says:

    *pastime 8)

  39. freedom_X says:

    If Tarvaris Jackson was the reason why Mike Williams had a bad year, then explain why the front office has just cut Williams?

  40. RDPoulsbo says:

    I never felt he was going to make the team, but I am surprised by the timing. I don’t think it’s a weight/physical issue because CBA rules mean no contact between coaches and trainers right now. It is possible it’s a move to clear cap room for Clemons.

    Obo is pretty much a lock on this team as Rice or Baldwin. People may not like him because he’s not flashy, but he knows all the positions and is a standout on ST. That’s especially valuable given the weak coverage units last year and a group of WRs that are mostly unproven, have injury concerns and not nearly as versatile. One guy goes down, he can be plugged in.

    I’m hoping Durham wins the starting spot since he’s a faster version of BMW even if he’s a little smaller. That way Obo can be the #4 and go in whenever someone needs a breather or injury should occur.

  41. jawpeace says:

    Well BMW never got wide open so TJ did not throw to him. While Matt H. would throw to him despite the coverage putting the ball where BMW could go get it. Matt trusted his big wide out, while TJ. would rather take a sack than throw to someone who looked covered. As a result of this and a nasty toe injury (before breaking his ankle) Williams stats took a serious dive. Back almost to full health and a QB who will trust him his stats should go back up. Also he was a good mentor and help to the younger wide outs. GOOD LUCK BMW.

  42. Even if Durham isn’t thicker than BMW, I bet he’ll do a better job against CBs who’ll want to try to jam him. I really soured on BMW after the Bears play-off game when he got physically owned by a much smaller defender that got in his face.

  43. freedom_X says:

    That’s the frequent claim, that Hasselbeck just threw it in Williams’ direction whether he was open or not and Williams mystically would come down with it.

    If that were actually anything close to reality – why is it, with Hasselbeck in 2010 – why is it Williams was distinctly ineffective as a red zone target? A whopping 2 TD’s scored out of 65 catches. And Seattle really needed scoring in 2010.

    If Williams was so capable of bringing down balls no matter what the coverage was, you’d think Hasselbeck would have targeted Williams in the red zone. Of course, the truth is that that jump ball stuff was not what was happening. That wasn’t why Mike Williams had 65 catches in 2010.

  44. boucherm says:

    FreedomX–he was due to be paid way more than his current value to the team.
    He’s (presumably) not yet healthy, and may or may not be full go in 2 weeks for camp.
    My guess is that they are also wanting to give opportunities to younger guys anyways, and he would be caught in a numbers crunch. I know Duke mentioned above the lack of a true split end now, but with all the varieties in formation I think that is less of an issue than in the past, and that the promise of someone like Lockette or Durham is just more appealing.

  45. RDPoulsbo says:

    Remember that in 2010, the Hawks had Bates as the OC. It seemed the only route in the entire playbook was slants. You don’t need much separation running a slant route as much as position. Besides injury issues, I’d guess the change to Bevell effected his production much more than Hass vs. T-Jack. He just couldn’t run routes which required he gained any separation.

    Yeah, that Bears game was brutal. How does a big guy like that get owned by a CB half his size? And for a split end of all the WR positions to be slapped around at that is just embarrassing.

  46. With Durham and Lockette competing at the X, what was BMW going to give us besides be a veteran locker room presence? He had a great work ethic, he showed great leadership with the young players, but I still maintain that the main reason BMW looked so good in 2010 was really Hasselbeck zipping the ball into William’s hands with that magic Hasselbeck timing.

    We now have Kellen Winslow Jr to fulfill that role of the short pass route sure-hands guy. We have tall Chris Durham to provide the sure hands on jump balls in the end zone. We have Lockette to provide speed on the outside… What was BMW going to contribute, really?

    Good luck to him. He was a high-character guy and filled a role when we needed him.

  47. HawkfaninMT says:

    So lets spend some money…

    I think they should show Clemmons some money. I feel the offer they reportedly made was fair, but this allows for another M guaranteed if that gets him in camp.

    I would love to see some extensions worked on for Okung, ET, Kam, and Unger.

    Of course money must be saved to pick up other teams cuts, and also FAs that are still out there. One that comes to mind (while aging) is Eric Stienbach. i know the Hawks were looking into him when he was 1st released

  48. BMW was my favorite player (after Hass left), so I’m really disappointed with this. Really wish he’d been given a chance to compete in training camp. It’s probably a combination of BMW not looking ready to play this season and the young guys looking really good. It’s clear that PC has no loyalties to USC guys. That’s a good thing, but I’ll be sad to see Tatupu and BMW playing elsewhere.

  49. A few things regarding Williams –

    1.) He is healthy enough to avoid an injury settlement.

    2.) Something has been up with him for a while now. He deleted his twitter account a while back without explanation. This was strange because he tweets constantly. He just vanished.

    3.) He may have been an alright guy and helped young WR’s, but he definitely had an ego and a sense of entitlement. I wouldn’t be surprised if attitude was among the list of “cons” that led to his release.

    This really doesn’t surprise me, and neither does the short statement released by Schneider that accompanied Williams release. Like I said before, the Kellen Winslow acquisition meant the writing was on the wall for Williams. His work ethic and commitment weren’t commented upon much, which is probably just as telling as anything, given his history. With any other player, I wouldn’t think much of the front office commenting on their commitment, but in this case, it would have been apropos. Also, I’ve heard them comment on just about everyone else.

    At least this way he gets a chance to find a team willing to take him on for the season. Our front office is great at making extremely cutthroat decisions that may not resonate well in the locker room with a fair degree of class. Remember the Jerheme Urban situation a few years back? I’m sure Duke does. That was a case of a cutthroat decision being handled in the wrong way and hearing about it.

  50. CDN_C_Hawk says:

    IMO…I doubt, Rice will be healthy for 8 games, and better to see if we can get a 4th or 5th rounder for him. Jackson is to slow in his check downs, someone always needs a mediocre back-up. I liked Williams height, and, Wilson could be very effective with WR’s with height.
    I agree, signing Winslow, is a big part of , Williams release, but I think, another team (Denver) will like his height.

  51. Goodness gracious a Urban reference!

    It has been said that this O likes the vertical game. BMW was not going to provide that. They have been moving in this direction for some time and the revolving door just got oiled.

  52. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I’m not really against or for BMW, ( Dam Texas Margaritas get me every time!), however I won’t miss his silly whatever you call it thing he did after he made a catch.

  53. montanamike2 says:

    I think what really got him canned was wearing a Thunder jersey during the NBA playofs. Dude get a clue! No but seriously the cut was expected but it was a little earlier than than i would have thought. He’s git time to catch on with another team. I’m excited to see Lockette or Durham step into the #2.

  54. Carson mentioned:

    2.) Something has been up with him for a while now. He deleted his twitter account a while back without explanation. This was strange because he tweets constantly. He just vanished.

    I noticed that too, he was a heavy user of twitter and left without a trace. Interesting, I believe it was right around mini-camp time (Not sure about that) Hmmmm!

  55. Hammajamma says:

    This surprised me a bit initially. If the dude could play, I think they keep him. But with his injuries and Winslow available to do similar things, his money now goes to Clemons. Happy birthday Chris Durham.

  56. Dukeshire says:

    Carson – I do remember that. Urban getting released was not a popular move, in the locker room. Hasselbeck was especially outspoken about it. I wonder however if the Williams decision resonates that same way. That said, I agree with your thoughts there.

  57. dirtbiker_joey says:

    It’s too bad, I thought he was a guy who had all the tools. Another example of unreached potential? Let’s hope some of the potential on this roster turns into performance.

  58. I really liked Ruskell up to that point but then that’s when you could tell what a douche he was. There’s “business” sometimes, but then there’s common sense too. After telling Hutch he’d get his contract settled and then never doing anything about it all season, that’s when I soured on him really bad (and I would have left too, just as most of you would in your job if you worked for an asshole).

  59. Palerydr says:

    This offense is going to hit you in the mouth play after play early in the game. They will get the safeties to come in a step and in the NFL that’s all you need to exploit them. You need raw speed on the outside to accomplish that and BMW just doesn’t have that. Lockette, Rice and Durham all have that speed to hit big plays on play action. This will also open up space underneath for the 10-15 yard check downs.

  60. Dukeshire says:

    Bobby – lol!

    If nothing else, let’s just hope that Lockette and or Durham can beat press coverage at the X. If so, that’s a net gain right there.

  61. Going up against Big Sherm and Browner every day won’t hurt any of these guys in that dept Duke.

  62. Dukeshire says:

    Good point. I thought about that too. And we’ve read already how contentious it can get, just in OTAs. Will be fun as hell to watch develop.

  63. Palerydr says:

    Going against our defense in practice everyday as a whole should improve our offense.

  64. piperfeltcher says:

    I thought that Tate showed the last few weeks of the season that he can be productive and with Winslow signing there is less of a need for a tall slow receiver. Obo is good at special teams but he cost the Hawks games with his drops last year and his 2 drops against SF in the 2nd game against them last year most likely cost the Hawks that game and a shot at the playoffs. I am hoping the receivers stay healthy and the young kids continue to develop and it leads to Obo being cut.

  65. Ewalters7354 says:

    CDN_C…dude are you serious??Trade Rice for a 4th??Wow…I believe he will stay healthier this season being that he is coming into camp at 215.

  66. We’re blaming Obo for missing the play-offs? I guarantee that we can go back to a couple plays from every starter and say they cost this team a shot at the play-offs, too. IMO, Earl Thomas is our best player, regardless of position, but I guarantee that I could go back and look at every play of his last season and find 2 plays that he didn’t make that cost this team a chance at the play-offs, as well. If we want to blame anyone for missing the play-offs, we should blame them for not resigning Hasselbeck. Nobody was dumb enough to let Tarvaris start for them, so there’s no reason in hell that the Seahawks couldn’t have signed him to back up Matt (and play when Matt was hurt). However, if we did that, we would have picked later than #15 and wouldn’t have drafted Irvin (since the Jets were set to take him at #16). For every action there’s a reaction.

  67. pipe – Just to be clear, you think that special teams don’t cost anyone any wins, right? Who cares if someone is good at special teams? That shouldn’t factor into their roster spot? I guarantee that most teams would suck on special teams if they only kept their best players at respective positions if no consideration was made to special teams.

  68. ruminator1 says:

    To me the sad part of the Williams story is the failure of a good second chance, a feel good story turned sour. Very hard to know the truth here, whether there were issues behind the scene that we are not privy to, or whether it was a professional judgement of his current and potential talent. I will say that I was often frustrated by Williams in 2 regards: he often seemed out of route position, not in the place the QB thought he would be. My other concern was dropped balls, far too many and often at crucial points in the game. On the other side, he made some fine catches. His size and bulk made a big difference during that first season.
    But something was missing. And I don’t think team gurus saw a lot of positives this spring. I didn’t exactly want him to go, but I am not unhappy that they made this decision and I agree with those who think we will probably get a lot more dependable production from Lockette and Durham. One other note: PC seems open to second chance guys, especially guys he has dealt with through USC. But they do have to perform and maintain that performance.

  69. Ewalters7354 says:

    People just want Obo out because we have some young raw players ok I understand that.But Obo has proven over and over that he can play and be a key contributor to this team.You don’t stay on a team all the years he has if he sucked like some say.Every guy drops balls.That’s just apart of the game.But all this T-Jack talk has gotten OLD.The FO has brought in better players at that position so can we please leave alone?I mean for God sakes the man is a human being.Matt Hasselbeck was not much better on terms of production.So I back the FO for not bringing him back.The only reason T-Jack came to the team was because of a shortened offseason and Charlie Whitehurst absolutely sucked.

  70. And I get sick of stupid fools who are too dumb to understand some things, too (such has surrounding talent).

  71. Ewalters7354 says:

    Bobby,hopefully that wasn’t in reference to my comment…

  72. piperfeltcher says:

    I fully understand the value of special teams but if you look at the teams that are constantly good they use younger prospects on special teams and those players in a few years are there starters. Obo has 2-3 years left tops so if one of the young players can beat him out then I thinks the Hawks would be better off as Obo will never be a starter. And yes every player drops balls and costs games but lets face the truth you only get a couple shots to show you can play in the NFL and if you do not produce it is a time for a change. Obo got a shot to come in and play against SF in a game that if they won would have given them a chance to make the playoffs with a win over Ariz. and he blew it. Its like Taylor and Kent when Holmgren was coach they looked good in practice but did not step up when called upon. Ane Earl Thomas may have missed plays but he made a ton of plays where as I do not remember to many plays out of Obo last year. Obo is ok but I want the Hawks to be better then ok.

  73. Ewalters7354 says:

    Piper,what about the 2010 season when he proved he can actually play did he blow it then?Obviously he isn’t a superstar but he provides a solid option/depth guy who can step in and provide a decent target.All the young guys aside from Baldwin and Tate have yet to prove anything.Now if he gets beat out and sucks in preseason then he will prove he doesn’t belong on this team.But the Hawks weren’t a playoff team last year despite sjpwi

  74. Ewalters7354 says:

    *showing flashes of improvement in the second half of the season.I remeber Lockett dropped a pass against SF that would have moved the chains.Though I love Ricardo I don’t think one guy deserves blame when as a team they made costly mistake.Why not blame the oline for giving up 50 sacks or the ST for giving up 3 tds?Just saying…

  75. bbnate420 says:

    Even though some people here seem not to care much for statistics, I will provide some nonetheless. And a little analysis, unlike klm! ;-)

    Do people here realize that Durham and Lockette have a combined 5 catches for 135 yards and 1 TD? I like the potential of both players but, I don’t think either of them has proven that they belong is the same sentence with DEPENDABLE yet.

    BobbyK, can we please retire the Hasselbeck nonsense. His QB rating was THREE POINTS higher than TJack’s! And that’s playing with an offense that I don’t think HARDLY ANYONE here would argue wasn’t significantly better than ours last year. They gave up less than half the sacks, although I acknowledge that TJack was at fault for some of them. Definitely not responsible for 26 additional sacks though! Hasselbeck is gone and he-a-ain’t-a-comin back!

  76. Ewalters7354 says:

    bbnate,agree with it all!Good stuff bro.

  77. Hello there to all my seahawk brother’s. I’m new here and I’ve loved the hawk’s since the beginning. I’ve been checkin you guy’s out every day for a few year’s now. I don’t know football like some of you guy’s but I’m a hardcore fan and I do pay attention to a few stat’s. It is true that Matt hasselbeck and tarvaris jackson’s qb rating’s were about three point’s apart. But in the last two minute’s of the game during this last season. Matt’s qb rating went up to about 100 and tj’s qb rating went down to around 30. That’s coming from a qb that’s been in system for quite a few year’s as opposed to a qb that’s been in a system for not even one year at that time. So if you are going to quote stat’s quote them all. Note just the one’s that prove your point. That being said I am so excited about this season as I am every single season for as long as I can remember. I will alway’s suppprt our seahawk’s. You guy’s are awesome!!!!

  78. bbnate420 says:

    Thanks Ewalters. BTW, I think BobbyK’s comment was directed at piperfeltcher and not you.

    Ejhawk, it would be too tedious to list out all the statistics in all situations for both QBs. I just used QB rating because it is the simplest way to rate overall QB play, not the whole picture by any means. The point wasn’t to argue about who was a better QB anyways. The point was to show that overall their statistics were pretty similar. And yes Matt was in a new system but, TJack was on a new team as well and had less talent around him for most of the year I would argue. The Hawks O-line came together into a pretty good unit by the end of the year but was TERRIBLE for the majority of the first half. Tenn has one of the better O-lines in the league. My real point to dispel the fallacy that some here seem to believe that Matt was a top 10 QB last year and that the Hawks would’ve made the playoffs with him in 2011. We’ll never know about the latter, I don’t think he would’ve made it through the first 5 weeks behind our line, but at least by the statistics he was nowhere near an elite QB. I’m not a huge fan of TJack and I think he’s our third best option at QB in 2012. It’s pointless to bring up Hasselbeck here anymore to me. That ship has sailed.

  79. psoundpowerhouse says:

    yawn, camp started yet?

  80. Bb i agree. What we need now is for traing camp to start. So we can find out who our qb is. Then hopefully we can watch our hawk’s kick some butt. And then they can wipe that constipated look of harbaugh’s face. Along with a few others.

  81. Dukeshire says:

    Ejhawk – Welcome. The point about Jackson’s passer rating inside 2 minutes is a goo one. Eric spoke about that in his interview with Florio, and it’s something Carroll is clearly intent on addressing. If you have an offense like Seattle’s, whose focus is on running the ball, and doesn’t have a stable of dynamic playmakers on offense, you’re going to be in a lot a close games. 4 and 2 minute offense then become even more critical, and the QB’s production simply cannot decline in them if you hope to win many games.

  82. RDPoulsbo says:

    Still holding to my refrain of commenting on the QB situation until camp starts. Repeating what I think about it endlessly for the next few weeks is just a waste of time for me and anyone else who reads the blog comments.

    I’ll say this though in relation to Obo vs. Durham vs. Lockette argument is very similar to the T-Jax vs. Flynn vs. Wilson argument. You have a seasoned, though average vet and 2 young players with potential but haven’t proven anything yet and they are all very different types of players. The big difference though is you only have 1 starter at QB while at WR all 3 can see the field for significant time this coming year. I am surprised that people are still continually talking about dumping steady role players for unproven potential at WR of all positions. When was the last time a young Seattle WR has actually lived up to their potential for crying out loud? I do want Durham to take the starting X position, but he has to prove he’s earned it over Obo first.

  83. Hawksince77 says:

    Concerning Williams, this seems to me decisive:

    “The injury to the ankle had little to nothing to do with his release. According to the trainers and what I could get from Carroll, Mikes weight coupled with last years performance were enough to get him released. Too many times, Mike would just quit on a route, decreasing his stats and (apparently) making it hard for Jackson to want to throw the ball in his direction. Right now, Mike is not in the shape he needs to be in to play at the NFL level.

    Mike, when asked said he was not surprised by his release, and had been expecting it for some time. The Hawks made the move early enough for him to maybe catch on with another team, if his ankle heals well enough.”

  84. Hawksince77 says:

    The link above concerning Williams was provided by woofu over at Field Gulls, and the extract from FWBrodie.

  85. Thank’s duke just adding my 2 cent’s like every one else on here. In just a few week’s we will have all the answer’s to everything we’ve been concerned about. Then the fun begin’s.

  86. bbnate420 says:

    The fieldgulls article was pretty decent. One thing I disagreed with was that Winslow was slow like BMW. If Winslow was a WR then that might be true but, he is a TE. I don’t think he is especially slow for a TE. He is going against different defenders than a WR like BMW is going to go against.

  87. bbnate420 says:

    BTW, not trying to be confrontational but, do we have any idea who this poster is or his credentials from

  88. Dukeshire says:

    The page was unable to display. Can you remember his name?

  89. bbnate420 says:

    Sorry, just click on the link from Hawksince77’s first link, from 10:29 am. The link in my post included the ? which F’s it up. Or just paste the address without the ?. It looks like a regular forum site to me. The poster says something about being at the VMAC but, I have no idea who he is from his handle.

  90. bbnate420 says:

    His handle is ALUMNI56.

  91. bbnate420 says: Never heard of it personally.

  92. Dukeshire says:

    I’ve seen that site before, and I see who you’re talking about. My guess is that Carroll didn’t tell him anything personally (because he doesn’t know him) and like many, caught wind of a rumor and waited for it to be confirmed. Among other reasons I think that, is that if he were inside the ropes, he’d know enough to know that his list of veteran FA WRs is not at all the direction this team is headed.

  93. chuck_easton says:


    Just going off logic the guy’s login says Alumni 56. So if he really is a Seahawk alumni and wore 56 that leaves the following possibilities:

    Leroy Hill. 2005 to current
    Chike Okeafor 2003 and 2004
    Terry Killen 2002
    James Logan. 1995 -2000

    But that is just a guess if this person really is somehow associated with the team

  94. Dukeshire says:

    I can just see Hill posting this. Lol

  95. I’d be shocked if Mike Williams makes any teams 53 man roster this year.

    I love how Carroll corrects talent deficiencies as quickly as possible.

  96. Now maybe they can get clemon’s dealt with. Since they will have a little extra cash.

  97. Soggybuc says:

    Next you want to call this regime or Pete “Mr. Happy” keep in mind these guy’s will slit your throat and toss you into the bay faster than you can say good morning.

  98. They definitely want everyone on the team to meet expectations! If you are not there they let you go!

  99. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I’d be shocked if Jackson could make any other teams 53 man roster.

    Some here will be surprised when they let Jackson go, Why? I don’t know. It is plain to see everywhere except for a few blind Seahawk fans that Jackson is not, and not even close to a Superbowl qb, much less a winning Superbowl qb.

    Like those that hung on to whitehurst last year, there will be those that hang on to Jackson this year.

    Just like those that gave props to ACIAB, they will be giving props to BobbyK when the Seahawks release Jackson! Unless Carroll wants to lose his latest NFL coaching job he will do the right thing this year and replace Jackson with Flynn or Wilson.
    No shock here from my point of view, just a no brainer!

  100. There is going to be a whole lot of complaining on this board come August when Jackson wins the starting job. Flynn’s year to challenge will be next year but then he will have Russell Wilson to compete against.

  101. “Some here will be surprised when they let Jackson go.”

    “There is going to be a whole lot of complaining on this board come August when Jackson wins the starting job.”

    Okay, glad we have that settled. lol!

    I hope you guys won’t be too surprised when Jackson is the #2 QB, and comes in to win games after his starting QB goes down injured. I’d bet we will see that will happen in 2012, if not in Seattle, then wherever TJack lands – but I’m fairly confident Coach Carroll will want him to stay in Seattle for this very reason.

    If Russell Wilson develops uncommonly fast to become a capable #2 by the end of August, great – then its reasonable Carroll could cut TJack. In that case, TJack would be fortunate to get cut so he can catch on elsewhere. Wherever he ends up, he’ll get some starts, and some wins in 2012. He’s potentially one of the most valuable backup QBs in the league.

  102. I think Pabuwal is looking for another bet. Duke, are you in?

  103. Dukeshire says:

    Lol. I know. He’s been begging for one for weeks. Its funny to me how much more strongly he supports Jackson as the offseason has worn on. All the talk, from everyone, will be moot as soon as the pads come on week after next. In any event, I’m in, but I’ll be laying out the rules this time.

  104. I’d do the bet with Duke but I already have the Flynn vs Jackson bet with BobbyK. We made it a while back. I figure its a push if Wilson wins the job.

  105. Dukeshire says:

    You’re the one that said Jackson’s going to be the starter. Also, you don’t know what bet I propose.

  106. Go ahead and propose a bet but I’m not going to have 2 of the same bets outstanding.

  107. Dukeshire says:

    Lol. A man of conviction.

  108. PEARLJAM23 says:


    I’d like to wager a bet. I don’t know the bet between you and BobbyK, but I’m guessing he has Flynn and you have Jackson…. I’ll bet Wilson is the starting QB week 1 due to any circumstance. Over any other QB on the Hawks roster….10 bucks?

  109. I was one of the earliest and strongest proponents of Russell Wilson on this board.

  110. PEARLJAM23 says:

    I’m not saying your against him. You have said you think Jackson will start over Flynn and I think Wilson will start over both of them. I’m hoping for a wager. Are you in?

  111. I’m hoping Wilson starts over them both also but I don’t think it happens just yet. I don’t want to bet against Wilson.

  112. PEARLJAM23 says:

    Fair enough. I don’t think it’s his time yet also. But, I’m hoping he kicks ass in training camp… His day will come…. If you would like to make any other wager please keep me in mind…

  113. raymaines says:

    Here’s how I think it all works out: TJack doesn’t take a pay cut and is cut, leaving the starting job to Flinn for the two years of his contract. Then he is not re-signed and Willson is the starter for the following ten years.

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