Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Lynch’s new understudy, the ‘Turbinator’

Post by Eric Williams on June 13, 2012 at 7:07 am with 50 Comments »
June 13, 2012 7:08 am
Running back Robert Turbin runs a drill at the NFL football scouting combine in Indianapolis on Sunday, Feb. 26, 2012. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

Our own Dave Boling of The News Tribune talks with new Seattle Seahawks running back Robert Turbin, who teammates are calling the “Turbinator” because of his muscle-bound, cartoonish physique.

Turbin was brought in to spell Marshawn Lynch, offering a similar physical running style.

But Boling also details the hardships Turbin has had to overcome in his life, including the death of his older sister Trina afflicted with multiple sclerosis, and last February the murder of his older brother Lonnie in Oakland, who was battling drug addition.

“I think everybody is going to have things they have to go through in life,” Turbin said. “I think that people who have the hardest time are those who don’t have a goal, who don’t know what they want to do or what they want to be.
“For me, regardless what might be going on in my life, I always knew exactly what I wanted to do and what I wanted to be: a great football player.”

Here’s my story on Chris Clemons missing the first day of minicamp.

Brock Huard of ESPN 710 Seattle believes Clemons is making the wrong move by choosing not to report to minicamp.

Clare Farnsworth of offers this practice report from Tuesday’s minicamp.

More Farnsworth: The Seahawks are limiting Kellen Winslow’s practice reps to keep the pounding down on his bulky right knee.

Danny O’Neil of the Seattle Times notes that Pete Carroll had high praise for rookie safety Winston Guy.

ESPN 710 Seattle’s Bob Stelton and Dave Grosby interview receiver Sidney Rice in this audio link. The interview begins about 22 minutes in.

Bill Barnwell of Grantland takes a look at the top quarterback battles this offseason. Seattle’s three-way battle comes in at No. 4.

Jason Cole of Yahoo Sports writes that left tackle is gradually becoming a less valued position. I’m not so sure I agree with him, but it’s an interesting read.

Greg Gabriel of the National Football Post writes that offensive line is the most difficult position to scout because of all of the different things that are needed to make a good offensive line. Gabriel details what to look for in offensive tackles, guards and centers.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 50
  1. hawkfan777 says:

    Clemons needs to be in camp. There will still be plenty of time for him to negotiate a new contract.

    The Farnsworth article its good. It is funny hearing Jackson talk about how far he can throw the ball compared to the other QB’s. Too bad he cant get it to go where he wants it to go consistently.

  2. RDPoulsbo says:

    T-Jack should be a lesson for those who harp about arm strength. I’m willing to bet he easily has the strongest arm of all the QBs on the team. Accuracy, pocket awareness and ability to read defenses to get it to the open man are much more important than arm strength.

  3. For a guy that went 7-7 with a torn pectoral muscle, make shift line and less his top 2 WRs, you guys are rough on Tjack.

    Yes he held onto the ball to long and struggled with his progressions.

    No, he didn’t turn the ball over as much as Matt would’ve trying to force things in and giving up field position.

    Why do so many fans feel like they know this position better than PC? It baffles me.

    After Brock came out and said what he said about Tjack ‘doing the same old stuff’, I was ready to annoit Flynn. If Flynn wins the job, great but I wouldn’t mind Tjack winning it outright and sticking it to all the Debbie Downers here that have just been way to harsh IMO.

    The common goal is to win and no one here will give us a better evaluation than the people that see all 3 every day. Bunch of blowhards.


  4. raymaines says:

    A couple random thoughts:

    Robert Turbin seems like a really good kid and he’s easy to cheer for. Kind of reminds me of Leonard Weaver.

    It didn’t occur to me until this morning that Brian Banks is trying to go from one clink to another. I don’t know if that’s irony or just bad taste on my part.

    Antonio Bryant could make the receivers group a lot better if that experiment works out. He’s at least as weird as any other receiver, but he’s had two years to meditate and change his ways.

    The Seahawks seem to be leading the league in dreadlocks, and head case receivers with bad knees.

  5. Dukeshire says:

    Arm strength for a QB is as overblown at 40 times are for “skill” players. Of course there needs to be enough strength to make all the thrown, especially deep outs and come backs, but if you look across the league, the elite QBs are not necessarily have the strongest arms. Not by a along shot.

  6. hawkfan777 says:


    I am not down on Jackson. I don’t think he is the best QB on the team but he stepped in last year and played admirably under the circumstances.

    I think his biggest problem is that he isn’t very intelligent. It takes him too long to process what is happening. For a guy that has been in the same offense for 7 years he sure seems to be confused a lot. The best QB’s in the league can quickly process what is happening in front of them. They can go through their progressions quickly and make the best decision possible under the circumstances. In Jackson’s case it appeared that he rarely made it to his 3rd progression. He took too many sacks because he couldn’t process what he was seeing fast enough. He held the ball too long and it often lead to a sack or a poor decision which led to an interception etc. If the Seahawks had a very good QB (Brady or Rogers for example) how do you think they would have performed last year?

  7. Does Turbin currently have dreadlocks? Like today, does he have them? And he didn’t during the scouting combine? Is that a weave? I don’t know how I feel about this.

    Also, Chris Clemons should be in camp, although I wonder if losing ~1% of your annual pay for more than 2% of your annual required work is a good deterrent? Maybe he just did the math and continuing his vacation was a better value?

  8. Joreb – If we get from TJack what he has done over the last 7 years – basically in the same system – then it is time to move on.

    He hasn’t been able to learn the system well enough in 7 years that he can have the full playbook available in the 4th quarter and has not stepped up to be that field general. He is a great Locker room guy and I would LOVE to see him step up and be that great guy on the field as well.

    If you look at the things that were his MAJOR issues last year NONE of them had anything to do with a torn pectoral.

    1. Didn’t read progressions
    2. Scrambled INTO pressure far too often

    The issues that may have been Pec related issues

    3. Wouldn’t throw the ball to a closely guarded receiver

    Coaching issues

    4. They didn’t want him throwing picks so the asked him to hold longer – caused some sacks etc.

    My question for #4 is they didn’t want him to force it (i.e Hass his last season here) but why not open the play book up for a guy that SHOULD know the entire play book by now

  9. “I think his biggest problem is that he isn’t very intelligent. It takes him too long to process what is happening.”

    Some of you guys are so quick to say that a player isn’t intelligent: Curry isn’t intelligent, TJack isn’t intelligent, etc. Come on. I’ll bet if I gave you 10 addition problems and told you to do them in 3 seconds, you’d complete only one or two. That wouldn’t make you unintelligent. QBs do need to read defenses quickly, but it’s not about intelligence.

  10. Dukeshire says:

    I’m looking forward to reading about Banks today, and where they play him.

  11. Hammajamma says:

    I think with TJ we would all like to see him not overthrow the open receiver, step up in the pocket and move AWAY from pressure, slide laterally while tracking his check downs, run decisively when it’s time to go, and have a louder alarm inside his head. Simple.

  12. Dukeshire says:

    Simple perhaps. Not easy.

  13. bird_spit says:

    Yeah, nfl QBs job is simple…the problem is that about 10-12 people in the world make it look simple. If TJ wins the job, I’ll move on to cheering the dude on, and reassess 3-4 games in. The problem is that many of you won’t accept it, and all we will hear for another year is the whining and complaining. I want Flynn just so there is some peace around here.

  14. Give Tjack a full off season with a healthy line and WRs THEN let’s evaluate him. 7 seasons? Um, see Brett Favre. He WAS a 2nd round pick although admittedly, I don’t care for Brad Childress. IF he wins the QB job fair and square all I’m saying is give him a fair shot in this system with Pete Carroll as the coach and with a full off season. If he hasn’t moved the dial after this year, his contract expires and it won’t be renewed. Calling for his head now is premature and undeserved.

    I would rather he eat the ball and punt than to turn it over and give the opposition great field position. Hass used to frustrate Holmgren and PC by forcing too many balls. PC preaches ball control and that’s exactly what Tjack did, as frustrating as it was at times.

    Sure, a few comebacks in the 4th quarter would’ve been nice, but to put it all on him just ain’t right. As birdspit says, there are only a few elite QBs in the league. I’m not convinced we need an elite QB (although it’d be great, quick name one that has worn a Seahawk Uni besides Warren Moon and don’t tell me Matt. As much as I loved Hass, we all know he’s not going to Canton.) but rather a solid game manager that moves the chains and limits turnovers while giving the rock to Lynch and Turbin as our Defense shuts teams down.

    I got an idea. Let’s allow the coaches (who get paid millions) to decide. If Pete gets it wrong, he won’t last and we’ll just continue to be fans that think we know it all.


  15. Pretty excited about this rookie class – I know, it’s easy to get excited this time of year – but I’m very curious to see Irvin rush the QB, Wagner making tackles, and Turbin with the ball . . .

  16. We whine and complain because we have a right to expect more. I, for one, am sick and tired of never having won a Super Bowl (damn you, Bill Leavy).

    Personally, T-Jack played well beyond my expectations last year (although they were set pretty low). For the most part, I thought his pre-snap reads were fine. I don’t remember the game, but he threw a pass for a nice, long gain or TD last year and it was a thing of beauty. He looked one way, got the safety to bite, and looked the other and hit his man. To me, I never thought I would have seen that from him. Even the commentator was talking about his growth on that specific play. It was him maturing beyond any of my wildest expectations.

    However, he’s a guy you don’t want in your corner when the “bullets start flying,” as has been said before. He’s got this panic, check-down mindset that I can’t stand (nevermind the weaknesses that have been covered in full, such as pocket awareness). Could I make those quick decisions as an NFL QB. No. But I’m not expected to. It’s not my job. It’s his job though and we have a right to expect people to perform their jobs at a high enough level so we can watch our team win consistently.

    If I look at our 7 wins last year, I’m skeptical of how many games T-Jack actually helped us win.

    We scored 13 points in the Cardinals game and he had no TDs. Granted, all that matters is winning/losing, but if we all want more, we need a QB that will help us WIN games (not prevent us from losing them).

    The second win he gets credit for is funny. The Seahawks weren’t even winning the game last year when he got hurt. It was the Whitehurst to Baldwin pass and Brandon Browner INT return that were the keys in this game. Yet T-Jack gets credit for this win because he started the game.

    The third win was against Baltimore. T-Jack played well. I was impressed to a certain degree. Sure, he didn’t have any TDs but he was an asset in this game and that’s all that matters, regardless of stats.

    Two wins came against a depleted Rams team. I think a circus monkey, pabs, Dan McGwire, Caleb Hanie, or Joe Kemp could have led the team to wins against the Rams last year. Those two Rams teams we played were the two worst teams I have ever seen in the NFL by the time we played them (after their injuries). Yes, they were, by far, IMO, worse than the winless Lions team of a few years ago if you take everything into proper context of who was hurt, how many were hurt, how bad their depth was, and their QB that couldn’t hardly walk and his throwing was definitely affected (for him to have even been playing should have been grounds to fire their coach).

    Lynch expoded against the Eagles and T-Jack went along for the ride and then “outdueled” Caleb Hanie after having had, arguably, his worst quarter of football as a Seahawk in the first half.

    It’s so funny, too, that some of these blowouts we had was because our defense scored a bunch of points. It wasn’t because the T-Jack led offense (we all know Lynch and the OL carried the offense) scored a whole bunch of points more than our opponents. If you look at the last three wins of the season, the defense/ST scored 4 TDs (some of which helped the team get leads or take command b/c the T-Jack led offense couldn’t do it).

    I refuse to give credit to Jackson for beating Eli Manning because he didn’t. He just happened to start the game and then got hurt in a tie. So, of the 6 wins he got last year, our opposing QBs were:
    Caleb Hanie (one of the worst starting QBs I have ever seen)
    Joe Flacco (whatever; not great, but doesn’t suck)
    Vince Young (nobody is dumb enough to want him as a starter)
    Kevin Kolb (who everyone around here thinks sucks)
    Sam Bradford – twice (I think he’s fine, but he was a cripple the two times we beat him)

    Are we willing to settle, or do we want/need more? I’m fine with T-Jack the second stringer, but not fine with him the starter. But after drafting Wilson, I’d rather have him at second string. And I’m sick of the “he’s a good guy” stuff as reason for wanting him on the team. Isn’t that what Ruskell tried to do and everyone is happy he’s gone. If that’s the case, lets try to have combines for good people and draft them, regardless of NFL skill and have them be our QBs, too.

  17. Solid game managers don’t get you to the Superbowl or compete for them on a regular basis – maybe get to the play-offs regularly – I want us trying for the Super bowl! EVERY season. Will we make it(every year) – no. but we have to try for it.

    I don’t think you need a top 5 (elite QB) to get there but you need an above average guy to get there

    Tjack is average or slightly below average. I am HOPING that Flynn beats him out – not because I don’t like him but because it makes us BETTER.

    I am not okay with 7-9 anymore – if they don’t regularly finish 9-7 or better then they are not getting better – I am not okay with middle of road anymore – will you have a down year here or there – Yes – but they have turned over the WHOLE roster. The time is now or they have to start worrying about the seat getting HOT.

    IF Flynn and/or Wilson can’t beat out TJack then you have to look at the QB’s they have brought in and say – The BEST guy they brought in is about average. That will not keep you in the NFL.

  18. Every Seahawks GM in the history of this franchise has produced zero Super Bowl wins. We have a right to complain until this stops and the two in charge today are no different. They have produced zero Super Bowls for us in two years (although none of us expected them to with the hand they were dealt when they took over). All those people in the over 30 years of this franchise were paid good money and were “experts” at their jobs, too, yet they never achieved the results we want.

    Those in charge have a right to stick to their guns and philosophy and not let fans dictate their decisions, but fans have a right to be mad about never having won a Super Bowl, too. While I like most of what this regime has done, all of us are allowed to voice an opinion. If you don’t want an opinion, stick to where you only hear from the real experts and them telling you what you should think.

  19. RDPoulsbo says:

    Even though I’m no fan of T-Jack, I think I spend more time defending him. T-Jack deserves to go into the QB competition as the starter, but PC brought in 2 other guys for a reason. The progressions of Bevell’s offense is still the same in Seattle as it was in Minnesota and yet he getting though them as quickly as he should. That’s what brings his vision of the field and recognition of the defenses into question. That’s a pretty big reason why most QBs fail in the league.

    He still can do it as you’d expect from a middling starter or good backup so I think people who want to see him cut in favor of a completely untested rookie and a guy who lost a QB competition to Tebow are completely off base.

  20. BobbyK – you can’t include Joe Flacco on that list. He was one drop away from driving his team to a Super Bowl Appearance.

    Has anyone watched and analyzed Matt Flynn’s pocket presence? He takes far more sacks than he should, my guess is because he doesn’t have the athletic ability to move away from pressure or the arm strength to make tight window throws. I don’t think its mental with him. With a guy like Kevin Kolb, it’s mental and not physical. But the end result is the same.

    If you guys are looking for a QB with good or even average pocket presence, Matt Flynn isn’t your guy.

  21. For me, the problem with T-Jack is that he played WORSE after his pec healed. Seriously. He made more and more dumb mistakes (holding the ball too long, missing wide open Obomanu on longbombs), and looked less and less confident in threading throws and was less accurate AFTER he healed. I thought he did pretty well just before he hurt his pec and after.

    Jackson had four games where he had 1+ drives in the fourth quarter where all we needed was a field goal to tie, TD to win. Instead, we got nothing. Most of the time, he didnt even lead us to points. Thats not good enough for a starting qb, at all.

    Part of the total disaster that was our red zone offense last year is Darrell Bevell and his hideous playcalling and overly simple offense. But part of it was T-Jacks inability to be accurate throwing into the endzone. I never thought it was possible to have a worse red zone offense than Greg Knapps, but Bevell/Jackson’s WAS. That is shameful.

    Jackson also refused to take advantage of BMW’s size, or anyone else’s attributes except Rice. He was damn near as bad at locking onto Rice as Rick Mirer was with Joey Galloway.

    Jackson is not garbage, but he’s not NFL starter caliber, and he wont improve enough to ever be. Seven years in one system is plenty to grow into what you are. Jackson is what he is, and I fully expect Flynn to pass him by the second preseason game. As I have said, it shows how crappy Jackson is that a 5′-10″ rookie from Wisconsin who only played two years at the major college level, and a former seventh round draft pick who has started two NFL games in four years and only something like 15 games since HIGH SCHOOL are right on his ass despite having only a couple months to study the playbook, and less than three weeks of practice to get it down. Meanwhile, as noted, Jackson has had seven years in this same system, yet these two are breathing down his neck?! To me, that speaks volumes about Jackson’s ceiling–its allready been met.

  22. Dukeshire says:

    Jackson’s had plenty of “full offseasons” to prepare himself. I find it incredibly unlikely that at this stage of his career, he’ll be taking any significant leaps forward.

  23. pabs – my list included the QBs that Jackson beat. The Seahawks defeated the Ravens, therefore, the QB of the Seahawks (Jackson) defeated the QB of the Ravens (Flacco). The fact that Flacco should have been playing in the Super Bowl last year isn’t the point. He and his team lost to Jackson and the Seahawks. That’s a fact.

  24. bbnate420 says:

    I have no illusions about changing anyone’s mind here but, IMO you are ALL MISSING THE POINT!!!!!! Your one year contract analogy really means nothing to this situation, Chuck. You have one year contracts. That means either you or your associates can decide to end your business relationship at the end of the year. See, that is EQUITABLE. You BOTH have the same option. That’s NOT how it is in the NFL. The PLAYER is supposed to play out the ENTIRE contract like it is FULLY GUARANTEED but, the TEAM can dump them whenever they feel the urge. That’s NOT EQUITABLE OR FAIR. I asked earlier for someone to explain how that’s fair. I am STILL WAITING! Wanting Clemons to be there are not hurt the team is understandable, Chuck. Ultimately I feel the same way. But it is NOT RATIONAL. If you want to be an IRRATIONAL fan that is fine but, don’t pretend like you’re taking a logical position. I wish the Hawks could sign 53 pro bowlers that were willing to play for 2 mil a year but, that’s NOT REALITY! If this was baseball, where all the contracts are guaranteed, I would agree that Clemons signed the contract and should show up. BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE! The owners benefit from not having guaranteed contracts so, they and we HAVE to deal with situations like this. I don’t get what’s so complicated about this!

    Oh, and if you think something is fair or right because it is in a contract or law then you really need to remove your head from your nether regions! Segregation used to be the law of the land. Legal but not right or fair. Take a look at our drug laws. The government was able to torture people by simply rewording torture techniques. The NDAA was passed but, MANY constitutional scholars believe it to be unconstitutional. You’d be SHOCKED at what you’ve agreed to if you have any credit cards! You signed the contract but, I bet you wouldn’t like the fact that if you have a dispute with your credit card company you are FORCED to go to arbitration with them. A arbitrator from a company PICKED by the credit card company. And shockingly enough, the arbitration companies side with the people giving them business, the credit card companies, over 93 % of the time. If you think that’s ok because it’s in a contract then you really are a sheep!

  25. Dukeshire says:

    Assessing the competence of one’s “pocket presence” after only 2 games, seems like an awfully small sample size from which to make any decelerations of certainty.

  26. Do you think so Duke? Was it with the Hawks and PC? Has a QB ever gone from one team to another and enjoyed success? You’re a genius. Just ask you and you’ll tell me. Better yet, don’t ask you and you’ll tell me anyway.

    BK…7 wins is exactly how many wins Matt had his last year with 2 less games. He played brilliantly against NO in the playoffs, but it was a fluke to have a team with a losing record to get into the playoffs to begin with. Any time, anyone has to come to Qwest, it’s a difficult game for the opposition. And of course you can have an opinion. I just happen to think it stinks of rotten eggs MOST of the time.

    STTBM…played worse after his Pec. He never full recovered. He played hurt and still only had Baldwin to throw to. Obamanu, Tate, Lockette and whoever else were there STUNK.

    xcman – Dilfer, Doug Williams and Brad Johnson all have rings. Were they elite or good game managers that got hot at the right time?

    Look, I don’t like Bevell. I think he’s a bore, but he’s our bore. Childress was a disaster although he almost lucked out riding the coattails of Favre (kind of like Holmgren did).

    Give me a break. Give the guy a fair shot here. I so badly want to have him stick it to y’all but wouldn’t be disappointed in the slightest if it’s Flynn or Wilson leading the way.

    I’m a Seahawks fan first. I don’t need to be right.


  27. bbnate420 says:

    Actually joreb, Matt went either 6-7 or 6-8 in 2010 depending on how you want to count it. Matt only played a short amount of the TB game but, I don’t think it would’ve mattered had he played the entire game. Either way, your point is valid. Matt had a 73 rating in 2010 and TJack had a 79 rating in 2011 but, TJack got a lot more s&&t! He doesn’t have the history here that Matt did. I would like to see either Flynn or RW starting as I don’t think TJack will ever do better than around a 80-85 rating. Hopefully, Flynn or RW has a higher ceiling.

  28. Matt never had a running game those last few years. He never had a defense as good as last year (again, his last few years). Matt never had a WR like Sidney Rice, where if you lose him, you complain (yet people love to complain about poor T-Jack losing Rice, how life isn’t fair for him and all). You give Matt the team last year and we would have had a winning record, not a losing record. You put a good team around a Dilfer, Williams, and Johnson and they win more. It’s not hard to figure out. That’s why Jackson has a chance to win this upcoming year if he’s the starter — b/c the team is getting really good/talented.

  29. hawkfan777 says:


    I understand your concern with my comment regarding Jackson’s intelligence but my opinion is not based on what I see on the field. It is also based on the many interviews that I watched of him as well as other documentation available. Again, it is not based on one thing but rather a sum of everything I see. Think about Brady, Rogers, Manning (either), Bree’s etc. How do they sound in interviews? Are they quick with their responses? Do they sound intelligent? Jackson may be as smart or smarter than I am but he isn’t elite QB smart. An elite QB must think very quickly. In college a QB can rely on their athletic ability which Jackson has plenty of but the NFL is completely different.

  30. bbnate420 says:

    BobbyK, you might be right about Matt if he had the 2011 Hawks at the END of the year but, Matt wouldn’t have made it to week 3 without being laid out on a stretcher!

  31. raymaines says:

    Joreb says: Better yet, don’t ask you and you’ll tell me anyway.

    That was funny.

    Here’s my wild guess about the QB competition: Nothing happens until the the preseason games start. After game one, RW gets issued a clipboard and is shown to the bench. After game three MF is named the starter, and TJack is asked to restructure his contract, he refuses, he’s cut, and Wilson hands the clipboard to Josh Portis.

    Here’s some key dates:

    Aug. 4: Hall of Fame enshrinement ceremony

    Aug. 5: Hall of Fame Game: Arizona vs. New Orleans, Canton, Ohio,

    Aug. 11: Preseason Game #1: Tennessee (with their very own QB competition) is here.

    Aug. 18: Preseason game #2: @ Denver (Speaking of QB’s…)

    Aug. 24: Preseason game #3: @KC

    Aug. 28: Roster cutdown to 80 players

    Aug. 30: Preseason game #4: The Raiders come to town

    Sept. 2: Roster cutdown to 53 players.

    Sept. 9: Regular-season opener: @ Arizona

  32. raymaines says:

    For the first time in who knows how many years, preseason game 4 might be pretty interesting. There are going to be a lot of pretty talented people trying to make one last impression before the final cut, and it’s against the Raiders. I’ll be watching.

  33. Okay. Matt gets hurt week two (or one or three). For how long? People make it sound like he’d have had a season ending injury. What kind and for how long? A couple of weeks or perhaps a month (but we had the by early, so that’d mean 3 games, instead of 4). Regardless, this team would have still had a winning record. I firmly believe that.

    I know we can win with Jackson this year. I think we can go 8-8 with him as our starter and maybe 9-7 (I think the schedule this year is tougher). But I want more and I think we need someone else who can also help us win those late games, rather than someone who merely helps us not lose a bunch of games. I don’t think he can be a difference maker. Perhaps this team will be so good that he doesn’t have to be though? All I know is that it took Matt Flynn one chance to lead his team to a 4th quarter win last year and that’s something Jackson failed to do in an entire season (that he started).

  34. raymaines – Jackson will restructure in your scenario. Nobody else will want him (or give him more than what the Seahawks will offer, even after asking him to take the paycut). He has no significant value to any team in the NFL other than one coached by Bevell.

  35. “After game one, RW gets issued a clipboard and is shown to the bench. After game three MF is named the starter, and TJack is asked to restructure his contract, he refuses, he’s cut, and Wilson hands the clipboard to Josh Portis.”

    That’s more or less what I think happens too – except that I agree w/Bobby that it’s likely TJ sticks around, but just for this one more year.

    I think Flynn, unless he just blows it bigtime, which I don’t expect, gets his shot as the opening day starter. And then we’ll see, over time, if PC and JS have the hidden gem they seem to think they might have found in Wilson.

  36. bbnate420 says:

    I personally don’t want TJack starting for us but, I think a lot of people on here lose objectivity when talking about him. If they believe that RW is the long term answer then I think they should start him from the get go, even if he gives us the third best chance of winning in 2012, so he can take his lumps and be ready to take this team all the way in 2013.

  37. “If they believe that RW is the long term answer then I think they should start him from the get go, even if he gives us the third best chance of winning in 2012, so he can take his lumps and be ready to take this team all the way in 2013.”

    I agree.

    As bad as I hate T-Jack the QB (not the person), it’s very possible he gives us the best chance to win this upcoming year.

    A team this young, especially, IMO, needs to go w/Flynn (or Wilson). If Flynn falls on his face, then the season will be lost and then Wilson can get some time this year to get ready for next year so he won’t essentially be a first year player. We need to have a long term vision.

  38. If Flynn blows for six games, then Wallace could take over but have had over a month in the NFL of observing ‘real’ action each week and then get the much needed on-field experience for the remainder of the season so he could go into 2013 as the clear leader (which any team needs and what we do not have right now, which sucks). He could have learned by watching for over a month but then did what you need most in learning – actually doing.

    For the record, I think Flynn will take the job, having his growing pains (and a stinker game or two), and run with it and be our QB of the future that all of us want.

  39. bbnate420 says:

    My dream scenario is still Flynn starting from week 1. He’s our best chance to make to playoffs this year and still have a super bowl QB in the future. Although RW might be a franchise QB in the future, I don’t see us making the playoffs with him starting as a rookie.

  40. Dukeshire says:

    joreb – What are you talking about out?

  41. chuck_easton says:


    That was yesterday’s rant. I’ve moved on. One year contracts aren’t a reality for the NFL. But it would stop alot of the business fights we see between players and management. You play great this year you get more money next year.

    It’s not going to happen. Especially when one play can end a career.

    There are times where a hold out is the right move for a player. A rookie that is three years into their first contract and is making 500k and performing at a much higher level. By all means, if managment won’t redo the contract. Do what you have to do.

    The Clemons situation isn’t one of those issues. Apparently the team had made him an offer but he and his agent haven’t accepted it.

    That’s when I get defensive about all the ‘pay the man’ arguments. Sometimes you can’t ‘pay the man’ what he wants because it’s not a good business decision.

  42. I truly want to join in this conversation about our beloved team, but I can’t get over the size of Turbin’s arms in the above picture. They are the size of my waist, and I’m 184lbs. If Turbin ever happens to fumble the ball, it’ll be because someone shot him with a taser gun in the face. IN THE FACE.


  43. BobbyK – you can go over 10 years of Matt Hasselbeck’s career in Seattle and find a handful of teams with “good QBs” he beat and that number shrinks down considerably to just a few if you look at his final 5 years with the team. He did have something like a 3-30 road record against teams with winning records his entire Seattle career. The Seattle Seahawks franchise has a very poor history against “good QBs.” It started well before Hasselebck, but his years are considered the franchise’s “glory years” and his record wasn’t much better.

    And not giving “credit” to Jackson for the NYG game makes zero sense. Forgetting about the two turnovers by Lynch and Robinson inside the Giants 11 yard line during the first half, the only reason that last drive was needed was because Whitehurst played terribly. Fortunately, Aaron Ross stopped playing once he saw the offsides flag thrown.

  44. bird_spit says:

    I think this year Cable needs to tell the OL that it’s their girlfriend that will be the starting QB. No more revolving doors at guard. I think with a full offseason the team would have won 9 or 10 games last year. TJ should be given the benefit of the doubt. Flynn should kick the door down to win the position. If he does not, TJ should be the #1.

    Btw..I expect Flynn to kick the door down. If he doesn’t, he’s a qualified bust.

  45. Bird_split – that’s not a fair opinion of Flynn at all. He wasn’t given a huge contract and no one around the team or the league has called him the savior. This is nowhere near a Kevin Kolb situation.

    The only way Flynn would be a “bust” is if he ends up third string this year.

  46. pabs must think that a starting pitcher that leaves the game tied in the 4th inning should get credit for a win.

    If you want to talk about why the Hawks should have scored more in the Giants game, should I bring up the 3 passes that Jackson threw to defenders last year that would have been easy pick 6 plays (except the defenders dropped them)? Oh, wait, if something goes his way, he’s entitled to it in your world and if something goes against him, it’s always someone else’s fault.

    pabs – seriously, we don’t need to rehash the same crap again starting now. For some reason, according to you, T-Jack deserves 10 Pro Bowlers on his team but Matt was entitled to a bunch of crap “the last 5 years.” You hate Hasselbeck. I hate Jackson. Nothing you can say will get me to dislike Matt and like Jackson and nothing I can say to you will get you to like Matt or dislike Jackson. It’s pointless. I’m done on this topic. I’m glad there’s something about Banks to read on the next one…

    You can have the last word b/c I’m not coming back to this one…

  47. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, I’m not necessarily arguing whether or not it is smart for Clemons to hold out, just that it’s his right to do it. We DON”T know that the Hawks have offered him a new contract and, if they have, whether or not it is a good offer. No one here is really privy to the negotiations. PC said they were in contact with his representative. Maybe his agent felt they weren’t negotiating in good faith and told Clemons to skip minicamp to send a message. I don’t know. Neither does anybody else here. I personally don’t think they should sign Clemons for more that 2 more years. I would be ok with them signing him to a 2 year, 16 mil extension. I think he does deserve a raise for 2012 even if they don’t want to sign him to an extension though.

  48. Guess I’ll get the last word then. Here’s the difference between our opinions – Pete Carroll dumped Matt Hasselbeck (who you think is still a fine NFL QB) for the “worst QB in the world” as his starter.

    He then went ahead and signed a QB who you feel will take the team to the Super Bowl and is making this QB compete against the “worst QB in the world” and the “worst QB in the world” is still number 1 on the depth chart.

    And yes its early and I think Flynn has a decent shot at winning, but no Flynn supporter before FA would have predicted he would be behind Jackson and locked in a battle to the death for the starting job.

  49. PixelDummy says:

    Lol, @BobbyK nice Freudian slip when I assume you were referring to Wilson: “If Flynn blows for six games, then Wallace (Seneca) could take over…”

  50. I’m shocked that there are people that hope T-Jack is the starting QB in 2012… Shocked I tell you! More shocked than I was to hear about Kevin Ellison burning his place down because the lord said to…

    If T-Jack’s the starter then Wilson and Flynn were failures, plain and simple. Because they were brought here to rid us of mediocre to bad QB play (aka T-Jack). The only reason this is a competition is so Flynn can prove to his teammates he deserves the job.

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