Seahawks Insider

T-Jack takes first reps, looks polished

Post by Eric Williams on June 12, 2012 at 5:28 pm with 67 Comments »
June 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Pete Carroll complimented Tarvaris Jackson on the way he threw the ball, and said his incumbent starting quarterback played with confidence in the team’s opening day of minicamp this afternoon.

Jackson mostly worked with the first unit today. It will be Matt Flynn’s turn to work with the first unit on Wednesday, as Carroll continues to rotate those two and rookie Russell Wilson with the first unit.

“He’s doing very well,” Carroll said about Jackson. “He looks really healthy and strong, and very confident in what we’re doing. And he’s making it hard on these guys.”

Jackson said he’s not concerned with how the reps have been divided up, and just wants to take advantage of his opportunities when he gets them.

Jackson also said the situation he went through in Minnesota with Brett Favre helped prepare him in dealing with the quarterback competition here in Seattle.

“It’s helped me out a whole lot,” Jackson said. “It’s a different situation. But it helped me to be able to kind of let things play out the way they’re going to play out, because when it really comes down to it, those guys upstairs are going to make the decision. It’s kind of out of my hands regardless. The only thing I can control is how I play, and how I perform.”

Sidney Rice said the sooner Carroll makes a decision and establishes who will be the starter, the better off the team will be.

“It doesn’t matter who is back there,” Rice said. “I’m confident in all three of the guys that we have – Russell, Tarvaris and Matt. So we’ll see how it goes. The coaches are going to make that decision, and hopefully it’s early in training camp. That would be fair to the rest of the team to know who are leader is going to be. So we look forward to that.

“I feel like when you’ve got goals set like we have, you need to know who’s going to be controlling the offense. So we’ll see what happens.”

Jackson says his torn pectoral muscle is fully healthy and he feels fine. Asked how far he can throw, Jackson said he once threw the ball 80 yards in a throwing competition his freshman year at Arkansas.

“I don’t really like to do it,” Jackson said. “But one of my quarterbacks actually wanted to see if he could throw farther than me, and he forced me to do it. And I smashed him.”

Some Tidbits

* Carroll said receiver Golden Tate has a slight crack in his right hand, but will be running tomorrow and should be ready for training camp. Carroll said if there was a game this week Tate could play.

* Mike Williams is close to returning from a broken ankle, according to Carroll. “He just hasn’t done enough work running routes and changing directions and things like that to let him go,” Carroll said. “But he can run straight ahead full speed. So he’s getting close to being full-go.”

* In for a tryout this week, receiver Antonio Bryant got some work during individual drills and looked okay, but was mostly a spectator for the team portion of practice. “Well, that’s the first time we’ve seen him and it’s been awhile since he played,” Carroll said. “He has not had a chance to work with anybody much, so we’ve got to give it a few days and see what we can see. We know that he was a fantastic athlete at one time with a lot of potential, so we’ll see where he fits.”

* Linebacker Barrett Ruud is close to returning to the field. Ruud, who’s recovering from groin, knee and shoulder injuries, ran full speed up and down the hill next to the team’s practice field.

* Rookie safety Winston Guy (shoulder) is still wearing a red jersey, but Carroll likes what he sees from the University of Kentucky product so far, and believes he can be an asset in some of the team’s specialty defensive packages.

* Roy Lewis continues to play some safety, giving the University of Washington product some more versatility. Lewis also can play cornerback outside, but his main position is as a nickel cornerback inside on the slot.

* Some receivers had a case of the drops today. Ben Obomanu dropped three passes and Kris Durham failed to come up with a pass from Jackson on a deep ball that Brandon Browner managed to strip out. Deon Butler dropped a tough catch while diving out for the ball in the flat, and tight end Anthony McCoy could not come up with a ball over the middle while reaching back for it.. However, Obomanu did make up for one of the drops with a nice catch on a deep ball. Obomanu worked at split end with the first unit, while Butler worked at flanker.

* John Moffitt was back with the first unit working at right guard.

* Overall, Seattle’s offense looked more crisp on Tuesday, breaking the huddle and getting to the line of scrimmage quickly. Jackson did a better job of working through his progressions, and if nothing was there, checking the ball down.

* University of Washington product Jermaine Kearse wore a boot on his left foot and did not practice. Others who sat out include Walter Thurmond, Chris Maragos, Malcolm Smith, Tate, Williams and Ruud. Thurmond is walking and putting pressure on his broken leg and moving around without a scooter. Clemons was the only person on the 90-man roster not accounted for on the field.

* Offensive lineman James Carpenter (knee) worked on stance and starts again, this time working against a bag on the side while the rest of his teammates went through individual drills.

Notes from practice
Leave a comment Comments → 67
  1. Dukeshire says:

    Which safety position are they working Lewis in to? And Obo with 3 drops? His versatility is useless if he can’t hang on to it. Is Malcolm Smith ever healthy? Goodness.

    Thanks for the update, Eric.

  2. You know what they say… You can polish a turd all day but in the end, it is still a turd… :)

  3. Rice is right about wanting/needing to know who the driver of the racecar is going to be.

    What is up w/Smith? Is it minor? Hangnail? Knee? Little toe?

    Jackson looking good in practice with a red jersey on? Weird.

  4. I think Rice ought to just concentrate on making sure HE’s available for the season.

  5. chuck_easton says:

    Clemons missing again? Is he in town? That’s 10K fine. Tomorrow it’s another 20K and Thursday another 30K.

    Clemons little pouting tantrum will leave him 60K poorer by Friday all while giving Irvin more time with the 1st team

  6. Eric – did you observe Jackson looking “polished” or was that Carroll’s assessment? We put a lot of weight on your observations (as well as Carroll’s obviously).

  7. Eric – After re-reading your blog post I realize those were your observations in addition to Carroll’s Quotes.

  8. raymaines says:

    It’s a MAXIMUM of a 10 grand fine. It’s negotiable. But that’s beside the point.

    I’m worried about the receiver corps. Competition is a good thing, but competition between a bunch of also rans won’t produce anything but a good also ran. Somebody please tell me how totally great this group really is. Tell me the guys we cut will be starters on some other team.

    I’m also worried about the OL, and QB position. I think the defense is strong enough to cover weak LB play. Geoux Seahawks.

  9. Raymaines – sorry but I think the Seahawks WRs are a pretty weak group overall. If Lockette can’t step up, I don’t see this as being much more than an average group – and that’s with Rice somehow playing all 16 games.

  10. bbnate420 says:

    TJack is going to look good in workouts like this. He has great physical tools ad there is little pressure. Once he gets back into games he will stare down his receivers and hold on to the ball for 10 minutes until he gets sacked again. A bit of a polished turd as dacmike put it. I think he’s valuable to this team as a backup but, I don’t think he’s ever going to top around a 80-85 QB rating. Play Flynn or the kid and see what they’ve got!

    GO HEAT!!!!!!!!

  11. chuck_easton says:

    No Raymaines the new CBA implimented an incrimental fining system. 10K for the first day. 20k for the second day missed and 30K for the third day missed. If the mini camp the team could tack on another 40k.

    Clemons is costing himself 60K for missing this week and I think the team should make him pay every penny to send a message to the young guys.

  12. Jackson’s got his flaws as a QB; but got to give the guy credit for his attitude – he’s a trooper.

    Agree with Pabs about our WR corps – I think we are really reading into potential guys – it’s a very iffy part of the team. Happy about the Winslow signing though, makes that area a strength.

  13. “GO HEAT!!!!!!!!”

    man . . . +1

  14. I’m hoping Winslow’s knee can hold up, then the 2 TE formation will be a strength of the passing offense, rather than Obomanu dropping his 10th pass in a game.

  15. We are all Heat fans tonight.

  16. If Rice is healthy (one heck of an “if”), Tate is who I expect him to be this season, and Baldwin… I think that’s a top 10-12 trio of top 3 WRs in the NFL.

    However, without Rice, it’s an, overall, below average unit (but the TE situation should help the receiving unit as a whole).

    How can’t you look polished if you’re in your 7th year in the exact same system and you know that you’re not going to get hit in practice?

    From the article I linked, Jackson did do a much better job of minimizing INTs last year though. But Childress expected him to perform like an NFL QB and Jackson threw picks, whereas Bevell had the training wheels on him (as a good coach would) in not allowing him to do stupid things with the ball as often as possible this past season (which was fine to an extent, as long as you don’t care about winning games in the 4th quarter).

  17. bbnate420 says:

    What’s the message, Chuck? Outplay your contract and you won’t be rewarded? They absolutely shouldn’t fine him. Resign him for 3 more years, front loaded.

  18. Dukeshire says:

    Not me. Sorry, but I like Kevin Durant and would love to see him beat LeDouche.

  19. pabs – lol (Obo comment)

    I hope Winslow can be okay, too (knee). He and Miller should prove to be a good duo. And, yes, that’ll really help the passing game.

    If Cable can work his OL magic again, especially starting early in the year, I think this can be a very good offensive team if Rice stays healthy (even w/Jackson as the starter, to a degree). Man, I sure hope it’s Flynn from the get-go though! I’d be fine with Wilson too. Just, please, Mr. Happy, don’t make me go through more T-Jack! PLEASE!!!

  20. I’m not even from Seattle and I hate the Thunder for what happened.

  21. chuck_easton says:


    Team just signed Clemons replacement in the first round.

    He may get one additional year. But you don’t sign a 31 year old guy to amti year contract when you just drafted his replacement.

    And remember Clemons was a bust in Philly. Seattle resurrected his career and he repays them by hiding out. Hell yes. Fine his butt until he gets into camp.

  22. Dukeshire says:

    I would argue that the receiver unit is the weakest on the team, as of now.

  23. Depends on who the starter is at QB:)

    For me, the receiving unit all boils down to Rice and his health.

  24. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, let’s wait until Irvin plays at least ONE down before we anoint him as a replacement for anything. We need more than 1 pass rusher. Clemons has a lot of value regardless of Irvin being good or not. They will take pressure off of each other hopefully. It doesn’t matter if we sign Clemons to a 10 year deal! All that matters is the GUARANTEED money. The rest of the contract is toilet paper. That is why NO ONE should fault him for holding out. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    As far as repaying the Hawks, I think getting 22 sacks in 2 years while making well below market value is enough. This is a BUSINESS!

  25. chuck_easton says:

    Yes it’s a business and I am management. You don’t like the contract you signed quit and get a real job!

    If you didn’t figure it out I was pro owner in last year’s lockout.

  26. As chuck said, the Seahawks and the role he (Clem) played on this team changed his career from also-ran to a guy that we think is good (we know he’s a good Leo). This is a guy that only had more than 4 sacks in a season once (8) by the time he went to Seattle in his LATE twenties. I understand his frustration, but don’t agree with it one bit. When he wasn’t earning his contract in pre-Seattle days, did he give any of it back to his other teams? If so, maybe we should take what he gave back and then give him that in the form of the raise he wants? The sad truth though is that this situation sucks because we do need him this year. But the reality for him is that he probably needs the $4 million more than the Seahawks need him. Ultimately, he’ll show up and we’ll root for him in ’12.

  27. bbnate420 says:

    So Chuck, you would work for a law firm that could dump you at any time but, you had to work for them for a set amount of time? I know lawyers are good liars but, not even you could say that with a straight face!

  28. bbnate420 says:

    And what’s a REAL job? One that doesn’t leave you a partial cripple and cognitively impaired for the rest of your life?


  30. chuck_easton says:


    My law firm does one year contracts with all the associates. If you don’t make your numbers we lower your pay or we part ways.

    I’m a firm believer in one year contracts. You want to get paid then perform up to expectations.

  31. Time for Tate to show up!and we really need the young guys to step up.The good thing is we really should be able to pound the ball.

  32. chuck_easton says:


    I’m also a firm believer in incentive based contracts which my firm also has. If you beat your numbers there is a set bonus structure.

    My ideal NFL contract scenario. Is one year contracts with incentive clauses that pay the player for what he has actually done. Not what he did last year or what he might do next year.

    You asked how law firms do it. That is how. Make your numbers you get the same contract next year. Beat your numbers, get a bonus now and a raise next year. Miss your numbers and expect a pay cut or just be cut.

  33. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Lebron James-

    “I don’t always choke, but when I do, it’s in the NBA Finals. Stay angry my friends.”

  34. JIIRISH–WOw, dude, you are SUCH a TROLL! Holy crap I laughed so hard! I hate you for that though.

    Good lord, didnt you know Chuck is a lawyer in CANADA?! Hardly Corporate America…sheesh!

    I dont particularly agree with Chuck, but I see his point. Im not sure what yours is. While I generally support the working class, I am a Seahawks fan–the team, not the individual players, the owners, or the Coaches, but the team as a whole. Sometimes the team is right, sometimes the player.

    In this case I think both are in the wrong. Its wrong of Seattle to force Clemons to play out his contract, when its obvious he’s worth more and they have the cap room, and its even more obvious Seattle wont need him more than one more year max, if at all after this season. Pay the man. But Clemons is a turd, the reporters hate him, likely the team is fully aware that he’s an asshole and so thats part of why they are playing hardball with him. Clemons should honor his contract. It isnt like he’d be offering money back if he sucked or got hurt…

  35. wabubba67 says:

    So you really can polish a turd??

    T-Jack didn’t deserve that, but I couldn’t resist. Would love to have him as a veteran backup for a season (maybe more), but not as a starter.

  36. Palerydr says:

    As a loyal fan of the Sonics I’m boycotting the finals entirely. I blame Howard Schultz first and foremost for my team leaving town he’s a used douche. The collective Seattle area politicians are next they are a(insert appropriate negative adjective here). Clay Clay is an opportunistic weasel and David Stearn is a backstabbing puppet of the owners who I would love to take out to the wood shed and beat with an axe handle. Like him or not LeBron James is the best player in the NBA right now.

  37. OregonHawk says:

    Receivers- show me, the only one to show me is Baldwin, Rice is injured, and the others have shown brief glimpses of promise.

    LB- Lets find us a gamer, hoping Smith can find his health

    Clem- My heart says tear up his current contract and give him 6 mil to 8 mil this year with 4 mil guaranteed, next year you get an option year … My mind says you signed it, play it

  38. wabubba67 says:

    JIRISH–Always good to have an obnoxious, likely drunk, troll on this site. It’s good comedy!

    bbnate–What is negotiated at the expiration of every CBA is the only thing that matters. If the players don’t like the system, they should negotiate a new deal following the current CBA. As such, this is the LEGAL system that both sides (players and owners) have agreed to play by…Clemons entered into his contract with full knowledge.

  39. The troll is goin back under the bridge.STTBM I’m glad I got a laugh out of you! Chuck nothing personal just keep living in Canada and we r good !you and your one year contracts r great up their I’m sure.No need to find out!

  40. chuck_easton says:


    No offense taken. Player contracts is that one area of football that I get passionate to the point of being obnoxious about. I fully admit it.

    I am a fan of the Seahawks team. As has been said on this site by others I root for the laundry. In my 36 years as a Seahawk fan if seen thousands of players come and go. So I have little feeling for the players other than they are wearing my favorite NFL laundry.

    Clemons is on by bad list because his actions are hurting my team. So right now he’s an ungrateful jerk. Next month when he comes to his senses I’ll be cheating him right along side everyone else. Until then he’s dead to me.

    I have no patience for players who think they are bigger than the game. The game was just fine before they were given the opportunity to play and it will be just fine long after nobody can remember they ever played the game we all love.

    So yes, Im anti any player that isn’t on the field wearing my team’s uniform.

  41. chuck_easton says:

    Cheering=cheating. Darn auto correct.

  42. Wabubba67 troll yes obnoxious yes asshole most definitely DRUNK not so fast my friend! I gave that up 9 yrs ago when I retired from football. I may act like a real ass sometimes but in all reallity I just want people to laugh and not take life so serious like I used to do.but don’t get me wrong I have definitely had one too many shots to the head ,that’s for sure!

  43. Wish I could watch mini-camp tomorrow. I guess I’ll have to wait for the footage to be shown on a future documentary: “From the clink to C-link: The Brian Banks Story.”

  44. Chuck-Easton Your a class act! Your welcome at my campfire anytime! Thank you for being so humble!humility is a freedom!

  45. I am a firm believer of being a man of your word- If you signed a 3 year deal – play for three years!

    Like I said before – NO issues with him missing the OTA’s make your point but on required days you should be there!

    Now I know most teams won’t do this but reward some guys – for doing better – In this case extend him for one year and give him a couple mill bonus to bump his pay. But only talk if he is in camp.

  46. chuck_easton says:


    I fully agree. If Clemons comes into camp I would happily cheer a one or two year contract extension. He’s earned it. He’s just going about it the wrong way. I was also thrilled with the re-signing of Red and Lynch. Glad they got good money thtat didn’t put TE team in a bind.

  47. Thonics over the Heat.

    I remain very pissed that our team currently resides in OKC. Haven’t watched the NBA since the departure but I don’t hold it against the players. What I’d really like to see is Schultz, Stern, McClenden, Bennett and Seattle’s mayor at the time all go to prison at the very least until our team comes home. I’d also send Wally Walker on a shorter term for being such an incompetent GM for so long and driving our team into the ground for a decade. I can guarantee that the Key would be packed to the seams for the Sonics right now.

    The only thing that pisses me off more than that is Superbowl XL.

    As for Clem, I hope he’s back when it really counts.

  48. Bet ya $5.00 that if none of the 3 are injured in preseason, TJack is released before the season.

  49. “Ben Obomanu dropped three passes”

    IMO, Obo is horribly over rated & unless he’s needed for special teams, I’d like to see him cut.

  50. Hammajamma says:

    They fight. They make up. Hugs.

  51. I doubt if Pete appreciated Rice’s comments. As someone else commented, he should be focused on his getting ready for the season and leave the coaches to their responsibilities.

  52. bird_spit says:

    I have no hate for what Clemons is doing. Sometimes in life you have to state your position loud and clear. Sometimes management needs a 2×4 across the ear. I have a contract with my company too. I have to be here every day M-F. That does not mean I haven’t had to back my disagreements up by taking some strategic time off. I see what Clem is doing as reasonable and effect in our society. Walter Jones had to make his point across,in the same way in the past. No one worried how Walter Jones effected the young guys… I hope the organization is listening now. They can turn this into a win-win by paying the man.

  53. mojjonation says:

    Does TJ look good because you can’t do anything more than give anyone a pat on the ass wihtout getting into trouble? Until full contact is allowed, everyone on offense should look better than the defense. Once full pads and full contact is allowed, then all bets are off.

    Anyone who pulls for the Heat believes in putting themselves over their employer and occupation. LeDork could average 50 pts a game but I will never root for him. Anytime you make a spectacle out of your new team announcement tells me your ego is bigger than the league itself. Until Wade stops flopping, Haslem stops having a lost look everytime he fouls someone, and Bosh stops screaming when he gets a garbage time bucket, the Heat will be nothing more than Pat Riley’s daycare center. Go Thunder and go Durantula.

  54. RDPoulsbo says:

    I sided with the players in the lockout, but players that hold out are almost always in the wrong in my book and Clemons is no exception. I disagree with Chuck’s idea of 1 year contracts because unlike lawyers, players have 300 lb guys beating them into the ground for about 5 months of the year. Maybe we need guys to do that to lawyers? Anyway, longer term contracts give players and teams a certain level of security. Teams for continuity and players protection of pay in case of injury. If you sign that contract, you should live up to it. It’s also completely fair that teams can cut players since that’s in the CBA agreement players approved.

    Clemons wasn’t playing to the value of the first few years of his contract and probably would have been cut in his 3rd year if not for being traded. He’s lucky he’s earning $4 mil this year as opposed to fighting for a vet minimum contract or even still be in football. He should be thankful for PC resurrecting his career rather than pulling this crap.

  55. RDPoulsbo says:

    T-Jack looking good in minicamp is to be expected for all the reasons already given. It’s why it’s going to take a couple preseason games before the starter is named.

    …and why all the talk about the NBA? They won’t get 1 cent from me, even from advertising dollars by watching a single game. Even if Seattle gets an arena and NBA team, I’ll still boycott them. Alas, I also see the deal as the best shot at getting an NHL team, so I have to go along with wanting an NBA team coming back.

  56. Dukeshire says:

    Yes. Jackson, for the most part, has always practiced well. It not until the games begin, and there is contact and defenses show different looks, that his decision making and inability to avoid sacks, reveal themselves. Beyond that, I presume he is “ahead” of Flynn simply because he’s more familiar with their offense. That will change soon enough.

  57. If there isn’t a starting QB (named Matt or Russ) by week 1 of the preseason, this team is screwed. You can’t have a 3 guy competition for QB running into the preseason. Guard, sure. Tackle, ok. Corner, fine. But QB is far too important to split up the reps that deep into the preseason. A clear cut starter and leader is needed as soon as possible.

    Should the Thunderonics win it all Shultz should personally finance a parade through downtown Seattle.

  58. bbnate420 says:

    I have no illusions about changing anyone’s mind here but, IMO you are ALL MISSING THE POINT!!!!!! Your one year contract analogy really means nothing to this situation, Chuck. You have one year contracts. That means either you or your associates can decide to end your business relationship at the end of the year. See, that is EQUITABLE. You BOTH have the same option. That’s NOT how it is in the NFL. The PLAYER is supposed to play out the ENTIRE contract like it is FULLY GUARANTEED but, the TEAM can dump them whenever they feel the urge. That’s NOT EQUITABLE OR FAIR. I asked earlier for someone to explain how that’s fair. I am STILL WAITING! Wanting Clemons to be there are not hurt the team is understandable, Chuck. Ultimately I feel the same way. But it is NOT RATIONAL. If you want to be an IRRATIONAL fan that is fine but, don’t pretend like you’re taking a logical position. I wish the Hawks could sign 53 pro bowlers that were willing to play for 2 mil a year but, that’s NOT REALITY! If this was baseball, where all the contracts are guaranteed, I would agree that Clemons signed the contract and should show up. BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE! The owners benefit from not having guaranteed contracts so, they and we HAVE to deal with situations like this. I don’t get what’s so complicated about this!

  59. bbnate420 says:

    Oh, and if you think something is fair or right because it is in a contract or law then you really need to remove your head from your nether regions! Segregation used to be the law of the land. Legal but not right or fair. Take a look at our drug laws. The government was able to torture people by simply rewording torture techniques. The NDAA was passed but, MANY constitutional scholars believe it to be unconstitutional. You’d be SHOCKED at what you’ve agreed to if you have any credit cards! You signed the contract but, I bet you wouldn’t like the fact that if you have a dispute with your credit card company you are FORCED to go to arbitration with them. A arbitrator from a company PICKED by the credit card company. And shockingly enough, the arbitration companies side with the people giving them business, the credit card companies, over 93 % of the time. If you think that’s ok because it’s in a contract then you really are a sheep!

  60. wabubba67 says:


    Blacks didn’t negotiate with local municipalities for segregation laws…drug users and dealers don’t negotiate with the government about drug laws. In stark contrast, NFL players DO get to negotiate with owners on equal footing concerning how their business operates to the benefit of both parties.

    The contracts are fair because that is what was determined to be fair at the bargaining table. A player signs a deal knowing full well that, in reality, on the signing bonus and the first year are guaranteed. That is why signing bonuses are such a crucial part of negotiations. In essence a large signing bonus negates the need for the entire contract to be guaranteed (like MLB or the NBA).

  61. wabubba67 says:

    So many straw men, so few matches.

  62. bbnate420 says:

    Wabubba67, you don’t know what you’re talking about. No “drug users and dealers” don’t directly negotiate with their lawmakers but, WE ARE ALL CITIZENS with representation in our law making bodies so, by allowing these laws to stay in place is complicit consent for them. And if you think those laws are okay I suggest you look up the word HYPOCRITE as I have heard you mention that you are at the bar on many of your Mariners postings. Black people did have some power to negotiate/use civil disobedience to get rid of Jim Crow. How do you think it was gotten rid of? White people in power just woke up one day and decided to be nice? The POINT is that because something was officially passed or negotiated doesn’t make it fair or right!

    Regardless, my POINT about NFL contracts wasn’t that not having guaranteed contracts was either fair or not. The POINT is that if the team can terminate the contract at will once the guarantee portion is over then the same should be true for the players if it were fair. It’s not but, they have the recourse of HOLDING OUT! My point is that fans have no right to complain if a player holds out! There are NEGOTIATED fines they have to pay if they hold out so, by your logic of ANYTHING negotiated being fair, it is more than fair for a player to hold out and pay the fines. Right?

    The NFLPA is garbage and that’s why the players have the shitty deal that they do. If you remember, it was the OWNERS that locked the players out last summer and threatened the season to line their GREEDY pockets with a few more billions dollars. The owners have good PR and they are only 32 men, as opposed to over 1,800, so it is easier for them to stick together. Plus, none of the owners have to worry about money in the slightest. That’s not true for A LOT of players. The owners can afford to miss games or even an entire season. I would’ve missed the games but, I was hoping that the players would stick to their guns and put those greedy old bastards in their place. It’s the players that have the skills people throw down their hard earned money to see. I wouldn’t pay to watch Jerry Jones sit on his old white ass. It’s the players that destroy their bodies, and BRAINS, on the field for our enjoyment. That should entitle them to AT LEAST a fair deal with contract terminate procedures and more than 50 % of the profits IMO!

  63. bbnate420 says:


    P.S. I am white so, saying JJ’s old white ass wasn’t meant to have racial overtones.

  64. wabubba67 says:

    Using your examples, the footing is not nearly equal with regards to either segregation or drug use. In the NFL, the owners supply players with a place (stadium, training facility, TV contracts) to play the game, while the players supply the labor. The relationship is equal as both sides can either benefit financially or lose money through this relationship. Clearly, blacks were not treated equally throughout the country (but particularly the south) and police are a part of the civic establishment while drug dealers and user are relegated to outlaw status…not even close to equal power in either case.

    I have no problem with a player holding out as long as he is willing to pay the fines associated with that decision. (It was negotiated, and is therefore his right.) However, I would assume that the player’s decision would have some potential consequence….the team also has the right to cut, trade, or suspend the player.

    Again, the signing bonus negates the need for a contract to be guaranteed for the lifespan of that contract in the NFL. MLB and NBA players do not receive signing bonuses. This is the system that the NFL owners and players have jointly, and equally, devised.

  65. wabubba67 says:

    Segregation ended when white southerners continued to abuse a group of people based upon race just as television became widespread. The result was that the rest of the nation (excluding the deep south) was horrified by what they witnessed each night on TV. The federal government then became interested in enforcing federal laws (the US Constitution) and to also ensure that local authorities (city and county police forces) did not deny black citizens their constitutional right. This began with President Eisenhower (Little Rock, AR) and continued with Kennedy and Johnson. Johnson also used the assassination of Kennedy in order to politically expedite civil rights legislation.

    Brown v. Board of Education was also greatly responsible for the official end to segregation. One could argue that opposing attorneys arguing their cases before the US Supreme Court are, at that point, on equal footing regarding power.

  66. bbnate420 says:

    I already explained while it was NOT jointly or equally devised. The owners have the advantages in negotiating that I aforementioned. Given that, the players have to take some blame for folding like a lawn chair. Unfortunately for them, I have the feeling that the longer the lock out would’ve gone, the more public opinion would’ve turned against the players. The mass of sheep that is the American public seem to like to side with a small group of billionaires over people that are at least closer in social stature to themselves. I don’t have a problem with the owners making a TON of money, like they do. They shouldn’t be taking more of the profits than the players IMO though. As far as providing a stadium for the players to play in, most of the stadiums are at least around 50 % PUBLICLY FUNDED! If they want to pay for everything themselves fine but, if they want to take government welfare then they should have to treat their employees with some degree of fairness IMO. I’ll give JJ credit for that, he funded his football palace privately! Plus, you can pretty much be a high functioning retard at this point and make money as a owner, see Mike Brown. This is not Lamar Hunt and Al Davis.

  67. bbnate420 says:

    Brown vs. Board was important but it was years until it was ENFORCED in the least. The televised mistreatment was due to the campaign of the NAACP and SCLC, and groups like them, to challenge Southern leadership in multiple arenas. The story of Rosa Parks has become a myth were she became fed up and made a snap decision. It was a premeditated act to prove a response. Anyways, I wasn’t trying to say that segregation was EXACTLY the same as NFL contracts. I was just saying that just because something is a rule doesn’t make it right.

    The signing bonuses DO NOT make up for the fact that the contracts are not guaranteed. Most players DO NOT even get a signing contract and most that do get very small ones relatively speaking. Only a small minority like Mario Williams get 50 mil guaranteed. If Clemons had signed his contract last year and was still in the guaranteed portion of the contract then I would be against him holding out. But he has been UNDERPAID FOR TWO YEARS!

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