Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Winslow trade reaction

Post by Eric Williams on May 22, 2012 at 7:17 am with 103 Comments »
May 22, 2012 10:06 am
Tampa Bay Buccaneers' Kellen Winslow (82) leaps over a Carolina Panthers player as Panthers' Jordan Senn (57) closes in during the second quarter of an NFL football game in Charlotte, N.C., Saturday, Dec. 24, 2011.(AP Photo/Bob Leverone, File)

Gary Shelton of the Tampa Bay Times writes that with the arrival of the intense Greg Schiano as the head coach at Tampa Bay, Kellen Winslow was no longer a good fit for the Bucs.

Shelton: In the end, Winslow simply didn’t fit anymore. Not here and not now, not as a player and not as a proclamation. The new coach, Greg Schiano, is urgent, demanding, and his immediate goal is to squeeze everything he can out of the next five minutes. Winslow is a take-his-time, do-it-his-way guy who requires special handling. You could not have imagined a worse match.”

Here’s my story on the Winslow trade.

Brock Huard of ESPN 710 Seattle says that the addition of Winslow will help keep defenses from stacking the box to stop Marshawn Lynch.

Brian McIntyre of NFL.com reports that Winslow has three years and $15.95 million remaining on his deal, and will count $4.8 million against Seattle’s salary cap in 2012.

ESPN’s Mike Sando offers his thoughts on the Kellen Winslow trade: “Winslow, the sixth player chosen in the 2004 draft, is an upgrade over (John) Carlson from a talent standpoint. Questions about Winslow’s knees and attitude have persisted over the years, but Winslow hasn’t missed a game over the last three seasons. He hasn’t incurred the off-field issues that marked the early portion of his career.”

Doug Farrar of Yahoo Sports writes that Seattle used two tight-end sets 39 percent of the time last season.

Dave Boling of The News Tribune profiles Seahawks director of player development Maurice Kelly, who helps keep Seattle players on the right path off the field.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com has the details on the beginning this week’s OTAs. Media availability will be on Thursday this week.

Aaron Schatz of Football Outsiders notes that Seattle linebacker Heath Farwell led the league in special teams tackles last season.

Matt Bowen of the National Football Post writes the league’s discussions of making wearing thigh, hip and knee pads mandatory won’t sit well with defensive backs and wide receivers.

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Leave a comment Comments → 103
  1. Seahawks are going to win the Super Bowl!

    “Book it!”

  2. chuck_easton says:

    Ok Bobby,

    Any idea what color stripes the refs will wear to this superbowl? I wasn’t impressed with the alternating black/gold they wore last time Seattle was there.

  3. beerbobj says:

    I hope we end up giving up a 6th rounder because it means we got some good production out of him.

    Secondly, while Brock and Salk are discussing Winslow’s high contract- none of it is guaranteed! If he comes in with a bad attitude, or has knee issues let him go.

    Oh and one more thing on those knee issues- he had microfracture surgery in 2007 and hasn’t missed a game in three years. He’s 29 years old and much more dynamic than Shiancoe, the only other viable TE option on the market.

  4. Luke warm on this. Winslow may be turning 29 soon but his football age is more like 35. Great hands but not much burst/separation. His presence should, at very least, take some attention away from Zach Miller. Winslow has never really played second fiddle in the TE hierarchy so it’ll be interesting to see how “The Warrior” handles that. As long as he realizes he’s a piece of the puzzle and not the focal point of the offense, I can see this deal adding a useful dimension to the Hawks’ offense.

  5. bird_spit says:

    neklok – I couldn’t agree more. He needs to be all “in” or he needs to not be here. Curious how they handle the whole “compete” thing. This move seems out of the normal PC move.

  6. beerbobj says:

    Okay so I realize that Beast Mode was 24( maybe 25) when we traded a 4th and other pick for him, but many of these same issues were brought up. How would he buy into the program? Would he leave his off the field issues behind him?

    Granted, Lynch didn’t have the injury history, but 5 out of the 8 years Winslow has been in the league, he would have set franchise records for catches by a Seahawks TE. That’s pretty impressive. I’m just pumped. Again, a 6th rounder is nothing to give up for a player with his abilities.

  7. Jusjamn says:

    Miller will never get out in a pattern now. Maybe that’s ok. He’s an excellent blocker. I wouldn’t think he would like it though. For some reason there’s a lot of blind trust in the OLine from fans, but I just don’t see it. Hope I’m wrong on that one!

  8. I’ve been dying for a move like this. Pete Carroll has been full of BS saying he was “happy with the TE position” as it was. Bull. Carlson was a big loss ever since he got injured in Chicago, and if Miller went down injured our offense would have been in trouble. The draft had only a few good TEs, so this move was needed. This signing tells Anthony McCoy that his time is up, and tells Morrah he had better take another step up if he expects playing time.

    Winslow, Miller, and Morrah should be a deep and versatile set of TEs. We should be running a 2 TE offense close to 50% of the time now. This will take a lot of pressure off Flynn and his mostly-young WRs.

    I can’t believe we got him for a 6th or 7th round pick. John Schneider is the man.

  9. hawkdawg says:

    For a guy with no burst or separation, Winslow gets a lot of catches.

    At the price of a conditional 6th/7th, this is a no brainer. Cap number for this year seems a little on the spendy side, but we’ve got room, and Schneider might take a whack at rejiggering that contract before too long…

  10. Ambassador says:

    Eric, is that $15.95 an hour or just a typo? I was thinking, wow, Winslow is repin’ the 99%. lol

  11. Southendzone says:

    Can’t complain about this move at all. For those that worry about his injury or attitude, if either of those prove a problem he won’t make the team and then the 4.8M salary hit vanishes.

    Tons of potential upside on this one, I liked the Brock Huard article link above.

  12. chuck_easton says:

    Problem is the attitude thing seems to kick in once he’s made the team. Won’t practice all week so he can rest his knees and then wants to be the focal point of the offense on Sunday.

    That kind of thing isn’t going to fly in this lockerroom.

  13. Ewalters7354 says:

    I believe Miller will have a decent season as well as K2 but we just need a QB that can distribute the ball to these guys.Hopefully Matt Flynn or Russell Wilson is the guys.If either can become a top 15 QB we will be great!

    This team has talent and a great staff coaching them.Now hopefully it can all combine together and we can be a team to be reckoned with in the league.

  14. If he catches 5 balls a game and they’re winning I can’t imagine the locker room will care if he practices or not. Hell, he’s an old dude in that locker room, I suspect they’ll respect his elderly ass regardless!

    You seem much more negative about this signing than I normally think of you chuck, did The Souljah take your lunch money or something?

  15. Did he crash you Ninja bike? Give you staph?

  16. WiscCory says:

    Winslow and Lynch are a bad asses. Hawks offense in 2012 will have serious attitude. It’s going to be fun to watch.

    I don’t know if the Hawks are ready for playoffs, however I appreciate that John/Pete have tranformed this team from it’s “Holmgrem finesse offense” from the 2000′s to a punch you in-the-jaw attack for the 2010′s. This team will be fun to watch.

    This year’s QB competition has to be as much about control and command, as it is about X’s and O’s. We need a ring leader to hold the reigns on this one!! IMO, this offense is not one for a rookie QB to be the starter.

  17. WiscCory says:

    Winslow and Lynch are a bad asses. Hawks offense in 2012 will have serious attitude. It’s going to be fun to watch.

    I don’t know if the Hawks are ready for playoffs, however I appreciate that John/Pete have tranformed this team from it’s “Holmgrem finesse offense” from the 2000′s to a punch you in-the-jaw attack for the 2010′s. This team will be fun to watch.

    This year’s QB competition has to be as much about control and command, as it is about X’s and O’s. We need a ring leader to hold the reigns on this one!! IMO, this offense is not one for a rookie QB to be the starter. Hopefully this OTA will bring Flynn to the forefront and bring those QB questions to closure.

  18. chuck_easton says:

    JoSch,

    I’m trying REAL hard to like this trade. I do love the fact he hasn’t missed a game in 3 years and averages 70+ receptions and 700+ yards a season. That part I like.

    I just have never cared for Winslow the person throughout his career.

    It strikes me as odd that pretty much every Bucs fan commenting on this trade says ‘good riddance’. That’s not something I’d be saying about a 700 yrds per season receiver. That tells me something.

  19. RDPoulsbo says:

    At the price of a 7th rounder, it’s nothing but a flyer trade. They’ll have all offseason and TC to see how well the knee will do before making the decision to keep him or not. That’s all for a guy who has averaged more catches per year than the Seattle record for TEs. For that kind of production, he’s certainly worth a shot.

    I’m a little concerned about the knee given the contract, but I’m not going to hold character issues against him from almost 10 years ago when he was just coming into the league.

  20. psoundpowerhouse says:

    I’m surprised Seattle wants him. Winslow has been a class A jerk ever since his college days. Alot of T.O. in him.
    Guarantee he will implode at some point this season. Probably throw the Qb under the bus etc…

  21. psoundpowerhouse says:

    Watched a Buc’s game last year where he was being a punk wth Josh Freeman during a game.
    I knew he was done at that point. Tampa’s front office saw it too.

  22. Ewalters7354 says:

    Every time the Hawks sign a player that’s had issues in the past or is in his late 20s early 30s he’s automatically old and career is over(I hate when fans do that)But when healthy this guy is an absolute headache for a defense.If any team knows that it’s the Hawks.So if our QB position can be solid this guy will be a big help to this team.Guys let’s remember this guy is human and everyone has faults so stop looking for perfect players and appreciate guys that actually has the skill set that will immediately help this team.

  23. chuck_easton says:

    There’s a reason Seattle took an 8 million dollar hit on the TJ Houshmanzadah contract. The guy was a grade A douche from the minute he showed up in Seattle.

    I still remember the game where he went all nuclear on Hasselbeck because the ball wasn’t thrown to him.

    Sit Jr. down and show him some of TJ’s act. Then tell him that is why TJ was invited to leave and take his guaranteed contract with him. Then remind Jr. that there is nothing guaranteed in HIS contract.

  24. Not sure what to think of this trade…but I do trust what the Seahawks management is creating. Winslow, if happy, plays like a stud and he is quite the bad A$$. I look at what he did last year with an average QB. Some nice numbers…but with Flynn, Lynch, and a decent receiver corp, he could be awesome at dumping too and getting him the ball to make something happen. I like what I am seeing with the Seahawks and only hope that PC has the ability to make this work!

  25. guiltybystander says:

    While there’s a reason the Bucs were willing to deal a productive TE for only a sixth- or seventh-round pick, this is about as low-risk as you can get. If Winslow’s knees or attitude keep him from being productive, the Hawks can let him go and bring in another TE.

    Pete Carroll seems to like players who are said to have “character issues” (some of whom have proven they do) so maybe he’ll find a way to reach Winslow. We shall see.

    And WiscCory, Flynn probably SHOULD be the starter, but all Russell Wilson did within days of transferring to Wisconsin last summer was call a team meeting, after which he was named a captain. He then led the Badgers to a Big 10 title and the Rose Bowl. Wilson has shown leadership skills most presidents can only dream of having. As young as the Seattle offense is, it wouldn’t be a huge stretch to imagine Wilson in control of the huddle…the guy’s just got “it.”

    I actually grew to like Tarvaris Jackson last year, but I think his days in Seattle are numbered. $4 million is a lot to pay a third-stringer and Jackson may at least bring a draft pick in a trade. Josh Portis is cheaper and has more upside at the #3.

  26. Its hard to “compete,” as the coach likes to say, when you can’t practice.
    From Sando’s blog:
    “Winslow’s bad knee is also worth our consideration here. The knee has kept Winslow off the practice field. Seattle will have to manage the injury throughout training camp and the regular season. Winslow has managed to produce anyway. He has missed no games over the past three seasons.”

  27. Autenpus says:

    If he produces like he has in the past, while healthy, this is a HUGE pick up. Takes a ton of pressure off the rush and gives Wilson/Flynn a nasty target. Off the field issues from the past are irrelevant (Bruce Irvin) if the guy can stay on the field and produce. Petey C isn’t going to put up with ego B.S. and if that becomes an issue, Winslow will be unemployed and we will lose a 7th rounder; big deal.

  28. Dukeshire says:

    Been out of the loop for a couple days. Wow. My first reaction is a comparison to the Lendale White trade: gave up little for a potential upgrade, and a major attitude. If Jr doesn’t buy in, Carroll will have no issue breaking him off. However, if his knee is sound and if he buys in, this is a potential steal.

  29. from twitter:

    “Kellen Winslow gets ripped, but 437 catches since 2004 trail only Gonzalez, Witten and Gates among TEs”

    whatever the issue w/his knees, he hasn’t missed a game in 3 years, and has been very productive. as others have said, it’s basically a zero-risk flier. and it adds a useful potential weapon for flynn. I like it.

  30. bbnate420 says:

    Repeat I say REPEAT, He has played in 48 of the 48 games the last 3 seasons!!!!!! Does that penetrate through some of your THICK skulls!!!!!! Who cares if he cannot practice all the time. Practice has been greatly reduced during the season anyways. As Allen Iverson would say, “Practice? We’re talkin about practice?”

    Chuck, I would think that being a lawyer you would refrain from besmirching his character with a MAJOR lack of evidence. I don’t know what you’re reading but, a lot of the fans commenting on SB Nation, Bucs Nation, were pretty positive about Winslow.
    http://www.bucsnation.com/2012/5/22/3035966/tampa-bay-buccaneers-trade-kellen-winslow-jr-seattle-seahawks
    If you don’t like what he says then fine but, it doesn’t make him a bad teammate like TJ was. This guy seems to be guilty of people getting their panties in a bunch over some of the things he says, i.e. making a military analogy that the media blew up to get ratings from sheep that cannot think for themselves, and wanting to spend some of his OFF-SEASON at home in San Diego. How horrible! People forget that these OTA’s are VOLUNTARY!!! And he has been at some of them. I wonder how many people would go to their jobs on days that were voluntary! If he needs to rest more, stay home more, and not practice all the time that is fine with me if he produces like he has!

  31. I have no problem with the trade. I like it, actually. A 6th or 7th rounder for a major upgrade at a position in need of an upgrade? I like it.

    However, I love it how when some players of questionable character are on other teams — all we do is talk about what worthless players/people they are. But then when we get one of those people (that we may or may not have been wright/wrong about), we all talk about they aren’t that bad and have been misunderstood. LOL!

  32. Ewalters7354 says:

    I believe this team is going to be fun to watch a lot like the Detroit Lions were last year.These guys managed to win 7 games with mediocre QB play.Had they played that type of ball all last year this would have been a 10-6 team.The only obstacle that can hold this team back is youth(one of the youngest in the league).

    I remember the last few years the Hawks faced K2 he aggravated the hell out of me cause nobody on our team could match him.He’s going to be a headache for a DC because he would absolutely kill a linebacker or safety,so you have to account for Lynch,Rice,K2,Baldwin and etc…this is a very exciting team to be a fan of!!

  33. Ewalters7354 says:

    Bobby,Lmao…u couldn’t be anymore right lol

  34. guiltybystander – You really don’t think any other team in the NFL would trade anything for T-Jack, do you? Would you be happy if we traded for and paid someone $4 million to not be good?

  35. Soggybuc says:

    There are 32 teams, so 32 different cultures/companies. I’m sure most of you have worked someplace with a bad structure and management that made for a crappy place to work. how was your attitude? I’m sure you have also worked where the structure and management was a better fit for you and that was all the difference you needed to be the best employee you could be.
    Hawks are one of better run companies in the business that it’s employee’s love to work for could just be the home KW needs to thrive. happy KW = big find for the Hawks because unhappy KW still caught 70 passes a year.

  36. “Winslow is a take-his-time, do-it-his-way guy who requires special handling.”

    Great, sounds like a prima donna in need of constant ego massage. I hope it works out, there is alot of upside.

  37. Dukeshire says:

    bbnate420 – Familiarity with a particular system makes practice less critical. Winslow will be walking into a new system with an unsettled QB situation. Reps in practice will be important, for him, Flynn / Wilson / Jackson, and the offense as a whole. In other words, this is not an AI situation. At all.

  38. Great pick up. Zero risk, high potential. Think about the QB’s Winslow has had to endure and he still produced. Now imagine Flynn throwing to his ass, could be a beautiful pairing in the making. Also, what Hawk has played every game in the last 3 years. Oh yeah, and practice, who cares, the guy produces in games. Some players are just gifted like that, not everyone needs to practice, let him rest his knees. I’m tired of people whinning about practice, life is not fair, some people have to practice, others don’t. Finally, if the dude is a cancer or doesn’t buy in, drop him, like Duke said, remeber Lendale.

  39. Dukeshire says:

    “Winslow is a take-his-time, do-it-his-way guy who requires special handling.”

    If that proves to be the case, he’ll not see the opening day roster.

  40. chuck_easton says:

    bbnate420,

    Can’t help it. I don’t like the guy, and I never have. It goes back to his days at the ‘U’. Back in his college days, and at both of his NFL stops he has been a ‘me’ ‘me’ ‘me’ guy. So I’m not just regurgetating the media hype.

    Talk to some Cleveland fans. Talk to some Bucs fans.

    But, that is water under the bridge. Winslow is now wearing the colors of my favorite team and I will cheer for him just as loud on Sundays. So, yay KW!

    Just don’t color me ‘shocked’ if this all goes horribly wrong in the coming months.

    And just so this isn’t personal because I don’t want to hurt KW’s feelings, I would feel the same if any of the following were suddenly on this team (Roethlisberger, Vilma, Tebow, T.O., Ochocinco, Crabtree, Dez Bryant, Vick…)

  41. footballscaa says:

    Good TE, good move. Paid almost nothing for him too. Nice.

  42. bbnate420 says:

    “Winslow is a take-his-time, do-it-his-way guy who requires special handling.”

    This is a QUOTE from a writer. It may be true but, let’s not pretend it is a FACT! It takes all kinds to make a football team. It would be great if all 53 players were talented and give-100 % boy scouts. But that’s not reality. Unless he’s a bad teammate and a cancer, I don’t care about the other noise. Realistically, some people with certain attributes get different treatment from the majority of us. Unlike a statuesque blond with large breasts, I don’t usually get out of traffic tickets and don’t get many drinks for free at the bar! That’s life.

  43. bbnate420 says:

    One thing I know for sure is that I don’t know Winslow personally and, I highly doubt anyone on this blog does either. I doubt anyone here would like it if someone judged them entirely based on second-hand evaluations of themselves.

    Duke, I agree to a certain extent but, I don’t think that Winslow needs a massive amount of reps to acclimate himself to the team. And I’m sure he will be here for some OTA’s. He participated in some with Tampa. He just wanted to be in San Diego for some of them, which is his right. He will have minicamp and training camp. If they got him thinking he was going to practice 100 % of the time, then they shouldn’t have traded for him. He has about ZERO cartilage left in his right knee! He isn’t going to be able to be a full time practice player anymore. That’s the reality! I couldn’t care less if he shows up in the games, like he always has.

  44. Just a reminder, Tampa Bay was 4-12 last year, Buc fans are looking to blame anyone they can…. I can’t imagine a very happy locker room in this scenario…..

  45. bbnate420 says:

    BobbyK, it is certainly possible that the Hawks could get a LATE round pick for TJack if someone has an injury at QB or they feel they need a # 2 bad enough. Not everyone is as delusional and biased against TJack as you are. I guess you thought Cinci was going to get a 1st and another 2nd/1st for Palmer last year? All it takes is ONE team to pull the trigger. NFL execs can read statistics, which it seems you cannot.

    Were you really serious that you would take Stouffer, McQwire, Gelbaugh, or Mirer over TJack? Please say it ain’t so!

  46. chuck_easton says:

    bbnate420,

    Great debate going here. Keep it up! Nice to have the ability to disagree without it resorting to name calling.

    I honestly hope your opinion of Winslow is correct and mine turns out to be wrong.

    You don’t need to be a choir boy to be a team player. That is my issue with what is being said about Winslow. He does it his way and doesn’t want to listen to the coaches. Let’s hope PC and some of the vocal guys can get through to him or he is on a fast track to the TJ, White, e-ticket ride out of town.

    I don’t care what a guy does in his own free time just so long as he’s all in when it comes to the team. It’s why I never could accept DJack on the team. It was all about him getting his and not about what was good for the team. I don’t recall DJack ever being a problem off the field, but he was a problem in the locker room and he was definitely not a team type of guy.

    All indications are that Winslow is not exactly going to be missed in the Tampa locker room. While I wasn’t there and don’t have first hand knowledge, the fact the team was willing to part with their leading receiver for a 7th round draft choice doesn’t exactly scream ‘we love this guy, and we wish him the best…’.

  47. Dukeshire says:

    bbnate420 – This isn’t about being a “boy scout”. It’s about buying into what Carroll wants. It’s about not being a me-first player. It’s about dedicated the the team. These are things Winslow has struggled with in college, in Cleveland, and in Tampa. Perhaps he’s matured. For the Seahawks, I hope so.

  48. nate – Yes. I hate Jackson that bad (even if reality clouds my judgement such as Jackson actually being “better” than a bum like McGwire).

    No way anyone trades anything for Jackson. The only reason he has a job here is b/c of Bevell and knowing the system.

    There are plenty of people from the history of the world that I have never known personally, yet I think there are enough facts to show that they weren’t nice people.

    I remember being on the Mariners blog a few years ago and making fun of Milton Bradley and there were a couple of fans who were sticking up for him and talking about how this time it would be different.

    I heard the negative things said about his character at the “U” and at both stops in the NFL, but I don’t care. I’ve already said that this is a good risk/reward move.

    However, if he had been traded to the Cards or 49ers, I highly doubt that you’d be so emotional about defending his character.

  49. Do you think Bill Belichick worried about what other folks thought of Randy Moss when he signed him? Or Corey Dillon? He was a coach with a vision of what he wanted and enough confidence to know he could handle the distraction if there was one. Pete Carroll is the same way. Has confidence/cockiness to think he can make the square peg fit the round hole. More power to him. His job is about wins. He doesn’t care what you and I think, he probably doesn’t care what Marshawn Lynch, Sidney Rice, Matt Flynn or Zach Miller think either. If this works out, he is a hero. If he cuts bait, he doesn’t lose anything either. I’m just excited to be talking about football again.

  50. Honestly, if Winslow works, awesome, if not, it’s not like its going to set the team back. This move can only affect the team positely or not at all. We got a potential safety net for Flynn, and a pressure relief if our wideouts get hurt or don’t live up to expectations.

  51. Positively

  52. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, I hope I’m right as well! ; ) Actually, I don’t necessarily have anything to be right about specifically with regard to Winslow. He may be a horrible teammate. I just haven’t seen enough evidence to make that conclusion yet personally. I think we can all agree that we hope he is a good teammate and team player for the Hawks. I do think that is important for a team. It’s also a matter of degree though as well. I think a team can withstand having a few players that are too narcissistic, if they are major producers on the field. If he turns out to be a cancer, then they will drop him with little lost in relation to the potential gain.

    P.S. It is nice to be able to have a dialogue/disagreement without being children about it. A couple of threads back someone graciously invited me to consume a rather unappetizing object because they didn’t like the fact that I disagreed with their belief that Red wasn’t a vocal leader.

    To paraphrase Milton, “Through dialogue we gain understanding. Through reading we gain knowledge. Through writing we gain precision.” Hopefully we can do all three here.

  53. chuck_easton says:

    Ok,

    I will provide one more bit of fuel to the fire and then I’ve said my full piece.

    If you go to the Buc’s official website try to find anything about the Winslow trade. It will be hard, but if you read the glowing article about the signing of Dallas Clark you can find one line about half-way down that basically says “the team also announced the trade of Kellen Winslow to Seattle for a conditional pick”.

    That’s it. Other than that one line in another story, it’s as if Winslow just vanished.

    God, I hope I’m completely out on this one, but something doesn’t feel right about this signing.

  54. nate – Great quote. That’s part of why I love this blog.

  55. bbnate420 says:

    Chuck, it’s the TEAM website. What would you expect? Them to glow about someone they just shipped off for a 6th/7th rounder? By the way, Jack Z and Wedge both like the players on the M’s roster! Not exactly unbiased.

    BobbyK and Duke, you both may be right about Winslow but, all I have ever seen is rumor and innuendo. If you have anything concrete about him I may change my tune.

    BobbyK, I am not emotional AT ALL about Winslow. I haven’t even made a DEFINITIVE statement about his attitude. If he was traded to the Cards or 49ers I probably wouldn’t be mentioning it as I doubt it wold get a thread. I wouldn’t like it if either the 49ers or the Cards had signed him. That’s for sure. He would be a weapon for either team. The biggest issue may be the fact that he won’t always be the first TE on the field. If he really is as narcissistic as some here suggest, he might not take too kindly to that. Hopefully, even if he has been like that in the past, he is old enough to see the end of his career and he just wants to win now.

    Lastly BobbyK, yes there are some people you can label as bad people without personally knowing them. Like Hitler. But Winslow has hardly done anything that has been proven that is enough for me to label him as a bad person. You can make your own judgements obviously. Frankly, neither or our opinions about him make any difference in what he does here. I just get the impression that you like to judge people too harshly IMO. Like your hatred of Portis. My experience is that people that are too eager and draconian in their judgement of the behavior and morality of others usually have skeletons busting out of their own closet. It’s best for us all to focus on our own faults.

  56. I think KII is a 1-2 year thing. He may only be a 1 year rental. That’s fine. When you’re a cancer (not saying he’s a cancer), it’s harder to be “that guy” in your first year. You have moved to someone else’s team. Granted, there are always exceptions (TO, Haynesworthless, etc.) but the average “cancer” doesn’t get crazy his first year. ***IF*** that’s the way for KII, that’s fine with me. We’ll use him this year, he’ll produce and help, and we’ll move on for a 6th-7th round pick (of which can easily be replaced by a trade down in the first 1-4 rounds).

  57. I would be fine with Portis if he wasn’t a QB.

  58. Instead of emotional, how about adamant?

  59. RDPoulsbo says:

    From everything I’ve read, this is a new regime coming in and cleaning house. According to Peter King, Greg Schiano is a big control freak in the same cloth as a Shannahan or a Belichick. It would seem the different approaches to the game would inevitably come to head. PC certainly doesn’t take that approach, so Winslow just might be a better fit. Besides, a new regime usually means a roster purge. Many times, the simple explanation is the right one over some innuendo about the motives of another team to unload a guy.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/05/22/mmqb-tuesday/

  60. bbnate420 says:

    By the way, hope you don’t take anything I said in the last post personally BobbyK. I think you’re one of the more interesting and informed posters on here.

    Sadly, real life is getting in the way and I must take a break from the posting.

  61. Cable was just on KJR, said Winslow wants to win now and said he’s willing to do whatever it takes which was a main factor in stealing him from TB. Obviously he could just be saying all the right things (Cable), but he sounded convincing. Hope he’s right.

  62. bbnate420 says:

    Adamant is fine. I’ll go with that. I doubt KII is here more than 2-3 years. I would be a decentt sum that he doesn’t make it to year three without reworking his contract anyways.

  63. Strategicdust says:

    As I mentioned in my last post, there really is very little downside here. There’s not guaranteed money,the cost was a very low draft pick and we already have depth to replace him if he doesn’t work out. People say and do a lot of things in their twenties that don’t reflect well on them later (count me as one of them)but every new situation can be a fresh start. There’s no need to prejudge someone and start them off in a bad light. Let’s see how he responds to a new team on the rise and give him the benefit of the doubt.
    This was a smart, low risk chance to take, let’s just hope it works out for everyone.

  64. freedom_X says:

    I guess that’s the risk with Winslow. A heck of a lot more people than I thought have openly stated the opinion he is a bad teammate and a cancer.

    But knowing he was traded for a bag of peanuts hopefully will be a wakeup call for Winslow. Maybe even more than if he just been cut loose.

  65. If you look at the “weapons” in the receiving department before this regime took over to what we have now, it’s a pretty amazing turnaround.

  66. Strategicdust says:

    BobbyK, I was thinking the same thing. It wasn’t long ago we really didn’t have much in terms of play makers. The roster was aging, injured frequently and didn’t have much upside. We had a front office that was more inclined to choose older players and pay them for their past production rather than growing a group together. There’s so much more upside to our skill positions over the last few years and we’re actually building quality depth which is critical. It’s certainly much more fun to watch the Seahawks these days. What a difference having a quality front office and coaching stuff can make!

  67. pabuwal says:

    Unless Lockette develops and becomes what we think he can become, I wouldn’t say the Seahawks have any receiving threats that scare a defense vertically.

    Tate has trouble getting open, Obomanu can get open but has trouble catching, Williams has zero value, Butler’s talents are a dime a dozen in the NFL and Rice is a solid 80 catch, 1200 yard player (but I only give him a 30% chance of playing all 16 games). I don’t know what to make of Durham.

    I think Lockette is the Seahawks Fantasy Sleeper of 2012.

  68. boucherm says:

    When K2 came into the league he had the make-up to be one of the better tight ends ever. Between his injuries and the low-level teams he’s played on, he’ll never reach that kind of status. He has, however, been very productive–his average season is 18 catches better than any TE in Hawks history, and we’ve just gotten him for a song.
    My only reservation is, if he’s out of line who is the locker room leader (specifically on offense) that can help right things? I can’t think of anyone with the status and the personality to fill that role. If K2 comes in with a great attitude, he could actually be the kind of vocal leader that can help bring young and inexperienced guys together, like he was initially in Tampa.

  69. bird_spit says:

    I just hope he isnt given #83, and warms a bench due to injury or not wanting to be a team guy. BTW– I totally agree..no downside. He can be out the door before September. There is plenty of time to assess him before then. Cable teaches / demands receivers block down field. If K2 is not into it, Cable will own his butt. I think the hawks are in capable hands. It really is a JS deal, PC agreed, and Cable gets to own the player. If K2 comes in, learns the system, and can do what he has done in the past, while being in this system, then Hawks win. It will be the trade of the year. Go Hawks!

    Are the Hawks becoming the Oakland Raiders BTW? Hawks have a break mouth offensive system thanks to Cable/Beast. Hawks like for players to resurrect here. I’m cool with it..just win baby!

  70. 51 catches – Baldwin last year, leading Hawk receiver. Winslow averged 70 catches his career, interesting.

  71. That could be a T. Jax stat though.

  72. pabuwal says:

    How did I forget about Doug Baldwin? He’s a very solid player, another 70 catch, 1000 yard kind of guy. But he doesn’t strike fear into opposing defenses.

  73. They better not be the raiders. Paul Allen knows better than to put his hands on a roster of an NFL team.

    Kellen Winslow is a bad dude, not from the attitude stand point, but from the line of, he’ll knock your ass out on the field. I’m really excited to see some players coming out with grit and grime.

    I’m gonna take the attitude claims with a grain of salt. I don’t particularly care for egotistical asshole players, but to be quite honest, that’s what the majority of us expected when Marshawn Lynch was brought in, and, well… we all saw how that worked out.

    I have a feeling we’re gonna see Kellen laying some people out in the middle this season and getting some YAC, something I feel this team has lacked for a while.

  74. Southendzone says:

    He has huge incentive to play well because if he fails to make the team, he won’t be in line to get re-signed for a similar contract. He’s got a great contract for himself for the next 3 years and will play hard to keep it intact.

    The comparison to Lendale White isn’t that accurate. I don’t remember LW ever showing much success in the league, while K2 is a proven TE. Lendale was a rehab project.

  75. chuck_easton says:

    Eric,

    Were OTA’s open to the media today? Any insights?

    I’m moving on from Winslow for now. He’s one of us, until he isn’t. If he’s wearing our uniform come opening day I’ll cheer him just as loudly as all the other guys on the team.

    Hey, if I can spend holidays with some of my family members and keep the turkey down, I can easily overlook any misgivings I have for Winslow and root for him to produce.

  76. bulldog80 says:

    Winslow is a stud, this is a GREAT signing. Look at his production with some of the crappiest QB’s in the league. If you’ve ever seen any of his games he always gives great effort and has unbelievable hands. If we can get even mediocre QB play, our offense will be very good.

  77. pabuwal says:

    Winslow was a stud but his knees are getting to him now. We just have to hope the health of his knees don’t fall off a cliff this year.

  78. The Seahawks are now stacked with big possession receivers. Think Flynn is celebrating? This ain’t Green Bay with its high flying WR corps, but any time Flynn needs to dump the ball off for short yardage he will have more than enough options.

    This offense is now built to be one of the better ball control offenses in the league. The O line has to step up another notch and the young WRs need to mature, and our QBs need to get reps and learn, but we are no longer lacking the personnel needed to control the ball, control the clock, and grind out first downs. Welcome to Tom Cable offense.

    I feel like filling this TE gap was the final piece we needed for this year. I would have liked adding another WR too, but I’m greedy. BMW just became a lot less valuable to this team, since our offense is now full of possession receivers. And the 2 TE offense will create some tough matchups for opposing linebackers and safeties. This team may not make a lot of ESPN highlight plays, but they will be hell to stop from gaining first downs.

    And I say this without even being certain who the starting QB will be. TJack can win 10 or 11 games with this offense. So can Flynn. The QB job for this team is getting easier.

  79. “Hey, if I can spend holidays with some of my family members and keep the turkey down, I can easily overlook any misgivings I have…”

    LOL.. Very charitable of you, chuck!

  80. raymaines says:

    I would love to have picked the next Tony Gonzalez with the sixth round pick. A guy with immense talent, no red flags or “issues”, and who would play for the next 18-20 and then go the HoF. Well, that didn’t happen so how about if I take KW2 for two or three years with next years #6 pick? Works for me.

    and Chuck: How could you possibly lump Tim Tebow in with the rest of these guys? “(Roethlisberger, Vilma, Tebow, T.O., Ochocinco, Crabtree, Dez Bryant, Vick…)” TT isn’t a very good QB but he is the hardest working, most coachable, team orientated guy in the NFL today. He’s a polorizing figure but a great leader and clearly makes the players around him better. Come on, man.

  81. pabs – We may not have top 5 receivers or anything, but this is so much more than what we had 3-4-5 years ago.

  82. chuck_easton says:

    I was wondering when somebody was going to notice Tebow in there raymaines.

    I put Tebow in there more for what he didn’t say last year than what he did. When the whole billboard thing came out a simple “well I’m flattered, but Orton is our starter” would have gone a long way towards showing he is a team player.

    His silence was deafening and did nothing but pour gasoline on the fire.

    That is not a team player. That is a guy that is all about Tebow.

    Oh, that and he’s just, so, NICE…

  83. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I would rather have his father, however father time won’t allow that to happen! Lol.

    At least he has a great last name! Better than Loseslow.

  84. pabuwal says:

    BobbyK – that’s only true if Rice stays healthy and/or Lockette develops. Otherwise, its just as bad as its ever been (except for 2008). This includes Baldwin as the only reliable, injury-free target.

  85. The roster overhaul has been flat out impressive. Feel the same as Stevos on this move in that it completes the puzzle of addressing 2012′s greatest needs. Now it really comes down to Health and that will be the huge-mungus factor that it always is.

    If we can stay relatively healthy and the offense has time to grow together this could be a very dangerous team by the end of the season. I’ve never been this excited with regards to player/roster development in any single year in Seahawks history.

  86. I am liking the fact that the Seahawks took a gamble on Winslow! Reporters have said that if PC cannot coach a player, then nobody can. Its his way of coaching. What the heck is there to lose. He could turn into a huge weapon for the Hawks which will in turn open the running game and the long passing game. Sidney Rice could benefit from him alot. Lynch will because of the passing option. More big holes for Lynch to score and enjoy his Skittles after each TD.

    As for T-Jax being traded…I doubt it. Most teams have figured out that the Hawks have a surplus at QB with drafting one. T-Jax is not going to make this team and a team will wait for him to be cut before giving up a draft choice. But then again, injuries do happen and needs have to be met.

    Its nice being able to talk about football and knowing that it is right around the corner. Ordering the Direct TV football package today! I am ready for some football!

  87. boucherm says:

    TJack has no trade value. Another team may very well want him, but at $350k a year, not $4mil.

  88. boucherm says:

    Immediately rethought that–if Whitehurst makes $2mil a year, maybe TJack is worth that to somebody. Still, not in a trade.

  89. ruminator1 says:

    Chuck, I think you are way off on Tebow. Sorry he didn’t use your words. but that does not prove he isn’t a team player. it was pretty obvious other Denver players got behind him. even Sanchez is saying good things about him in this vein.

  90. freedom_X says:

    Seattle is a black hole for tight ends. The single season reception leader for Seattle TE’s is the much maligned John Carlson. The careers of TE’s seem to come to Seattle to die, as Zach Miller can attest to.

    Even Mike Holmgren couldn’t seem to come up with a reliable target at TE until he finally got Carlson, who showed great promise then was swallowed up by the Seahawk void.

    Until Seattle’s weapons can prove they can stay healthy, they’re as much of a threat as a holstered gun locked in a cabinet.

  91. Actually, our TEs have been forced to be glorified blockers, thanks to inept pass “protection” the past several years (especially from RT).

    However, there’s a chance for KII to do well. Miller is going to be the in line $7 million glorified blocker who will waste away with respect to receiving stats. But since Miller will be worthless (for fantasy purposes), it’ll give a guy like KII a chance to do quite a bit of damage in the passing game. Now, if we didn’t already have Miller here to be the goat of getting the grunt work, then it’d fall on KII, so then he’d come to the Black Hole of TEs, too. But he’s going to be set up fairly well in Seattle. I think he’ll have a good year.

  92. RDPoulsbo says:

    If you ever watched the breakdowns of plays that Brock Huard does every week, you really see that Miller was the best blocker on the entire line last season. Whenever Lynch broke a big run, it was usually Miller that sprung him. Yeah, it’s not FFL excitement, but he was definitely worth every dollar they spent on him.

    I wouldn’t necessarily call Seattle a black hole for TEs over the years as much as there’s never been a scheme in place that used them heavily in the passing game. Holmgren was probably the closest, but never could get a good one. Even so, it was very much a traditional TE usage. Knox might be 2nd and Tice was good, but he too was needed to block more than needed in the passing game. The 2nd half of last season gave a lot of promise that an extremely inexperienced o-line was finally coming into their own. If they can pick up where they left off last year, Miller will not be needed to block nearly as much.

    As for Winslow, I honestly don’t expect him to continue to put up numbers like he has. You can’t considering how few weapons they had in TB. You should want Seattle to spread the ball around more than they did. 30-40 catches and about 30-40% of snaps and I’d call it a success as long as he opened things up for the running game and other options in the middle. Just remember that he’s very much an H-Back TE, not so much an in-line player like Miller. Every snap with him on the field means Robinson will be on the sidelines. Lynch as said before that he prefers having a FB as a lead blocker when he runs the ball. H-Backs don’t really provide much blocking on a run play.

  93. Dukeshire says:

    I’m not terribly sure why anyone would be against this move. It’s virtually zero risk. The fact Tampa practally gave him away says a lot (to me) about what they thought of him. Especially in a league that is becoming more and more TE-centric. Regardless, as I said, there’s almost no risk here. If he can continue to perform a his previous level *and* mesh with this locker room, it’s a huge win. If not, he’ll go the way of Lendale White.

  94. Hammajamma says:

    If we put all the discussion about his character aside and just watch game film, I’d be shocked if he didn’t make the roster. Adamantly.

  95. It’s a weird market for NFL veterans sometimes. I know it was much, much more contract-related than this Winslow trade, but Asante Samuel was also traded for a 7th round pick this off-season.

  96. Macabrevity says:

    TruBlu… well put. There’s really no reason for anyone to be against this trade. A 7th round pick can be replaced with a UDFA, and if we lose a 6th, that means it was a success.

    Our TE’s will succeed in this offense, once we have a guy who can deliver the ball to a covered receiver. I’m hoping that’s Flynn and asap, because I personally am really optimistic about these two guys. They strike me as a more impressive tandem than Gronk-Hern, minus the Brady factor. Not taking anything away from those two guys, but I like our TE’s a lot this season. K2 won’t disappoint on the field. He’ll give it the proverbial 110, and his angry style of play is just something you have to like when it’s on your squad.

    I don’t like the comparisons to Rapist and Vick, as those guys are criminals. TO and K2 have big egos, but they always backed it up on the field. You can put together a team of zero ego guys, but you’ll probably be drafting top 5 every year.

    Let’s give K2 a break, welcome him to Seattle and wait and see what happens on the field.

  97. Macabrevity says:

    Speaking of attitude problems… I heard a story about Tom Brady knocking over a chess board after losing. Sounds like an attitude to me!!! I won’t mind one bit if KW2 has ‘that’ type of attitude problem.

  98. Dukeshire says:

    Sadly, that’s not the rap on Winslow.

  99. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Funny how many fans judgement gets clouded after a player becomes a Seahawk. Lol.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=nfl&pollId=139790

  100. NYHawkFan says:

    Now that the Hawks have KW on the team Paul Allen can get back to rockin’ at the Cannes Film Festival. The brouhaha about him possibly being interested in selling the Seahawks hasn’t distracted him!

    http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/seaworthy_at_cannes_Nvk2iSr4py01xkRal79aBK

  101. bbnate420 says:

    GeorgiaHawk, those VOLUNTARY internet polls mean LESS THAN NOTHING! All they reflect is the opinion of the people who CHOSE to vote. ZERO value in extrapolating that to NFL fans as a whole! It suffers from what is known as nonresponse bias. Sadly, many people out there think they are scientific!

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